Pope lectures Pelosi on “natural moral law”; Update: Even MS-NBC can’t spin this

posted at 10:19 am on February 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The Vatican has released a statement after meeting with Nancy Pelosi, apparently mindful of the controversy created by giving an audience to a pro-choice American politician.  Before Pelosi has a chance to characterize the discussion, Benedict apparently wants everyone to know that he saw this as a teaching moment (via The Corner):

Following the General Audience the Holy Father briefly greeted Mrs Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, together with her entourage.

His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church’s consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development.

The consistent teachings, Benedict apparently emphasized, in contradiction to Pelosi’s strange insistence that Catholic opposition to abortion only goes back 50 years:

REP. PELOSI: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator–St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know. The point is, is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child–first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There’s very clear distinctions. This isn’t about abortion on demand, it’s about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and–to–that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god. And so I don’t think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins. As I say, the Catholic Church for centuries has been discussing this, and there are those who’ve decided…

MR. BROKAW: The Catholic Church at the moment feels very strongly that it…

REP. PELOSI: I understand that.

MR. BROKAW: …begins at the point of conception.

REP. PELOSI: I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy. But it is, it is also true that God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions. And we want abortions to be safe, rare, and reduce the number of abortions. That’s why we have this fight in Congress over contraception. My Republican colleagues do not support contraception. If you want to reduce the number of abortions, and we all do, we must–it would behoove you to support family planning and, and contraception, you would think. But that is not the case. So we have to take–you know, we have to handle this as respectfully–this is sacred ground. We have to handle it very respectfully and not politicize it, as it has been–and I’m not saying Rick Warren did, because I don’t think he did, but others will try to.

Message from Benedict: Study more.  And he sent another message as well — that those with higher positions have higher responsibilities not to formally cooperate with the sin of abortion. That message undoubtedly was intended not just for Pelosi but for the entire class of Catholic politicians who support abortion rights, like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Joe Biden, among others.

As for excommunication, that question rightly belongs to Pelosi’s bishop, not the Pope.  Also, it likely would not have arisen in this setting, as the Pope does not give Communion during private audiences; that would only be an issue if Pelosi had attended a Papal Mass.  It seems clear, though, that Benedict XVI does not share Pelosi’s view of Catholic teachings on abortion — and used the visit to make that clear.

Update: Jim at Gateway Pundit wonders whether Pelosi will heed Benedict’s teaching.  I’d say: doubtful.  The teaching has always been plain; it’s the student that has the problem.

Update II: Even MS-NBC can’t spin this one:

Pope Benedict, underscoring the Vatican’s ruling on an issue that divides Americans, told U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday that Catholic politicians and legislators cannot back abortion rights.

Pelosi, a powerful U.S. politician who is Catholic and pro-choice, has been accused by U.S. bishops in the past of misrepresenting Church teachings on abortion.

The headline?  “Pope to Pelosi: Catholics cannot back abortion”.

The Anchoress has a great round-up on this story.


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Comments

Buy her a bible, send her commie scum ass to school, and what does she do?

EAT THE BABY!

csdeven on February 18, 2009 at 10:23 AM

*blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink**blink*
/pelosi

liquidflorian on February 18, 2009 at 10:23 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Ignore your Church’s teachings, ignore your Constitution; just do what feels right. That’s Pelosi.

rbj on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Because killing children is more important than the economy.

opiemuyo on February 18, 2009 at 10:25 AM

all this bank nationalization talk is scary, wish pope would lecture on the evils of that

jp on February 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Of course she won’t listen. Mrs. Pelosi has a higher spiritual authority now. He resides in the White House.

amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

It is because our social matters have gone down the toliet that the walls of this countrys economy are falling down.

Be_Aware on February 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

The sky is falling, and yet you still find time to be posting critical comments? What’s up with that?

/sarc

Tennman on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

On a pro-life-related note, the North Dakota House has passed a measure banning abortion. Waiting to see what their state senate does.

CP on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

According to Porklosi, killing/preventing children will stimulate the economy.
I say excommuncate her and send her straight to hell.

milwife88 on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Ernesto, why are you reading blogs? Shouldn’t you be outside, watching as the sky falls?

Ed Morrissey on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Our good German Shepherd. Thank you, Pope Benedict.

The fact that a majority of American catholics voted for a politician who supports infanticide deeply wounds me. The only thing that comforts me is that our church is world wide. On this subject, I am not proud to be an American. Not at all.

bonnie_ on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Jim at Gateway Pundit wonders whether Pelosi will heed Benedict’s teaching.

It depends whether the Pope meets her demands.

JiangxiDad on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

This is a conservative blog — not the Associated Press or White House press office. There are about 10 economic-related stories on the front page now, a few strictly political topics, and a grab bag of miscellany. It’s not like Ed’s posting or our commenting is going to save the economy.

amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Now that she has been counseled by the Pope, should her Bishop excommunicate her if she continues her pro-baby killing agenda?? I say yes, I say choose life!

kringeesmom on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

opiemuyo on February 18, 2009 at 10:25 AM

She does everything for the children. We must allow the slaughter of babies… for the good of the children. Haven’t you heard?

Won’t you think of the children?

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Ed Morrissey on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Ill just never understand the reasoning behind the way conservatives prioritize social matters. I mean, even you must know that this changes nothing about anything of any substance. Pelosi’s not changing her stance on abortion…all democrats are still baby-killing satanists and jesus still smiles on all conservatives…nothing has changed. That makes this a story…how?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

PELOSI: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition.

What doctors of the church is she taking about?

it is also true that God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions.

She can’t possibly believe this.

My Republican colleagues do not support contraception.

Another lie. Where the hell did she come up with that? Just because Republicans were against her bizarre pork insertion of contraceptives into the stimulus bill, she comes up with that?

Sorry, she’s just a nasty b!tch.

4shoes on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Did Nancy nervously laugh after the Pope told her that?

Mr. Joe on February 18, 2009 at 10:32 AM

If the Pope gets her to change her mind on abortion, would it count towards one of the two miracles required for sainthood consideration?

qestout on February 18, 2009 at 10:32 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

I believe there is one Supreme most perfect being. … I believe He is pleased and delights in the happiness of those He has created; and since without virtue man can have no happiness in this world, I firmly believe He delights to see me virtuous.

I’ve lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, — and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages.

Both of these quotes are from Benjamin Franklin. He knew what too many today do not. The founders got it right, it is our generation who is getting it wrong.

This economy is not surprising to those of us who understand that as long as our children in the womb are sacrificed for convenience and prosperity, God’s blessings will be scarce.

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Nicely done, Pope Benedict. Thank you, sir.

Hey, “Bishop” Robinson. This is how a Man of God acts.

I was going to say the Pope’s message went in one ear and out the other, but it probably got stuck in the Botox.

kingsjester on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Ernesto, why are you reading blogs? Shouldn’t you be outside, watching as the sky falls?

Ed Morrissey on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Heh heh heh!

4shoes on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Is the Pope going to lecture Catholic Priests to stop raping and molesting boys? Catholics are not even Christians to begin with. Martin Luther agrees with this statement

money2 on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Pope lectures Pelosi on “natural moral law”

The Queen of sleaze? The same woman who marched in a parade that also had members from m.a.b.l.a? Good luck with that.

christene on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Preserving life, preserving liberty. Intimately intertwined. To do either, one must do both.

publiuspen on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

And more good news, North Dakota’s House of Reps has passed a bill outlawing abortion:

http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=333726

Obama and his Queen of Mean Nacy P. may have big wins under their gilded belts but the war ain’t over. Things are going to get very hot in very short order.

RandyChandler on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Benedict Rocks. Now let Nancy’s Bishop be emboldened and up to the task!

on fire on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

It’s not like Ed’s posting or our commenting is going to save the economy.

amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Damn you! You ruined it for me. I guess next you will tell me i am not going to get my free house, and my bills paid, or for that matter, the Easter bunny isn’t real.

MDWNJ on February 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Excuse me. You don’t think protecting life is an important issue?

terryannonline on February 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM

So we have to take–you know, we have to handle this as respectfully–this is sacred ground. We have to handle it very respectfully and not politicize it, as it has been…

So abortion is “sacred ground” for Pelosi, but Church Doctrine is not.

No, she could never change her position, even after the Pope admonished her. Liberalism is her religion, not Catholicism. She holds abortion and other destructive, liberal beliefs as holy, and disregards Catholic teaching as irrelevant.

therationalactor on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Hmmmm… interesting…

A personal “teaching moment” from the Pope?

Or… Shot across her brow?

At this point there is NO way she can say she misunderstands… as the Pope HIMSELF talked to her about it… ie… the Head of HER CHURCH.

Will she change? doubtful… but the universe is a very strange place… and the Pope DID TRY.

Kudos to His Papalocity… now just get her Bishop to do the Bell, Book, and Candle thing…

Romeo13 on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

That makes this a story…how?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Because he wanted to note, as a blogger here, an bit of news that interests many here. USA Today, the AFP, the London Telegraph, MSNBC, an even Talking Points Memo saw fit to report on the meeting. Pelosi even sent out a statement on it.

Considering that, it’s probably okay for a Catholic blogger on a conservative blog that has no effect on the markets to expend a post on a conservative issue. This isn’t the IMF or Federal Reserve, my friend. It’s a political commentary blog.

amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

publiuspen on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Except there are times in which preserving liberty means taking life (Iraq) while preserving life means taking liberty (abortion). What of all that?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

The act of protecting the unborn must be above some posters’ pay-grade. Maybe if this country embraced one iota of morality we would have a chance.

Ris4victory on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Good. I knew he would.

misslizzi on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

I still think the Pope should have had her hung by her own entrails.

Now THAT’S change I can believe in.

wccawa on February 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM

I am praying the Holy Spirit cleanses her black and evil heart and she gets the message the Pope articulated.

OmahaConservative on February 18, 2009 at 10:39 AM

money2 on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Oh, cheese.

You too?

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM

LOL!
Perhaps the Bad Shepherd (Benedict) will excommunicate Pelosi?
Doubt it.
The standards aren’t very high in Mother Church anymore.
I mean, he took holocaust-denier and anti-semite Williamson and serial child-rapist Maciel’s (protected by the last Bad Sheperd, John Paul) flock of perverts and pedophiles back in.

strangelet on February 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Except there are times in which preserving liberty means taking life (Iraq) while preserving life means taking liberty (abortion). What of all that?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Uh, are you saying that you agreed with the war in Iraq. I thought you were anti-Iraq war?

terryannonline on February 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Pelosi even sent out a statement on it.
amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Heh! She didn’t even have the nerve to mention or spin it!

Pelosi Statement Following Meeting With Pope Benedict XVI

Last update: 10:09 a.m. EST Feb. 18, 2009
WASHINGTON, Feb 18, 2009 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ — Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued the following statement today following a meeting at the Vatican with his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI:
“It is with great joy that my husband, Paul, and I met with his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI today.
“In our conversation, I had the opportunity to praise the Church’s leadership in fighting poverty, hunger, and global warming, as well as the Holy Father’s dedication to religious freedom and his upcoming trip and message to Israel.
“I was proud to show his Holiness a photograph of my family’s Papal visit in the 1950s, as well as a recent picture of our children and grandchildren.”
SOURCE Office of the Speaker of the House

Brat on February 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM

My sentiments exactly, my dear. Here we go again.

kingsjester on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

What doctors of the church is she taking about?

4shoes on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Augustine and Aquinas.

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Except there are times in which preserving liberty means taking life (Iraq) while preserving life means taking liberty (abortion). What of all that?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

A false comparison thrown out by libtards who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room. You do not win points here for using a standard lib talking point, all you do is demonstrate that your bias.

It is better to keep one’s mouth shut and let others think one a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Woot!!!! Way to go Pope!!!

ExSubNuke on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Where has money2 been? The Holy Father HAS lectured priests on the scandals in the Catholic Church – by the way mostly in the US!!!! The point is, the Catholic Church is not a group one MUST belong to. There are many other faith communities with different ideas Nancy could choose from. As long as she wants to call herself a Catholic, she smacks every REAL Catholic in the face with her statements! By her actions she has excommunicated herself! When she goes up to the Altar to receive Holy Communion, her sin is greater than that of a priest or Eucharistic Minister who gives it to her! There is still such a thing as “our free will”! People have to be held accountable for what they say and do!
I am a Roman Catholic, and I am glad about the way the Holy Father is dealing with this subject!

mkosin on February 18, 2009 at 10:43 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.
ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Good point. Opining about abortion and other social issues is just talk, while posting your opinion of the economy on a blog will instantly produce four million jobs.

Don’t ask me how it works, it just does.

Bishop on February 18, 2009 at 10:43 AM

I wonder why Nancy doesn’t just find a religion that agrees with her stance on abortion. I mean this isn’t like a ” don’t eat meat on Friday’s rule”, the Catholic church is pretty straight forward about what they think of abortion. It would be like me going to a woman’s defense club and saying that i believe women should be beat. It just doesn’t make much sense.

MDWNJ on February 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Im glad what i said was so ignorant that it made correcting me easy…except you didnt.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM

amerpundit on February 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Tks. for the statement. But she did it again! After her meeting with Archbishop Niederauer, she issued a statement specifically mentioning her support on the illegal immigrant and “poverty” issues. In my mind,it was a veiled threat to use her political clout to work against positions the church favors. Here, imo, she does it again , by making it clear that they agree on global warming, etc, and that the Pope has more to gain by having her as an ally than an enemy. Just my take on it.

WASHINGTON, Feb 18, 2009 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ — Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued the following statement today following a meeting at the Vatican with his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI:

“It is with great joy that my husband, Paul, and I met with his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI today.
“In our conversation, I had the opportunity to praise the Church’s leadership in fighting poverty, hunger, and global warming, as well as the Holy Father’s dedication to religious freedom and his upcoming trip and message to Israel.
“I was proud to show his Holiness a photograph of my family’s Papal visit in the 1950s, as well as a recent picture of our children and grandchildren.”
SOURCE Office of the Speaker of the House

JiangxiDad on February 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM

all democrats are still baby-killing satanists and jesus still smiles on all conservatives…nothing has changed. That makes this a story…how?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Kind of selective in that application, aren’t you ernesto?

Except there are times in which preserving liberty means taking life (Iraq) while preserving life means taking liberty (abortion). What of all that?

Reconsider your premises. When does “preserving life mean taking liberty” in the form of abortion?

As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. This is simply not true.

Jaibones on February 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Trolls shalt not comment on a Catholic thread without mentioning molestation.

Brat on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

terryannonline on February 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM

I didnt feel that granting Iraq its freedom was the best use of American power, but I wont act like Iraqi’s arent free now…that would be the ignorant liberal thing to do.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Hmm… I understand that John Adams, Second President of the U.S., said:

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

I suppose we, as a Nation, are now neither. Therefore, it is now incumbent upon the few who are to influence the many who are not in order to avoid that which could be and return the Nation to what it once was.

That make sense?

BNCurtis on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Yeah Pope. While she may not be excommunicated maybe we can at least hope for her to shut her flapping mouth about Catholic positions she obviously doesn’t understand.

katiejane on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

NOW will a Priest refuse her Communion?

PappaMac on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

There was a time when ordinary Catholics would defer to the Pope.

Then a bunch of know-it-alls said it was payback time to punish the Church for all her faults, so they ransacked our altars and murdered our clerics.

Now folks like Nancy Pelosi can proudly say, she has a direct relationship with Jesus Christ, and no middle-man is required.

And 40 million babies have been slaughtered.

Reformation?

jeff_from_mpls on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

OT

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Seriously, ernesto, your hero in the WH and his enablers in Congress are doing their darnedest to tank the economy in rapid-fire time.

onlineanalyst on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Is the Pope going to lecture Catholic Priests to stop raping and molesting boys? Catholics are not even Christians to begin with. Martin Luther agrees with this statement

money2 on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Catholics made Christianity the dominant Western religion over the course of centuries, long before Luther was born. While Luther was critical of Catholics he seemed even less happy about Jews.

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM

I still think the Pope should have had her hung by her own entrails.
Now THAT’S change I can believe in.
wccawa on February 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Hee hee hee. The popester rolls and Iron Maiden into the room, parks it next to Pelosi and then pointedly asks about her stance toward abortion.

Bishop on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Pelosi did not hear a word. On a positive note if being pro life meant more votes she would ban abortion in a heart beat just as Al Gore cast aside being pro life when he ran for the Senate.

patrick neid on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Ed, you linked to Rocco? I would have just quoted the Vatican Information Service. ;)

Vatican Watcher on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Smacked down by the Pope. Gotta love it!

tnmama on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM

MDWNJ on February 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM

She could always join The Episcopal Church, or Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. They are both Sacramental and liturgical and allow all manner of sinful behavior including abortion.

OmahaConservative on February 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Nancy needs to remember: Benedict won that election for Pope.

flyoverland on February 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM

And 40 million babies have been slaughtered.

jeff_from_mpls on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Are they in heaven?

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Ed Morrissey on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Ill just never understand the reasoning behind the way conservatives prioritize social matters. I mean, even you must know that this changes nothing about anything of any substance. Pelosi’s not changing her stance on abortion…all democrats are still baby-killing satanists and jesus still smiles on all conservatives…nothing has changed. That makes this a story…how?

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Faith is not meant to be compartmentalized, which is what these politicians do, but to be lived wholistically. Our faith informs our decisions. She claims to be a Catholic, yet rejects its teachings. The Pope rightly should correct and instruct Pelosi and others like her.

If you don’t have a faith in a Higher Being then of course you wouldn’t understand. Liberals like yourself, however, do have a belief system–secular humanism–one you never acknowledge.

conservative pilgrim on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Pelosi thought she was going to palm off her meeting with him to imply his support, her Catholic authenticity or something, but…

Bwahahahaha!

Bravo, Pope!

petefrt on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

We can always count on one thing, DEADalus, will come to a thread about abortion to comment. And his comments will always be the same.

I know you know, yet you keep harping on it, trying to confuse those who aren’t aware of why you mention Agustine and Aquinas, so for them I will clarify.

These men did not question that the taking of a life was wrong. They did not question the Church’s teaching that acquired abortion was, is and always will be a sin. Their question was when did God give a soul to the unborn child?

I would think that your side would have enough “righteous” arguments that you wouldn’t need to twist, or spin them in such a way. Or is that you know that there is nothing righteous about abortion?

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Are they in heaven?

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Yes

Be_Aware on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Is the Pope going to lecture Catholic Priests to stop raping and molesting boys? Catholics are not even Christians to begin with. Martin Luther agrees with this statement

money2 on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

No, he’s too busy plotting secret financial deals and more crimes.

Zip it clown.

jeff_from_mpls on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Wonder what the Pope had to say about the Homosexual ‘Folsom Street Fair’ held in Nancy’s district?

Wade on February 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM

“The Corner” also included this imaginary dialogue that Pelosi must have had with Pope Benedicat XVI. The amusing piece highlights Pelosi’s ignorance and pride.

onlineanalyst on February 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM

If Pelosi embraced the Church’s teaching on abortion, she’d lose her seat in Congress. Her constituents would vote her out in a heartbeat. There goes her power.

She won’t change.

She really ought to think of Cardinal Wosley who as he was dying said: “If I had served my God as diligently as I did my king, He would not have given me over in my grey hairs.”

Ellen on February 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM

God could come down and tell her that life begins at conception and she would still think that killing babies is okay.

I think the Pope should have been a little harder on her….

vitaatcaritas on February 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Brat on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Oooooooh, I had totally forgotten the 11th Commandment.

Thanks for reminding me. :-)

kingsjester on February 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Indeed.

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM

I didnt feel that granting Iraq its freedom was the best use of American power, but I wont act like Iraqi’s arent free now…that would be the ignorant liberal thing to do.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Let me ask my question since you didn’t seem get the jest of it. Do you think the Iraq war was moral or immoral? Because in you comment you admit that people are freer but that’s not the same as admitting it was a moral and just war.

terryannonline on February 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Their question was when did God give a soul to the unborn child?

I would think that your side would have enough “righteous” arguments that you wouldn’t need to twist, or spin them in such a way. Or is that you know that there is nothing righteous about abortion?

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

TO take the point further, it’s interesting that superficial philosophers dismiss Aquinas because he believed in the science of his time, apparently suggesting that errors of scientific fact when giving examples of philosophical principles somehow invalidate the entire argument.

Similarly, Aquinas was simply making a scientific statement. He had no idea how the human embryo develops.

But I guarantee you he would have said, if it is a human life, you must not murder it.

This statement is not up for debate. Sadly, the democrat party finds it controversial.

jeff_from_mpls on February 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Leave ernesto alone, folks. He’s obviously incapable of thinking about more than one issue at a time.

psrch on February 18, 2009 at 10:54 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

That’s an interesting perspective. You just let me know when the economy is bad enough to make it OK for me to kill you and take your stuff, ok?

hawksruleva on February 18, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Pelosi to Pope: I won.

artist on February 18, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Pelosi and her “Catholic in name only” cohorts in crime, Kennedy and Kerry, are a profound embarrassment to faithful magisterium respecting Roman Catholics everywhere. To hear her tape again, giving false witness to Roman Catholic belief makes my stomach turn.

We should send her a copy of the Catechism. Beliefs are detailed in such a basic and elementary way that even Nancy, if she bothered herself to just read it, would have her confusion cleared. Unless, of course, hers is instead a deliberate obfuscation.

If Pelosi persists in her error, she really should just publicly change her religion. No one is forced to stay in the Catholic church. There are many lovely religions who share her belief system. If she is so high on “choice,” then Nancy should just cowboy the heck up, and choose to leave.

marybel on February 18, 2009 at 10:56 AM

And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator–St. Augustine said at three months.

So, even if Saint Augustine really said this, how does she justify second- and third-trimester abortions?

This isn’t about abortion on demand, it’s about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and–to–that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god.

“Her” God? There is only one God, the same God for every person on earth. Pelosi might have invented “her” own god, but she might have trouble with the real God later on.

And so I don’t think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins.

It’s above her pay grade, but not above that of Benedict XVI.

Steve Z on February 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM

I would think that your side would have enough “righteous” arguments that you wouldn’t need to twist, or spin them in such a way. Or is that you know that there is nothing righteous about abortion?

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Not sure what side you are thinking of. My point on abortion is that the church doctors did struggle for centuries with the question of when God gave a soul to a fetus. That doesn’t create wiggle room today, and Pelosi is wrong to think so. However, to say that the church has been consistent for two thousand years on the nature what occurs in early-term abortions is a misreading of history.

You are incorrect to extrapolate that I believe the historical viewpoints of Aquinas or Augustine have a bearing on a Catholic politician’s religious obligations in 2009.

dedalus on February 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Faith is not meant to be compartmentalized, which is what these politicians do, but to be lived wholistically. Our faith informs our decisions. She claims to be a Catholic, yet rejects its teachings. The Pope rightly should correct and instruct Pelosi and others like her.

If you don’t have a faith in a Higher Being then of course you wouldn’t understand. Liberals like yourself, however, do have a belief system–secular humanism–one you never acknowledge.

conservative pilgrim on February 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Very well put. You deserve a gold star for today. Thanks for commenting.

BuckeyeSam on February 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM

This economy is not surprising to those of us who understand that as long as our children in the womb are sacrificed for convenience and prosperity, God’s blessings will be scarce.

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Thank you for the Franklin quotes and for posting that.

I’d like to add that a nation that valued unborn children would never have elected a man like Obama who actively fought against giving medical help to babies who survived botched abortions and were born alive.

INC on February 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Pelosi is a despicable Woman. She has no morals what so ever. As this one Bumper Sticker said, “A Good Catholic cannot have both. Abortion is Murder. Pelosi won’t learn from what the Pope told her. She could care less. She will twist his words. Nancy, please go away. Far Far Away!

sheebe on February 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Im glad what i said was so ignorant that it made correcting me easy…except you didnt.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Reread it. False comparison. Sorry, should have spelled it out. There is a difference between slaughtering unborn babies and war that results in the death of innocents. War is never a good thing but may have result in good i.e. regarding peace and freedoms. Abortion on the other hand is an intrinsic evil from which there is nothing good to be gained.

In war, innocents die but these deaths are not desired. In a n abortion the desire is that an innocent will die.

Jvette on February 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Pelosi to Pope: I won.

artist on February 18, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Pope to Pelosi: In the end, God’s election is the only one that counts. And you’re campaiging for losing side.

BuckeyeSam on February 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

How bad does the economy need to be before social matters take a back seat? Seriously, the walls are coming down around us and you’ve still got time to post on Pelosi and abortion.

ernesto on February 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Our entire life and existence are “social matters” . . . everything else is sustenance.

rplat on February 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

RandyChandler on February 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM

This is great…but how long until the pro-choice groups start protesting?

becki51758 on February 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Dip her in a vat of holy water pleeeese.

Fuquay Steve on February 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

And for further connection to politics and the economy, I want to mention a post from Manly Rash. He has this quote from LifeNews:

Two pro-abortion Republican groups have announced a newly-formed partnership designed to weaken the long-standing pro-life platform the GOP maintains. The Republican Majority for Choice and the WISH List (Women in the Senate and House) hope to team up to drag the party to the left.

He then goes on to say:

Unfortunately, it is a matter of historical fact that pro-abortion candidates, regardless of their political affiliation, are almost always liberal or “moderate” (ie, liberal-lite) on every other hot button issue. There are notable exceptions – Barry Goldwater, for instance – but these are as rare as a Michael Moore appearance at a Jenny Craig convention.

As proof, direct your attention to the Advisory Committee of the Republican Majority for Choice. It reads like a Who’s Who of the RINO world. Here are some notable names – many of which you will recognize:

Honorable Lincoln Chafee (RI)
Senator Susan Collins (ME)
Representative Rodney Frelinghuysen (NJ)
Governor Linda Lingle (HI)
Honorable George E. Pataki (NY)
Governor M. Jodi Rell (CT)
Representative Christopher Shays (CT)
Senator Olympia Snowe (ME)
Senator Arlen Specter (PA)

Next up is the WISH List. And which notable RINOs can be found on their Advisory Board?

Representative Mary Bono Mack
Senator Susan Collins
Governor Linda Lingle
Senator Lisa Murkowski
Honorable Marge Roukema
Senator Olympia Snowe
Honorable William F. Weld
Honorable Christine Todd Whitman

INC on February 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Bitch-Slap !

=

She’s a bitch and just got slapped

Mark Garnett on February 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Message from Benedict: Study more.

I wish I could speak to Nanny Pelosi.

Message from jgapinoy: Repent.

jgapinoy on February 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Dip her in a vat of holy water pleeeese.

Fuquay Steve on February 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

We are classier than to suggest the death of a member of Congress!

carbon_footprint on February 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Dip her in a vat of holy water pleeeese.

Fuquay Steve on February 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

It just may boil and turn to steam.

OmahaConservative on February 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM