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California Republicans oust Senate leader, dig in

posted at 9:37 am on February 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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The game of chicken in Sacramento just claimed its first victim, one that has to send a chill down Democratic spines.  Republicans in the state Senate ousted their leader, the man who crafted a deal with Democrats to resolve the budget standoff with massive tax increases as part of the package.  The GOP has apparently accelerated their car, and the Democrats will have to decide whether to swerve or crash:

A state budget deal to close a $41 billion shortfall has been put further into question early this morning after Senate Republicans ousted their leader who had helped negotiate the long-awaited plan with other top lawmakers in California.

The unusual action occurred as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Democratic lawmakers tried for a fourth night in a row to persuade at least one more Republican senator to cast the deciding vote on the budget, a move officials said is necessary for the state to avoid insolvency.

Speaking to reporters outside his office, the ousted Minority Leader Dave Cogdill, R-Modesto, said, “It’s a shame it ended like this.”

Cogdill was one of the four legislative leaders who negotiated the emergency budget deal with the governor. Their compromise budget package, reached after three months of negotiations, contained nearly $16 billion in program cuts, $11 billion in borrowing and $14.4 billion in tax increases. The most contentious debate has been over the proposed tax hikes.

Republicans selected Sen. Dennis Hollingsworth, R-Murrieta (Riverside County) as their new Minority leader. Hollingsworth is part of the conservative wing of the Senate Republican caucus and he has been adamantly against raising any taxes.

I’d call that a statement.  It certainly sends a message to party leadership that the California GOP will not willingly follow along with more tax increases in a state that already has become one of the worst for tax burdens in the nation.  California did not get into its financial crisis through low taxes, and higher taxes won’t provide anything more than a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.

The budget needs more than just $16 billion in cuts.  California needs a real austerity program, one that sheds government workers and government programs.  The Golden State also needs to stop borrowing money, which comes from the massive spending. How massive?  The governor’s office claims that they have kept spending level at $105 billion per year, but even at that rate, they spend more than 20 times what Minnesota does while only having about six times the population.  (And we spend too much as well; we’re facing a $7 billion biennial budget deficit at the moment.)

Until the legislature gets serious about budget cuts, higher taxes only provide a junkie’s fix to addiction.  The Republicans just signaled a cold-turkey approach, and they’re willing to throw their own leadership under the bus to get it.  They look serious about fixing the real problems.  Will the Democrats get serious, too, or go tharn in the headlights?


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DaveO on February 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Thanks for posting that analysis. I almost moved to the Twin Cities several years ago, so I researched MN then. I remember at the time thinking that it was a pretty tax and spend, big government place, kind of like Vermont.

I think folks should be circumspect about comparing spending across states anyway. There are so many variables, including geography, natural resources, and climate, not to mention population distribution, industries, age of infrastructure and whatnot. Depending on when a state experienced its growth spurt, its infrastructure may either be very old or relatively young. Minnesota has snow, but it’s flat, has no coastline, no wildfires, and no earthquakes. In short, it’s apples (or maybe a huge cherry in MN’s case) and oranges.

Don’t get me wrong — the state of California over-regulates, over-spends, and over-taxes, but using Minnesota’s numbers to bolster that argument is not very compelling.

California needs to address its illegal immigrant problem and tap its offshore energy resources.

Y-not on February 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Good

What part of (you cant borrow any more money) to give to all the illegals you let in

DONT you understand..

This is now the time to make the hard choices..
and the phony republicans are all caving in..
So thow then out..

jcila on February 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM

How’s that Kaine working out for you. He’s the one that had the budget surplus and still was trying to raise taxes. So it’s not really about the economy with these Democrats (and Arnold): Budget defecit? Raise taxes! Budget surplus? Raise taxes!

Abby Adams on February 18, 2009 at 9:48 AM

I missed this post on the first run-through. Kaine has the audacity (of hope?) to say that being chair of the DNC will not affect his job of governor. Huh? Kaine is barely human, being of the sub-species Homo sapiens politicus.

His wife is the daughter of a former governor. In my opinion, she is very physically unnatractive. Kaine has shown that he will do anything to further his own political aspirations.

riverrat in va

riverrat10k on February 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

See that! Action is what was called for, and action is what CONSERVATIVES provided. Hurras!

Now is the time to kick out the RINO’s in Washington, GOP Senators!

DannoJyd on February 18, 2009 at 1:57 PM

I am encourged to hear the CA GOP finally found the “stones” to stand up to those who are attempting to destroy the State, and in turn this Country. I am a native Californian who left in the early 70’s when I went into the Army. I still have a lot of family in NorCal, who are for the most part very conservative. I am concerned for their welfare if this sorry excuse of a tax bill goes through. CA is expensive enough as it is without all of the new increases.

I now live in CO and our poor excuse of a governor is trying to do the same thing here with the help of the democraptic majority that is occurring in CA. It appears he is going to get pushed through a $32 increase on all registrations for this year and $41 for next year. The CO citizens HAVE to vote on a tax increase, but this increase is being called a “fee”, so we have no say in it, as our elected officials no longer listen to us.

Nuts4koi on February 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM

The CO citizens HAVE to vote on a tax increase, but this increase is being called a “fee”, so we have no say in it, as our elected officials no longer listen to us.

They tried that same crap here in CA on an earlier budget. Isn’t that what the Boston Tea Party was all about? Taxation without Representation? Least that’s how that song went on Saturday mornings…

oddjob1138 on February 18, 2009 at 2:07 PM

While you may be correct in many ways with this statement angry, I might remind you that if you ever looked at both Bush election results, (county by county), this state was dominated by Conservatives. The “moonbats” unfortunately reside in the Bay Area and LA which make up the majority population. This doesn’t make them any more intelligent—-just massive idiots in my opinion.

Rovin on February 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM

This is true here in VA and all over the country. The urban areas elected Kaine as governor and Obama as President. Individual counties outside the urbanized areas voted Repbublican by a large majority. *Sigh* Rural folks work, urban folks watch propaganda on TV.

riverrat10k on February 18, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Nuts4koi on February 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Arnie is trying to use the “FEE” method here also to try and bypass tax increases.

Along with that they want to increase the tax on gasoline by 12 cents, and I have heard some say that they are looking into the tax per mile, and the increase in vehicle registration. Now my 72 truck cost presently $252 a year to register, gets 6.5 miles to the gallon. My 87 truck cost $152 a year to register and gets 7.5 miles to the gallon. Both trucks average 82 miles a day seven days a week. Sure hope the republicans can get this mess straightened out, as there is no way I can pass this on to my clients who are already hurting.

N4646W on February 18, 2009 at 2:26 PM

Okay… what would Sarah Palin do?

HotAirJosef on February 18, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Okay… what would Sarah Palin do?

HotAirJosef on February 18, 2009 at 2:33 PM

If she were smart, she would do 3 things. First, they should start getting their moneys worth out of their security people by deporting as many illegal aliens as they could find. This would dramatically cut spending for education, hospitals, prisons, housing, automobile insurance, drug enforcement, gang squads, etc.

Second, they should lay off 30 thousand non essential workers that collectively do the work of about 500 private sector workers. Third, eliminate all the tax breaks for anyone having anything to do with hollywood.

saiga on February 18, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Illinois also used the fee propaganda and got increases…they do not stop increasing either. Also, we just got word that Illinois is trying to pass legislation that gunowners must have million dollar insurance policy on any gun that you own. Of course to protect the innocent! hahaha Since they can’t take them away, they are gettin inventive

Illinois Grandma on February 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM

HAH! That’s MY state Senator. That’s why I love Murrieta! It’s my conservative oasis in a desert of liberalism!!!

“Chill up Democrats spines”??? This should send a CHILL up ALL Republicans spines, those 3 lousy RINO porkers especially! If CA Republicans will kick you out of the Party, it’s just a matter of time!
Love it!

Sultry Beauty on February 18, 2009 at 3:52 PM

The budget needs more than just $16 billion in cuts. California needs a real austerity program, one that sheds government workers and government programs.

Would you care to outline exactly which spending programs should be cut? It’s easy to talk about cutting spending- much harder to identify what can go.

California has a massive illegal immigrant population that allows the rest of the country to enjoy low agricultural prices. But only the state has to pay the bill.

Until the legislature gets serious about budget cuts, higher taxes only provide a junkie’s fix to addiction. The Republicans just signaled a cold-turkey approach, and they’re willing to throw their own leadership under the bus to get it.

It the end result is insolvency, I’m not sure that anyone wins.

At a federal level, Republicans used a similar tactic, claiming that lower taxes were the end-all fix, leading to an additional $4 trillion in federal debt. Now that the nation faces near economic catastrophe, that strategy was clearly a huge mistake. The US simply can’t engage in the level of stimulus spending that other nations, such as Russia, China, and Singapore can implement. The consequences of our low tax policy over the last 8 years could be devastating.

bayam on February 18, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Okay… what would Sarah Palin do?

HotAirJosef on February 18, 2009 at 2:33 PM

SPANK THEM! And then make them go to their corners. Then they’d have to hug and make up and promise to be friends and nice to each other.

It might even work.

Sapwolf on February 18, 2009 at 4:16 PM

This is why it is so important that CA does not get bailed out with Federal pork. That would just reenforce all the bad selfish behavior.

That’s why Ah-nold should be kicked out of the party. Sarah should just go to the media and formally call him the girlie-man he is for asking for freebies from the Feds.

Heck, Sarah should just swipe one his Hummers and peel out all over the grounds of the governator’s house putting the biggest cuts in the lawn you ever seen, then park it on his front porch and call him out and kick his nuts in front of Maria. Then grab Piper’s hand and end her home-school lesson on how to deal with beta-males when people need real help.

Sapwolf on February 18, 2009 at 4:20 PM

Would you care to outline exactly which spending programs should be cut? It’s easy to talk about cutting spending- much harder to identify what can go.
bayam on February 18, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Off the top of my head I’d say that the state could save some money if it rolled back some of the excessive regulation. I’ve been here (SoCal) a couple of years now (after having lived many places across the East, Midwest, and South) and I am still taken aback by how much nanny state stuff there is out here. One example are the “warning labels” posted at every apartment building, hotel, etc that warn people that cigarettes may have been smoked in that building at one time. That sort of thing requires a bureaucratic infrastructure to enforce and that costs money.

Subsidizing illegal aliens’ tuition costs at state universities by allowing them to pay the same as California residents is another.

Y-not on February 18, 2009 at 4:35 PM

You people are kidding yourselves, all the GOP is doing is ensuring they don’t get elected in California for 20 years.

cyclosarin on February 18, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Sen. Hollingsworth is the brother-in-law of a friend of ours back in San Bernardino. He’s a Conservative’s Conservative, that’s for sure. This is quite a statement from the Republicans.

As to cyclosarin’s conclusion, given demographic trends I think the GOP was already destined not to be in charge in CA for 20 years or more. (We left three years ago and I’m glad I got my money and property out of the state.) This may ensure it, but when the state goes under at least the rest of the world will have another clear object lesson in the failure of centralized government planning.

wordsson on February 18, 2009 at 4:51 PM

Proud to be a California resident today. These two wonderful citizens need to be thanked. They got the idea (of replacing the leadership) from a conservative staffer from Sacramento, and really propagated it.

Scroll down to see Arnold’s head spin, really.

Entelechy on February 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Lt. Gov Garamendi: “I’ve been listening to what you had to say about Republicans in the Senate and Congress, we have an infection here and it’s a Republican infection that’s really spreading across this nation. Just what do they propose to do? Shut everything down? They did that with Newt Gingrich. They seem to want to do that in California and we’re saying no way. no how. We’re gonna build, we’re going to go with Obama.”

Newt!

getalife on February 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM

You people are kidding yourselves, all the GOP is doing is ensuring they don’t get elected in California for 20 years.

By Whom? This is actually the perfect setup. Frankly I hope the Dems push the GOP aside and continue without fiscal discipline. The final curtain will turn California into a larger version of Detroit, with the riots of 1992 thrown in and Liberalism/socialism seen as the cause. Manufacturing is leaving as fast as possible and without that base, there will be little chance of recovery. Without manufacturing, you end up with a state of lawyers, government workers, welfare recipients, farmers and illegals.

“We must give the people the spending and programs they want”. GO ARNOLD!

GunRunner on February 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Forward to Ruth Marcus, it will make an interesting postscrip to her analysis of the congressional Republicans.

pgrossjr on February 18, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Mark Garnett on February 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM

You make a great point. Now if we could get some leaders who can go out there on the national stage and sell this we would have a chance at stopping this runaway train.

Conservative run states = healthy
Liberal run states = on life support (with massive transfusions from healthy states)

RadioFreeUSA on February 18, 2009 at 9:58 AM

Simple Campaign Poster:

California – Democrat – Bankrupt
New York – Democrat – Bankrupt
New Jersey – Democrat – Bankrupt
Michigan – Democrat – Bankrupt

Vote Republican

Jimmy Doolittle on February 18, 2009 at 6:06 PM

The other day I was telling someone that there is some movement in Oregon to tax beer by 1900%. The response was that the idea sounded good because state needed to make the money to pay bills, IOUs, etc.

It is difficult to tell these sorry folks that government is NOT in the business to make money. I am glad the CA Republicans are standing up to the tactics thrown at them. If this does not stop there, then it is very likely that other states (especially the nanny states) will follow likewise and we will not see any end to the reach the government will have in the future. I am afraid that even if a solid conservative will get elected in these states in the next election cycle, they will have a hell of time to undo what will come from these tax increases.

I wish the CA Republicans great luck in holding their own.

OneConservative on February 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Lt. Gov Garamendi: “I’ve been listening to what you had to say about Republicans in the Senate and Congress, we have an infection here and it’s a Republican infection that’s really spreading across this nation. Just what do they propose to do? Shut everything down? They did that with Newt Gingrich. They seem to want to do that in California and we’re saying no way. no how. We’re gonna build, we’re going to go with Obama.”

Newt!

getalife on February 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Remember, liberalism is a mental disorder

Nuts4koi on February 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

They seem to want to do that in California and we’re saying no way. no how. We’re gonna build, we’re going to go with Obama.”

getalife on February 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM

In just a few years CA has doubled its expenses. I live here and I know well what is going on.

You go get a life. I’m sick and tired of working hard and paying way too much for items completely out of my control.

Entelechy on February 18, 2009 at 6:42 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090218/ts_nm/us_water_california

The DWP? What a corrupt department in L.A.! That’s where Tony Villar launders all of his dirty money…

RealDemocrat on February 18, 2009 at 6:54 PM

Now we need to oust the other knuckleheads…

RealDemocrat on February 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Would you care to outline exactly which spending programs should be cut? It’s easy to talk about cutting spending- much harder to identify what can go.
bayam on February 18, 2009 at 4:14 PM

OK

Here’s a simple example:
When you go boating in California lakes, you get entrance fees at the boat ramp entrance (with an attendant), rules that say you must be off the lake at sunset, and of course the Boat Police running around the lake.

When I go boating up in Idaho (which I adore, and will be moving my business to, as soon as I can, from L.A. County), I pull up, launch my boat, and stay for as long as I want, with maybe one Boat Police boat on the lake.

Others:
1) UC system salaries
2) teachers union – pensions
3) SEIU union – pensions
4) police and fire unions – pensions
5) All CA regs that are different from Fed regs
6) All advisory committees
7) The global warming wasted spending
8) funding for illegals

The legislature isn’t even trying to reduce spending.

Jimmy Doolittle on February 18, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Some times a little encouragement can go a long way. Now if we can survive till 2010, and on this the jury is still out.

jainphx on February 18, 2009 at 7:13 PM

As a 7th generation Californian, I’m very happy that the Repubs are getting it together. But, it’s time for some truth serum to our residents.

For all the scolding the Republicans have taken, this state truly has a problem with Democrats run amok. If you need proof, check out Joe Simitian. He ask voters to create some of the dumbest laws on the books.

Our biggest problems are all those propositions that voters have said “yes” to. We have one that guarantees something like 50% of the whole budget to schools. Californians have consistently voted for ridiculous spending bonds and restrictions with nary a thought to the outcome.

The politicians have been silent. They gather up the money and the power and run with it. They’ve stuffed the mess into a closet, secretly hoping that no one would catch.

And, then when times were good, they put in more programs and regulation and taxes to fund, never once considering that the bills would come due. When we were raking in the money, I couldn’t figure out why they didn’t put in a savings account like NORMAL people do. Oh, right, politicians don’t function like NORMAL people do.

If this starts a return to conservatism in this state then hallelujah! We grew Reagan. It’s time to grow another awesome Conservative.

norcalgal on February 18, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Michigan – Democrat – Bankrupt
Ohio – Democrat – Solvent

Defending against economic threats foreign and domestic.

FIFY.

sethstorm on February 18, 2009 at 7:47 PM

If this starts a return to conservatism in this state then hallelujah! We grew Reagan. It’s time to grow another awesome Conservative.

norcalgal on February 18, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Unfortunately we know how to stop that kind, cold.

sethstorm on February 18, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Rob Reiner has $5 billion of Californians money in an account they don’t know what to do with. Get that money first!

RealDemocrat on February 18, 2009 at 7:49 PM

What about Kansas?

RealDemocrat on February 18, 2009 at 7:50 PM

Michigan – Democrat – Bankrupt
Ohio – Democrat – Solvent

Defending against economic threats foreign and domestic.

FIFY.

sethstorm on February 18, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Yeah, but you ruined my symmetry.

Jimmy Doolittle on February 18, 2009 at 7:56 PM

California’s money problems stem from liberalism run amok. Take a close, hard look at California because this is where we will be in a few years.

Sxyrzrbck on February 18, 2009 at 8:24 PM

I have met Dennis Hollingsworth, volunteered for his campaigns, distributed his material door-to-door, and given him my vote when I still lived in California. His leadership on this and other issues reassures me that there are still good men in politics, damn few of them, but there are still some there.

thmsmgnm on February 18, 2009 at 9:39 PM

A state budget deal to close a $41 billion shortfall has been put further into question early this morning after Senate Republicans ousted their leader who had helped negotiate the long-awaited plan with other top lawmakers in California.

This is the REDDEST of the Red Meat!!!!

Yeah!

seanrobins on February 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM

California’s money problems stem from liberalism run amok. Take a close, hard look at California because this is where we will be in a few years.

Oh my GOD!

Don’t tell me that Obama is going to appoint Arnold as the next Budget Director??????

seanrobins on February 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM

I was a life-long California native until five years ago, when my husband and I saw the writing on the wall, sold our home, and laid skid-marks on the state border getting out of there. But I’ve got to say I’m very proud of what the legislative Republicans are doing right now: Hang tough, you all. Keep up the good fight!

StarLady on February 18, 2009 at 11:19 PM

juanito on February 18, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Juanito, you should run in 2010.

thecountofincognito on February 18, 2009 at 11:56 PM

You people are kidding yourselves, all the GOP is doing is ensuring they don’t get elected in California for 20 years.

cyclosarin on February 18, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Wrong. The people of CA are angry at paying high taxes. Lawmakers want to raise the price of car tags to $800/year, add 50cents gas tax, etc. Yet CA spends $$Billions on illegals.

I heart California GOP!!!!!

TN Mom on February 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Lt. Gov Garamendi: “I’ve been listening to what you had to say about Republicans in the Senate and Congress, we have an infection here and it’s a Republican infection that’s really spreading across this nation. Just what do they propose to do? Shut everything down? They did that with Newt Gingrich. They seem to want to do that in California and we’re saying no way. no how. We’re gonna build, we’re going to go with Obama.”

Newt!

getalife on February 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM

John Garamendi is a tool. He’s the Democrat’s Richard Nixon. All the ambition (what’s left that he hasn’t run for?) without the intelligence.

juanito on February 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM

I don’t suppose many know this, but the vast majority of California’s budget goes straight to the great gaping chasm known as education. The rest, comprises a relatively small portion of the whole.

CA could lay off state workers left and right and STILL barely make a dent in the budget. There’s fat to be cut there, but not nearly what you’d think. Paying for services for illegals and crappy, “education” that blows the wad on sports and overpriced facilities are more to blame than state workers.

TheUnrepentantGeek on February 19, 2009 at 2:25 AM

$7 billion, times 6, equals $42 billion. Does this make Minnesota worst than California?

lando034 on February 19, 2009 at 2:42 AM

IF CONSERVATIVES WENT TO THE PEOPLE WITH THE FOLLOWING SIMPLE MESSAGE WE COULD TAKE BACK STATE HOUSES AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WITHIN TWO ELECTION CYCLES:

“In order to reduce YOUR tax burden, balance YOUR State / Federal budget, increase YOUR employment opertunities the following step must be taken:

1) Rapid Deportation of Illegals, removal from any aid programs including free schooling and health care… No food stamps, not services period for Illegals…

2) Business Tax rate of 10% or less, ZERO Capital gains tax… Tax credits for any new equipment purchases, tax credits for providing health care for employees…

3) End to restrictions on off shore oil drilling… Oil revenues shared with States. Only American companies and equipment can be used, all proceeds must be used within the USA…

4) End of cafe fuel standards; ONE gasoline formulation for the entire Nation. End of enviro regualtions that prevent new refineries and nuclear plants; 40 new nuclear plants to be fast tracked and BUILT opperational within 4 years followed by 40 more during the next four years… Fast tracked new refineries and coal fired plants…

5) End of Unions for State Workers and Federal Employees along with HUGE CUTS in the number of employees and benifits…

6) Real CUTS in ALL welfare programs, revitialized plan that passed under Clinton “Welfare to Work” that has been a HUGE sucess story… Elimination of redundant social programs… The end of ANY public moneys to ACORN or any other such group…

7) HUGE CUTS in ALL departments except infrastructure…

8) School “choice” vouchers and compitition, end of National control, end of NEA… Returning schools to LOCAL control of Parents and Teachers… Reduction of administrations costs and facilities for non-teachers…

9) Faith based programs to provide additional assistance to needy, HAND UP’s NOT HAND OUT’s!

10) End of State / Fed. funds for abortion… Abortion IS A STATES ISSUE to be voted on by each State, not Federaly Mandated… States Rights renewed…

11) Border Fence and security increases, Immigration raids increases with deportation of ALL incarcerated illegals… Gang Task Forces… E-Verify for employers… Cut off ALL moneies (tax money) to ANY “Sanctuary City”…

12) Protection of Marriage legislation, English as the Official Language legislation…

13) Increased Defense Spending, including a Missle Shield, pay and benifit increeeses for Military families… Vastly improved health care for Military.

Then show this:

Simple Campaign Poster:

California – Democrat – Bankrupt
New York – Democrat – Bankrupt
New Jersey – Democrat – Bankrupt
Michigan – Democrat – Bankrupt

Vote Republican

**** Feel free to add to the list of the new “Contract with America”!

Mark Garnett on February 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM

Simple Campaign Poster:

California – Democrat – Bankrupt
New York – Democrat – Bankrupt
New Jersey – Democrat – Bankrupt
Michigan – Democrat – Bankrupt
Ohio – beholden to both – Solvent

Soldiering on despite a generation of attacks from Benedict Arnold Republicans.

That’s how I’d address that poster.

(ideas 1-13)
Mark Garnett on February 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM

While some of those ideas are fine, there would have to be some sort of construct that discourages unions, the right way. That is, retain a morale inconsistent with the conditions that create a labor union.

I’m fine with increased defense spending / research, having border control be enforceable(where Ramos and Compean would be able to have used deadly force), a low business tax rate (I’d rather cut to the chase for a <1% rate), removal of environmentalist regulations and for offshore drilling. I just happen to be somewhere that has been on the wrong side of trade for a long while.

Perhaps if you allowed a climate where business could do the right thing as the profitable thing, you wouldn’t have as much crossover to the left.

sethstorm on February 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

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