As a Catholic I don’t judge others, but I strongly believe that those who call themselves “Catholic” should follow the doctrine and dogma of the Church. As far as condemning anyone to hell, people condemn themselves to hell, no one can do it for them! As I said before, if Pelosi really cared about her religion, and had any humility or integrity whatsoever, she wouldn’t take communion.

Pope deny Pelosi Holy Communion?” is in itself flawed because a) Pelosi won’t be attending a papal mass where she could be denied by the Holy Father on the spot, and b)the Church has a heirarchy in which Pelosi’s crimes against the unborn are to be addressed and sanctioned by her local Bishop.

Indeed. I suspect the Holy Father will leave the question of excommunication up to Pelosi’s bishop or priest, where it belongs. Popes have not dabbled much in micromanagement since the Middle Ages, and then, only in extreme circumstances. And somebody else said something insightful:

touch off a global panic about Catholic politicians having to take their marching orders from Rome

Those of us who are old enough to remember when there was a great deal of overt anti-Catholicism will recall that one of the most frequent diatribes against Catholics running for office was that they would be beholden to a foreign power. If bishops and priests did start excommunicating pro-abortion politicians, make no mistake, lots of Protestants, including some of the nastier commenters here who call themselves pro-life, would be screaming this from the rooftops.

Be careful what you wish for, Ed.

Following the General Audience the Holy Father briefly greeted Mrs Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, together with her entourage.

His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church’s consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development.

Well?

I agree with the poster who said Pelosi’s real reason for seeing the Pope is to find out if the church will close all those clinics if they’re required by law to perform abortions. I

The utter insanity of it all. Catholic health clinics providing baby-murder services. Are you kidding me?

ThackerAgency

I really can’t tell if you’re being intentionally provocative or genuinely stupid.

As a Roman Catholic, I have to say that the question being asked, “should the Pope deny Pelosi Holy Communion?” is in itself flawed because a) Pelosi won’t be attending a papal mass where she could be denied by the Holy Father on the spot, and b)the Church has a heirarchy in which Pelosi’s crimes against the unborn are to be addressed and sanctioned by her local Bishop.

This should have been done along time ago, and done by the local Bishops of every other abortion loving Catholic pol, but that is for another post.

Pope Benedict can, however, if she is to have any conversation time with him, address her blood thirsty and definately anti-Catholic beliefs and actions.

Anyway, I’m about to hit the submit comment button, and hope for the best. In other words, be nice to me; I’m a rookie.

He should make her hold a crucifix like in the movies
and see if it melts..
Or if she does,..

Judge not lest we be judged. Let’s hope some good should come from her trip.

How is this any different?

Should the Pope deny communion to Pelosi for being pro-choice?

Yes.

If she wants to continue being a Roman Catholic, she should have to abide by the precepts and principles of the Roman Catholic Church.

Her being a representative of her constituents is no excuse. If she refuses to vote contrary to the will of the people she represents, and yet wants to remain a Roman Catholic in good standing, she should resign from the House of Representatives and allow someone else to represent her district.

You can’t claim to serve God faithfully while being at Mammon’s beck and call.

Nice. I leave for 3 hours, come back and now Thacker is the deranged evangelical Catholic basher on the thread.

It is amazing to me how judgmental Catholics are to each other. It’s as though Jesus means very little…

ThackerAgency on February 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM

It is equally amazing how you fail to notice that your statement is also judgmental.

Yes, Catholics care about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes the Commandments — or at least they should care. They should also care enough about the innocent to call for their protection under the law.

Let’s break it down, shall we?

Abortion constitutes murder. Murder is a sin against the Commandments. (”Thou shalt not kill.”) Cooperation or otherwise enabling a sinful act constitutes participation in the sin. St Paul wrote that “whosoever eats or drinks unworthily of the Body and Blood of Christ brings condemnation upon themselves…” This is why the Sacrament of Communion must be approached in a state of grace.

In the case of a public official promoting or supporting legalized abortion, it is a decision freely made. No one forces them to represent their constituents in that way; their conscience might compel them to find more honorable work. That said, Madame Speaker has made her choice. And because the choice is public, it is compounded by the error of scandal, thus the admonition must eventually be public, given the failure of a private attempt.

That one is denied Communion, is out of the need for one’s repentance. That one is a politician does not let them off the hook, nor does it single them out from Catholics who lead private lives, for they too are subject to the same standard.

However I do believe she should be excommunicated for her open support of abortion in the political sphere. Excommunication is done for two reasons:
(1) to protect the sinner, since receiving communion in state of serious sin is even worse than the prior sin, and (2) to protect the faithful from scandal.

Regarding (1) the Church generally leaves it up to the individual to determine whether they are in a fit state to receive, but in cases of public sin and a large dose of ignorance (see Pelosi) the Church sometimes takes matters into its own hands for the individual’s sake.

Regarding (2), however, the case is even more clear. Pelosi is openly Catholic, and openly pro-abortion, and even tries to publicly make the case that the two are not opposed. This causes a lot of confusion for semi-informed Catholics. The Church needs to make it crystal clear that you can’t support abortion and still be Catholic. Period.

If he makes an example of Pelosi, he’ll alienate Catholic Democrats (and their donations) and touch off a global panic about Catholic politicians having to take their marching orders from Rome.

I think there is a difference between the Church demanding politicians adherence to Catholic notions of tax policy and demanding adherence to a basic respect for human life.

It would be interesting to see given the choice which Pelosi and her ilk value more – infanticide or her supposed religion.

Welcome to the disfunctional family ;-)

Thacker, you apparently have some issues. Were you abused by a priest as a child or something? Catholicism has rules, and by these rules she should not receive communion. If the leader and enforcer of the Catholic church cannot enforce the very rules that he swore to teach, we have bigger problems in the Church.

Now go run and hide… I hear there’s another Crusade heading toward your neighborhood any day now. ;-)

At least that’s what I hope he does. I seriously doubt that Pelosi would allow herself to be put in the position of being refused the Eucharist.

ThackerAgency on February 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM

I don’t know didn’t Fred Phelps and his Baptist Church accomplish quite a bit?

Just remember, don’t judge and just talk about your mutual relationships with Jesus.
sarc/

Way to smear Catholics with a broad brush and regurgitated evangelical talking points again, Thacker.