Should the Pope deny communion to Pelosi for being pro-choice?
posted at 3:08 pm on February 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Some Catholics say yes, most — I assume — would say no. It’s a pointless debate since it’ll never happen, but intriguing insofar as the weight of authority does seem to be on the side of denial.
As LifeNews.com reported, Pelosi, one of the top pro-abortion Catholics in elected office in the United States, will meet with Pope on Wednesday…
Jeff Jones, of the Catholic web site Pewsitter, is organizing the petition “requesting the Catholic Bishops of the United States to withhold Communion from her and other prominent Catholics in public life that obstinately persist in their dissent from Catholic teaching on serious moral issues.”…
Jones says Church teachings call Catholics like him to action.
“Most Catholics don’t know that in addition to Canon 915, Canon law also compels Catholics to take action,” Jones says. He says Canon 212 S3 requires lay Catholics to urge Church leaders to action.
Here’s Canon 915, withholding communion from those “obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin.” The defense, presumably, is that participating in abortion might be a sin but merely supporting laws that legalize the practice doesn’t quite rise to that level. The Pope’s been cool to that argument in the past, declaring in 2007 that Catholic legislators should take care to base their laws on “values grounded in human nature,” which includes respect for life, and then upping the ante a few months later by endorsing the excommunication of leftist Mexican parliamentarians for passing an abortion law. The Vatican quickly and quietly cleaned up the latter remarks to make his approval more ambiguous, though, which demonstrates how reluctant Benedict is to push his rhetoric beyond the mere hortatory. If he makes an example of Pelosi, he’ll alienate Catholic Democrats (and their donations) and touch off a global panic about Catholic politicians having to take their marching orders from Rome. Which is why, I suspect, the worst she’ll have to suffer during their tete a tete is a vague lecture on the importance of informing law with morality.
Look at it this way: If he had some huge problem with her, he wouldn’t be giving her an audience. Exit question: Doesn’t the Gospel according to St. Nancy explicitly endorse abortion?
Update (Ed): I’d say that the Pope should deny her communion, for reasons I’ve outlined in several posts over the last few months. It’s pretty difficult to reconcile paragraphs 2271-4 and 2322 of the catechism with Pelosi’s support of abortion rights, especially 2272:
Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,”77 “by the very commission of the offense,”78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
Excommunication means, quite literally, “no communion”. The question will be whether the Pope considers Pelosi’s push for abortion rights “formal cooperation”, an interpretation increasingly popular with American bishops tired of Catholics supporting abortions. If he doesn’t, the Pope will send a signal that participating in the legalization of abortion carries no consequences, an odd signal for this Pope in particular to send.
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Queen of the universe? i.e. Queen of heaven? You do realize where that came from, right?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
You’re a piece of work. But you’re in my prayers tonight. God Bless. Good night. I need a drink.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Right, because I’ve been calling everyone on here stupid, etc, as they’ve been calling me.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Catholics do not believe that Mary has authority of Jesus in Heaven. I’m curious as to where you got this info. Thanks.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Savor the irony.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:01 PM
The scary thing about the posters on here is the overuse of the word “hate” for anyone who disagrees. I’d encourage you to look at what ezra levant and mark steyn went through in canada, as well as that poor pastor there.
The same is happening with opponents of prop 8. Anyone who supported it is a “hater.”
Here comes the hate speech regs.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Oh shoot! It’s do unto others as they do unto you? Man, I got it so wrong…
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
She’s the mother of God and queen of the universe. Catholics regularly pray to her to intercede to get God to do things. I’d say that requires some authority, doesn’t it?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
What could more logically justified than the idea that God needs a human bureaucracy to do anything? In fact, the major problem with Intelligent Design is that the august scientists in that movement forget to mention how much the human Department of Star Creation helped God in creating the universe.
thuja on February 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Lost me there.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM
No, I’m in church every Wednesday night and Sunday morning and I attend a small Bible Study Group at a friend’s house on Thursday nights. You are wrong about me, just as you have been wrong in the hate you’ve been spewing on this thread. His love transcends denominations. But arguing with you is like putting a hat on a mule. The mule doesn’t like it and it sure doesn’t make him look any better.
kingsjester on February 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Abby,
Check this out if you are interested:
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-317
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM
YES, however it would be against the Catholics 11th Commandment.
11. Thou shall commit hypocrisy.
Wade on February 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM
No, no it does not. I could ask you to pray to the Lord Jesus Christ for me (or on my behalf)… does that mean that YOU have authority over God?
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
She’s the mother of God and queen of the universe. Catholics regularly pray to her to intercede to get God to do things. I’d say that requires some authority, doesn’t it?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
That doesn’t give her authority over Jesus, Moron as you asserted.
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Let me guess: baby-roasting, incest-having Pagans from the Land of the Pyramids?
If so, the argument could be made that, just as Platonism helped pave the way for Christianity (in the sense that its principles foreshadowed the truth of the Living God), it’s actually support, not detraction. The more witnesses support a particular claim, the more likely that it’s true. That’s not mine – I love Mary as much as the next non-RC guy, but I have issues with Catholic justification theology – but food for thought.
It’s one of the (less popular, I think) arguments for God’s existence; either every culture who ever believed in God was wrong, or you are – which is more likely?
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
YOu are a coward. You would never go to an Islamic website and question the authenticity of the Islamic faith. You come here to accuse Catholics of believing in a false religion. Again, you are a coward. I don’t really care what you think, but I do care that you find Catholics a safe target. That speaks volumes about our culture. And believe me, I know that you don’t speak to Muslims the same way.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
I’m not surprised.
“Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
–Mahatma Gandhi
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
So going to church makes you a Christian? What was Christ talking about in regard to the narrow road and the sheep and the goats?
For what it’s worth, you’re not helping your lost friends by acting like they aren’t lost just so they can think you’re cool and hip and “open minded” and “not one of those.” You’re simply making this world a nicer place to go to hell from.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:06 PM
The “hate” is probably addressed at the equation of Catholicism and paganism.
Catholics don’t sacrifice children, have incestual orgies, or anything like that. Most people don’t take kindly to such insinuations. Let someone else make you the poster-child of free speech.
[P.S., people are allowed to respond however they'd like; doesn't make it reputable, but the rules apply there, too.]
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Condescension is a poor debate tactic.
Jesus in john 14:15 “If you love me, you’ll obey my commands.” By Christ’s own definition, Gandhi didn’t love Him.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
I’ll let you get back to your fight… but will also join me in conemning these Popes? Thx!
There’s more if you need them. ;)
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Catholicism has borrowed heavily from paganism.
Do you think that someone who rejects Christ but is basically a moral person by the standards of society is better than joe pagan in timbuktu who eats people? This is all works based salvation.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
I didn’t realize I was debating.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Good night, folks!
Try the veal.
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Sorry, whining. I thought to give you the benefit of the doubt.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM
INTERCEDE…yes!!! Force Him to do anything? No!!
One of the Commandments is “Honor your father and mother”. How could Jesus deny a request made by His mother?
Mary, as the mother of Christ, is thus the mother of all mankind.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Yes.
DrStock on February 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
No, I think belief in Christ as God Incarnate, the Redeemer, the Good Shepherd, gets you into heaven, assuming you accept the victory of Calvary and give your heart/repent.
Hindus don’t do that. There are plenty of Catholics who believe in Christ’s atonement and the promise of eternal life. They and I disagree on the mechanics, not the machine.
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Catholics believe they are the true faith? Holy cow! What a shock!
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
So basically
1. We need Mary to get to God(sort of like, I dunno, JESUS?)
2. Mary has some influence over God.
Neither is biblical.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
So do JWs and Mormons.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Notice our dear Theo refrains from Muslim bashing. Speaks volumes.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
So did Islam. What say you about that? Let’s bash Islam now, yeah that’s the ticket!
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Completely unbiblical. John Chapter 1 says the “children of God” are those who receive him and believe in his name. They are ADOPTED. This mankind stuff is out there.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Whining? Complementing you on your exemplary Christian behavior while “debating” Christianity is whining? Who knew?
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Islam is a false religion. I’ve said that repeatedly. But, as I said, I also evangelize to them just as I do catholics.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Yeah, I’ve only said Islam was a false religion about 10 times now.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
You need to read some CS Lewis…maybe you’ll learn something.
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Did C.S. Lewis address Isis?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM
I bet you get a lot of converts. Try an Iron Lady. It’s quicker and less painful than your brand of salesmanship.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Incredibly false. Slanderous!
Mormons deny that Christ was the sole incarnation of God and that He is your path to eternal life. There is no judgement, according to Mormonism; we all go to Heaven. (This is accepted by laypeople and hierarchy; on a street-witnessing event I did, one lady who eventually brushed me off told me she hoped that she could beat Hitler up, but that he wouldn’t go to Hell). They believe in becoming a god, according to Joseph Smith.
JW’s believe in salvation for only 144,000.
Only Christianity – RC, Orthodox, Protestant – believe in Christ as you and I understand him. Terribly lazy of you to say otherwise.
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
He won’t bash Islam. He is too afraid. Bashing Islam is taboo….you know…hate speech and such. Bashing Catholicism is A-OK!!!!! It’s the liberal culture fest.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
*sigh*
Where’s my scotch?
You don’t NEED Mary to get to God. It doesn’t hurt to have her on your side for you tho.
And what mother doesn’t have influence on her own son? It most certainly IS biblical that we “honor thy mother and father”.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
Excuse me? Christ’s command was that we love one another, not condemn one another to Hell. I know Who I believe and what I believe. We are all human. We all sin. I am far from perfect, but I am forgiven. I have sung in choirs for 30 years. Trust me. I am far from “cool”. But, God loves me anyway.
kingsjester on February 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
I thought you were the guys who burned people to death for refusing to “believe?”
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
What faith do you belong to?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Also, JW’s have Jesus as a created being and equate him with Michael the Archangel (and also deny Hell).
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:15 PM
I can’t help you in your ignorance.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
God’s word condemns us all to hell, and the only way we escape that is by Christ alone. You aren’t helping the lost by denying the fact that they are lost. Scripture says the fear of the lord is the beginning of Wisdom. Paul preached to Felix about judgment to where Felix trembled in fear.
People like Pelosi believe what they do and do what they do because they are not afraid of God and his wrath. Even Christ himself said we should fear the one who can kill the body and soul.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Somehow dear Theo, I don’t think this site is teeming with Muslims. Why don’t you go to a Muslimish site and bash there? Show us how equal opportunity you really are.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
I’m a non-denom protestant.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
So how exactly is telling someone they practice a false religion evangelizing? Is that persuasive? NO.
I’m still waiting for you to cite where the Catholic Church is oppressing people currently around the world? Tap, tap, tap….
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
TTheo, do yourself a little favor, and just watch this short video. It explains, as the vid is titled, “Why Am I Catholic?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Whatever it is, who would want to join if he exemplifies its adherents?
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Good night all. Ttheo, I will honestly and earnestly pray to God for you…heck, I will probably ask Maty and the Saints to intercede with him on your behalf.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Sort of like how Catholics elevate Mary to the position of a goddess who we need to get God to do things?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Come on TTheo..what faith or church do you belong to?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Thanks, too bad we can’t speak straight to God, huh?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Theo evangelizes Muslims????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!! With what? A bullet proof vest?
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Oops…Maty was meant to be Mary…no comments ok Ttheo!
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Oh believe me…we can and do speak directly to God, but every little bit helps too.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
You don’t seem to understand, I regard Catholics as lost just as any other false religion. I speak to them about the need for Christ and coming judgment in the same way I’d speak to muslims.
http://www.comeandsee.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=766
The pastor was almost killed in this instance. That’s just one example.
Try going to a catholic country and starting an evangelical church there and see where it gets you:)
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
TTheoLogan:
Do you not believe that Mary was the mother of Jesus (as stated in MT 1:16, 18-25 KJV)?
And do you not believe that Jesus is the Lord, the Word made Flesh (John Chapter 1)?
So how was Mary not the mother of God? Either you are admitting that Mary was not Jesus’ mother, that Jesus is not God, or that at some point you can separate Jesus’ divinity so that Mary could be the mother of Jesus the man, but not Jesus the Lord.
So please enlighten me. Thanks.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Right, because unless we ask Mary, God won’t listen to us.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Wow, that was hateful and bashing, wasn’t it?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Wrong! But bless you anyway.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Abby, check this out:
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-317
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM
No, not even close. You’re overplaying your hand here. Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ was the incarnation of God; only such a doctrine could explain the glory of Calvary.
To equate that with whatever Marian peculiarities you can find in the Roman Catholic Church (the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption) is darn near blasphemous. It is not the same to say Jesus loves his mom, to say Jesus is an angel. (By the way, why not ask Mary or saints to pray for you? We know they’re in Heaven, and Christians pray for each other all the time. I never saw the controversy here; there are much more obvious issues.)
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Your projection of what you think Catholics believe is showing once again. Ignorance is bliss…
Nobody, Catholic or otherwise believes you have to go thru Mary to get to God.
You are unstable. Take you meds…
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Dude, you cannot separate mary from catholicism, period. You find it more acceptable than mormonism because you know more catholics and it’s considered more mainstream. Check this out:
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-317
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Paraphrase, please.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:23 PM
The catholic church seems to have a habit of using euphemisms to get around blatant scripture.
1.Calling priests father
2.Calling mary worship “reverance”
3.forbidding marriage and eating of meat.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:24 PM
It’s all there. I have to go take a nap before meeting with someone. If you’re still unsure after reading or listening to that(there is an mp3 link), let me know.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:24 PM
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Can’t answer the questions huh…then I’ll assume you to be faithless. You are only good at spewing your hatred of other faiths..that’s all you have. You know, you do have something in common with Satan..absolute lack of truth. Good for you!
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Let’s just say I’m a big dummy, and I need you to assist me. I’m afraid it will go over my head. So go ahead and use your own words to evangelize me. Thanks, TT.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:26 PM
No, I find it more acceptable because it doesn’t deny Christ’s divinity. You cannot have spent more than ten minutes researching this subject if you think they’re equal. There’s some issues I have, as a Protestant, but nowhere near the same.
Oh, and it was Christianity, for the West, for over a millennium.
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Geez, I’ve been away for several hours (since yesterday, actually) and just saw the thread about Pelosi meeting the Pope tomorrow. Naturally, when I clicked on it, it brought me to the most recent page of posts… and I see it has devolved into the usual “Catholics worship Mary” cry of those ignorant of Roman Catholicism.
Roman Catholics do not worship Mary. We worship the Triune God only. We honor Mary as the Mother of God’s only Son. Mary is the Immaculate Conception (a fact that is grossly misplayed by secular society): chosen by God at the time of her conception to be without sin and the mother of his Son. We honor her because she is the embodiment of what a Christian should strive to be — she selflessly gave herself entirely to God when called upon to do so. Prayers to Mary are not worship — they are entreaties for her to intercede on our behalf with her Son. Note that Jesus’ first recorded public miracle was at the wedding at Cana, and it came about after His mother asked Him to do something to alleviate the shortage of wine at the celebration. In that vein, we implore Mary to bring our concerns to her Son… not to imply she has a mystical power equivalent to God’s, but rather, in acknowledgement of the special and unique relationship Mary has with Christ.
Mary is not God – she is our role model for Christian goodness, service and sacrifice in deference to the will of God.
D2Boston on February 17, 2009 at 5:31 PM
You seriously know nothing…and I mean nothing…about Catholics, the Church, or the slightest inkling of Catholic doctrine.
It’s incredible. God bless ya.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:31 PM
I’d say this is a very sensible post. Calm and explanatory. Thanks, D2.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 5:34 PM
TTheoLogan
Your link is not credible. One-sided article from an evangelical source. Try again. I can cite the Catholic Review for articles of oppression of Catholics. Doesn’t make it credible.
Start an evangelical church in a Catholic country? You mean, like Italy, America? Your generalizations are over-reaching.
You are a non-denominational, bible-reading, Chritian? Does that mean you are a Arab-Evangelical-Christian b/c that’s what you sound like.
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Welcome and AMEN!
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 5:36 PM
I think the Pope should advise Nancy: “Go ahead and spout all the political bullshit you want, but lay off expounding on church doctrine……you’re in way over your head there. Even your boss says ‘It’s above my paygrade’”.
GarandFan on February 17, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Rules are made to be broken…new Pope edict.
right2bright on February 17, 2009 at 5:41 PM
But don’t you pray to her, asking her to intervene, which puts her as a deity? If not then why pray and ask for her intervention in your life.
I think,for most Catholics, she is more then just a role model.
right2bright on February 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM
ThackerAgency on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Apparently you missed the several times I stated I am not Catholic. I have never been Catholic. The chain of authority from Peter was broken. However, that doesn’t keep me from recognizing the fact that they at least have some basis for their claim to divine authority. Protestants don’t, unless they believe in a God that will recognize any ol’ person who picks up a Bible as his authorized agent.
TTheo,
How can any such person make any claim to “moral authority”? If you believe that anyone who picks up a Bible and begins preaching it has the “moral authority” from God to do so, then how can you claim that the Mormons, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, etc., are fallen? They interpret the scriptures differently from you. By the Protestant definition God still has to recognize them just as much as he recognizes the Protestants. So how can one say with any degree of consistency that they are fallen?
This is the essential conundrum of the Protestant movement. Once you break away from any claim to any real authority from God to preach and perform rites, you are left without any firm foundation save the Bible. And since there seems to be as many interpretations of the Bible as there are readers, they end up with a confusing mass of churches all claiming “moral authority” from God.
Am I preaching Catholicism? No, never. They lost their authority over a thousand years ago, but they at least have a consistent argument.
Marking Time on February 17, 2009 at 5:46 PM
I finally figured out who TTheo is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNG5ILNWwik
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:48 PM
One thing I learned many, many years ago is never, ever go to one church to explain the teachings of another. If the Catholics claim that their reverence of Mary is not worship, then who am I to gainsay?
Marking Time on February 17, 2009 at 5:48 PM
can’t see it… at work.
upinak on February 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Why do you ask your friends to pray for you? I think it’s similar.
Anyway, just because a Baptist kills someone doesn’t make it a tent of Baptism. There are Catholics who are wrong about Catholic Mariology. But I disagree; otherwise, large swaths of the world would have to, having converted from paganism, realized the pagan/polytheistic nature of Catholic Christianity. And those that were raised in the faith would have to have been too dumb to realize it.
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Let’s face it – TTheoLogan is one of those annoying people who knock on your door or shove their literature at you and tell you they want to “save” you. And yet he criticizes other religions for thinking they’re correct in their beliefs.
katiejane on February 17, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Actually, katiejane, I enjoy talking to those “annoying” people. At least they know what they believe. Too few Christians do nowadays. They leave religion up to their ministers and priests.
It’s all rather sad, really.
Marking Time on February 17, 2009 at 5:52 PM
What ever happened to excomunication? Don’t they still do that? I’d donate money for that.
BrideOfRove on February 17, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Pentecostal Prophet Confirms Man Should Be Catholic.
Dr Evil on February 17, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Does anyone aside from Ed really care what the Pope thinks?
Actually, even he doesn’t care does he? Given he sanctioned his own daughter getting knocked up out of marriage by some guy.
Hardly orthodox Catholicism.
Ares on February 17, 2009 at 5:54 PM
bah…
Watch it when ya get home. You’ll agree ;-)
(it’s vid of a wacky preacher who interrupts Catholic Mass by ranting on and on against the Church.)
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Awww….I love a good Catholic bashing thread. It makes me feel even more secure in my faith. Christ said his followers would be hated and as always, he wasn’t lying.
For the anti-Catholic Sola Scriptura types, (or anyone with an interest in the truth about the Church) you might find the book A Biblical Defense of Catholicism enlightening. It was written by a man, Dave Armstrong, who apparently was one of you until he found the fullness of the Truth.
Go ahead and read it. I dare you.
~Pax vobiscum :)
pannw on February 17, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Then why do you keep linking to a website owned by a fundamentalist Baptist?
Seeing how John MacArthur is a Dispensationalist, why do you see the Jews as lost? They get saved in the end too, right?
Or are you as confused about your own beliefs as you are about Catholicism?
darclon on February 17, 2009 at 5:58 PM
right2bright on February 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM
http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/saints.html
Dr Evil on February 17, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Good for you, pannw. I’d like to read it. Is it available on Amazon.
Marking Time on February 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM
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