Should the Pope deny communion to Pelosi for being pro-choice?
posted at 3:08 pm on February 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Some Catholics say yes, most — I assume — would say no. It’s a pointless debate since it’ll never happen, but intriguing insofar as the weight of authority does seem to be on the side of denial.
As LifeNews.com reported, Pelosi, one of the top pro-abortion Catholics in elected office in the United States, will meet with Pope on Wednesday…
Jeff Jones, of the Catholic web site Pewsitter, is organizing the petition “requesting the Catholic Bishops of the United States to withhold Communion from her and other prominent Catholics in public life that obstinately persist in their dissent from Catholic teaching on serious moral issues.”…
Jones says Church teachings call Catholics like him to action.
“Most Catholics don’t know that in addition to Canon 915, Canon law also compels Catholics to take action,” Jones says. He says Canon 212 S3 requires lay Catholics to urge Church leaders to action.
Here’s Canon 915, withholding communion from those “obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin.” The defense, presumably, is that participating in abortion might be a sin but merely supporting laws that legalize the practice doesn’t quite rise to that level. The Pope’s been cool to that argument in the past, declaring in 2007 that Catholic legislators should take care to base their laws on “values grounded in human nature,” which includes respect for life, and then upping the ante a few months later by endorsing the excommunication of leftist Mexican parliamentarians for passing an abortion law. The Vatican quickly and quietly cleaned up the latter remarks to make his approval more ambiguous, though, which demonstrates how reluctant Benedict is to push his rhetoric beyond the mere hortatory. If he makes an example of Pelosi, he’ll alienate Catholic Democrats (and their donations) and touch off a global panic about Catholic politicians having to take their marching orders from Rome. Which is why, I suspect, the worst she’ll have to suffer during their tete a tete is a vague lecture on the importance of informing law with morality.
Look at it this way: If he had some huge problem with her, he wouldn’t be giving her an audience. Exit question: Doesn’t the Gospel according to St. Nancy explicitly endorse abortion?
Update (Ed): I’d say that the Pope should deny her communion, for reasons I’ve outlined in several posts over the last few months. It’s pretty difficult to reconcile paragraphs 2271-4 and 2322 of the catechism with Pelosi’s support of abortion rights, especially 2272:
Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,”77 “by the very commission of the offense,”78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
Excommunication means, quite literally, “no communion”. The question will be whether the Pope considers Pelosi’s push for abortion rights “formal cooperation”, an interpretation increasingly popular with American bishops tired of Catholics supporting abortions. If he doesn’t, the Pope will send a signal that participating in the legalization of abortion carries no consequences, an odd signal for this Pope in particular to send.
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fixed that for me
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM
But God still does.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Why is it that I like you a lot more than TTheoLogan? :-)
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Simple… he wasn’t given the “keys to heaven” but to the “key of the kingdom of heaven.” He exercised these keys to Israel at Pentecost (note the command in Matt 10 to preach “the gospel of the Kingdom” to JEWS ONLY) and to Gentiles at Acts 10 (after being given allowance by the Lord). However, the other apostles preached to “Jews Only” because the “kingdom” was the “kingdom” promised to Israel alone in Ex 19:5-6 (Gentiles being allowed in, in a lower position, solely to make Israel jealous).
Peter was NEVER given the right to confirm or deny anything else. In fact, he was rebuked by Paul (Gal 2) for his error.
No enough space here…
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
You brought the poll up to “prove” that there was not a pro-life majority among Catholics.
The only way the poll reaches that result is by including non-practicing Catholics.
Non-practicing Catholics are NOT representative of the faith.
Yours is the far more “convenient” reading of the poll.
benjamin on February 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Because I smile as I type?
:)
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
The pope has little if any influence anymore.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I would be absolutely ecstatic if the Catholic Church denied communion to Pelosi. Of course, since my attitude towards the Catholic Church is only positive when compared to my attitude towards Communism, Nazism, and Islam, I doubt that the Catholic Church is out to make me happy.
thuja on February 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
I’m sure, if you asked mankai a few revealing questions and he gave you his thoughts, you might not like him much anymore(that’s assuming he believes what I think he believes).
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
I dunno, Bitter…As a Catholic also, I don’t think excommunication is even a thought. Sure, Pelosi and all pro-choice Catholics have issues butting heads with Catholic doctrine. Heck, my own situation as teh ghey is conflicting with The Church. I guess I leave that up to God to laud over me if He so chooses.
The Pope’s main responsibility is to protect Church doctrine as passed onto the Church by Christ Himself through Peter.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
I think if the Pope’s not meeting her to at least put the fear of God in her, he’s making a big mistake by meeting her for any other reason. Doesn’t he know she’s a dick-head?
JiangxiDad on February 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Jetboy, where do people go after they die if they are excommunicated?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
TTheoLogan – just to make things easier for you. If one must count the body parts to make sure you have “gotten them all” it’s freaken wrong. Capiche?
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Lost me there.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Only God knows. And btw…why do you hate the Catholic church?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
The Pope should also have a responsibility to disavow false Popes, and that would be Nasty Pelosi.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM
It’s a false religion. Hate is a rather strong word, but I do definitely regard it as just as false as mormonism, islam, etc. But, I do evangelize them just the same as mormons and muslims. God loves them all.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Not Catholics who disagree with me… can Catholics who disagree with their faith and don’t practice truly be called “Catholic”. That’s what I’m saying. Can people who aren’t conservative self-identify as “conservative” legitimately?
My likes and dislikes are not based on your two’s beliefs. It’s based on the way you’ve both been handling the topic and the fellow commenters in this thread.
But that’s just my opinion… other people may vary.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Excellent defense. Much in the way that raping a woman might be a sin, but working within the framework of the legislature to actually make rape legal would be less abhorrent, or even forgiveable. I guess.
Jaibones on February 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
The Pope’s main responsibility is to protect Church doctrine as passed onto the Church by Christ Himself through Peter.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Thanks that is the best response to the question posed in this post. Pope do your duty (Sheppard) attend to your flock.
Dr Evil on February 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Ok, then ask him if he thinks that those who believe in catholicism will go to heaven.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
You’ll have to ask God Himself. Only He knows.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
So what do you consider to be a true religion?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
They’re called “Anti-Popes”.
(That’s true, by the way)
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
What, then is the true religion? Once more, why do you care what others believe?
genso on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Well, good thing we have scripture, eh?
Is there salvation outside of the catholic church? Are you “outside” of the catholic church one you are excommunicated?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Just like you said AP…IT’S POINTLESS..so why did you post it? Athiest organism again?
DCJeff on February 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Biblical Christianity, not the repackaged worship of Isis.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Again, it’s not about your beliefs.
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
It’s one thing to stamp your feet and shout “It’s a false religion”, and I understand your overbearing need for attention. However, your saying it’s false doesn’t make it so. Now, if you could set forth a legitimate argument as to why you believe it’s false then perhaps we could have an intelligent debate.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
At first it sounded like you were playing the Catholic with hurt feelings. But I see that in fact you’re just a Catholic hater, and celebrate what you perceive as the Pope’s diminished authority with his own flock.
Fun.
Jaibones on February 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Thank-you, TTheo.
Yes, I agree that the RCC does not have an unbroken line of succession from Peter. That is why I am not Catholic. However, they at least have a hope or a claim that they do.
I have often been amazed that people such as the Protestants can study the Bible, form a church to teach their interpretation of the Bible, and then assume that God will recognize their authority to administer such ordinances as Baptism (sprinkling, immersion, or otherwise). Many of them ordain their clergy through the laying on of hands, yet no one did that to their founders. They just assumed the authority to do so. And God is supposed to recognize this?
The creator of the universe, the being that set the planets and stars in motion in their appointed courses would not be so chaotic in my way of thinking.
So, TTheo, what is the answer? If the Catholics no longer have the authority from Christ through Peter, and the Protestants cannot claim authority from God with any degree of credibility, are we without hope?
Marking Time on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
It doesn’t matter whether they agree with me or not. What matters is whether or not they agree with the teachings of the Church. As a non-practicing Catholic myself, I don’t presume to ask the Church to conform itself to my views; rather, I accept that I am not a true Catholic.
I agree with you, but the poll doesn’t show that either.
benjamin on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
TTheoLogan – why the hate speech against the Catholic Church?
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Right, I have an overbearing need for attention and I’m stamping my feet, and also shouting, by responding to a question.
It’s repackaged Isis/goddess Worship, it puts tradition over scripture, etc.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Great. I’m happy you have a belief. Why does it bother you what others believe? How does it affect your life and your beliefs?
genso on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Its a sin either way. She as an adult and a confirmed adult I assume, she has taken it upon herself to follow the laws of the Church in that regard. To condone abortion is to sin. You cannot be in good graces of the Church or God if you are a willing accessory to the murder of innocent life.
TheHat on February 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I definitely am starting to think this is huffpost.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Why are you attacking people for answering questions?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Yes, of course.
Obviously.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
“The chritening – no need to do the “dunk or drown” version.’
I guess it was good enough for the Savior.
This argument with ttheologan is just plain stupid. You believe what you believe and he apparently believes nothing.
Bambi on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Just now seeing this….
/:-)
Talismen on February 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
I think Catholics are lost just like Mormons, JWS, etc. The idea that I would stop believing huge portions of scripture because someone calls me “hateful” is a little insulting, particularly because Christians have suffered and died throughout history for refusing to reject scripture.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
So it’s catholic doctrine that there is salvation outside of the catholic church?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Well, I know scores of popes (and councils) believed that if one wasn’t in the Catholic Church (”no matter how blameless in other aspects of life”) there was “no salvation”… and they weren’t shy in declaring it.
Vat2 contains an anathema for denying indulgences and warns Catholics and those familar with Catholic teachings that if they “either willingly leave or refuse to enter [the RCC], hence, they cannot be saved.”
You can also buy eternal torment for things like using the f-word in an abusive manner or for masturbating or for looking sexually at a woman, etc. But, hey, who’s counting?
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Because, again, you believe nothing if you do not believe in catholicism.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I’m just curious how attacking another’s belief helps your own beliefs? What’s the benefit to you to challenge what other’s believe. I would ask that of anyone here.
genso on February 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
wait a minute..you’re the one who said the Catholic church is a false church..you didn’t say parts of it or some of it..so I’m asking you, what part of the Catholic teachings of Christ are false?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM
I’m still a bit unclear as to your position.
Those who believe in Catholicism are in the same boat as anyone else who rejects Christ. No better, no worse.
i.e. No better or worse than Joe Hindu in the middle of India.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Ttheologan, in what conceivable way is Christianity “repackaged Isis/goddess worship”? Your inorance of all religion, past and present, is showing through with every post.
May God bless you and keep you close
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM
The worship of Mary, referring to her as queen of heaven, etc, was ripped off of the goddess Isis.
Come on, everyone knows catholicism took things from other religions. Look at the prayer beads that they use along with muslims. It’s archbishop fulton sheen who said that catholics and muslims may one day merge out of their love of mary/fatima.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM
TTheologan = Southern Baptist.
benjamin on February 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Just to name a few:
1.Mary as a coredemptrix/mother of God
2.The continuation of the priesthood and apostolic succession
3.Tradition holds equal/more weight than scripture
4.Purgatory
And of course, they are bringing good ole indulgences back.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Benjamin, are you baptist bashing now?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
If anyone is unclear on their position it would be you. Not once have you stated your personal position on faith..you just bash everyone elses. That tells me you are a pretty empty soul. Sad for you.
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Ttheologan, it is very important to Catholics, Mormon and Jews what you think. Apparently your bravery, like so many liberals stops short of questioning Islam.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Now, hey there a minute. Catholicism isn’t like Mormonism or Hinduism or the “spiritual” guys. I’m a Protestant, so I’ll need the support of my papist amigos on this one, but Catholicism believes that Christ is God Incarnate, and that he takes away the sins of the world. Assuming repentance of their sin and genuine belief in Christ, how in the heck is that like Hinduism?
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Now, let’s have a moment of unity and agree that these guys were “Protestant Bashers” and full of crap, shall we?
;)
[Dead Horse] BEAT BEAT BEAT!!!
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Catholics do NOT “worship” Mary! Let’s knock that one off right away. Catholics worship God…period. Catholics revere Mary as the Mother of God and ask her to intercede with God on their behalf, but they do NOT worship her.
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Are you saying Mary was not the mother of Christ?
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I’m just curious how attacking another’s belief helps your own beliefs? What’s the benefit to you to challenge what other’s believe.
genso on February 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Amen. Purely anecdotal. I must say, I’ve attended many different churches. I have only heard Catholic bashing at Evangelical churches.
I’ve never heard a Catholic priest even mention another faith w/derision.
JAM on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I’ve stated my position about 5 times.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I’m saying she’s not the mother of God.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Only if you concede that your behavior doesn’t reflect well on Southern Baptists.
benjamin on February 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Church doctrine states that if you leave the Church knowing it to be divine, no salvation unless you repent and return to the Church. Nothing in Catholic doctrine states that there is no salvation outside the Church for those who follow Christ’s teachings the best they know them to be, live good lives and do good works.
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Ah right, you guys use euphemisms really well.
“we don’t worship her, we just worship her but call it “revering” here.
The truth is, there’s no catholicism without Mary.
Mel Gibson said it best after his movie when he said, “I’m surprised so many protestants loved my movie despite it being so marian.”
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
As a Catholic I’m going to have to go with no, she should not receive the eucharist. Taking communion without penance for such a mortal sin, creates an even bigger sin. And for the Church to give her communion is equally disheartening. I’ve already emailed the Vatican regarding Pelosi and her record of genocide.
chicagojedi on February 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
We don’t WORSHIP Mary, we adore her. Big difference. But go ahead and believe what you want. As I said, go on to Muslim website and preach your hate. I love it when Liberal principles can be applied to conservative values. LOL!!!
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
So doesn’t an excommunicated person know that the church is divine, and therefore they have no chance at salvation?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Guess who Christ is….God..unless he lied to us!! But I’ll take his Word over your ignorance.
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Since Christ is God and Mary was the mother of Christ, she is ipso facto the mother of God
Trafalgar on February 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
You know, if you call an apple a peach, yet it has all the characteristics of an apple, it’s an apple.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Of course there is no Catholicism without Mary. Are you dense or just stupid?
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
They must first repent. What are you missing here?
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
It’s a game for the weak and uncertain.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
No, and I’m sure you’re well aware the reason you reference her as such is to show she has some authority over Christ still to this day, which she certainly did not. There’s absolutely no biblical basis for saying our parents have authority over us in heaven.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
I think some explanation can come from the (controversial) theory of the “anonymous Christian” (Salvation outside the Catholic Church).
Abby Adams on February 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
*facepalm*
JetBoy on February 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
So they have to repent and then come back into the church, if allowed?
How can you say then that you don’t believe the pope can keep people from heaven?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Let me guess, having that “let’s burn the heretic at the stake” itch?:)
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Obviously Ttheo knows nothing about Christ…
“I and my Father are ONE.”
–Jesus Christ, John 10:30
Wileygrl3 on February 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I cannot determine whether anyone has eternal life or not based on his choice of label. What does concern me, however, is when one claims a label without understanding what it entails. Catholics do not define Catholicism, the Popes and Councils do. I only care what THEY decree is “catholicism.”
When I found eternal life I was still a very actice RC teaching Religious Education. I trust for those few months there were plenty of people sitting in Southern Baptists pews who did not have eternal life. The point being: the label did not matter.
Whether we admit it or not, we ALL have but ONE theology… our own… and we will answer for it. Of course, if someone doesn’t agree with the Popes or doesn’t care about their warnings of eternal fire, why then would he trust in their promises of eternal life?
I’m sure I hold beliefs that you would applaud… and a few you would damn… but we don’t have to answer for each other, now do we? ;)
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I think it’s pretty telling that when PJP II was shot, he called out for mary to save him.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
If you call a peach a peach and it looks like an apple but smells like a peach and tastes like a zucchini, and digests like a pear, what is it? It’s a pile of sh*t, just like you. You have had your fun here, now run along.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
“As an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator—St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know. The point is, is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose.”
I apologize in advance for stating the obvious but Ms. Pelosi is an intellectually confused and morally conflicted woman. What exactly does it mean to be an “ardent” Catholic when one disingenuously obfuscates the church’s position and creates a moral trap door from which she can escape the inherent contradictions of her views. As both an ardent Catholic and an ardent supporter of all things abortion, Ms Pelosi would have us believe that she is unable to determine if a baby that is moments away from birth is alive, but she finally gives up by saying it simply doesn’t matter, a woman’s right to an abortion is unlimited.
“The point is, is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose.”
Apparently her bona fides as a Catholic scholar have created something of a moral hazard for the Speaker.
moxie_neanderthal on February 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Oh and another thing…..Bless you.
bloggless on February 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
TTheologan = Southern Baptist.
benjamin on February 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Maybe. But, if he is, he has serious issues. Even if he isn’t, he has serious issues. I’m Southern Baptist. I’ve have had several good friends over the years, including a girlfriend in college, that were Catholic. I’ve attended Mass, and ushered in weddings in Catholic Churches. Theo has successfully taken over a thread to expound upon his own belief system. More’s the pity. I’ll be praying for you tonight, also, Theo.
kingsjester on February 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
You are an exemplary Christian. You do your denomination proud. God bless you and your good works.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
What’s my choice of a label? I didn’t say all catholics, I said specifically if you believe in catholicism, meaning mary as a co redemptrix, justification by works, etc.
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
What’s my denomination?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
TTheo doesn’t understand Doctrine… because you can’t understand something unless you have studied it. It doesn’t even know the difference in an Archbishop or a Cardinal is… as most catholics know from the time they are small via classes.
He hasn’t studied Catholism… and we all know this. So argueing with this lugnut is like talking to a Double Yellow Headed Amazon…. it may talk back, but it it’s head it is just repeating things that you said but doesn’t have a clue what it is saying.
Let it spew hate. Allah even gave him crap.. who is Aethist. I think the arguement is done.
upinak on February 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Uh, I’m not southern baptist, and I can tell you for a fact that the denomination, with such people like Al Mohler, would definitely disagree with your views about catholicism. Let me guess, you’re like the “non-practicing” pro-abortion catholics, except a non-practicing southern baptist?
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM
LOL… and a quick read through the thread shows why most people stay away from conversations like this…
My book says you are wrong… and even though written by Men… God really wrote it…
As to the origional question… YES… Pelosi is voluntarily part of the Catholic church… which has very defined rules…
Unless the Church wishes to remain powerless… they MUST follow their own rules…
Oh… and to those who don’t know… a Priest does NOT ExCommunicate someone… the Bell, Book, and Candle is just the Public acknolegement of somthing the person has already done to themselves… which according to Church doctrine, Pelosi has definatly strayed…
Romeo13 on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Like my catholic friend said the other day, “anyone who truly understands catholicism would be a catholic.”
TTheoLogan on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Alright, let’s cut the crap.
Marian Catholics revere Mary as a blessed woman of faith, whose devotion warranted being the vessel of Christ. That is the idea of Mother of God, Queen of the Universe: She is the mother of the Incarnation of God. There’s some historical background to the Queen being the mother of the monarch, not the wife – notice Solomon had all those wives, so they couldn’t all be “queen”: thus, when you work it all out, it really isn’t as grating as it sounds to my (and I assume your) Protestant ears.
The tradition thing does worry me, though.
emailnuevo on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
To be honest, I see quite a bit of uncertainty on both sides of this debate.
genso on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Geez, we’re on Mary now! LOL!
Try this:
Since Christ is the Son of God and He is the Son of David, ipso facto, David must be God? Further, since He is also the Son of Man, God must therefore be a man named David?
mankai on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Does it matter? I’m complementing you on your exemplary Christian behavior by doing unto others as you would have done unto you.
TheBigOldDog on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
because, of course, the only one who can POSSIBLY assume authority is the Catholic Church (says the Catholic Church – surprise). ARROGANCE is why Catholicism is a false religion. The monopolistic claim to salvation is why Catholicism is a false religion. Idolatry (even idolizing the pope) is why Catholicism is a false religion.
But reading this last quote, you would think that John the Baptist was indeed the first ‘pope’ and not Peter. How DARE John the Baptist baptize Christ?@!
Protestants put their trust, belief, faith in GOD and our salvation in our savior Jesus Christ. How that comes about isn’t as important as what it means. My sins have been washed away by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not some hierarchy of papal ascendancy.
ThackerAgency on February 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
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