The real betrayal of Specter, Collins, and Snowe
posted at 11:15 am on February 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
I have one last thought on the Porkulus events from last week. This weekend, Mitch and I took a lot of calls on the passage of Porkulus, with many demanding some retribution for Senators Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins. Usually, both Mitch and I advise against revenge on defector votes. We both agree that a big-tent party has to have room for some disagreement, and the only way to get to a majority again in Congress is to build a large enough coalition to take charge. Purity drives lower our numbers and our ability to influence policy.
This, however, is a different matter. First, the Republicans need to re-establish credibility as the party of fiscal responsibility, and supporting Porkulus is antithetical to that effort. No matter how big a tent the Republicans need to pitch, they still need to stand for core values — and among them should be fiscal responsibility and smaller government for greater individual liberty. Porkulus fails on both counts, which is why the House GOP maintained a solid wall of opposition to it. Specter, Snowe, and Collins apparently don’t share those values.
But in this case, the betrayal goes beyond core values. Despite Barack Obama’s demagoguery earlier in the week, many Republicans wanted a big stimulus package to come out of Congress as quickly as possible. Given the chance, Republican partnership would have produced a bill with less long-term spending, more short-term spending, better tax cuts, and a huge reduction in the health-care bureaucracy that comprised almost half of Porkulus. Such a bill would have easily received a hundred Republican votes or more in the House and may have passed on acclamation in the Senate, and it would have sent a message of unity in a time of economic crisis.
In order to get that, Republicans had to shut down Porkulus. It would have forced Democrats to negotiate with Republicans and get the better bill to Obama’s desk. All we needed was Republicans to stand firm in the service of their fellow Republicans and to defy Nancy Pelosi’s triumphalism. The House did its job, as did most of the Republicans in the Senate, even while saying that they would support a real stimulus package. Instead, Specter, Collins, and Snowe essentially stabbed their colleagues in the back — while Specter whined about the lack of debate on the bill, after he voted for cloture and an end to debate.
That was the real betrayal.
What can the Republicans do to the Porkulus 3? Not much, really. The GOP needs them to offer an illusory chance at filibustering legislation, although their failure to filibuster something as bad as Porkulus more or less exposes that as an empty threat. Republicans need to find credible primary opponents for these three, even if it means losing the seats, because after Porkulus it appears they’re already lost.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next »
As you say, BPD. I won’t mind if I’m wrong. I honestly can’t remember that much about her speeches, much less her policy decisions.
Frivolous on February 16, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Frivolous on February 16, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Palin is a fiscal reformer and governs like one. While she is personally very socially conservative she does not seek to impose her views on others through government action. She vetoed a gay marriage bill that went against the Alaska constitution. I don’t believe the government at any level should be imposing socially liberal or conservative policies on the people. I vote as a social conservative when those matters are on the ballot but they are last on my list when evaluating a candidate. Fiscal, law enforcement and national security are to me far more important.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Maine needs to get the hell out of America and go to Canada. Take that wacko Steven King with you.
You libs have destroyed every town and state in America with democrats in power. Now your going to destroy America proper.
MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 16, 2009 at 2:34 PM
The republicans didnt listen
they caved in AGAIN as usuall
this is why they got thrown out the first time..
I will NOT VOTE for any republican AGAIN..
WHY should i their the same as the democraps..
jcila on February 16, 2009 at 2:36 PM
To clarify what Goat said, I believe the gay bill she vetoed would have actually restricted benefits to gays employed by the state government… in other words, she went against what you would expect her to support as a social conservative…. because she deemed it unconstitutional.
BPD on February 16, 2009 at 2:37 PM
You are so right!
PrincipledPilgrim on February 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM
These three so called Republicians are nothing but a_ _ kissing lap dogs for Obama. I hope their actions cost them all three their jobs next term. They make me sick, how the heck you vote yes on a bill you haven’t read? Thanks for dumping this debt on us tax paying Americans, IDIOTS!! LOL
salley on February 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I agree. I emailed all three before the vote, imploring them to remember basic conservative values, then again after the vote telling them their careers are over thanks to millions of conservatives disgusted by their betrayals.
Pretty simple stuff.
rrpjr on February 16, 2009 at 3:28 PM
My 3 dogs are more loyal then these senators. My recommendation to Mr. Steele would be not to support them the next time they are up for reelection. It’s going to be a long cold 2 years.
Kissmygrits on February 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Why do most folks need a “big tent”? To house a circus of course! That being the case, those three are definitely necessary. After all, you can’t have a circus without any clowns…
kksluf on February 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I left the democratic taxing state of pennsylvania years ago after watching my parents pay taxes for nothing. Specter or (sphinter) is just a democrat in Republican clothes. The other two are from the widely democratic union of Maine… I agree they should move to canada.
They have brought shame to the Republican party… what did the democrats do to their turncoat (Lieberman), they shunned him.
workingforpigs on February 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM
I remember watching Clinton’s cabinet enter the chamber and always thought that the circus had let them off there to entertain. What a joke they were. I imagine when Obama’s cabinet enters the chamber we will wonder if the cast from Wizard of Oz was delivered.
workingforpigs on February 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM
I have more respect for Collins and the other one because they’ve always been turn coats and the ignorant Maine voters still vote them in. Specter is just a slimebag McLamegramnesty type that’ll sell out their own mother for a job or pork.
MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM
As long as we have a two party system senators that won’t support the party on an obvious vote are not much use. This was a case where there was an obvious choice and they made the totally wrong choice anyway. We can only hope that none of these three get reelected, even to dog catcher.
duff65 on February 16, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Two words. Term Limits.
OwlorNothing on February 16, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Wasn’t this stimulus bill egregious enough? It is apparent that too many of those voting to support this bill had not even read it.
onlineanalyst on February 16, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Two words. Term Limits.
OwlorNothing on February 16, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Term limits are a two edged sword. They throw out the good guys as well as the bad guys.
duff65 on February 16, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Fiscal conservatives by definition prefer lower taxes, limited government, and a balanced budget. By focusing on that aspect of conservatism, the Constitutional responsibility of strong defense and limitations on social engineering take care of themselves. I daresay that it is difficult to find a fiscal hawk who is not also a champion of protecting our Bill of Rights and our right to life.
onlineanalyst on February 16, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Apparently, we’ve forgotten as a country that the Framers intended and expect vigorous debate in our legislative bodies about how laws should be written and enforced. Above all, many of them distrusted the ability of government to do anything better than the individual.
I would really, really, really like to put Reid, Pelosi, Frank, Emmanuel, or even the President up on a stage, give them some copies of the writings of the Framers, and Federalist Papers, and then have them via question/answer demonstrate what they really know about the history of the founding of our Republic.
I maintain, and have always maintained… The further we get away from the original founding principles of this great Republic, the closer we get to realizing the fears that motivated people to flee Europe to come here.
So… Republicans and even conservatives have to decide what we stand for, and what we will not compromise on. The House votes against the bill must be the beginning of a re-thinking and re-formulation of conservatism. Not to reject Reagan, and others who believe in these principles, but to re-affirm that some timeless principles have held since 1775 and still hold true.
mngander92 on February 16, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Before the final vote last week, I tried to call and fax Collins. Her phone wasn’t being answered, her voice mailbox was full and I kept getting ‘communication error’ at her fax number. Nice…
I did manage to get a fax to Specter, but I was out when the vote was called, so it was after the fact. The anger I feel at Collins, Specter and Snowe – who just let nationalised health care in the door because they didn’t have enough sense, intelligence and honour to stand against it – is enormous. It’s almost hatred.
I have someone very close to me who is going to turn 50 in a few years but has a chronic condition. Nothing that was his fault, but in about a decade it will probably cause him some problems. If this health care bureaucracy isn’t reversed, that will be just about when it will hit full stride. Who is going to approve a transplant, cutting edge treatment or what have you for someone near 60?
It’s bad enough people die when you do everything you can for them, but to not offer treatment purposely so they die? It’s beyond terrible, it’s monstrous. It took 3 years for England to reverse its decision that you had to be blind in one eye to quality for a new macular degeneration medicine (if you were elderly); how many people went blind in that little experiment?
linlithgow on February 16, 2009 at 4:48 PM
The path down which we’re heading in the healthcare arena is what scares the crap out of me. I wonder how many ordinary Americans are really going to get the truth on this one so that people rise up against it.
I mean… Maybe we need to accept that having the system we do today is the best bargain we can have between patient choice, a wide range of treatments/drugs, and quick passage through the system when we want to see a doctor and get to a hospital.
If you want to put a floor on the minimum level of performance for any service/good, you must also be willing to accept trade-offs in timeliness, quality, cost, etc. We’re all about to learn that law of economics the hard way.
mngander92 on February 16, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Statistically as determined by income tax returns, social conservatives are more generous to charities. The difference between them and leftists is that social conservatives donate more of their personal mondy and volunteer time; leftists rely on the government to distribute the largesse. The State has no business redistributing personal wealth in order to achieve its visions of social justice.
onlineanalyst on February 16, 2009 at 4:59 PM
If the GOP wants to promote a ‘big-tent’ it should take a page out of the intensity and passion generated at a revival meeting. Instead of watering down its message to make it more palatable, the evangelist usually tailors his/her performance to appeal emotionally to the ‘sinner’ to make the product appear more attractive (in sales terms-reason makes sense, but emotion makes dollars and sense.)
Since 1988 the GOP has been taking the wrong approach, appealing too much to vapid reasoning and diluting its Presidential message to appease to the MSM, elites, egghead pundits, and RINO’s. Both Bush’s are partly to blame but let’s face facts-the party apparatus and the prominent people in the party and fundraisers went along with the plan hook, line, and sinker.
What has that gotten the GOP and America: a radical socialist President who is determined to destroy the fabric of traditional American society and take away the individual’s right to liberty, to make him/her eternally miserable, and to promote a culture of death, not life.
technopeasant on February 16, 2009 at 5:09 PM
onlineanalyst is correct. While they had a much smaller income than the Obamas or the Bidens, 2007 tax returns indicated that Palins contributed more to charity (both in terms of actual dollars and as a percentage of income).
Bidens were especially chinsy, donating less than $1,000.
bw222 on February 16, 2009 at 5:11 PM
There’s not a lot we can do about Collins or Snow right now, but Specter is up for reelection in 2010. We can make an example of him.
bw222 on February 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM
I’ve posted this before, but here it goes again:
Sen. Jim DeMint has sent out letters on behalf of the Senate Conservatives Fund PAC to promote candidates and an agenda that fosters conservatism. Write to and/or donate to the Senate Conservatives Fund; National Processing Center; PO BOX 131568; Houston, TX 77219-1568.
Also, support The Heritage Foundation and Toomey’s Club for Growth.
onlineanalyst on February 16, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Obama’s revenge – ignore at your peril.
Entelechy on February 16, 2009 at 5:22 PM
I think that you’ve assessed the Maine situation well.
PA, too, has a high tax system in place, as well as entrenched union interests, that drives business away. In addition, the liability insurance burden that health care specialists must assume is driving away new doctors and leading others to leave the state or retire early.
If we examine the states and municipalities that are in the red and willing to grab federal dollars, we can be sure that they are Democrat run…for generations.
onlineanalyst on February 16, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Sorry but I honestly think the Three Pork Amigos need to be booted. This isn’t the first time we’ve had problems with them – Specter has been a blight on the Republican’s for years – and we’ve not had the balls to do anything about him. Well now – there’s naught to lose – let’s dump ‘em.
When I say “dump ‘em” … I don’t mean excommunicate them from the party – I mean simply that Michael Steele informs GOP members that no donations to the GOP, or any GOP sponsored committee or PAC will go to the reelection campaigns of the Three Pork Amigos. He should also announce that the GOP will be giving the voters in these two states “other conservative options” in the next election.
HondaV65 on February 16, 2009 at 5:41 PM
President Obama on February 16, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Public Fister
mrfixit on February 16, 2009 at 5:49 PM
watch the helicopter contracts and related contract jobs…
there are $Billions for the 3 senators…
luckybogey on February 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM
You guys just motivated me to send more comments to their senate.gov websites.
Bleed_thelizard on February 16, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Many of these politicians couldn’t get or even qualify for dog catcher outside of government. Term limited politicians are searching for their next job as soon as they get re-elected. Who ever has the job offer will get the vote. If you only need a few votes to pass whatever theirs always someone to take care of you if you take the bullet.
It’s the good ol boys and girls club.
need music any genre malice420.com
MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 16, 2009 at 5:53 PM
W was a good president in fighting terrorists and I appreciate that. But, he was such a loser in other areas…I mean for a republican.
Amnesty, new entitlements, Harriet Myers, inability to articulate a complete sentence…that sort of stuff.
But, one of the worst things W did to us was in the republican primaries in Penn when Specter had a real challenger who was a strong, articulate, intelligent conservative and Bush campaigned on behalf of this loser Specter. So, feel free to blame Bush.
In fact, if Bush wasnt such a chump, half of the crap we are going through would not have happened.
And Snowe may be a hypocrite since she is so against deficit spending when a republican is in office, but Susan Collins is downright stupid. She is our Nancy Pelosi.
The Wall on February 16, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Make an example of Specter? Ha!! Specter will announce his retirement long before the 2010 race. Someone will be appointed to serve out the remainder of his term in order to establish incumbency. Specter will then live the rest of his execrable life in the luxury afforded by the largesse he has accrued over the years from lobbyists and insider deals supplemented by a yearly pension, the amount of which many people never earn during a lifetime of work. It’s the standard D/P (take a dump/take a powder) m.o. of dirty, greedy pols looking to cash out after too many years of “service.”
f---socialism on February 16, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Goat and BPD: Okay, thanks.
Onlineanalyst: Yeah, I actually posted something almost identical in this thread (to jeanie) about the difference. But thank you anyway. :)
Frivolous on February 16, 2009 at 6:39 PM
The Maine pair are hard to figure. Do they really believe in this Bill?was Collins looking for a way to play both sides at once?, is Collins looking for power to make or break bills in the Senate?(which she now apparently has). Since I don’t know, I do not plan to give her the benefit of the doubt. It’s safer to boot the two of them than have to worry about their perpetually selling themselves to the highest bidder. Begone ladies! We’ll get along without you.
jeanie on February 16, 2009 at 6:42 PM
I’m a Maine voter and I would happily put our Blue Dog representative from the 2nd district, Mike Michaud, into Olympia’s seat when it comes up in four years. (Susan has six years to betray us before consequences come due.) Unlike Susan and Olympia, Mike voted against the $700bn “bailout” last fall. However, Maine is a radically liberal state and will probably never nominate a sane Democrat for the Senate. They’ll keep nominating ultra-liberals and keep losing to the pretty-darn-liberal Republican ladies.
joe_doufu on February 16, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Frankly I think they’re just country girls in way over their heads and are probably trusting somebody they think is smarter than them to tell them what to vote for. (I wonder who, I really do.) Every once in a while, Susan appears to have an inkling of principle, but each time it turns out she was just trying to get a little time on TV or an invite to a cocktail party.
joe_doufu on February 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM
After reading the Time article today, it is clear these two women and probably all three turncoats have no allegiance to the GOP, they are all for whoever is courting them, Biden courted Snowe unmercifully, even giving her his home phone number and we now know, Durbin courted Specter at the super bowl party… these three have no core value and the GOP should do the party a favor and send them packing… I’m not so certain Lindsay Graham shouldn’t be right on their heels after his comments on nationalizing the banks yesterday…
Rapunzel on February 16, 2009 at 6:51 PM
How can anybody know a purity message won’t work, when was the last time it was communicated well and earnestly?
RINO office holders are a fact of life that doesn’t mean anything other than they have to adhere to bedrock conservative principles when the chips are down if they don’t its front and center.
Speakup on February 16, 2009 at 6:57 PM
The big tent mentality that you speak of got us in the mess we are looking at. Saying that moderates and RINOs should be openly recruited is foolish. The last election was the pinnacle, the big ten Republicans finally drove the country into the arms of the left.
Conservative’s win elections. We need to seek conservative politicians not just whoever can win the election. Specter is the type of Republican that should be chased out and told to re-register as a Democrat since he acts like one anyway.
thedailyconservative on February 16, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Spend much of my summer in Maine and hear Collins go on and on about how devoted she is to the people of Maine. That’s probably true, but she is not devoted to the GOP or conservative principles(either soc or fisc)and that’s the only use she is to the Party and the country as a whole. Snowe too. Lose nothing by quietly and politely kissing them off nationally. We know they’ll do us in if it works for their goals.
jeanie on February 16, 2009 at 7:04 PM
Whatever the reasons for the votes of these three, they are obviously not fiscal conservative, nor do they belong in the Senate. They must be opposed by the Republican machine, and their opponents need to be supported from all over the country. Bills like this one are only the beginning of the pork yet to come. Consider the up coming health care nationalization as well as the banking nationalization.
daverenkel on February 16, 2009 at 7:13 PM
What these 3 traitors did was akin to shooting an unarmed man in the back. Pelosi & Obama had already stripped the GOP of any power to have any imput, and along came the Traitorus Three to finish the job.
TN Mom on February 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM
I think Ed’s analysis is basically correct. You cannot support a stimulus and say that you’re fiscally conservative. However, you are kidding yourself if you think Maine is going to elect anybody more conservative than what they sent to Washington this time.
radiofreevillage on February 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM
P.S. They didn’t betray anybody. You don’t live in Maine. They don’t represent you. They have abandoned the principles of a fiscal conservative, assuming they had ever subscribed to them.
radiofreevillage on February 16, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Hi Ed,
Referred to you by Joe Gandleman way back when you were at Captain’s Quarters.
“First, the Republicans need to re-establish credibility as the party of fiscal responsibility, and supporting Porkulus is antithetical to that effort. No matter how big a tent the Republicans need to pitch, they still need to stand for core values — and among them should be fiscal responsibility and smaller government for greater individual liberty.”
So let me ask this. To be fiscally responsible is to not spend more than you earning, or in the case of the government, not to spend more than tax revenues (over a budget cycle, say). If you have *not* cut spending, is it fiscally responsible to cut taxes first, as happened over the last eight years, so that the national debt increased $5tr. (And that’s not even counting entitlements) Or said differently, if you do everything you can to cut spending and entitlements and the cumulative deficit (i.e. the debt) is still rising, do you raise taxes?
Robert Bell on February 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Aren’t you self-contradictary here? Can’t touch them but need to find others to take their places? Personally I’m for the tough love of an immediate break with these rat bastard traitors but if you are going the way of finding “credible primary opponents” how do you do that while still supporting them for that illusory and largely toothless threat of an effective filibuster. This bill was the big test and these three failed. Time to cut the losses and make it clear that they are no longer welcome in the big tent.
highhopes on February 16, 2009 at 7:26 PM
We need to stop worrying about these three and concentrate our fire on Democrats in red states and purple states. Here is a list of the seats we have to defend and hopefully pick off three or four of the Dems like Reid, Lincoln and Dorgan.
2.1 Retiring Senators
2.1.1 Ted Kaufman (D) of Delaware
2.1.2 Kit Bond (R) of Missouri
2.1.3 Sam Brownback (R) of Kansas
2.1.4 Judd Gregg (R) of New Hampshire
2.1.5 Mel Martinez (R) of Florida
2.1.6 George Voinovich (R) of Ohio
2.2 Democratic incumbents
2.2.1 Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
2.2.2 Barbara Boxer of California
2.2.3 Michael Bennet of Colorado
2.2.4 Christopher Dodd of Connecticut
2.2.5 Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
2.2.6 Roland Burris of Illinois
2.2.7 Evan Bayh of Indiana
2.2.8 Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
2.2.9 Harry Reid of Nevada
2.2.10 Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
2.2.11 Chuck Schumer of New York
2.2.12 Byron Dorgan of North Dakota
2.2.13 Ron Wyden of Oregon
2.2.14 Patrick Leahy of Vermont
2.2.15 Patty Murray of Washington
2.2.16 Russ Feingold of Wisconsin
2.3 Republican incumbents
2.3.1 Richard Shelby of Alabama
2.3.2 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
2.3.3 John McCain of Arizona
2.3.4 Johnny Isakson of Georgia
2.3.5 Mike Crapo of Idaho
2.3.6 Chuck Grassley of Iowa
2.3.7 Jim Bunning of Kentucky
2.3.8 David Vitter of Louisiana
2.3.9 Richard Burr of North Carolina
2.3.10 Tom Coburn of Oklahoma
2.3.11 Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania
2.3.12 Jim DeMint of South Carolina
2.3.13 John Thune of South Dakota
2.3.14 Bob Bennett of Utah
goat on February 16, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Ditto on Term Limits.
Government should not be large enough where we need professional, lifelong politicians.
Come in and do your civic duty then get the h*ll out, like the patriots used to do.
I’m sick of the Barney Franks and Jhon Murthas, which reminds me: I need to go take a Schumer.
Let’s roll…and boycott Maine for as long as we are affected by the (non)stimulus cr@p.
ex-Democrat on February 16, 2009 at 7:49 PM
I think these three RINOs need to be thrown out of the party so the states of Pennsylvania and Maine will vote in some conservative right wingers in their stead. This country has been trending conservative lately, and, since the GOP is the party of both the youth and our burgeoning minority populations, we can afford to throw a few Republicans out of the party because they only agree with us 70% of the time or so.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 7:51 PM
I agree to go after these, but I respectfully disagree about Snowe, Collins, and Sphincter.
They should be ex-communicated from the Repubes NOW. Not one dime of my money to the GOP/RNC until these traitors are out of the Party.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on February 16, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Open en(t)rollment has its consequences. Another DhimmicratUnderground wanker to play with LOL.
ex-Democrat on February 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Or you could just shoot the messenger. Whatever works for you.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 7:55 PM
The other good shots I see are Roland Burris of course if he is still around. Michael Bennet of Co. is a relative unknown there. A couple long shots to pick off would be Boxer and Dodd.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 7:51 PM
So the night courses really are working out for you?
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 8:03 PM
We must first fix the problems with the product and show that the product has a purpose before we attempt to sell the product. The Dems purged the radical leftist Joe Lieberman from their party for not being leftist enough and have done nothing but win elections ever since.
Buddahpundit on February 16, 2009 at 8:05 PM
First off those of us conservatives knew these three would betray America . In fact if Lincoln Chafee was still in the Senate He’d be the fourth. As Conservatives we don’t need RINO’s like that. The GOP has hit bottom and for the most part Republicans have shined during this JOKE of a stimulus Bill.
In days, weeks and months ahead it will be hard to hide piece of crap called a Bill. It is a cauldron of the worst in corrupt pork barrel spending and a 40 year socialist wish list.
Bottom line Republicans have begun the arduous task of re-emerging as the common sense, small government , strong defense Party that we’ve been in the past.
Its time for Conservative Republicans to challenge these RINOs for their seats in 2010. Maybe Lynn Swann should make a primary run against Specter.
GEEVEE50 on February 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM
ex-Democrat on February 16, 2009 at 7:51 PM
I understand your frustration and take it to the NRSC not the RNC. The RNC has to support and recruit GOP candidates at local and state levels not just the federal. The National Republican Senatorial Committee is the one to gripe to about the traitorous trio its their realm not Steele’s and the RNC.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM
They lost to Joe Lieberman, didn’t they?
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 8:08 PM
We just need to find the middle ground on abortion so can attract all those fabled “centrists”.
I’m thinking something along the lines of only chopping-up half of the baby’s brain, that might do it.
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 8:15 PM
Buddahpundit on February 16, 2009 at 8:05 PM
They didn’t purge Lieberman, he left them and he still won re-election and still caucuses with them. The main reason is procedural for not expelling them from the party immediately. We will have a shot at Specter next year and a very good one at that and lets say we manage to pick up the 9 seats we need now to regain the majority and that includes Collins and Snowe. We get to set the rules and have committee control. The Maine sisters aren’t up till ’12 and ’14 anyway so why worry about them until then? We need to concentrate on what we can do next year to increase our numbers and not screaming bloody murder to reduce them further.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 8:21 PM
The blue blood country club republicans will never stand for conservatism in their ranks. Most are as bad as the stupid democraps. To hell with the GOP. They have earned their minority position in the Congress, and they wear it well.
Zorro on February 16, 2009 at 8:21 PM
I’ve made this argument many times….
The RNC must back a conservative in the PA primary against Specter. He narrowly won his last primary and is vulnerable, and there is a chance PA would go for a conservative in 2010.
Maine is another story. It is a pretty solid blue state, and if Snowe or Collins were ever to lose or retire, they’d be replaced by liberal Democrats. And they win every election in a landslide. They may not be reliable, but we can do a lot worse. We can at least count on them to help block the really crazy legislation, like the Fairness Doctrine (should it be done through the legislature) or card check.
But I would have guessed they’d help block the porkulus also, so it could be an interesting few years here…
doug1981 on February 16, 2009 at 8:26 PM
What we can do is tell Michael Steele and John Cornyn, Chairmen of the RNC and the RNSC, that if any of their money goes to Specter, Collins, or Snowe, no monies go to their organizations.
Find out who’s going to challenge these three in the primaries (Specter is up in 2010 and Rick Santorum and Pat Toomey comes to mind; Snowe in 2012 and Collins in 2014).
For those of you who think it’s better to have RINOs in those seats, I say better to have principles and values then betrayal.
David in San Diego on February 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM
This is a false choice, really…. you are assuming that lowering taxes causes a decrease in tax revenue, and an increase in taxes would cause an increase in tax revenue. This is the classic liberal fallacy, and a viewpoint constantly pushed by the media. History paints a different picture. Tax rate cuts lead to an INCREASE in federal tax revenue. Why? Two reasons. 1) Money is more efficiently allocated in the private sector, which increases the velocity of the money supply (how often it gets turned over), 2) Tax decreases have been shown to simulate the economy and spur job creation. End result: lower tax rate but more tax payers.
Look at the 2003 Bush tax cuts. The cuts did NOT result in a reduction of tax revenue. Rather, tax revenue increased significant. According to the CBO, individual income taxes netted 794 billion dollars in 2003. 4 years laters, individual income taxes netted 1044 billion dollars…. an increase of 31% over 4 years. In its proper context of percentage of GDP, tax revenue increased from 7.3% of GDP to 8% of GDP, meaning tax revenue growth exceeded the growth of the economy at large.
The REAL problem during the Bush administration was NOT tax cuts… rather, it was out of control spending and the misplacement of the Veto pen.
BPD on February 16, 2009 at 8:32 PM
I would like nothing more than to see these three lose their seats humiliatingly.
muyosoisback on February 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Not necessarily betrayal. Maybe it’s a political vote; Porkys 3 was going to pass anyway. Maybe the RINOs actually thought it was a good idea. Maybe they just disagree with you.
You know, you could compromise your principles and values a little bit and then we could actually regain majorities in both houses and get a Republican in the WH, but you’d apparently rather be a permanent minority that never accomplishes anything. At least you’ll be able to feel good about yourself and your principles and values as Democrats spend us into oblivion.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 8:15 PM
I am against abortion and gay marriage but we need candidates that can talk about a lot more than just those issues. Most of the electorate just doesn’t put much priority in those issues so making them a focus just turns off a lot of people that might have been persuadable to our other positions on the economy, law and order and national security. Like it or not abortion is going to be with us for a very long time and the best way to combat it is through counseling at crisis pregnancy centers not through politics.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM
BPD on February 16, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Great points and welcome to Hot Air.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM
According to Senator Mark Begich, there were a couple of other RINOs who larded up the bill with over $110 billion in pork while the bill was in committee, then symbolically voted against it.
Jim62sch on February 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM
According to at least one Alaskan, Senator Mark Begich can get bent.
BPD on February 16, 2009 at 8:53 PM
David in San Diego on February 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Like I have said we should be concentrating on where we can increase our numbers next year and quit screaming to cut our numbers now. We have a good shot at Specter next year but we just need to ignore the Maine twits till their turns come up. Even then we may need them for procedural reasons if we regain a majority that includes them to keep it.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Jim62sch on February 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM
From what I understand the GOP including the RINO’s were largely locked out of the committee. Begich was not there either so how would he know.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Begich is a Democrat.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Yes and no. I mean, what did they lose? If Specter, Collins and Snowe run as Independents or Democrats and win re-election, what will the Republicans have lost?
Lol at “Proud Rino”. You know, most of your fellow Rinos are in denial about their rinoism the way liberals deny being liberals. I give you credit for being forthright about it.
Buddahpundit on February 16, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Buddah They lost a reliable seat in the Senate, and they’re required to play nice with Lieberman in order to get him to go along with a lot of what they agree with. In a state trending blue in a blue part of the country, Republicans have a senator that endorsed the Republican candidate and spoke at the Republican convention. If Lieberman wasn’t so profoundly unlikable, he’d be one of the best characters the GOP has – a guy who can split with his party at any time for any reasons and always be seen as having an absolute moral authority. The same way Democrats use McCain/Specter/Lobster Ladies.
It’s much better for Republicans to have Lieberman over Lamont, and it’s much better for Democrats to have an alienated Arlen Specter than an Arlen Specter caucusing with Republicans. That’s what I think, anyway. What do I know?
I should explain about the name. I’m an independent. I don’t know where I am on the spectrum and I don’t care. I just figured I’d preempt everyone by calling myself what they’re going to call me anyway.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I thought the three stooges were retired…
BillaryMcBush on February 16, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Obama let his flunkies in Congress construct a “vote buying for 2010/2012 bill” disguised as an “economic stimulus” package.
The cataleptically-indifferent Obama-sucking MSM has no interest in scrutinizing the corrupt details of this economic disaster and political farce.
Instead of being a dynamic, inventive, positive, cheerful FDR-figure who GOT JOBS GOING FAST, Obama is dithering, flim-flamming, pandering, hemming and hawing and showing himself to be a do-nothing, essentially-uninvolved, uninformed, babbling, blustering buffoon.
profitsbeard on February 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM
Joe Lieberman is a nice guy and he understands who the enemy we are fighting is, ie the islamo-nazis, but he is not remotely conservative in any other area. That is somewhat puzzling given that he is a devout Jew.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 9:38 PM
profitsbeard on February 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM
++10
goat on February 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM
-10
Say what you will about Obama, but he has gotten a lot more done (I can’t say accomplished) a lot faster than FDR. Who knows whether it will be effective or necessary (I think it will be an epic, epic fail but who knows) but basically the entire New Deal was voted down by the SCOTUS for FDR’s first four years in office. It was only until the blowout election of 1936, the retirement of a couple conservative justices, and Justice Roberts’s mind magically changing that the New Deal began to get passed and Roosevelt actually started getting New Deal legislation to hold up in Court.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 9:44 PM
It does not matter how many people that you have got in the party, if they always vote against you.
Johan Klaus on February 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t more Republican defections in the future given the President Obama’s rising popularity. I’m a die-hard Republican, but I have to admit that there’s something compelling about the man.
Atlanta Voter on February 16, 2009 at 9:52 PM
So, do you think that it would be alright to just rob a small store instead of a bank?
Johan Klaus on February 16, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Proud Rino at 9:44 PM-
The U.S. in 1933 was teetering toward chaos and FDR calmed the incipient hysteria with a common sensical attitude and “moxie” that got the CCC and other make-work efforts moving, and turned an extremely desperate and even despairing people away from being prey to cunning communists and fascists who were beating their drums in the backround.
Obama has merely talked down the economy, smiled and waved, and provided no show of LEADERSHIP.
Ramming through a pork-laden socialistic mess is hardly comparable to uplifting the heavy hearts of a despondent nation and cheerfully experimenting with ways to get the work force ACTIVATED.
Half of defeating the harrowing situation we face is through a commanding presence and a show of competence.
Obama commands a doggie bag at a Chicago restaurant and forces a vote on a bill… which he then waits four days to sign.
Mr. Maybe-in-Chief.
profitsbeard on February 16, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Actually Obama’s ratings are sinking fast and the GOP has pulled even with the Democraps in the generic poll. I will now call you MOBY 1
goat on February 16, 2009 at 10:09 PM
“An illusory chance of filibustering legislation”? Really, are we that morally bankrupt that we’re willing to have enemy sympathizers in our camp just to have a bigger head count? I thought the Democrats were the party of quotas. Get rid of the 3 bums. I’d rather lose the seats than have traitors in my midst.
chicagojedi on February 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Dang how many trolls ran through the open door, did Kos or somebody send out and invade alert?
goat on February 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Strip them of ranking status in any and all committees in which they are found, especially judiciary for our embarrassment Arlen S.
mongo17368 on February 16, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Atlanta Voter on February 16, 2009 at 9:52 PM
I will add that style of posting doesn’t get past the stinkometer around these parts we’ve seen too much of it. Admit you’re a rabib Obamabut and have at it but don’t try the life long Republican BS line on us, we don’t buy it.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Johan – Jobs stimulus packages are not illegal. That’s a false analogy if I’ve ever seen one. These are just different ways of
ruiningrunning things, neither of which is criminal. You’re going to turn a lot of centrists like myself into third party voters/Democrats if you insist on ideological purity from all Republicans. Democrats have pro-lifers, pro Iraq War, pro gun, and pro tax cuts in their ranks, but you’re willing to toss out Arlen Specter so the 38 Republicans you have left in 2010 agree on everything. That’s atrocious.Profitsbeard – First, sorry. My earlier response played a little fast and loose with the facts. -10 for me. Nonetheless, your praise of FDR and criticism of Obama is all based on your personal perception of how each man led/leads. Fair enough, but someone can easily turn around and say “Obama is a commanding presence and FDR is a loser.” I mean, say what you will about Obama thus far but he’s definitely gotten a lot of things done. And, again, you may not like him but I can tell you Pres. Obama has gotten a lot of people very excited who might not have been otherwise.
I’m not comparing Obama to FDR – time will tell where Obama ends up and it’s unrealistic to think Obama will be ranked that high, but it’s unrealistic to say that Obama’s first month in office has been this massive failure.
Proud Rino on February 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM
No consecutive terms. One term at a time, with someone else getting elected after one term. Then if they convince the voters they are great they can run again . . . for one term at a time.
Plus it would be nice to “fix” the benefits packages they get too.
txtrte on February 16, 2009 at 10:20 PM
mongo17368 on February 16, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Now I agree with that as punishment, besides Specter at Judiciary I don’t know if Collins and Snowe sit on any important committees in any key role.
goat on February 16, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Meh. I have no idea what’s wrong with those three. Every day I keep wondering what mental disorder causes them to support such crappy things, despite being Republicans. I’m sorry; I don’t mean to offend anybody, but well, that is what I think.
Achilles on February 16, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Looking to prove my juice for my first comment Hot Air? As a avid reader, and a happy future contributor, in my first post I apologized to my children for the fact this bill passed over all my phone calls, e-mails and faxes to these RINOs for selling them out to our debt keepers. Probably China, of which I worked for for over 4 years and have a valid view on the culture, allow me please the opportunity to help, espouse my views and possibly help organize a positive movement to shut it down before it does unreconcilible
damage to our Constitution. We’re in this together. Your Fellow American and With All Due Respect, seesalrun
Please don’t post this – just allow me to comment. Thanks.
seesalrun on February 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next »