Squiggly It looks like you should too!

DustyGreen on February 17, 2009 at 11:45 AM

You didn’t read what I said, did you? I asked a question and you get riled. Why so touchy?

Sheebe you are right, ignore squiggy. There have been a few really interesting studies in the last few years that reinforce the born gay stance.
The one I found most interesting was that the more biological older brothers one has the more likely you are to be gay (nature). It has nothing to do with being raised with older brothers (nurture). In the study they included people who had been raised alone sepereatly from their older biological kin (adoption) and boys who grew up with older brothers who where not genetically related (step brothers, adoption etc)as well as typical nuclear families.
What they found is that important factor in determining if someone is likely to be gay is that someone is carried in a womb that has already carried male fetus’.
Why is this relevant, well it suggests that homosexuality is likley to be a prenatal effect.One possibility is a maternal immune response to succeeding male fetuses. The mother may react to a male fetus as foreign but not to a female fetus because the mother is also female. The likelihood of this reaction increases with each sucessive male fetus increasing the likelihood of being gay. While it is possible to have the effect with the first male fetus it is more likely with succesive one since a woman’s body “learns” from past pregnancies.
One of these “brother studies” was done by Anthony F. Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines, if you want to look it up.
Squiggly It looks like you should too!

Most alcoholics are born with an uncontrollable pre-disposition to drink heavily, and are unable to stop. By your logic, not drinking is not being true to themselves. Sobriety is not who they really are, and it’s wrong to try to be what you’re not. So just accept them, and don’t you dare look down on the winos.

Does this make sense?

Born gay or turned gay is not a valid argument. Whether or not it’s good for you is. I’m open to an argument about the inherent “goodness” of homosexuality. Let me have it………..

Squiggy on February 17, 2009 at 6:14 AM

Squiggy, I am not going to argue with you or anyone else? Are you gay? My son is and I knew he was when he was a baby. I have met parents for years that felt the same thing. I didn’t say it is good to be gay. They wish they weren’t. (Some gays). Some gays don’t understand why they are gay. Then again you have some that were straight then turned gay. Just like drunks. I just get tired of hearing hypocrites claim that all gays are against God. There are your full on radical gays, but then there are many gays that do go to church. I don’t go to church. A building with a bunch of people is not my cup of tea. One can have faith in God without having to herd with sheep. I am not saying one has to accept them. You read with a twisted way. You or others as well is me, are not God. We know our Bibles and we read about how God feels about Gays. We are the sinners. The Gays have to live with who they are. As we have to live with who we are. There are some Gays that are not screaming fowl. In the end, we as well as them Gay, a Alcoholic, drug addict and so on will answer.

A: the absence of a scientific understanding of the natural world hundreds(Incas)and thousands(Romans,Vikings) of years ago inevitably leads to the belief in a creator (how else could the world exist).
B: it is impossible for the vast majority of the humanity (myself included) to comprehend that at death you simply cease to be, that your consciousness, your self awareness is simply gone into nothing. It is very much easier to believe that after you die your consciousness (soul if you like) travels to another plane of immortal existence than try to comprehend and accept complete and utter nonexistence.

The fact that so many completely different mythologys have been created throughout time by different civilisation independent of eachother with these two points central to each for me at least is proof enough that heaven, god etc is all make believe like santa if not infinitely more interesting anthropologically . To reference the great writer Oolon Colluphid “Well that about raps it up for God”.

Btw i dont mean any of this as a denegration of religious faith these are simply my beliefs and counter arguements are welcome…. oh and taking it back to the survey i was raised irish catholic(in Ireland no less) and was forced to go to church every week until i was 14, i still go Christmas and Easter for my grandmother.

Most gays are born gay.

There is no hard evidence which supports this claim. Even Camille Paglia, who is gay herself, believes that this “gays are born that way” idea is total PC rubbish.

The question is often asked whether being gay is inborn or a choice, as if those are the only 2 options. Some believe (Paglia included) that sexual orientation develops out of psychological and enviromental factors during early childhood. Not exactly what you’d call a choice but not something that can be called inborn.

Many gay activists don’t like this. They prefer to insist that homosexuality is inborn because they feel it takes the issue off the table as a moral concern.

Do those who insist homosexuality is inborn also think pedophilia is inborn? I’m not drawing a moral equivalence here between homosexuality and pedophilia, all I’m saying is that our sexual inclinations are either inborn or they’re not. If the mere presence of a sexual inclination makes it “natural” then we have to be willing to take that argument to it’s logical conclusion and say that pedophilia is natural.

I’m not a gay basher here. I have gay friends and believe that whether gay or straight we are all human beings deserving of dignity and respect. I’m just tired of all the PC BS where statements like “people are born gay” become orthodoxy absent any logic, evidence or facts.

Christian Conservatives, like myself, do not feel this is a legitimate lifestyle choice and should not be codified into our nations laws!

sabbott on February 17, 2009 at 6:04 AM

Bull. Iranian execution squads don’t feel it’s a legitimate lifestyle choice. Are you saying conservatives feel the same?

Born gay or turned gay is not a valid argument. Whether or not it’s good for you is. I’m open to an argument about the inherent “goodness” of homosexuality. Let me have it………..

Squiggy on February 17, 2009 at 6:14 AM

For people who are gay they benefit from the stability that committed relationships provide. They find the alternatives of living in a straight relationship or living alone less rewarding.

Ed Morrissey might want to comment on this, since he and Allahpundit made the determination and deleted Olaf’s causative comment before I had a chance to read it.

unclesmrgol on February 17, 2009 at 4:39 AM

What are you talking about? They didn’t delete anything. It’s still there.

Go sober up and try again. My question was with respect to the tables shown in the lead post.

P.S. Lack of religiosity is definitely a positive quality in my book. So if anything, I’m anti-you.

radiofreevillage on February 17, 2009 at 1:07 AM

I’m neither drunk, nor am I theistic. I’m agnostic. Try again, junior.

I know of no real conservatives who are pro gay rights! Gay rights is not a conservative issue! Conservatives do not view this as a civil rights issue! Christian Conservatives, like myself, do not feel this is a legitimate lifestyle choice and should not be codified into our nations laws!
sabbott on February 17, 2009 at 6:04 AM

About 20 states have laws preventing employment discrimination against gay people. If you look at the trend over the past 40 years there is an increased recognition of gay people in law.

Most gays are born gay. Get a clue and quit sounding like you are God.

sheebe on February 17, 2009 at 1:14 AM

Most alcoholics are born with an uncontrollable pre-disposition to drink heavily, and are unable to stop. By your logic, not drinking is not being true to themselves. Sobriety is not who they really are, and it’s wrong to try to be what you’re not. So just accept them, and don’t you dare look down on the winos.

Does this make sense?

Born gay or turned gay is not a valid argument. Whether or not it’s good for you is. I’m open to an argument about the inherent “goodness” of homosexuality. Let me have it………..

We have conservatives who are pro and anti abortion.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti gay rights.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti education.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti immigration.
We have conservatives who think some form of stimulus to the economy is needed, and others that think it is unneeded.

I know of no real conservatives who are pro gay rights! Gay rights is not a conservative issue! Conservatives do not view this as a civil rights issue! Christian Conservatives, like myself, do not feel this is a legitimate lifestyle choice and should not be codified into our nations laws!

I know of no conservatives who are “anti-education”! We are, however anti-”liberal education” which is currently dumbing down our kids and teaching them nonsense including Global Warming and Political Correctness with no balancing view point!

Conservatives are not anti-immigration! Just anti-illegal immigration! Why is that hard to understand…oh yea…it isn’t!

Conservatives are anti-stimulus by the Government…every time! Unless the stimulus is to get money in the hands of taxpayers through less spending by the taxing authorities! Increased spending by government NEVER EVER works to stimulate an economy! It has never worked! It will never work! EVER!

Religiously, that sort of brutality isn’t something Christians (or at least Catholics) should be celebrating, but morally, I suspect most of them would find it oh so sweet. And rightly so.

I’m supposed to turn my other cheek, for offenses against me. I don’t have to do that for people who would kill my children (or kill you Allah, for that matter). That’s not vengeance. That’s justice. That’s Godly.

Maybe you’re being simplistic for the sake of brevity, but being a conservative means something. You make it appear that conservatives are all over the map. Your experience may certainly be different from mine, but in my experience with the conservatives I know there is a set of values that define us and they are pretty common. Some (mostly pundits and bloggers) call themselves conservatives but really aren’t.
Most conservatives value life and at worst try to be neutral on abortion.
We are not anti gay rights, we are pro marriage and anti special rights for alternate lifestyles.
Anti education??? Certainly anti liberal indoctrination.
We are most certainly not anti immigration. We are anti illegal immigration. Do not confuse the two.
We generally believe that the private sector can maintain itself without onerous government intervention and that economic downturns are natural and self-correcting when allowed to do so.
If we water down the definition of conservative like we’ve watered down the definition of Republican, then what the hell does any of it mean?

We cannot afford to fight each other at this time.

Christian Conservative on February 16, 2009 at 8:00 PM

We do have separation of Church and State, so, if we are talking about politics, fine. But just within the confines of our own discussions here, there are quite a few schismatic thoughts.

We have conservatives who are pro and anti abortion.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti gay rights.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti education.
We have conservatives who are pro and anti immigration.
We have conservatives who think some form of stimulus to the economy is needed, and others that think it is unneeded.

You name the issue, and you’ll find a conservative who disagrees with you on that issue, but agrees with you on a whole bunch of other issues.

Liberals are far better at subordinating their varied interests for the group, while we conservatives are somewhat rugged individualists who don’t do that very well.

The people in the center want a bit of both, and they are the people who tip elections one way or the other. I doubt the Democrats will hold onto the power they have now for more than one term; I don’t think we will be wandering in the desert for 40 years like they did — maybe 20 at most (the length of FDR’s legacy).

What religion is Olaf anyway…I was never really clear on that…

JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Olaf is (was?) a Byzantine Catholic.

Did he get banned?

Skidd on February 16, 2009 at 8:01 PM

Yes. I’m not sure why, but I think it was for rather blatant anti-Semitism. Ed Morrissey might want to comment on this, since he and Allahpundit made the determination and deleted Olaf’s causative comment before I had a chance to read it.

Not to sound uppitty, but I only consider the scriptures(Bible) when making moral decisions. That’s the final authority. Anything else, and you are playing God

congma on February 16, 2009 at 8:47 PM

2Pet 1:20: This then you must understand first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

When you attempt to privately interpret Scripture in making moral decisions, you are indeed “playing God”.

2 Pet 3:16-17: And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

What is Peter getting at here?

Consider that even the most devout were unable to properly interpret Scripture until Jesus opened their minds:

Luke 24:44-45: He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.”

Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

So, as you consider Scripture, how do you know you are interpreting it properly? How do you know that Jesus has opened your mind? How do you check your personal instinct to distort the Word?

Proverbs 24:5-6: A wise man is more powerful than a strong man, and a man of knowledge than a man of might; for it is by wise guidance that you wage your war, and the victory is due to a wealth of counselors.

Is it just me or are the Jews basically not religious on any meaningful scale?

radiofreevillage on February 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Somewhere around 35% of Jewry consider themselves within the Orthodox Jewish category.

To me, my religion provides backbone. It’s just something that is with me. That said, when it comes to something like homosexuality, I use common sense. I’ve said here before that I am a nurture, not nature, believer. Gays rant against Christians because it is the easy thing to do. It takes the conversation away from science, which to this day, has never proved nature over nurture.

Connie on February 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM

A tad of an ignorant statement here. There are many gays in my town that go to church. They do not rant against Christians. You act like you are God. Most gays are born gay. Get a clue and quit sounding like you are God.

No, it’s just you. It’s called anti-semitism.

Go sober up and try again. My question was with respect to the tables shown in the lead post.

P.S. Lack of religiosity is definitely a positive quality in my book. So if anything, I’m anti-you.

radiofreevillage on February 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM

No, it’s just you. It’s called anti-semitism.

because just like in europe, the governent is playing god, and why bother to go through all the trouble of asking the real God for something, when He may say NO…when you can go the government and whine loudly, and get what you want??
its the whole reason behind socialism…the desire for the government to be god…
right4life on February 16, 2009 at 7:35 PM

Funny, I recall a Marxist saying this very thing:
“Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.” ~ Antonio Gramsci