Poll: Most believers don’t look to religion first when making moral decisions
posted at 5:08 pm on February 16, 2009 by Allahpundit
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The data’s a year old but it’s been freshly mined by Gene Expression. Nothing too surprising, but it’s fun to compare sects. My favorite thought experiment in this vein is to wonder how most religious Americans would react to news that U.S. troops had cornered Bin Laden in some outhouse in Afghanistan and beat him to death with their rifle butts. Religiously, that sort of brutality isn’t something Christians (or at least Catholics) should be celebrating, but morally, I suspect most of them would find it oh so sweet. And rightly so.
Note how closely aligned Catholics, Jews, and mainline Protestants are, and alternatively how close evangelicals are to Mormons — a bitter irony for the Mittheads, given the conservative base’s issues with him. Think those trends are unique to this question? Try these three on for size, all taken from the same 2008 Pew poll:
Buddhists, unsurprisingly, are exceptionally mellow. Exit question: What explains the fact that Catholics are so much more centrist than evangelicals and Mormons? Is it … this?
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Yay !! Another, ‘Let’s put religious faith under the microscope’ thread !!!!!
These are really neat !!! They accomplish a lot !!!!!
…and the part about Muslims relying so much on ’science’ is a hoot.
Janos Hunyadi on February 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM
You don’t need to consult a book to know what’s right.
I spent my K-8 years in a Catholic school. I think that’s partially the reason, but I think it’s more to do with the fact that people look at Catholic stereotypes and apply them accordingly, when they are quite inaccurate. In my time, I’ve met more evangelicals that are far more ready to jump on the crusade bandwagon. As for the Mormons…eh.
MadisonConservative on February 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Poll: Most believers use religion before science when making moral decisions.
Skywise on February 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Right, and we’re also not supposed to support the Death Penalty even though most do. I don’t understand why you write these things even though I know Christians have explained why the two, a belief in punishment and a belief in God, are not mutually exclusive.
Also, this poll is ridiculous. Not every situation is even outlined in the Bible, so to consult it every time rather than using your own brain is counter productive and counter intuitive.
Esthier on February 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Comrades:
THIS IS TODAY’S TWO MINUTE HATE.
OhEssYouCowboys on February 16, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Their religious beliefs have become part of their subconscious, their instinct if you will. They may not identify their religion specifically when answering these questions.
echosyst on February 16, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Jehovah Witness, don’t they go by a different name now? And how come they always come to the door when i am cooking dinner.
MDWNJ on February 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Catholicism and Judaism have cultural components while Protestantism usually does not.
BklynNY on February 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Could it be geographic location? Do Catholics skew more to blue states than Evangelicals or Mormons?
dedalus on February 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Wow…a big slab of the reddest of meats…
No. We Catholics just know better.
I’m kinda surprised that the number for Evangelicals is so low on the question of Political decisions based on faith.
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:18 PM
“MDWNJ on February 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM”
um, no, i don’t think they’ve handed over money to a “branding expert” for that …
/eyeroll
Buckaroo on February 16, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Why do you do these things to us, Allah?
AbaddonsReign on February 16, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Huh? I’d love to hear an explanation, so I can heap the proper derision.
peski on February 16, 2009 at 5:24 PM
I’m not sure how this represents anything other than common sense. Am. Jews and Catholics have a history of picking and choosing which “rules” they intend to follow. (Don’t really know mainline Protestants–they’re the ones without Jesus in the church right?)
Also, when the headline says “believers,” I don’t believe that. I think they just mean people who identify as belonging to one religion or another as a matter of birth.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Explain.
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Meaning they know how to separate church and state.
Nonfactor on February 16, 2009 at 5:27 PM
They do accomplish a lot. They contribute to the much needed realization that conservatism doesn’t have to be based on ancient superstitions.
radiofreevillage on February 16, 2009 at 5:27 PM
I could have sworn they changed their name, cause i had two guys come to the house and try talking to me about converting, and saving my soul. They also are all called Brother Fred, or something like that. Maybe they were not JW’s.
MDWNJ on February 16, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Actually, it’s pretty clear
peski on February 16, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Where there is Socialism, there is the establishment of atheism. As Europe has gone, so goes America.
God must be eliminated, in order for the State to control the People. The public schools have been targetted for this purpose. Socialism always targets the children.
OhEssYouCowboys on February 16, 2009 at 5:29 PM
So if video of Osama being beaten to death with rifle butts were shown to Allah, and he said “Oh my GOD!” while watching it, what would that mean?
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Who is to say where one’s religion ends and one’s philosophy begins? Religious beliefs are often quite deep and foundational. It sounds odd to me to ask people when people consult religion to make moral decisions, as opposed to “philosophy”, or “common sense”. These things are very interdependent, and to some extent impossible to separate.
maleman on February 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM
I am a libertarian and a devout Christian, but I don’t feel the need to wear my religion on my sleeve. Of course, my decisions are based on my beliefs, but I don’t always stop to ask “WWJD?” I simply know what constitutes a good or bad decision. I suspect that even atheists have some kind of “moral compass” that tells them what is right and wrong. Polls like this do nothing but foster stereotypes and ridiculous notions about religion. I’m sick of people trying to dissect religious belief as if it were a worm in a biology class. Truth be told, there are many religious people who aren’t even sure why they believe what they believe, but it doesn’t make them any more or less intelligent or thoughtful than anyone else.
College Prof on February 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Obviously you were just waiting for a place to put that, but you picked the wrong spot.
Well, Mormons also go door to door.
Esthier on February 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM
And those that would dare to raise their own children.
Maquis on February 16, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Because he loves to see people that believe in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ fight with each other.
My exit question to Allah is: When hundreds of millions of people sunddenly vanish. Are you going to believe they were abducted by aliens or some kind man made fairy tale?
Be_Aware on February 16, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Look at the way we live, our popular media choices. This is not a Christian (i.e., Christ-following, Christ-obeying) country.
jgapinoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Are there hundreds of millions trusting in Jesus?
jgapinoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Sorry. Should have looked at that info. What surprised me was AP’s comments linking Jews and Catholics. So very few Am. Jews are believers, yet almost all call themselves Jews. I know many Catholics who claim the religion, but not in any religious way. So I knew that the number of real Jewish believers was tiny, (and suspect the same is true for some Catholics) which would make AP’s comment less significant than it sounded.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Given how little most people know about their religion, I wonder how self-deluded are the people who claim to base their moral decisions on their religion. I’m not even shocked when I encounter fundamentalist Christians who can’t name the four Gospels, or Jews who go to temple every week and yet don’t understand a single word of Hebrew.
thuja on February 16, 2009 at 5:36 PM
My exit question to Allah is: When hundreds of millions of people sunddenly vanish. Are you going to believe they were abducted by aliens or some kind man made fairy tale?
Be_Aware on February 16, 2009 at 5:33 PM
That will probably happen in the near future. It will occur via nuclear blast but the people will still have vanished.
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 5:37 PM
appro. 1 billion around the world
Be_Aware on February 16, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Secular,Reformed, Conservative, Orthodox Jews
Cafeteria Catholics
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Yep, Catholics are less devout.
However, this is a very dumb poll. Most people who grew up religious have religious teaching ingrained in them. Whether they know it or not, they are including their religious teaching when making a moral decision.
jimmy the notable on February 16, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Houston, we have rapture talk! Has St. Olaf returned?
MadisonConservative on February 16, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Actually, twice that. 2 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims.
MadisonConservative on February 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Bull.
Sure…I suppose every faith has their “cafeteria” variety…but don’t throw such a wide blanket on everybody.
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Today’s Religious put down brought to you by Jobo Wheel Bearings the bearings with the “Smoothest ride” & the Letter “Z”.
portlandon on February 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM
It’s a stupid question…
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Rival-Versions-Moral-Enquiry/dp/0268018715
ninjapirate on February 16, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Alot of Jews and Catholics, such as Irish Catholics, identify as such for cultural/ethnic reasons rather than just religious reasons whereas I assume most evangelical Protestants do not.
BklynNY on February 16, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Even people who grew up without religion in their immediate families are influenced by the community around them, a community that has strong religious influences. I think the poll is dumb too.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:42 PM
I wonder what the US armed forces would look like if a “Christian Rapture” would happen? Oh yeah. It would look like the UN troops. Oh Crap.
portlandon on February 16, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Won’t need the carpool lanes any more.
peski on February 16, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Since morality and common sense were extant long before the advent of the Bible, or any organized religion for that matter, it seems only natural that people will search their own brain before picking someone else’s.
OldEnglish on February 16, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Catholics are simply like any other mainline Christian denomination when it comes to general cultural attitudes. Most Catholics, like most mainline Protestant denominations and Jews, are “cultural Christians” (or “cultural Jews”) more than true believers. They take part in a number of religious traditions but otherwise don’t let it interfere with their daily life.
What you see in this data is simply the split between “cultural faiths” and “true believers.” Obviously, this is painting with a broad brush, but as a former mainline Protestant, now a born-again Evangelical, I know of which I speak.
PersonalLiberty on February 16, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Nice way to insult our soldiers in uniform, you prick.
MadisonConservative on February 16, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Honestly, I don’t know if every faith has their cafeteria variety. I live in NY. The Catholics around me are by and large of the cafeteria kind. I’m not trying to paint a picture of the entire Catholic community; just the one I know and see in the liberal NE, and even among my own extended family members who are Catholic.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:45 PM
I figured as much. Only evanglos are pure believers, the rest are cultural sheep. Baaahhhh.
peski on February 16, 2009 at 5:46 PM
I’m never at a loss for being amazed how born-again Evangelicals harbor such anti-Catholic views.
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:47 PM
What else can be said than most religious people are easily-led morons who need a fairy-tale to prop up their empty lives.
*This comment has been paid for by the administrators of Pajamas Media-less Hot Air, and in no way reflect the views of the poster making the comment*
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 5:47 PM
I guess I’m a
0|33|33|33|0
kind of guy.
TheSitRep on February 16, 2009 at 5:48 PM
I just got a tingle up my leg….
sonofdy on February 16, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Someone’s been drinking from the same Koolaid bowl.
peski on February 16, 2009 at 5:49 PM
JiangxiDad is right. Sadly there has been a war going on within the Catholic Church itself for several decades. Many people who claim to be Catholic are cultural or cafeteria Catholics. Many of them have almost no clue what the Church teachings are. However, there is a smaller group of Catholics who takes the teachings seriously and tries to live by them. They may not wear it on their sleeve but it shows in their actions and the way they look at the world.
rapunzel77 on February 16, 2009 at 5:49 PM
This poll is a little ridiculous, and little should be concluded by it. For instance, the first question asks, “What do you look for MOST when…”
The bottom line is most Christians use all of these to make a decision. Of course I use religion to dictate my decisions, but I also look at common sense, science, and philosophy. Does this make me less of a Christian. No. It just means God gave me a brain and intended on me using it.
dpape100 on February 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Fair enough. You’re just not looking in the right places I guess. Thing is, even us Church-going Catholics aren’t of the bible-thumping Evangelical/Fundamentalist crowd. Our faith is more of a personal thing.
I just don’t like it (and I’m not saying you do it) when those predisposed to anti-Catholicism lob criticism at the Church.
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 5:51 PM
No, I am Irish and identify as Catholic even though I haven’t been in a church since I was a kid and have never read the Bible. I know many people like me living in Brooklyn. I am assuming this is not true of evangelical Protestants.
BklynNY on February 16, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Having been a UN peacekeeper (FYROM 1995) let me tell you who are in love with the UN, you have no idea what really goes on. In most war zones, they do nothing but take photos and visit sex slaves.
Don’t like what I said? Think I am wrong? Do some research.
sonofdy on February 16, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I agree JetBoy :). Many of us Church going Catholics just live our daily lives and practice our Faith. I don’t like it either that those who are anti-Catholics have to take jabs at the Church every time there is a story that comes out related to the Church weather good or bad.
rapunzel77 on February 16, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I used to just laugh at AP’s occasional atheist posts or digs at religion because his other stuff is pretty funny. But after awhile it just gets old…and then annoying.
watchmen on February 16, 2009 at 5:56 PM
My sister-in-law, my uncle, and my cousins wouldn’t like it either :)
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Allah, you will be lucky to break 100 on this thread.
Next time be sure to include a reference to evolution, or find a way to include “Palin” in the discussion.
Disappointing.
Bishop on February 16, 2009 at 5:58 PM
To quote AllahPundit, “because our ilk deserves it”?
CyberCipher on February 16, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Mormons rule.
HA HA HA HA!!!
The Wall on February 16, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Go figure, I am a Hindu.
Mr. Joe on February 16, 2009 at 6:03 PM
I’ve only just mastered my ego. Haven’t even had time to look at my ilk.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:03 PM
I don’t get that either. Is it really necessary to criticize fellow Christians?
Actually, I thought that was his way of complementing them, though I’m really not sure what that’s supposed to mean. Does it mean without Christians they’ll start raping children or that without Christians it’ll be almost nonexistent?
Esthier on February 16, 2009 at 6:03 PM
One of the biggest difference between Catholics and Evangelicals (aside Church hierarchy and minor theological differences) is that most Evangelical Protestants tend to aggressive proselytizing – something they share in common with Mormons. Kind of an “if you’re not sharing the good news, you must be luke warm” attitude. And, now that I think of it, probably goes a way towards explaining why they despise Mormons so much: pushing the wrong drug.
peski on February 16, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Brilliant! Someone has figured out what this stupid poll is for. You match your own answer to the chart, and then you know what religion to join.
Thank you, and welcome Mr. Joe.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:04 PM
“Overall, 44 percent of Americans in the volunteer military call themselves Protestants and 24 percent say they are Catholics, according to the Defense Manpower Data Center. The other major world religions are not heavily represented: Muslims and Jews make up 0.3 percent each, Buddhists 0.2 percent and Hindus 0.1 percent. The “other” category numbered 5 percent.”
I think the US military would suffer SEVERE shortages of troops there Madison. If a “Rapture” would happen 68 percent of troops would disappear. My smear was of the low numbers of UN troops, not a slam on the US military. If it came off as such I apologize.
portlandon on February 16, 2009 at 6:05 PM
To be fair, he did work evolution in there with the third poll.
RightOFLeft on February 16, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Never heard anyone say that before. It’s an interesting idea.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Sigh… the problem AP is that when you (like most atheists and secular intellectuals) try to examine religions and religious differences, it’s very similar to a color blind man trying to explain the difference between the color blue, and the color green.
For example: Mormons and Evangelicals have major differences on the subject of evolution, but the form of the question asked obscures those differences because of the differences between Mormon and evangelical understanding of what life is. Mormons view human life as being the unification of a body and a pre-existing spirit. Evangelical thought on the matter is less clear, but seems to assume that the spirit comes into existence at the same time as the body.
What this means is that for Mormons, whether or not evolution was used to create the physical body of man, human life did not begin until the spirit (not created through evolution) was placed in the mortal body. Thus evolution is not sufficient to explain the origin of human life- even if the theory of evolution is perfectly correct.
The fact that atheists and intellecuals see little difference between the Mormon theological position on evolution and the evangelical causes a lot of suspicion that in truth, the question of evolution is being used as a proxy for the question of God’s existence. Obviously if you believe in God you are going to be upset about the use of evolution to promote a stealthy atheism into school and education- even if you think evolution is a correct theory.
Also, the first qeustion and lead for this post is clearly a poor model. Where is the option to select “Parents” as the source of moral judgment? No poll on the matter can be correct without including such an option. Furthermore, the option that participates substitute for parental authority could very well be correlated with their religion.
Frankly, when I read these polls, it sometimes seems as though the poll was written so as to create the desired result.
Sackett on February 16, 2009 at 6:08 PM
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
51.3% of Americans self-identify as Protestants, so at only 44% of the military, they are significantly UNDER-represented.
By the way, how many centuries do we need to wait before we start to wonder about that Rapture thingy?
peski on February 16, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Mormons dont give a rip about evolution one way or another. They believe God created mankind in his own image and have no clue nor any care how he did it.
These goofy evangelical who actually think God made the world in 7 days and that man has been on the earth for 7000 years are scary nutty. No offense though.
The Wall on February 16, 2009 at 6:11 PM
I’m sure none taken.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:12 PM
Yeah, it’s always been my experience that many Fundamentalists don’t even see Catholics as “true” Christians. Were “Papists”…
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 6:17 PM
I didn’t need a poll to tell me that, but that is probably why so we are so corrupt in so many ways as a country.
RonDelDon on February 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM
I can’t imagine why Christianity is dying here in the United States. When most who claim the title of “Christian” don’t have a Biblical worldview, one need not wonder why they don’t use the Bible for moral decision-making.
Send_Me on February 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM
That’s ridiculous. Rapists are of every religion, but I suspect most are atheists.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:21 PM
My collie says:
CyberCipher on February 16, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Cafeteria Catholics are ostensibly Catholic, even if they don’t know diddly about their teaching.
I would love to hear the complete theological background on “Mainline churches” and “evangelicals.”
Question 1: Is Jesus fully human and fully divine?
Question 2: Is the practice of homosexuality an abomination or simply an “alternative lifestyle?”
Question 3: Abortion: Civil Right or Unspeakable Evil?
Perhaps I am projecting a bit too much, but I imagine the difference between a Cafeteria Catholic and a Cafeteria Evangelical is that a Cafeteria Catholic chooses which beliefs to reject and a Cafeteria Evangelical chooses which church to accept.
BKennedy on February 16, 2009 at 6:26 PM
Freud says these kinds of dreams usually include a priest, a rabbi, and a bar. Try to remember.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:28 PM
I don’t know, how about rapture on 05/17/09 at about 9:30am? I have a staff meeting that morning.
portlandon on February 16, 2009 at 6:29 PM
*facepalm*
Papist…not Rapist
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 6:46 PM
A priest, a minister, and a rabbi walk into a bar. Bartender says “Is this some kind of joke?”
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM
A priest, a minister, and a rabbi walk into a bar. They are knocked unconscious.
BKennedy on February 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Gotcha…twice. That means you missed my little dig at AP too.
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Most people I know who call themselves Jews are referring to their heritage. Few of them have even studied the Torah, understand the religion, or practice the beliefs. You don’t have to be an orthodox Jew to be a practicing Jew. But these charts are a travesty.
After WWII, many Jews abandoned religion completely, understandably feeling that G-d had abandoned them. Why they went to the left and sided with the enemy is beyond my understanding.
stonemeister on February 16, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Eh.. religious teachings are the soil from which “common sense” springs.
spmat on February 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Shoulda figured…I know ’round here well enough by now :-)
I’m not the quickest horse out of the gate, but I usually do make it around the track at some point.
Case in point, it actually took me a few seconds before I got that…lol
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 7:03 PM
*know YOU well enough…
*sigh*
JetBoy on February 16, 2009 at 7:03 PM
I’ll take “The Rapists” for $1000 Alex.
That’s “Therapists” Mr. Connery.
portlandon on February 16, 2009 at 7:09 PM
slower for Jet. :)
JiangxiDad on February 16, 2009 at 7:12 PM
YAY! Another post where Allah shows how intolerant he is of any religion other than his own. Why are atheists such a-holes when it comes to religion? live and let live.
Ampersand on February 16, 2009 at 7:12 PM
a) I’m Catholic, and I’m devout. I know Ed Morrissey is devout too.
b) We Catholics call “ingrained religious teaching” a well-formed and informed conscience — its actually well formed and informed Catholic theology. It’s the part of you that says that you need to help those needy people, and the part that says its time to talk to God.
Obviously, from the link, I believe that “needy people” includes the unborn.
unclesmrgol on February 16, 2009 at 7:17 PM
why not? you seem to think christianity is some sort of wimpy religion, where historically its not…pacifism isn’t christian, and its unsupportable from the bible…
Thank God Charles Martel, the monks of St. John, and others had the guts to fight like hell against the muslim invaders…
right4life on February 16, 2009 at 7:32 PM
ALLAHPUNDIT. What the hell is the matter with you? Hopefully we’re all better than that.
I’d want him dead but not like that. Simple injection as to remove him from the gene pool of creation and ideas.
watson007 on February 16, 2009 at 7:34 PM
It’s funny that Allah, as an atheist, brings up religion more than the devout on this blog.
I also think that trying to explain religious beliefs from an intellectual perspective is like trying to explain Math without using numbers.
Luckedout on February 16, 2009 at 7:34 PM
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