Video: Specter declares that Porkulus needed more time for hearings

posted at 1:38 pm on February 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Okay … then why didn’t Arlen Specter demand hearings? At the very least, he could have forced more debate by opposing the cloture vote yesterday. Instead, he uses this lame excuse after Bloomberg found an embarrassingly objectionable provision in Porkulus yesterday:

Got that? Specter missed this because of a “rush to judgment,” a phrase first made popular by the late Johnnie Cochran in the OJ Simpson murder trial in 1995. It’s no less of a bad excuse here, mainly because Specter enabled the “rush” himself. Specter has survived a bout with cancer, which Megyn Kelly notes, and wonders why Specter would support a bill that forces doctors to get federal approval on treatments before discussing them with their patients. The answer? Specter apparently never read the bill before agreeing to cloture.

Here’s what Bloomberg found:

One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” …

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties.  “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Basically, it tells Specter that he should have accepted death rather than expensive treatment, and that he’s a bad American for having survived.  His doctors would have faced penalties for attempting to cure him if the FCCCER didn’t approve their work.

And Specter voted for it. What a boob!

He’s not the only boob who didn’t read the bill before voting for an end to debate:

The clueless lead the clueless on Capitol Hill, and it will cost us a trillion dollars to watch the circus.

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CORRECT, mikeyboss @ 7:27 p.m.

Gohawgs on February 10, 2009 at 8:11 PM

I read yesterday (no link today, didn’t save it), but anyway, I read yesterday that IF YOU SAVED $1,000. A DAY since the time of Christ, TODAY you would still not have the amount of money that PORKULUS involves.

No, No – that is $1,000,000 (ONE MILLION) per day since Christ was born is the amount of money we are talking about.

izoneguy on February 10, 2009 at 8:12 PM

Specter…the Maverick for a new generation. Could a Presidential nomination be far behind? After all, if Repubicans don’t reach across the aisle, we can’t possibly win. Specter 2012!

austinnelly on February 10, 2009 at 8:20 PM

Very mavericky.

This guy finally explains what happened after Lehman fell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMu1mFao3w

getalife on February 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM

Specter assured Ms. Kelly that something like that will never happen. Didn’t they swear when pushing for the Federal income tax that it would never exceed %1, and didn’t they also swear when pushing to create social security that it would be safe from government access in a “lock box”. He can’t be that much of a fool can he?

DFCtomm on February 10, 2009 at 8:46 PM

Something smells when Sphincter, Collins, and Snowjob are SO INVESTED in this….taking all these beatings. Even going on conservative talk radio and getting blasted.

Is Rahm holding their kids hostage or something?

It’s like they don’t realize that we can READ THE DAMN BILL and see the lies and pork that oozes out AND THEY STILL DON’T CARE.

They’re like freakin’ Juan McCain and Boosh on amnesty.

LET’S EFFIN’ ROLL! I am more angry over this than anything ever.

ex-Democrat on February 10, 2009 at 8:52 PM

Basically, it tells Specter that he should have accepted death rather than expensive treatment, and that he’s a bad American for having survived.

It’s turning out that way. Shows in his case that measure has merit.

wepeople on February 10, 2009 at 8:58 PM

http://nostimulus.com/

sites back up…sign it if you care

silentMajority on February 10, 2009 at 8:59 PM

I’d like to read all the posts, but I don’t have all night. I hope I can add something to the discussion – first of all arlen spector has a health care system to live for. All congress has and they won’t have the same as us, not in this life time. I just hope all those people in florida who voted for this yuk realize that they must die instead of getting health care for the good of the messiah. DO YOU GET THIS SENIORS? YOU WON’T HAVE HELP AS YOU AGE BECAUSE IT DOESN’T HELP THE MESSIAH, SO JUST DIE, OR SUFFER, BUT NO MEDICAL HELP.
God help us all.

Bambi on February 10, 2009 at 9:09 PM

What does she mean that he can stop the bill?

Poor Specter seems kind of old and sick.

PattyJ on February 10, 2009 at 9:58 PM

WTH do these fools expect when they draft a 600+ page “must pass” bill? Left wing Marxists use the so-called financial crisis as cover to advance their agenda and our moronic representatives, wanting to be seen “doing something”, jump aboard without a clue as to what they’re supporting. When they do find a clue it’s too damn late!

DerKrieger on February 10, 2009 at 10:05 PM

Even worse for the administration, support seems to be dropping among people who say they’ve learned more about the stimulus:

from yahoo news story regarding dropping poll numbers for the stimulus package.

Jamson64 on February 10, 2009 at 10:09 PM

Specter apparently never read the bill before agreeing to cloture.

I’m sorry………….

…………… isn’t that a basic job requirement?

Sir, you should be fired!

Seven Percent Solution on February 10, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Thank you Bush administration for backing Specter over Pat Toomey in 2004. Thanks ALOT! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

SouthernGent on February 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM

FCCCER?

Sounds like an appropriate name for what that office will wind up doing to bent over taxpaying patients.

Midas on February 10, 2009 at 10:37 PM

I presume the patients are not to be told so that if the FCCCER decides that they should die, they will die without knowing that they were condemned for death by the Obama administration. Under such secrecy, how can we know if the FCCCERs won’t play political favorites with their new power of life and death; ie Specter is a Republican old man with brain cancer so he has to die while Ted Kennedy a Democrat old man with brain cancer gets to live?

KW64 on February 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM

Camille Paglia on the pork-u-lus:

Why in the cosmos would the new administration, smoothly sailing out of Obama’s classy inauguration, repeat the embarrassing blunders of Bill Clinton’s first term? By foolishly promising a complete overhaul of healthcare within 100 days (and by putting his secretive, ill-prepared wife in charge of it), Clinton made himself look naive and incompetent and set healthcare reform back for more than 15 years.

President Obama was ill-served by his advisors (shall we thump that checkered piñata, Rahm Emanuel?), who evidently did not help him to produce a strong, focused, coherent bill that he could have explained and defended to the nation before it was set upon by partisan wolves. To defer to the House of Representatives and let the bill be thrown together by cacophonous mob rule made the president seem passive and behind the curve.

Mr. Joe on February 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM

For a wonderful relief from today’s Porkuluza, listen to Grue in the attick. You’ll be amazed.

Entelechy on February 10, 2009 at 11:02 PM

let the bill be thrown together by cacophonous mob rule made the president seem passive and behind the curve.

Mr. Joe on February 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Seem passive? Obama is a passive aggressive, who has relied on charm and rhetorical razz-a-ma-tazz flourishes to step over more competent people. He has very little in legislation to show for his years. Most of it was written by others, and he stepped in to attach his name to their work.

onlineanalyst on February 10, 2009 at 11:04 PM

I presume the patients are not to be told so that if the FCCCER decides that they should die, they will die without knowing that they were condemned for death by the Obama administration. Under such secrecy, how can we know if the FCCCERs won’t play political favorites with their new power of life and death; ie Specter is a Republican old man with brain cancer so he has to die while Ted Kennedy a Democrat old man with brain cancer gets to live?

KW64 on February 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM

I think you can rest assured that FCCCER will have exactly the same degree of influence over top Democrat politicians as the IRS does.

I’m trying to take the opportunity of these last dying days of America, before the entire system is crushed under two trillion dollars of deficit spending, to have a grim laugh at the utter absurdity of it all. The clueless boobs who voted Obama in are getting smacked across the face with the wet fish of socialist reality, and they still don’t quite comprehend what’s happening… they’re blinking dumbly and wondering what that wet smacking sound is, but their eyes haven’t quite focused on the fish. Here we have the reductio ad absurdum of socialism: a government program that will ration scarce health resources by deciding which citizens are expendable enough to consign to death, with the absolute certainty that no one in the Democrat ruling class will ever be written off that way. Since socialist medicine provides absolutely no incentive to increase the supply or quality of medical care, rationing will inevitably become more severe, far beyond the point where any group of voters has a democratic means to vote the socialist medical system away. You can be sure the last few working MRI machines will be located in Washington D.C., however, and reserved for the exclusive use of the Party. The British national health system recently adopted mandatory organ donation, giving the state the right to seize the organs of the dead, based on the legal principle of “implied consent” – meaning the dead can’t object, so they are presumed to submit willingly to the state’s demands. As a great old sci-fi story by Larry Niven suggested, in a few more years they might be handing out death sentences for traffic violations, to ensure the supply of organs needed to sustain the politically well-connected.

Obama is always babbling about dividing up the “economic pie,” which perfectly illustrates the sick brutality and mindlessness of socialism: a pie, a closed circle, a static lump of economic goodies that can only be “divided” according to political directives, never grown or improved. The bitter results of this mindset will become increasingly obvious as the weight of the porkulus bills crushes the economy. Why should an entrepreneur or venture capitalist take a chance on creating wealth, when success only means it will be seized and redistributed? The wealthiest Americans have enough resources to hunker down and weather the cold grey rain of socialism – better to put it where Obama and his apparatchiks can’t get it, instead of risking it. Even if bread ends up costing $50 a loaf, Bill Gates, George Soros, and the millionaire liberals of Hollywood will still be able to afford bread. The absence of risk is deadly to a technologically advanced capitalist society. In a couple of years, when that economic pie is shriveled and stale, and increasingly difficult to divide among reliable Democrat voting constituencies, the real fun will begin.

Doctor Zero on February 10, 2009 at 11:13 PM

I appologize for not reading thru all the comments and someone might have noted this but I hear there is language n the bill that stipulated that Washington DC is to be treated equal to State status and there was some concern that this language sets up the precedent to eventually grant all state rights to Washington DC and therefore eventually allow for both House and Senate representation. And we can guess which way that’s gonna swing. First the census moves to Obama’s Chief of Staff and now DC gets set up for 2 Ds in the Senate …

Anybody who has read through this monster know anything about that?

Texas Gal on February 10, 2009 at 11:30 PM

Is Rahm holding their kids hostage or something?

ex-Democrat on February 10, 2009 at 8:52 PM

Perhaps he made them an offer they could not refuse.

H/T to the Corleone family.

Oink on February 10, 2009 at 11:46 PM

Seem passive? Obama is a passive aggressive, who has relied on charm and rhetorical razz-a-ma-tazz flourishes to step over more competent people. He has very little in legislation to show for his years. Most of it was written by others, and he stepped in to attach his name to their work.

onlineanalyst on February 10, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Seriously… tell me WHY people are willing to prop him up? WHY have people ALWAYS been willing to prop him up from the very beginning. I’m serious. Why HIM?

Oink on February 10, 2009 at 11:48 PM

I presume the patients are not to be told so that if the FCCCER decides that they should die, they will die without knowing that they were condemned for death by the Obama administration. Under such secrecy, how can we know if the FCCCERs won’t play political favorites with their new power of life and death; ie Specter is a Republican old man with brain cancer so he has to die while Ted Kennedy a Democrat old man with brain cancer gets to live?

KW64 on February 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM

I predict that this will lead to a massive new growth industry: state-of-the-art, for-fee, and – most of all – PRIVATE, medical treatment in India.

Flight + care cheaper than a current, pre-”socialized” U.S. doc, and – best of all – the information stays out of your ‘mandatory’ online health record.

The for-fee medical care industry has already started in India TTBOMK, but it will enter a whole new realm if the gov’t implements the provisions in the new bill. It may accelerate the trend to the point that any scheduled medical activity such as a checkup or surgery will happen over there (or ‘over the wire’, or via a satellite office in a friendly country staffed by Indian doctors closer to home like Mexico or Jamaica).

And then the only stateside ‘industry’ to seemingly escape the Perfect Market Theory and globalization-induced market pressures – medical care – will have its gravy sucked out of it too. (The bright side? Reduced medical costs. The downside? Inferior care, like you get in countries with socialized medicine.)

RD on February 10, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Flight + care cheaper than a current, pre-”socialized” U.S. doc, and – best of all – the information stays out of your ‘mandatory’ online health record.

RD on February 10, 2009 at 11:57 PM

At least until the U.S. makes it a crime to withhold information on medical treatments outside the country from your online medical records. (Like the IRS makes it a crime not to disclose profits earned overseas.)

And thus the criminalization of perfectly rational behavior continues…

RD on February 11, 2009 at 12:02 AM

At least until the U.S. makes it a crime to withhold information on medical treatments outside the country from your online medical records. (Like the IRS makes it a crime not to disclose profits earned overseas and pay Federal taxes on them.)

RD on February 11, 2009 at 12:02 AM

There, fixed it.

Doctor Zero on February 10, 2009 at 11:13 PM

+1.0E2 !

RD on February 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM

Once the hidden welfare spending in the bill is counted, the total 10-year fiscal burden (added to the national debt) will not be $816 billion, as claimed, but $1.34 trillion. This amounts to $17,400 for each household paying income tax in the U.S.

$264 billion (32 percent) is new means-tested welfare spending.

But this welfare spending is only the tip of the iceberg. The bill sets in motion another $523 billion in new welfare spending that is hidden by budgetary gimmicks. If the bill is enacted, the total 10-year extra welfare cost is likely to be $787 billion.

The claim that Congress is temporarily increasing welfare spending for Keynesian purposes (to spark the economy by boosting consumer spending) is a red herring. The real goal is to get “the camel’s nose under the tent” for a massive permanent expansion of the welfare state.

GREAT article over at the Heritage Foundation. The true cost of this bill is obscured.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/economy/wm2276.cfm

moxie_neanderthal on February 11, 2009 at 12:36 AM

The FED is like the Mafia re TARP Money. We all understand the fact that you if you borrow money from the Mob, you can’t just file bankruptcy to avoid paying them the money you owe.

I submit that the Mafia and the private corporation known as the Federal Reserve are basically two peas in a pod.

The banks that borrowed hundreds of billions from the FED do not have the option of telling the FED, “ooooops, I guess we shouldn’t have loaned all that money to illegal aliens”.

The banks have now been forced to go to their congressman and beg to have them pass bailout bills to come up with the cash to pay back the FED all the money that the banks lost.

Anyone who thinks that this TARP money and new bailout money is going any place other than back to the FED to pay down debts is smoking some really good stuff. Anyone who thinks that this bailout money is going to be used by the banks to make new loans to the sheeple is dreadfully confused.

In a nutshell, here is the timeline.

The FED lowered interest rates to 1% back in 2003.

The banks began borrowing cheap money from the FED and loaning it out to anyone who could breathe.

Today, all of these loans are going bad and what has happened?……the tax payers have been stuck paying the FED back all the money that it never should have loaned out in the first place.

The FED is a private corporation that took risks by loaning out all that cheap money and now the FED is being paid back every dime at our expense.

If the public understood what is really happening, we would see a giant global example of Atlas shrugging.

KentAllard on February 11, 2009 at 1:07 AM

Is this jerk for real? Oh my God I cam doing all I can to not write a string of swear words.

I feel like i’m in some sci-fi movie and watching the supernatural enfeeblement before some alien force takes over.

VinceP1974 on February 11, 2009 at 1:15 AM

For some reason, I find it even more insulting when Republicans lie right to my face than I do when Democrats do it. Maybe because I always expect it from the Dems, I dunno.

Cylor on February 11, 2009 at 4:22 AM

Holly blue blazes Megyn Kelly is an angel…

sorry. I know it’s not the most helpful observation but it has to be said.

Ampersand on February 11, 2009 at 5:15 AM

I am not going to let Specter use stupidity as an excuse. You have to start with the assumption that a Senator knows what he is voting on and wants what he votes for to pass. I am convinced that Senator Spector wants the FCCCERs in Washington to be able to tell us what we can and can’t have from our doctors.

(BTW, you just know those FCCCERs aren’t going to apply the same standards to Senators and Congressmen… The Nomenklatura always gets better care.)

gridlock2 on February 11, 2009 at 6:35 AM

So, let me get this straight. Mr. Hope and Change chose Tom Daschle, who’s apparently now famous for espousing the idea that giving up that very same hope is crucial for the survival of our health care system?

Are you kidding me?

This guy is a JOKE.

amkun on February 11, 2009 at 7:07 AM

Did O’Reilly claim last night that ACORN wasn’t getting any money? I was otherwise preoccupied, but I thought I heard him say that.

Buy Danish on February 11, 2009 at 7:22 AM

Hidden Socilized Medicine…

Money for ACORN…

And this idiot did not know what he voted on???

Thank you PA. for this POS!

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 7:26 AM

According to this poll, the plebes are not persuaded by Chuckie Shumer’s claim that Americans don’t care about little porky things.

Buy Danish on February 11, 2009 at 7:44 AM

You can’t really blame Specter for treating the public like morons by speaking those transparent lies with a straight face. The American public IS lazy, stupid, gullible, and has the attention span of a 2 year old with ADD. Every one of these Washington types treat us this way. First because they know the reality and second because they have a willing media making it easy for them.

There are roughly 214 million voting age adults in the US. (2004) Of those, 121 million voted in Novembers election. 57 million voted for McCain. That leaves 67 million idiots who voted for Oslime-a and 93 million who just can’t be bothered. When almost half of the country doesn’t care what Specter does, and another quarter are morons, why in the name of self preservation would he try and do the right thing and vote with 1/4th of the population?

Politicians are scumbags. We all know it yet we act surprised when a republican acts like a scumbag politician.

Look folks, it’s time to prepare for self reliance. Store up food and water (at least a years worth) and tell no one. Otherwise the gub’ment will come and take your food when they deem it in the public’s best interest. Hoard money. And hoard it in small denominations. If the going rate for a loaf of bread is $5, and all you have is a twenty, guess what the new going rate for a loaf of bread is? Of course weapons and ammunition are a given requirement.

csdeven on February 11, 2009 at 8:07 AM

From Buy Danish’s link:

Across the board, the poll found that, on average, 90 percent of Republicans and 60 percent of Independents disapprove of Obama’s stimulus bill.

This is a great portent for 2010, especially given Obama’s refusal to-date to throw Pelosi and Reid under the bus for writing such a terribly wasteful bill.

venividivici on February 11, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Flood this bastards phones, e-mails, faxes…

Make dang sure he understands this is his LAST term!

No if’s, and’s or but’s… or in his case: BUTT’s!

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 8:29 AM

Good article Ed… Thanks for including John Tester in this post, as Montanans can now spread your post around the state and firmly attach Tester and Baucus to this crap sandwich.

Specter, Snowe, & Collins all work for the people. The people shouted, screamed, yelled (hundreds to one) for these Senators to do the work of the people and vote NO on this crap sandwich. These Senators told the people (by way of their vote) to shut up and get out of the way. Any employee who takes this type of stance winds up fired, out of a job with a track record that will haunt them wherever they look for new work. These three are complete sell-outs. Makes me wonder!!!

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:30 AM

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 8:29 AM

Did that earlier Mark… Told them that I would donate to whom ever runs against them. Don’t think it matters much, as I’m pretty sure a portion of this porkulus money is going towards their re-election, retirement, and so on…

Corrupt POS everyone of them!

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM

For each and every Republican that stayed home on election night because you didn’t like Bush, you didn’t like McCain, you didn’t like Palin, or you just thought Obama seems like a good guy, you friggin idiots are getting what you deserved. I blame every single one of you just as much as I blame Spector, Snow, and Collins. You should be ashamed to call yourselves Americans and destroying the American way of life.

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:36 AM

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:36 AM

Um, I understand your feelings, but the real culprits are as follows:

1> The American Print Media
2> The film industry
3> The music & arts industry
4> Unions & all other forms of organized crime

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:36 AM

Um, I understand your feelings, but the real culprits are as follows:

1> The American Print Media
2> The film industry
3> The music & arts industry
4> Unions & all other forms of organized crime

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM

5> Stupid Republicans that stayed home / didn’t care
6> Moderate, Big Tent’ers, Centerists
7> Public Schools and Socialist Universities
8> John McCain and the RNC
9> Radicals that hate America as it has always been

FIFY

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 8:48 AM

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:36 AM

Um, I understand your feelings, but the real culprits are as follows:

1> The American Print Media
2> The film industry
3> The music & arts industry
4> Unions & all other forms of organized crime

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM

5> Stupid Republicans that stayed home / didn’t care
6> Moderate, Big Tent’ers, Centerists
7> Public Schools and Socialist Universities

8> John McCain and the RNC
9> Radicals that hate America as it has always been

10> Stupid American Jews
11> Stupid racist American blacks
12> Stupid ignorant members of my own family

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM

I refuse to believe people voted for Obama because the NY times told them to.
I refuse to believe people voted for Obama because Will.I.Am(not) told them to.
I refuse to believe people voted for Obama because Ashton Kutcher and Cameron Diaz told them to.
I refuse to believe people voted for Obama because their union boss told them to.

To believe these things would indicate that Americans aren’t capable of rational and independent thought, and that is a premise I will not accept. Your reasons make up a small percentage of the population. I believe many didn’t realize the gravity of the situation, I believe people got lazy and didn’t do their homework. I still believe that this is the greatest country on earth and the citizens who have been sleeping will wake up and see what is happening.

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:54 AM

Kris,

I have several members of my family who are life long Union workers (sheet metal – heating & air)… I too was a member many years ago. If you have never been to a Union meeting, you really have no idea as to the extend of the brainwash, as well as to the extent of the threats that face you if you go against Union protocol. One of my cousins was here last summer visiting, and he told us that he would vote for Obama simply because “that is what Union members do, they vote Democrat.”

Believe it or not Kris, you go with Union rules or you put yourself in harms way. It’s real!

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:59 AM

I still believe that this is the greatest country on earth and the citizens who have been sleeping will wake up and see what is happening.

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:54 AM

I do too, but waking up now is WAY TOO LATE! We have 4 years of this abortion, the boy king, the man child, the Messiah…

And please go check out the Messiah worship on the other thread of his “town hall” in FL. yesterday… The man fainting, the women weeping, the give me mentality, the lazy Liberal radicals and tell me that our list is NOT accurate. We have the video tape… you have an opinion.

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Believe it or not Kris, you go with Union rules or you put yourself in harms way. It’s real!

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 8:59 AM

Fact… I am, as stated here at HA before, a Manager in the HVAC industry… Union shop, non-union position. the amount of pressure brought to bear on these guys was intense… meeting after meeting, book after book… even a localy made video message in favor of the Messiah… lots and lots of union dues went to Obama and all the materials to “force” votes…

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Yep, been there & done that Mark… Got my butt out of the Union back in 1977. Main reason, I wanted to live my life rather than have others force me into things I did not agree with. Unions are going to receive a huge pay day from Obama and the three phony Repubicans. Unions need to be discussed & debated in this country. Films of Union meetings, tape recordings, and interviews with those who have been there done that.

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 9:12 AM

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 9:12 AM

If you actualy look at it a Union IS Socialism…

Oneness… Sameness… Common lowered desire…

A perfect fit for the Messiah!

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 9:16 AM

Wonder if the Dr.s will strike over this? I almost wish they would as this will call attention to the monumental incompetence of the Dem legislative branch. And, is this or is this not, kiss bottom with the insurance people from a Party that demonizes big business on a regualr basis.

jeanie on February 11, 2009 at 9:19 AM

O’Reilly,as I understood it, did say that. He said that ACORN had to compete for this money like other agencies. Wonder how fair that competition will be!

jeanie on February 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM

Fact… I am, as stated here at HA before, a Manager in the HVAC industry… Union shop, non-union position. the amount of pressure brought to bear on these guys was intense… meeting after meeting, book after book… even a localy made video message in favor of the Messiah… lots and lots of union dues went to Obama and all the materials to “force” votes…

Four years ago, I worked at UPS while putting myself through school. I wore my Bush/Cheney shirt to work loading the trucks two days before the election. In school, I got into arguements with professors over politics during class discussions. Bottom line is, they can try to force feed you their crap, but they can’t make you swallow it. I don’t disagree with any of the things you both have said, but people who allow themselves to become lemmings are cowards.

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Used to be a card carrying member of the infamous teacher’s union, the NEA. Used to be building rep for many years and bought much of the Union message. And…this was back when Unions were far more powerful than they are now, as I see it. But, even then, I quietly voted for whom I thought was the best man for the job but kept my mouth shut about it if it wasn’t the Union choice. It wouldn’t have crossed my mind to admit that I had voted other than Democratic and my dues were regularly used to support Dem nominees. Cowardly? Yep! When the poster above talks about pressure he’s on the money.

jeanie on February 11, 2009 at 9:40 AM

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 9:22 AM

I don’t disagree with your way of thinking Kris, not at all. The only comment I would like you to consider is this…

Mark and I have seen things you have yet to see. Think on terms of ” The Soprano’s”… The level of thuggery that takes place within Unions is beyond scary. The buy-in is by way of higher pay, benefits, and a force behind you to watch your back. That right there hooks most. When you have signed on, the indoctrination begins. I left the Union some 32 years ago, and I still have family members and one time friends, who refuse to speak to me as a result. About 10 years ago, my non-union company of 20 years came under attack by guess who; Unions… My company had become a threat to them, since my company was “bidding and winning” some projects that they deemed their territory. Guess what Kris; the Unions sued my company right out of business, as they could sustain the legal expenses and my company couldn’t.

Like I said, Mark and I have real experience with Unions.

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 9:51 AM

How desperate are you when you look to Arlen Specter to be your spokesmen?

I don’t think Obama can honestly say he believes what he is saying.

It is a historical fact that America’s free market economy goes through cycles of growth and contraction that run on a consistently long-term upward track.

Jennifer Loven, White House correspondent for The Associated Press, pointed this out in the first question of Monday’s press conference. “Can you talk about what you know or what you’re hearing that would lead you to say that our recession might be permanent, when others in our history have not?” said Loven. “And do you think that you risk losing some credibility or even talking down the economy by using dire language like that?”

http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43371

If Obama is losing Jennifer Loven at the Associated Press, the slobbering love affair may just be coming to an end.

Angry Dumbo on February 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM

Mr. Joe on February 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Camille Paglia is smart, but she herself drank the Obama Kool Aid. It beats me why she is surprised when many of us saw this as an inevitable outcome of Obama in office. It’s ironic she’s blaming his advisors. Perhaps she’ll eventually wake up and realize the truth about Obama.

INC on February 11, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Buy Danish on February 11, 2009 at 7:44 AM

That poll does my heart good. The numbers are remarkable:

Overall, 53 percent of Americans agree that the Obama stimulus bill will actually hinder economic recovery; while only 31 percent disagree (16 percent are not sure). Fifty-six percent of Independent voters also agree, while only 27 percent disagree (17 percent are not sure). A staggering 88 percent of Republicans agree and just 6 percent disagree (another 6 percent are not sure).

Fifty-seven percent of Independent voters agree that Obama’s stimulus package spends too much and does little to stimulate the economy; while just 31 percent of Independents disagree (12 percent are not sure). Eighty-nine percent of Republicans also agree, while only 5 percent disagree (6 percent are not sure).

Sixty-six percent of Independent voters think Obama wants to spend too much money on items that won’t improve the economy. As for Republicans, a staggering 93 percent agree.

Across the board, the poll found that, on average, 90 percent of Republicans and 60 percent of Independents disapprove of Obama’s stimulus bill.

“Our poll numbers are no different than the ones being read in the White House,” said ATI-News president Brad O’Leary. “That’s why President Obama is being forced to campaign across America for his stimulus bill – 90 percent of Republicans and 60 percent of Independents oppose it.”

Keep those calls and emails going to the bad guy and gals and encouragement to the good ones!

INC on February 11, 2009 at 10:14 AM

INC on February 11, 2009 at 10:14 AM

What’s really nice here INC; even the MSM has labeled this bill as the Obama Bill.

The legacy begins…

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/

reshas1 on February 11, 2009 at 10:26 AM

I saw an interview with an autoworker at a hall in the Ann Arbor area, they panned the hall, quickly, I used my DVR to pause and check out the HUGH poster of Obama in the background, it had to be 8 x 10, and that is in FEET… It’s disgusting..

reshas1 on February 11, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM

:-)

INC on February 11, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Keemo,

He can’t vote present anymore. As Truman said, “The buck stops here.” Today that has a double entendre.

INC on February 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM

kriscoleman on February 11, 2009 at 8:36 AM

The idiocy started with the nomination of McCain. By election time the horse was already out of the barn.

csdeven on February 11, 2009 at 10:45 AM

By noon today the Fark America Porkulous Bill will come out of conference…

MASS CALLS !!!

Tell them to VOTE NO !!!

To hell with compromise, let the Messiah wear this turd in his My Babies Daddy boxers !!!

No republican votes !!!

Fire any and ALL that go against the will of the people !!!

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Mark and I have seen things you have yet to see. Think on terms of ” The Soprano’s”… The level of thuggery that takes place within Unions is beyond scary. The buy-in is by way of higher pay, benefits, and a force behind you to watch your back. That right there hooks most. When you have signed on, the indoctrination begins. I left the Union some 32 years ago, and I still have family members and one time friends, who refuse to speak to me as a result. About 10 years ago, my non-union company of 20 years came under attack by guess who; Unions… My company had become a threat to them, since my company was “bidding and winning” some projects that they deemed their territory. Guess what Kris; the Unions sued my company right out of business, as they could sustain the legal expenses and my company couldn’t.

Like I said, Mark and I have real experience with Unions.

Keemo on February 11, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Every collectivist movement begins with labor unions, which are based on the concept of collective bargaining. Like every political organism in a collectivist system, they draw their power from conformity. The only reason a union has any power is because almost all of its workers will do what the union bosses say, just as 80-90% uniformity in voting habits gives the leaders of ethnic groups political power.

It’s inevitable that such an organization will become corrupt, because every collectivist organism is inherently corrupt: the leadership requires obedience and conformity, or the organization becomes powerless. When obedience is no longer given freely, or conformity drops below the eighty or ninety percent that is required, they will be compelled.

As the labor unions go, so goes socialist America. In order to prosper, or perhaps even survive, every citizen will need to belong to a collectivist group that requires near-total obedience from its members. The economic pie will be divided between these groups, according to their political influence. If you don’t belong to a collective or union, you won’t get any pie.

Doctor Zero on February 11, 2009 at 11:14 AM

By noon today the Fark America Porkulous Bill will come out of conference…

Mark Garnett on February 11, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Shouldn’t that be the Frak America Porkulous Bill? After all, all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again…

Doctor Zero on February 11, 2009 at 11:25 AM

im more pissed about Taxing States who balanced theire budgets to give welfare to california, which uses Social experiments and ran up a huge deficit. instead of teaching california that if it cant pay , dont do…. they punish the rest of the country (mainly red states that are not failing) stealing money for us to go for sex changes for californias state employees…

also this is just a nice way to Socialize the Medicine…. they do not have to hide it cause they have 100% of the poor/minority/dumbasses which make up 51% of the vote… esp if they bus them into the voting booths…

Donut on February 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Arlen claims he didn’t know what was in the bill?

Hello? What the &^$# do you have a STAFF FOR, ARLEN?

Vote him out. Judas.

Black Adam on February 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Sorry, haven’t read the thread yet but my rant it is

“.Make them read every single bill, live, on tv and radio, before voting.”

End rant

riverrat10k on February 11, 2009 at 6:01 PM

Haven’t finished thread yet, but already see a proposal for a death comittee to decide your fate. Holy shit. I need a lot more ammo.

riverrat10k on February 11, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Arlen Spector Asshat Sphincter.

FIFY Senator.

profitsbeard on February 11, 2009 at 8:57 PM

This is actually one of the most frightening part of this bill. This should be called the “We decide who dies bill”.

My God, people, do you really want a government bureaucrat (can never spell it) deciding your health care needs rather than you and your doctor?

riverrat10k on February 11, 2009 at 9:37 PM

I sure hope we are still talking about this in 2010. I have been wanting Specter to lose his seat for years. If you are gonna vote like a liberal, you had might as well join the Democrats.

I heard him on Hannity this week say that he would prefer that this stimulus bill was more like the Reagan tax cuts, but this should work too. In other words, he said he likes less spending and tax cuts, but doing the exact opposite works??? He is nothing but a true lifelong politician. And I consider the term “politician” a huge insult.

jeffn21 on February 12, 2009 at 12:05 PM

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