AP: About Obama’s “no pork” assertion…

posted at 8:55 am on February 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Barack Obama made the claim at least twice yesterday that the stimulus bill had no pork in it.   In his prime-time press conference, Obama almost angrily rejected the notion that the Generational Theft Act contained pork:

But what I — what I’ve been concerned about is some of the language that’s been used suggesting that this is full of pork and this is wasteful government spending, so on and so forth. …

But when they start characterizing this as pork without acknowledging that there are no earmarks in this package — something, again, that was pretty rare over the last eight years — then you get a feeling that maybe we’re playing politics instead of actually trying to solve problems for the American people.

And earlier in the day, during his Elkhart town-hall meeting:

And, listen, I know that there are a lot of folks out there who’ve been saying, “Oh, this is pork, and this is money that’s going to be wasted,” and et cetera, et cetera. Understand, this bill does not have a single earmark in it, which is unprecedented for a bill of this size, does not have a single earmark in it.

In a literal sense, that’s true — but only because the stimulus bill is essentially an Omnibus Earmark Package.  It consists entirely of local and state projects that would normally only get funded as earmarks on other appropriations.  Even the Associated Press calls shenanigans on this claim:

THE FACTS: There are no “earmarks,” as they are usually defined, inserted by lawmakers in the bill. Still, some of the projects bear the prime characteristics of pork – tailored to benefit specific interests or to have thinly disguised links to local projects.

For example, the latest version contains $2 billion for a clean-coal power plant with specifications matching one in Mattoon, Ill., $10 million for urban canals, $2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars, and $255 million for a polar icebreaker and other “priority procurements” by the Coast Guard.

And how did Obama sell this to the good folks in Elkhart?  By using the same, old, tired pork-barrel pledges he supposedly rejected:

Obama told his Elkhart audience that Indiana will benefit from work on “roads like U.S. 31 here in Indiana that Hoosiers count on.” He added: “And I know that a new overpass downtown would make a big difference for businesses and families right here in Elkhart.”

That’s pork, no matter what Obama calls it.  The stimulus package contains nothing but porky, wasteful spending, most of which has little chance of creating jobs within the first year, when jobs will be most needed.  Obama even sells it like pork.  If it looks like a pig, acts like a pig, gets sold as a pig, and stinks of pork, it’s not difficult to identify it.


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Can someone, anyone, anywhere explain how tax cuts inspire growth in THIS economy. Please don’t spout dogma, actually justify what you see happening if capital gains/income taxes are significantly reduced, even below Bush levels. Do people honestly believe that any profit taking will go back into the economy. No one is into risky investment right now and everyone has debt. Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Reality is now dogma? No wonder you are a liberal.

If you would bother looking at anything other than Obama’s picture, you will see that people are investing all over this country. Right this very minute.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM

I don’t think anyone’s misconceiving Puerto Rico here. The issue here is pure plain pork and what most struck me most was the difference between how much pork the small territory Puerto Rico is requesting versus how much pork the large state of Pennsylvania is requesting.

The total of cost of all the projects submitted by Pennsylvania is $4,448,759,130

The total of cost of all the projects submitted by Puerto Rico is $22,093,054,016

Thanks for pointing that out…wanna see how much Erie (where I live) is gonna get. Haven’t had a chance to check it out. Sorry!

misslizzi on February 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM

something, again, that was pretty rare over the last eight years — then you get a feeling that maybe we’re playing politics

In the same breath…wow, what a complete douche.

Grafted on February 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Scary??

Where in the world were you taken to?

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Here: Stimulus Watch
Check it out!
But it will scare you, too, I guar-an-tee.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Lay-Z: Are you from New Orleans? if so, I would be interested in hearing what is ACTUALLY happening down there. One cannot trust the press to be accurate and I am wondering.

jeanie on February 10, 2009 at 9:59 AM

I’ve lived here for nearly two years and in Baton Rouge for about three and a half before that. My wife is a native and grew up in Algiers.

The misinformation of what goes down here is amazing. The media never mentions that Jefferson and St Tammany parishes are thriving. St Bernard Parish was completley under water and is coming back. All three were solid red in the past election. Biloxi was hit worse by the storm and today looks like nothing ever happened to it.

I live in Lakeveiw and it’s coming back strong. Then again its mostly a middle class to upper middle class and probably where most of NOLAs conservatives live. There were even rumors that they wanted Jefferson Parish to annex the district.

The people bitching in NOLA are people who’ve mooched off the government long before Katrina. Yet they keep voting for people like Nagin. It was a miracle that Jefferson wasn’t reelected but I’ll bet that Cao will be out in 2010 and replaced by another corrupt Democrat.

Lay-Z on February 10, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Wow! Our Reps think that We The People or the ones that were smart enough to not vote for him. Are stupid! It is nothing but Pork! oink oink!!! This isn’t a dream Mr. Obama………or maybe it is.

sheebe on February 10, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Can someone, anyone, anywhere explain how tax cuts inspire growth in THIS economy.

An extensive immersion in the writings of Milton Friedman is mandatory.

Do people honestly believe that any profit taking will go back into the economy.

Yes and we not only believe it, we know it to be true.

Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more. DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Wrong!
Supply-side economics work.
See the effect of tax cuts under JFK, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Can someone, anyone, anywhere explain how tax cuts inspire growth in THIS economy. Please don’t spout dogma, actually justify what you see happening if capital gains/income taxes are significantly reduced, even below Bush levels. Do people honestly believe that any profit taking will go back into the economy. No one is into risky investment right now and everyone has debt. Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

For some one that really has no clue as to what the mechanisms of job creation and preservation requires, it’s obvious that you’ve never owned or ran a business. Your observations are amusing at best and your economic prowess/intelligence is simply limited. But please continue—the entertainment portion is beyond reproach.

Rovin on February 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Here: Stimulus Watch
Check it out!
But it will scare you, too, I guar-an-tee.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM

And BO says there is no Pork in there? That is scary! I made a few calls but no human is answering their phones. Figures.

sheebe on February 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Lay-Z: Thanks. I had a hunch that the spirit of help ones self was alive down there as it is in much of this country. What ever happened to the press who used to be proud to report the courage,resourcefulness and inventiveness of our people? Guess that doesn’t sell papers or get free money. Anyway, congrats and I hope things continue to improve for you all down there. It’s nice to hear good news.

jeanie on February 10, 2009 at 10:36 AM

The economy was much worse in 1982, and Reagan rescued it with a tax cuts only bill.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Stimuluswatch.org

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 9:02 AM

Thanks so much for posting that link. The detailed info provided demonstrates how overwhelmingly pork-laden this bill is.

Must reading.

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Puerto Rico is very well represented in Congress by the Senators from New York. Remember Bill Clinton’s midnight pardon of the FALN terrorists? That was a straight out pander to get Hillary the votes of Puerto Rican emigres who live in New York.

I would love to have been in the room in Elkhart yesterday and announce that $22 billion of their tax money was going to Puerto Rico.

BTW, I would guess PR is getting hammered right now in the tourist trade. Many Wall Street firms and other corporations have executive retreats and other corporate meetings there. I’ve been to El Conquistador twice for such meetings, and my former company had one scheduled in 2007 which was canceled when the company lost $900 million in 4Q 2006.

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Ok, those three congressmen, the only one that is really in tune of the needs of Puerto Rico is Jose Serrano. The other two are incredibly liberal, full of themselves and pretend to work on behalf of the people of PR when it is convenient for them to get press in Puerto Rico; but they really respond to the “barrio”. Gutierrez and the other one (name escapes me), had a lot to do with the terrorist’s pardoning, along with the 3% of “independentistas” that seek independence from the US. They ride that bandwagon, again, to get media attention in PR. Whether that benefitted Hillary or not, I am not aware or certain. Those two always worked on pretending to do justice or goodness when it was convenient for them. (Clintons and congressmen)

Puerto Rico is getting hammered mainly in tourism and pharmaceutical industries, leaving the Island and/or cutting jobs and transferring them to other countries.

On the tourism side, there are just a bunch of dumbasses that don’t focus on advertising, promoting the island (look at the Jamaica commercials!) I understand some hotels have closed and they started the all-inclusive hotels AFTER Dominican Republic had a couple already. I have been told how cruise staff informs tourists as soon as they dock, where to go and not to. Ok, but don’t make it sound like you are docking in the middle of Afghanistan!

Let me read the stimulus “lechon”, “cerdo” “marrano”, etc. that supposedly will go to PR…thanks. ps: Conquistador is a DAMN awesome hotel!!!!

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 10:41 AM

And BO says there is no Pork in there? That is scary! I made a few calls but no human is answering their phones. Figures.

sheebe on February 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

I spent $20 to send blast faxes to Zerobama and all 42 GOP Senators through the Center for Individual Freedom.
I called my Senators last week, but maybe I should do it again.
And I emailed them, too.
Let’s not forget Congress, either, because Porkulus will be going back to them soon.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:42 AM

So people have called me dumb and they’ve told me about things that happened under Reagan, Kennedy and Bush I (periods of time when we had a functioning financial sector and when there wasn’t a combination of commercial/residential real estate collapse, while we fought two wars) but no one actually has been able to say “these three things will happen in this investment environment.” Is the claim that suddenly investors won’t want to pay down debts first? Is the claim that investors will all decide as a group that it’s time to invest in the stock market even as the vast majority of americans whose tax cuts are small, will still be saving because they aren’t sure about their job prospects. Is the claim that we’re going to have an investment economy that’s entirely run by individual private folks without hedge funds or investment banks. WHAT is the scenario. Until then you’re all just bluffing and calling me names (hint, it doesn’t phase me :)

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM

For the last f*cking time. It’s NOT 1982. Oy there’s nothing like the Carter tax code to “reduce” we’re still in the Bush tax era which isn’t all that different than the Reagan tax era. Come on Mark, do more than talk history. How does it work THIS time.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Notice how Obama keeps coming back to “the last eight years” justification for his spending?

catmman on February 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM

It’s part of the official Dim talking points (probably written by Rahm Emanuel). Yesterday I heard a Dim Congresswoman and a Dim cabinet appointee both using the same line in different interviews, on different networks.

It’s a catchy line, but it conveniently leaves out the fact that the Dims have been in control of Congress (and therefore in control of spending) for the last two years. It also conveniently leaves out the fact that it was the Dim Congress that passed the disastrous first TARP, and failed to provide adequate oversight. I saw a report on FNC this morning that nearly $80 billion of the first TARP is completely unaccounted for — meaning, the money has been spent, but nobody knows where it went. Unbelievable. But certainly we should trust these same fools with another trillion or so, right?

AZCoyote on February 10, 2009 at 10:47 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:44 AM

DUMB isn’t the word (description) I had in mind…

Keemo on February 10, 2009 at 10:47 AM

DeathToMediaHacks:

To put it simply, if a capital gains tax cut allows you to pull profits out of investments that haven’t tanked are you:
1. More likely to put that directly back into the economy and risk losing the one area you haven’t lost already
2. More likely to put it into a savings account so at least it won’t deplete like the parts of your portfolio that did.

You cannot sell something to realize capital gains unless there is someone willing to buy your stuff. Someone else invests in the thing when you sell your investment; there is no loss of investment in the economy due to that transaction.

Furthermore, no one (other than the national government, apparently) will buy your stuff unless they think that they can make a profit by doing so. Free markets are a net positive game, not a zero sum game, moron.

Leaving that aside, unless the profits are stuffed into a mattress, of course they go back into the economy. What do you think banks do with the deposits into savings accounts, CDs, etc? Bury them in the parking lot?

Because you appear to be stupid, I will provide an answer to what should be a rhetorical question: No, the banks lend those deposits to people willing to take a risk with them.

Finally, cutting taxes ALWAYS provides additional incentive to take risk because cutting taxes ALWAYS increases the reward for taking risk.

Give that some thought before you open your mouth and prove things again.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Hey Death,

As I explained last time. The economy is not as bad as Obama has told you it is.

Your claim that nobody will invest is countermanded by the evidence.

You know, that real world thingy that you’ve spent most of your life ignoring.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 10:53 AM

The financial sector has not collapsed. A few companies are in trouble, yes, but not the entire sector.

The housing market is soft,yet. But people are still building and buying homes all over this country.

The economy is not in that bad a shape.

I know that your messiah has told you that it is, but he’s lying. He is more interested in panicing the people so that he can pass things that have nothing to do with economic stimulation.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Oy there’s nothing like the Carter tax code to “reduce”

Inter alia, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

Again, you are wrong.

You don’t really come here for the hunting, do you?

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 10:55 AM

I wonder if Obama has even considered that the increase in battery production and technology still has to have an energy supply to charge the little suckers.

Rovin on February 10, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Not to worry! I’m sure Obama will pull a handful of dylithium crystals out of his arse! Signs and wonders!

It’s all part of his campaign promise to take the auto industry completely off oil in ten years. The auto industry is following his lead – all the concept cars at the auto show come without engines! Now that’s fuel efficiency!

Mr_Magoo on February 10, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Anybody related to the troops here can comment anything to get a feel of their situation?

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 10:19 AM

My husband works with a lot of civilians, at a government agency. The military generally are very unsure about the future as it pertains to Obama; the civilians are either very for him or dislike him greatly. I worry about the pro-Obama people, because these people can see no wrong in him, and they work at a very important (to our national security) agency. My husband will re-up, but only because it’ll be the only job he can get in two years.

Anna on February 10, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Can someone, anyone, anywhere explain how tax cuts inspire growth in THIS economy. Please don’t spout dogma, actually justify what you see happening if capital gains/income taxes are significantly reduced, even below Bush levels. Do people honestly believe that any profit taking will go back into the economy. No one is into risky investment right now and everyone has debt. Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Just curious; do you think the savings rate is disconnected from other macroeconomic phenomena “in THIS economy”?

DrSteve on February 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM

actually justify what you see happening if capital gains/income taxes are significantly reduced, even below Bush levels.

Certainly. It’s really easy. Imagine you lower income taxes. Not as a one time thing, but as a long term rate reduction, so that it can be counted on. Now imagine that you’re thinking of starting a small business — or of closing one. Lower taxes go right to the calculations of whether the whole thing is worth it.

Splunge on February 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Paying down debt DOES put money into the economy.

The dude who lent it has his money back plus interest.

The dude who paid it off is relieved of both the principal and the interest owed.

Both end up in a better financial position with a greater ability to take future risks.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM

He is trying to redirect the arguement, saying there are no earmarks. 90% of the bill is pork, period. Doesn’t matter if 10,000 people call a dog a horse, it still doesn’t make that dog a horse.

I think what Obama means is, if we don’t pass this bill now, he will never get a second chance to implement his great socialism plan. Haste makes waste.

la.rt.wngr on February 10, 2009 at 11:01 AM

OMG…(reading Puerto Rico)

I am reading Puerto Rico-I barely am on letter “C” and 7/10 are unnecessary b/c there were moneys allocated (supposedly) from the prior administration? (?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!)

I support any projects that expand and connect to RT-52 because that is a big one that runs mostly on the northern part of the island. (I am familiar with the area). Head Starts – somebody has to explain to me why. Does not make sense to me.

Caguas-train system “Tren Urbano”-I understand the need to expand from Cupey to Caguas because that has been talked about for years when the train system was built. But I don’t want it in this porkulus; unless I know for sure that Caguas’ mayor has started working on it already and it needs more funding. The train system took YEARS to build, test, so this is a 4-8 year project!!!!!!!!!!!!! This started in the early 90′s!

Anything related to communities, town plazas, etc., town mayors are the ones asking for those funds to the governor. Low-income housing, apartments and such, are federally funded and must NOT be put in this pork.

Will keep reading. Dang!

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Hacks,

Obama’s bill gives up to a $1000 tax rebate to about 22 million people. Why don’t you ask him how that is supposed to work in this economy? He asked the House for $2 in tax cuts for every $3 in spending. (They gave him $1 in tax cuts for every $2 in spending – so even their bill has $400 billion in tax cuts, almost half of the total of Bush’s tax cut). So obviously even he believes that tax cuts work in some way. This debate is decidedly NOT a “spending vs. tax cuts” debate.

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 11:03 AM

There is a strong argument that most people should not be into “risky” investment, but rather into more stable ventures.

Only those who can afford the loss should be into risky things, lest we end up… umm… where we are today.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Ummm… do you know ANYTHING about business?

Those savings accounts you are complaining about are what banks use as the basis to LOAN money!

In fact, using Fractional Lending techniques, each dollar SAVED is used to generate up to NINE more dollars loaned out… thus freeing up the credit market, which is at the basis of the Problem according to your Messiah.

If everyone pulls their money out of the bank, and spends it, then the BANKS COLLAPSE!

Romeo13 on February 10, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Stimuluswatch.org

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 9:02 AM

Thanks so much for posting that link. The detailed info provided demonstrates how overwhelmingly pork-laden this bill is.

Must reading.

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM

$100,000 for DOORBELLS?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!??!

teffertoes on February 10, 2009 at 11:07 AM

New Energy Efficiency Industrial Zones 100 Acres:
$17,500,000,000.00

I’ve searched the web and found nothing about this project except the few words found in the Stimulus bill. How can there be no public information about a proposed $17.5 billion project?

However, (irony alert), I have found a 2007 Herald-Tribune item that might explain Cidra, Puerto Rico’s need:

Energy costs, lost tax breaks make pharmaceutical plants retreat from Puerto Rico

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Improve track and land for little league parking Cidra PR 43 $150,000,000 CDBG -172

Familiy Recreation Park Facility Cidra PR 428 $15,000,000 CDBG -6

I am gonna fwd. this website to all friends and family. Press in PR is not covering this AT ALL!

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 11:16 AM

no earmarks, thank god because the entire bill is one big massive pig crap sandwich full of social engineering programs, and no long term job stimulus

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on February 10, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Here: Stimulus Watch
Check it out!
But it will scare you, too, I guar-an-tee.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Great information, thanks for posting the link.

Just to be clear, though, the projects listed on that site are NOT in the bill, they are local projects HOPING to get funded once the federal pork, er, funds are available.

Kinda like a gang rape of the taxpayers.

dinobalz on February 10, 2009 at 11:20 AM

You cannot sell something to realize capital gains unless there is someone willing to buy your stuff. Someone else invests in the thing when you sell your investment; there is no loss of investment in the economy due to that transaction.

Wait a minute, so if I own share in a company that has appreciated in value and I (and a bunch of other people) sell our shares we can only do so when someone wants to buy them. Then how is it that people “sell” shares when they realize a company is beginning to spiral towards irrelevancy, they find some pasty to buy them? Or..more likely, companies can actually lose value. I can’t believe you’re actually arguing that when you liquify shares there’s no loss of capital in the investment market…dude.

As for the comments on the savings rate. I think an increase in the savings rate is what the nation desperately needs. Our culture of spending on credit was/is flawed and as Obama said can not continue forever. But while people need to save, whats going to power consumption? Again, NOT tax cuts, people have debt to pay off. The government is going to have to step in.

So once again, if your response is “savings rate good” then you’re not making a case for immediate stimulus. Perhaps you don’t think any immediate stimulus is possible or a good thing. Fine, but then don’t get upset when Obama characterizes your position as “do nothing.”

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Talk about tilting at windmills! Plug-in RVs? How many years away is that? What’s the miles per charge going to be on a hybrid RV? 100 yards? What a panderer! Unbelievable. Of course, the dolts in the crowd applaud!

Mr_Magoo on February 10, 2009 at 9:47 AM

No, not windmills, because Teddy won’t let those be built — at least not in his “backyard”. The only technology we have right now to adequately charge all those batteries is either nuclear or coal.

If Obama promised me a Mr. Fusion, I might sign on, but to go solar or wind would mean cutting down all my redwoods, and I couldn’t handle all the blood from the treehuggers.

unclesmrgol on February 10, 2009 at 11:29 AM

So once again, if your response is “savings rate good” then you’re not making a case for immediate stimulus. Perhaps you don’t think any immediate stimulus is possible or a good thing. Fine, but then don’t get upset when Obama characterizes your position as “do nothing.”

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Eager to do your master’s bidding today, I see.

You don’t have a firm grasp on my argument, that’s for sure.

DrSteve on February 10, 2009 at 11:38 AM

… since I was merely asking you a question.

DrSteve on February 10, 2009 at 11:38 AM

As for the comments on the savings rate. I think an increase in the savings rate is what the nation desperately needs. Our culture of spending on credit was/is flawed and as Obama said can not continue forever. But while people need to save, whats going to power consumption? Again, NOT tax cuts, people have debt to pay off. The government is going to have to step in.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Dude!
You are posting way above your pay grade, not to mention your IQ level!
You can’t expect us to save and power consumption!
You can either do one or the other, but not both.
Economics for Dummies (including DeathtoMediaHacks of which he is one):
There are only 4 things you can do with a dollar:
1.Save it
OR
2. Spend it
OR
3. Invest it (which is a variation of spending it)
OR
4. Pay it out in taxes (also a variation of spending it, but it’s under duress and not voluntary)

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Do people honestly believe that any profit taking will go back into the economy

Er, where do you think profit goes? Do you think people stuff huge sums in mattresses these days? Where else could the profit go but in someone’s bank account? Even if the bank doesn’t lend that money out at a high rate, it helps shore up their balance sheet, reducing the risk they’ll go under (which would produce additional unemployment).

…Reducing taxes will just increase the savings rate, nothing more.

Economies improve when savings rates go up, because that is where the money for investment – risky or otherwise – comes from.

JDPerren on February 10, 2009 at 11:39 AM

“…255 million for a polar icebreaker and other “priority procurements” by the Coast Guard”.

My initial reaction was …Coast Guard Polar Icebreaker! Dreaded melting ice! Stranded polar bears! Global Warming! – this does not compute.

Then I imagined a fleet of Al Gore houseboats gliding through the polar waters with PETA members for the crew saving the bears and penguins (and maybe even wolves) .. it now makes sense to me.

Beckham on February 10, 2009 at 11:39 AM

something, again, that was pretty rare over the last eight years — then you get a feeling that maybe we’re playing politics
In the same breath…wow, what a complete douche.

Grafted on February 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Breathtaking, ain’t it? He’s such a jerk.

capitalist piglet on February 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

I love it when liberals proudly display their ignorance.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM

I spent $20 to send blast faxes to Zerobama and all 42 GOP Senators through the Center for Individual Freedom.
I called my Senators last week, but maybe I should do it again.
And I emailed them, too.
Let’s not forget Congress, either, because Porkulus will be going back to them soon.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 10:42 AM

I sent a few faxes also. I can’t tell you how many emails I have sent in the last two weeks. Tons! It isn’t to late to keep fighting. I won’t stop either. Have to live up to the Aries in me.

sheebe on February 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Is the claim that suddenly investors won’t want to pay down debts first? WHAT is the scenario? DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Why would investors have any incentive to pay down their debts when their government is about to create more debt at any time in our nation’s history with no intention or written plan/responsibilty to pay this debt? This is the reckless scenario that will set a precedence that (if followed or imulated) WILL hasten this nation down the path of economic collapse. While you choose to ignore and disregard historical facts that were well learned lessons, (for those that comprehended) and errors that were made by previous world leaders in making economic decisions, what part about GOVERNMENT SPENDING PROGRAMS HAVE NEVER PRODUCED AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY EVER, do you refuse to comprehend?

Wall street investor’s balance sheets do not concern me. Small businesses across this country make up the bulk of the real capital and revenue that drives this system. THEY are the one’s that create wealth, jobs, and the tax base which supplies our government with the money to provide our infrustructure, and NOT CREATE SOCIAL POLICY at the expense of the taxpayer. It has always been the over-extention of credit allowed by our government that has been the root cause of recessions and depressions. But, it seems every thirty years or so, we have to learn this lesson again. IT’S CALLED HISTORY.

Rovin on February 10, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Death actually believes that if taxes are reduced, then the money will just go into savings.
On the other hand, if the govt hands out money, that money won’t go into savings.

And to think, liberals actually believe that they can do basic logic.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 11:47 AM

The financial sector has not collapsed. A few companies are in trouble, yes, but not the entire sector.

The housing market is soft,yet. But people are still building and buying homes all over this country.

The economy is not in that bad a shape.

I know that your messiah has told you that it is, but he’s lying. He is more interested in panicing the people so that he can pass things that have nothing to do with economic stimulation.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Mark, I totally agree with you–the economy isn’t in that bad a shape.
I saw the stats for the highest foreclosure rate in the country–it was Somewhere, Nevada–and it was only 0.7% of the whole housing market there.
Problem is, the more NObama keeps talking it down, the more it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and become reality.
Won’t someone (like Boehner or McCain) step up and say what you just said in front of a microphone?

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 12:05 PM

The guy who buys the stock thinks he can make money from it; otherwise he would not buy it. Dunno why you sold it, and it doesn’t matter. All free market transactions are positive sum.

Also, all free market transactions are forward looking. It is irrelevant if the investment lost money yesterday. Water under the bridge; spilt milk; bygones; money that has already been lost from the market.

The fact of your selling it does not change the contemporaneous valustion of the investment market. The guy who buys it from you rationally believes that he can make money on it, without regard for your (so called) abilities.

You, apparently, believe that the world is not made up of multiple rational actors with differing circumstances. You appear only to believe in grifters and chumps.

In other news, neither you nor the President know what my position is on national stimulus, so either of you characterizing it is dishonest.

I’ll help you out, though, so you can live the straight and narrow.

The stimulus bill should cut the national capital, corporate, dividends, and personal tax rates;

it should remove restrictions and provide incentives for nuclear power plants and petroleum refineries;

it should remove restrictions and provide incentives for oil exploration, production, and delivery from all of our coasts plus the original oil development area of ANWR;

it should remove restrictions and provide incentives for exploration, production, and delivery of petroleum from the oil shale region of the Rockies;

it should remove national subsidies for food-crop based fuels;

it should fund an immediate restocking / refurbishment / replacement for all of the military hardware that we have been using in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it should move forward all military procurement already budgeted for future years;

it should fund at least a division increase for the active duty Army, a similar increase for the Marines, and an increase to at least a 375 ship Navy (including a fast tracking of the railgun destroyer development), plus whatever the zoomies can justify;

it should fully fund and schedule a physical fence along the Southern border;

it should increase the size of the Border Patrol to a level capable of monitoring the fence;

it should provide for education vouchers in order to at long last bring effective competition to primary and secondary education (given that the national government won’t get out of something that should be left only to the States).

That’d be a good start.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Why is NOBODY, especially Republicans, even mentioning the $4 billion that ACORN is getting?

13Girl on February 10, 2009 at 12:09 PM

er… that last was in response to DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM

So, Steve Wynn in Las Vegas, one of the most successful gaming moguls evah, has begun to lay off employees, cut hours, stop bonuses and eliminate matching 401K contributions. Why? Well, let’s see, tourism is down so profits are down.

So, what’s a guy that likes his multi-million dollar income to do when costs need to be cut? Well, his taxes aren’t going down, in fact with the new Democratic majorities in both Nevada houses, they are likely to be going up. Hmmm….what to do? Well, since he can’t get around those taxes, why not get rid of a few employees and their perks. Ah, eureka!

Death, this bill may perk up the employment rate short term, but the bill will come due and then what? More taxes, less money for private individuals to spend and save, more government spending. It’s a vicious cycle. Ever heard of the axion, when you find yourself in the whole, quit digging?
Sometimes the cure really is worse than the sickness.

Jvette on February 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM

For the last f*cking time. It’s NOT 1982.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:44 AM

You are right. 1982 was much, much worse.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 12:11 PM

How many ear marks can an ear mark mark if an ear mark could mark ears?

Herb on February 10, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Rush is reporting that Arlen Spector did not even know the Health care stuff was in this crap bill. Nice how uninformed Congress is./

becki51758 on February 10, 2009 at 12:17 PM

OH and Death, answer me this. If you and your messiah are afraid that people will only pay off debt or put money into savings, what do you think might happen when people are feeling a little more secure with less debt and some money in savings?

We own three cars, one a 1987, one a 1990, and one a 1991. We have never owned a new car, had other ways to spend the money. Now, we find ourselves in a position to maybe add a car payment to the monthly bills. But, we are still leery of putting ourselves into debt for an item that will only lose value the older it gets. Now, if we were paying less taxes, in others words, keeping more of our income, we might feel that it was worth the risk. I bet there are millions of Americans like us who want to buy items but aren’t feeling secure enough right now to purchase them.

Lower taxes=more spending without the government going into further debt.

Jvette on February 10, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Thanks to whomever put up the Stimulus Watch link. I just checked out my little suburb here in Cook County and I’m literally sick to my stomach at the waste. But better yet the way out city officials have lied to us.

Knucklehead on February 10, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Death, just as you have on other threads, you assume that we don’t want any taxes or government spending. And you have accused lots of us of being blind faith supporters of Pres. Bush. Do you have any idea what’s in this thing?

Most of it is just orgasmic liberal wet dream spending.

Jvette on February 10, 2009 at 12:26 PM

You are right. 1982 was much, much worse.

MarkTheGreat on February 10, 2009 at 12:11 PM

–10.8 percent unemployment
–8.4 percent inflation
–FHA mortgage rate 17%
–No indexing of tax brackets for inflation – middle class geting thrown into higher and higher tax brackets
–Dow Jones Industrial Average 850 (15% off recent high of 1000)

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 10:44 AM

In simplest terms:
Tax cuts, in particular, Capitol Gains, means more money for businesses to spend on growing the business.
That means more job opportunities for workers,
That means more workers investing in their 401K’s,
More 401K investments go to investors that invest in businesses,
more business investment means more money for businesses to grow and hire, which brings in more tax revenue.

It’s all a vicious circle I know, but that’s your answer using lots of pictures and no big words.

Kini on February 10, 2009 at 12:33 PM

There is a strong argument that most people should not be into “risky” investment, but rather into more stable ventures.

Only those who can afford the loss should be into risky things, lest we end up… umm… where we are today.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Not to worry, if things don’t work out as planned, just get a bailout from the taxpayers.

belad on February 10, 2009 at 12:33 PM

How many ear marks can an ear mark mark if an ear mark could mark ears?

Herb on February 10, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Thanks, now I have to clean the coffee from my monitor and keyboard. LMAO

belad on February 10, 2009 at 12:38 PM

DeathToMediaHacks on February 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

When I stated that each of your posts further prove that you are more stupid than I thought…you support my premise with this kind of post.

Then how is it that people “sell” shares when they realize a company is beginning to spiral towards irrelevancy

Kids in 6th grade know the answer to this…6th grade.

credit was/is flawed and as Obama said can not continue forever

And we are borrowing trillions to bail us out? Good analogy, if you are a conservative. Obama is a fool for proposing this, at a huge credit risk.

But while people need to save, whats going to power consumption?

Perhaps the most foolish of all your statements (which must have been difficult)
Do you actually think that bank savings go into a little box and is kept out of circulation? Where do you think banks get the money to loan out to businesses…
I must say, your post was a doozy, and I now better understand how Obama was elected, if most of the liberals think and have an education like yours…it makes sense.
Unbelievable how ignorant you liberals are.

right2bright on February 10, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Just for fun, I tried to call the White House. Busy, busy, busy, they’re so busy, not selling pork but shoving it down our throats that they had to take the phone off the hook.
Already they’re cutting back on gov’t jobs…NOT.

Christine on February 10, 2009 at 12:41 PM

*talking to a friend in San Juan, Puerto Rico*…

This is nothing but a “wish list” from these mayors, what they want for their cities, so they look good, that they fwd’d to the Governor, who then fwds. them to the RC…

If those issues are in the platform or not, I dunno…but San Juan, that mayor tends to put things in writing (formal platform) before elections, has his website…from what she told me, there are things that she did not know were intended to be built but would be good, a couple that already are work in progress but is surprised to find them there.

Many of these cities were hit by manufacturers leaving Puerto Rico, laying off workers, pharmaceuticals and such. To me, it seems that those areas were developed b/c of these corporations; once they left it was not good at all for these cities. Add to that bad planning/assessment of housing vs. water capabilities = needing more expansions-rehab of water facilities.

Sucks.

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Well, Death, you and yours have gotten your wish. Not that I really expected otherwise. How about you change your moniker to “DeathtoAmerica” for that is what this will bring.

Jvette on February 10, 2009 at 12:46 PM

you get a feeling that maybe we’re playing politics instead of actually trying to solve problems for the American people

DarkCurrent on February 10, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Nice how uninformed Congress is./

becki51758 on February 10, 2009 at 12:17 PM

I’ve just read the House Stimulus bill. The bill modifies other, previously passed bills and states that money shall be spent on unspecified projects that meet the requirements of those other bills. You have to know all the requirements of all the other referenced bills, then know which unnamed projects might meet those criteria. It’s like reading a several hundred page document that’s written in secret code. It’s as transparent as lead. I doubt that any more than a handful in Congress know what is really in this bill. You try figuring it out.

Here’s the pdf link:

HR 1: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM

WOW…Nothing for Erie, PA??? The third largest city in PA?

Erie does not need anything! :-O

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 12:53 PM

you get a feeling that maybe we’re playing politics instead of actually trying to solve problems for the American people

DarkCurrent on February 10, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Uh, no.
I don’t get that feeling.
I’m one of the American people and this Porkulus bill is a problem itself that doesn’t solve problems–it creates them.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Many, many bills are written that way. Check out the 2007 gun ban bill (2007 H.R. 1022) proposed by the Dems for another example. Took me two hours to run down all the references and figure out what they proposed to do the various statutes.

I’m pretty sure that they do it on purpose.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM

There is nothing but pork in this bill. So much that the Keith Ellison (D-Minnesota)is afraid to vote for it!!!

Reagan said: Government is NOT the solution, government is THE problem.

Obama: We are in a crisis and we must pass this bill or we may NEVER recover.

Can you just feel the OZZING confidence in Obama? What happened to “hope”?

WEe are in big trouble with this turd.

dthorny on February 10, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Barry fails the test for character and integrity. What a sad little child.

Christien on February 10, 2009 at 1:01 PM

It passed.

Move your outrage to the tarp crap sandwich.

Keep in mind, these are hail mary’s trying to clean up a inherited economic disaster.

Arguing that nothing is your party’s fault is like arguing with children never taking the blame for anything.

Grow up.

getalife on February 10, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Yes, grow up, Barry. Resolve your Daddy Issues and stop foisting them on the world.

Christien on February 10, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Rovin on February 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Senator Specter:

At 79, you’re too old for medical treatment under the new rationing program.

Senator, when you voted for the ‘stimulus’ bill, you unwittingly voted for the massive new health care rationing program buried within it.

“Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan”, by Betsy McCaughey, in Bloomberg.com, February 10, 2009, reveals the health care rationing program within the stimulus bill:

… [recite several paragraphs from the article]…

Senator, you are 79 now, I believe. You’d best watch your health, as you’re too old to get treatment under the new rationing system the next time you get sick.

As became apparent during your interview with Fox News this morning, you voted for this Trojan Horse of a bill without even reading it. That’s gross negligence, Senator, if not reckless disregard for the responsibilities of your office.

It also rightfully ensures your defeat in the upcoming election.

Respectfully,

petefrt on February 10, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 12:54 PM

I agree with you 100%. I was simply quoting the disingenuous and intellectually dishonest President of the our once and future great nation, “DeathToMediaHacks” Obama

DarkCurrent on February 10, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Wait a minute, I get it now!…They put lipstick on ‘the pig’ so that makes it…a stimulus bill!
This man is just full of deep, intelligent nuance!

Christine on February 10, 2009 at 1:30 PM

I’m pretty sure that they do it on purpose.

Troll Feeder on February 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Agreed. It’s complete lack of transparency was the only aspect of the bill that I was able to figure out.

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Yea, don’t you just love the ‘health care’ plan they shoved in there? I would like Arlen, Teddy and Ruthie Ginsburg to be the first to forgo the health care that our tax dollars pay for…What’s that you say? They have enough money to pay for it themselves (but won’t) and they flipped you the bird when you asked them to ‘go first’? My, my, the bi-partisanship is wearing pretty thin.

Christine on February 10, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Did the Dow spike up with these marvelous news? /sarc

ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 1:52 PM

Loxodonta on February 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM

heh..I already did. I got more info off Michelle Malkin’s site and Glenn Beck’s site. Perhaps Congress shouldve checked them out!

becki51758 on February 10, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Did the Dow spike up with these marvelous news? /sarc
ProudPalinFan on February 10, 2009 at 1:52 PM

Makes total sense to value the opinions of the idiots who did so much to get us into this situation in the first place.

Constantine on February 10, 2009 at 2:08 PM

Arguing that nothing is your party’s fault is like arguing with children never taking the blame for anything.

Grow up.

getalife on February 10, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Umm, ‘scuse me, but isn’t that what Obama (and you) are doing?
Yet, its funny how a good many of us have pointed out that the sub-prime crisis can indeed be laid at the Democrats’ feet.
And you nailed it with the acting like children remark, too.
If Obama were serious about being a leader and a good president, he wouldn’t talk about blame at all, but just try and present the problem–without exaggerating it–and then propose a rational solution (Hint: A $2-9 trillion pack of pork that will have to be paid for with tax increases isn’t a rational solution)

You grow up. You get a life. You get a brain.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 2:10 PM

getalife –

You still have not answered my question from yesterday.

What’s the crisis?

rockmom on February 10, 2009 at 2:29 PM

Obama is full of it –
A few economists disagree

http://cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

izoneguy on February 10, 2009 at 2:41 PM

No pork . . . just a little Wagyu beef for the cocktail parties. ; ))

Angry Dumbo on February 10, 2009 at 3:18 PM

The people bitching in NOLA are people who’ve mooched off the government long before Katrina. Yet they keep voting for people like Nagin. It was a miracle that Jefferson wasn’t reelected but I’ll bet that Cao will be out in 2010 and replaced by another corrupt Democrat.

Lay-Z on February 10, 2009 at 10:26 AM

I just moved on after living on the Westbank for almost three years. The city squandered their opportunity to make things better by the zeal in making everything just like it was before. Ray Nagin should be in jail.

That being said, where I take some exception with your assessment is the idea that it’s only the welfare culture that are bitching about NOLA. Where I lived, the library was still being run out of trailers THREE years after Katrina and the firehouse at Shirley and DeGaulle was still under a blue tarp until a few months ago. The Westbank roads have virtually been ignored for the infrastructure projects over in the 9th Ward. Part of the reason I left was I got tired of bitching to local and state authorities and getting nothing for my tax dollars.

highhopes on February 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM

I resent the filthy liar’s assumption that the American public is too damned stupid to spot the lies in that trainwreck of a presser he held last night. And based on the idiots gushing over the filthy liar in Florida this afternoon he could well be justified in that assumption when it comes to certain demographics.

Nevertheless, he claimed last night that building a school in SC wasn’t pork. Well, when did the feds take on responsibility for building that school instead of the taxpayers of the county and state where the school is located. This is a local tax issue not an excuse for the filthy liar and his party to spend billions in areas where they can reap political gain in the future.

highhopes on February 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Grow up.

getalife on February 10, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Your drivel might actually have some credibility if we heard one single democrat state that they should not have been on the take with Fannie/Freddie and the corrupt sub-prime policies that got America in this mess.

Please name one amendment or bill that democrats put forward to stop the corrupt practices of Fannie/Freddie.

Growing up would probably require you to know what you are talking about before posting your huffington post talking points:

This is some reality of the mess democrats got America in:

Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1
VIDEO:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Here is a nice time line of the corrupt protection that democrats were paid for in shouting “racism” and “you don’t care about poor people” to keep there sub-prime hustle going.


Guest essay: Fannie and Freddie mess? Blame the Democrats

By JOHN H. PILLA
http://www.publicopiniononline.com/ci_11631591

Capitalism worked well until the government began to limit free markets by forcing the Government Sponsored Enterprises called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make loans to those not worthy of receiving home mortgages (subprime mortgages).
The markets did fine until these actions were undertaken by Democratic administrations.
Here is a list of key events:

Thanks for the failed economy liberals.

Baxter Greene on February 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Baxter, don’t forget the cherry on the sub-prime sundae, also created by DemocRats: the gas “crisis.”
People clinging to the edges of foreclosure were thrown over the edge when gas prices went to $4/gallon.

Jenfidel on February 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM

The democrats sold out this country to line their pockets with their Fannie/Freddie pay offs the same way they sold out this country in undermining the war in Iraq for political gain:

Explosive Video, Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama and the Dems the “Family” and “Conscience” of Fannie Mae

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0&feature=related
VIDEO:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
VIDEO:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

But in liberal land,it’s all Bush’s fault.

who are liberals going to blame when their gutting of our future with theses “Pay for Play” rip off bills quadruple the deficit, making INFLATION the latest problems for democrats to spin and lie about.

IF ONLY BUSH HAD BEEN SUCH A RAMPANT FREE-MARKETEER: “Rewriting history is in full swing as the Bush administration prepares to leave town. Among the more prominent is the assertion that the housing meltdown resulted from unbridled capitalism under a president opposed to all regulation. . . . Rather than a failure of capitalism, the housing meltdown shows what’s likely to happen when government grants special privileges to favored private entities that facilitate bad actors and lousy practices.”

Baxter Greene on February 10, 2009 at 4:03 PM

The democrats sold out this country to line their pockets with their Fannie/Freddie pay offs the same way they sold out this country in undermining the war in Iraq for political gain:

Explosive Video, Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama and the Dems the “Family” and “Conscience” of Fannie Mae

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0&feature=related
VIDEO:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

But in liberal land,it’s all Bush’s fault.

who are liberals going to blame when their gutting of our future with theses “Pay for Play” rip off bills quadruple the deficit, making INFLATION the latest problems for democrats to spin and lie about.

IF ONLY BUSH HAD BEEN SUCH A RAMPANT FREE-MARKETEER: “Rewriting history is in full swing as the Bush administration prepares to leave town. Among the more prominent is the assertion that the housing meltdown resulted from unbridled capitalism under a president opposed to all regulation. . . . Rather than a failure of capitalism, the housing meltdown shows what’s likely to happen when government grants special privileges to favored private entities that facilitate bad actors and lousy practices.”

Baxter Greene on February 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM

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