Quote of the day
posted at 10:00 pm on February 7, 2009 by Allahpundit
“The U.S. government has already—under a conservative Republican administration—effectively nationalized the banking and mortgage industries. That seems a stronger sign of socialism than $50 million for art. Whether we want to admit it or not—and many, especially Congressman Pence and Hannity, do not—the America of 2009 is moving toward a modern European state…
All of this is unfolding in an economy that can no longer be understood, even in passing, as the Great Society vs. the Gipper. Whether we like it or not—or even whether many people have thought much about it or not—the numbers clearly suggest that we are headed in a more European direction. A decade ago U.S. government spending was 34.3 percent of GDP, compared with 48.2 percent in the euro zone—a roughly 14-point gap, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. In 2010 U.S. spending is expected to be 39.9 percent of GDP, compared with 47.1 percent in the euro zone—a gap of less than 8 points. As entitlement spending rises over the next decade, we will become even more French.”










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Robespierre was a hard left-wing radical.
keep the change on February 8, 2009 at 1:12 AM
Oh well, at least the food will be better…
Tzetzes on February 8, 2009 at 1:14 AM
O, what did you see my blue-eyed son?
What did you see my darlin’ young one?
I saw the words “hope” and “change” lit up like a cinder
I saw herds of wild birds as dense as the winter
I saw a red storm a-risin’ to swallow the whole world
I saw a horde of wild donkeys and one lonely squirrel
I saw night time a-blazin’ in the darkness of dawn
I saw thousands a -seein’ and nobody sawin’
I saw quicksand a-fillin’ a beach castle’s pail
I saw credit cards max’ed out and more in the mail
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
Tuning Spork on February 8, 2009 at 1:17 AM
Speakup on February 8, 2009 at 1:20 AM
OT but what the hell…what’s this crud about Barry telling the Pentagon not to send the extra troops to Afghanistan because they don’t have an exit stragegy?
WTFrakkk is that? It’s your job to come up with an exit strategy, Barry. They should come up with a plan alright. One that forms all the troops up into one big aerial shot of a desert tan middle finger.
Limerick on February 8, 2009 at 1:23 AM
You guys really hit the nail on the head.
cjs1943 on February 8, 2009 at 1:25 AM
I think there would be a lot of people on-board with this.
cjs1943 on February 8, 2009 at 1:27 AM
Dylan. Love It!
*
P.S. Great user-name!
Tzetzes on February 8, 2009 at 1:45 AM
Does “Bizarro-Robespierre” work better for you? Since America turning into France would be something of a Bizarro-America, I think Bizarro-Robespierre will be in high demand.
blankminde on February 8, 2009 at 2:06 AM
More adieu than au revoir.
The goodbye (to our limited government past) is more of a permanent -rather than temporary – farewell.
aquaviva on February 8, 2009 at 2:37 AM
The Great American Dream.. pop! Wake up – it’s over! The Greeks are in the city, and there are no Trojans left.
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 3:01 AM
Yes. Emphatically, yes.
Midas on February 8, 2009 at 3:05 AM
this is going to hurts bad, in a decade i’m not sure where the US will be at… maybe you will no longer be able to afford a decent army with all the money blackhole you’re about to create…
and trust me i know about the abyss, i’m french.
sun on February 8, 2009 at 3:17 AM
Where do I sign up?
now don’t lead me on here. I’ve been trying for years to join the “right wing conspiracy” with no luck.
Ampersand on February 8, 2009 at 3:44 AM
I’m about to move out of Texas in a month… I’m starting to think I may be making a huge mistake. The best place to be for the coming revolution is TX….
Oddly enough I will probably be moving to California….. Crazy huh?
Ampersand on February 8, 2009 at 3:49 AM
Ampersand is moving to Calli
And the rest of us are moving to socialism led by four or
five ignorant, arrogant, destructive politicians who thrive because of carefully manicured districts or a frightened nation directed to the wrong escape from fiscal collapse and government corruption by a jaded, dishonest media.
The media and The One have a laughable theory on how to best solve the present problems and develop this country in the future. The sources of this idiocy are their incubator, the academic world, (where dilettants’ spew tres chic opinions, outside of their area of expertise) and the insular habitats of the elite media and their left wing heroes in the world of politics.
An illustration of the dumbness of dumbo:
“From 1981 until 1995, Francois Mitterand served as President of France. He was a Socialist, and implemented numerous socialized programs. He instituted nationalized banks, insurance industries, and defense industries. Workers’ wages increased during his tenure and working hours were reduced. However, when the French economy lagged, he abandoned socialism in 1984 and the French economy revived.
In 1995, Jacques Chirac became President as a member of the conservative Gaullist party. Currently, the French president is Nicholas Sarkozy, in office since 2007.”
Source: European History/Europe: 1945 to Present — Wikip. On Line Emphasis mine.
I shall not add a description of all the problems caused in France by the nanny government crutch and weakness in the face of high immigration and excessive labor union power.
And where is our intelligentsia taking us?
IlikedAUH2O on February 8, 2009 at 4:59 AM
Glenn Jericho on February 8, 2009 at 6:41 AM
Katy, generally I would say I like your comments, but, this one stinks of your own brand of prejudice. See the forest AND the trees.
I am an orthodox, reformed Christian who has spent much time talking with Mormons/LDS about their religion and have seen the effects of this cult in action. When Romney was running, the question was about recognizing a cult group as a legitimate branch of Christianity. Please do not despise evangelicalism so much that you throw out sincere, thinking Christians.
With that said, I always maintained I would vote for Romney in a heartbeat and, of course, I wish I had convinced others to do the same. When you struggle with loved ones over a (well-meaning) cultic group with errant texts and claiming Christianity, it becomes personal. The Christian faith must be defended in EVERY generation regardless of who is running for president. This is what Christians were doing…though, I am sure many, many of them were not doing it well. I regret that.
Mommypundit on February 8, 2009 at 6:51 AM
The religion of the other guy always seems to be a cult. In reality they are all cults based on fables. The golden tablet story is no more ridiculous than the one about the stone ones that god supposedly authored for Moses. At least the Mormons know that Joe Smith was a real historical figure but Abraham and Moses only exist in the religious fables which believers try to pass off as real history.
Annar on February 8, 2009 at 7:15 AM
And therein lies the problem. Politics should never be corrupted – by anything.
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 7:24 AM
We did that a few weeks ago when we thrilled the world by welcoming BO with orgasmic intensity.
jmarcure on February 8, 2009 at 7:31 AM
Singapore is an interesting example, and one we ought to consider emulating since we seem to be in the market for “change.” Completely free economically, less than completely free politically. The Asian model, in other words. If the place wasn’t the size of my thumb, surrounded by hostile Muslims, I’d be taking several looks at it. Given our multicultural, hyphenated population, our unlimited franchise system doesn’t seem to be working.
JiangxiDad on February 8, 2009 at 7:47 AM
Thankfully the Gipper lost, 1/20/2009.
sethstorm on February 8, 2009 at 7:59 AM
I know France. Culturally it´s fine. Politically, it´s a sewer. In terms of personal liberty and individual opportunity, it´s a nightmare.
el gordo on February 8, 2009 at 7:59 AM
That’s not going to happen.
sethstorm on February 8, 2009 at 8:04 AM
Thankfully the Gipper lost, 1/20/2009.
sethstorm on February 8, 2009 at 7:59 AM
The Gipper wasn’t even in the game this time around. You all beat the minor league team.
unseen on February 8, 2009 at 8:18 AM
Nobody should be surprised. All this was predictable as soon as McCain became the Republican nominee for POTUS. If it wasn’t obvious then, it should’ve been when he suspended his presidential campaign to support and help pass the first socialist monstrosity.
Tom Blogical on February 8, 2009 at 8:26 AM
California is already socialist and quickly going down the tubes. There are still many places in the country not infected with the socialist disease. They are usually colored red on the map.
EMD on February 8, 2009 at 8:26 AM
And even before that we had a President who loved to spend money the government didn’t have. I agreed with the military spending, but other than that and the temporary tax cuts, we’ve had 8 solid years of fiscal irresponsibility.
Tom Blogical on February 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM
No, therein lies the problem. Did the Christian faith of most of the Founders corrupt their politics? No, it informed & inspired their politics. It is because more & more Americans see Christianity as either irrelevant or as a corrupting agent that we have jumped the shark.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM
To continue:
Is it just a coincidence that what has historically been the most Christian nation–the USA–has been the most conservative nation?
Is it a coincidence that as we lose one, we’re losing the other?
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 8:33 AM
I doubt that the founding fathers had a real problem in keeping the two apart, while practicing their belief. The problem now is that cults are denying each other the chance to do a job which does not involve said cult. Romney shouldn’t have been rejected by one cult, simply because he belonged to another. Any rejection should have been based solely on his ability to do the job.
As to your 8:330AM post, I don’t think the two are intertwined as much as some would like to think. The Pilgrims set sail for new pastures because they couldn’t stomach the tyranny of their homeland. These were followed by like-minded people from Christian countries, and they, also, bought their beliefs with them, along with their desire to live a free life.
As for losing both, that has more to do with the insidious invasion by the Left, among a more cosmopolitan populace, which has fewer values in their lives because of said invasion and its teachings.
Christianity and Conservatism do live side by side, but the one is not wholly dependent on the other, although it may make it easier to pass along.
However, I was not, in this instance, knocking Christianity itself, I was knocking the idea that only one cult should be allowed. It has to be all or none.
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 9:16 AM
Isn’t Italy Christian? How about Spain since “No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!”. Well, I guess Spain was conservative.
I’m just sayin’.
IlikedAUH2O on February 8, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Oh but gee my 401K balance has really gone down so we need to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING. And and it looks like I will not get a bonus this year so gee gee we need to do something, anything. And I heard there is a family of 10 who may not be able to afford a converter box for their tv and and we need to help them. And there is an are-teest in town that got the aids from some stranger passsing through and and we need to finance his nouveau cesspool art project and also dump endless amounts of money into his healthcare because, gee you know it is somehow my fault he is suffering so. Why are we worrying about “essential liberty” when there is so many other important things to deal with ?
JonRoss on February 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM
This is not moonbat hysteria. Read this and click on all the links.
Sen. Debbie Stabenow is all for it, and oh so coincidentally her husband, Tom Athans, is an Executive V.P. at Air America.
Buy Danish on February 8, 2009 at 9:25 AM
France was a Christian country in the years America’s founders were developing their ideas about government. France influenced their views on the separation of church and state.
dedalus on February 8, 2009 at 9:28 AM
OK, you got me–I should have specified Protestant Christianity.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Can you believe these crazy (literally) people, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Dodd, Frank, Soros et al have taken over our country? The Liberal MSM has gotten a slick liar elected to the Presidency, and within three weeks, he has lurched our country far to the left. AND BUSH, Oh Jesus, he fell for the “EMERGENCY” TARP Bullshit and opened the door to this Marxist trojan horse. Damn.
marklmail on February 8, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Yes, comrade w started socialism and that is just one part of his failed legacy.
getalife on February 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM
I think the separation of church & state goes back to ancient Israel, which had kings & prophets, but no king/prophet. Additionally, the founders saw how corrupted European church leaders became when they were civil rulers, & they were determined not to let that happen here.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM
I guess protestants are okay because they only burned witches?
Nice moral system you got there.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Which one? Church of England, High Anglican, Low Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Calvin, Zwingli, Jansen, Latter Day Saints, Puritan, Amish, Quaker – just to name a few?
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM
I’m a fundie, and that puts me to the right (biblically) of probably anyone on this board. If anyone here would have opposed Romney’s presidency for theological reasons, it probably would have been me.
However, I did not oppose Romney b/c of his Mormonism; that issue was irrelevant.
I opposed him b/c his conversion to conservatism, given his track record, seemed just a little too “nick of time” for my comfort.
I did not trust the man to have kept any promise he gave to the base, just as I never trusted Huck or McCain…they all had too much stink of political slime and untrustworthiness about them.
Might Mitt have surprised us all and been a second Reagan? Maybe…McCain sure wouldn’t have been, as we all knew. Ditto Huck. I doubt Romney would have been much different, though. We’ll never know.
But, honestly, I know no genuine conservative – much less a sola scriptura believer – who opposed Romney because he’s Mormon.
splink on February 8, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Mommypundit-
To insure there was no offense to devout Christians and take the thread into another abyss of religious sensitivities and defense, I very carefully used phrase- the self righteous wing -.
And it was indeed that wing that squashed Mitt. ie Mike Huckabee and even James Dobson. Who both carry a lot of weight within their movement.
So as much as you find my comments a bit stinky of my own brand of prejudice, may I suggest you take a breath, read it again, and try to be more careful in distinguishing your personal emotions from the fact that there was an huge movement of self righteous Christians that torpedoed Mitt.
I love Christians as well as any other religious people who have and practice great values. But not all Christians practice their values and it is then I will call them as I see them. Or call anyone else out as I see them.
katy on February 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Every one of you had a chance to become teachers, where you could have stood up to the leftist thugs in the teacher’s lounge, or you could have run for school board, or taken a position in public administration.
Most of you here, I presume, opted for something else.
Just understand, WE handed the keys over to the Alinsky radicals. They’re only doing what they’ve always threatened to do.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Whenever I meet a real, devout, born-again Christian, there is an immediate kinship of spirit & an affection for each other, no matter what the sign on his church says.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM
The only protestant variety of any value is High Anglican because they are the only ones who can legitimately claim Apostolic succession.
The rest is pop-psych masquerading as religion.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 9:55 AM
See? Now, that’s what I’m talking about. Vote on the merits -only.
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 9:57 AM
I’d guess the prophets of ancient Israel were of the same religion and that there was in practice an official state religion.
The founders were more influence by events in Europe during the past few hundred years. Natural law was an idea from the ancient world that influenced them heavily but it was primarily developed by Greek philosophers.
dedalus on February 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM
That’s so sad. So you don’t want to be a part of what I wrote about 9:53?
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Aren’t we saying the same thing?
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 10:01 AM
There is no conservative leadership.
We are past the time of needing more than phone calls and emails.
We are witnessing the decline of the West, lead by America.
And no one is taking any serious action.
I guess we’ll just roll over and die, as a nation.
artist on February 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM
I suppose folks like you were saying that in 1930…& in 1976.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM
May I take it, then, that you have not spent any time in either rural England, or Australia? Because, in those places, everyone shuns the other guys, no matter what branch they belong to. What their upper clergy may say in public bears no relation to the attitudes at the local level.
OldEnglish on February 8, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Your cheap shot smear of Catholicism was duly noted and responded to.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM
’m about to move out of Texas in a month… I’m starting to think I may be making a huge mistake. The best place to be for the coming revolution is TX….
Oddly enough I will probably be moving to California….. Crazy huh?
Ampersand on February 8, 2009 at 3:49 AM
Don’t do it son! At least in Texas you are assured that many of your neighbors will take arms with you!
catlady on February 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Funny, I was so close to telling you to “take a breath” before lambasting the “self righteous wing” of evangelicalism, until I realized that would be a bit condescending.
Dobson was a disappointment. I understood his political “issue” with McCain, given conservatives’ issue with him on policy. His reluctance to back Romney was troubling…but the concerns from Christians regarding mormonism has been long standing and a conversation we needed to have given our history. Period. I never backed Huckabee…except for his support of Fair Tax. I thought his pandering to McCain was shameful and his plastic Christian veneer while sneakily dropping media bombs on Romney about mormonism was despicable and made him (and true evangelical concern for Christian doctrine) look petty and stupid. This was a tough time. And difficult as a student of Christian apologetics to articulate WHY we could/would/should support Romney while still fundamentally disagreeing with his religion and the distinction between that and true Christianity.
Mommypundit on February 8, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Except that – and I think this may be the saving face – I’m not sure the nation is so frightened. Everyone has heard the story of the little boy who cried wolf, and that is for all the world what Obama looks like now.
Plus – fool me once with TARP, shame on you; fool me twice . . .
Alana on February 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM
*saving grace
Alana on February 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM
I guess we’ll just roll over and die, as a nation.
artist on February 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM
I am not ready to do that – I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!! (you are probably too young to remember the movie this quote is from!)
catlady on February 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Tuning Spork on February 8, 2009 at 1:17 AM
Who is raining on America’s Parade? I don’t mean the politicians who’s faces are turned out toward us. We have folks at large “Who Burned Down the House” No they are not going to get prosecuted for what they did to the U.S and the Global Economy. Eliot Spitzer’s Madame claims they used Company money to pay for her services but they are NOT going to be prosecuted for theft in this case either. Who can bring the hard rain, and is above the LAW in America? I am not referring to Al Gore:)
Dr Evil on February 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM
What people need to understand is that Obama and political lifers (be they of either Party) do not care what happens to the economy.
They want European elitism, socialism, unionism/marxism with—wait for it—them at the top.
The h*ll with everyone else.
The “economic crisis” with the already european-style owned-by-the-government media propagandizing for them is giving it to them.
So trying to logically talk to Obama and the Dhimms about why the “stimulus” package is not a stimulus package is futile. They know it’s not a stimulus package. It’s a political-lefties-selected-for-life package.
They are driving toward a Canada-USA-Mejico in a North American Union with them at the top just like the pEU.
The problem is………..isslam, like in zErope, is not playing along. iSSlamic birth rates are taking zErope over.
While leftist retards have their 1.2 non-replacement birth rates (even less for Bwawney Fwank), the isslamists will take over within several generations.
See: Mark Steyn’s America Alone.
This is the tyranny that our Founders warned us about. If you don’t own plenty of firearms get ready to bleat like a sheep.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on February 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I think I will look on the bright side this morning, our Progressive leadership (Pelosi and her coven, and Reid in the Senate) is so poor and incompetent SEE “they could mess up a wet dream” That I think they will destroy this OBVIOUS Socialist movement underfoot from the same inept behavior. They are not First Stringers, we will survive the wannabe magentas.
Dr Evil on February 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM
to the barricades!!!
notagool on February 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM
It was no cheap shot.
I’m not aware of any majority-Catholic nations with conservative governments.
(I don’t mean trending conservatively, such as if they’re socialist but moving in the right direction)
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Come on, Jeff. Who knew? Did you know?
Alana on February 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM
ex-Democrat on February 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Hear hear!!! That is why this will not be fixed with one President but with several.
But just as importantly we MUST take back our schools. We cannot allow the indoctrination that occurs there to continue, and that is an area we can affect now on a community basis. School boards, PTAs, what have you. I have been preparing my college bound kid for the last two years about what he will encounter – how to “play the game” to get his grades but keep his personal beliefs intact. Ultimately it is up to him to decide if his current set of beliefs are the ones he will keep, but I want to at least give him a shot at navigating through the liberal BS he will encounter.
The one thing that we must recognize is that we still have the power of the vote – and that is where the most effort is needed. Good candidates need to be found and supported – that is crux of the matter. Not for one or two elections but for generations.
catlady on February 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM
well, you got the darn zinger in anyway… good for you.
Mitt’s faith and the breakdown of Mormon theology should never have come into play in the elections and that was my point.
I think pride and fear were a huge part of the collective coup that took him out and that was disgusting. He is a smart man, a family man, a good politician, savy, loves his country and its liberty based history. Because of fear and envy or whatever nasty sin-nature came out in the influence peddlers, he is not in the White House.
His religion should never have been an issue. It’s how he lives his life (values) that SHOULD have been the issue.
katy on February 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM
btw, that was the first “News”weak column I’ve attempted to read in years, and couldn’t get through it.
It’s pure lies, BDS, and leftist propaganda. To think I used to subscribe decades ago.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on February 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Beg to differ. France was at that time a “post-Christian” nation, based on Christian traditions and corrupted by humanism. After the French revolution, those who seized power did everything they possibly could to eradicate Christianity, such as attempting to force a new calendar based on a ten-day week.
Many of the comments remind me of when I joined the Navy in the mid-sixties. When first issued our “dog tags”, we were ordered to select what religion was imprinted with our name and service number. We had three choices; Catholic, Jewish, or Protestant. If you didn’t select one, you defaulted to Protestant. Please don’t assume that if someone’s not a Hindu or Muslim that they’re Christian. That’s not how it works.
oldleprechaun on February 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Mitt didn’t win because he was a new convert to conservative principles. Among my evangelical friends, I’ve never heard anything about his Mormonism turning away votes, & only one or two HAers used that against voting for him.
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Politics are almost always corrupt.
Johan Klaus on February 8, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Sad but true. While I love some things about GWB he did open Pandora’s box here. And the devil himself popped out.
conservnut on February 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM
There is certainly a lot of Christian bashing here today.
Johan Klaus on February 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM
I was referring to pre-Revolutionary France since the U.S. Declaration was written before it began and the ideas that shaped the Founders were based on how the French government had functioned over the previous generations.
dedalus on February 8, 2009 at 10:46 AM
There’s Ireland.
aengus on February 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM
New convert or not new convert….What I saw on the campaign trail was a conservative.
Sometimes new converts are have more conviction in them than those who covet the title but rarely practice the tenets.
katy on February 8, 2009 at 10:56 AM
When w spewed wall street got drunk and he was going to start trickle up socialism, I thought this will not end well.
Now, they are throwing hail marys and still have no idea where this is going.
Yet, our government is politics as usual and wall street is business as usual like nothing happened.
Out of touch and wondering when Americans will join the rest of the world in protests.
getalife on February 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM
First, anything said in a news article by Newsweek is suspect unless confirmed from outside sources.
The numbers they point to can be easily confirmed, but their conclusions are more subjective. This is at least partly because they actually prefer the idea of being more like Europe.
As we’ve all seen, an Obama administration in a bad economy really does attempt to move to greater socialism. But their claim that, “Bush did it too” is fallacious. They hope to discourage the right by saying that Bush is just as guilty. While Bush certainly made some similar moves — the “compassionate” part of “compassionate conservatism” — he was careful to structure it as temporary loans that would not fundamentally restructure the economy — the “conservatism” part of “compassionate conservatism.” Regardless of the wisdom of his actions, it was not a surrender to creeping European socialism. Don’t let the drive-by media make you think we’ve already surrendered.
The question before us now is whether we’re going to surrender under an Obama administration.
IOW, Resistance is NOT futile.
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on February 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM
They were Calvinists (which one can safely call a “conservative” religion) and thus by definition they were completely intertwined! They left Holland where they did enjoy religious freedom primarily because they were losing their British cultural identity and language.
One cannot dismiss the inextricable influence of religion in every aspect of their daily lives, which is at the heart of Calvinism. How widespread was the Calvinist influence in our founding and thus our ‘conservative’ culture? Here’s a clue:
Most settlers in the American Mid-Atlantic and New England were Calvinists, including the English Puritans, the French Huguenot and Dutch settlers of New Amsterdam (New York), and the Scotch-Irish Presbyterians of the Appalachian back country.
Buy Danish on February 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM
There seems to be this myth out there that Romney lost simply because the evangelicals were too worried about him being Mormon. I don’t buy it. Many didn’t trust Romney because he seemed to have a convenient conversion to conservatism just in time to run for President. They saw a talented individual, but weren’t sure they could trust him. Blame them if you want, but we’ve seen an awful lot of people who run as if they’re conservative, then immediately jump back to the squishy middle where they really were all along.
In fact, Carter appeared fairly conservative at first, and many people voted for him for that reason. Then look what happened.
Romney lost because there were too many people running at the same time, and he never solidified enough support. Romney was not my first choice, but he would have been far better than McCain. I’m still not convinced he would have beaten Obama, even though he obviously would have had a much better handle on the economy.
All of the above is pretty much irrelevant to whether Mormonism can be classified as Christianity.
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on February 8, 2009 at 12:04 PM
I see the confusion here.
Catholics (thank God) are not synonymous with Conservatives.
We oppose the death penalty you protestants mete out with abandon.
We oppose egregious displays of wealth you libertarians find so dignified.
We opposed Margaret Sanger’s brutal eugenics agenda which she conned you protestants into supporting. She even called you useful idiots behind your backs. But you protestants fell for the con job that you were getting good old conservative self-determination when you started slaughtering your babies in the womb.
So, the answer is, no, Catholics (thank God) are not “conservative” if by conservative you mean the wretched form found in America.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 12:04 PM
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on February 8, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Michael Steele says it nicely in his proposal to the GOP…
This is the first line of rule #3
katy on February 8, 2009 at 12:26 PM
OOps That was from technopeasant and not from Steele. Didn’t read the last line.
but it sure states my view point.
40 lashes with wet noodle for katy. any takers?
katy on February 8, 2009 at 12:33 PM
So we don’t get to JUDGE President Obama’s behavior, his choice of associates?
Judging is a cognitive act, not a religious one. You can come squealing to us when the US government forces anyone to believe a metaphysical doctrine.
But we sort of have an interest in whether folks can steal, lie, cheat, murder…
If it’s all the same to you, that is.
jeff_from_mpls on February 8, 2009 at 12:33 PM
William Ayers would fall into the catagory of judging because he was in fact involved in criminal activity. So yes that would mean Obama could and should be judged.
The point here that we should be looking at is a persons values system and how they live their lives and not reject them based on a their particular religion.
If they are fusing their particular religious doctrine (not values) into culture by means of legislative force, then yes I have a problem with that.
I did not see any proof that Romney was lying, stealing, cheating or murdering or anyone he associated with doing these things. Which is what this conversation started with BTW.
katy on February 8, 2009 at 12:53 PM
I did.
I do. Now only the few likeminded conservatives speak to me at all in the hall, or say “G’morning,” even after I say it first. Which I fully expected, and accept fully.
Make blanket statements much?
splink on February 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM
jgapinoy on February 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Thats the point I was making that those so obsessed with social issues torpedoed a man than had moved in your direction. I guarantee Mitt would not have panicked like McCain did when the financial sector started its meltdown but would have offered reasoned arguments on how to stabalize them. He would not be trying to ram a trillion dollar porkfest down our throats but instead would have a package of taxcuts and real economic stimulus on the table. I will never understand this obsession with social issues being used as a litmus test when issues like fiscal sanity and national defense are so much more important. So what if Mitt was rather late to move in a socially conservative direction politically he has lived his life by conservative ideals and isn’t that what’s important?
goat on February 8, 2009 at 1:02 PM
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on February 8, 2009 at 12:04 PM
The fallacy in your thinking is that Mitt converted to conservatism, he was always conservative unless you believe that social issues are the only measure of conservatism.
goat on February 8, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Is that really from Steele? Yikes. I can’t agree with that either. We certainly have the right to look at a person’s character, and it need not be “criminal” to be ‘judge-worthy’.
That being said, I agree with your comments about Mitt.
Sheesh. Calm down. Japingoy is correct that historically Catholic countries are not conservative when it comes to subscribing to laissez-faire, capitalist economics. Moreover, the Latin American Catholic church is pushing Liberation Theology which is essentially Marxism.
Here I agree with you.
Buy Danish on February 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM
I suppose we can also look forward to Muslim youths burning automobiles and rioting in the streets.
(Of course, we won’t be able to identify them as Muslim.)
Disturb the Universe on February 8, 2009 at 1:13 PM
NO!!! go back and read my recant. I’m really embarassed.
katy on February 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM
That sounds good on paper, but watch how it flies.
It’s easy for libs to be a cohesive force: whatever differences they may have, they still have no core integrity in the sense most inhabitants of Christendom would define the term. All the ethics and morality of the lib is ultimately man-derived and man-serving, thus forever changeable as situations warrant.
Yet, despite this, they have now proven with Obama that they all can still subscribe to a common (if invariably selfish and power-hungry) goal when they have to. This explains why that sad lot of backstabbing, greedy, lying hypocrites – emotional children who are individually devoid of common decency (find me one that opposes murdering babies in the womb) – can unite as one world-changing force and call themselves moral when they do it. They just did exactly that, after all.
OTOH, those of us on the other side try, to varying degrees, to live out what we believe to be true. Just as libs do. Difference is, each of us is captive to our conscience, which each of us believes to have been informed by God. So when we disagree – as most of us here will continue to do – there’s no common ground on which to set aside our differences, as libs can. There’s no gray for us, whereas their entire universe is gray.
That’s why conservatism isn’t working, and ultimately won’t work. Not because it will have failed due to some internal flaw – no, it works when it’s left alone. It will fail because its adherents are captive to his or her own conscience before God, and cannot “agree to disagree” even if it’d be politically expedient to do so. So politically, that’ll kill us.
But at least we have our integrity, for whatever it’s worth.
splink on February 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM
I don’t think that the American people really wanted The One so much as much as the media preaches. (bandwagon effect, you know) and I also believe that there were issues sitting like guns and knives in the drawer that could have seriously damaged his campaign. But they had to be used with energy and skill. With better organization added to these weapons, The One and The Other One would have gotten a verdict of “We don’t want either One.”
Theregoestheneighborhood and others here have a cool and smart assessment of the ‘Christian Right’ wounding Mitt in the primaries. However, a raging black liberal I know (who gets political opinions from a radical black church which dispenses Democratic talking points like hotdogs at a company picnic) intensely disliked every Republican frontrunner until McCain started emerging. Special attacks were leveled at Mitt Romney. Remarks about women in Mormonism being slaves, his shifting positions, the possibility of “buying” the election, his slick look and spoiled life were prominent in their comments. Aside from examining all of those shots (except the first) in light of the Messiah we elected, I got the distinct idea that they sensed a weak warrior in McCain and really wanted rid of Romney. So to those who opposed him, look what we got in the campaign and now who is sitting in the White House.
IlikedAUH2O on February 8, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Phew! I was trying to find it in the intenets but couldn’t.
Buy Danish on February 8, 2009 at 1:18 PM
GAWD!!!!! before this gets totally out of control!!!
THIS #3 thing is from technopeasnat and I didn’t read the last mine of his post. It’s his not Steele’s.
Someone please beat me and get it over with!!!!
katy on February 8, 2009 at 1:18 PM
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