Open Thread: Porkulus bill going to votes today; Update: Voinovich out; Update: Collins wavering; Update: Can’t get to cloture?
posted at 1:40 pm on February 6, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The stimulus bill has begun its way through a series of votes on amendments, the first step towards what will almost certainly be a final vote on the Generational Theft Act later this afternoon or evening. Supposedly a Gang of 15 have retired to an anteroom to try building an amendment that will slice $100 billion off the top, which would mean that the remainder would still have as much pork as the House version — since the Senate added about $100 billion to HR1.
We’ll toss this out as an open thread for AP and I to update with thoughts on the amendment votes, the almost-certainly-doomed cloture vote, and the inevitable approval of the worst and largest spending bill in history.
Among my favorite amendments attached: a $2B codicil to encourage low-income housing. Isn’t that how we got into this mess in the first place?
Update (AP): Byron York says three Republicans are on board, maybe more.
Update (Ed): Mild surprise to see the Coburn Amendment pass 73-24 to block spending on casinos, aquariums, and other frivolities. Didn’t the Democrats have a starving dolphin or two for backup?
Update II (Ed): The other Coburn bill, requiring competitive bids for all of the projects in the bill, passed 97-0. Who was going to go on record opposing that idea? Now John Kerry’s up on his feet, saying that he’s supported “many tax cuts” during his long and droning tenure in the Senate. I’d like to see a list.
Update III (Ed): Voinovich says he’s out:
Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio) has pulled out of negotiations on a bipartisan compromise on the Senate’s economic stimulus bill.
Three Republicans — Sens. Susan Collins (Maine), Olympia Snowe (Maine) and Arlen Specter (Pa.) — continue to negotiate with Democrats, but Voinovich’s departure could make it more difficult for Democrats to reach the 60 votes they need to pass the bill.
Voinovich left a meeting in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) office around 2:30 p.m., saying he did not believe there was a deal he could agree to on an amendment that would cut as much as $100 billion from the more than $920 billion measure.
“I’ve really tried to work on this, but the three things that it should be timely, that it should be temporary and it should be targeted, that was something that I looked at,” Voinovich said. “It just doesn’t meet my criteria, and I feel very sorry because I think the Majority Leader has his responsibility, and he’s got his Members that he has to take care of.”
Update (AP): Suddenly Collins sounds iffy, too:
In the morning, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid , D-Nev., said he expected negotiations on a compromise to produce something that could be voted on by the end of the day.
“This is a critical day for our country and this Congress,” he said.
But by mid-afternoon, one of the leaders of the bipartisan group, Republican Susan Collins of Maine, emerged from a meeting with Reid and said she was just beginning to review an offer from the Democratic leader.
Asked how she felt, Collins said, “not as good as I felt earlier.”
Update (AP): Mark Hemingway also hears that Collins is wavering, leaving just Snowe and Specter.
Update (Ed): Duane Patterson of the Hugh Hewitt Show tells me that the Democrats have to get 60 votes by rule for cloture, not just 3/5ths of the quorum. Ted Kennedy is too ill to attend, which means Reid needs three Republican votes — and it looks like he might not get them.










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LegendHasIt on February 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I may cancel. My policy is not to business with liberals.
Cody1991 on February 6, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Because as Trent brilliantly noted earlier, having someone who votes with you 50% of the time is better than having someone who votes with you 0-15% of the time. And if/when a GOP Presidential candidate wins you don’t want the Dems to have filibuster power do you? I mean I might want that…but you do want to win..right?
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:09 PM
ANY RINO that voted for this Socilist Party Expansion Bill of crap needs to be caucasing NOW with the far left. They need to be removed for, any participation in our party, period!
Mark Garnett on February 6, 2009 at 3:09 PM
By the way, the SEIU just sent out an email saying that conservative Republicans are opposing Hilda Solis simply because she “supports the working people”. Opposing her is apparently “an insult to every working person in America.”
amerpundit on February 6, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Wow, according to Ace one of my Dem Senators, Feinstein, is against the bill in its present form and knows it won’t create jobs. She has seen what excessive spending has done to Ca. so maybe we have some hope.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 3:10 PM
It’s real simple.
To grow jobs, you need companies in the private sector to spend.
Eliminate the Capitol Gains Tax and see how the job creation happens.
Kini on February 6, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Voinovich won’t support the bill; Roll Call says he just pulled out of negotiations. Three Republicans (Snowe, Collins, Specter) remain in negotiations, but Collins was asked how she feels about the bill’s chances. “(N)ot as good as I felt earlier”.
amerpundit on February 6, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Limerick, please tell this bimbo that Canada also has “free” healthcare. Last year, my aunt who lives in Toronto wasn’t feeling well and called to get an appt. with her doctor. She waited one month to get in with him and in the interim went to the emergency room but the wait was so long she went home. Her appt. with her doctor lasted 15 minutes with the barest minimum of treatment. She went home and died three days later due to blood toxin poisoning. The horrible part of this story is she had just recently retired from being a hospital administrator for 30 years and yet still couldn’t work around the system to get the proper medical help. Please tell your co-worker that “free” isn’t all its cracked up to be.
sherry on February 6, 2009 at 3:14 PM
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:09 PM
The vote for this bill, if it passes, changes this country forever. The debt it entails, the ridiculous leftist programs it will start, which of course will never die, means that this country will be so far off the rails there may be no recovering.
We already are insolvent with Social Security and Medicare entitlements – what’s another $ 1 trillion on top of the $800 billion they just flushed down the toilet?
Watershed moments are only recognized in retrospect, and I fear that this is one.
This is how I feel.
Sheerq on February 6, 2009 at 3:14 PM
That stuff will be ironed out in conference, Feinstein will vote. This is more troubling.
Three is still enough, I wonder what they wanted. It just has to get past filibuster.
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:15 PM
I have no words for GOPers who suddenly care about fiscal responsibility, why did you support a tax cut during a war that cost 500 billion bucks. You have ZERO moral highground here.
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:16 PM
“Looks like Harry Reid is telling negotiators on the stimulus bill that if they’re going to cut the size of the spending provisions, then they should reduce some of the tax cuts in the bill, too.”
Compromise.
getalife on February 6, 2009 at 3:17 PM
If the votes aren’t there today, I predict Barry goes all Christian Bale on America by Monday.
Christien on February 6, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Roll Call says Voinovich pulled out of meetings.
Topsecretk9 on February 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM
What in the world do we have to do?
I live in Pa. and have tried to contact both of my Senators.
Phone lines busy.
Mail boxes full.
Email addresses are wrong.
Busy signal at Erie office.
I can’t get in contact with Washington.
Oh, well at least Baskin Robbins is open.
They have a new politically correct flavor ice cream.
“Barocky Road”…it’s
half vanila…half chocolate
and sorrounded with fruits & nuts.
samhill on February 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM
We would have been extremely happy to cut:
Department of Labor
Department of Energy
Department of Education
Department of Commerce
Department of HHS
etc.
WashJeff on February 6, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Assuming they all agree to vote for it. Voinovich was in negotiations, too. Until he wasn’t. Feinstein is hinting she may vote against it, and that assumes that no Blue Dogs will oppose it on size.
That’s not to say it won’t pass. It probably will. But it’s less likely than earlier, as Collins noted.
amerpundit on February 6, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I tried. I’m the official office racist because of it. I have received an official talking to for being insensitive.
Limerick on February 6, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Tax cuts are not spending since the money does not belong to the government, it belongs to the people that earned it. Government revenue goes up with productivity and job creation in the private sector. Higher taxes reduce productivity and job creation by taking money out of the private sector.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Well put. Democrats came to power by effectively leveraging their party discipline. IF Republicans can’t hold tough on this bloated pig budget bill that Democrats have the AUDACITY to call stimulus when more than half of the spending doesn’t take place until two years out, THEN the Republican Party is DEAD.
Angry Dumbo on February 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:16 PM
I always cared. I was dead set against the TARP bailout and know that there billions are wasted annually.
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme far exceeding the work of Madoff.
It is possible, btw, to support a tax cut that increases revenue, which the Bush cuts did (as did the Reagan cuts.)
It is the SPENDING that has always been the issue. But you don’t rally care about any of that, do you?
Sheerq on February 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM
For real or are you kidding?
jewells45 on February 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Me neither, too ;-)
For instance, I don’t go to one of the most popular restaurants in town because it is owned by a liberal activist local Democrat party high muckety muck
LegendHasIt on February 6, 2009 at 3:26 PM
That’s exactly right Jiangx. That is why he is in panic mode that this may not pass…it will crumple him not our country…and deep down he knows this. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
javamartini on February 6, 2009 at 3:27 PM
NOT kidding. I need to ‘let them have their moment in the sun’. It was all based on a comment I made about the lack of unicorns and butterflies in my backyard since Barry was elected. A complaint was filed. I must not dampen the ‘upbeat office atmosphere’.
Limerick on February 6, 2009 at 3:29 PM
According to RedState, Voinovich has dropped out of the Gang of Four. Collins is sounding doubtful over whether anything can be passed today…
Wethal on February 6, 2009 at 3:30 PM
I’ve emailed Collins, Specter, Voinivich and Snowe and I’ve tried to call all 4 – I only got through to Collins’ office.
Stevel on February 6, 2009 at 3:30 PM
To grow jobs, you need companies in the private sector to spend.
Eliminate the Capitol Gains Tax and see how the job creation happens.
Kini on February 6, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Bingo Kini, all they all know this, but few actually want to stimulate the economy. Eliminate the Capitol Gains Tax and Eliminate the Death Tax (prior to this bill, the DT was the biggest rip-off of tax civilian money), and we will see the end of this recession post haste!
Keemo on February 6, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Read Walter E. Williams latest article. He makes this point with his great reasoned prose.
The National Ponzi Scheme
WashJeff on February 6, 2009 at 3:31 PM
If he did, I’m sure they were to help out Teresa Heinz.
Buy Danish on February 6, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Yet you keep posting your words…please honor your pledge…if you keep posting on a website where we supported that tax cut, you will have “ZERO moral highground here”.
right2bright on February 6, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Did you know that John Kerry fought in the VietNam war?
right2bright on February 6, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Holy S**T!! Unbelievable! Guess I have been lucky not to have that problem here at work.
My family on the other hand……..
jewells45 on February 6, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Stay strong. You will have the last laugh.
sherry on February 6, 2009 at 3:33 PM
That is an awful story. I cringe at hearing it. So sorry.
I told my wife last night that if we get the nationalized care here, that she should use gold coins as bribes to get the treatment the kids and she need. I know it won’t be legal, but I wish someone had tried to bribe the doctors in Canada to help her.
JiangxiDad on February 6, 2009 at 3:34 PM
DeathToMediaHacks on February 6, 2009 at 3:16 PM
right2bright on February 6, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Can’t for the life of me figure out why anybody here give’s this moron a second of their time…
Keemo on February 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Here’s a very enlightening video of what we are facing in the next two years after this bill passes. It’s not pretty.
http://tinyurl.com/c4qttg
smartsy on February 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM
I must not dampen the ‘upbeat office atmosphere’.
Limerick on February 6, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Hang in there. The “Obamagoggles” are starting to slip farther and farther down the nose and reality is getting ready to rear it’s ugly head. In the end, you WILL be right. :)
milwife88 on February 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM
That makes me happy. I want him rattled and paranoid as soon as possible. I don’t want to have to wait until we are attacked.
JiangxiDad on February 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM
samhill on February 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM
I got through to Specter without even having to redial (about 15 minutes ago).
I also faxed him in DC (number is on his website) and sent an email through his contact form.
Keep trying!
IrishEi on February 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Well, I’m off to work(while I still have a job) in my upbeat office. Fair warning….I’ll be back at the witching hour to make more voodoo.
Limerick on February 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Keemo, I guess it’s the Christian in me, praying that anyone can change if they would just look at the light. And I have seen people change. Also, if we just ignored them, they might start thinking they are right because there is not disagreement.
kirkill on February 6, 2009 at 3:41 PM
I wonder if Reid will have to drag Teddy out of his sick bed to get to sixty. It looks like compromise negotiations are breaking down.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Stocks are up, though. How do you figure that?
Alana on February 6, 2009 at 3:41 PM
I won’t join AARP. I don’t need their discounts, I sure as hell don’t need them.
sloopy on February 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Hannity said Reid is saying the cloture vote will be Sunday. Contact Mitch McConnel TODAY and DEMAND A FILIBUSTER!!!!
Mutnodjmet on February 6, 2009 at 3:43 PM
I’m in AARP and got a disgusting magazine from them this month, with “yes we can” on the cover of it, along with some chirpy article about Obama I didn’t bother to read.
Considering dropping AARP.
Alana on February 6, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Thank you for your kind words. I get on a soapbox over the healthcare issue because I have seen what it has come to over the years. Thirty years ago my grandfather in Canada was the recipient of the perfect package for nationalized health care. He was dying and as a citizen received in-home hospice care for two years all paid for by the govt. 24 hours a day/7 days a week. This was not cheap but offered by the government so they took it. Fast forward thirty years later, they system is bankrupt from its good deeds, fees to doctors and nurses dwindled because the govt. controlled expenses and a generation of medical students fled Canada for better paying jobs. My aunt paid the price for a failed system. And they find themselves in a hole so deep they can’t get out of. God forbid this happens to our country. The effects will be long-lived.
sherry on February 6, 2009 at 3:45 PM
No, it’s this ‘inclusiveness’ and PC crap that are taking over corporate America. It has nothing to do necessarily with Obama. Two years ago, one of my objectives (forced on me, not chosen by me) was to find someone who looked different than me (read minorities since I’m white) and make an effort to determine our differences.
I told my boss that was bigoted and/or racist and I would not participate. I also informed him (since I lived in northeast PA at the time) that there were approximately 3 people who weren’t of white European descent at my place of work and that if they were pushing this garbage to the whole company, those people would have no rest between all the forced codgering by all the other white people – in a facility with around 300 employees.
I got a verbal repremand, was told to do it anyway, and told them no. I got lowered on my people skills for my review that year (hurts my pay raise) and never did do it. I talk to whoever I come in contact with regardless who they are. I’m not following some stupid company mandate to find the minorities and single them out. They still pull the same stuff (I’ve since transferred to AZ, so minorities are no longer the minority =) but they don’t bother me with it anymore because they don’t like solid arguments.
Just stick to your guns. They’re spineless.
Kelligan on February 6, 2009 at 3:48 PM
I see a lot of hate against the bill: but time and again, we have seen the tax cuts help the economy only across the long term. It is impossible, by definition, to have a short term impact from tax cuts. And the way Wall Street is cheering today, it seems they have already factored in the stimulus bill, which, traders are hoping, will help the economy. For crying out loud, a third of the package *is* in tax cuts.
peter_griffin on February 6, 2009 at 3:52 PM
I hope these scumbags understand the nasty stuff they’re going to have on their hands in a couple years. First they wrecked the economy under the radar by forcing banks to loan money to ne’er do wells. Now they pile on by taking MORE of our money to “save” those same losers. All the while, the money really goes into their pockets and the pockets of their cronies. Five years from now there will be a sudden “uproar” and “hearings” on just what went wrong, leading to the final nail in the free market coffin. Wake up folks, the commies are here!!!
HomeoftheBrave on February 6, 2009 at 3:52 PM
DEMAND FILIBUSTER
Sean Hannity said that Harry Reid indicated he will end debate and get a cloture vote on SUNDAY, not today!!!! Senator Voinovich (R-Ohio) is out, leaving COLLINS, SPECTER and SNOWE as the GOP Triumverate of Denseness.
Contact them today via the Senate House link, here.
Fax them:
Collins – 202-224-2693
Snowe – 202-224-1946
Then contact GOP MINORITY LEADER MITCH MCCONNELL TODAY and DEMAND A FILIBUSTER!
Mutnodjmet on February 6, 2009 at 3:53 PM
It took President Obama just a week to figure out that Kentucky is one of the “57″ states.
Ampleforth on February 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM
peter_griffin on February 6, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Markets are up on news that mark to market rules are being dropped, nothing to do with the porkfest being debated.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Gee, if even Voinovich can’t support porkulous, then it’s got to be real bad.
rbj on February 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Interesting times in the mortgage biz. MBS’s are off and interest rates are UP this week though we’ve had lots of bad news which is usually good for mortgage rates. Jobs wer worse than expected, revised Q4 GDP was worse, etc
The stimulus package is being seen by the bond market as such a huge drag on the economy, and will take so much cash to fund that there won’t be enough dollars chasing MBS’s to provide liquidity. Too much supply (people wanting to borrower money) but not enough demand (dollars to satisfy that market).
It’s the screwiest thing we’ve ever seen. Up is down and good is bad, but one things for sure. The smart guys think the stimulus is not stimulative in any way whatsoever.
DrW on February 6, 2009 at 4:00 PM
If Harry Reid had the votes to pass this…he wouldve called for a vote. I dont think he has the votes.
Shep said the Senate added some stuff. Now $900,000 billion.
Anyway…the Capital switchboards are busy, busy, busy.
becki51758 on February 6, 2009 at 4:02 PM
It shouldn’t take long based on his performance this week.
Cody1991 on February 6, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Now if the bill can be stalled until Sunday, one could pray for snow in Munich….Lots of snow…Airport-closing snow.
Wethal on February 6, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Above was from NRO Corner.
Wethal on February 6, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Susan Collins should be taken out and drawn and hung as a traitor to the United States of America!
sabbott on February 6, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Latest from Redstate. And if Teddy is too sick to come to the Senate. Anyone heard if he’s around? He’s been missing votes. But they were confirmation votes that were sure to go through.
Wethal on February 6, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Based on the chart formations we were due for a breakout one way of the other. The ‘story’ is that the move up is in anticipation of a stimulus package being passed. If it is in its current form, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the markets drop back once they understand that it isn’t a stimulus plan.
Cody1991 on February 6, 2009 at 4:05 PM
And little Miss Gramnesty and John McNumNuts are trying their best to pass this piece of dung…but they are ham strung by conservatives…”we shall overcome these obstructionist pigs…senator McNumbnuts was heard to have proclaimed before his leaders grabbed him and stuffed his head up his a$$!
sabbott on February 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM
What a friggin’ novel concept! Too bad the Hopenchange wing of the party can’t recognize CHANGE when it is presented to their faces.
Mallard T. Drake on February 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Vitter: It’s unlikely there will be a vote tonight.
amerpundit on February 6, 2009 at 4:08 PM
What is it with you liberals and basic math skills?
The GOP’s worst deficit with the war and the tax cuts was $412 billion.
Obama’s first deficit is looking to be $2 trillion- a record in size and % of GDP- nothings ever come close.
Bush added $4 trillion to the debt in 8 years.
Obama will add $1 trillion with this bill alone.
And Obama’s cutting taxes during the war as well.
You have absolutely zero intellectual honesty.
Chuck Schick on February 6, 2009 at 4:09 PM
I am so ashamed to call Specter my Republican Senator.
ggoofer on February 6, 2009 at 4:09 PM
How about a structural failure in the wing box, about 200 miles west of the Azores?
BobMbx on February 6, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Same here.
Is it too late to call 202-224-4254? Did he already make some kind of promise to Obama that he has to keep?
misslizzi on February 6, 2009 at 4:13 PM
sabbott on February 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM
McCain has always been against wasteful spending, its one of his few redeeming features. He has never voiced any support for this porkfest.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 4:14 PM
I support tax cuts every day of the year. Proven fact: Reduce the tax rate, tax revenue increases. Every time.
You have no ground to stand on, moral or not.
BobMbx on February 6, 2009 at 4:14 PM
I think they’re flying on a military jet. It’s suffering enough for the Air Force to have to fly them. Going down in the drink with them would be tragic.
Wethal on February 6, 2009 at 4:15 PM
You are a tool. Obamadunce wants to spend a trillion dollars.. The CBO and anyone with half a brain knows that will not ‘stimulate’ the economy. Look at govt intervention in the Great depression.
As far as moral background.. That is FUNNY, I mean Really funny, coming from a guy who supports a guy who voted to let babies die of exposure and dehydration in hospital storerooms. Don’t even try the Moral BS..
bullseye on February 6, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Interesting website. Stimulus Watch. Updated every 10 minutes and very detailed. Credit to Americans for Prosperity (which has a petition against the bill, over 66,000 supporters at this time), who linked to it in an email.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org/
califcon on February 6, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Susan Collins is now saying its not gonna happen…
“Susan Collins, R-Maine — a central figure in talks over cutting back the measure’s spending items — said she was less optimistic of the chances of reaching an agreement with Reid than she was earlier in the day.” AP quote
YAY
dogsoldier on February 6, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Dow Jones: There may not be a vote tonight.
amerpundit on February 6, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Seems like to me that these dems want to own this armeggedon. So why don’t we just let them?
It will pass with or without republican votes. Let the dems sink in their own pile of sh*t as far as I’m concerned.
pullingmyhairout on February 6, 2009 at 4:17 PM
there wont be a vote till sunday at the earliest
ousoonerfan15 on February 6, 2009 at 4:18 PM
To quote Vashta: “Well, Duh”. Have any of your supporters called and said “You go, Girl!”?
Hadn’t considered the scenario that far. Lots O’that going on lately…..
BobMbx on February 6, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Geraghty is reporting that red state Dem Conrad has serious reservations about the bill not being targeted and temporary
goat on February 6, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Why is this such a hard concept for the left to get into their feeble little heads???
Government does NOT create wealth. That is created by private industry. People ought to shut off that fat blowhard Oprah and read stuff like the story about Victor Belenko. When he defected he was convinced for months that everything was a scam. Back in the USSR, apartment buildings were held together with steel bands, You had to wait in line or even for months for basic necessities. He couldn’t believe that the average person, not a party hack, could go into a supermarket and buy anything they wanted.
Yes, decreasing taxes takes money out of the hands of the Kleptocracy and puts it into the hands of those who create jobs, products and real wealth. ergo, THAT stimulates the economy.
bullseye on February 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM
pullingmyhairout on February 6, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Reid only has 57 voters, 58 if he can pull Kennedy out of his sick bed, and he needs 60 to get cloture and end debate.
goat on February 6, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Latest from Nan: “These cuts are very damaging — [the House bill] was put together very carefully. … The funding goes directly to school districts, they are stimulative because they maintain jobs instead of cutting jobs.”
When was the last time school districts cut staff?
cadams on February 6, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Really? You don’t think, say, a 75% cut in capital gains tax rates would spur immediate economic growth? And by “immediate” I mean “within the next four hours.”
The markets always react to their perception of future conditions. If Apple announced they were having record sales today, but were planning to shut down the business on Monday, you wouldn’t see a rush to buy Apple stock. In my home state of Florida, some genuises decided to impose a huge “luxury tax” on expensive cars and boats in the 90s. Before a penny of that tax had been collected, the luxury boat industry was in shambles. Within a few weeks of the tax being repealed, luxury boat building and maintenance was big business again.
The markets get jittery when government becomes deeply involved in any sector of the economy, because government doesn’t react according to the principles that could be used to predict the behavior of a private-sector entity. Markets thrive on their predictive power. A company losing money on a particular product line can be expected to cut the resources allocated to that product line, make dramatic attempts to improve its profitability, or maybe drop the product altogether. Government can jump in any direction, regardless of rational economic calculation, and sometimes in direct contradiction to rational economic behavior. Failing programs are likely to get more money invested in them. A productive industry can be targeted for destruction by the government because it is politically unpopular, or because an individual politician wants to demonize it to gain influence – see Hillary Clinton and the pharmaceutical industry in the 90s.
When the government gets involved in an industry, profitability, efficiency, and product quality become the least important considerations. In fact, they can be seen as liabilities. Government is a blind, drunk, highly emotional titan blundering through the china shop of the private sector, scaring the bejesus out of investors because they have no way of knowing which way it will jump… and thanks to the porkulus bill, it’s about to become even more deeply involved in virtually every industry. This will make it even bigger, and less rational.
Doctor Zero on February 6, 2009 at 4:25 PM
I must point out that I only know notice the hilarious picture accompanying the thread, showing Obama, Pelosi & Reid with a podium banner touting “Open Leadership…Honest Government”. Oh Brother!
Sheerq on February 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM
As long as no republican agrees to support the bill, there will not be a vote. This has nothing to do with a supermajority. Reid, Pelosi, and Obortion do not want to wear this thorny crown alone when the shit hits the fan. They want to claim it as a bi-partisan failure. They have the votes to pass it now.
HARRY! CALL THE DAMN VOTE!
I dare you.
BobMbx on February 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I called Collins office. I said that Congress needs to slow down and do this right. It took years to get into this recession (which, by the way, is part of a natural ebb and flow of the economy) and how do they think they can write a cure for it in less than two weeks?
stenwin77 on February 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Doctor Zero on February 6, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Agree 100%…this vote is a watershed moment for the nation.
Sheerq on February 6, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Tax cuts for who? People who don’t pay taxes?
pullingmyhairout on February 6, 2009 at 4:30 PM
What worries me is that if he truly has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, he will *never* admit mistakes. I’m not talking about that “I screwed up” BS, that’s just lip service. I mean really be introspective and realize that he is a flawed person (as we all are, which a healthy person realizes). To a Narcissist, that totally destroys their sense of self, they can’t go there. I predict that when he does melt down, it will be in the form of lashing out and blaming everyone around him, and chaos will ensue as the bus revs up and everyone scurries for cover. It won’t be pretty.
His arrogance is already verging on out of control; consider his speech yesterday…”What do they think a stimulus is???” Dripping with contempt. And after less than a month he has to leave town to be adored by the masses?
I always feel kind of silly and paranoid when I write stuff like this, but this guy really makes me nervous.
Boudica on February 6, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Did Donzi survive that social failure? I had forgotten about this. Pure social, populist legislation done with same tone and pointy finger that the $500,000 salary cap was imposed with.
Unintended consequences. Wow.
BobMbx on February 6, 2009 at 4:30 PM
So am I.
becki51758 on February 6, 2009 at 4:31 PM
I think the Wall St. Boys smell more Play Money coming their way.
Patrick S on February 6, 2009 at 4:34 PM
how pathetic is our government?
are there any patriots left?
despicable demonization of business
gatorboy on February 6, 2009 at 4:35 PM
LOL
Porkulus increasing by 58 billion dollars since it came to the floor = holding down costs.
Only a Democrat would say something like that.
Ryan Gandy on February 6, 2009 at 4:36 PM
The problem is a lack of acceptable alternatives
But, consider this: the basis for the stimulus plan is
Keynsian economics. This has great appeal to politicians because of the “levers of power” pitch, has been tried in almost every country, and has a 100% record of failure.
From England in the 1920s to Japan in the 1990s every single experiment has shown the same results: extraordinary government expenditures in the short term generate either taxes or inflation in the middle term and net economic setbacks in the long term. A 100% record of policy failure. No exceptions – none.
Paul Murphy on February 6, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Obama’s just full of lies:
Chuck Schick on February 6, 2009 at 4:37 PM
There are three reasons why Wall Street is cheering:
1. VOLKER
2. VOLKER
3. VOLKER
Take an economics class. Take a history class, take a hike. As a libtard, you should be used to taking.
Laura in Maryland on February 6, 2009 at 4:37 PM
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