Graham goes nuclear on Obama over stimulus: “Scaring people is not leadership”; Update: Stimulus worse than doing nothing, says CBO; Update: Or does it?
posted at 2:35 pm on February 5, 2009 by Allahpundit
In my three years of blogging at HA, this may be the first time I’ve seen the boss and Grahamnesty on exactly the same wavelength. Credit where credit is due: I thought he and McCain would be a collective rubber stamp for The One on all things “bipartisan” but they’ve both come out hard against this boondoggle. And then some: This is as close to bareknuckle as you’ll ever see from this guy, especially the shots at Obama’s leadership. I figured the GOP would keep triangulating between Obama and Pelosi, blaming the Democrats while staying well clear of attacking our new Messiah, but it looks like the bill is now sufficiently toxic that they think they can use it to score some points on him, too. Sweet.
Reid says they’ve got the votes. And, per MM, it sounds like he’s right:
Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine said Obama, in a meeting with her on Wednesday, had persuaded her that the ultimate bill should be “in the neighborhood of $800 billion.”
“The president did convince me,” she said, adding that she believed the two sides would reach a compromise on the Senate stimulus package on Thursday.
Update: Via Instapundit, turns out The One is right to be afraid. Just not for the reason he thinks.
CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing…
CBOs basic assumption is that, in the long run, each dollar of additional debt crowds out about a third of a dollars worth of private domestic capital, CBO said in its letter.
CBO said there is no crowding out in the short term, so the plan would succeed in boosting growth in 2009 and 2010.
Update: One of our three lefty readers e-mails to say that the Wash Times misread the CBO letter to Gregg and that there actually will be net growth. The key passage from the story is this:
CBO estimates that by 2019 the Senate legislation would reduce GDP by 0.1 percent to 0.3 percent on net…
The agency projected the Senate bill would produce between 1.4 percent and 4.1 percent higher growth in 2009 than if there was no action. For 2010, the plan would boost growth by 1.2 percent to 3.6 percent.
The confusion lies in the term “on net.” Does that refer to the entire period from 2009 to 2019 or the period not including 2009 and 2010, since specific growth numbers for those two years are provided? If the former, then the Times is right and CBO is claiming that the loss in GDP from 2011 to 2019 will wipe out any growth over the next two years for a net loss. If the latter, then the Times is way off. Simple math, per the guy who e-mailed me:
2009: 1.4 to 4.1
2010: 1.2 to 3.6
2011-2019: -0.1 to -0.3Worst Case 2009-2019: 1.4 + 1.2 – 0.3 = 2.3% positive total effect
Best Case 2009-2019: 4.1 + 3.6 – 0.1 = 7.7% positive total effect
I’m trying to find a copy of the CBO letter to resolve the discrepancy but the site is down right now. Can anyone help?










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your republican president expanded the government more than anyone since FDR (with medicare rx and the formation of HSD), blew billions to blow up then rebuild a country that didn’t attack us, drove up outrageous deficits so much so that the chinese practically own us, and you have the nerve to scold anyone about fiscal responsibility?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Which is kinda odd since she is gay.
kingsjester on February 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM
I love watching the left get their flannel shirts in a knot. A blur of Birkenstocks, sideburns and gnashing teeth.
Popping more popcorn. :)
Conservative_SAHM on February 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Is there a web site that has every item in this bill? Also, is the huge amount for ACORN still in it?
rlwo2008 on February 5, 2009 at 4:59 PM
McCain amendment failed. 57-40
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:59 PM
FIXED!
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:00 PM
The government regulates the lenders. But gotta admit that people in both political parties wanted to loosen up the regulations. Right???
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 5:00 PM
because the GOP was solely in power from 2001-2007 when the boom was happening.
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:02 PM
hmmm… didn’t President Bush and John McCain warn about Freddie/Fannie?
joey24007 on February 5, 2009 at 5:03 PM
If both McCain and Lindsey are against it it must be to bad to discuss. Surely they can’t get all the Dems to vote for this one. If they do it is their problem and it probably means only two years of Dem control. I hope we still have a country left by then.
duff65 on February 5, 2009 at 5:04 PM
even if we say they did, it’s too bad they weren’t in office at the time to actually…
oh, wait…
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:06 PM
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Of course, lobbyists are powerful in Washington.
But who will block regulations proposed to keep this from hapenning again?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 5:07 PM
From the person who advocates a $2 trillion deficit?
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Sure. The new guy in town who wants to run $2 trillion deficits.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Noneya- Im going to keep repeating myself until you realize you guys have taken the crown of fiscal irresponsibility.
This bill is an absolute disgrace.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:09 PM
The same people who did it before- Democrats.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Me?
Gay?
Since when?
The STRAPPING MALE MARINE in my bed every night does entertain fantasies….but…sorry I don’t switch hit.
*****Oh yeah,,,,, well there was that one time….at band camp….*****
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:13 PM
And let the Democrats OWN the sack of garbage.
ddrintn on February 5, 2009 at 5:14 PM
I have colleague who voted for Obama but is absolutely DISGUSTED by the Stimulus Bill.
Doesn’t take a lot of math skills to realize that when only 37% support this turd bill, there is a lot of people who voted for this clown but opposes the “Porkulus” plan.
Trillions in new debt, a worsening economy (per CBO and numerous economists) and pissed off former-supporters won’t win you a 2nd term.
Norwegian on February 5, 2009 at 5:14 PM
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, THANK YOU.
Califemme on February 5, 2009 at 5:14 PM
because the GOP was solely in power from 2001-2007 when the boom was happening.
Didn’t have enough votes for cloture or to stop a filibuster from a very disciplined minority party that put politics ahead of country. Kind of like they are right now. I wouldn’t expect you to know anything about how the government runs. You seem just barely able to insult people and spew far left talking points. Enjoy that Kool-Aid.
gitarfan on February 5, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:09 PM
It will be the gop and you know it.
Man up.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 5:15 PM
It hijacks the thread EVERY DAY! And the other one, sheesh.
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 5:16 PM
I know, I just couldn’t take any more idiotic comments from someone who refuses to read a book or news article… :)
Califemme on February 5, 2009 at 5:18 PM
The GOP will help expand the marketshare and lower lending standards of GSEs over corporate banks?
Are you kidding me?
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Too busy drinking kool-aid.
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 5:20 PM
No, seejanemom, noneya is gay…and obnoxious.
kingsjester on February 5, 2009 at 5:22 PM
How’s that stimulus bill doing in the polls? I mean, we were told constantly how in love the country is with Obama and how despised Dubya is, based on polls. The same poll-worshipers don’t seem to mention the popularity of the stimulus bill.
ddrintn on February 5, 2009 at 5:24 PM
http://readthestimulus.org/
izoneguy on February 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM
hot!
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM
SOOOOOOooooooooooooorry. Misunderstood. *****sheepish****
I thought it was because I was UNouting Windsey…..he is SO gay…..
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM
NONEforya, Noneya.
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Yeah…but McCain likes him…dunno why…
kingsjester on February 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Its AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall about THE CLOAKROOM, baby.
You know??….Windsey is a big reader…..likes his pages bent over.
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Leaving before I am “asked” to leave…. heeheeee….
*****someone has to cook dinner for my STRAPPING MARINE*****
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Tell your strapping Marine, thanks for his service. Lucky Jane. :)
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Well, we will have to see when they vote on proposed regulations.
McCain/Feingold just proposed a 60 vote approval for any earmarks in appropriation bills and full disclosure of lobbyist efforts amendment.
It failed 32-65.
Go figure.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Best of all…he was against gay marriage…and best for you, Krispy Kreme flourished under him…
right2bright on February 5, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Your argument pretty much sums up why so many voted for Barack Obama (other than the obvious white guilt). Anger and frustration over a sitting President, caused them to ignore the obvious about Obama – that he’s a naive ideologue. It’s an age-old argument, they said to themselves “how can it be any worse than it already is?”
Well we are all about to find out…
dugan on February 5, 2009 at 5:46 PM
tease!
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:46 PM
WTF?!?
It’s so great of her to be convinced on the price tag before she’s convinced of what can and should be done.
Here’s a novel thought – Come up with a SOLUTION!
Or (and this is even more novel) stay out of the way and let the market correct itself because government solutions always seem to make things worse.
JadeNYU on February 5, 2009 at 5:46 PM
you are just dying for me to engage you, aren’t you?
does it make it easier to just paste the face of rosie o’donnell on me?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Noneya? — You don’t get out much do you? Insofar as the financial meltdown is concerned the Dems did it! Did it!
Want some facts? Start by looking up Franklin Raines. How about Waters? And Meeks? There was no problem, according to the Dems! They are on youtube. We Republicans would eventually show our complete mastery of all things but we were wrongly blamed for the financial problems and thrust from power. And our leaders did not lead the donation list from Fannie and Freddie as the subhuman Democrats did! Nor did any have “sweetheart” mortgages from overaggressive sources or a long history of forcing garbage mortgages to be backed by government guarantees. Look up the Community Reinvestment Act and Acorn and The One’s involvement. Dems are up to their greasy, pencil necks in this mess.
You Republicans must be stronger to fight the SMEARS! Not like those rebuttals above, destroy the Dems. Of course Trolls are beneath contempt. So Noneya can be hit softly. Not worth more energy. I am just waiting for dinner.
See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
IlikedAUH2O on February 5, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Yeah- ping me when the Democrats turn on protecting gigantic government organizations that pay them millions in lobbying money. It will probably be the same day the GOP introduces federal protection for gay marriage.
Go figure? Well, was the 32 mostly GOP or mostly Dems?
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Rosie doesn’t get out much either. Gross AND gay…
IlikedAUH2O on February 5, 2009 at 5:55 PM
washington times didn’t link to the CBO letter, so I will…
Congressional Budget Office Blog: Macroeconomic Effects of the Senate Stimulus Legislation
PDF: CBO letter to Senator Judd Gregg
hatespam on February 5, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Stimulus, one whole helluva lot worse than doing nothing, says CBO
Speakup on February 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Nevermind getalife. Roll call’s in!
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00046
5 Democrats voted for this, 6 if you include Lieberman.
So the Democrats are overwhelmingly against graft and transparency.
Was that really the point you wanted to make or did you just confuse yourself again?
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:08 PM
And dumb. Basically, a typical liberal.
xblade on February 5, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Bad sentence structure above. Fixed.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:12 PM
Go figure? Well, was the 32 mostly GOP or mostly Dems?
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Have to wait until they post the numbers.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 6:16 PM
MB4 on February 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM
They did. Democrats overwhelmingly voted against making earmarks harder to obtain and adding more disclosure on lobbyists receiving our taxmoney.
You guys are real heroes!
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Looks bipartisan.
We were discussing proposed regulations for the housing mess to never happen again.
My point is if the President wants it, the gop will vote no like the stimulus.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 6:20 PM
You do know that Bush is not president?
Johan Klaus on February 5, 2009 at 6:23 PM
I haven’t read all the posts here (I will), but the update headline alone brought this to mind:
S-M-A-C-K D-O-W-N!!!!!!
ladyingray on February 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM
You’re hilarious!
You brought something up you knew nothing about and it bit you right in the ass.
It’s not bipartisan by any creative stretch.
FIVE TIMES more GOP were for more transparency and less earmarks than the Dems. And they are only 40% of the Senate.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:26 PM
You do know that congress, not the president, controls spending?
Johan Klaus on February 5, 2009 at 6:28 PM
We are in this mess because the American people borrowed far more far money than they could afford.
Obama’s solution to the mess is for the American government to borrow far more money than it can afford.
And this egg is your brain on hope.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:28 PM
We are in this mess because the American people borrowed far more far money than they could afford.
It goes further up the chain than that but now they have to fix it.
Your proposal is to do nothing?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 6:34 PM
They used to say the President Bush was bush league. The One doesn’t have a clue or a compass. And comes the question…
How Bad will this clown screw up in two months or (gasp!) two years.
IlikedAUH2O on February 5, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Your proposal is borrow more!?
the_nile on February 5, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Thank you for the link on that vote.
I’ve emailed Nelson (D-FL) twice and spoke with his office today for a while. I will call again tomorrow. I can’t believe he couldn’t vote Yea on this.
I called Martinez today–his Jax office couldn’t tell me how he was going to vote on the stimulus!
INC on February 5, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Circa 2012:
Just about four years ago I set out on Obama’s bailout road,
Seekin a better job, lookin for a 401k pot of gold.
Well things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
Oh ! lord, stuck on Obama’s bailout road again.
The Hope and Change man in the White House said yet again good times were on the way.
Somewhere I lost his connection, he ran out of words to say.
Once more I listened to his chorus line, another one year stand, looks like the plans fell through
Oh ! lord, stuck on Obama’s bailout road again.
MB4 on February 5, 2009 at 6:39 PM
1. Did Califcon support that spending? Just because he may be Republican he cannot blast this administration?
2) Let me see if I have this right…insane spending under Bush begets insane spending under Obama?
Something is absent here
That something is logic
Jamson64 on February 5, 2009 at 6:40 PM
I see him standing in the rain
Raindrops falling on him
He doesn’t even seem to care
He stands there and smiles as if just at me
And I know
(I know, I know, I know, I know)
He will make me rich and happy
(rich, rich, happy, happy).
Money in his hair
Money everywhere
I love the Money Man
Oh, I don´t know just why
His Hope and Change simply catches my eye
I love the Money Man
He seems so generous and kind
He sweeps thoughts of $$$ into my mind
I know I have to say bravo
(bravo, bravo)
He smiles over at me
It’s as if he takes me by the hand
And we walk
To the bank alone
And I know
(I know, I know, I know, I know)
He will make me rich and happy
(rich, rich, happy, happy).
Money in his hair
Money everywhere
MB4 on February 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Didn’t you read all the links? The CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE thinks this bill is worse than nothing.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Yes we must do something, anything argggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhh
/sarc
the politics of fear rears its ugly head
Jamson64 on February 5, 2009 at 6:44 PM
AP banned Noneya on the Palin thread. She won’t be replying.
INC on February 5, 2009 at 6:48 PM
We are not shooting enough
professorsHotair Bloggers (LeninObama‘steleBlackberrygram)MB4 on February 5, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Rearrange the deck chairs! Strike up the band!
Don’t worry – be happy!
platypus on February 5, 2009 at 6:50 PM
I bet she has that Sarah winking pic as her monitor wallpaper.
platypus on February 5, 2009 at 6:52 PM
I did not expect a coherent response anyway.
Jamson64 on February 5, 2009 at 6:53 PM
A good starting point for you, would be to look in the mirror and find your nose … that said, there are multiple factors, and elements that are at the cause and affect of the present financial meltdown. All of the below can be found doing a “Google” search.
With any crack, or chasm, there has to be a starting point, and time-line of events. Most of those issues have been discussed in one way or another, and posted. There are many elements, and facets to the financial meltdown and not a just lay at the feet of, and blame G.W. Bush as some here would like to pretend, you included.
To name just a few that are to blame:
* Start with, The 1977 Community Reinvestment Act.
* President Jimmy Carter signed the CRA.
* President H.W. Bush embraced the CRA.
* During the 1990s, President Bill Clinton enhanced the CRA.
* During the 90s, several Amendments to the 1977 CRA.
* A misguided House and Senate.
* Creating and propping up Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac.
* President G.W. Bush warned about the CRA, but went along.
* Fed Chair Allan Greenspan lowered, and kept rates to low, to long!
* The CRA Forced bankers to lend trillions in sub-primes.
* Greedy misguided Wall Street bankers.
* Greedy and stupid insurance companies.
* Stupid greedy Wall Street sub-prime bundle-rs and investors.
* Stupid and greedy foreign investors.
* Our government have their fingerprints all over this mess!
The problem is Noneya, other than repeating the missteps of the 1929/1930s, the present bozos that created this mess, have no intentions of admitting their mistakes, nor are they going to fix it. In a nutshell, a trillion plus dollar paint job won’t fix this train wreck!
byteshredder on February 5, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM
The CBO does not have a very good record but the premise of the bill is to create jobs.
It would be negligent to do nothing with a job report out tomorrow showing another 500 thousand jobs lost.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Jamson64,
Noneya’s comments and replies were far off the deep end. I was torn between horror and feeling sorry for her.
INC on February 5, 2009 at 7:01 PM
You won’t find very many conservatives praising Bush for that. We tend to be more realistic and adhere to principle, rather than think deficits are only bad when they’re rung up by the other party.
Deficits on top of deficits as far as the eye can see is insanity.
ddrintn on February 5, 2009 at 7:02 PM
More negligent than a $2 trillion deficit?
Nah.
The Democrats can’t produce a single respectable study that blowing $900 billion on mostly welfare and wealth redistribution will create any impact on jobs.
Because it doesnt.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 7:07 PM
My attacks on you, are about as valid as your attacks on President Bush…I know you, about as well as you knew President Bush.
I read what you write, and I form an opinion…you read what is told to you, and you form an opinion.
The difference is mine is first hand, from your “pen”, what you hear is fed to you by dKos, or MediaMatters, etc.
And I am pretty certain your image is not much better then Rosie’s, since you are the one who brought that up.
right2bright on February 5, 2009 at 7:23 PM
OT:
More good news: President Obama Likely to Order Military Commission Charges Dropped Against Terrorist Suspect Al-Nashiri Friday
Anyone up for carpooling with me to 1600 PA Ave? Bring your own pitchfork.
Damiano on February 5, 2009 at 7:35 PM
so…this is cool…but how bout a post about Michael Steele asking for the resignation of basically everyone at the RNC…nice housecleaning!
cappy718 on February 5, 2009 at 7:46 PM
OUCH!!! Too funny!!!
uncivilized on February 5, 2009 at 7:50 PM
It says Obama is going to have the gall to meet with families of victims of terrorist attacks on 9/11 and on the U.S.S. Cole.
I hope they burn his ears.
INC on February 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Fixed what?? How did we get from people buying houses to Presidents signing bills so fast???
Look, nobody FORCED anyone to buy a house they couldn’t afford – nobody. Not President Bush, not Nancy Pelosi, not Harry Reid. I agree, there’s plenty of blame to go around – but the last I heard, this is still a free country. That means you have to exercise some personal responsibility – as opposed to expecting government to take care of you and fix all your mistakes.
uncivilized on February 5, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Lindsey grew a mighty big pair over night.
mindhacker on February 5, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Collins voicemail is full so they won’t accept any more calls. They just goodby and hang up on you.It is past time for pitchforks and torches folks. They will kill us all with their tyranical treachery.
wepeople on February 5, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Look at Collins’ website and get a local office to call. Too late for tonight though.
I’ve had to do that on occasion.
INC on February 5, 2009 at 8:05 PM
FU Collins… Worthless POS…
Keemo on February 5, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Over 300 Economists Oppose the Stimulus Package (Cato Institute)
Poptech on February 5, 2009 at 8:34 PM
http://www.scsuscholars.com/2009/02/cost-benefit-analysis-of-stimulus.html
Says you cannot tell net gain or not from the CBO.
Zaggs on February 5, 2009 at 8:50 PM
So one of the lefty readers is saying that if we borrow a trillion dollars we could have no more than 1% GDP growth this year?
I think we should borrow $5 trillion then. None of these projections take into account inevitable massive tax hikes to pay for this mess, so as long as were in the land of make believe, lets swing for the Jumbotron
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Letter…
elgeneralisimo on February 5, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Now that the election is over and Obama is ensconced in the WH, the media (and, yes, Fox News) have gone back to designating John McCain (and his shadow Graham) their favorite Republican(s). McCain took 3 shots at the WH and lost everytime. His time is over. It is time to MoveOn as they say.
Now I don’t have the slightest inkling as to how to accomplish it but Republicans must provide new faces for the party. It is time to rebrand. If I had my druthers, the new faces would be people like Coburn, Cantor and Pence but there are a lot of people that could fill the role. The thing is it can’t be McCain; it must be anybody beside McCain.
thegreatbeast on February 5, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Question: Does the Senate cloture rule require the majority to reach 60 votes to stop a filibuster, or the minority to come up with 41 to maintain one? The reason I am asking is because Franken is not seated so the dems are automatically down at least 1. who are the 60 Reid says they have?
txmomof6 on February 5, 2009 at 9:18 PM
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