Graham goes nuclear on Obama over stimulus: “Scaring people is not leadership”; Update: Stimulus worse than doing nothing, says CBO; Update: Or does it?
posted at 2:35 pm on February 5, 2009 by Allahpundit
In my three years of blogging at HA, this may be the first time I’ve seen the boss and Grahamnesty on exactly the same wavelength. Credit where credit is due: I thought he and McCain would be a collective rubber stamp for The One on all things “bipartisan” but they’ve both come out hard against this boondoggle. And then some: This is as close to bareknuckle as you’ll ever see from this guy, especially the shots at Obama’s leadership. I figured the GOP would keep triangulating between Obama and Pelosi, blaming the Democrats while staying well clear of attacking our new Messiah, but it looks like the bill is now sufficiently toxic that they think they can use it to score some points on him, too. Sweet.
Reid says they’ve got the votes. And, per MM, it sounds like he’s right:
Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine said Obama, in a meeting with her on Wednesday, had persuaded her that the ultimate bill should be “in the neighborhood of $800 billion.”
“The president did convince me,” she said, adding that she believed the two sides would reach a compromise on the Senate stimulus package on Thursday.
Update: Via Instapundit, turns out The One is right to be afraid. Just not for the reason he thinks.
CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing…
CBOs basic assumption is that, in the long run, each dollar of additional debt crowds out about a third of a dollars worth of private domestic capital, CBO said in its letter.
CBO said there is no crowding out in the short term, so the plan would succeed in boosting growth in 2009 and 2010.
Update: One of our three lefty readers e-mails to say that the Wash Times misread the CBO letter to Gregg and that there actually will be net growth. The key passage from the story is this:
CBO estimates that by 2019 the Senate legislation would reduce GDP by 0.1 percent to 0.3 percent on net…
The agency projected the Senate bill would produce between 1.4 percent and 4.1 percent higher growth in 2009 than if there was no action. For 2010, the plan would boost growth by 1.2 percent to 3.6 percent.
The confusion lies in the term “on net.” Does that refer to the entire period from 2009 to 2019 or the period not including 2009 and 2010, since specific growth numbers for those two years are provided? If the former, then the Times is right and CBO is claiming that the loss in GDP from 2011 to 2019 will wipe out any growth over the next two years for a net loss. If the latter, then the Times is way off. Simple math, per the guy who e-mailed me:
2009: 1.4 to 4.1
2010: 1.2 to 3.6
2011-2019: -0.1 to -0.3Worst Case 2009-2019: 1.4 + 1.2 – 0.3 = 2.3% positive total effect
Best Case 2009-2019: 4.1 + 3.6 – 0.1 = 7.7% positive total effect
I’m trying to find a copy of the CBO letter to resolve the discrepancy but the site is down right now. Can anyone help?
Blowback
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It was not a bathtub, it was an “undisclosed location” and it wasn’t the left, it was dick cheney.
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM
I’m in the People’s Republic of Maryland (with all the hypocricy and twice the socialism of DC), so I can’t say much. I’ll take Ventura over our commie bastards.
Laura in Maryland on February 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins should be having their phones ringing off the hook. These are the two that could very well lead to the passing of this disaster. I too was worried about the positions of McCain and Graham when this got started, but the way Graham is describing the total “shutout” of input by the Republican Party in both the house and the senate, there should be no choice but to NOT LET THIS BILL COME TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE!
If Snowe or Collins is in your district, get off the keyboards and call them RIGHT NOW! There is little time to waste if these two have considered an agreement with the Dem leadership.
p.s. Way to go Graham! It’s about time!
Rovin on February 5, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Video: Graham takes it to the Senate floor
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=273373
CP on February 5, 2009 at 3:24 PM
2010, that’s all the dems need to stay in power. Then in 2011 we can spend 5 TRILLION dollars on another boondoggle.
Whoooooopppppeeee!!!
James on February 5, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Maybe if you promise to stop shaving your pitts, the KosKids might take you back, Sweetie.
Laura in Maryland on February 5, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Anyone ever get the feeling that something is badly wrong in her life?
Bishop on February 5, 2009 at 3:25 PM
getalife,
you haven’t answered my questions.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 3:25 PM
It’s a catastrophe!!!!!!
WisCon on February 5, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Finally, Graham is showing some grapes.
madmonkphotog on February 5, 2009 at 3:25 PM
care to remember this?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Laura in Maryland on February 5, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Thanks, Laura. Bwahahahahaha.
Noneya, Precious, The VP was with the Secret Service so that he and the President would not be together during the attack. It’s that whole Chain of Command and Security of the Nation thing.
kingsjester on February 5, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Perhaps we would have if Bush had ever actually said such things. But, as you know, he did not. Unlike your idiot Zero, the man who campaigned against the “politics of fear” (and wasteful spending), the same Zero who shrilly warned the nation yesterday that failure to pass his massive pork spending bill would result in “catastrophe” and a recession from which we will never recover.
Way to inspire confidence, Zero. For once in his life, Graham is right: as a leader, The Zero is pathetic.
AZCoyote on February 5, 2009 at 3:31 PM
The sky is falling. I was outside and it’s sinking closer to the earth. Hurry up and pass the bill so all the hot air coming out of that bill will push the sky back up
I think we are beyond screwed without lube
We are just plain F@#$#@
Brat4life on February 5, 2009 at 3:32 PM
the coward was in hiding for far longer than just that day
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Graham finally sounds like a conservative. It’s the first thing that I’ve ever heard coming from his mouth that sounded like anything but political pandering. Even if he’s pandering now, at least he’s pandering to the right people.
After this disaster of a bill fails to do anything to stimulate the economy, I hope that the idiots who keep electing liberals pull their collective heads out of their collective arses and send them home.
Our children and grandchildren already have debt that they’ll never be able to re-pay and all these bastards will be dead and gone.
orlandocajun on February 5, 2009 at 3:34 PM
The problem with your logic is that what you claim never actually happened. But then, you don’t use logic, do you?
bilups on February 5, 2009 at 3:37 PM
BDS rages on. There is no cure.
jewells45 on February 5, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Focus, kid.
Bush added $4 trillion to the gross national debt in 8 years.
Obama’s going to get us 25% of the way with one stroke of his hand.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 3:39 PM
I normally do not feed the trolls, however, you could call Dick Cheney a lot of things, but coward was never, ever one of them, you insufferable little pissant.
califcon on February 5, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Yes, Virginia, it’s now patently obvious that the Obamastration doesn’t have a clue when it comes to governing.
bmac727 on February 5, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Stroke it to the left, stroke it to the right.
jewells45 on February 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Is the Senator with the girl’s name finally pulling his head out from where its been for the last couple of years?
We can only hope . . .
Ryan Gandy on February 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM
again, does no one remember this?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Calling Cheney a coward opens you up for the same type of disrespect. Idiot.
You have no clue. Hopefully you grow up some day.
Vince on February 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM
You’re not going to hijack the thread, dope.
Defend your lord savior’s $2 trillion deficits.
Chuck Schick on February 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM
if I said that then you would give me a lecture on not being christian…
right4life on February 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Yes, Bush used fear. All politicians use fear. I bet you can’t name a politician that didn’t use fear to motivate his/her base. The thing is that Obama was bashing Bush for using fear when he himself was doing the same thing as Bush. All of Obama’s campaign ads were basically “Look at how much the economy sucks. Vote for me. McCain=Bush.”
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM
So far the trolls arguments for this are:
1) 500,000 jobs losses are real (as if this will fix job losses – no, they’ll likely go to 500 million)
2) Bush and Cheney rightly criticized the irresponsible proposals for National Defense of John Kerry.
Let’s just wait and see the change this crap sandwich brings.
Was your life really so miserable for 8 years?
kirkill on February 5, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Democrats are allowed to scare people. Different rules for the righteous.
Vince on February 5, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Bush did not “use” fear. He explained the threats to our country. The terrorist threat. he told people to go shopping for crissakes, never wallowed in fear. He explained our enemy and told us how he was going to secure the country from further attack. He never said we were doomed, that cities would go up in smoke if we didn’t fall in line lock step behind him.
Obama, with his first piece of legislation, has resorted to the politics of fear and has soured the mood of the American people and economy in the progress. For him, a sour economy is a good thing as it proves capitalism “wrong” without even giving it a fighting chance. He’s drowning our system, in effect, OBAMA is WATERBOARDING the economy.
Alas, it’s all in vain, we will all be subservient to the Obama administration when it all goes to crap, if the Republicans don’t grow a spine and allow all this to happen. If there was ever a time for the minority to exercise its rights, it is now. Use the filibuster. Educate the American people, and throw this bill out to pasture. Tax Cuts should be the mantra and Obama is wrong when he says it is a failed theory. Obama is WRONG, I repeat. WRONG!
James on February 5, 2009 at 3:51 PM
How do you post, and stuff those Krispy Kremes in your mouth?
Your anger is really “weighing” you down, it is making you “heavy” of heart…and when you are challenged, all you give back is “fat” excuses…you must be very lonely.
But you have Krispy Kremes to keep you happy…have another, you can start your diet tomorrow…or the next day.
You should be come happy, you know gay.
right2bright on February 5, 2009 at 3:53 PM
BOHICA, and not even the courtesy of a reach around.
kirkill on February 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Will we see a revised CBO report to conform with Mr. Obama’s stimulus package?
Cindy Munford on February 5, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and then misapplying the wrong remedies.
- Groucho
MB4 on February 5, 2009 at 3:56 PM
yes, but I bet it was even worse on your 401K. Imagine if we didn’t have a President with an MBA, ay?/
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 3:57 PM
who was running congress for the last 2 years when this happened???? hmmmmm?? oh yeah democRATs were….
of course they had NOTHING to do with it…innocent as the wind driven snow….they were too busy cheating on their taxes…
right4life on February 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM
You do realize we live in a democracy, right? You do realize that the president has no control of you people’s 401k’s right???
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Meanwhile, Bush and Cheney’s policies have kept us safe for these years…AQ is a shell of what they were under Clinton and the liberals.
But don’t fear liberals, Obama is dedicated to reviving AQ, and making them strong again…now not purposely (he’s not that smart), but by virtue of his policies.
Hopefully he will at least accomplish a couple of thing the first 100 days.
One of them is to fill his cabinet with people who are not thieves…fortunately he is choosing some Republicans so we know there won’t be a problem there…it’s the liberals, tax evasion, heavily fined (a record), hiring illegal immigrants, and even worse, cheating them out of SS.
What a mess he is making, but hey, he is proposing a “stimulus bill” that has about 25% “stimulus” and 75% pork.
You can put lipstick on a liberal…but it is still becomes pork…
right2bright on February 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Don’t feed the troll…let Krispy Kreme do it…
right2bright on February 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Exactly! All Barry succeeded in doing was saying “Me = Hypocrite.”
right4life on February 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM
No, I wouldn’t. I’m not perfect.
But there’s a right way to couch disapproval with something, and a wrong way.
“I hope you die, scum” doesn’t cut it.
Ryan Gandy on February 5, 2009 at 4:05 PM
He’s being realistic. Right now the Democrats are scaring up votes: “People are losing their homes, their savings, their jobs every day.” You have to put something in there to ease their minds and tell them you’re working toward solutions. I was very impressed by this speech, even if it’s convenient.
chunderroad on February 5, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Ditto. I really enjoy it when ANY Republican Senator talks like this, much less when it is a guy like Graham.
They occasionally get me all excited like this, but usually let me down again within a day or so. Hopefully they will not disappoint and back down on this one.
LegendHasIt on February 5, 2009 at 4:07 PM
I am sorry but the cbo is consistany
WRONG.
Each time it has over estimated the impact and underestimated the costs..
So to hear them now crying does nothing to convince me..
jcila on February 5, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Look out! The nutroots are getting their marching orders from HuffnPuff: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/operation-zero-cred_b_164377.html
WHO has zero-cred? Snort.
Seems they really could care less about tackling the real issues. They just can’t bear to have Dear Leader suffer a set-back.
starboardhelm on February 5, 2009 at 4:09 PM
so the policies of bush had no impact on our shitty economy? uhhh, ok, whatever you say…
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:09 PM
and the Democratic congress
Hilts on February 5, 2009 at 4:12 PM
No the president of the United States really doesn’t have control of the economy (or at least they shouldn’t). Just a reminder: We have a free market system. Which means if people start buying houses they can’t afford it’s not Washington’s fault.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Ha! I told ya the bimbos from Maine would sell out. Email and fax that wingnut.
dogsoldier on February 5, 2009 at 4:13 PM
so the policies of bush had no impact on our shitty economy? uhhh, ok, whatever you say…
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Yeah, watching mccain whine on the floor now. They act like they never destroyed the economy.
Not men enough to admit it.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:09 PM
I am going to write this as slowly as I can, so that you might understand. The beloved Democratic Congress with the 9 % approval rating and those that went before them brought us to this. And while we’re at it, let’s discuss foreign investors and speculators behind the scenes that may have something to do with our economic problems.
And let’s talk about Unions and ineffectual CEO’s. Get off of it. It is way too easy and simple to blame Booosh for everything.
kingsjester on February 5, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Lindsey Graham? Meh.
Getting to hear Jane Skinner say, “…getting juicy?” Mmmmm.
tbradshaw on February 5, 2009 at 4:18 PM
so who passed that tarp bailout??? couldn’t have been the democRATs they were too busy cheating on taxes…
and its worked SOOO well….
and who passed CRA?? and who took it to a whole new level??? hint: carter/clinton
right4life on February 5, 2009 at 4:21 PM
You still haven’t answered any of my questions.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:21 PM
That free market needed to be reined in with stricter regulations during the housing boom in the mid 2000′s when the GOP was in charge of both congress and the white house, but I’m sure you will still find a way to blame the dems for this in 3… 2… 1..
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:24 PM
If Lindsay Graham is showing his Y chromosome, this must be a crap sandwich.
Did the RNC health insurance finally start paying for testosterone?
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Wish they would have been doing this kind of talk years ago. Glad to see the good start….
DL13 on February 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM
they are also trying to type with a straight face that Bush never used the politics of fear…
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Years of government manipulation of the housing market is what screwed up the economy. This was the mostly work of Democrats, but Republicans should have done more to stop it while they had power.
forest on February 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM
they tried too, but remember the democRATs in the senate blocked them….DODD anyone??
you know they had to protect old Franklin Raines (democRAT) and his 90 MILLION dollar job…
right4life on February 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:21 PM
What is your question and keep in mind I do not engage in name callers or failed ideology?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:27 PM
You truly are dumb as a box of rocks…..
Okay, I’ll be the GOP schill…
I give you BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DODD.
2005, the GOP tried to get a handle on fannie and freddie, you dope.
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 4:27 PM
That’s funny, Obama is going to the non-highest ranking republicans, giving them the power of the voice, and winning their votes while making the leadership look dumb.
PresidenToor on February 5, 2009 at 4:28 PM
which GOP “bimbo” got knocked up before marriage and then raised a teenage daughter who did the same?
hint, she’s not from Maine….
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:29 PM
No. What needed to happen was for people not to buy houses they couldn’t afford. It’s actually not much more complicated than that.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Stay classy.
Ryan Gandy on February 5, 2009 at 4:31 PM
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Wow, they had that power with a complete gop majority?
Could it be they were focused in deregulation when they had that majority?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:31 PM
getalife,
Here were my questions.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Mean.
Funny, tho…very funny. ;-)
ladyingray on February 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM
you mean 2 members of the MINORITY party did all that and are solely to blame?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:34 PM
which GOP “bimbo” got knocked up before marriage and then raised a teenage daughter who did the same?
hint, she’s not from Maine….
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Ok, Noneya, the daliykos just called they need you to come back. It is your turn to be the pivot man in the circle jerk.
milwife88 on February 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM
If we are talking about ‘reigning in’ regulation during the housing boom, let’s see, which presidents leaned on banks, which community organizing groups leaned on banks, to lend to people that had no way of paying back the loans they were given…..
Ding Ding Ding.
Answer is:
Jimmy Carter, Bubba Clinton, and ACORN.
Being a ‘proud independent’, why are you siding with noneya, life?
HornetSting on February 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM
You are truly the lowest of the low. Using personal attacks to deflect the losing of an argument.
stay classy BDS sufferer.
baxtrice on February 5, 2009 at 4:36 PM
well, someone had to lend them that money, right?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Harry, you got the 60 votes, right? Now, own this, putz.
Christien on February 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Yet here you are, liberal as ever.
Kelligan on February 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM
terryannonline
I was referring to the so called “politics of fear” comment from Jim Treacher .
What cheney spewed yesterday was politics of fear and how can dick predict a terrorist attack when he missed 9/11?
This economic disaster is real.
Did that answer your question?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Funny how you blame the only 2 democrat presidents in the past 30 years for the failures during Bush’s 8 years….
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Okay, so I would approve helping out all those mortgage holders who were forced at gunpoint to sign bad mortgages for homes they could never hope to afford. But nobody else. Because I didn’t go there and they didn’t have to.
califcon on February 5, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I dunno…looks like there are plenty of Cabinet positions available – she could just about take her pick, couldn’t she?
uncivilized on February 5, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Kelligan on February 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Not liberal, proud Independent.
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:43 PM
I don’t see a comment from Jim Treacher on this thread on the politics of fear.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM
So Graham wants a 400+ billion dollar bill and I’m supposed to be excited because it’s half of the other monstrosity?
pugwriter on February 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM
why didn’t you guys speak up when dogsoldier wrote this sexist statement?
I’m guessing it’s because the female GOP senators from Maine aren’t GMILF’s with that naughty librarian look, right?
Noneya on February 5, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Yes, I blame the lenders also. They should have never loan money to people that can’t afford it. You have a point. However, it’s still not the federal government’s fault.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Yes, yes you are. Pretty discouraging isn’t it?
Cindy Munford on February 5, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Oh, you’re right, of course…there’s no reason to expect grown folks who are capable of signing a mortgage to exhibit anything like “PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY”, is there?
uncivilized on February 5, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Wow. Grahamnesty is really worked up. It’s nice to see it a bit from him. Now if he’d just stop trying to propose an alternative and say “NO!” altogether we’d be on the same wavelength.
PersonalLiberty on February 5, 2009 at 4:48 PM
The Porkulus package has NO public support (12% who believe it will actually help the US economy is less than the 17% approval rating for Congress).
Lindsey the weathervane Graham is against Porkulus, so who needs polling data. Look for the Gang of 14 to take this crazy train into a ditch and speak of the need to compromise. I don’t expect to hear Chuck Schumer talking about cups and saucers, but that would be a nice touch.
Angry Dumbo on February 5, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Noneya,
Jimmah started the program, Bubba enhanced the program, the Democrat congress protected the program. Why is that so hard to understand?
gitarfan on February 5, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Jealous???
uncivilized on February 5, 2009 at 4:50 PM
With mmy ear to the pulse of South Carolina politics (Windsey and I graduated the same high school–though years apart—but ***not***) and you either LOVE him or you HAAAAAAAAATE him.
I can tell you from FIRST HAND CONVERSATIONS WITH THE VERY MOST INFLUENTIAL STATE GOP leader in South Carolina>>>>>WINDSEY IS ON HIS WAY OUT. O . U . T……..and if he so much as looks longingly at a Liberal in the Cloakroom (Pages don’t count)he is going to find his happy loafers CALLED HOME.
If it could be my personal mission to see him defeated…it would be time well spent, but I throw up in my mouth at the very sound of his INFERNAL LISP.
I just wish SOMEONE would just OUT him to all the little Dixiecrat Baptist Church Ladies that keep voting for him back home>>>>>maybe a little good old fashioned homophobia would cure what is ailing South Carolina>>>>nay>>>the NATION.
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 4:51 PM
However, it’s still not the federal government’s fault.
terryannonline on February 5, 2009 at 4:47 PM
So, who regulates the lenders?
getalife on February 5, 2009 at 4:53 PM
QUOTE OF THE THREAD:
seejanemom on February 5, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Im sick of this government IMPEACH OBAMA! IMPEACH PELOSI! IMPEACH REID!
kthomas8268 on February 5, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I think you missed the point. You used a mistake that someone made and trying to destroy them because of it.
I’m going to guess that dogsoldier said what he said out of frustration with a republican senator supporting this porked up bill. Do I condone it? Nope, but jumping to conclusions without common sense is what our Congress is doing anyway, so by all means..act like the fools in DC.
baxtrice on February 5, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I couldn’t bring myself to listen to him. Even if he has good arguments and things to say, because of his betrayal on other issues Grahm detracts from the credibility of conservatism. He doesn’t add to it.
The truth coming from the lips of the devil, while the truth, always has some hidden agenda.
samuelrylander on February 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM
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