Ben Stein withdraws as UVM commencement speaker after outcry over intelligent design
posted at 8:54 pm on February 3, 2009 by Allahpundit
Ben Stein described the brouhaha over his selection as commencement speaker at the University of Vermont as “laughable” on Tuesday called the whole episode “pathetic.”…
“I am far more pro-science than the Darwinists,” Stein said later in an e-mail. “I want all scientific inquiry to happen — not just what the ruling clique calls science.”
Stein’s comments came a day after UVM President Dan Fogel announced that Stein, whom Fogel had invited to address UVM’s commencement in May, would not be coming after all. Fogel said that his selection of Stein generated an intense protest, that he received hundreds of angry e-mails over the weekend, and that after he shared these “profound concerns” with Stein, Stein “immediately and most graciously declined our commencement invitation.”…
Stein called the university’s response to the furor “chicken sh**, and you can quote me on that.”
“I like Dr. Fogel,” Stein wrote, “and feel sorry he is caught in the meat grinder of political correctness. My heart goes out to him. He’s a great guy trying to do his best in difficult circumstances.”
I don’t care that he’s a creationist any more than I’d care if he were a phrenologist. It’s goofy, but so long as he doesn’t turn the speech into a lecture on the subject, I’m willing to tolerate his eccentricity. What I wouldn’t tolerate is his egregious bad-faith attempt to equate Darwinism with social Darwinism. Why would an audience filled with scientists and science majors want to be addressed by a guy who believes “science leads you to killing people”? Better yet, why would that guy want to address them? It’d be like inviting a liberal who believes conservatism is inherently racist to guest-blog on Hot Air. I get enough flak for linking HuffPo occasionally in Headlines that I can imagine how that’d go down with our readers.
Exit question: Can it really be that we’re creeping up on 9 p.m. on the east coast without a post yet on this from LGF?
Blowback
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try reading the link…
where is my mutation sequence for the eye evolving??
you try again.
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Meanwhile while you are digging for peer reviewed papers that don’t exist, there are literally hundreds of thousands that support evolution Here.
PlOS is a great science resource btw, folks might want to bookmark it.
Tark on February 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM
That’s all your mama charges
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Papers…. as in plural. I”ve just linked hundreds of thousands, where are yours?
Tark on February 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM
At least you are a compassionate goddess.
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Suppose I said that periodically it enters a cave, and six months later it comes out followed by another car very much like it — perhaps a different color, perhaps with a slightly larger or smaller engine.
Did I mention that there is also a complex automated oil production and refining mechanism at which our automobile can feed itself? Also, at the other end of the cave there is an automated steel production plant. And yes, the oil and steel production facilities, along with the tool & die companies that supply them, etc. are all self-replicating one way or another.
By the way, one of the explorers believes that not only have people been there to build all of this; but that they must be very smart people to have built it in a self-sustaining way.
The other explorer radios word back to the explorers society, telling them what has been found and that the first explorer believes the island has been visited — and perhaps maintained in some ways — by people.
As a result, the explorers society has withdrawn the first explorer’s credentials. His retarded notion that all of those cars, oil production facilities, and steel mills were built — rather than spontaneously generated — is decried as unscientific piddle-dee-poop.
Of course, this is a flawed analogy; people are much more complex than cars, and our habitat is much more complex than oil refineries and steel mills. So it’s considerably more likely that the island “just happened” than it is that human beings “just happened”.
RegularJoe on February 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Spoken like a superstitious primitive! Typical magic worshipper!!
See we all devolve down to your level.
Ann NY on February 4, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Just follow the money. Why do you think so many cling on to global warming? Money. Why do you think there are people that think socialism is good? Greed. Why would people go out on a limb to try to find truth using ALL tools and theories available? Well, they’d have to not need money.
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:21 PM
If there is a God, why poop & farts? Celestial humor?
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM
At least my mama takes cash. Yours takes CRA mortgage-backed securities as payment.
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM
supporting evolution…you mean using the word ‘evolution’ and expecting the rest of us to bow before the alter of darwin..
still waiting for that mutation sequence for the eye..
oh and go ahead and explain the tuatara…why its ‘micro’ evolution hasn’t added up to macro..
thanks!
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM
more lies from the lying darwiniac…haven’t evolved a truth gene yet I guess..
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:23 PM
I’d club all the Priuses and corral the hemis to breed the ultimate gas-guzzler….0-60 whenever you want .
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM
I realize this is done bcs of the lack of any other idea, which is crap.
I don’t really think MOST scientists look at science as a God replacement, but I wager it’s quite a few.
The ones I know do not.
Thankfully, I’m not one of those teachers of whom you speak.
Critical thinking is still alive, but has officially died in some venues.
Shame.
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Heh. Shrinkage.
I think the Bible is fairly clear that we were created for entertainment.
Esthier on February 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I am neither compassionate, nor particularly good at spelling. Apathetic, and tired of your attack against a screen name that I no longer use here because of you. Although, it is flattering in a perverse, twisted sort of way that you do refer to me as a goddess, even in sarcasm. If you really didn’t like me, you’d ignore me.
I like you, though. I wish you were more like alpacalyps, though… he really thought he could bring me back into the fold. Go on, you know you want to ridicule my beliefs a little more. And I’ll keep on respecting yours right back.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM
And what if you accidentally already ground off that piece of the lens that would lead you to God? Oopsy!
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM
nor truthful, nor intelligent, nor honest..
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Aw crap….you win
I’ll never tire of our bantering :)
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Hey you two! Stop trying to inject humor into an otherwise mundane and well-beaten argument!
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Easy tiger….it’s just a metaphor ;)
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
oh and since we’re all ‘evolved’ from a common ancestor with chimps, apes, etc…explain this:
I posted this before, but the darwiniacs ignore it…best to ignore that which they have no answers for…
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Could you point us to the one that describes the random process that creates order?
Maxx on February 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
You have a real point here, my friend.
As to whether or not evil invalidates the tools it uses, I would answer that if science – which itself is nothing more than a tool – wants to take credit for the good it does, like medicine, it MUST rightly take blame for the evil it does as well. Once science ceases to be a tool in someone else’s hands and become an “entity” capable of deciding its own morality (read Michael Onfrey on how to scientifically decide morality – scary stuff), it bears responsibility for its actions.
Right now, scientists like Dawkins and Dennett want to have it both ways. Science gets credit for medicine saving lives, but Nazi experiments on Jews were not science’s fault.
I think this stems from science’s general redicence on goinjg where the evidence points. If, as I believe, modern science is infected with 19th century political ideas, then the shrillness of evolutionists makes sense; they don’t want science to become beholden to Religious based morality for the direction it heads into. They want science to play the God-role in morality so that whatever direction they head into has an appeal to a dispassionate “Wizard of Oz” that they control.
Very Victorian if you ask me.
papabryant on February 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
I didn’t write those words, however his name calling form of argument does give evidence that he may very well be all of the things that the person claimed (sorry, I forgot who wrote the original post). This guy has constantly called atheists nazis and murderers and with that doesn’t have the right to be treated civilly. He flunks every test of logic with his arguments. Hitler was a vegetarian so all vegetarians must be like Hitler? This is the level of discussion we should be tolerant of?
Ann NY on February 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM
As well-beaten as MC’s todger, and thrice as tired.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Now that’s messed up. You don’t know me, so why do you doubt my honesty and integrity?
I won’t argue the intelligence part… chort knows I was dumb enough to get involved in the first place.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Right4life I will grant you some respect, you are indefatigable in your ignorance.
I’ve got to get to work, I linked 96 videos above the detail the sequence of the evolution of the eye, it was also detailed in the Kitzmiller trial, where a Conservative judge found against Discovery Institute. You can google “Kitzmiller” I’m sure. Atm I have to get to work.
Tark on February 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Sorry if I touched a sore spot. You do have a link that says “talesofagoddess”, and maybe I presumed too much.
Let’s start over, “Hi”. How did you get here? Oh! Your mom and dad did THAT?! Nice. How did they get here? Oh! How long has this been going on? Billions and Billions of years?! Really? You don’t say… How did it happen that a single cell decided to divide 500 go-zillion times create the pleasure to drive a man to procreate with a woman?
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:29 PM
The account of Genesis in the Bible is not consistent with modern cosmology, nor is the story of Noah consistent with what we know now about evolution. Unless you’re metaphorically reading the Bible, that is. In which case the walls of Jericho did not actually come tumbling down, etc.
starfleet_dude on February 4, 2009 at 12:29 PM
When Einstein’s general theory of relativity was first published, there were no peer-reviewed papers that supported it. But, it was accepted by many as a new scientific theory at that time. The theory of evolution has lots of papers because it is 100+ years old, but none of these papers provide empirical proof that dogs turned into something other than some kind of dog. So, lots of peer-reviewed papers doesn’t get you much. Sorry about that chief.
NuclearPhysicist on February 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM
It’s like a dance…a fox trot that one of us ends by cold-cocking the other.
Sorry, I’ll get back on topic.
You crazy fools with your magic and stupid religion! Don’t you know that the universe started 6 billion years ago with um…a…big…BANG! Yeah and then everything just popped into existence. That’s science!
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM
You evil Satan-worshipping atheist! My lord will SMITE you for using the brain that I believe he designed and put in your head!
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:31 PM
LOL Nicely put
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:31 PM
don’t see the link…but I’m sure its along the lines of ‘it evolved because evolution is true’
just like ‘natural selection’ a tautology.
why don’t you go ahead and take a bacteria, and evolve it into a multi-cellular animal…should be easy!!
you can even name it!
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Sexual reproduction probably occurred for a long time among microscopic organisms before separate genders evolved that were optimized for each role. Many plants today reproduce sexually without a clear gender distinction.
dedalus on February 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
That’s how the racist little creep operates. It’s like telling the energizer bunny to consider not beating that stupid f’ing drum for a minute.
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
You’ve just discovered perpetual motion
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
good point!
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
LOL You’re on a roll amigo :)
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM
its rather obvious.
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Speciation & natural selection evidence appears in more places than just ‘islands’, like Darwin’s.
Micro may not always = macro, but chaos theory does show a lot of correlations between the two. It is tantalizing, but not proven.
Darwin has no ‘alter’. ‘Evolution’ ‘believers’, supporters, whatever you’d like to call them differ in a lot of their conclusions.
It is helpful to note that ‘evolution’ ‘believers’ do recognize evidence of natural selection.
Macro very often in nature does = micro & vice versa.
Sometimes science can be very simple, like you like to make allusions to.
But often, it is not so simplistic. Simplifying some stuff is actually very much like selective truth-telling. Parts are true, others are not. Parts are false, others are not.
This is what I see with ID (aka Creationists).
You must embrace the whole truth, no matter where it leads you.
Do not mistake that for blind acceptance & atheism.
That is not what it is.
I stand amazed at the passionate rhetoric here.
I feel the depths of the dark ages approaching.
LimeyGeek, save me!
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM
It’s a flawed analogy because, as has been pointed out to you (and duly ignored), cars don’t self-replicate. Evolution is descent with modification. From an evolutionary standpoint, you car, though very complex, fails in the most fundamental way possible. It doesn’t reproduce.
RightOFLeft on February 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM
yeah I know…it evolved because evolution is true!!
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Anyone who has seen “Expelled” is perfectly aware that Stein just became another victim of the same censorship he shows, but the mainstream scientific crowd claims doesn’t exist.
Also, anyone who has seen “Expelled” knows it’s a series of interviews with various scientists and academics, Stein never expresses a view either way except to say that the piling onto anyone who simply wants to investigate ID is ascientific by definition.
PJ Emeritus on February 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Anything’s possible.
You got yourself there. I’d advise running away, but I know I rarely do.
Esthier on February 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Hop aboard….I know a private island where the adults can discuss God & science in tranquility.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM
As I said before, I use the term goddess sarcastically. I’m very human, very flawed.
Hi, I’m good, how are you? How did I get here? I don’t remember, I was a wee babe at the time. How did we all get here? Don’t really care, because I have meals to cook and laundry to clean, and children to raise and a husband to look after. If by chance I have a minute to meditate, I think about how I’m but a part of something greater than myself, something I do not assign devine value to. Evolution makes sense to me, but really, I don’t dwell on the beginnings of life on a daily basis. If I’m wrong, then I guess God will punish me as He sees fit. I wouldn’t do a single thing different tomorrow if God revealed Himself to me today… except maybe I’d vacuum before the boys nap rather than after.
So, what’s new with you?
: )
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM
BTW IDers (Creationists), Christians, scientists:
We live by example. How better to bring those into the fold than by logically arguing about concepts & conceding points in common?
How better to bring God into the lives of others than by being passionate, and yet reasonable?
Hmmmm?
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM
it doesn’t happen…see the tuatara, and the fossil record.
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Fire and Brimstone vs. Sneering Intellectual Superiority
*gong* MORTAL KOMBAT!
Round 1 – FIGHT!
DoDooododododododo
Test your might!
TheUnrepentantGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM
I am sold! We may not all agree. But I at least hope to do it civilly.
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM
You just told me I lack intelligence. Obviously, it’s not very obvious. Please elaborate, using the smallest words possible. Thank you.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM
And the moderator is a mister Moreau…
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Although I wish they did, just to see the look on the UAW’s face.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Wait for skynet to go active.
I wonder why we don’t do the same, especially considering there are several groups of people who try helplessly to do so anyway.
When he gets going, it’s pleasant to watch.
Esthier on February 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Is it a three hour tour? Who’s the Skipper?
TheUnrepentantGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Oh well, he called me a lying liar. I’m not sure that you are going to get what you requested though, it’s asking a lot.
Ann NY on February 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I think I like you again, now that you’re not being creepy.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Heh.
If only, Limey. I love talking about these things, especially disagreeing, but the crap that gets flung here far too often is just distasteful.
Esthier on February 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM
I may even give a prayer of thanks for my comfy hammock and a sandy beach
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM
You always seemed to enjoy joining in more than watching. More fun with two.
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM
I hear “I missed you, big daddy! Jump me like a high hurdle!”
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
He’s always been like that. It’s okay. I’m here insteading of dusting, so I’m sure if and when I get an answer, it’ll be more entertaining than my dustrag.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Stay as long as you like…..Elvis is in charge
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Why would an audience filled with scientists and science majors want to be addressed by a guy who believes “science leads you to killing people”?
That’s because science-only societies have killed — Hitler’s Germany was the most scientific-based in all of history, and Hitler applied Darwinism in a multitude of ways to justify his views. Today’s debate on embryonic stem cell research is a case in point — who’s on the side of banning such research? Who’s on the side of promoting it? Case closed.
Don’t forget folks that Darwin himself held racist and sexist views — his theory made it possible for such views to have scientific weight.
Creationist scientists, such as Newton, Copernicus, Galileo, and Mendel were all progenitors of their scientific fields, and all were devout believers. Bacon, the originator of the scientific method, was avowedly Christian and encouraged Bible and nature study to coexist side by side.
The peer-reviewed argument on this thread is just a smoke-screen. While they do promote good work and the merits of practical science, they amount to a concerted lobby that allows Darwinian assumptions to proliferate; they are not interested in any other views, i.e., the design features that help to explain the various ways that an eye functions, helping to promote other ways of dealing with disease or dysfunction.
This is Stein’s point — why stifle other operational approaches to science when they could yield positive results?
Richard Romano on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
It amazes me how historians and academics were comfortable with the notion that darwinism was one of the inspirations for the holocaust (especially when combined with classic Jew-hatred). That is until they noticed that the folks who are arguing against darwinism were mentioning the link…
Then it was all, “How dare they! Darwinism has nothing to do with the attempted genocide!”
Johnny 100 Pesos on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I got my boys off the couch and behind the vacuum!
I believe it was only because of divine intervention from God!
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I love you! Let’s run away together!
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM
One last word – why would we attempt to refute the HERV-K retrovirus research when it’s just more proof of evolution? A quote from one of Barbulescu’s papers:
Endogenous retroviruses contribute to the evolution of the host genome and can be associated with disease. Human endogenous retrovirus K (HERV-K) is related to the mouse mammary tumor virus and is present in the genomes of humans, apes and cercopithecoids (Old World monkeys). It is unknown how long ago in primate evolution the full-length HERV-K proviruses that are in the human genome today were formed.
Results: Ten full-length HERV-K proviruses were cloned from the human genome. Using provirus-specific probes, eight of the ten were found to be present in a genetically diverse set of humans but not in other extant hominoids. Intact preintegration sites for each of these eight proviruses were present in the apes. A ninth provirus was detected in the human, chimpanzee, bonobo and gorilla genomes, but not in the orang-utan genome. The tenth was found only in humans, chimpanzees and bonobos. Complete sequencing of six of the human-specific proviruses showed that full-length open reading frames for the retroviral protein precursors Gag–Pro–Pol or Env were each present in multiple proviruses.
Conclusions: At least eight full-length HERV-K genomes that are in the human germline today integrated after humans diverged from chimpanzees. All of the viral open reading frames and cis-acting sequences necessary for HERV-K replication must have been intact during the recent time when these proviruses formed. Multiple full-length open reading frames for all HERV-K proteins are present in the human genome today.
Tark on February 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM
New Island Rule : Tasty crap only.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM
My mother used a stick
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM
I hear “I’m calling the police, then moving as far away from you as possible.”
Hey, dammit! You figured it out!
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Yes, and he’s called me a whore. The man seems to have a problem with women.
Esthier on February 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM
You know, I say this with a little humor and a little seriousness… if one day my daughter did her chores without one ounce of complaint or bribery, I’d have to seriously consider the possibility of divine intervention. If it happened for a week, He’d probably have me hooked.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Now I have to wipe coffee off of my monitor. You magnificent…
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Wouldn’t that be the best audience for this message?
Johnny 100 Pesos on February 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM
A tough call.
And, it’s not a ‘tough call’; the guy is giving a commencement speech, not trying to sell his DVD.
The suspicion behind AP’s statement is plain, aren’t we supposed to give people a chance and then pass judgment?
Na, not in the neo-Darwinist’s world.
Richard Romano on February 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I have already stated that creationism supports micro evolution…what points are you talking about?
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
I’m not the brightest bulb on the Holiday Tree you know.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
White women, remember?
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
you’re a liar. post your proof or apologize. but you won’t…you’re a piece of work.
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Dude- I take this to mean that you imply we should not question, dissect, analyze, or investigate anything that may bring about human interpretation that is against God & Christianity.
I don’t CARE what Darwin’s AGENDA was-I CARE about the DATA he presented.
I can ARGUE about the CONCLUSIONS he arrived at & have my own take on it. But it’s STILL SPECULATION.
Scienctific knowledge in itself is NOT EVIL. But it can be used for that. And so do we say we cannot investigate certain things bcs it may lead to EVIL?
Bah. That’s just crazy talk.
As far as the tuatara-I will look it up later. This little piece of evidence you are crowing about does not change ANYTHING I said.
But from the little I know of the tuatara, molecular DNA evolution is evidently thought to be independent of phenotypic evolution.
Evolution of DNA is new. So I expect lots of info to come out on this subject. As it is analyzed & digested, perhaps we will confirm a broader understanding of ALL evolutionary aspects of organisms.
Natural selection is only one mechanism of evolutionary change. I am sure there are many others, including GOD.
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
To get back on-topic….I think I agree with Stein that the response was “chicken shit”.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Really. Better keep them in the clean room where they can’t smell, see, hear or taste the glorious creation of God.
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Thought corrected.
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:47 PM
+1
kirkill on February 4, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Maybe if we stick you on a non-PC tree you’ll light up properly.
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Would that mean then a creationist is hypocritical and immoral using modern medicine since the foundation of modern medicine is evolution? Isn’t that just funding nazis?
Ann NY on February 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM
White sugar, brown sugar….it all sweetens the pie.
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Hurrah.
They should have had him speak. He’s an entertaining & smart guy.
As long as he doesn’t keep saying
“Beuhler. Beuhler.”
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Yeah, I agree with that too. I don’t agree with some of Stein’s beliefs, but I’d never turn down a chance to hear him talk.
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:49 PM
nice distraction, but it doesn’t really address the issue…
right4life on February 4, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Man discovered most of these things after the modern Scientific Method was discovered, which was done so by a Christian after the Reformation using Biblical Pressupositons about the Universe. Mainly that there was a Sovereign Creator God, who controlled the Universe and made Science possible(with these laws for example). Things that we know exist, yet can’t see, touch or feel them.
Atheism/materialism has the complete opposite foundational beleif, with Chance/Randomness at the center of it. Under this view, you can not rationally expect the Sun to continue to Rise in the East for Example. The Laws of Science, Math, Logic, etc. should also be constantly Evolving and Changing. Instead they are Fixed, Universal and Immaterial.
jp on February 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Ahhh… And there we have the circular logic.
It’s an ugly thing to practice, no matter if you’re an atheist or a creationist or even something in between.
Badger40 on February 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM
This is looking like a flame-bait thread may end on a nice note….I’m crossing my fingers!
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM
She was thinking of apacalyps. Hard to tell you and your other twisted, insulting, fundamentalist, loony brethren apart.
MadisonConservative on February 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM
I totally read that sentence wrong. I think a good whap upside the head might do me some good. Or maybe all the dust I’m not dusting is clogging my brain (and my eyesight).
Anna on February 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM
We’ve had some back and forth, you and I, and I’ve never gotten the whore vibe from you. Am I missing something? ;-)
Ann NY on February 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM
I wouldn’t pay him if he didn’t say it once ;)
LimeyGeek on February 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM
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