Ben Stein withdraws as UVM commencement speaker after outcry over intelligent design
posted at 8:54 pm on February 3, 2009 by Allahpundit
Ben Stein described the brouhaha over his selection as commencement speaker at the University of Vermont as “laughable” on Tuesday called the whole episode “pathetic.”…
“I am far more pro-science than the Darwinists,” Stein said later in an e-mail. “I want all scientific inquiry to happen — not just what the ruling clique calls science.”
Stein’s comments came a day after UVM President Dan Fogel announced that Stein, whom Fogel had invited to address UVM’s commencement in May, would not be coming after all. Fogel said that his selection of Stein generated an intense protest, that he received hundreds of angry e-mails over the weekend, and that after he shared these “profound concerns” with Stein, Stein “immediately and most graciously declined our commencement invitation.”…
Stein called the university’s response to the furor “chicken sh**, and you can quote me on that.”
“I like Dr. Fogel,” Stein wrote, “and feel sorry he is caught in the meat grinder of political correctness. My heart goes out to him. He’s a great guy trying to do his best in difficult circumstances.”
I don’t care that he’s a creationist any more than I’d care if he were a phrenologist. It’s goofy, but so long as he doesn’t turn the speech into a lecture on the subject, I’m willing to tolerate his eccentricity. What I wouldn’t tolerate is his egregious bad-faith attempt to equate Darwinism with social Darwinism. Why would an audience filled with scientists and science majors want to be addressed by a guy who believes “science leads you to killing people”? Better yet, why would that guy want to address them? It’d be like inviting a liberal who believes conservatism is inherently racist to guest-blog on Hot Air. I get enough flak for linking HuffPo occasionally in Headlines that I can imagine how that’d go down with our readers.
Exit question: Can it really be that we’re creeping up on 9 p.m. on the east coast without a post yet on this from LGF?
Blowback
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I’m gonna call 375 posts on this one.
fiatboomer on February 3, 2009 at 8:59 PM
Allahpundit,
I.T. isn’t necessarily goofy, but Atheism is as goofy as those in organized religion that claim to know what they can’t.
Agnostics > atheists.
toliver on February 3, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Alas poor LGF, I knew it well.
Lucky if I stop by once a week ever since he went to all Darwin, all the time.
IrishEi on February 3, 2009 at 9:00 PM
I love the free exchange of ideas in a country where liberals run things and value them too.
hawkdriver on February 3, 2009 at 9:01 PM
It’s Vermont. A complete cluster of a state.
ex-Democrat on February 3, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I saw we clone Jesus and Darwin, put them in a boxing ring together, and settle this issue once and for all.
justfinethanks on February 3, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Hey AP go read a new book called “Liberal Fascism”. You can get the eugenics story there.
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Insert “Fred!” references where AP goes to “Ben.”
AP, unfolded.
Lotsa comments, guaranteed.
Maybe someday you’ll meet the perfect person, AP. The one that doesn’t annoy, that backs up all your beliefs, that offers no dissent.
Maybe.
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Guess I’m done reading stuff on Hotair. Laters.
scrubbiedude on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Oh boy,in this climate of Liberalism,
it seems,everthing is becoming,
hyper-sensitive!
canopfor on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
LGF? They still around?
R D on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
It’s Vermont, maybe Dawn M. Nothwehr would be more their style. Got the whole Ben & JErry vibe goin’.
abobo on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
+ about a zillion.
Charles needs meds.
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
I’m fine with dissent, just not fine with being called a Nazi for believing men evolved from apes.
Allahpundit on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Okay, bye.
Allahpundit on February 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM
SSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,but,isn’t Ben Stein,
on the right!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on February 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM
How is their secession movement these days?
artist on February 3, 2009 at 9:06 PM
I’ve never called you a Nazi, and never will. If you want to believe that, I still respect you.
I guess it’s all in the presentation. Style points and all that. No?
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:07 PM
But , if Darwin “crucifies” Jesus, who won the argument..
the_nile on February 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Make no mistake about it timmy, if an ape had the chance he’d eat you and everyone you love.
/Troy McClure
abobo on February 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM
I didn’t mean you, I meant Stein accusing scientists essentially of espousing mass murder.
Allahpundit on February 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Admitting it’s a belief is a good first step.
Stephen M on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM
for believing men evolved from apes.
Allahpundit on February 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Believing or knowing?
artist on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM
So Noneya is getting a HA byline?
malclave on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Remember. When it comes to the Theory of Evolution, “might be”, “possibly”, “may be possible”, and other such phrases = proof.
DethMetalCookieMonst on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM
How about handing the address over to an astrologer?
Universities should not stand for particular political ideologies, but they should stand for scientific rigor. What Stein has decided to represent stands at right angles to that.
Byron on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Stein: “Hey, you Nazis, it is OK if I talk at your school? Your school president said it was cool.”
UVM Scientists: “What?”
Stein: “I’m going to give the commencement speech at your school, you Nazi.”
UVM Scientists: “I really don’t think I would like someone who calls me a Nazi speaking at my school.”
Stein: “If you’re going to be a Nazi about it, I’ll withdraw, you Nazi.”
justfinethanks on February 3, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Guess we’ll never know what ol’ Ben had to say.
It kinda sucks, in a sucky kinda way. Hoots!
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:11 PM
I know Mr Stein is not a Christian. Apparently he does not have any religious motivation to embrace creation science.
jgapinoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Even if you toss out his creationist nonsense, you could look at pretty much anything he has said about the economy in the past three years and find tons of hilarity.
In a fair world, he would get laughed out of most rooms due to a total lack of credibility, not just commencement addresses.
e-pirate on February 3, 2009 at 9:11 PM
AlGore and his merry band of bros are doing what exactly?
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I don’t know Stein’s views on this, but all systems with limited resources, some measureable competition for those resources, and traits passed down is a system that operates according to evolutionary pressures.
I think you ought to look at Wallace, instead of Darwin.
That said, I am a steadfast evolutionist and wouldn’t care if Ben Stein were giving the commencement. Now, Stein’s moronic view that the rich need to be ultra-taxed (though he hasn’t voluntarily given what he claimed was his share) gives me great pause, but again, who cares about a commencement speech?
On a side note, I never bothered attending commencements, for myself or anyone else.
progressoverpeace on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
So he believes intelligent design because it’s intelligent.
jgapinoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
If man could be crossed with the Ape it would improve man but deteriorate the Ape.
Cheshire Cat on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Please go rent his movie “Expelled.” It’s funny ’cause it’s Ben Stein but it’s also chilling as he chronicles the natural and political consequences of Darwinism. I bought it and have shared it with my fellow teachers at my middle school. I’ve also shown it to the students in the Bible Club (yes, we’re a public school that has a Bible Club) and they loved it.
No, politics leads you to killing people. Ask any Democrat about the killing fields known as abortuaries.
Mojave Mark on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I dunno; I don’t see, in context, him saying you’re a Nazi if you believe in Darwin, but I don’t see a problem with suggesting that Darwinian logic as typically expressed can help folks of a mind for eugenics and ethnic cleansing down a certain path, so to speak. So too, can religion – that doesn’t mean I’m suggesting that religious people are Nazi’s – see the difference? I don’t think Stein’s words were chosen well, and I don’t think (to paraphrase the ADL) that Hitler need Darwin to commit the Holocaust – Darwinian thought certainly wouldn’t *prevent* anyone with a notion towards a Holocaust though; if it factored in at all, it would be towards helping that person rationalize their anti-social behavior. I think that’s what Stein’s trying to get at, maybe.
Midas on February 3, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Libtards never cease to prove us right about them. Every time.
SouthernGent on February 3, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Yeah, ditto that.
And of course…there most certainly IS intelligent design, and evolution is a part of that.
Science hasn’t explained the “why” of it all.
JetBoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:13 PM
And Rachel Carson?
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Whatever happened to the term ‘academic freedom’ as it pertained to colleges?
One thing about Marxist professors: they know what they are doing–the kids lap up what they say hook, line and sinker.
Unfortunately the GOP allowed this to happen by assuming this was a passing phenomenon. It isn’t.
technopeasant on February 3, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Isn’t Ben Stein the finance guy/ Hollywood guy? I can’t figure him out. He seems like a typical E. Coast or LA jewish guy. What the hell is he doing believing in God anyway?
JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Geez, this is such a tempest in a teapot. Guess who gave the speech at my high school graduation?
NEIL F**KING BUSH!
Why am I NOT in handcuffs right now?
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM
It’s also available to “view it now” on Netflix, if you’re a customer of theirs.
Midas on February 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM
thritto.
JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM
He’s Jewish, you know, the old testament? Unless I’m mistaken, thats the part of the bible that deals with creation.
Ann NY on February 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM
“fiatboomer on February 3, 2009 at 8:59 PM”
dude — take “over!”
:-)
Buckaroo on February 3, 2009 at 9:15 PM
In a fair world, he would get laughed out of most rooms due to a total lack of credibility, not just commencement addresses.
e-pirate on February 3, 2009
Speaking of hilarity, I enjoy reading an Obama supporter lecturing people about what would be in a “fair world”.
For starters, Obama wouldn’t be anywhere near the WH.
Keep the laughs coming.
artist on February 3, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Completely analogous to the “guns should be outlawed because they kill people” argument. If Stein actually believed that, he’d be a doofus. I don’t think THAT is what he is arguing at all. At worst, he is arguing that “scientists are capable of leading people to kill other people”. That would pretty much make scientists no different from anyone else.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on February 3, 2009 at 9:16 PM
If you think I.T. is a completely rediculous theory, then you must think that computer programmers don’t exist.
After all, they create using 1s and 0s (protons and electrons), the things they create in the program are made up of the same very basic element (1s and 0s) but form bytes and words to create very different things (just like protons and electrons are in atoms that then combined create different elements and so on and so forth). The characters in games that are programed can’t see their creator but can “see” in one way or another each other in the “game” environment (just like we can see each other but not our creator).
DethMetalCookieMonst on February 3, 2009 at 9:16 PM
If ID isn’t a purely religious concept, why is it that only religious people subscribe to it? Because so many of them feel they need it to be true to jibe with their FAITH, which of course as nothing to do with scientific evidence of any sort.
I’d be happy to treat ID as a scientific theory if that’s what it was, but since it’s just a scam developed by creationists (a particular brand of Biblical literalist Christians to be exact) I have no interest.
As for the validity of evolution of the species, it remains the best theory available, and continues to be refined and improved as more evidence is uncovered.
peski on February 3, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I don’t get how darwinists are off the hook for eugenics when the Catholic Church is on the hook for the sex scandals.
Atheists want to have it both ways.
Sad.
jeff_from_mpls on February 3, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I got banned from the site because I started to give thumbs down to the amount of articles he the subject he was doing. I never made one negative comment, just a bunch of negative ratings on his post and the account got blocked.
JeffinSac on February 3, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Actually, they seem to control the frey from the tower.
JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:17 PM
on topic — suppose for a moment, say, ayers, was the planned speaker — we’d be up in arms about that as bad or worse than the green mtn. staters are for this — so if i were the uni. prez i’d go and find someone so frakking boring it’ll make everyone regret it …
/carville, colmes, or olby available by chance?
Buckaroo on February 3, 2009 at 9:17 PM
But of course the Ayers address at St. Mary’s goes ahead as planned even though alumni are pulling their funding. Political correctness no matter the cost.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/29/MN3T15IQ3I.DTL&type=politics
davo on February 3, 2009 at 9:18 PM
I think it’s all a lesson in the evils of totalitarianism.
JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Maybe his eyes are really red and the Dean thought it might scare the students.
Bishop on February 3, 2009 at 9:19 PM
I’ll be sure to watch you be mad at prominent atheists who say christians are murderers.
However, I really do understand why that would tick you off. I think Stein used the wrong choice of words.
DethMetalCookieMonst on February 3, 2009 at 9:19 PM
I’m Catholic. But my belief in ID isn’t simply religion-based. This is an argument I’ve tried to make on previous posts on this subject. ID can, and should, be taught in tandem with evolution. And religion CAN be left out of the argument.
JetBoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:19 PM
I am not surprised at all
Liberals SCREAM
you must be tolerant
dissent is patriotic
Destruction of symbols is free speech
UNTIL..
UNTIL….
its their favorite pet project or beliefs then all of a sudden the CRIES of Outrage from the Liberals Fly all the way up to the heavens..
For a sample of the liberal hypocrisy
Just look at how they espoused free speech for
burning the usa flag
a crucifix in a jar of urine
mary mother of jesus in cow dung..
BUT What happened to ALL of these BRAVE LIBERALS
when the mohammed cartoons came out..
WHY EVERY
Liberal
media personality
news anchor
reporter
Legal types
RAN under their DESKS in their offices
shaking because …
because they knew..
that the muslims were going to chop their heads off..
Ohh the irony is so rich here..
Liberals cant stand anyone denying the false ideaology of evolution ….
And you can prove this scientifically i might add..
and liberals will sue , threaten and intimidate anyone
who dares to question their stupid beliefs..
Unless the persons questioning them are ohh say
Muslims./…
then its how low can we kiss your nazi boots sir:
liberals hypocritical criminals
jcila on February 3, 2009 at 9:19 PM
You do realize that the theory of evolution has changed much in the last 150 years and is no longer referred to as Darwinism, right? Only creationist cling to the term Darwinism.
Ann NY on February 3, 2009 at 9:19 PM
“accusing scientists essentially of espousing mass murder.”
I hadn’t heard of this so tried to research what the brouhaha was about. It seems, from Wiki no less, he was trying to say that the survival of the fittest(bestest?) possibly lead to the “superman” race thinking and the Holocaust.
Would appreciate some links to other reading. TIA
Tom
IMHO creationism and ID are two different critters.
marinetbryant on February 3, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Perspective people. It’s Vermont. A university in Vermont. They actually have a religion school there.Look at the site.They practically apologize for it.
JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Quattro.
AP, surely you’re not denying that Darwin’s theories have been misappropriated to become religious bashing nonsense far beyond its scientific value… right?
Skywise on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Leaping lizards.
getalife on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
“JiangxiDad on February 3, 2009 at 9:20 PM”
they haven’t shut it down yet? slackers …
:-)
Buckaroo on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
And just how many other vocations has he selected for that “observation” of his? Just an approximate count will suffice.
Tav on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
I submit that evolution also caused mass murders
it is well known that during wwII
the nazis used genectic selection techniques in seperating
various african tribes for promotion of one race over another.
their teachings came directly from darwin..
and how many died because of this vile crap
Ohh the tutsis and hutus come to mind..
800,000 in 30 days..
So far darwinism has a great record
for helping kill people..
jcila on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
“Skywise on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM”
don’t call a.p. shirley …
/had to be said
Buckaroo on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Most people attribute Darwin with coining the term social Darwinism. It was actually Herbert Spencer who coined the phrase and came up with the idea of human beings being competitive with only the strongest surviving- ‘survival of the fittest’.
technopeasant on February 3, 2009 at 9:22 PM
No kidding.. they’ll call you a religious nutcase for believing in Creationism, then turn around and, with a straight face, tell you that life spontaneously generated from rocks.
Skywise on February 3, 2009 at 9:23 PM
protons don’t move and therefore don’t create electric current, you dumb crap. 1 and 0 are both made by electrons.
Xolom on February 3, 2009 at 9:23 PM
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Who said anything at all about Al Gore? What’s with people here and the compulsive non sequitur peddling?
Just stop it already!
DaveS on February 3, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Stein is Jewish.
—————–
“Why would an audience filled with scientists and science majors want to be addressed by a guy who believes “science leads you to killing people”?”
Since the link from Derb’s post leads you to a site that no longer holds the interview, I cannot be sure, but I strongly suspect the Stein doesn’t think that “science” leads you to killing people, merely that some “science” can lead you to killing people. I think this is a perfectly defensible statement. Witness the Green call for population control.
I like Stein, on both econ and theology. Deal with it.
VolMagic on February 3, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Yea it is called the “make shit up” theory.
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Picked the wrong thread to stop sniffing glue…
Skywise on February 3, 2009 at 9:24 PM
The only place where ID and evolution should be tought together is in a church or a philosophy class – those deep “why are we here” questions that people seem to need an answer to, even if it’s just a guess.
Evolution as science is about the nuts an bolts of how natural selection drives change in species over thousands of generations, nothing more and nothing less.
peski on February 3, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Compared to who exactly?
Itchee Dryback on February 3, 2009 at 9:25 PM
jcila on February 3, 2009 at 9:21 PM
And people don’t kill people, gun do, blah blah blah
DaveS on February 3, 2009 at 9:25 PM
AlGore is a luddite trying to kill the west and the rest for a few pounds of “carbon credits”.
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:26 PM
atheists are such wimps.
Ampersand on February 3, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Yes, based on observation and empirical evidence, unlike creationism.
Ann NY on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Not rocks. Crystals, silly. Or it was brought to us by aliens. Aliens would grew from
rockscrystals.:)
VolMagic on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM
What leftist bullshit.
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM
I’m referring to 1s and 0s as far as bits go. 1 (on) and 0 (off) is like protons (+) and electrons (-). Oh, and without protons, the electrons would have no where to go. You can’t fill a hole if no holes exist.
DethMetalCookieMonst on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Remember. When it comes to Creation, “It’s in the Bible,” = proof.
Pelayo on February 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM
But if they so impossibly cant see “the creator” , how do we no there is one or many at all, if he talked to “jesus” why not talk to everyone, small feature if you created universe.
I mean , why run a pedophile ring centered in Italy to spread you good word.
the_nile on February 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Obviously Stein was not fully articulating his belief in the second quote. He believes that science can lead you to kill.
jgapinoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM
The people Stein compared to the Nazis are those who sought to suppress dissent and control the beliefs of others. Not everyone who believes in Darwinism tries to force others to believe in Darwinism, and Stein never said that they did. Stein’s point was that those who seek to control our beliefs should be feared, and he was warning people that this was one area where some people were trying to do just that (which he proved). That’s the comparison to Nazism, and it is dishonest to claim that Stein was saying all Darwinists are Nazis.
JohnJ on February 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Uhm… people were killing each other off in impressive numbers long before Darwin existed…
elgeneralisimo on February 3, 2009 at 9:29 PM
True, but easily equaled by the atheist bashing nonsense by believers far beyond it’s theraputic value.
peski on February 3, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Its goofy to say that all the design in the universe would suggest there was some intelligence behind it? Thats ludicrous and dishonest. I understand that some people believe differently but making such ridiculous and unreasonable statements only shows you have an axe to grind. How can any reasonable person take you serious when you act like that? Oh wait, thats right, no reasonable person does take you serious when you act like that AP.
NeverLiberal on February 3, 2009 at 9:29 PM
But if they so impossibly cant see “the creator” , how do we know there is one or many at all, if he talked to “jesus” why not talk to everyone, small feature if you created universe.
I mean , why run a pedophile ring centered in Italy to spread your good word.
the_nile on February 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM
What observation do you have 65,000,000 years ago. None. You have fragments that you cling to like Catholics going to Calvary.
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Yes, based on observation and empirical evidence, unlike creationism.
Ann NY on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Now all you need to do is explain where the first ever particle came from, the springboard upon which everything else in the universe was created.
Big Bang is a possibility, there was nothing and then there was everything. Ok then.
Bishop on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Evolutionary science is still merely a theory. Same can be said for Intelligent Design. I still believe both are intertwined…There’s no way anyone can say the universe and everything in it just, well, happened.
If ID is separated from Evo. Science, we may never know the truth.
JetBoy on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Perhaps some of us did come from apes and some of us were created by God?
This should end the debate.
I know where I come from?
katy on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
+1, more or less.
wccawa on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Stepping in as a literal creationist who firmly understands that when the Bible says it took six days, it means a literal six days, the Hebrew is quite clear on that issue.
Also, for all of you evolutionists, how exactly did matter create the information necessary for evolution to occur? Where did the information in DNA and RNA come from? Even Dawkins cannot cover that one. Matter cannot create information, there is no theory or law of science that can eexplain that little problem away for you.
Centurion68 on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
mred on February 3, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Let’s try this again… who said anything at all about Al Gore?
And, again… what’s with the compulsive non sequitur mongering?
DaveS on February 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM
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