Charming tale of octuplets turning less charming, more creepy by the minute; Update: Mom to talk to Oprah, seeks $2M from media spots

posted at 4:23 pm on January 31, 2009 by Allahpundit

In which a childless couple dreaming of a little one of their very own tries fertility treatments and hits the jackpot. Except (a) there’s no couple involved, (b) mom already had six kids, all by in vitro, not fertility drugs, and (c) her need for more children appears to be pathological. To the point where she had eight embryos implanted this time because, and I quote, she wanted “just one more girl.”

But other than that, it’s straight out of a storybook.

Angela Suleman said her daughter always had trouble conceiving and underwent in vitro fertilization treatments [in the past] because her fallopian tubes are “plugged up.”

There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn’t want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.

Nadya Suleman wanted to have children since she was a teenager, “but luckily she couldn’t,” her mother said.

“She doesn’t have any more (frozen embryos), so it’s over now,” she said. “It has to be.”…

“Instead of becoming a kindergarten teacher or something, she started having them, but not the normal way,” he mother said.

Her daughter’s obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house.

Nadya allegedly told a neighbor she was paid to have the IVF done but didn’t elaborate. Her college major, incidentally? “Child and adolescent development.” Exit question one: Time for DSS to step in here? Exit question two: Time for a certain as-yet-unnamed in-vitro specialist to lose his medical license for agreeing to implant eight embryos into a woman with six kids? (Assuming he has one, that is. There’s no “back-alley IVF” industry, is there?) The LA Times has answers to both: “The California Medical Board, which investigates doctors, and the California Department of Public Health, which licenses clinics and hospitals, said no doctors or facilities are currently being investigated regarding the births. It is also unlikely that the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services would get involved unless it receives a complaint of child abuse or neglect.”

Update: We’re talking about welfare in the comments, but another possibility presents itself. Did she do it to get rich?

THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.

Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert, since it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.

Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week – media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.

A spokesman for a fertility clinic in Georgia interviewed for the piece claims they’d draw scrutiny from the industry watchdog if they implanted more than two or three embryos into a patient at a time.


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THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.

Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert, since it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.

Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week – media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.

This triggered the mind, also from the LA radio reporter, to add to Entelechy on January 31, 2009 at 4:54 PM

- the mother was a certified “psychology technician” whatever that is, and let her license expire about 3 years ago.

Entelechy on January 31, 2009 at 5:30 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 5:29 PM

I believe the good professor was making the point that there is usually some distance between two extremes on an issue. You obviously do not agree.

a capella on January 31, 2009 at 5:33 PM

1. She’s unstable, and the parents are, too. They mortgaged the house, father is going back to Iraq to help pay for this.

2. She likely is a SURROGATE who went out of the US, Mexico or South America, and had these embryos transplanted. She is being paid by a few couples likely.

3. She might be collecting financial aid.

4. She already has six children. Will she collect welfare? Is she planning to sell the children on the black market?

Something is just off here. Very, very off.

chunderroad on January 31, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Well, as the sociologist you must be, I bet you could derive some equation for the proper family size, and then you could make it a law that people can’t have more than that and, oh wait, that’s China.

Never mind.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 5:22 PM

Government mandates are something you introduced, not me. I’m not a sociologist but base my opinion on first and second hand experience with the time and financial cost of each child in a two-parent family. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d bet she can’t do a good job unless a lot of help is on the way from family, the government or sponsors.

dedalus on January 31, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Evidently there’s no “childless couple” here. The woman is not married and there is no mention of a boyfriend. One article in the post said her father is working in Iraq to support the family.

I pity the children.

For all of the degrees she has or is working on, she obviously has skipped all the studies done about the importance of fathers to a child.

INC on January 31, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Exit question two: Time for a certain as-yet-unnamed in-vitro specialist to lose his medical license for agreeing to implant eight embryos into a woman with six kids?

I would say yes. This appears to be totally irresponsible.

INC on January 31, 2009 at 5:34 PM

Anyone else have a sense that we are seeing a Susan Smith in the making?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM

I don’t know your mom, but if you are worried you should try to avoid taking car trips with her.

The Race Card on January 31, 2009 at 5:35 PM

All because some genius said there shouldn’t be too many sparrows.

Eight sparrows in one egg is too much. You don’t have to be a genius to know that. There isn’t enough room to grow so the egg hatches early. The birds lungs are not fully developed and they end up with all sorts of respiratory illnesses. The arteries in their brain are too fragile and tend to rupture causing strokes. The baby birds have difficulty learning how to fly. The bill for the nest is millions of dollars and mama ain’t paying for it — the taxpayers are, who are already paying her welfare and medical care for her and her six kids. Now she has 14. Great.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 5:35 PM

We’re talking about welfare in the comments, but another possibility presents itself. Did she do it to get rich?

I wish I would have thought of it first.

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 5:25 PM

It’s possible. Apparently TLC just bought the Jon and Kate Plus 8 parents a $1.3 million house in exchange for a 2 year contract.

ExcessivelyDiverted on January 31, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d bet she can’t do a good job unless a lot of help is on the way from family, the government or sponsors.

dedalus on January 31, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Those kids are going to need round the clock feedings every 2-3 hours. Then she has six other kids to care for. Usually, neighbors and local churches will volunteer. I wouldn’t though.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 5:39 PM

Exit question two: Time for a certain as-yet-unnamed in-vitro specialist to lose his medical license for agreeing to implant eight embryos into a woman with six kids?

I would say yes. This appears to be totally irresponsible.

INC on January 31, 2009 at 5:34 PM

I might be wrong about this but isn’t it an accepted practice in in-vitro procedures to implant more than the number to actually be born. Then at some point the doctor recommends “reductions.”

What if the woman refuses the reductions? The doctor cannot force the reductions, so aren’t we getting a little ahead of ourselves in condemning the doctor?

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 5:41 PM

…No ethical doctor would have implanted more than 4 embryos in her, tops. Was this done in Mexico?

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 4:43 PM

It’s a possiblity being explored, that it was done there, but that she came here, intentionally, to have the kids in Calif. Her mother is apparently Mexican, again from radio accounts.

There’s no word on if the ‘specialist’ who injected her is licensed, domestic, foreign, in Mexico, etc. It’ll all come to light. The more she hides, the more they’ll hunt for the details.

Entelechy on January 31, 2009 at 5:42 PM

This has gotten pretty bizarre already with plenty of unaswered questions left over. Which of course means it will get lots of publicity which means it will definitely end up on television which means *CHA-CHING* pay-day for the lady that had the litter.

FlatFoot on January 31, 2009 at 5:43 PM

Anyone else wonder who covered the medical bill for the months she was in the hospital? And who will cover the costs of 8 babies in NICU care? If she isn’t employed I doubt she has insurance and at 30+ she isn’t going to be covered by any policy of her parents.

Most likely the state of CA or the hosptal itself is covering that cost. Now CA is begging for a bailout from the federal government and says it is going to give vouchers to taxpayers ILO tax refunds. If the hospital is eating the cost everyone else will be absorbing the cosst in their bills. So yes, the taxpayer is already funding this stupidity.

katiejane on January 31, 2009 at 5:45 PM

1. Is Suleman an Arabic name? Might part of her baby pathology be religion-inspired?

2. Additional details at momlogic.com indicate that the parental units of baby mamma have already declared bankruptcy once trying to support her.

3. Mother of baby mamma sought the help of a shrink to deal with her daughter, and was told to “kick her out”. Mother didn’t do that, and now gets to babysit 14 kids, insead of only 6.

4. Father of baby mamma is said to have been working in Iraq, either as a “truck driver or a translator”. A “translator”??? He speaks Arabic???

5. One of the earlier chldren is autisic? How much is *that* costing the taxpayer to provide special care?

6. The three doctor types who announced the birth on the TV news were all brown. I had thought they were Indian without paying any attention; now I’m wondering if they’re Middle East, as in Egyptian, Lebanese, etc.

Muslims have been tellng us right along that they would bury us with their birthrate. I wonder if this whackadoodle female is a giant step forward in that plan to overwhelm American society.

NahnCee on January 31, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Maxx,

I don’t know much about IVF practices, but MB4 said:

This is one sick woman. Babies are to her what shoes were to Imelda Markos. No ethical doctor would have implanted more than 4 embryos in her, tops. Was this done in Mexico?

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 4:43 PM

Considering there is no father in the home and no source of income other than the woman’s father, it’s hard to believe the doc would do this.

INC on January 31, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Those kids are going to need round the clock feedings every 2-3 hours. Then she has six other kids to care for. Usually, neighbors and local churches will volunteer. I wouldn’t though.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 5:39 PM

While I understand your sentiment, I think you’re helping to explain why Socialism took America away from us despite all the lessons of 20th Century Europe.

The root cause of Socialism is hopelessness, believing that since crazy mothers are out there having kids, and nobody can pay for it… then what the hell. We’re too tired to solve these problems at the one-to-one level. In churches. In families. We’re just tired of it. Let ‘em all go to hell.

But this is what the Bolsheviks were waiting for. They wanted our defenses to get so low it would be a snap. The giant government teats are coming out. You think you’re tired now? The American dream is done. Get used to %50,000 per year max. MAX.

It’s over, guys.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 5:50 PM

One local radio talker suggested Ms Suleiman wanted to create her own Madrassa….

MrScribbler on January 31, 2009 at 5:53 PM

Anyone else wonder who covered the medical bill for the months she was in the hospital? And who will cover the costs of 8 babies in NICU care? If she isn’t employed I doubt she has insurance and at 30+ she isn’t going to be covered by any policy of her parents.

katiejane on January 31, 2009 at 5:45 PM

NICU is expensive. One of my children spent 2 days in NICU and I think it was over $1,000 a day. Also, there were some 46 doctors and staff involved in the octuplet delivery. That must have been well north of $1,000,000, even if some doctors were donating their time.

dedalus on January 31, 2009 at 5:54 PM

The obvious issue here, which has not been mentioned, is that most doctors limit the embryos injected to two. The health complications involved here for her and the octoplets(?) is what makes this truly macabre. It becomes like Fear Factor or something… how much can her body take? How many of the babies will survive and be healthy? Doubtless they will spend a bit of time in ICU, because they’ll have a low birth weight.

I saw a picture of her stomach, and it’s sickening that she would do this to herself for publicity. Someone like this is in no mental state to raise children, and it is the public’s business. It would be their business if she kept slaves in her garage or pimped them out to a kiddie porn ring. There is something called Jizya, too, where Muslims believe welfare is laid out in the Koran, like an infidel tax we owe them for not killing us, kind of like reparations (God, that’s not PC!)

chunderroad on January 31, 2009 at 5:54 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Are you on psychotropic drugs? If not, you should be.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 5:56 PM

It looks like, because of the freak show of having a liter of 8, that media side shows will pay her a lot, which is likely what she intended, but what if 3 of the embryos had not “taken”, so that she had only had a litter of 5, so no freak show, then it would all be on the tax payers dime.

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 5:57 PM

The giant government teats are coming out. You think you’re tired now? The American dream is done. Get used to %50,000 per year max. MAX.

It’s over, guys.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Not because of “hopelessness”, but because of Utopian idealistic pap, fed to the ignorance of the masses, in order to exploit them, in a modern day serfdom. Those who fall for it deserve it.

p.s. it’s not so far off topic, as I thought.

Entelechy on January 31, 2009 at 6:00 PM

Another thing when you are carrying that many kids, you get bladder infections because you can’t fully empty your bladder. You get pneumonia because you can’t fully expand your lungs. You are nauseous all the time because the kids are pushing on your stomach. IOW, who was taking care of her other 6 kids who are her responsibility — not the Bolsheviks [/eyeroll]?

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 6:02 PM

Considering there is no father in the home and no source of income other than the woman’s father, it’s hard to believe the doc would do this.

INC on January 31, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Yeah, I don’t know either. But a doctors office is also a business and if the woman has the money to do it and the doctor is not violating any law by doing so…. I’m not really shocked by it.

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 6:03 PM

I might be wrong about this but isn’t it an accepted practice in in-vitro procedures to implant more than the number to actually be born. Then at some point the doctor recommends “reductions.”

I’ve never heard of 8 being implanted at one time. And if the mother opposes having some of the fetuses aborted, wouldn’t that be taken in consideration when deciding how many to implant? Unless you are selfish and nuts, that is…

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Like Deep Throat said in All the President’s Men: “Follow the money”.

Instead of artificial insemination, she would have been better off practicing deep…nevermind.

stonemeister on January 31, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Ha! Last week I called this woman an irresponsible freak and several posters took me to task for being, “uncaring”! Ha! This is going to run CA MILLIONS of dollars in medical bills- and all because some nutjob wanted a litter of babies. I certainly hope that whatever money she gets for her “story” goes right into the pocket of the taxpayers and all the children’s services that are going to have to bail her out. Unfortunately, the morons who watch Oprah and buy People magazine will slobber and drool to hear all about it.

anniekc on January 31, 2009 at 6:14 PM

Clown Car Vagina.

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM

It looks like, because of the freak show of having a liter of 8, that media side shows will pay her a lot, which is likely what she intended, but what if 3 of the embryos had not “taken”, so that she had only had a litter of 5, so no freak show, then it would all be on the tax payers dime.

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 5:57 PM

Why all the negativity? The end result of all of this could be that none of the kids got aborted (check), the woman gets all of her kids (check), and a couple of million bucks to take care of them (maybe), and we all get 14 more people to help us pay off the trillion dollar bail-out.

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 6:19 PM

These poor children.

Mason on January 31, 2009 at 6:23 PM

I certainly hope that whatever money she gets for her “story” goes right into the pocket of the taxpayers and all the children’s services that are going to have to bail her out.

I’m not sure if money she makes in the future can be applied to the past and present medical bills paid for by the state. Then again, I may be wrong.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 6:30 PM

First, I have no problem with married couples using fertility treatments to assist with pregnancy. However, I am completely opposed to clinics helping single women get pregnant. Kids are not a fashion accessory or a way to help you deal with a midlife crisis. Study after study has shown that kids do much better in life with two parents to raise them. Go to any prison and ask how many of the inmates had single mothers with no involvement from their fathers.

Second, these kids are already on the dole. The mother has no health insurance so all of the medical care is on the people of California. Apparently the average cost of a baby in the neonatal intensive care unit is $1,000 per day, per baby. In addition, the other six kids are receiving WIC according to their very frustrated grandmother.

There is a psychological disorder where some women are addicted to being pregnant. What is to stop her from getting pregnant again? She has filed bankruptcy and foreclosed on a house, her parents have had to foreclose on their house because they spent so much trying to help her, there is no father providing any type of support, and she won’t be able to afford childcare for 14 kids in order to work herself. These kids are all but guaranteed to be on welfare for years and there is no way to stop her from having more kids.

I have no problem with people like the Duggars in Arkansas having 18 or 50 kids since there are two parents and they are able to pay for them without public assistance. This is a completely different and irresponsible situation for which we will all have to pay for a long time.

ExcessivelyDiverted on January 31, 2009 at 5:29 PM

+1

funky chicken on January 31, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Why all the negativity? The end result of all of this could be that none of the kids got aborted (check), the woman gets all of her kids (check), and a couple of million bucks to take care of them (maybe), and we all get 14 more people to help us pay off the trillion dollar bail-out.

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 6:19 PM

I dunno. Guess I’ve always thought a traditional family unit was a building block of the country. Plus, I like kids and want them to have the best chance possible. I realize that divorce and tragedy sometimes affect that, but this monstrosity was planned. If it was done for money and career purposes, it becomes even worse.

a capella on January 31, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Kids are not a fashion accessory or a way to help you deal with a midlife crisis.

You wouldn’t know that looking at the covers of magazines at at the checkout stand. Every bimbo has a baby these days — and they are getting paid millions for photos.

the average cost of a baby in the neonatal intensive care unit is $1,000 per day, per baby

Probably more in California.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 6:49 PM

I’m glad the pathology of this woman is coming to light. Rather than lionize her, she should be derided.

keep the change on January 31, 2009 at 6:55 PM

I dunno. Guess I’ve always thought a traditional family unit was a building block of the country. Plus, I like kids and want them to have the best chance possible. I realize that divorce and tragedy sometimes affect that, but this monstrosity was planned. If it was done for money and career purposes, it becomes even worse.

a capella on January 31, 2009 at 6:38 PM

I agree on the traditional family. I don’t think in-vitro or adoption should be allow to single mothers or …. dare I say it …. to gays. But its a done deal now and there are no laws to prevent what she did, so isn’t all of that moot?

Since our society hasn’t seen fit to make such laws then she hasn’t broken any. I tend to think its all our fault anyway for allowing the government to take us down the socialist/collectivist path. If there was no welfare, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.

Maxx on January 31, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Ick! What I want to know is, are we going to have to pay for these children? Most preemies need an awful lot of medical attention. These babies will be in the hospital for quite a while and will no doubt need extensive and expensive visits for other problems that haunt premature children. Expensive glasses for their poor eyesight, etc. If she is using Medicaid, I’m gonna blow a gasket!

JAM on January 31, 2009 at 7:08 PM

Those kids are going to need round the clock feedings every 2-3 hours. Then she has six other kids to care for. Usually, neighbors and local churches will volunteer. I wouldn’t though.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 5:39 PM

I would, these are children we’re taking about here. You can’t deny them care because you don’t like how they came into the world.

right wing chicky on January 31, 2009 at 7:09 PM

I think I’ve got the moral climate of Hot Air down pat.

Let me see if I can fit in with my conservative bretheren.

Hey yo stupid ho ain’t got no right takin’ my cash money, hey biatch tie yer tubes ya ignorant biatch.

Nice.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 7:11 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Most of us don’t want to be subsidizing someone who can’t keep their damned legs shut – or that is psychotic enough to have eight embryos implanted in them, when they already have six other kids. What a crazy concept.

KSgop on January 31, 2009 at 7:28 PM

According to her mother, this woman conceived ALL FOURTEEN of her children through artificial methods. There is definitely an aberrational psychopathology here.

califcon on January 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM

Clown Car Vagina.

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM

I laughed. Then I started hearing calliope circus music in my head, and I laughed even harder.

The only response I can come up with is: did the doctor have to be really good at juggling or did he have a team of firemen there with that hand-held trampoline thing to catch the vaginal buckshot?

James on January 31, 2009 at 7:38 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 7:11 PM

It’s interesting that the side of the political aisle that seems to most often use the phrase “for the kids”…

…seems particularly ignorant of what kind of psychological and emotional damage will be done to THESE kids by a mother who can not possibly take care of all 14 and who seems to be more interested in getting pregnant than in actually being a mother.

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 7:39 PM

and who seems to be more interested in getting pregnant than in actually being a mother.

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 7:39 PM

Like Imelda Markos was with buying shoes.

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 7:47 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 7:11 PM

The point of bringing up the fact that our money is going to pay for her and her family…

…is to rebut the argument that this whole thing is none of our business.

It BECOMES our business when our money goes to help support her.

And the other point here is that we’re not talking about a couple who took fertility drugs and, OOPS!, has triplets or quadruplets.

This is a situation where a single mother who already has 6 kids (and can’t support them)…

…willingly and willfully decides to have 8 more (at one time!).

I really don’t think it’s wrong to be thinking that somewhere, someone should have told her that before she has more she should try taking care of the ones she has.

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 7:49 PM

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 7:11 PM

You must not have kids. I hate what this woman is doing to my taxes and my country. Try having to tell your own two kids “Sorry dears, Mommy and Daddy can’t afford that. We have to pay extra taxes so the welfare class have Nikes, manicures, and Doritos.”

I believe in a safety net, not a Sealy Posture-Pedic. I get angry when I find out that 19 year old “single mothers” with three kids get $1,000/month for housing plus utility vouchers, transit vouchers, food stamps, spending money, and medical bennies to boot.

If they spent more time working and actually taking care of their baby-daddy-babies, maybe they would be too tired at the end of the day to spread their legs.

Laura in Maryland on January 31, 2009 at 7:57 PM

Good thing California is broke.

And that the medical profession has ethics.

profitsbeard on January 31, 2009 at 7:59 PM

“It becomes our business when our money goes to help support her.”

I disagree with the Hot CAIR crowd — yes, this crowd is similar to CAIR in the sense that it is a community of people who get outraged when they are imposed upon by others. For CAIR, the imposition is on their religion. For Hot CAIR, the imposition is upon them as “tax payers.”

Nice!

Slippery slope, my friends.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 8:02 PM

that it is a community of people who get outraged when they are imposed upon by others

Interesting, but entirely worthless in regards to this conversation.

Your point does nothing to bolster the statement that it isn’t our business.

And, as I said after that, that isn’t the main reason we are outraged/upset.

The main reason is that this women has made a deliberate decision to bring into this world children that she can not take care of who will grow up with some major emotional and psychological damage.

Children aren’t collectible figurines – they are flesh and blood human beings that need caring for, attention and lots and lots of love.

This woman has created a no-win situation for the children.

In fact, how is this NOT abuse?

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Clown Car Vagina.

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM

Thread winner!

chunderroad on January 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM

[T]his women [sic] has made a deliberate decision to bring into this world children that she can not take care of who will grow up with some major emotional and psychological damage.

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Everyone’s a psychologist.

Of course there’s also a probability that one of her kids grows up to find a cure for Parkinson’s Disease.

Probabilities are double sided, my friend.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Everyone’s a psychologist.

Of course there’s also a probability that one of her kids grows up to find a cure for Parkinson’s Disease.

Probabilities are double sided, my friend.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Multiples tend to have learning and brain development problems, in addition to physical health problems. Mom spends all her time at the fertility clinic or the OB/GYN. When is she going to help these kids with their homework. Yeah, they’re going to be MDs PhDs and become world class medical researchers. RIGHT!

Maybe you were part of a large litter. That would explain a lot.

Laura in Maryland on January 31, 2009 at 8:27 PM

I would, these are children we’re taking about here. You can’t deny them care because you don’t like how they came into the world.

right wing chicky on January 31, 2009 at 7:09 PM

A friend of mine did a study where they provided all this prenatal education and care to a group of pregnant unwed mothers. They hoped education as to birth control, child care and education, helping them graduate from high school, and career counseling, would discourage teenage unwed pregnancy. It did not. The girls loved all the attention and all of them became pregnant again almost immediately.

No one is denying anyone care. But, without negative repercussions, people tend to repeat their errors. You’re not doing anyone any favors in the long run.

So, cut the saint act. I’m not impressed in the least.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM

I watched O’Reilly on Friday, too. This was a line by Dennis Miller, wasn’t it?

stonemeister on January 31, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Perhaps she did what she/he did?

The pregnant man and his wife did the fertilization at home because they were turned down by so many licensed physicians.

nor on January 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM

Probabilities are double sided, my friend.

jeff_from_mpls on January 31, 2009 at 8:18 PM

So the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many?

And how, exactly, does that make what she has done right and responsible?

And if somehow one escapes this prison of abuse of non-caring…

…how does that balance with the 13 others who don’t?

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 8:37 PM

What is drawing the idiot trolls to HA tonite? There is NO excuse for this freak of nature, to argue otherwise is an exercise in stupidity- trust: This will unfold as a moneymaking ploy between mother and Dr. No ethical Dr. implants 8 embryo’s.

anniekc on January 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM

KFI640AM Bill Handle Show – it was an off the air quip he quoted.
I roared.

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM

whatever

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 8:48 PM

And the kids will never have a father? Selfish? Irresponsible?

Wethal on January 31, 2009 at 4:35 PM

What was the alternative for the kids? Spend a lifetime in a freezer before being discarded. Catholic Vote has a commercial about something like this that they wanted to run during the Super Bowl.

factoid on January 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM

What was the alternative for the kids?

Well, the embryos shouldn’t have been created in the first place.

And I’m having a hard time buying into the argument that since they already had been created, then the mother was somehow obligated to give birth to them and keep them.

I don’t know if the embryos could have been successfully implanted into other women. If so, that would have been a much better outcome.

And I also think that the birth mother should have given some of them up for adoption.

As it is, more than likely she’s going to have them taken away from her because she can’t adequately care for them.

Religious_Zealot on January 31, 2009 at 9:04 PM

I don’t know if the embryos could have been successfully implanted into other women.

Yes, it can be done and is done.

Blake on January 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM

I’ll have 12 more kids for 2 million dollars. Where do I sign up
/sarc

Brat4life on January 31, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Thanks, Pro Choice America!!!
Because of you, this woman has ultimate choice over her body. And it’s a “private issue” between her and her physician how many eggs should be implanted at time of fertilization. And we should butt out and not impose our beliefs on this fine woman because we don’t know her, haven’t walked a mile in her shoes; etc, etc.Therefore, we as taxpayers must pick up the cost of the care of these children.
YET, the Pro Choice crowd is ready to impose THEIR beliefs on HER body by saying she should have aborted by selection. Yet, THEY don’t know this woman,THEY haven’t walked a mile in her shoes; etc, etc. And WE need to pick up the tab to have these babies killed. Despite OUR Beliefs.

And thanks to Pro Choice America, the doctor that implanted the 8 embryos should lose his license. Yet, any doctor willing to abort any or all of the these children is completely ethical. HUH?

I Triple Dog Dare NARAL to defend this woman on her choice for life, and Quintuple Dog Dare them to defend the Doctor who risked her life in implanting 8 embryos at once.
It’s on.

heavenhelpus on January 31, 2009 at 9:53 PM

I didn’t see anyone else mention this part of the story,

Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert,”

Now, maybe a “television” childcare expert is different from someone actually trained and experienced in that field but I don’t think it is based on quantity and her children are so young it can’t be experience. Let’s just hope she gets some nut in California to pay a couple of million for her story and then she quietly goes somewhere to raise her brood. And the best of luck to her.

Cindy Munford on January 31, 2009 at 10:15 PM

If you’re curious about what we’re up against as a nation with the previous Ticker “Here It Comes”, particularly when it comes to California and its fiscal problems that threaten to turn into an all-on state-wide collapse, this ought to make it rather clear:

LOS ANGELES – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.

Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter, Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.

That’s right.

14 children, all conceived by artificial means, unmarried, and worse…

“She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said ‘Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?”‘ she added. “And she said it’s because she got paid for it.”

Uh, by whom was she being paid? That wouldn’t be our wonderful “welfare” system, would it be? WIC, EIC, you know, “pay me to live and poop out kids”?

Nor does it end there:

“The eight babies — six boys and two girls — were delivered by Cesarean section weighing between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces. Forty-six physicians and staff assisted in the deliveries.”

Not one of those children could go to a normal nursery ward as all are critically under normal weight. Never mind the 46 physicians and staff (and the dozens more who will take care of these kids in neonatal until they reach a safe weight to remove from around-the-clock medical supervision) – who paid for them?

14 children. No ability to cover the expenses of having or raising them by herself. Implanted by a medical system that was paid by you and I to perform these procedures, given “free” medical care which you and I paid for, born into a demand for extreme immediate medical care and expense and now, to raise those 14 children (each of which, by the way, has a cost of at least $100,000 – each – from birth to 18, assuming no complications post-discharge) you and I will pay for that too.

The epitome of “I want, therefore I will have, and damn the consequences and costs; you will pay.”

There is no chance of this woman being able to forward up the nearly $100,000 per year that such a family would cost to raise assuming, once again, not one of those kids requires special care.

That’s after we (not she) pay the $1,000,000+ in up-front costs for the neonatal and birth expenses for these eight. A neonatal stay is an easy $150,000 (each), and that’s if things don’t go badly south.

It didn’t matter. She wanted an entire kindergarten class of her own and so by God she was entitled to access extraordinary medical procedures to have one, irrespective of her personal ability to cover the cost.

This is what the nation is up against.

This is why California is broke.

This is what we have created and allowed to fester in our country.

This is what happens when demands are not tempered by ability to pay and the consequences of one’s actions, but instead are allowed to be shoved off on other people. It is what happens when ethics fail and regulation is eschewed to enforce that which ethics refuses to.

In the financial markets it was put this way by Jesse’s Cafe:

“You want leverage? Imagine a 20 billion dollar portfolio of mortgage backed securities with a capital base of $10k, literally 2 million-fold leverage. Imagine the shock of the inventor as he watches as his successors expand similar portfolios up to $900 billion.

…..

The guys initially putting these packages together had some sense that they were crazy, that they made no sense, but nobody said stop, and they didn’t care. It was a good time to make money and then move along.

Got it?

It was a good time to do what we wanted, get what we want, take as much as we can (irrespective of the ethics or even the law involved), ignore the consequences and then move along, saddling someone else with the bill.

This is not just a financial markets issue. It is an everything and everywhere issue.

The problem is that there is no “someone else” and the bill is on the table. We will pay that check, and it will be paid through radical contraction in our standard of living and, if we do not stop rewarding these sorts of actions and instead try to bail them out we will suffer an all-on economic and social collapse.

THAT is what has to change if we are to solve the problems we face, and WE as Americans must demand that it change.

Buckle up.

Buckle up.
- Karl Denninger

MB4 on January 31, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Muslims have been tellng us right along that they would bury us with their birthrate. I wonder if this whackadoodle female is a giant step forward in that plan to overwhelm American society.

NahnCee on January 31, 2009 at 5:46 PM

I’m glad I’m not the only one to entertain this thought.

Disturb the Universe on January 31, 2009 at 10:44 PM

heavenhelpus on January 31, 2009 at 9:53 PM

+10 — but watch and see if Pelosi doesn’t somehow find away to use this tragic story to her pro-choice advantage, about how we need more federally-funded birth control, more federally-funded education, more federally-funded abortions, etc. The liberals are just that lacking in self-awareness as to completely overlook the hypocrisy. And I say this as someone who is on the fence as to the pro-choice/pro-life issue. It’s zealots like Pelosi who will guarantee I don’t get off on their side anytime soon.

While I agree with the arguments that this is our business b/c we’ll be footing the bill for it, I think even more importantly, it’s our business because there are 14 people in the world now who didn’t ask to be here, were conceived in a most obscenely irresponsible manner, and are virtually guaranteed an unstable upbringing by virtue of the fact that they have no father and their mother is clearly mentally ill. THAT ought to be society’s main concern. Every child deserves better than this. What they might or might not become as adults is irrelevant at this point. What matters is what kind of childhood these kids are going to have and from where I sit, the picture isn’t particularly rosy.

I think the hypothesis that she either had this done across the border, or as part of some black market moneymaking scheme, seems probable. I can’t fathom a legitimate doctor in this country implanting EIGHT embryos into one woman at one time. Surely doing so would guarantee sanctions — at a minimum. In fact, whoever this doctor is, HE ought to be saddled with half the bills this woman will incur in caring for these children. He is as irresponsible as she is. In contrast, Jon and Kate Gosselin did NOT have IVF; they used fertility drugs. High-order multiple births are almost always the results of infertility treatments, not implants.

NoLeftTurn on January 31, 2009 at 10:53 PM

This woman makes Adolph Hitler Campbell’s parents look sane in comparison.

Disturb the Universe on January 31, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Exit question one: Time for DSS to step in here?

Didn’t we just go through the exercise about the smoking ban in cars and conclude that the state should not interfere with adults making decisions?

mycowardice on January 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Clown Car Vagina.

Tru2my2 on January 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM

Thread winner!

chunderroad on January 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM

Google search the terms, clown car, vagina and uterus in various combinations. You’ll find how unoriginal this comment actually is.

Lorien, who is very funny, was the first I noticed using it here. Mazztek, who is completely unfunny, tried to pawn it off as his original thought once. Now Tru2my2 has truncated the phrasing as if that makes it more his own.

Chundernuts, please don’t encourage this uber-lameness.

The Race Card on January 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM

But other than that, it’s straight out of a storybook

LOLOLOL you crack me up Allahpundit!!

Dollayo on January 31, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Exit question one: Time for DSS to step in here?
Didn’t we just go through the exercise about the smoking ban in cars and conclude that the state should not interfere with adults making decisions?

mycowardice on January 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM

She’s 33. She has 14 kids and is obsessed with children. What is she does this again? At what point does she clearly have more children than any human can handle?

Disturb the Universe on January 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM

She’s 33. She has 14 kids and is obsessed with children. What is she does this again? At what point does she clearly have more children than any human can handle?

Disturb the Universe on January 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM

Disturb the Universe,

I’m on the side of government intervention, both here and with respect to smoking in cars when kids are present. I just find it puzzling that yesterday the line being pushed by some was that government shouldn’t interfere, yet today we want the government to do so.

mycowardice on January 31, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Didn’t we just go through the exercise about the smoking ban in cars and conclude that the state should not interfere with adults making decisions?

mycowardice on January 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Guess I missed that conclusion. Was there a vote or is that your interpetation reached hastily in an effort to demonstrate inconsistency?

a capella on February 1, 2009 at 12:31 AM

I just find it puzzling that yesterday the line being pushed by some was that government shouldn’t interfere, yet today we want the government to do so.

mycowardice on January 31, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Ah, so it was just a line pushed by some rather than a conclusion by all. Is that the final? You shouldn’t get so excited when you sense a big score,..it makes you sloppy.

a capella on February 1, 2009 at 12:35 AM

As BO has said, “This is the height of irresponsibility!” Could apply both to the mother and the IVF specialist.

miron on February 1, 2009 at 2:49 AM

The government should investigate why the doctor implanted 8 embryos.

And, the gov. will have to step in if she can’t adequately care for her children, and I don’t see how she can with out a lot of help. Like I said, the infants will need round the clock feedings and care for quite a while. Let’s say 30 minutes to feed, change burp interact. So 30 x 8 kids = 240 minutes x 8 (every 3 hours)= 1920 minutes/60 minutes = 32 hours per day.

So, unless she can work 32 hours a day, she will need help. Even with two people, they must each put in 16 hour days.

So, that leaves 8 hours per day for an adult to do everything they have to do: sleep, eat, prepare meals(theirs and the babies), shop, go to the bathroom, bathe, etc. Going anywhere, even to the doctor would be a major fiasco. This doesn’t even factor in caring for the other 6 kids.

The state is not going to pay for child care, nor should they. If the kids start showing signs of neglect, the state will have to step in and remove them.

Apparently, mycowardice endorses parents neglecting infants and children and objects to the government stepping in.

Blake on February 1, 2009 at 4:01 AM

I guess it’s her life. It’s now her children’s lives who on one hand would not exist without her and on the other are going to live a very unique existence. I suspect a great deal of government monies to assist. Oh well… Considering the mess we are in this is a nit…

sabbott on February 1, 2009 at 5:10 AM

The government should investigate why the doctor implanted 8 embryos

Hmmm…just a thought: Is it possible she went to multiple doctors who didnt know she had already been implanted by someone else?

I dont really know how the process works but maybe it is possible that she went to one doctor, got implanted, then went to another doctor who implanted her again without noticing because, seriously, who the hell would do that?

SnakeintheGrass on February 1, 2009 at 5:56 AM

Studies have shown that infants who are not held and loved will withdraw and even die (if not held for a long enough time).

Those that live have a lifetime of psychological and emotional problems.

Seeing as she couldn’t care for the 6 she already had…

…and seeing that there is no way she can properly care for these 8…

…and seeing that this was a purposeful decision to have 8 more…

…can we conclude anything other than this was an evil act (to bring into the world children she can’t/won’t care for) and that it constitutes a most devious kind of abuse?

Religious_Zealot on February 1, 2009 at 6:54 AM

Hmmm…just a thought: Is it possible she went to multiple doctors who didnt know she had already been implanted by someone else?

No. They give the woman drugs to cause her to ovulate. They then, remove the eggs, fertilize them, and implant the embryos days later. Anyway, no doc is going to do anything to her without first testing to determine that she is not already pregnant. Also, they use ultrasound to visualize the womb. If she were already pregnant, they would know.

However, I thought these were embryos from her prior pregnancies? Still, you can’t just walk around with your spare embryos from doctor to doctor.

Blake on February 1, 2009 at 8:04 AM

Ive been wondering about Angelina in this regard too. Even though she can easily afford them, there seems to be something driven about her need to have non- stop kids by one means or another.

jeanie on February 1, 2009 at 9:03 AM

If the media digs deep enough I’m sure it will come out that Todd Palin is the father.

KEEP DIGGING MEDIA! DO IT FOR BARRY SOETORO!

ex-Democrat on February 1, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Ive been wondering about Angelina in this regard too. Even though she can easily afford them, there seems to be something driven about her need to have non- stop kids by one means or another.

jeanie on February 1, 2009 at 9:03 AM

Angela is the grandmother. The baby factory’s name is Nadya, I believe.

Disturb the Universe on February 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Ive been wondering about Angelina in this regard too. Even though she can easily afford them, there seems to be something driven about her need to have non- stop kids by one means or another.

jeanie on February 1, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Angela is the grandmother. The baby factory’s name is Nadya, I believe.

Disturb the Universe on February 1, 2009 at 12:18
PM

Nevermind. You were referencing the movie star. My mistake.

Disturb the Universe on February 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I like when someone said, “The Vagina is not a clown car”

TheSitRep on February 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM

What a shock. In a culture where you have shows like ‘Jon and Kate plus 8′ and some other show where a woman and her husband have 18 kids, it’s no small wonder that you have some nutjob looking to have literally a litter of kids as a way to fame and fortune and fame.

Considering news reports are saying that her parents lost their own home in their quest to support her (before she had this next brood of 8) and moved in with her (in a house they allegedly bought), and that the father’s now having to go back to work to continue to support his irresponsible and surely mentally ill daughter, I’d say it’s pretty likely this hopeful “expert” is living on the dole.

redfoxbluestate on February 1, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Crooked is the word.

Searching ‘suleman octuplet’ in yahoo I found wikipedia article with many links from which I piece together

Her parents divorced in 1999 but still live together. Her mother filed for bankruptcy in 2008. Nadias father has been described as former Iraqi military, and as working as a contractor in Iraq.

The divorce does not compute. It smells like a way to transfer debts and then bail since the parents still live together. The divorce was an American divorce. It is not mentioned if there was also a divorce under islam.

Nadia Suleman aka Nadia Doud is described as a professional student. momlogic posts a neighbor who helped care for her autistic child asked Nadia how she could afford it and Nadia said she was paid. momlogic is a blog and there is no verification of source

Her parents are divorced and live together. She may well be married in islam but not in our civil courts.

Her tolerant parents do not compute

entagor on February 1, 2009 at 1:29 PM

sorry, here is the momlogic link (Unverified information worth an investigation)

entagor on February 1, 2009 at 1:33 PM

I like when someone said, “The Vagina is not a clown car”

TheSitRep on February 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM

More like the uterus is not a clown car…

redfoxbluestate on February 1, 2009 at 1:50 PM

1. From his charming dingbatedness, am wondering who Jeff in Minneapolis voted for in the last Presidential election.

2. Wondering who Nadya voted for in the last Presidential election.

3. Bet the answer to both is the candidate in favor of Big Government and taking from the rich to give to the (stupid and irresponsible) poor.

(Isn’t there a large Muslim enclave in Minneapolis?)

NahnCee on February 1, 2009 at 2:37 PM

It’s the demographics, stupid. – Mark Steyn

The family appears to be muslim.

JustTruth101 on February 1, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Hey Jeff,

How’s your state, it’s gotta be California, doing financially? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

americanpatriot on February 1, 2009 at 4:39 PM

We should really pass a Green law limiting people to only having 2 kids at most. This woman is irresponsible towards the planet and humanity.

/s

I was just thinking about the state of our economy and all that. And I was wondering. Should people on state aid be allowed the same freedoms as those not collecting?

Meaning, should they be allowed to smoke? Drink alcohol? Go on vacation? Have kids?

If we are going to apply exclusion rules (loss of freedom) to our coming National Healthcare system, then why stop there?

DWB on February 1, 2009 at 5:19 PM

In my opinion, the mother of the octuplets is extremely selfish. She is clearly putting her own needs and desires before the needs of her children.

The children are victims. They are young and need individual attention. One of the older children is said to be autistic. There is also a set of two-year-old twins in the family. Two-year-olds demand attention. There are not enough hours in a day for one person to give six very young children the attention they deserve. I don’t care how wonderful, how caring, or how super-human Ms. Suleman thinks she is: she doesn’t have the necessary time to be an effective mother no matter how much she says she loves her children.

When Ms. Suleman turned up for her latest IVF treatment, she knew firsthand (having already given birth to twins) that it could result in a multiple birth. If she used the same fertilization clinic, the doctors there would know from past experience that she was opposed to “reducing” the number of embryos in the event they all survived the implantation. Couldn’t someone think outside the box and wonder how in the world this single woman could manage another set of twins, triplets or whatever? I’m guessing she was bedridden for a good part of this last pregnancy. That was all time stolen from her existing children. I can’t for the life of me understand this woman’s selfishness.

I’m faulting the fertility clinic here (that produced so many embryos in the first place) for not realizing they were dealing with a nut case.

In one of the newspaper articles, a former nanny for the autistic child claimed the mother said she was being paid. Maybe she was testing some new sort of IVF procedure that helps embryos divide into more embryos upon implantation. Maybe she has some kind of connection with the fertility clinic and gets treated for free. Who knows? I believe there’s a lot more to this story.

But the question remains: who in their right mind would implant multiple embryos into a 32-year-old mother of six young children when the youngest children are year-old twins, when there’s already a special-needs child, when there is no husband or partner in the picture, and when the grandparents who have been helping with the existing children are no longer supportive?

Wouldn’t the ethical response be to at least convince the mother that five pregnancies in such a short amount of time is taking a toll on her own health and that she should wait at least another year (in the hopes she would change her mind)? Wouldn’t the ethical response be to suggest psychiatic treatment to understand this obsession with having babies? Just because someone wants something doesn’t mean they should get it.

[From my preview, I see this is all running together. How to you make paragraphs in a post?]

fgh on February 1, 2009 at 11:29 PM

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