Smells like Smoot-Hawley
posted at 12:09 pm on January 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
As if the Democratic Porkfest Bill didn’t do enough damage on its own to the long-term prospects for the American economy, the Washington Post reports that it could set off a trade war that would bring the global economy crashing, too. Democratic protectionists loaded up the bill with “Buy American” clauses that shut out foreign producers of steel and iron. Just as in the Depression, however, that will force other nations to close their markets — which will virtually recreate the Smoot-Hawley fiasco that made the Depression exponentially worse:
The stimulus bill passed by the House last night contains a controversial provision that would mostly bar foreign steel and iron from the infrastructure projects laid out by the $819 billion economic package.
A Senate version, yet to be acted upon, goes further, requiring, with few exceptions, that all stimulus-funded projects use only American-made equipment and goods.
Proponents of expanding the “Buy American” provisions enacted during the Great Depression, including steel and iron manufacturers and labor unions, argue that it is the only way to ensure that the stimulus creates jobs at home and not overseas.
Opponents, including some of the biggest blue-chip names in American industry, say it amounts to a declaration of war against free trade. That, they say, could spark retaliation from abroad against U.S. companies and exacerbate the global financial crisis.
This is the end result of the protectionist rhetoric of the Democratic campaign in 2008. And it’s not hard to see why they pursue it. Buy American is a slogan that practically guarantees popularity. What could be more patriotic than looking for the Made in the USA label, especially when taxpayer dollars are on the line?
Nothing, if you don’t mind killing the entire American export sector. We already have large trade deficits, thanks to our massive wealth transfers each year to oil-producing nations based on our unwillingness to pump our own crude. If we touch off a trade war, which this will almost certainly do as it violates all of our WTO and bilateral trade agreements, other markets will close their doors to American products, such as cars and technology. Instead of closing our trade gap, we will explode it, and even those oil imports could get retaliatory tariffs from our two closest trading partners, Canada and Mexico, our two largest foreign suppliers of crude.
We have done this before, and under worse circumstances, which is why this such sheer folly. The Smoot-Hawley tariff act turned a severe but recoverable recession and turned it into a generational depression. Instead of working cooperatively, the major trading nations had to respond to American penalties with more penalties, and the Buy American provisions of the New Deal entrenched those divisions, making recovery impossible. The rest of the world — Europe, Asia, Latin America — would likely shut out the US and trade amongst themselves, and we would lose decades of work in building American economic strength abroad.
America doesn’t need a trade war at this moment in time. We need to ensure our access to as many foreign markets as possible. Protectionism now will take us down a primrose path that we have traveled before, and the end result will be bread lines and 25% unemployment, and worldwide misery.
Blowback
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But I thought he was the world’s President?
kingsjester on January 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM
I try to buy American whenever I’m out, but to make it an official government policy is not smart.
BadgerHawk on January 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM
This won’t be good.
modnar on January 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM
We already have large trade deficits, thanks to our massive wealth transfers each year to oil-producing nations based on our unwillingness to pump our own crude.
Makes absolutely no sense. Drill, baby drill!
Tony737 on January 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Obviously the dip$hits slept through US History.
Oink on January 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Obama and the Democrats: Weakening America one day at a time
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
“Buy American”
Where will Obama’s cult get their coke and heroine?
fogw on January 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
You expected differently from a D President and a D Congress?
lorien1973 on January 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
You oversimplify Ed. You and I both know that all the American Oil left wouldn’t end the massive wealth transfer. The only way to do that is to get American transport off oil. Get freight on rail, get cars on electricity. All American crude out of the ground TODAY (which is beyond impossible) wouldn’t even do the job entirely, depending on the time frame. Factor in reality, and you wind up making a BS statement, that pumping our own crude (a long process) can replace foreign oil. That is simply not true Ed.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Buy AmericanBye, America/FIFY
Christien on January 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
He will destroy America just to pretend he is FDR…..who almost destroyed America.
pat on January 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
This is what you get when you allow stupid people to vote.
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Ed, you’re making the mistaken assumption that Obama and the democrats want the economy to rebound and recover…
they DO NOT..because more poor people means more dependent people…which means MORE POWER for the democrRATs…
and thats all they are about.
right4life on January 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM
FIFY
lorien1973 on January 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Actually, I would rather trust dead and imaginary people to make better decisions than the current mongoloid electorate ;)
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Obama said he supported free trade, so I guess this really is change.
Angry Dumbo on January 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Obviously the dip$hits slept through US History. – Oink
They probably never even TOOK history class … it’s too ‘offensive’ for them to hafta suffer through.
Tony737 on January 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
WPE!
um, buying gas from overseas isn’t a wealth transfer. It’s a transaction.
The government generally prefers to buy American. So, how is this a declaration of war on free trade?
I mean, I don’t doubt that the Democrats have made clear that they want to wage a war on free trade, but is this it?
Wow, less than 2 weeks in office and we can see why this country only lets the democrats have power every 30 years or so.
joeindc44 on January 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Hmmm….let’s see, an American President who was a Marxist up until he started campaigning along with a Democrat led House and Senate who want ever bigger government. Think none of this is on purpose? Guess again. A country where the individual is free of governmental tyranny, it’s now in the middle of a death rattle…
adamsmith on January 29, 2009 at 12:19 PM
You’re skirting dangerously close to giving somebody an educational economic enlightenment ;)
Most people think that ‘wealth’ is those little bits of green paper…
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM
“Change” we’ll get in line for, comrades.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Kini on January 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
I know that Free Trade has become a Republican Mantra… but there does need to be a balance between Trade, and protecting your own industries from cheeper labor.
Our own laws have destroyed Manufacturing in America. Green laws make it expensive to build… Worker Laws make labor more expensive… Corporate Tax law makes it cheeper to do business overseas than here…
We used to be able to compete because our technology was better, but now we transfer that tech to other countries… so any technology gain we get, is only short term…
Face it folks, totaly free trade is not the answer, just as no trade is not the answer…. we need somthing in the middle..
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
The one thing that all serious scholars of the Great Depression (Temin, Kindleberger, Eichengreen, Friedman, Schlaes–and even Keynes– are the most significant) agree upon is that Smoot-Hawley made things worse.
And Ogabe and his cronies want to follow this. Nice.
PimFortuynsGhost on January 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
No , they’re experts on the great depression , you’ll see..
the_nile on January 29, 2009 at 12:22 PM
No problemo, we’ll end up in a big war somewhere that will end the depression.
Akzed on January 29, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Nope. Smells like Crap Sandwich has been topped off with a health scoop of bat sh!t.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 29, 2009 at 12:22 PM
If we get freight on rail, what do you think powers those electric motors in those DIESEL engines? If we get electric cars (which are total crap, by the way) where do you think the electricity to recharge those comes from at your natural gas and oil power plants (because people like you made it impossible to build nuclear plants in this country)? This “long process” of getting more American crude could already have come to fruition if the democrat party hadn’t been blocking it for the last 20 years. They keep using the same old ‘it takes too long’ argument even though they’re the reason it takes too long. Good day, sir.
Kelligan on January 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM
More evidence that the Depression Stimulus Plan isn’t about the economy, it’s about consolidating power.
The Idiot is paying off his voting blocs.
He doesn’t care whether the economy tanks or not.
He and his obscenely wealthy handlers have theirs. All they care about is that they stay in power, and preventing you from threatening their position by moving up.
notagool on January 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Ahh…the glory of an Ivy League education!
sabbott on January 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Now that’s audacity
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Hasn’t anyone in this administration seen Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? Maybe they could screen it at the White House.
Kensington on January 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM
But the democrats saved us in the great depression. In fact, if they had spent more, we would have gotten out sooner.
http://www.therightscoop.com/
funsutton on January 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Note that Caterpillar has laid off 20,000 workers. One reason is that Columbia has in the past bought from them for their open pit mines. But with no free trade agreement, which was stopped by the Democrats and which Obama supported, Caterpillar has been hit by high tariffs. Most EU countries have such agreements. So-o-o-o where may they be getting their equipment and whose profits have been hit two ways because of the same stupid congressional inaction.
amr on January 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
O/T but Blago is on now pleading for his job at the Illinois impeachment proceedings.
I think it’s hysterically funny that one of the things they’re impeaching him over is helping hospitals in return for contributions. Isn’t that exactly what Lightworker did for the U of C?
Y-not on January 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Classic fallacy.
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Sigh… crunch some numbers.
If you convert the energy we use, from oil, for transportation, into electricity, we would have to increase Electricity production 140%.
Thats more than TWICE what we currently produce, and does not count the line loss inherent in any electrical grid.
Compressed Natural Gas is the tech to use. Its HERE, and ANY current gas engine can be converted to run on it. We have enough to tide us over until the next big tech breakthrough, and the technology already exists…
Oh… and although not a “Warmer”, did you know it burns cleaner?
There are free market answers that we could do…. electric cars are not currently one of them however.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
Amazingly, Democrats RUN the History departments at the universities and they STILL don’t get it.
BKennedy on January 29, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Consider the ‘versions’ of history that they teach….how can they learn anything from their warped perspective?
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Obviously the dip$hits
slept throughwere taught revisionist US History.Oink on January 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM
…Fixed!!
fiscallyconservative on January 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Really? please explain… and keep it in the real world…
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Obama and the Democrats: Weakening America one day at a time
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
If you put that on a bumper sticker I’ll buy it. You have a gift for this. Bravo!
milwife88 on January 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
I came to save the world from itself. Misery loves company. All praises go to the Messiah for his abundant mercy for bringing to our attention that poverty is enriching. We are not worthy, we are not worthy!
technopeasant on January 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Yup. The Democrats aren’t doing this through incompetence or ignorance. They want to exacerbate the situation so they can take advantage of people’s fear and grab more power for themselves. Funny how that’s what they accused Bush of doing.
rbj on January 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
They
teachpreach Russian history.fogw on January 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
A petty distinction, but a fair one nonetheless. If CNG is more economical than electric for the time being, so be it. However, given a long enough time frame, those resources are finite. But sure, CNG is a reasonable and economical alternative, I wont argue with that.
My real point was that Ed was extremely misleading with his statement on domestic drilling and our trade defecit.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM
“Amazingly, Democrats RUN the History departments at the universities and they STILL don’t get it”
Actually, they run the History deparments just so that they can rewrite history.
We are in the 3rd phase of the takeover of the left.
1. takeover the press
2. takeover education
3. elect an appealing candidate who masters the art of neutralizing any issue and who optimizes American demographics
4. destroy the producers in the name of fairness
It’s all about permanently entrenching an elite class that can never be challenged for power again.
notagool on January 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM
This is it. Everyone has swung between two ideas of Obama: he is either extremely intelligent or extremely stupid. I know we love to assume the latter, but, if IF it is the former…and Democrats are loathe to assume he is anything other than intelligence incarnate, he is pure EVIL. Seriously, folks. This is econ 101. He understands this. He is not a stupid man, right? Then he and his ilk are unabashedly communist and he longs to be a dictator like in every other banana republic of the world. THIS MAN IS PUTTING TEETH TO ALL THE AMERICAN BASHING. He seeks to bring us low and humble us on the world stage. They have been dreaming vacuous utopian schemes for eons and now are moving the pieces in play. I guess people just thought this was a silly game we were playing during the election…all this talk about associations and why it MATTERED. How else do dictators take over? How else do civilizations crumble? From within…
Mommypundit on January 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM
First off, im all for nuclear power. Id be building the f#ckers everywhere I had the chance. However, ignore the fact that there isnt enough american oil to replace the OPEC stuff. Stop acting like it is. If you dont like the alternatives, come up with something else, but because you dont like the idea doesnt mean america magically has enough oil to sustain itself.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
The problem with free trade, in this world, is subsidies.
Let’s say Europe subsidizes steel, so the producers can sell it for $10/ton and take a loss, with the government making up that difference in subsidies.
US does not. So producers must sell it for $20/ton to make a profit.
Free trade would say “let’s buy from Europe, it’s cheaper”
If nothing was subsidized, free trade is wonderful. Since everything is; there has to be a way to level the playing field again.
Constitution permits the fed government to negotiate trade agreements. I’m totally for free trade when the goods are not subsidized. Subsidize it, making an artificially unfair playing field, and I am not.
lorien1973 on January 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
The dems don’t get it (or they do and that is worse), which means at least 54% of the voting public doesn’t get it.
It isn’t the “Buy American” or lack of that hurt us, it is not enforcing trade laws…not enacting trade laws that counter act what other countries are doing.
Just China tying their currency to ours is enough to have caused this horrible trade deficit…and the loss of our manufacturing to them.
All they would have had to do is enforce this very obvious international trade law that has been ignored by China (and others), with no repercussions.
right2bright on January 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
You are so correct. Why do the pundits still insist on trying to make sense of the Dems agenda? Obama and the dems want to bring this country to its collective knees in every sense.
They want global parity and the only way to do this is to crush the super power.
It’s not rocket science and unitil we call them out for this specifically, we are barking at the moon.
Remember this…?
http://papercuts.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/what-obama-is-reading/
katy on January 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Last year when oil prices were through the roof, the Democrats blamed oil speculators. Who where they you ask? Harvard university had 8 percent of its $35 billion endowment invested in oil stockpiles.
http://tbm.thebigmoney.com/articles/diploma-mill/2009/01/27/losing-harvards-billions
“More than one-quarter of Harvard’s funds were still sunk in “real assets”: about 8 percent in stockpiled oil, about 9 percent in timber and other agricultural land, and 9 percent in real estate participation.”
pedestrian on January 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Even if domestic drilling doesn’t solve every energy need , it’s part of the solution.
And it keeps money at home instead in the hand of the enemies .
And it lowers the import prices by increasing supply.
So Ed’s right.
the_nile on January 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Learning from history only works if you acknowledge what really happened in history.
The Liberal’s control history, as they are in charge of writing it. That’s why FDR is a hero.
portlandon on January 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM
rbj on January 29 at 12:31 PM
technopeasant on January 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Just don’t raise the price of steel until I’m done buying guns and armoring my bunker.
Bishop on January 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Apparently BO knows as much about American history as he does about our 57 states.
ksm on January 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
this bill requires that the CRAP/ULOUS INFRASTRUCTURE projects are the ones that have to use american contracts. I happen to believe that the CRAP/ULOUS INFRASTRUCTURE projects won’t amount to a hill of beans. This legislation doesn’t prevent international companies from getting contracts on non-stimulous projects. Wasn’t Smoot-Hawley universal?
bilups on January 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM
We can overcome trade subs (and we do) with tax incentives, and other programs…but it does no good if China specifically pegs their currency to ours, no amount of our subsidies can overcome that, since the “currency” would reflect those subs.
right2bright on January 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM
No foreign countries, and no domestic whites (per Reich.)
JiangxiDad on January 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Well, you’re first statement was correct.
But it doesnt prevent money from getting sent to our enemies, only lessens that flow (minimally)
And it seems that demand destruction has had a stronger downward pressure on prices than a supply increase (notice how it takes many successive supply increases by OPEC to swing the price back…but one good shock to demand and the price plummets)
Seems to me the way to end the problem has more to do with destroying demand permanently rather than increasing supply over a finite time period.
So Ed’s not right, nor is he wrong, he DID however, oversimplify to the point of being sly.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Uh, know anything about Oil Shale, and the Green River Basin?
Oil is there, in LARGE amounts, but it is so much cheeper to pump it from the Mid East that it is not economical until oil hits about $60 a barrel.
Heck, I’m all for a North American Energy Zone. Put up Economic trade barriers to energy coming into the zone… then drill the heck out of North America.
Oil prices, while higher, would be more stable, and all the Capital for it would stay in North America, so the overall economy would be much better off.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Barney Frank made it clear that he doesn’t want to give tax cuts to people because we’ll just use our money to buy things made in China.
MayBee on January 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Romeo13, natural gas is out, cause you gotta drill for it, so that can’t happen. ernesto you are so right, we will run out of natural gas if companies cannot drill and explore.
Oleta on January 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Thanks to the hopey changey politics of the democrats, this country will self-destruct in 3, 2, 1…..
Atlanta Media Guy on January 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Our local AM talk station opened a phone line for people to leave messages about the “Stimulus” Bill. It’s tanking big time with the public.
Cindy Munford on January 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM
The opposite of protectionism is free trade. So, hows’ all that free trade working for us now?
Ed, you sound as if we are the worlds largest supplier of “stuff”. We used to be. Now, we are the worlds largest consumer of “stuff” made somewhere else.
And what is this world-wide misery, and when did it become my responsibility? Do you mean the misery in 3rd world countries (where the misery has existed since man first stood upright)? Do you mean the misery of Camp 22 in North Korea? Or the religious conflict in the Middle East?
What was lacking during the Great Depression was manufacturing capacity. There weren’t enough natural resources being converted to consumer goods. The economy was driven by the great Robber Barons, who manufactured enough goods for export to keep the status quo; when protectionism was enacted, the largest market for the manufacturing sector (exports) dried up, leaving no customers for the factories; ergo, they shut down.
Today it is much different. Manufacturing is much more diversified, the working class are not relegated to a handful of industries dependent on exports, we even have a service-based segment of the economy that did not exist pre-depression.
Ed, we can build a wall around the US, develop our own goods, services, and energy and grow as a people and a nation. WE don’t need the ROW. THEY need us.
Tony Blair said it best a few years ago about the future of US foreign policy:
This statement applies to foreign diplomatic, economic, and military policy.
BobMbx on January 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Where are theses battreries to run our cars.
How do we get the freight from the shipper to the rail yards
Can we use these batteries to heat homes in place of oil
How do we get the freight from the rail yards to the consignees
In the mean time “Drill Baby Drill”
norryrr on January 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Subsidies are only part of the problem…
Like I said earlier, part of the problem is our own laws.
It takes a tremendous amount of capital to build a factory here in America, even BEFORE you start building. Permits, fees, Environmental impact statements, court costs from being sued… and years of paperwork…
Then add in all the additions we add to pure labor costs… like Healthcare, Unemplyment insurance and such…
THEN add in the new anti lead laws, which mean you have to test every batch of everything you make for lead… even if it does not have any in it…
And its suddenly a whole lot cheeper, and faster, to build a factory in another country, and ship stuff here.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Ah, but the reason we “can’t” drill is purely political… which can change by educating the Electorate…
Problem is that only the Left is organized, and talking right now… so they drive the debate.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 12:51 PM
And if they get their Con Con, the United States of America will cease to exist…
jerrytbg on January 29, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Bingo. Don’t forget all the wheelbarrows we’re going to need to buy a loaf of bread because of inflation. One question though – is there ever a good time for a trade war?
Buy Danish on January 29, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Romeo13, that was my point. Being from W TX, don’t ya know I am a Drill Baby Drill chanter? The whole ten to twenty years to get oil flowing is only because of all the rules and regs put up by environmentalists to prevent drilling.
Oleta on January 29, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Like limited government.
Johan Klaus on January 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Still seems to me that destroying the demand for oil period brings with it more benefits than trying to put a patchwork together to hit demand for just foreign oil. There are political, strategic, and environmental (yes, the freaking environment matters…though not as much as the wackos say) gains to be made by collectively finding an alternative to oil. Short term economic constraints cant be the ONLY thing that guides our long term thinking on these important matters.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 1:00 PM
And unions.
Johan Klaus on January 29, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Um, you ARE familiar with the fact that natural gas isnt a renewable resource right? That means it doesn’t last forever. Why burden future generations with finding the alternative…thats a cop out and frankly a lame way to think about our nation and the future.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Oil, “the best bang for the buck”.
Johan Klaus on January 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM
CDSOA lives !!!
elgeneralisimo on January 29, 2009 at 1:05 PM
How much was in this $850 billion bill for alternative energy? $8 billion last I checked. That’ll maybe cover the studies that will take years.
Obama’s played his entire hand in week one. Wait’ll the bill hits in October when the deficit numbers come in.
These people arent interested in what you are- honest.
Chuck Schick on January 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Ok, let me see if I’ve got this:
1) The ‘Stimulus’ is tied up in infrastructure projects like bridges and such
2) One of the biggest delays in major infrastructure – such as bridges – is that you have to wait for the main beams to come in from China. There’s no US steel factory that can produce those very large items. In fact, from what I’ve heard, they can only be produced by a few foundries in China because the world as a whole really does only need so many / year.
3) The ‘Stimulus’ bill requires that all of the infrastructure stuff be American made.
Hmmmm…
Doesn’t that mean that no ‘real’ infrastructure projects can actually be done since the bill forbids the purchase of the most important components?
KCSteve on January 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Being an egotist is one thing. I’d say having a huge ego is almost a requirement for a job like the presidency.
This however is sheer stupidity. It’s beyond having an ego so big that he thinks everyone else is wrong and only he can be right.
This road has been traveled before, almost step for step, and it’s been a failure wherever it’s been tried. Keynesian economics, protectionism, holy crap. Next thing on the agenda I suppose is handing over control of the united states military, legislature, and eventually control of federal and local law enforcement to the united nations, then making sure it’s run by proper communists.
I’m really starting to hate this sock puppet and any asshat that supports him.
Spiritk9 on January 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM
The problem however, is government interventionism.
If I had a choice between two cars, one Green, and one not, at the same price and close to the same performance?
I’d choose the greener.
Problem is that they are not even close now, and our own laws are in the way of getting them closer, because the Government is picking winners and lossers. They have politicized this issue to the point where it hurts the country.
Wind Power is stupid (only works when the wind blows, which means you need another whole set of infrastructure to produce power when it is not blowing).
Solar may be good someday, but aint there yet.
And yet, the Gov is forcing these two solutions down the economys throat…
I say let the market decide… let Scientists and Engineers have the time to work out the Technology… make it economical FIRST…
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Hallelujah – the final piece in the depression puzzle is awaiting insertion.
Vashta.Nerada on January 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
And where does “natural gas” originate from? Are you absolutely positive it is not renewable?
right2bright on January 29, 2009 at 1:11 PM
We have a more than 500 year supply of natural gas – I think we can take our time on finding the appropriate replacement.
Vashta.Nerada on January 29, 2009 at 1:11 PM
What the heck does “Buy American” mean these days anyway? The last American car I bought was manufactured in Ontario. The import that I bought recently was manufactured in Alabama.
Mr. D on January 29, 2009 at 1:12 PM
I was lucky enough to talk to my Grandfather just before he died, about his life.
He went from Horses, to men Landing on the moon, in his lifetime.
We literaly cannot imagine where we may be in 100 years… or what technology breakthroughs may happen…
But destroying our economy NOW waiting for a breakthrough is stupid… Natural Gas could tide us over for the next couple of generations… as we build more infrastructure for Electrical generation, or whatever the MARKET decides is the best solution.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 1:16 PM
You shouldn’t have to write this kind of proviso into law; the managers of such projects should do it because it’s common sense and arguably morally right; especially when our economy here at home is in such bad shape…
That’s why my wife and I buy American manufacturers cars and goods as much as possible…
Whatever happened to the union’s buy American propaganda anyway? Oh, that’s right, it ended when they all started bying Toyotas and the KIAs that were dumped over here!
Codifying this is a veeeeery bad move and will start a trade war that will hurt our economy badly, and as noted roll back generations of free trade efforts…
This is just a bone to throw to America’s labor unions…
B-B-BUT OBAMA’S BRILLIANT!
RocketmanBob on January 29, 2009 at 1:16 PM
So, we can’t torture terrorists because of what they will do to our soldiers when they capture them, but it’s perfectly OK to close our markets because nobody else is going to close theirs.
In other words, we can’t violate the Geneva Convention because we signed off on it but our WTO agreements aren’t worth the paper their written on.
Do I have this right so far?
Kafir on January 29, 2009 at 1:17 PM
“The Fallacy of the Middle” is a classic form of fallacy, along with ad hominem, ad verecundiam etc…
LimeyGeek on January 29, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Speaking of BS…
1) Rail freight runs on diesel. More efficient than tractor trailers from point-to-point, but still diesel. Plus you still need tractor trailers at both ends.
2) Many of our largest cities still have periodic brownouts, especially during summer when air conditioning really puts a load on the grid. How would it be possible to switch our vehicle infrastructure to electric without the necessary infrastructure? I haven’t seen the Dems budge much on easing restrictions on building new nuclear plants.
3) Every barrel pumped domestically is one more barrel where money isn’t going out of the country. This “all-or-nothing” attitude is well “divisive at a time when we need unity”… just to quote the Dems.
Your points sound pretty… until you look at the situation logically. Diesel/gasoline/jet fuel are still the most efficient means of transporting usable energy. Nothing else even comes close considering our current usage.
dominigan on January 29, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Obama and his socialist cronies have put this once great nation on a fast track to total destruction. His so called “stimulus plan” is nothing more than a massive rape of the treasury designed to pay off his parasitic constituents and supporters and implement hundreds of expensive and useless social programs. The economy continues to weaken and the stock market continues its decline because there is nothing positive in the governments plans that offer hope for an improving economy. They will continue with their gluttonous absorption of our national wealth until we are all standing in a soup line waiting for soup that will never materialize. Even worse are the cowardly politicians that lack the fortitude to expose this sham and force the new regime to change its ways. These are sad and dangerous times that appear to be leading us into an abyss from where there is no return.
rplat on January 29, 2009 at 1:22 PM
The market doesn’t have a long enough time frame. The market didnt get us to the moon, a will and principled action got us there. Sometimes, in very, very few circumstances, principled action must be taken. It really just depends on the time frame you’re ok with thinking about. Hawking insists that for our survival as a species, let alone a society, we have to leave earth. Now he’s absolutely right, but im not thinking THAT long term, but you get the idea.
Oil is a national security risk. It is a finite resource who’s use creates pollution (screw global warming, smog still freaking blows). Sure we cant upend our economy TODAY on a whim, but there is a serious lack of planning on concervatives part for an era without oil. Think longer term people, your great great grandchildren will thank you.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 1:25 PM
This isnt about efficiency, its about sustainability. Think longer term than our current situation will ya? Im 23, I wanna see 60 years from now, and goddammit it better look different than today. You know how it gets different, but thinking differently today. Thinking about pure efficiency is not how the greatest societal moves get made. Our governing structure is the absolute opposite of efficiency, by design. We didnt get to the moon thinking about whether it was efficient for us to do so. We didnt end slavery because it was the efficient thing to do. Etc. etc.
Long term people…think long term. A real future, one we can be proud of, starts with thinking long and hard today about how we can make things better. Sure this minute we cant make any sea changes, but stop acting like even bringing it up is naive.
ernesto on January 29, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Actually, since the trade deficit is more a function of foreign investment and exchange rates, this might get rid of the trade deficit–by obliterating foreign investment (bound to happen in a trade war).
Way to go, congress.
/s
Count to 10 on January 29, 2009 at 1:28 PM
With oil shale, and offshore, we have enough oil for well over 100 years.
Natural Gas? I’ve heard estimates as high as 500 years.
Lets see…. 100 years ago, 1909, we were primarily a COAL and animal based infrastructure for transportation. That changed within the next 50 years… to a petroleum based infrastructure… all with NO Large Government intervention.
What will be available 100 years from now? who knows… at least as long as the government gets out of the way.
Romeo13 on January 29, 2009 at 1:32 PM
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