baldilocks on January 28, 2009 at 1:30 AM

Context: Esthier talked brought government into the topic here.

Certainly, but then the batter knows this and doesn’t make a fuss over it unless he wants to get kicked out of the game.

This coach got fired because he didn’t like a school policy. That happens all the time and rarely makes headlines.

You’re still not getting it. No one is saying that the school doesn’t have the right to fire the coach. People are just saying that they think the school was wrong–not illegal.

In high school, Cheryl Miller (Reggie’s sister) scored 105 points herself in a 179-15 win. Did her coach get fired?

WaltDakota on January 26, 2009 at 10:58 PM

The coach didn’t get fired because of the score. He was fired over openly disagreeing with a school policy.

Baldi, this is what I was talking about. Maybe it’s just a misunderstanding of why the coach was fired, but generally people here are on the side of the employer when an employee does something that violates the company’s standards, knowing full well what those standards are.

Esthier on January 27, 2009 at 10:56 AM

You’re still not getting it. The employer has the right to fire the employee for any legal reason (and I believe any reason). All those who disagree with Covenant School’s reason are merely saying that they don’t agree with it.

If you’re taking three pointers with a 70 point lead, they should be from just inside the half court line with one second left on the shot clock.

No shot clock.

Another suggestion: when up by 30 in such an obvious victory, throw in the second string.

No second string. The coach only had 8 players, and 5 had to be on the court. He did have 3 subs, and he played them. That still left two starters in at all times.

When up by 50, throw in the third string.

No third string. At all.

If you’re still up by 50 and you’re under five minutes left, start running down the clock and either throwing it from half court or handing it to the ref when the shot clock buzzes. Better yet, give the opponent a clinic by just running the ball under your own basket, setting a defense, and handing the ball to their guard there so they can get some much-needed practice on their offense.
flutejpl on January 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM

What would be the point? If you’re deliberately throwing the ball away, or handing it to the ref, or handing it to the other team, then you might as well give up the pretense of playing a game. That would be every bit as humiliating as continuing to run up the score.

I suppose there are other things you could try, but I don’t think you’re really going to find a good answer.

In fact, the only real good answer to prevent this sort of result is to either make sure the teams are better matched to begin with, or have some kind of “skunk rule” that kicks in when you have a big enough lead early enough in the game. I don’t know of any such rules that have ever been applied to basketball, so you’d be entering new territory there.

The coach didn’t get fired because of the score. He was fired over openly disagreeing with a school policy.
….
Esthier on January 27, 2009 at 10:56 AM

That would only be true if the school specifically had a policy about this situation. The coach was fired for saying that he didn’t think it was right to shame or embarrass the players, and that the players had done nothing wrong.

I won’t argue that the school didn’t have the right to fire him. But they were wrong, because they over-reacted to the public embarrassment by taking the victory the girls had won and forfeiting it because they won by too much.

School management certainly has the right to make personnel decisions, but forfeiting a game to punish their players for winning by too much was just wrong. That was the coach’s responsibility, not theirs.

And good for the coach that he spoke up against such a wrong-headed decision by the school, even though he knew it might cost him his job.

I’m taking the coach’s word that he took measures to keep from running up the score too much. I think he trained his players just too well, and the other team just wasn’t good enough.

It happens. Sometimes teams get stomped. I’ve sometimes been on the stomped end, and it’s no fun. But it’s part of the game.

And maybe I’m different, but even if my team is getting stomped badly, I’d rather finish the game than have someone call it off as an act of “mercy.”

No, I said, Bob never Stoops to running up the score. His father, a high-school coaching legend in the state of Ohio, would spiral in his grave if Bob ordered his starting quarterback to throw for a late touchdown in a blowout. Bob’s three brothers, all coaches, would immediately offer up some tough love.

Offered to counter the false assertion that the taboo against running up the score is some recent product of political correctness, and to detach it from other discussions about the flawed “self-esteem” movement. It may have always been controversial, but the controversy has always been there.

I wish to hell I’d never said the damned thing. I meant the effort. . . . I meant having a goal. . . . I sure as hell didn’t mean for people to crush human values and morality.

“Winning isn’t everything. It’s the only thing!” Bullshit.

I have no problem winning, beating an opponent, dominating an opponent, etc.
I have a problem with unsportsmanlike conduct, coaches who can’t get their story straight. He was on the sideline cheering to get to 100…I say he was bush league, you think he is a hero…I think he sets a bad example, you honor him…you think kicking someone when they are down is being an athlete, I don’t…you think running up a score is part of the game, I don’t…I stated who I think is a exemplary coach, you would not agree since I know he would never condone such an attitude

I’m gonna take these one at a time…
1)”I have a problem with unsportsmanlike conduct, coaches who can’t get their story straight. He was on the sideline cheering to get to 100…”

They played by the rules, to the best of their ability and scored during the allotted time. That is what I expect the coach to “coach” the team to do. And yes, if you’re a new coach and the other team is not conceding defeat, I assume one would cheer when your girls were close to setting their personal/team goal.

2) “I say he was bush league, you think he is a hero…”

Who brought the President into this? And as long as you did, I believe you have it wrong, its Bush league = hero. ‘

3) “I think he sets a bad example, you honor him…you think kicking someone when they are down is being an athlete, I don’t…”

There is NO score that is worse than ZERO. How about that? I honor him because not only did his team NOT get 0, his team scored 100 points. Not him. The team of girl basketball players. Who beat another team of girl basketball players.

4)”you think running up a score is part of the game, I don’t…”

Anything past ZERO is running up the game.

5)”I stated who I think is a exemplary coach, you would not agree since I know he would never condone such an attitude”

Since you didn’t ask, I’ll tell you who my favorite coaches are… Vince Lombardi and Jimmy Johnson, Dallas Cowboys Coaches.

Some quotes from Vince Lombardi:
“Winning is not a sometime thing: it’s an all the time thing. You don’t win once in a while; you don’t do the right thing once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.”

“There’s only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything. I do, and I demand that my players do.”

“If you aren’t fired with enthusiasm, you’ll be fired with enthusiasm.”

“Mental toughness is essential to success.”

“You never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man.”

Some quotes from Jimmy Johnson:
“The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.”

“Do you want to be safe and good, or do you want to take a chance and be great?”

And my favorite… “How ’bout them Cowboys!?”

right2bright on January 27, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Dude, they had ADD!

Moral: maybe the other coach was just really, really bad and was possibly the one who should have been fired.

slug on January 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Or maybe the other team was a team of girls with learning disabilities and a record of not winning…so the coach took advantage of the situation. (as was the case).

I’m sure someone will tell me I was a big old meanie… I only did what I was trained to excel at, IMO.

Califemme on January 27, 2009 at 3:36 PM

If you can’t understand the difference between a beach vollyball game, and a coached high school game, where the coach knows exactly what team he is playing (a learning disability team), then I feel that is your problem.
I have no problem winning, beating an opponent, dominating an opponent, etc.
I have a problem with unsportsmanlike conduct, coaches who can’t get their story straight. He was on the sideline cheering to get to 100…I say he was bush league, you think he is a hero…I think he sets a bad example, you honor him…you think kicking someone when they are down is being an athlete, I don’t…you think running up a score is part of the game, I don’t…I stated who I think is a exemplary coach, you would not agree since I know he would never condone such an attitude…you have your standards, I have mine.
On this issue, we don’t agree on much…you had different coaches then I did, I learned being a good athlete carries some responsibility…poor athletes, weak athletes, never learn that.

True story: I was coaching a football team of 12 and 13 year olds. We were up by 50 at half-time. Was I expected to tell my scrubs (who never got to play) to lay down before they got to the goal line? After the game, the other coach decided to ream me out for running up the score. I said to him: “You’re the head coach right? Why is it that you didn’t notice I ran the same play on every. single. snap? (It was a hand-off to our slowest player who had never played running back and he ran between our right guard and right tackle each time.)

Moral: maybe the other coach was just really, really bad and was possibly the one who should have been fired.

I thought the apology was a sign of true class. I hope the school of the losing team has apologized to the kids and their parents for having such a pathetic program.

right2bright on January 27, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Well, I can certainly say I know a lot about many sports; basketball, football, volleyball, etc. I went to the beach over the summer and joined in a 6 on 6 volleyball game, and when it came time for me to serve, the score was 1-0. By the time I finished serving it was 1-14. Should I have let up since it was “just a friendly” game, and I had years of training? I almost felt bad, since I was specifically aiming at weak spots on the other side of the net, aka “girls”, and they still smiled and shook my hand after. Did I display “poor sportsmanship” or did I display my skills and talent?

I’m sure someone will tell me I was a big old meanie… I only did what I was trained to excel at, IMO.

Anyway, I wonder if anyone would be so concerned about “humiliation” if these two teams would have consisted of boys.

misslizzi on January 27, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Awww, the real problem exists…a little girl whiner, playing the gender card.
Every woman reading your post, cringed…gender has nothing to do with it, nor does winning or losing.
But your posts do tell me something, you do not know much about sports, athletes, and responsibility of coaches.
Let me give you some advice, that you probably foolishly won’t take:
Read two books…Wooden, by Steve Jamison, and then read Wooden on Leadership also by Steve Jamison (his pyramid of success is worth the price of the book).
Then if you are a faithful spiritual person pick up “Coach one-on-one, by Jay Carty.
It gives you a daily devotional, and you will see why he is so exceptional…a model for every coach.
Never yelling, never berating, never cursing, always better prepared then his players, and demanded great things from his players, but no more then he was willingly to sacrifice himself.
You read those three books, and you will then have a good idea of what sports is really about, and life will be just a little better.

By the way, I don’t coach anymore but still teach PE now at a K-3 campus. Guess what we’re playing today. A clue…it starts with dodge and ends with ball!

Spider79 on January 27, 2009 at 12:51 PM

You’ll probably get fired AND sued by some far left Liberal wackjob for playing such a violent, unfair game. The young skulls full of mush will whine to Mommy and your toast… You know that my points are factual, most liberal union run districs have dropped any sport of keeping scores, playing dodge ball and other “mean spirited” activities, like graded papers in… oh God, wait for it…. RED LETTERING!
So please keep your wussiefied poop away from Conservative kids… At least then we know that our Sons and Daughters will be in charge of or leader of your kids in the real world someday.

Here’s a thought: Maybe the girls who lost should take this drubbing as a holy smite, prompting them to spend their limited daylight hours honing their talents instead of their weaknesses–especially if said weaknesses are optional.

Here’s another thought: perhaps there’s more to !@#$% life than the way we feel about things; and dwelling on said feelings keeps us from getting freakin results.