Minnesota Recount: The election challenge explained
posted at 4:50 pm on January 26, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Minnesota started its election contest in the Al Franken-Norm Coleman Senate race today. No one expects any decisions on this for at least a few weeks, and in the meantime, we’re not going to get much new news other than spin efforts by both sides. Ben Ginsburg, Coleman’s campaign attorney, tries explaining the process and the effort behind the election contest:
REPORTER: The Minnesota Senate race. No, it is not over yet. Today a three-judge panel begins taking a look at the recount which left Democrat Al Franken ahead of Republican Norm Coleman by 225 votes out of nearly 3 million cast. The judges’ decision could be months away. It finally will determine the winner whenever it comes in. We have reaction now from both sides, starting with the Coleman campaign. On the phone from St. Paul, Minnesota, Coleman attorney Ben Ginsberg. Ben, we have seen the painstaking video of the Canvassing Board going over these ballots, basically vote by vote. How do you convince these judges that that all resulted in a mistake?
BEN GINSBERG: Well, not quite vote by vote, Jon. The Canvassing Board itself, and the Minnesota Supreme Court said that the Canvassing Board only had limited authority to go over votes. So many of, for example, the 12,000 rejected absentee votes were never before the Canvassing Board. On top of that, the Canvassing Board did allow in 933 absentee ballots. In doing that, there are ballots that look exactly the same amongst the rejected absentee ballots, that have not been allowed in. And so it is the contest stage under Minnesota law where you get to enfranchise all the people who should have their votes counted.
REPORTER: So you are saying that they sort of changed the rules to favor the democratic side?
GINSBERG: No, the Canvassing Board just under Minnesota Law has a very limited function. And so they didn’t look at all the votes and they didn’t enfranchise all of the people whose votes should be counted under standards under the Canvassing Board, in allowing some votes in. On top of that, if you look at this pile of 12,000 votes, some counties let in ballots, others counties didn’t get the ballots, yet the ballots look the same. We ask Al Franken to join with us in being sure that all Minnesota votes counted. And, we are very, very surprised that he opted not to do that. I guess because he is in a calculated litigation strategy or something. But Minnesota has a long, proud tradition of having every vote count. And, shockingly, Al Franken is not joining it.
REPORTER: Well if he is ahead, I mean, can you blame him?
GINSBERG: Well I mean, there are sort of crass calculations that could be made at any stage. But we are asking all 12,000 votes to be examined and a big chunk of those will come in. They ‘re not all going to be Norm Coleman votes, there are going to be Al Franken votes in there, but in order for people to have faith in the final results of this election, you have to count all of the votes. And we hope that Al Franken will eventually join us in that.
REPORTER: I don’t know if you can give me an honest answer here. But most observers are saying that, you know, with the Canvassing Board having, you know, certified that he comes out, that Franken comes out, 225 votes ahead, you’ve got a tall order to try to convince these three judges that Coleman may stand a chance to be the winner here.
GINSBERG: Oh, I think that people who say that don’t really understand what the process is; they say the Canvassing Board has a very limited jurisdiction and they just looked at the ballots that were in front of them which was not all the ballots. Under Minnesota law the contest phase is the first time a unified, one group of judges will take a look at all the votes to be sure that all the similar ballots are counted the same, which after all, Jon, is the touchstone of any fair election.
No one who’s followed this even superficially can dispute one thing: the election has turned into a mess, and the responsibility for that belongs to everyone and no one. If we had the option in our state law, the best solution would be to void the election and hold a run-off. Failing that, the election contest panel will have to find a way to correct a recount process that failed Bush v Gore and the Equal Protection Clause. How would they do that? Probably by authorizing the count of the 12,000 rejected absentee ballots and reversing the double-counting of ballots in some precincts. Either that, or they could rule the recount invalid and certify the Election Day results instead, but that’s a long shot indeed.









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Hey we all know Frankenstine will win.
Rick007 on January 26, 2009 at 4:53 PM
lizard people
forest on January 26, 2009 at 4:57 PM
more votes will be found in the trunks of cars, or in basements of polling places and Frankenstein will throw temper tantrums until they’re counted in his favor.
Mooseman on January 26, 2009 at 4:58 PM
great job
rob verdi on January 26, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Stolen.
BadgerHawk on January 26, 2009 at 5:04 PM
It’s just interesting how the smug MN officials claiming “we aren’t Florida in 2000″ has devolved into, well, Florida in 2000.
highhopes on January 26, 2009 at 5:04 PM
But what about the ACORN votes?
faraway on January 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM
One of the points often missed in the reports of the MN Supreme Court’s rulings was not that they told Coleman he couldn’t raise these challenges; the court said he was raising them at the wrong time and in the wrong court.
His arguments were being raised prematurely in the supreme court, but he was not prohibited from raising them at the appropriate time. He could raise them again in the election court, which is what he’s doing.
Wethal on January 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Isn’t Coleman already working as a lobbyist for a Republican Jewish group? Seems a bit of a conflict of interest to be a lobbyist and a (possible) senator at the same time.
Sally S on January 26, 2009 at 5:20 PM
But he isn’t a Senator- they even changed the locks on his office doors. There is no conflict here.
I think a bigger ethical lapse comes when US Senators take their salaries and stay “Senators” while spending the better part of two years on the road campaigning for the Presidency. The people of NY, IL, and AZ all were ill treated because their various congressrodents were out there raising money and campaigning.
highhopes on January 26, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Again, cue Nancy Kerrigan: (and not because I thought the act was funny, because sometime that wail is just too appropriate!)
Minnesota, why, why, why, why, why, why, whyyyyyy?
juanito on January 26, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Dude, Stewy Smalley:
You are not smart enough; you are not good enough and golly darn it people DO NOT like you.
sorry, could not resist…
Branch Rickey on January 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM
I’ll say that. When ever there was a dispute before the Canvassing Board, the outcome always seemed to favor Franken, change the totals after the Election night for some and don’t change the totals from Election night in others.
Rogue on January 26, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Gosh Sally S: you nailed! It’s the JOOOOOOOS fault again.
btw, Sally S. – you are an idiot.
Branch Rickey on January 26, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Keep fighting, Norm Coleman.
chunderroad on January 26, 2009 at 5:59 PM
The awfulness of the miserable, horrible weather in this state pales in comparison with the awfulness of this miserable, horrible recount fiasco.
I propose a trade: have The One put the Jihadi’s in Minnesota and relocate us Red Minnesotan’s to Gitmo.
Trust me, it’s a win/win.
Bruno Strozek on January 26, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Bruno Strozek Do the Jihadists get a vote? And to visit Minnesota first?
IlikedAUH2O on January 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM
From a tiny acorn a mighty tree hath grown. Election fraud, thy name is Oak.
Lily on January 26, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Why is NO ONE investigating the Canadian votes in Cook, Lake, St. Louis and Kitson Counties in MN?
Maybe I should move to Minnesota and register my dog to vote.
nelsonknows on January 26, 2009 at 7:12 PM
maybe if coleman was, you know, a better senator, he wouldn’t be losing.
Xolom on January 26, 2009 at 7:34 PM
A very stupid thing for Coleman’s lawyers to do:
Good grief, you don’t try to pull a fast one on judges, EVER. Coleman can count himself very lucky that the three judges are willing to allow Coleman to resubmit the evidence again, untampered with.
starfleet_dude on January 26, 2009 at 7:38 PM
It’s too late for this election cycle but I’d like to think we can convince the Minnesota legislature to prevent it from happening again before the 2010 cycle. With the hardware and software available today, using the scanner technology in use today, the legislature could create specifications such that every ballot would either be accepted or rejected on the spot and corrected by the voter if there are issues. Who better to determine the voter’s intent than the person casting the ballot? Ballots could only be counted when they pass all validation. Once counted, they would not be subject to human interpretation.
The specifications can account for the variations in the density of the fill in the oval (Overfill, underfill, etc.), extraneous marks, number of votes allowed per office or ballot question, etc. The problem isn’t in the technology. It’s in getting the legislators to have the political will to prevent these debacles in the future.
As far as technical cred, I’m an IT professional with over 40 years hands on experience in hardware and software development. I also have some experience in image processing and am co-inventor on 3M software patent for their medical digital imaging equipment.
BadDogMN on January 26, 2009 at 8:04 PM
I am a firm believer in the system.
as long as liberals arent allowed to keep re-counting until they get the results they want..
I have a simple question
1. how many LEGAL citizens VOTED that day?
2. count every one.
3. the ones where it isnt clear go ASK the voters.
thats it.
so how come we keep ending up with more votes than PEOPLE.??
come on morons i can do this in excell
Cant you???
jcila on January 26, 2009 at 8:15 PM
How crazy is Al Franken?
Bat **** Crazy.
God Help The People of Minnesota and Of The United States If This Clown Steals The Election.
Mr. Joe on January 26, 2009 at 8:22 PM
BadDogMN, if you can really write software that can truly divine a voter’s lack of intent, my hat’s off to you. I’d settle for putting a sign up in each voting booth stating:
“If you make a mistake, you may request another ballot.”
starfleet_dude on January 26, 2009 at 8:29 PM
I’m with you in that I would also expect that we should expect each voter to be able to express their intent using existing methods and have their ballot “stand on it’s own”, no third party interpretation allowed. Unfortunately, time and again we’re subjected to the absurdity of people looking at someone else’s indecipherable hen scratches (Or lack thereof) and divining the original intent. Enough of that.
I don’t suggest writing software that will divine anything. I’m suggesting that we do two things: First, establish a set of empirical specifications such that if a ballot passes the validation tests, it gets counted. If it doesn’t pass it’s rejected, the voter gets a new ballot, and the spoiled ballot is marked for destruction and is prohibited from use in any context. Second, change the election laws of Minnesota to utilize the technology to put the onus back on the voter where it belongs, fill out the ballot so it passes validation and gets counted.
If for any reason recounts are required, they’re carried out using the same equipment and software certified for the election. No human interpretation allowed.
BadDogMN on January 26, 2009 at 8:52 PM
1. They already voted. Keith Ellison vouched for them.
2. They can check into the Hotel Minnesota anytime they want, but they can never leave.
Bruno Strozek on January 26, 2009 at 9:45 PM
“the election has turned into a mess, and the responsibility for that belongs to everyone and no one.”
er, no, Ed, the buck stops with yer s.o.s. and yer chief executive — both of whom get a massive FAIL.
Buckaroo on January 26, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Was that reporter Caroline Kennedy?
Knucklehead on January 26, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Yeah, cuz, like, Al Franken is a major improvement. Nobody in the senate is so bad that they should be replaced with Franken. In some cases,it might be a vertical move, but in no case would it be an improvement.
xblade on January 26, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Dear Branch Rickey,
The name of the lobbying group Coleman works for is: Republican Jewish Coalition. That’s the official title of the organization. There was nothing in my email that suggested that I was saying anything about him being Jewish or that this was a Jewish issue. I was merely bringing up the issue that he is working for a lobbying group.
By the way, Branch Rickey, I think you are a genius. I can tell a lot about you from the two sentences you wrote. That’s usually how I pass judgement on people, according to 2 sentences they utter. Thanks for making my day so wonderful, Branch Rickey. It’s a pleasure to have you responding on the boards; you make the world a better place!
Sally S on January 27, 2009 at 11:46 AM
What an effed-up state. Lutefisk must be an halucinogen.
lonesomecharlie on January 27, 2009 at 1:27 PM