Video: The surprisingly obligatory “school apologizes for winning 100-0″ clip
posted at 7:30 pm on January 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
Via Breitbart. I dumped this into Headlines earlier hoping it’d crack double digits in comments. As I write this, we’re at 131 and counting. Debate’s raging over two issues, it appears: (1) Is it inappropriate for one team to run up the score if they really are that much better than the other? And (2) would we answer that first question the same way if these were two teams of boys? Answers: Yes and yes. Any other questions?
Blowback
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Sorry for the OT, but I just found this. How in the world has AllahPundit not posted on this kerfuffle yet?
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 7:35 PM
It’s just a game……
Kini on January 23, 2009 at 7:37 PM
I heard about more details about this on the radio this evening. The winning team was keeping a full-court press on the whole game, plus going for three point shots whenever they could. That’s bad sportsmanship.
tunakermit on January 23, 2009 at 7:37 PM
If a team sucks so hard that it loses that bad, they ought to suck it up and get used to it.
Ugly on January 23, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Count me as a nonbeliever. A nonbeliever in Hussein.
Kini on January 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM
When the game is well out of reach, the starters need to come out and the bench players need to come in.
Stop going for 3 pointers and work on fundamentals such as good ball movement and good work without the ball by your second-stringers.
There are lots of ways to not run up the score and still accomplish something useful for your team even when you are winning in a blowout. To win 100-0 is selfish and dishonorable, any way you cut it.
Edouard on January 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Character builder…….100 ways
Rovin on January 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM
First of all the game itself was stupid. You wouldn’t pit the the University of Texas against some obscure small high school so why in the world would you even consider this fiasco? this country is showing signs of insanity.
rplat on January 23, 2009 at 7:41 PM
Lessons in life………..
………. are not always easily learned.
Seven Percent Solution on January 23, 2009 at 7:42 PM
A lot of people got upset in the comments because one of the teams has “learning disabilities”, and so therefore were at a disadvantage on the basketball court.
For those people, I would remind you that learning disabilities consist of problems such as attention deficit disorder and dyslexia. That team is NOT “handicapped”, as in suffering from Down’s Syndrome or Multiple Sclerosis. Those conditions would undoubtedly affect the ability to play basketball. ADD? Not so much. Not enough to rack up a 0-100 score.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 7:42 PM
The team that lost should work harder to get better. If they can’t get any better, then that’s life. That’s all.
SouthernGent on January 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Agreed, most of the best athletes I have known qualify as “learning disabled”.
Why doesn’t the losing team get a trophy for trying their best?
darclon on January 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM
I’m not adding more to the debate (I don’t think there even is anything to debate here – everyone involved agrees the “winning” schools conduct was deplorable, even the school itself).
But if you’re going to argue it, you check the school’s website. After you notice that the varsity coach’s contact information is strangely missing, read the athletic department’s stated mission here:
The Covenant Athletic Program is intended to complement the school’s classical, Christ-centered curriculum and to help fulfill the school’s mission:
You can decide for yourselves whether Dallas Covenant’s conduct matches their mission statement. Especially # 8 up there. Is it “Christ-like” to wildly cheer as your team presses the court, shoots 3 pointers, and keeps every starter in the game when its 90-0 in the fourth quarter against a 4-year-losing streak team of learning disabled kids from a school with 20 students?
If you can debate that one with a straight face, knock yourself out.
For what its worth, the full text of the school’s apology is also worth reading – and has some lessons in class and maturity for some of the posters here:
Professor Blather on January 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM
I still maintain that they should have at least pulled their starters, and yes, I’d feel that way if they were boys.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Well, I’m a competitive person myself. I play in softball and walleyball leagues. And nothing pisses me off more than times when another team, which knows they are that much better then my team, decides to take their foot off the gas and ‘show mercy’, because we suck so badly and so they half-ass it. That’s insulting. Personally, I want the other team to play their best for the entire game, to show respect for the game and for their opponent. I felt the same way when people were whining about the New England Patriots ‘running up the score’ last season in the NFL. Simple solution: get better.
This whole kerfuffle is stupid. Putting in 100% effort is not selfish and dishonorable. It is the way everyone should play every game.
There’s a simple solution to this nonsense: don’t schedule teams that are so unevenly matched. There’s no point to playing the game if the players are going to give their all and then be criticized for being ‘too good’ afterwards. Just dumb.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 7:46 PM
failure breeds success
JVelez on January 23, 2009 at 7:47 PM
I don’t have the time to repeat the many comments I wrote on the Headlines thread so I’ll just restate my main points:
1) A team this bad has no business playing league games. They should restrict themselves to scrimmaging, if they like playing.
2) The onus was on the losing coach to forfeit the game when she thought the score got too lopsided.
Punishing people for success in competition – playing a fair game, no matter the score – is never good.
progressoverpeace on January 23, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Will Dr.Phil show up to explain to everyone,
what exactly went wrong,and who really is at
fault,and yes,I’m kidding!
Live and learn,usually after defeat,you strive harder?no!
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM
This does not allow for difference in temperament (why people compete), nor is any comparison to athletic levels such as pro or college make any sense.
No sport is about 100%, actually. Every sport is controlled aggression. Even boxing.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 7:50 PM
If it were an actually disabled team, I might see that. However, this is a team that apparently is so awful they’ve lost game after game. Why reward failure? What would drive them to improve if they’re lauded for their abysmal defeat?
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Bingo!
Perhaps this embarrassment will make these kid decide to go back to the gym, work hard and learn the game. Then maybe they will only lose 100 to 20.
conservnut on January 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM
For the record, the losing team has not won a game in 4 years.
progressoverpeace on January 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM
crush ‘em… there are winners and losers in life… deal with it
gatorboy on January 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Yeah… Get a lead and then let your own bench warms play. Everybody wins… or, nobody loses too badly… or something like that.
RalphyBoy on January 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Exactly. That’s the moral of this story: the small school team sucks at basketball and needs to get better before they schedule games against schools with good basketball teams. End of story.
Maybe the Steelers should apologize for beating the Chargers in the playoffs because LT was injured, so the team was disadvantaged. Or maybe the Eagles should issue an apology to the Cowboys for whipping their butts 44-6 the last week of the NFL season, because their players were disadvantaged. Maybe Michael Phelps should apologize for sweeping his 8 Gold medals and dominating the competition. Maybe the 1992 US Basketball Dream Team should apologize for kicking the world’s butts in basketball that season.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Amen to that, as well as your entire post here.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Lighten up Blather…..both schools and their programs will benefit greatly from this “sin”. And the kids on both sides have learn some valuable lessons…..
Rovin on January 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
What is victory? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
I’m not so hot on the “everybody wins” liberal theme; in life there are winners and there are losers and they aren’t always the same people.
What next, the IDF allows a few hundred of its soldiers to be killed so Hamas can feel better about itself?
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Comparisons to athletes who are paid to win such as the pros, or pseudo-paid as at the collegiate level, is asinine.
Regardless, the argument here is people arguing against the conscience of the winners – who regret their actions. Tom Hanks is right, it’s un-American if we don’t let them vote their conscience.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
I play in soft ball and walleyball leagues.
Michael in MI on Jan 23,2009 at 7:46PM.
Michael in MI: This wallyball you speak of,I’m assuming
its volleyball,if not,tell me more about
this sport,it does sound interesting!:)
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Uh, that was sarcasm %100 MC but it is the sentiment that many weepy-eyed ninnies are espousing here.
The constant award-giving that has permeated sports has cheapened everything within youth sports.
darclon on January 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM
By the way…remember the Gulf War? Remember how our tanks and troops rolled into the country after the airstrikes, right past thousands of Iraqi soldiers with their hands in the air, who never even fired a shot? Remember how that was one of the quickest wars we ever fought, and there were almost no casualties?
How about we go back and forfeit that?
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
It’s volleyball played in an indoor raquetball court, where rules allow you to use the side walls to your advantage. Ceiling is out as is the back wall. Lotta fun and quite a workout and takes some getting used to with regards to judging the angles the ball comes off the walls, especially when people learn how to spin the ball to take weird bounces off the walls.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Sure, you should continue to play competitively even when you are blowing out another team. You should be doing it, however, with your bench players when the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt.
Necessarily you have a different game plan when you are winning in a blowout vs. being involved in a close game.
If I’m the coach of that winning team, I sit the starters and pat them on the back. I have a new strategy for the bench players, such as “You will pass the ball at least 3 times before shooting; I want to see at least one screen set each time down the floor; work to get the closest shot you can every time down the floor, rather than shooting quickly from 3-point land.”
You will no longer win 100-0, but you will give your bench players the kind of game work they deserve to have as members of your team. If you drill your bench players well, one of them can step in and actually play when a starter gets sick or injured.
Aiming for 100 points while using your starters the whole time, in a game like that, is purely selfish. When you’re that much better than the other team, put in your bench players, play your second-stringers hard and win the damn thing 66-8 or something. No one would write national news reports about a 66-8 game, because such games do happen in high school basketball here and there.
Edouard on January 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM
I still maintain that they should have at least pulled their starters, and yes, I’d feel that way if they were boys.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM
That knife cuts both ways. Hey ladies, you just got beat AGAIN, but this time it was against their second-stringers.
That’s right, you are so bad that their benchwarmers crushed you into the dirt. Everyone feelin’ good?
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM
I would have after a game like that as the winning coach had several joint practices with that team that lost
Then I would have made sure all the winning girls attend one or two of their games and cheered them on
I would have never mentioned the score, the point is to have the girls realize it themselves and build the character necessary to recognise these situations and make those heart warming decisions themselves
Compare the softball game in college where the batter hit the game winnning grandslam but broke her ankle on 1st base
The other team carried her around each base and to home plate
EricPWJohnson on January 23, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Man, we love some hyperbole around here.
You are right though. Kids and adults are all the same. That’s why I am not going to set any rules for my 4 year daughter. If she gets pregnant – well, she just ‘lost’ that game.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Empty your bench, and tell them to keep playing hard and be disciplined no matter what the score is.
RightOFLeft on January 23, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Another good lesson for the girls, win a game for the first time in four years by a team that destroyed you. Why? Because they felt bad.
Now there is a winning formula, a pity victory.
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 8:01 PM
The point here, is that the victors are the ones that don’t feel good.
The basic argument being made is that people who wished they had behaved slightly differently are being told that they should ignore their own conscience. Pretty presumptive.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:01 PM
In a liberal world,wouldn’t the coach basically
be fired for putting her/his athletic students
through this perceived torture!(Sarc!).
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 8:03 PM
+1 My sister works for the state school for the deaf, and was assigned to coach the middle school girls basketball team this year. Most of the girls had never played before, and a lot of the kids have additional disabilities besides just being deaf. She only has five players to start with, and one of her players is slightly MR. And, it’s hard to really convey here, but try to imagine teaching basketball to kids who can’t hear you (so you’re explaining the game through ASL), have learning disabilities, and have never played before. So, of course, the kids are terrible, but have been improving all year as she’s tried to teach them the basic rules of the game, the fundamentals, and basic defensive and offensive plays (try explaining a two-three zone to kids who can’t hear you). Most of the teams in their league have been playing together since youth basketball, and are pretty good teams. Before every game my sister talks to the other coach and explains the situation and asks that they basically do what you suggested: work through their plays, practice ball movement, practice their man-to-man defense, etc. And she asks them to not run up the score on her girls, because it gets incredibly discouraging for them when that happens, and when they’re down by 40 points, they’re don’t even learn from the game. Most coaches have agreed with her, and, while still winning the game by a good margin, haven’t run up the score on them. A couple of other coaches have agreed to it before the game and then intentionally run up the score. Total lack of sportsmanship.
On a side note: She tells some pretty funny stories about the kids getting confused by the difference in ASL and the signs that referees use. During one game the referee used the signal that the other team couldn’t press because they were up by so much (it’s a league rule), and my sister’s team stopped dead and looked around at her in total shock and confusion. The sign he used (other refs use other signs for it) is the ASL sign for a part of the female anatomy. My sister almost died, trying not to laugh.
meltenn on January 23, 2009 at 8:03 PM
Sports are a training exercise. They are combat, albeit a civil and recreational one. They could be called a model for war. As we’ve said, giving 100% is important. If you’re on a real battlefield, letting up could get you killed. Why would we train future generations to hold back? Should we have held back against the Iraqis? What if we held back just a bit, just because they were number 4 versus number 1? The implications of teaching people to hold back are very, very dire.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Exactly why I hate it when teams, which are obviously much, much better than a team I am on, take their foot off the gas and play 50% effort. Because it shows that they can mess around and not give full effort and STILL kick our butts. It is a complete show of disrespect, in my opinion. I’d rather them play their best the entire game and beat our heads into the ground. It will be a life lesson that in order to keep that from happening again, I, and my team, need to get much, much better.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM
But why? Because they feel it was an unfair fight? Or because others make them feel ashamed? We’re becoming a culture that trains people not to be aggressive, not to strive to be the best.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:06 PM
The point here, is that the victors are the ones that don’t feel good.
So feel bad doing what you were trained by the coach to do?
Ok, they feel bad, think how the other team will feel when they gain their victory by forfeit after being annihilated. You going to put that in the school trophy case, right up front?
I’m tired of the American ideal being trumped by this “let’s all feel bad for being good at what we do” meme.
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 8:07 PM
I repeat what I said in the headlines to another person. You are projecting your own values onto these kids.
There are a variety of reasons to play sports, whether it be fitness, or love of the game, or hatred of the school across town. Point being, people are different. Not every SG is going to be a sniper, or every PG a squad-leader, so enough of that crap.
Sports as combat is important as men, yeah, but most people reflect not that they learned who to emulate combat, but rather how to work as a team, etc.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:08 PM
Exactly.
I’ve been doing some googling trying to find some scores of their games, but can’t find any. It’s hard to believe that a team that can’t score even one freethrow in a game hasn’t been blown out before this. If they don’t want to be emberrased, they should either become a better team or drop out of the league.
clearbluesky on January 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Ah, yes, but why is it that they are programmed to feel guilty about playing hard and winning 100-0?
I still maintain that things like this are life lessons for the losers. They learn that in order to not have that happen again, they will work their butts off to get better. The winners can just move on and not worry about it. They can move on in life knowing they did something kinda cool, in beating a team 100-0.
There should be no controversy here. UNLESS the team was being poor sports about it and taunting and making fun of how bad the other team was. But playing hard and shooting for 100 points AND getting the shutout, nothing wrong with that if they played with class. Just playing hard and destroying another team is not lacking class. Doing so with taunting, sure. But just doing it in a professional manner, using the best of your skills, nothing wrong with that.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM
When the losing team didn’t score by halftime, should have played the 3rd string and not full court press. But the arguement that 3 pointers is bad sportsmanship, it’s a low percentange shot with pro’s and college players doing well to hit in the high 40′s percentage.
But the lesson is clear. Don’t be good at something, or someone in authority will take it away from you. And if aren’t good at something no need to work harder, someone in authority will give it to you.
Why even keep score if this kind of garbage is going on?
Hog Wild on January 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Why? for the same reason people liked the clip of the autistic kid draining all those 3′s that was posted here sometime ago.
Our culture should train people to be strong, but strength is nothing without the discretion of when to apply force. Again, every sport is controlled aggression, both the game and the context of the game. In this context, the winning team felt their application of force was not fitting the situation.
You can call them weak, or badly-cultured, but it’s their own conscience at work.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM
I’m not saying to hold back in a blowout.
I’m saying, take your starters out and play your bench once the final game outcome becomes well clear.
Prepare all 12 to 14 team members, not just 5 to 7 players, to be excellent on the court by playing everyone on the bench when you are blowing out another team.
Edouard on January 23, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Exactly. Well said.
And this is what I see as the biggest problem with this kerfuffle. This is a nothing story. It’s a life lesson for the losers and a nice little feather in the hat of the winners. This has been blown up into something big simply because the winners are being made to feel ashamed and guilty over a nothing game.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Sorry, I’m not in the liberal camp that says what you think is wholly determined by your environment.
What escapes you is the controversy is of your making. You are arguing against the team that wants to act in accordance with it’s own judgment. If you thought there should be no controversy, you should say – ‘whatever they think is best.’
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Actually, it would have been better if we’d actually finished the job there.
They were already crushed pretty early on. I fail to see the difference except that the winners kept acting like they were winning something by getting to 100, which is when they finally backed off a little.
And seriously it isn’t even competitively smart to leave your starters in a game they don’t need to play. I’m in favor of not treating the other team with kid gloves, but what they did was stupid and dishonorable by their own standards, hence their current embarrassment.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Perhaps the school or the coaches of that bad team should have a little pow-wow and discuss options for a team that hasn’t won in four years.
I’m thinking along the lines of DISBANDING THE TEAM and finding another sport to play. There are plenty of sports that demand teamwork which these girls could play, maybe talk to other smaller schools and get a league going. Floor hockey would be a good choice; same running, same sort of defense and offense set-ups, etc.
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Bishop, I don’t argue that at all. It’s not a victory I would want. It would be fine to be offered and declined.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Exactly.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:15 PM
The irony is that in your own statement, MiM, you qualify what is acceptable in your own subjective terms. Your argument now is merely a question of what ‘class’ is, not that it’s presence or absence matters.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:17 PM
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Eh, I’ve been in that situation myself while playing baseball; told to back off and play sloppy to let the other team win. It didn’t work, it doesn’t work.
A really good team would literally have to stare at the lights or lay on the court to lose to a team this bad, and then it would be obvious they are throwing points.
Fundamentals are hard to kick, purposely getting to 75 by solid play and then suddenly you can’t dribble would look pathetic.
Bishop on January 23, 2009 at 8:17 PM
Its volleyball…
Michael in MI on Jan 23,2009 at 7:58PM.
Michael in MI:I figured it was a typo!I played handball
at the ‘Y’ with my grandfather back when,
I like cycling and weightlifting,and your
right,you’ll gain a lot through reflexes,
or agility,and cardio!:)
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Because of their own school’s standards. This is a private school, not a public school. They set their own standards and parents who don’t like it can take their kids out.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 8:18 PM
People liked that clip because it showed a kid overcoming his serious disability to not only play on the same level as the big boys, but even exceed that level.
This clip is about some kids with reading difficulties who can’t play basketball worth a damn. Forfeiting a game to the weak doesn’t make them strong. Holding back on your playing ability to give the weak a chance doesn’t make them strong. Either they rise to the challenge, or they get trounced.
To your other comment about “projecting my values”, let me pose a situation to you. Suppose a man attacks a girl, with the purpose of raping or otherwise harming her. Is there any reason she should hold back? Is there any reason she shouldn’t cripple the guy if she gets a chance? Training her to hold back, or feel pity for her opponent, won’t help her in that instance. On the contrary, it will put her at risk. Extreme example? Yes. However, the way a person reacts to these situations, from instinct and training, is affected by experiences like these. They form a mindset which dominates their split-second decisions.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Man, I’m just not interested in arguing this one from scratch again. It really would be nice if you could just “promote” a post from Headlines, add your commentary, and bring the comments over iwth it.
mcg on January 23, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Please, don’t misunderstand me. In no way shape or form have I at all advocated that the team try to lose. That’s stupid, and I’m not stupid.
Letting the other girls on the team have a chance at playing is far different. It’s something even the pros do, because there’s no reason to sacrifice your best, get them tired or even possibly injured, when you don’t need them out there.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 8:20 PM
Um, no. This conversation has clearly past the point of reason.
This argument is beyond absurd. Sports are not designed to prepare you for rape. I don’t think one woman has ever been raped and thought, ‘..if I had only boxed him out harder.’
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:22 PM
It’s NOT a typo. There is a ‘sport’ called WALLEYball. It is the game of volleyball played on an indoor raquetball court using WALLS, thus the name WALLEYball.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:23 PM
I demand a rematch, and the losing team gets to keep Shaq in the whole game.
chunderroad on January 23, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Actually, trying for 3-pointers does show sportsmanship — it’s a time honored way for a coach to slow down the rate of point accumulation by his/her team since a smaller percentage of 3-pointers are made than layups or shots “in the paint”.
The full court press was obviously uncalled for.
“Showing respect for the game” sometimes involves showing respect for your opponents in spite of their incapacity.
unclesmrgol on January 23, 2009 at 8:23 PM
I think it depends on the age of the kids and the level of the competition. At some big high schools, where you have separate varsity and junior varsity teams, where you have tryouts to exclude some kids, then it’s a high level of competition and the varsity team should play to win.
On the other hand when you go to a small high school, like mine, where practically every kid is on the basketball team, then the values are different. Mostly you play other similar schools and the coaches and parents want to see everybody get a chance to play. If the winning school was this sort of school, their coach should have taken his starters out after a while and let everybody on the team get to play for a while. Running up the score would be unsportsmanlike.
On the other hand, whining is unsportsmanlike, too.
joe_doufu on January 23, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Perhaps I should carry this absurdity one step further. Learning how to function as a team will help sports participants execute gang-rapes in the future.
Yeah, it’s absurd.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Amen to this. Completely agreed.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:26 PM
I remember going to church camp when I was a kid,
about fifty kids who didn’t know each other for a
week,our minister was also a CO of Navy League cadets!
We played ‘capture the flag’at night,and we made
commando raids through the bush to get it,other
than walking into a hornets nest,or smacking your
head off a tree in pitch blackness of a northern
ontario night,but oh,what fun,especially when your
team won!!!Hehe!
That was fun!!!
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 8:28 PM
If a team wants to show respect for me when playing me and my team, they will give their all. Half-assing it to give us a chance is a slap in the face and shows they don’t respect our abilities.
And their incapacity in this case is that the team just sucked as basketball and probably shouldn’t be scheduling these games until they get better. Setup scrimmages until they can learn to compete.
Losing 100-0 should be an embarrassment for the losing team, not the winners.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:29 PM
It’s not beyond the point of reason. The mindset that is ingrained in children determines their reactions to critical situations. Sports is one of the most important ways to train children in how to react to situations because of the heightened adrenalin, physical activity, and need for split-second decision making. How they approach a game at that age can be very critical, especially given that it’s their formative years.
The example still stands. A situation where timing is crucial, decisions need to be made in a short amount of time, and adrenaline is fighting with your nervous system. How we handle them early on determines how we handle them later in life. Learning to hold back, or to feel pity for your opponent(pity being different than sportsmanship) can compromise your judgment in a situation where your opponent will not feel pity for you, and it’s not just this game I’m talking about. It’s the overall cultural movement to tone down competition and push away the concepts of “winner” and “loser”. It makes people passive and vulnerable.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:30 PM
I actually think neither of you know the pleasure of the contest for it’s own sake; only the rush of victory.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:30 PM
Cute. Do you juggle while you do stand-up?
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Yep. The bench has to play sometime. If the coach doesn’t even trust them to hold a 75 point lead, or a 50 point lead, or even a 25 point lead, what message does that send to the second unit? And how will the bench players respond when the star player gets hurt in a big game?
RightOFLeft on January 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM
The idea is to go for both. If you’re not going to attempt to win, why play? The battle is only enjoyable if both sides are going to compete.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Nice of you to figure you know me based on a few comments I leave on a board.
I personally have never been on a winning team. I play and love baseball and softball because (1) I am good at it and (2) because I love the comraderie of my teammates and playing well to contribute to a team’s success. It is a rush to make a great play and an equal rush to cheer on my teammates. Win or lose, I love to play and play hard. My love is for the competition, whether winning 100-0 or losing 100-0. I just love to play.
But I do appreciate you thinking you know all about me from a few comments here. Very typical of many people online nowadays.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Yes. That’s the basis of your entire argument; that kids are just small adults.
Nationalized sports programs – demand participation. The real crime here is the 12 girls at the school who weren’t playing basketball. They will, unquestionably, be failures at life, and incidentally, unable to avoid being raped.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I agree!
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Its not a typo….
Michael in MI on Jan 23,2009 at 8:18PM.
Michael in MI:I didn’t know,thats cool,call me now educated!
*Smacks oneself up the side of the head*:)
Hey,Michael,maybe it should be nick-named,
‘Ricochet Ball’!:)Haha.
canopfor on January 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Thanks. Yeah, that’s what it means to build your team, which should be the coach’s job.
I’m not at all someone who doesn’t want those girls to play hard. I just also think they should be playing smart.
Esthier on January 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM
No, the basis of my argument is that adults are a result of their training while they were kids.
Weren’t you the one just complaining about hyperbole?
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Lol. Are you asking for an apology? I can’t get you tickets from Mark Cuban.
I don’t know you, I just understand your sports perspective. When you are dominate in your sport, your perspective will [probably] change.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Yes, I was/am.
If sport prepares you for life, you are suggesting it prepares you for a zero sum life. Winner/Loser.
I’m saying there is much more to that – what about class, teamwork, and most importantly synergy.
To take it out of hyperbole, which do you think prepares a kid for an adult relationship: zero sum or synergy?
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Wrong again. I’m not suggesting that losers remain losers. I’m suggesting that those who are taught not to be 100% triers, regardless of the level of your opponent, are in danger. It doesn’t matter if someone loses, as long as they have no fear of giving everything they’ve got to win. Encouraging the good team to forfeit their win to the bad time instills in them a shame about victory, and instills the in the losing team a attitude that people will hand you a victory, and that you don’t need to try for it. That’s…what’s the word…bad.
Class, teamwork, and synergy are separate components. We’re talking about will to succeed, and the confidence to try with all your might, every time. Anything less is a message that it’s okay to sluff off.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:44 PM
Apology? Did I ask for one? You’ve been here enough to see enough of my comments. By now you should know that I don’t believe — or let affect me — anything anyone says of me on here whether good or bad. I was simply pointing out that it’s amazing to continue seeing people read a few comments from anonymous people and automatically think they know them.
Change to what? I have been dominant in sports. I have been on a team in a walleyball league where we were the 2nd or 3rd best team in our division and the team we were playing that first week was a team which had never played walleyball before. So we kicked their ass in the 3 games that counted and then afterwards when we had time remaining in the hour, we taught them proper technique, tricks and helped them out to learn the game better. But I felt no sympathy for them and we all gave our all to the games that counted. And yes, when we had a chance to win 15-0, we sure as hell went for it. Not because it was any kind of accomplishment beating a crappy team 15-0, but just for the sake of trying to do it. Because even when the team sucks, sometimes mistakes happen or bad bounces or just getting lucky into scoring at least 1 point.
I have also had the same situation in softball leagues. The only difference is that there is a mercy rule. So we are forced to stop after 4-5-6 innings depending on how lopsided the score is. But no one I knew ever decided to play half ass so as not to beat the other team 20-0 after 4 innings. You sucked and they were good? Too bad. They pummelled you and you move on. That’s life. You live and you learn.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 8:46 PM
Where was I wrong the first time? :)
I would be pleased to see the losing team decline the offered victory. But to not allow the winning team to listen to their conscience is a larger cultural price.
Right. I’m saying there is a time for controlled aggression – which all sports acknowledge by their own rules. Trying with all your might matters when there is value to it. Me dunking on 4th graders doesn’t do much.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Yeah, it just had a touch of irony of victimhood in a thread where you and Mad are arguing for hard-core all the time.
Yeah, congrats on being an adult and living as an adult.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Again, we go in circles here. These were not adults going up against 4th graders. These were girls of the same age and physical condition. They both regularly played. It was a case of Gala Apples versus McIntosh apples. You’re making out like it was Gala Apples versus Pringles. It wasn’t. Same league, same sport, same age, same everything. One side sucked monkey love juice. The other voted for Fred Thompson. Just the way it is.
MadisonConservative on January 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Haven’t won a game in four years! 100-0. What, they couldn’t get the ball close enough to the rim that by chance it could go in.
They need a new coach or else go play in a league more their their skill level. The one girl said they play for fun. Losing every game can’t be much fun. Vince Lombardi is rolling over.
Mallard T. Drake on January 23, 2009 at 8:58 PM
I’m not, the winning team did.
They feel the disparity was not one of Gala vs. McIntosh – they felt it was vast – hence their embarrassment.
Lol.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Wasn’t there a high school football coach a few years ago who was fired because, in the championship game no less, he won by “too many points”?
He played everybody short of the water boy…but was fired.
JetBoy on January 23, 2009 at 9:00 PM
But I bet at the end of the season, all the girls on the bad team get a trophy anyway.
Mallard T. Drake on January 23, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Yep, which is why you would never schedule a game against 4th graders. Which leads back to what I think is the only thing that the winning school may need to apologize about, which is scheduling to play this obviously overmatched team to begin with.
Granted, this happens at every school level. Check out scores of women’s high school and college games once in a while. 100-40 games between Tennessee and UConn vs some scrubb small school are pretty common.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Yeah, thanks very much. I learned how to live as an adult by being taught these lessons — not apologizing for success and learning from failure — when growing up.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 9:03 PM
For the last time. Yes, your value system is different then theirs. They strove to achieve a statistical mark, and then felt bad about it. What you think and what they think is different. We get that.
Sure.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:04 PM
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