Video: The surprisingly obligatory “school apologizes for winning 100-0″ clip
posted at 7:30 pm on January 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Via Breitbart. I dumped this into Headlines earlier hoping it’d crack double digits in comments. As I write this, we’re at 131 and counting. Debate’s raging over two issues, it appears: (1) Is it inappropriate for one team to run up the score if they really are that much better than the other? And (2) would we answer that first question the same way if these were two teams of boys? Answers: Yes and yes. Any other questions?
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Yes, I gathered from your first comment equating this to pro football that you see kids as shorter adults.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:06 PM
i presume the score was close to 50-0 at the half? the MOMENT the winning team did anything aggressive [presses, 3-point shots, etc.] in the 2nd half they crossed the good sport line — full stop.
/put the reserves in, make guards play as forwards and vice versa, ban shots from more than 10 feet away, make everyone shoot wrong handed — there’s a bajillion “fun” things to do in that situation — and MAYBE change back when they get to less than 40 away — if necessary …
//shrug
Buckaroo on January 23, 2009 at 9:08 PM
99-55, 91-43, 96-47, 96-37, 109-51, 85-40, 107-53. And that’s just this season. And I don’t recall hearing any stories about UConn feeling ashamed and offering to forfeit any of those games.
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Yes, UConn has grown-ups playing for $.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:10 PM
“Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 9:08 PM”
presuming math isn’t yer strong point, the WIDEST margin of victory there is just over HALF of this team’s margin.
/and one presumes the lady huskies/lady vols did use their reserves, etc. …
Buckaroo on January 23, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Which means what? They can’t feel ashamed anymore for beating the crap out of a lesser opponent, since they are playing for money?
Michael in MI on January 23, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Essentially correct.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:16 PM
They weren’t embarrassed, nor should they have been, until the PC police came a-knockin’ on their door. And as Esthier pointed out earlier, the players on the losing team aren’t complaining, they seem to have a better grasp on what it means to compete than the adults surrounding them.
clearbluesky on January 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I would be more insulted by someone taking it easy on me than by their beating me with a full effort.
mikeyboss on January 23, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Nor should they have. Their job is to compete and try to play well.
Spirit of 1776 on January 23, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Yes, the winning team were stupid for playing with starters up until the 4th quarter (the non-starters needed the practice.. that’s how you build a bench), but the subtext of the news report is far more disgusting. I.e. “strong people should apologize for their strength” and “the weak are better than the strong, by virtue of their weakness.”
I don’t feel sorry for the losing team. They don’t have a program, and have no business stepping onto the court with so little preparation. Would we feel bad for a 98 lb. man stepping into the ring with a heavyweight boxer? No, not if he could help it. We would consider him a fool for doing so, as we should.
spmat on January 23, 2009 at 9:52 PM
I just don’t care about this losing team.
If you step on the court you know how the game is played. Sorry,, this is so stupid. If I lost that bad I would just admit we are not a team. Instead of trying to pull down those kids that won,,, try harder to win for crying out loud!
So you lose 100-0!! Feel bad?? Why then put it on national TV??? I guess you don’t really feel that bad are are you a sore loser?? You focus on the other guy and demand he be a better winner by forfeiting the game,,, but you don’t feel you need to practice good sportsmanship yourself by losing with some grace and dignity???
If the losing team is only playing for fun,,, why then do they care they lost???
Just too much of this stuff going around. Life is hard,,, get used to it! It’s a game. You play to win! Maybe you need to start practicing to win and stop practicing to have fun!!
JellyToast on January 23, 2009 at 10:06 PM
I feel bad for the losing team, but really, they shouldn’t have been playing this caliber team. I’m sure they can find enough teams in the “sucky” league to play and be competitive.
And to continue with the US/Iraq War analogy of the 1990s, Iraq never should have “played” us. There’s a biblical principle to be found in this. Count the cost. Sit down and figure out, “Can we make this competitive?” If not, forfeit. If so, compete. That simple.
mauipundit on January 23, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Typical lib mentality, apologize for winning. No one should lose, no one should get their feelings hurt, blah blah blah. Here’s a thought: don’t be on a sports team if you can’t handle losing OR winning. The goal of a game is to keep scoring until the game is over. What a bunch of PC wimps our schools are indoctrinating our kids to be.
beachgirlusa on January 23, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Hmm. Ever coached kids? Ever played against the kids you coach? You always give them a challenge that’s a “stretch goal”, not one that’s unattainable at whatever skill level they have. Playing to cream them doesn’t teach them a thing — in fact, it makes you look like a bully, which I think is what the winning team looked like here.
The point about the game we’re discussing here is — did either team enjoy the game? Doesn’t sound like the losers did, in spite of their obvious graciousness in losing. Did the winners? Nobody interviewed them, for some strange reason. Maybe they were partying over the win — but I expect not.
You full court press players who don’t know how to handle it for — what? I don’t think full court pressing clueless players improves your team’s game. Nor does driving for the layup against kids who can’t defend.
Save that kind of stuff for practice. Once you know the tempo of the game, you adjust, to honor your opponent. It’s something a few people here have to learn — that a basketball game is not a metaphor for a war.
One of my brothers in law had a bachelor party thrown for him by his friends, and the highlight of the day was a rented gym, where we organized into rotating teams and played pickup games 3-on-3 for a set of small prizes. One of my other brothers in law went in for a layup and wound up with a broken leg from being fouled by a “serious competitor”. My son (who was playing at that point on the serious competitor’s team) said the guy had made the same move on him when he had earlier been on an opposing team. Turns out the guy was a church league player and was well known for his “serious fouls” when going up against an opposing scorer. That’s the closest thing the game we’re talking about reminds me of — “win at any cost”.
unclesmrgol on January 23, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Whatever happened to the “Slaughter Rule?” There used to be a rule that if one team scored so hard on another, the coach of the losers would forfeit to spare further “slaughter” and go out with a little dignity.
TMK on January 23, 2009 at 10:32 PM
I didn’t read all the way through but what I did see led me to this. A good number of the people that are advocating the bench the starters and play the bench are not saying throw the game or make the move just to make the other team feel better. This is the way I feel…and what most pro and college (except the SEC) coaches will do…you rerst the starters and play the bench. Number one you get your bench players valuable minutes so they may actually come into a game with little loss in ability. In college and high school some of your bench may be juniors and even some underclassmen, you are going to need them next year when your seniors graduate, and once again this is gametime not practice. Lastly what would be the story if your number one star player turns an ankle or blows out their knee in a 96 – 0 game and becomes unavailable for the big game next week against the crosstown rival. So yes I believe bench the starters and play the scrubs.
However…
I hate the everybody wins liberal way, it is one of the main causes in the downfall of America in my mind. It is one of the main reasons everybody feels entitled, “I can’t be a looser. Look at all my trophies from little league.” The loosing team still gets the lesson of we suck maybe we should practice when the starters get benched, “look they beat us with the scrubs.” It is not the same as the other team letting off and goofing off, but you should be pissed that proves you still have a competative spirit.
“America loves a winner.” – Patton
cobrakai99 on January 23, 2009 at 10:39 PM
The team that lost doesnt play to win, so it’s hard to see a HUGE problem here. It does seem overkill to pile on to 100 though. As someone else noted, the entire team could have practiced fundamentals rather than just the first stringers running up the score.
aikidoka on January 23, 2009 at 11:07 PM
It is a game people. WHO CARES HOW MUCH THEY LOST BY?
Why is it wrong to lose? Why is it long to lose BIG!?
They sucked that is it. The other team was better.
If they didn’t want to play after they realized they were getting shut out they should have forfeit.
THEY SHOULD HAVE FORFEIT IF THEY DIDN’T WANT TO LOSE IN BIG NUMBERS.
But they didn’t they played. They lost a game they played…oh well.
If the Kids got all butt hurt over it they need to grow the hell up and do it fast because the world isn’t fair the sooner a person learns that in life the sooner they can get their act together and become a productive person.
theguardianii on January 23, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Having been an athlete at the bad end of some large scores (although never this bad) I was always insulted when the other team stopped trying. That definitely feels worse than having someone run up a score.
exhelodrvr on January 23, 2009 at 11:47 PM
You can tell who is a jock and who isn’t. Who has played sports at a high level and who hasn’t.
Sports teams, coaches do not run up a score of 100 to 0. Fools do that. That coach should be forced to resign, or at least suspended.
First, the league should have a mercy rule, but without that, he could have put in the second or third string.
Once a game is “won”, you don’t keep your first string in, that is bush league…you won’t find pros doing that, you won’t find any college teams doing that, you will only find, once in awhile some low life bush league coach who doesn’t know any better, run up the score with the first string.
After the first half, the coach that is winning walks over and says, how about a forfeit, we divide up the team and play another half of fun basketball.
Coach did that several times in college. Pre-season we would play a team for practice, we would dominate them, and our coach would offer the suggestion. It was always taken with grace and we had a lot of fun, and maybe even helped the other players a little. They were no threat, so why not?
Most of us played on club teams, I played on the national team (this was water polo) so we weren’t “not competitors”, we knew how to play, how to win, and how to respectful.
This guy is no coach, and if my kid was on his team, I would yank him/her off the team.
right2bright on January 23, 2009 at 11:53 PM
This guy kept the first string in…he not only ran up the score, he was trying to humiliate the other team…this is High School, just High School…he is an idiot.
right2bright on January 23, 2009 at 11:55 PM
I think its more inappropriate to take whatever dignity the losing team might have had left by broadcasting their defeat to the entire nation and patronizingly offer to forfeit the game.
bingsha on January 23, 2009 at 11:55 PM
If you step on the court with another team, the other team has a responsibility to play its best, period.
If that can’t happen due to some factor, like putting a team that can’t play on the field/court, then it’s not sports any more, but something else.
Metro on January 23, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Good. Maybe because of what this guy did, idiotic ideas like this won’t be attempted any more.
Metro on January 23, 2009 at 11:57 PM
We are not talking war, but Patton didn’t go in and kill every enemy soldier.
Every real athlete, every quality athlete, would never purposely run up a score of 100-0. That’s the point, not the winning or losing, it is the unsportsman like conduct of running up the score.
Any one who thinks 100-0 is some kind of great win, has never been a winner themselves.
right2bright on January 23, 2009 at 11:59 PM
What ideas?
right2bright on January 24, 2009 at 12:00 AM
That’s right, they need to win, and play their best, that also includes be sportsman like, especially in High School.
Like I said, you can tell when someone has never been on a dominate team…when you are in that position, you have control of the score, there is no real purpose served by kicking someone when they are down. The fight is over…no athlete that I have ever met, of any note, would participate in something like this…only losers and bush league players.
right2bright on January 24, 2009 at 12:04 AM
This arguement is silly. If the rest of the league is supposed to lay down for this one team, that team is in the wrong league.
If you are going to support that thinking, at least give the more proficient girls a lawn chair to sit on and some lemonade to drink while out on the court. Or maybe we can hancuff all of their opponents to make sure things are fair and even, ignoring physical prowness and game skill that is.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Unsportsman like conduct is reason to forfeit…
right2bright on January 24, 2009 at 12:05 AM
That may be true, but the coach knew what was going to happen, and his game plan was to humiliate the other team. This is high school, more is taught then to destroy your opponents at all costs.
At half time the outcome was apparent, yet he kept his first team in.
No pro team would do that, we didn’t do that in the Olympics, no college team, but a few do things like this…and no real athlete would ever purposely do this, that isn’t what high school athletics is about.
right2bright on January 24, 2009 at 12:08 AM
I’m sorry, but, is any of this garbage serious?
If this is serious, then PLEASE, forget kids sports, and let them hang out on street corners. This kind of thinking is absolutely nauseating, and destructive to kids. For parents who think this way, please do like people did with their living room furniture once upon a time: Seal them in plastic, and make sure that they suffer NO wear and tear.
Sheesh!
seanrobins on January 24, 2009 at 12:25 AM
I think that this may be one of the most agonizingly gross discussions I’ve seen here in a long time.
Are you people out of your minds? Seriously.
seanrobins on January 24, 2009 at 12:28 AM
Putting mentally challenged kids in a sports competition with non-mentally challenged kids.
Metro on January 24, 2009 at 12:35 AM
What were they supposed to do, just play keep away for an entire half? Hand the ball over and say, “Oh, here you go. Sorry you can’t get the ball on your own?”
preposterous. If a team has NO chance of winning, they shouldn’t be trotted out on the court by some do-good morons so get their asses handed to them.
Metro on January 24, 2009 at 12:40 AM
You mean like when Israel puts the stank on Hamas?
There should either be a score that is considered skunk or the coach should throw in the towel.
It is way more shameful for a player , Soldier , or team to throttle back and not give 100% than is is to get creamed.
It is for the losing side to make that call.
TheSitRep on January 24, 2009 at 12:53 AM
As a high school basketball official here in Iowa, my first varsity contest I worked this year was a girl’s game between a ranked team and their visiting opponent competing in the schools very first basketball game. Final score was 100-6. Winning team could have easily won 140-0 had they wanted to. And believe it or not, this game was played with a lot of class. I had to commend both teams, their coaches, and especially their fans for recognizing this situation for what it was, and all doing their best keep it positive for everyone involved.
I really felt the winning coach had the most difficult task on this night. No one wanted to see him run up the score. But he also had to recognized that having his players “take a dive” to keep the score respectable would have been quite obvious, and equally insulting!
Goody2Shoes on January 24, 2009 at 1:01 AM
Sportsmanship aside, the winning coach missed a great opportunity to get some training value out of this. Nothing comes from racking up the score like this with your starters. The coach could have trained the team via self-imposed restrictions on their game-play.
Now, in terms of sportsmanship, putting a whoopin’ on the other team, in and of itself, is not unsportsmanlike. This is no different than tech-falling someone in wrestling or winning by TKO in other sports. As long as you’re not laughing or taunting your opponent, it’s all legit. Two things the losing team should consider: 1) maybe you shouldn’t play in such a league/conference if you’re afraid of getting beat that badly; 2) consider it an honor to have played such a good team.
Send_Me on January 24, 2009 at 1:07 AM
I’ve been on both sides of this type of score. Well, never 100-0, but you know! My teams from 7th through 10th grade would regularly beat our opponents by 40 or 50 points. Which is a lot in a 24 minute game. I remember one game during 7th grade against a big city school we were leading 34-4 just 2 minutes into the second quarter and my coach took all of us starters out of the game. The second and third team played the rest of the game and we won by 35 points, 54-19. We cheered on out teammates like they did for us. After the game our opponents shook our hands and congratulated us on being so dominant. Then we sat and watched their 8th grade team do nearly the exact same thing to our 8th graders. Nearly identical score, 57-18. Needless to say, our Varsity team wasn’t very good when we had those guys as Seniors providing the leadership and primary scoring options. Apparently, our coaching staff forgot to tell our Seniors to not shoot every time they touched the ball. So we finished the season with double digit losses, more losses in that one season than all the other seasons combined.
In this instance, the winning teams coach really screwed the pooch. Their players didn’t learn anything from this game, except that they are superior to that team. They should have taken out their starters and played the subs for the remainder of the game with the same game plan. No need to take the foot off the accelerator. The second teamers deserve the right to play hard and prove themselves against competition as well. Otherwise what is the purpose of having the second teamers other than someone for the starters to scrimmage against in practice.
rmel80 on January 24, 2009 at 1:12 AM
My wife has worked at a special needs private school, since 1986. She tells me there are so many ways they could have gotten around this embarrassment. They could have formed mixed teams, or just gotten together for a friendly basketball clinic for all involved?
Why didn’t the referees do something about this?
Bizarre
ToddonCapeCod on January 24, 2009 at 1:20 AM
Oh yeah, continuing to full court press is also a coaching no-no. You do that to set a tempo or challenge your opponents. They accomplished that at the end of the first quarter when their opponents were scoreless. No need to continue doing it the entire game. The coach could have done so with the substitutes for a few minutes just so they would have the in game experience of running the press and everyone would understand that. All in all, the coach blew it by not following some very basic game coaching fundamentals. Their team learned nothing useful here.
rmel80 on January 24, 2009 at 1:20 AM
I’ve said twice the coach did things I wouldn’t have done. But it happened.
Forcing this team to accept a loss that didn’t happen completely stupid.
“Yes, you are the best qualified, and we should hire you, but the fact that you are so qualified is not fair, you shouldn’t be so smart/skilled/capable and we are going to give the job to someone who’s not as smart/skilled/capable as you are, have a nice day”.
Punishing excellence is moronic. Why is there no critisism for the team that walked out on the floor unprepared? They played with class it appears, and were good sports, so I say good for them. I don’t think they were looking for a handout, asking for something they didn’t earn.
Is the to be the new standard when hiring a coach? “Win, but not by too much”.
Adversity reveals and builds character. Accepting charity does not.
It’s the wrong lesson.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 1:34 AM
Intentionally playing the first string all throughout the game is arrogance at its worst. Nobody would feel insulted if the second string was played for the second half of the game. The saying “speak softly, but carry a big stick” sums up the American ethos–this team spoke loudly and brandished a big stick. For that, they should be ashamed.
BryanS on January 24, 2009 at 1:35 AM
right2bright is totally right about this. When you know you are a dominant team you don’t have to prove you are a dominant team by doing this sort of thing. No one is saying that their team should stop trying. I don’t buy into the “lets make it fun” philosophy either. Winning is fun. Humiliating an overmatched opponent isn’t fun. Humiliating an equally matched opponent is pure ecstacy though. The substitutes could have brought the same outcome but no one would be able to blame them honestly. This is was bad coaching.
And quit making war references. Having been in sports competitions throughout my youth as well as my college years and fought in war as a soldier, I can assure you there is no similarity beyond the teamwork necessary to fulfill a mission or gameplan. Wars are fought, games are played. Try to get some perspective. Wars are life and death. Sports are just healthy competition.
rmel80 on January 24, 2009 at 1:37 AM
Where is the line drawn then? I promise you that no matter where you put that line, someone’s going to throw a hissy over it.
It’s a competition. If you don’t want to lose, then don’t compete. If you want to compete, be prepared to accept losses when they occur. Which these girls seem to have done, but it’s their “my baby can’t lose” parents and school administrators that are out of control.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 2:10 AM
My 8 yr old granddaughter plays chess in the gifted & talented program… I helped her learn by letting her keep even with me and win a few games (as did the rest of the family). The first time I beat her handily she had tears and an arms folded moment, after which, on her own conscience she walked over and apologized to me for being a “bad loser” ;)
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Recently during an in school tournament, she beat a GAT club member by taking away every piece before killing the game (she likes lining up the knocked off pieces for sure). We teased her for that, but did not tell her to never do it again.
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Still, the second stringers should have played the latter part of this B’Ball game. Just makes sense to me. Not to go easy on the other team, but to give the bench a turn on the floor.
RalphyBoy on January 24, 2009 at 2:30 AM
My daughter ended up a college scholarship soccer player, 90% paid for.
We had a net in the backyard where we worked on her game, some one on one stuff. I never let her win.
She complained once about not winning and I asked her if she wanted to me to let her win. She said “no”.
About 12 years old, I couldn’t stop her. And I would cheat, and still not stop her. She was a star of her high school team and went on to start as a Freshman of her college team, 3 game winners her first year out. You would have to be a soccer fan to understand how big that is.
The point is, I pushed my child to excell, and my case was successful. First college scholarship student in the history of my family. Soccer was a vehicle to a education, and paid for 90% of that. She’s a senior this year, first one in my direct lineage to graduate college.
How much of that would have happened if I patted my kid on the head after a poor game, the other team forfieting instead of taking the win they rightfully earned, and my kid not having something to work and strive for? None of it is the simple answer.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 2:55 AM
Posted too early, she would have graduated college if I had to second mortgage the house, but she had marketable skills that made that unessecary. Thank goodness.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM
darn it’s late
“unnecessary”. Nighty night…
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 3:05 AM
Has it occurred to anyone that the losing team might have scored ONE basket? Just one? What’s up with that? Unless they have been coached to “feel good about themselves” no matter their level of effort or dedication to the game! I suspect the latter given today’s educational environment…
sabbott on January 24, 2009 at 6:27 AM
The idea that this is about sportsmanship is as misdirected as one can possibly get – at least, in the way that it is implied in the title. There is an issue of sportsmanship, here, but not during the game play. The rules of sportsmanship are violated the minute a person/team goes into a competition in which they will lose so badly that the opponent is considered obliged to worry about how badly they’re feeling and adjust his level of play accordingly. It is entirely unsportsmanlike to put an opponent in that position because that affects their play well into the future – with them always, then, worrying whether their level of play is about to cause the opponent to break out crying at any moment.
Now, for pros, and top level competitions, taking starters out in lopsided matches has nothing to do with sportsmanship. That’s generally about money and the ability to continue to compete. If a starter is decent and needed (not breaking any records but a solid player), he will be taken out as soon as possible (without jeopardizing the win) in order to save his body. Every second on the field is a chance of a major injury.
Lastly, we love records – we still do, right? We love total domination as a display of true skills. People who are willing to compete and accept the risk of having a competitor totally overpower them some time are sportsmen. Those among them who are not good, but never make their opponents feel bad about having had played them (no matter the score) are good sportsmen.
To sum it up, crying during a game is very unsportsmanlike conduct. Period. And publicly crying about it afterwards is even worse.
I would just note that these girls on the losing team didn’t seem to take the loss badly at all. They all seemed fine to me. But, they will end up suffering from the very unsportsmenlike conduct of the adults, after the game was over – which includes the complaints from the losing side AND the offer of a forfeit by the winning side.
progressoverpeace on January 24, 2009 at 7:05 AM
–HogWild
Good story but somewhat irrelevant to the story at hand. Running the score up unnecessarily benefits no one and certainly helps none of the winning team’s girls get one step closer to a college scholarship. It only proves that the coach is an egomaniac freak, which high school basketball seems to attract an inordinate amount of for some reason. Normally even the most egotistical of coaches knows when its time to pull the starters and let the reserves who deserve some playing time get in the game.
Seriously, when you’ve dominated another team and they are demoralized, it does your team little good to keep pouring it on unnecessarily. And it’s not about being nice, it’s just simply not beneficial to any of your players.
Guster1 on January 24, 2009 at 7:59 AM
Pouring it on? The other team didn’t score ANY points! None! Nada! Zilch! They should feel totally humiliated and ashamed of themselves! They were owned! Zero effort! Hopeless and total losers!
sabbott on January 24, 2009 at 9:01 AM
These were the only games that I ever got in to play. Luckily we were really bad so I got into a lot of them….although usually with only a couple of minutes left.
TugboatPhil on January 24, 2009 at 9:10 AM
I agree with Guster1. That’s a great story about how to teach a child to improve their skills. However, it has nothing to do with sportsmanship and game play. Yes, you play to win the game, as Herm Edwards said. You don’t play to totally demoralize a weaker opponent. When you play an obviously weaker opponent you take out your starters and play everybody on the roster.
Either you have never played at all or you are someone that never played in a lopsided game. My high school football team lost to an opponent 42-6 and 27-0 in back to back years. That opponent played all their players and their subs scored a few touchdowns in the first meeting IIRC. The following year we beat that same opponent 24-0 and followed it my senior year with a 41-16 win after jumping off to a 41-0 lead at halftime. The last of our touchdowns was scored by a junior varsity player with a few minutes to go before the half. Myself and the other starters played just one down in the second half. Unfortunately, a punt that didn’t turn out so well. I, the longsnapper, snapped the ball over the punter’s head and out of the end zone for a safety. Oops! My bad. It wasn’t intentional but I didn’t lose sleep over it either; the game was well in hand. Some of my teammates wanted to run it up and try to score 70 or 80 points. One wanted a hundred! Needless to say, they were the sophomores on the team that were getting their first taste of Varsity action. They didn’t know any better. Thank goodness our coaching staff and upperclassmen did. It was an away game afterall, it could have gotten ugly trying to get back to the buses.
When you display good sportsmanship, you garner respect. Winning 100-0 with your starters pressing the opponents doesn’t show that you’re better any more than winning 65-10 with your second and third teamers. In fact, it just shows that your coach is an ass.
rmel80 on January 24, 2009 at 9:27 AM
More to the story: During the 27-0 loss my sophomore year the other team called an onside kick after going up 21-0, they recovered and scored. The next day, during the JV game our coach (the offensive line coach for the Varsity squad)got revenge by calling for an onside kick after we went up 30-0. We recovered and scored to make it 36-0. After the play, I told our coach that what we did was wrong. He insisted that turnabout is fair play. I said “No, coach. We just stooped to their level, that’s all.” Needless to say, when the head coaching job opened up after my junior year that coach didn’t get the job. Instead they gave it to the coach of the Freshman team.
rmel80 on January 24, 2009 at 9:36 AM
The only person that needs to apologize is the league that these teams are in. It is obvious that the quality of both teams was well known prior to tipoff.
Therefore, the person(s) that scheduled this match-up knew what the outcome would be, so why schedule it as part of season?
We are overcome by the outcome which was a for gone conclusion. Why?
For Decades, such BBall matches have been going on without the level of PCitis that this game has drawn. Anyone remember the Harlem Globetrotters? They would take on (actually contracted) local teams of the communities they were invited to perform in and of course win with spreads that are illegal to bet on in Vegas. What’s the problem – the better team won and did not quit until the game was over. The loosing team also did not quit, despite the score, they should be applauded for their dedication and perseverance – not be made out to be out classed losers.
MSGTAS on January 24, 2009 at 9:48 AM
EXACTLY
Jamson64 on January 24, 2009 at 11:05 AM
The winning team should have laid off and beat them only 50 to nothing. I am sure the losing team would have felt much better. /sarc
Jamson64 on January 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Running up the score is not unsportsmanlike, showboating would be. I went to a rather small academic based school where we got blown out a lot, but the final score never bothered me one bit. This is more whining “for the children”. Frankly lets just make them wear crash helmets until their forty and keep them in a bubble until they’re 25. And if the game was so lopsided then maybe they should question the athletic director of the losing squad. If you don’t want kids to be beat that bad, don’t put them in that situation, because the winning team shouldn’t be harangued for competing at the best of their ability, that’s what records are all about.
LevStrauss on January 24, 2009 at 11:36 AM
The losing team’s school should be ashamed and should either disband the team since they are wasting school resources or fire the coach who doesn’t know how to field even a rudimentary team. Indeed, the laws of chance would seem to require that even that doofus losing team would get at least a handful of points on the board. Even Charlie Brown got a couple of home runs for his team once and awhile. For libs who believe this is horrible that there was a wipeout, would you call for Mr. Obama to apologize for his victory on election day? If Mr. Obama had won 60-40, would you have him wear sackcloth and ashes and be ashamed of such a disporportionate victory?
While it is sad for the losing team to be humiliated, it is a chance for them to see maybe they should think about other activities than the one they have chosen, or to practice and redouble their practices until they are a decent team.
Another question for libs, if someone got a hundred on a test and another student got a ten or a zero, should the student who got a hundred apologize to the low scorers, in the name of good testmanship? Should the high scorers be forced to share some of his/her points in order to boost the self esteem of the low test scorers? Would you want to go to a doctor or other professional whose test scores were inflated in this manner?
eaglewingz08 on January 24, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I love how people are “well you must have never played sports”. Football, basketball, baseball, and one year I even tried out for the All Marine Golf Team. And would you believe that there were 8 players who scored better than I did during the qualification tournament, and the team captian had the audacity to take them over me? Well no kidding, I would have too.
To each their own. I helped my child achieve her goals by working with her to help her improve. Think she was never on the wrong end of a lopsided match? Of course she was, because she competed in sports. The level of satisfaction that is garnered when you come back the next year or in some cases two years later and defeat the team who drummed you before is quite high. It made the hard work and perserverance worth it.
Hog Wild on January 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Yes! You said that very well! I am in the martial arts (Karate and Judo). I don’t follow a lot of other sports. I like to play, but I never cared to watch much.
I have always loved sparring or doing mat work with much larger opponents. I do not want someone I am sparring with in a match(not talking about training,, there is a difference)
I have never wanted my opponent to take a dive for me. If I lose badly, I lose badly. A fake win, even if it is one point, is NOTHING!
I have always said there is no fun in fighting someone your own size or smaller. It’s the bigger guys who are the challenge and the best reward.
If the winning coach wanted to tone things down and let the losers get a few baskets,, good for him. If the winning coach wants to crush the losers(in points I mean),, THAT IS THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED. Don’t go on the court if you are looking for charity. Go to the soup kitchen!
Earn your points! if you earn them,, they are all yours! No one can then take them and your pride is real! IF THEY ARE GIVEN TO YOU, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO CELEBRATE. You have earned NOTHING! You came with nothing, you left with nothing!
JellyToast on January 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM
I agree. There is the satisfaction of winning and giving your all, but if a league team is playing a school of 20 students, girls who have learning disabilities, I think the idea was to encourage these girls to be more competitive and enthusiastic about the sport. Giving the superior school’s benchwarmers some practice time would have accomplished more than letting their starters completely run circles around these girls just to show off.
No one is saying a victory should have been handed to the losing team or that everyone should have won; just that there was a way of winning that, from a Christian school, should have been more gracious and not left the losers, who were obviously inferior, completely demoralized and beaten.
chunderroad on January 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Don’t go on the court if you are looking for charity.
They weren’t looking for charity. They lost badly and accepted their crushing defeat. Happy now?
chunderroad on January 24, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Boo-hoo.
It’s life. Deal with it. And the winning coach who wants to forfeit the game should be fired.
My daughter played for a softball team that creamed everyone. During a playoff game, they did this. Put in their second string players, goofed off etc. when they were ahead by 15.
The opposing team got momentum when they were within 5. By the time our coach put in the first string, our team was bored, the other team was pumped. We lost.
Aside from that, only a GIRL’S team would whine about getting beat, and only a PUSSY would try to forfeit a game they won.
Crab Pot on January 24, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Clearly a team that operates by the credo “We don’t play to win, we play to have fun” is only capable of playing other teams using the same credo.
Of course, had the DAGBT been denied a match with the Covenant School, the DAGBT coach would have complained of having hurt feelings. The sissy even ~looked~ like she was about to cry. Yes, there goes a fine role model for a basketball team.
FierceGuppy on January 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Both sides were wrong. The one for being so piss poor and the other for capitalizing on that fact.
At least the winning team had the class to admit they were wrong and publicly apologize. Class act.
Now it is the losing school’s turn to apologize to their students for running such a piss poor varsity basketball program.
watson007 on January 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM
DING DING DING!
Mark Jaquith on January 24, 2009 at 5:52 PM
“seanrobins on January 24, 2009 at 12:25 AM”
missing.
the.
point.
The objective is to win the game. they accomplished that with their first basket. the twin objective is to be a good sport. they get a massive FAIL for the exact reasons I outlined, none of which you even remotely refuted …
/hoping like heck you aren’t actually a parent, also that my kids won’t ever be in a situation where they would be subjected to your crappy “coaching philosophy”
Buckaroo on January 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM
What is this sportsmanship which you speak of? I don’t see a problem with running up the score. One team was very good and one was terrible.
Life is hard, making the losing team feel good by wanting to forfeit is a bad lesson.
Before I get flamed, I don’t have kids nor am I involved in any youth sports programs.
Mooseman on January 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM
“Mooseman on January 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM”
my thesis has been simple — at halftime, with the score 40-0 [or whatever it was] the winning team could have simply used only its least experienced reserves, stopped pressing completely, or any of another dozen ideas to ease off the throttle. it would surely not have changed the outcome of the game, it would have, however, demonstrated a LOT more character on that side of the ball …
Buckaroo on January 24, 2009 at 8:33 PM
But that’s not the point. At halftime, with the score 40-0 and it being pretty clear that the winning team was not going to ease up on the throttle (which is fully their prerogative, as sportsmen) the losing coach was obliged to say to her team, “It looks like this is going to continue. Do you want to keep playing or should we forfeit the game now?” If her team was crying and said that they didn’t want any further embarrassment, then she should have forfeited. If her team said that they didn’t mind, then play continues and no one complains about the better team not easing up. That is sportsmanship. It is encumbent on the loser to stop the game if they cannot handle it, emotionally, not on the winner to ease up.
There is no shame in admitting that one is not up to competing on a certain level. There is shame in pretending that one is, when it is painfully obvious that it is untrue. There is nothing but shame in complaining afterwards.
progressoverpeace on January 24, 2009 at 8:43 PM
we’re not gonna agree here — being a gracious winner is EQUALLY IMPORTANT as being a gracious loser — and 50% of the teams invovled in this game failed that test …
Buckaroo on January 24, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Yes, we disagree on this. For me, being a gracious winner is all about not taunting during play and being decent to the loser AFTER the competition. During competiton, though, people should always play their best or not play.
As I said many times before, teams as bad as Dallas Academy should restrict themselves to scrimmaging (which is still playing) until they are good enough to provide some competition and not be a burden to their opponents.
progressoverpeace on January 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM
In softball they used to have a “Slaughter Rule” to prevent an inferior team’s players from being embarrassed. But slaughter was too harsh, so it became the “Mercy Rule.” But even “Mercy” was too un-PC to be used. No one should need mercy. We’re all entitled to feel like we are champions, even if we are awful and haven’t trained, sweated, and suffered like the other team’s players. So we are now using the “Run-Ahead-Rule”…pretty descriptive and no one has to feel bad. Yeah, right!
C’mon, that’s not how the world works. COMPETE America! Or lose to the Japanese, Chinese, and Indians in global markets and to the Chinese, Russians, and Muslim terrorists on the battlefield. Too many Americans want to wish away the realities of the world. Competition is reality, and losing can be very brutal. Maybe that’s a tough lesson to learn, but not learning it will be much tougher with more profound and lasting consequences.
PolicyWonk on January 24, 2009 at 9:48 PM
The point was that it was obvious how bad Dallas Academy was. The other team got on the court and behaved horribly. It was like playing horse with your 5-year-old niece. You let her think she’s winning a little and make sure she’s having fun. You don’t shoot 5 (H-O-R-S-E) baskets in a row, turn around to her and go, “YOU SUCK LITTLE GIRL! EAT SHIT!”
chunderroad on January 25, 2009 at 1:11 AM
Look, these are KIDS! This ain’t the friggin pro’s. The coach should have been rotating in his lesser players so they could get the playing time they otherwise won’t later get in the year when games count. In the pro’s it’s all about winning and a blow out is reasonable. Kids are different. This story is nothing less than an over zealous coach who cares about THEMSELF more than the job at hand. To TEACH their students more than just the sport itself but how to behave like mature adults. Sports is more than winning. It’s also about winning with class. Something the pros lost long ago……F&&kin typical shameful behavior these days. That coach is a self involved prick.
Ozprey on January 25, 2009 at 1:43 AM
We don’t know that they behaved horribly. All we know is that they played strong and fairly from start to finish.
But this is the point. They are not 5 year olds, so stop treating them like they are. They are high school girls. People in high school go to the Olympics. High school competitions are supposed to be real competitions, not love fests or opportunities to just have fun. That’s what intra-mural sports and scrimmages are for.
Now, that would be taunting during play and acting badly afterwards. Go read my post again, because I specifically said that that was bad sportsmanship. Nothing in the articles said that the winning team did anything but play hard and fair. They made no mention of fouls or taunting or anything of the sort. The only complaint was that they kept their starters in and played a full press for the whole game or something. As long as it was by the rules, good for them.
I also explained that, if the losing team felt bad, they could have forfeited and stopped things, or asked the other coach to use his 3rd stringers and if he said “No,” then forfeit. They didn’t.
This is high school. These are not 5 year olds. It was league play. If they’re not up to the competition then they can scrimmage (my 50000th time saying it) but it is unfair to place restraints on winners because of the sensitivities of the losers. Do your best, be fair and treat people as equals if they are sharing the competitive field. That is always the best policy. If they need your help with something, they can ask for it.
And I don’t think these girls would be delighted at being portrayed as 5 year olds. Think about it.
progressoverpeace on January 25, 2009 at 2:07 AM
They should apologize that they didn’t beat them 200-0.
Grafted on January 25, 2009 at 2:17 AM
It ain’t worth winning if you don’t win big.
fusionaddict on January 25, 2009 at 8:26 AM
Folks… if you view the video, it appears that the two schools have worked out the difficulty between them. Covenant School apologized, and should have. Dallas Academy feels better after the apology.
Judging from the story, it sounds like the coach at Covenant thought “I wonder if we can hit 100?” and kept his starters in until he reached his goal. It was thoughtless. It’s probably going to take him several years to live down the embarrassment at his own school.
There are no wider cultural issues here. End of issue. We can all go home.
philwynk on January 25, 2009 at 8:28 AM
What doe we expect in a world where wars are to be fought with proportional response?
Jamson64 on January 25, 2009 at 12:19 PM
The winning coach has been fired:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28845363/
Deservedly so. It’s a pure sportsmanship issue and the coach was blatantly on the wrong side of it.
MikeknaJ on January 25, 2009 at 10:47 PM
I never portrayed them as 5 year olds. They were obviously quite unevenly matched or the issue of starters and a full court press would not be an issue. The winning team’s coach has been fired, so it seems the sportsmanship argument had some merit.
chunderroad on January 25, 2009 at 11:07 PM
I disagree. It was only one game. No second chance? Forgiveness? Redemption? A chance to make amends? No one was harmed, no crime was committed. The principal or athletic director couldn’t have sat the coach down and say “don’t do that anymore”?
This man just lost income for winning. Think about that.
Hog Wild on January 25, 2009 at 11:24 PM
Man. This is some different world. Are these high schoolers or elementary school kids? And even if they were in elementary school this would be crazy. So one team took an awful beating? Big friggin’ deal.
I guess they started making kids out of glass at some point.
progressoverpeace on January 26, 2009 at 3:50 AM
Wow, for a conservative site, there sure are a bunch of whiny entitlement-minded losers posting on here. I thank God that General George Patton was commanding the 2nd Army instead of you morons who think these girls shouldn’t have given their best against a weaker team.
If I was on the team that lost, I’d be embarrassed, no, humiliated. NOT that I’d lost 100-0. But that this stupid story has gained national attention and that public pressure is trying to pile guilt on the better team for… being better.
So next up, we have those inane “everybody’s a winner!” basketball tournaments, where everybody gets a trophy just for showing up? How is this different philosophically from liberal economic policies designed to redistribute the wealth? It’s taking from those who work hard and deserve victory and giving to those who don’t.
If these girls are really that fragile (which in interviews they do not seem to be), then the people at fault for this are the ones who scheduled the game, and the coach who didn’t throw in the towel when his team was getting drummed. But the whining and blame-throwing, and ESPECIALLY the national media exposure for something as STUPID as this is doing absolutely nothing to boost these girls’ self-esteem.
Beo on January 26, 2009 at 10:45 AM
According to the box score and the coaches comments, he did substitute in his bench, switched to zone, milked the clock, and took only 1 3-pointer in the 2nd half.
Too bad the darned girls on his team kept putting the ball thru the hoop. How dare they do something like that in a basketball game?
The same team that won 100-0 lost a game 82-6 a few years before. Did their opponent have to apologize?
hawksruleva on January 27, 2009 at 11:41 AM
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