March for Life, 22 Weeks, and Roe
posted at 10:58 am on January 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Today, the Left celebrates the 36th anniversary of Roe v Wade, while the pro-life movement mourns the deaths of over 44 million aborted babies. In Washington DC, March for Life will protest the Roe decision as well as the widely-expected Freedom of Choice Act that Barack Obama promised to push through Congress. The Anchoress also anticipates that Barack Obama will end the Mexico City policy by executive order as early as today and restore American funding of abortions overseas.
Today, I’ll interview Angel Manuel Soto, the director of a new film, 22 Weeks, about a true story of an abortion and what happened when the child survived. Joining us will be the mother, Angele, to give her perspective on Roe and the abortion industry. The film is now playing in selected theaters throughout the country, but can also be purchased on DVD now. The website has a lot more information, and a trailer:
I’ll keep an eye out for news on life issues today, but be sure to tune in to The Ed Morrissey Show to catch this interview.
Blowback
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Outside of my immediate family, almost every Catholic I know, including one of my parish priests, voted for Obama and believes that abortion is a personal issue and should not be made illegal.
jay12 on January 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Thankfully, Obama has not kept his “first thing I’d do in office” pledge to that planned parenthood meeting. It will be interesting to see if that is forthcoming. If he does that & the don’t ask, don’t tell…Will see how much goodwill is still out there. I doubt much
brotherbell on January 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Strange dissonance – the party that is always speaking of human rights does not countenance them for the most needy humans.
Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM
The genocide of the unborn. This is a sad day for pro-lifers. We have a guy who loves abortions and killing those that survived a botched abortion. When will the Catholic Church promote life and kick parishioners out who are pro-death of a child? They need to heavily promote life especially through the priests, some of whom are very cowardly.
jencab on January 22, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Can’t find the movie on IMDB… probably going to buy a copy though, after watching the trailer.
Ugly on January 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
god, I can’t even watch the trailer
tomas on January 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Revolting. I’d find a new parish to attend as quickly as possible. Or bring it up at a parish discussion to spotlight the pastor’s views in front of the parishioners.
Darbraun on January 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
I just gave my daughter a big hug. I had the chance to abort her, but I couldn’t. I’m eternally grateful that I was too chicken to go to the local PP office… and I’ve been against abortions period since the day she was born (6 years ago next Tuesday).
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
brotherbell on January 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
He can’t, because the Freedom of Choice Act he said he’d sign never made it into committee, much less into a signable bill. And apparently the laws it would reverse are in so many separate bills that he can’t do it by executive order. That was all so much blather. The Mexico City order, however, is probably toast.
Quisp on January 22, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I feel like the abortion issue really demonstrates how effective sloganeering is. Many Christians believe life begins at conception, and science, I think, cannot tell us at what stage of development we should begin protecting the life because – well, it has no idea what telltale sign to even look for to say “this is a person now”. Thus the position that all abortions should be prohibited is probably one of the most logically and factually sound positions in all of conservatism. I’ve never heard a good refutation of it. Yet the left is perfectly willing to fight against it, and with emotions fully charged, to protect a “womans right to choose.”
kc8ukw on January 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM
You save the whales
You save the seals
You save whatever’s cute & squeals
But you kill “that thing” that’s in the womb
Would not want no baby boom.
(Steve Taylor, Sparrow Records)
jgapinoy on January 22, 2009 at 11:13 AM
We should all begin a counter campaign by making all reference to FOCA as the Funding of Coerced Abortions Act.
Your child can be manipulated to have an abortion without your notification.
Planned Parenthood will protect the pedophile rapist who impregnated her.
When there are complications from the procedure, they won’t have to tell you.
Your child could die. A child rapist will still walk free.
In the name of “choice.”
Oppose the Funding of Coerced Abortions Act.
BKennedy on January 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM
I am not Catholic myself but married into an Irish Catholic family who mostly consider themselves good practicing Catholics.
However some of those same people were able to dismiss the abortion issue as not mattering to them and vote for Obama. They mouth the words “of course I would never have an abortion but blah, blah, blah” These are the same people who NEVER ate meat on Friday when it was forbidden, who think it a sin to miss a Day of Holy Obligation.
I know they would be angry if I called them “chinese menu Catholics” but IMO that is what they are. Apparently along with being born & bred Catholics they are also born & bred Democrats.
katiejane on January 22, 2009 at 11:17 AM
I used to be proudly pro-choice. Then I began to realize the only ‘choice’ respected by abortion zealots is killing your potential human life. I asked one of them if it was OK to kill a baby which was delivered but still connected by the cord and he said “if that’s legal”. I didn’t need to keep going up the ladder to speaking first words or drivers license to know we were creeping up the ladder from a medical procedure to infanticide and eventually to outright murder. The sonogram is the abortion zealot’s worst enemy. Gee, that “clump of cells” looks and acts suspiciously human. Another clincher was hearing abortion zealots grapple with clunky analogies like “parasites” to justify killing the unborn. It seems to get creepier and creepier.
Like Israel, I almost ended up on the wrong side of this issue by listening to so-called experts.
I’m still not sure how to deal with this issue in the legal system due to the conflict of rights and uncertainty, but I’m positive the issue is turning some people into anti-human monsters.
Beagle on January 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM
I find it amazing that, in this era of fiscal hardship, our new President is able to find the money to fund the export of child-killing overseas.
I don’t think we need to spend the money. The Chinese and Indians in rural areas have already shown us a tried and true technology, which costs nothing, which they use to assure their choice of having a male child; the method is called post-natal abortion.
The rest of the world can easily follow the same method. In the cities, where no fields exist to discard the unneeded female babies, artfully painted dumpsters could easily take their place. The content of the dumpsters could be recycled into fertilizer. Given Mr. Obama’s legislative record in Illinois, he should have no trouble supporting this easily implemented method.
unclesmrgol on January 22, 2009 at 11:19 AM
This is just another example of the hypocrisy, moral rot and phoniness of the left and their captured institutions. Such a position by the Catholic Church (and I’m speaking of the church as a contemporary social entity . . . not the Roman Catholic religion) is irreconcilable and attests to its hedonistic, self-serving nature.
rplat on January 22, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Katiejane, I get the same thing in our evangelical church. I do not understand how anyone with belief in God in Christ could vote for someone who not only approves abortion, but plans to pay for them throughout the world. Not pay for food, mind you, but for abortions. Mr. President Bush, you are so classy, and you will sorely be missed.
TimothyJ on January 22, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Anna on January 22
Hugs to you and your daughter. And a prayer of thanks to God for touching your heart six years ago. Chicken? Don’t think so.
SKYFOX on January 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Laura Ingraham is doing an interview right now with the mother! catch it!
katy on January 22, 2009 at 11:26 AM
The most pro-life President ever, preceded by & succeeded by fanatically pro-abortion Presidents.
jgapinoy on January 22, 2009 at 11:28 AM
When those parishioners stop tithing or leave the church?
Sounds like the Catholic church is just glad to have any members if they have become so accomodating as to allow their followers to do and practice whatever they want…
Geministorm on January 22, 2009 at 11:31 AM
I overheard my wife talking with a mutual friend the other day. She’s an interesting person … very left wing politically and a self-professed pagan. She’s also a very sweet and caring person. I don’t agree with her on many things, but I like her.
She got pregnant unexpectedly … she was on the pill – takes it religiously – but even so. Her boyfriend, when she told him, simply asked her when she was going to have “the procedure.” When she told him she wasn’t sure she could, he had a panic attack and had to be comforted like a child.
Thing is, she had an abortion before. She was raped as a teenager. She told my wife that that abortion still haunts her. She dreams about what the person might have looked like. Even in those horrible circumstances, she still suffers from making a choice I think most people would make.
Abortions are not the easy thing the pro-choice crowd wants you to think they are. They’re awful … and they may well do more harm than good to the mother, even considering the difficulties of birth. The inevitable truth for those that have had an abortion is that something that was alive is now dead at your hand; something that was only defined out of its humanity by the barest of semantic distinctions. That hurts. Or at least, it hurt one caring person I know, driven to the clinic by her own mother.
TheUnrepentantGeek on January 22, 2009 at 11:34 AM
I refuse to watch even the vid clip, I can’t do it.
All those babies, all those little lives snuffed-out.
I look at my own tots and see what incredible little people they are; smart, goofy, jumping out of their socks in excitement when we get to order pizza. My little boy who still asks if he can cuddle with momma.
Bishop on January 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Amen Anna.
Other note. What is bothering me right now is my fairly Conservative Democratic friends here in NC. They are not even keeping up with the news now that B Hussien Obama has been elected. I asked an office mate (Pro-life Dem) about the funding and Freedom of Choice Act. Clueless. Any time I even mention a cabinet pick, I’m just a conspiracy theorist. They don’t even know what they’ve voted for.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Barack Obama made a number of statements during the campaign that show he will be the most radically pro-abortion President ever. For example, he stated “The first thing I would do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act”. This bill would, in effect, eliminate all restrictions on abortion, making abortion readily accessible, no matter the stage of the baby’s development. It would also open the door for taxpayer-funded abortion. It would also require healthcare facilities that accept federal funds to provide abortion. This would include all of the Catholic facilities.
In his most revealing vote ever, as a state senator from Illinois, he stood in opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, a bill that provided protections for babies who survived abortion. He was against this bill because he believed it caused an “undo burden” on the woman and medical staff. His “burden” means that delivered and living babies are left to die without care. Babies who have survived abortions have lived. I would encourage you read about Gianna Jessen at http://www.giannajessen.com. Gianna, survived an abortion. Her story is a testament to the human spirit and faith in God.
Asked at a forum when he believes life begins, Barack Obama says he cannot answer, as it is “above his pay grade”. Based on his actions, it seems that life doesn’t even begin outside the womb.
He also said “ I’ve got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.” Punished with a baby?
Now if he believes that his daughter carrying a baby to term is a punishment, and he believes she should have an abortion to avoid this punishment, he thinks that abortion is a good thing. He supports abortion. If he supports abortion with his words and deeds, then he is Pro-Abortion.
When it comes to abortion, Barack Obama is an absolutist.
joepub on January 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM
And then there are jokers like this:
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 11:38 AM
How much of the money that goes to PP could be used to improve life rather than end it?
Your slimy attacks are not welcome here. Please, go and post on one of the liberal sites where your idiocy is welcome.
Jvette on January 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Seriously. The zealots simply don’t understand the “grown-up” thing to do in order to be heard – tarnishing the rest of us with their childish acts.
I hope the law hits him with a heavy hammer for being a moron.
Darbraun on January 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Hey, Dude! Isn’t it odd that liberals can sit in trees to stop a new building, put spikes in trees that kill lumbermen, throw eggs at a President, burn down new homes to save the enrivonment, kill babies as they are being born, and it is never commented on. But let one deranged person target an abortion clinic, and it gets splashed all over the news. That’s not what we are like, but that’s how we get portrayed in the msm.
Think about it for a minute. 40,000,000 babies dead, and a few people have targeted abortion clinics. Maybe we should take a lesson from the liberals and close them down.
TimothyJ on January 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Pretty sure he was slamming Dems. They’re always talking about human rights overseas, and yet unborn babies are the most needy humans of them all.
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM
I consider myself agnostic and I really don’t see how the murder of unborn babies is a “religious” or “personal” issue. Murder is wrong, period. While I definitely don’t see eye to eye with Evangelicals on a lot of issues, they were instrumental in the abolition of slavery and one day I hope they are victorious in outlawing abortion. If that day ever comes I have no doubt future generations will look back on government sanctioned abortions with the same horror and bewilderment as we now look back on slavery.
Bill Scrunty on January 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Take a class in reading comprehension, and get back to me with your apology.
Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM
Your people keep the outward signs of Catholic faith, but do not keep the inward ones. They choose their works selectively. I still don’t eat meat on Friday (a minor act to facilitate memory of Jesus’ sacrifice), and I go to Mass (to gather in His Name as the Bible tells us to do), but there are other requirements, such as that of an informed conscience, and no Catholic conscience is informed until it has taken the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and examined and cross-referenced both (which is easy to do, since the Catechism references Scripture to justify the Church’s positions).
To them, like the Scribes, their faith is strong, because they follow the outward signs of it, but they fail to understand and follow the core precepts:
If the above true, then your position that an anti-abortion position is factually sound and logical is — unsound.
Lucky for you, your statement above is not true. Science deals with facts and logic. Fact: A fertilized human egg has the DNA of a unique person — it is the starting point of personhood. Left to nature, there is a very high probability that this person will go through all the phases of development, including birth — which is why abortion exists, in order to shift the probabilities in the other direction, because, by our laws, only a person who has been born is protected by law from death at the hands of another (except in Illinois — but who ever said law follows logic?). The fact that the embryo/fetus is another person may also be scientifically illustrated by taking tissue from that embryo/fetus; when implanted into another human being (except for an identical twin), the tissue is apt to be rejected.
There is plenty of science indicating when an individual’s life starts, but the abortion folk don’t care — they want their actions to be legal.
unclesmrgol on January 22, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Hope you don’t mind I responded for you!
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Misunderstandings occur. Let’s try and be patient and gentle with one another. We have so much work to do.
jay12 on January 22, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Maybe when babies are aborted because genetic tests prove they will be gay, or female, or pro-choice, liberals will finally realize what they are doing.
joepub on January 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM
TimothyJ, I’m not for any act of civil disobedience that deliberately harms or threatens harm to others.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 11:51 AM
They haven’t yet figured out that their key demographics are the ones doing the aborting, while conservatives are having larger families, so I don’t hold out much hope.
Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 11:52 AM
That’s not a problem for them, they just keep importing more faster than conservatives can make babies.
Bill Scrunty on January 22, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Listening to this lady on Laura Ingraham now. WOW!
I am PRO-LIFE / ANTI-ABORTION, whatever you want to call it.
In my opinion, a womans right to do whatever she wants with her body, stops the second has unprotected sexual intercourse. She (and the male) made a decision to act in an irresponsible way. Killing a baby isn’t justification for an irresponsible act.
PappaMac on January 22, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM
After reading it again, I think you are right so I extend my humblest apology to Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM for my over sensitivity on this day. I read into it the tired old diatribe that pro-life advocates only care about the unborn and then hate the child after birth.
Jvette on January 22, 2009 at 11:58 AM
No problem, some of my comments are a bit obtuse.
Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Dude! I didn’t say anything about violence, but I do think that civil disobedience is warranted. It has been years since I last saw a march against abortion. I understand that there might be one today? Do you remember the black lady who refused to give up her seat in the bus to a white man? That was an act of civil disobedience. And she was absolutely right! Why aren’t lawyers suing municipalities that have imposed free speech restrictions on distances of protest at those clinics? Why aren’t the streets clogged with marchers walking down the street at those clinics? If we haven’t done anything, then let’s just keep our mouths shut and ignore the infanticide (baby murder!).
TimothyJ on January 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM
I try hard to never make excuses for people who do radical things, but when one considers the madness of the abortion industry and sheer volume of life taken. Well, the most passionate only need to be a bit unstable I’d say, to go over the edge.
It’s funny though, the Left used to love to beat on missile silos with hammers, accepted Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground almost without comment. The only real radical stories worth talking about if you’re MSM is crazy Conservatives who attack abortion clinics.
I guess we all have our point of no return. Analogy: I’m driving to the range to shoot my weapons. Along the way, I see someone attacking an abortion clinic. I would absolutely intervene and even use my weapons if I had to, to protect the abortion clinic workers. A week later, a bill passes and now my weapons are illegal for me to own. I would probably die as the authorities tried to take them from me.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Outside of my immediate family, almost every Catholic I know, including one of my parish priests, voted for Obama and believes that abortion is a personal issue and should not be made illegal.
jay12 on January 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Every Catholic you know, including the parish priest, should be ashamed of themselves.
Killing is a “personal” issue? I think not.
Rightwingsparkle on January 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Gut-wrenching. Oh my.
Matticus Finch on January 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Vashta.Nerada on January 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Thank you. I am actually a very good reader LOL, no excuse for that mistake though. As I said, just expecting someone to go there, thought it was you and went off half cocked.
Jvette on January 22, 2009 at 12:04 PM
I read into it the tired old diatribe that pro-life advocates only care about the unborn and then hate the child after birth.
Jvette on January 22, 2009
Since caring for the unborn is not an evil unto itself, the liberal pro-death crowd must make it evil by attaching some following evil or ascribing evil motives or intent. An old trick, but still effective with those who keep their brains in neutral.
SKYFOX on January 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM
These Catholics, the priests included, should be excommunicated. Explaining away murder of the unborn – the most vulnerable in the eyes of God – as a matter of conscience in the name of political expediency is heresy.
D2Boston on January 22, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Exactly! A middle-aged man like myself cannot “really” be concerned with the unborn out of my love for innocent life. My real motive is oppessing women.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:10 PM
In China and India, female fetuses are aborted all the time, to the point that now the sex ratio is skewed. The increased availability of sonograms means that the Chinese can snuff baby girls before they’re born, instead of after.
It could be called genocide, in that a certain group of people is being selected for death. And no, I’ve never heard any leftists express any concern over this.
juliesa on January 22, 2009 at 12:11 PM
It really is madness. Selfish madness.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM
hawkdriver, the left as a whole never did cotton to the likes of Ayers, or to nuts like the Symbionese Liberation Army either. Nor has the right adopted wholesale the tactics of Eric Rudolph, thankfully. As to how incendiary rhetoric can foster such violence is another matter.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 12:14 PM
St. Paul said that those who receive the body and blood of Christ bring condemnation to themselves. They will account for their sins to the King of Kings, the Supreme Judge.
Jvette on January 22, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Maybe I should quit for today, don’t seem to be able to read or write well.
Jvette on January 22, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Abortion is one of those true Antichrist related things.
The only way you will see abortion on demand end, is when this world is over. It is the hallmark of evil in creation.
Hening on January 22, 2009 at 12:22 PM
The Left love those people. Openly. Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright are both prime time now and in the news and in a good light. DU and KOS have always ran threads justifing bandana wearing thugs who attack recruiting centers and show up at G8 summits. Indiegate and SF Gate speak about them with near reverence. And the ELF property destroyers and PETA b*tches with spray cans shooting little old ladies wearing fur.
Please!
Even the “respectable” MSM. I think their silence on any of those characters or issues is deafening.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Funny way to word that, I don’t think he was accepted at all.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:27 PM
hawkdriver, it should be noted that Rudolph in all likelihood did not survive purely on his own while he was a fugitive from justice.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM
As to “wholesale”, it’s true enough that there are abortion protesters who have deliberately tried to scare away women from clinics and that some abortionists have been stalked and otherwise threatened.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 12:35 PM
I watched a show about John Wilkes Booth’s escape and capture last night. There were maybe a handful of people who willingly helped him (and a few who unknowingly did). Does that mean he had Confederate suuport? No. Same with Rudolph. A person or two helping him does not give you evidence that many on the right supported him.
On the other hand, evidence can be seen for more widespread support for the Weather Underground and like-minded groups. By widespread, I’m meaning more people than one can count on their two hands.
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Beautiful story. My mother has a similar one, though I believe she has had an abortion. She has said often that after knowing what was inside her and seeing me (her first born), everything changed.
Sounds like he’s the only one who got hurt. Actions like that make people candidates for the Darwin Awards, not heroes.
And yet one can’t help but get the impression that, that was exactly what you were trying to imply here. Your “incendiary” comment that follows would further imply you’re trying to blame this on us, which is stupid considering the things the Left has said for the last eight years about Bush, including the assassination videos and other merchandise.
Two can play this game, and you really don’t want that.
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM
A few years ago my Fiance flippantly told me one day “Oh yeah, by the way, I had an abortion last week”. She never even told me she was pregnant. I had no say in the matter.
I ended the relationship over it much to her shock and surprise. She coldly killed my son / daughter. There’s no fixing something like that.
One of the biggest problems with abortions, besides the obvious killing of an innocent child, is the fact that the father has no say whatsoever. If a pregnant woman decides to keep a baby the father can’t petition for an abortion and will be forced to pay child support. If the woman wants to abort the child the father can not petition to stop the murder. Either way it is unfair to men’s reproductive rights.
Guardian on January 22, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Yeah, Ayers and his wife didn’t either. Your point?
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Oh….poor thing, how awkward for you. Did you forget the way the right learned their lesson after civil disobedience undid segregation in the south and pushed women’s rights into the forefront? They spent the last 40 years demonizing any and all people who took to the streets, peacefully or even with civil disobediance as radical anti-American commie traitors. Immnigrants in the streets? Demonize! Gays protesting Prop 8 Demonize! Folks pissed off at police brutality Demonize! After a while, when you demonize everyone who stands up for their rights in a society, that society stops producing people who really believe organized protest is a viable option. And now, you’re even being talked down by people who agree with you on abortion when you’re proposing probably the only viable solution for your cause at this point, mass protest and civil disobedience. Sorry, maybe you need to speak with those folks on your side of the ideological aisle who’ve been taught that American’s don’t dissent, we follow.
DeathToMediaHacks on January 22, 2009 at 12:38 PM
I agree. It’s BS. People then counter with, “well, the man had a choice when he had sex,” but that’s also true of the woman unless she was raped. Why should we be held to a lesser standard?
How is that equality?
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:41 PM
As long as there is tax-funded abortion, we are all to blame.
To answer her question: I would carry the baby to term and give him/her up for adoption…but I wouldn’t have gotten pregnant as a teen to begin with. It’s easy for me to say, after having two planned pregnancies in my 30s, but if I could do it, why can’t other girls keep their legs together? I was sensible enough to respect myself, my body and it’s sacred, God-given ability to bring life into this world. Teaching kids to put condoms on bananas doesn’t teach them respect–for anyone or anything.
I would like this poor girl to ask Obama if she was punished by the culture of abortion, instead of a baby.
There are no words to describe how evil I think Barry Whosane and his minions are. Abortions for the world!!!
I hope my brother, the Obama-lover is happy now.
Christine on January 22, 2009 at 12:41 PM
He said he didn’t have help.
Even if he did, it could have a single person. That’s not even a consideration for commenting to the possibility of support from the Right in general.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Very, very true. It takes two to make a baby, and those two should both have a say. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that’s ever going to change, because to many women (and men) believe that because the woman carries the baby, it’s her choice alone.
Perhaps I’m too pessimistic, and someday it will change. There are many men out there I feel that would be willing fathers, dispite the propaganda to the contrary.
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM
yeah….fk that.
P.S. they are not Catholic, they are CINOs.
lobosan5 on January 22, 2009 at 12:43 PM
WTF? They’ve been demonized? So, what, people are just making up the stories about white powder being sent to Mormons, the blacklists and the violence perpetrated on an old lady that was caught on a news camera?
You continue to surprise me.
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:44 PM
LOL, I feel like as a Christian, I am stalked daily by the Leftist Left Wing media.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Esthier, how else does someone get worked up to the point where they’ll drive a car in to a building? Not by reading Proust, I’ll bet. Words do matter and can have an effect on people’s behavior strangely enough.
As to stupid things said about President Bush, yep, I agree there were some really dumb and idiotic things said.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 12:44 PM
You did a truly courageous thing, and spoke “truth to power” in a deafening way. You have my unending respect.
As I’ve said before, the un-addressed issue in this culture is always the effect abortion has on men. The erosion of manhood/responsibility in succeeding generations of young men over the last 40 years has been truly saddening, as is exemplified in your story of your friend’s “partner.”
Abortion destroys the lives of all involved. It has been “chosen” by more than one woman of my acquaintance, always without my input. And every time, by the way, I was told in advance that contraception was taken care of, and not my responsibility.
Having had a much-loved child taken from me in 1970 by her mother for reasons of “self-determination”, this is a source of great pain to me, and truly heart-breaking, over and over.
warbaby on January 22, 2009 at 12:46 PM
A single-cell microbe on Mars constitutes life, but a 9-week old fetus does not. WTF is wrong with that picture?
Roc on January 22, 2009 at 12:47 PM
No, you aren’t being really stalked and you’re not being funny either.
starfleet_dude on January 22, 2009 at 12:47 PM
It is on the liberal double standard.
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:47 PM
In my opinion, a womans right to do whatever she wants with her body, stops the second has unprotected sexual intercourse.
–So read an earlier post in this thread. The woman aparently took the pill and became pregnant, so it’s not unprotected sex. What’s your position then?
And TimothyJ, have you been reading the news for the last several years or longer? There are protest marches today in many cities, just as there were in the Pres campaign and before. And lawyers are suing cities. Perhaps the reason the civil disobiedence tactics worked in the 60s was that most people (apart from some Southerners) agreed with the end result. The US is pretty clearly in favor of late term abortion restrictions/parental rights/informed notice, but is very squishy about signifiant early term abortion restrictions (look at the South Dakota ballot initiative that was defeated, even with rape/incest exceptions) and so the public opinion just isn’t there for what you want to do.
jim m on January 22, 2009 at 12:48 PM
And YOU continue to surprise me. Let’s just be real about this for a moment. In our society women bear the lionshare of childrearing responsibility. In order to actually sue a guy for child support is a big ordeal and may require funds for a lawyer that a mother does not have. A guys body is not inexorably changed. Look, if a guy really wants to have a child with someone than he needs to make sure he’s in a committed relationship with a woman who ALSO wants to have a child. Otherwise wrap it up. Men have too much of a history of abandoning kids that woman can not abandon, maybe due to biology or whatever, to be given any kind of a choice over a woman’s reproductive life. Again, unless its a choice thats come to mutually and together. Ideally this is how all pregnancies should go. But once its unexpected, it’s really about what the woman wants.
DeathToMediaHacks on January 22, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Ironic! It’s forever ironic and makes me scratch my head about how you can come here and talk about the dark side of Conservatives and Conservative ideology, given every free opportunity to post without being censured, and I have never gotten one comment through at the DU, KOS, Huffington Post or CNN. They all seem to get lost in “Your Comment is Being Moderated” Land.
How do you justify your belief that your side is so much better when they don’t even allow the “occasional” dissenting opinion, let alone the free flow of ideas like you find on a site such as this.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:52 PM
But hey, we’re the weaker sex, so we can’t be expected to “wrap it up.”
Perfect.
Have you read Proust? It’s a very depressing book.
And star, how else does someone get to the point where they’re ready to attack a judge while he’s at home with his family? How else to they get to the point of trying to kill cops, soldiers and Pentagon officials?
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Because we’re evil, hawk. People like us shouldn’t be given the right to speak freely. Hate crime laws are only necessary because people like us exist.
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 12:54 PM
I agree with that, but many people will try to say the fetus isn’t really a person until it meets milestone X, say the ability to survive outside the womb. What I’m saying is that any such pick is arbitrary, (science cannot tell you which milestone is right), and therefore protection since conception is the correct choice.
kc8ukw on January 22, 2009 at 12:54 PM
It is still amazing to me how any woman can say they support abortion because “a woman has a right to choose”. Awfully convenient that they seem to forget or ignore the fact that around half of those they kill in the womb are also female. What of their right to choose? They are never given a choice. And what of the males killed in the uterus? Shouldn’t they also get a choice, even though they are not female? It is a disgusting practice. I agree with many other people who have already written, it is very disturbing that Christians are not more uniformly against abortion. There is no way to really justify this to yourself as a Christian, you simply should not vote for someone who is pro-abortion. Period.
Trtle2001 on January 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM
BS my friend. And I am very funny. But I might suppose you’d rather hear John Stewart or Bill Maher rail about how Christians are stupid and backward and ruining the world.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Not all unplanned pregnancies stem from unprotected sex. Birth control can fail, even when both parties are using it (cue my daughter). Why should a man willing to be a father have to just accept an abortion, when a woman can have a child without the father’s willing participation (faking BC)?
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 12:56 PM
BRAVA!!!
warbaby on January 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM
DeathToMediaHacks on January 22, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Roe v. Wade legalized murder in this country, that’s all that it did.
Abortion is the murder of the innocent and the defenseless, and anyone who believes differently is simply living in denial.
Just because it’s legal, doesn’t make it right.
NoDonkey on January 22, 2009 at 1:06 PM
And why isn’t the same true of women in your mind? How many women sleep with men they know don’t want children, men who use condoms and everything else at their disposal to not have children but whose significant others get pregnant anyway?
Why are you against holding women to the same standard as men? Are we not capable?
Esthier on January 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I have to go back to work. But in parting… (and Starfleet Dude and Death to MSM Hacks please ignore this post because it doesn’t apply to committed Leftist).
But to you fellow Christians out there of any denomination, who have somehow evolved in your belief system to where you can somehow square abortion with your faith, just remember this. Mary entered the home of Elizabeth while carrying Jesus in her womb. Elizabeth carried John. When that unborn child knew it was in the presence of the Lord, “the baby leap”.
hawkdriver on January 22, 2009 at 1:09 PM
You don’t get it. People can change very quickly when presented with pregnancy. A man might not want kids, until he finds out he’s going to be a father. Why should he be punished for actually being a man and stepping up to his responsibility? I agree with Esthier, in that you’re having trouble holding men and women to the same standard. It’s a bit sexist – and condescending.
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Esthier,
You continue to get right to the point,and beautifully.
I’m sure there are many men my age who are alone as a result of a series of poor choices, mostly due to eventually accepting the fact that there are very few adult women to choose from.
And many of us still haven’t given up, either, even in the face of apparently overwhelming evidence.
Thanks.
warbaby on January 22, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Maybe the protesters should line up shoes representing the dead on the capitol steps like the anti-gunners do. 88 million shoes ought to make quite a spectacle.
Socratease on January 22, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Baby booties. I could donate several pairs. That image brings tears to my eyes.
Anna on January 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Absolutely brilliant and eloquent. My God, what an image.
warbaby on January 22, 2009 at 1:28 PM
If the messiah signs the Freedom of Choice Act, I hope the Catholic run medical facilities closes their doors instead of being forced to perform abortions.
Zorg on January 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Baby booties. I could donate several pairs. That image brings tears to my eyes.
Anna
Great idea, but good luck getting the permit for that demonstration. If it should happen though, I will happily buy several pair to donate. Just make sure they go to unwed mother shelters and crisis pregnancy centers after the event.
SKYFOX on January 22, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Be careful, there. The probability that a fertilized egg will end up as a live birth is only about one-in-four, due to failure to implant or miscarriages. Not exactly “highly likely.”
If you want to go with that argument, “highly likely” is probably going to happen a few months in.
Count to 10 on January 22, 2009 at 1:53 PM
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