Fitna producer charged with hate crimes

posted at 12:00 pm on January 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Europe strikes another blow against free speech and takes another step towards dhimmitude.  Not only has a Dutch court decided that the film Fitna goes beyond acceptable political speech, they have also decided that producer-lawmaker Geert Wilders went beyond the protections afforded elected officials.  Wilders will face hate-crimes charges for insulting Muslims with comparisons between radical Islamists and the Nazis, among other arguments:

A Dutch court has ordered prosecutors to put a right-wing politician on trial for making anti-Islamic statements.

Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders made a controversial film last year equating Islam with violence and has likened the Koran to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

“In a democratic system, hate speech is considered so serious that it is in the general interest to… draw a clear line,” the court in Amsterdam said.

Mr Wilders said the judgement was an “attack on the freedom of expression”.

The sensitivity of Nazi comparisons seems rather ironic, since Wilders included in the film Muslim protestors who held signs saying, “God Bless Hitler”.  Does the Dutch court believe that criticism of that impulse among Islamists — certainly not an isolated impulse — amounts to a hate crime?  When exactly can people criticize the protests of others?

Freedom of speech, in a democratic system or any other, requires tolerance by the populace of unpopular ideas and criticisms.  Popular speech requires no protection.  Imposing limits on what can and cannot be criticized and opposed through rhetoric and peaceful assembly ends freedom and starts totalitarianism.  If Wilders cannot criticize Islam openly and freely without the government requiring permission, then the government can declare all dissent illegal through “hate crimes” legislation based on the whim of the government in question.  It won’t be long before the ruling class in Holland discover that they can protect their own status through such prosecution and attack dissent accordingly.

Whether or not one agrees with the thrust of Fitna, the impulse to silence Wilders represents an affront to freedom.  Let the Muslims counter with their own arguments and use their own freedom of speech to prove Wilders wrong.  Silencing Wilders in this manner strongly suggests that they cannot do so and need to apply force to silence Wilders instead.  Fortunately, the Dutch seem willing to provide that force for the Muslims.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Censorship via hate crime laws coming to a theater near you!

Christian Conservative on January 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Poor bastard. I can see this coming to a community near you.
Let’s get him political asylum. He can stay with me.
Keep up the good fight Wilders!

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Ok…scratch Holland off the list of places my kids will be able to visit when they’re old enough.

Bishop on January 21, 2009 at 12:04 PM

hate crimes are for pu$$ies…

D2Boston on January 21, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Silly Geert.

Just say you unintentionally mingled the Koran with the Bible – and you’ll get the Golden Globe and Knighthood from Belgium and England.

SIMPLE!

Aristotle on January 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM

And so it begins.

saltydogg14 on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

a foregleem of what will happen here

Rogue on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

More from Jihad Watch:

Outrage: Dutch court to prosecute Wilders for Fitna

The enemies of free speech are closing in, and we have to stand together now and defend it. Everyone who loves freedom and wants to resist the straitjacket of groupthink and the totalitarian imposition of Sharia norms should stand with Geert Wilders now. I hope Wilders will relocate to the United States, and carry on the fight for truth and freedom here, in what could be their last redoubt.

There is a link to the ruling as well as a video of Fitna at that link.

and

Geert Wilders: court decision is an all-out assault on freedom of speech

Geert Wilders: “Apparently this is The Netherlands today. If you speak out you might be prosecuted. To participate in public debate has become a dangerous activity.”

“If I have to appear in court, not only I will be prosecuted, but also hundreds of thousands of Dutch citizens who reject the Islamisation of the West. In Dutch Parliament only the Party for Freedom is willing to speak up for the preservation of our culture and our many freedoms.”

The Freedom Party leader now faces legal proceedings that will probably take years to conclude and will also involve enormous legal fees.

“We depend on small donations. The Freedom Party is the only party in Parliament that does not accept any government funding. This court decision jeopardizes the very existence of the Freedom Party. We simply cannot afford the enormous legal expenses.”

“This is a black day for freedom.”

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Free speech is supposed to protect speech that is offensive. If it didn’t offend, then it wouldn’t need to be protected.

sammypants on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Those two Youtube links you provided are dead, Ed.

Here’s one that won’t die.

I’ll try to remember to upload the source flv when I get home so others can host it if they want.

MadisonConservative on January 21, 2009 at 12:08 PM

If it didn’t offend, then it wouldn’t need to be protected.

sammypants on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Exactly. This is disgusting.

Esthier on January 21, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Every American child should be required to read 1984. They should be required to know what Thoughtcrime is, so that they will be accustomed to filtering out any and all thoughts that are against the State, or the New Order in America.

OhEssYouCowboys on January 21, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Geert Wilders’ Speech in Jerusalem at the Facing Jihad conference:

Cultural relativism is the biggest disease modern day Europe suffers from. Not all cultures are equal. Our Western culture is better than the Islamic culture. In the words of the brave Dr. Wafa Sultan: “It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality”. Indeed also here in Israel you are not fighting a territorial war, it’s not about territory it’s about ideology. The Islamic ideology does not seek cooperation or assimilation but aims for submission and dominance over non-Muslims. There is no moderate Islam, there will never be a moderate Islam. There might be moderate people who call themselves Muslim, but there is no moderate Islam…

Now some words about my film Fitna.

I felt I had the moral duty to educate people about Islam and the Islamisation of Europe. The duty to make clear to everyone that the Koran stands at the heart of what some people call terrorism but is in reality jihad. I wanted to show that the problems of Islam are at the core of Islam, and do not belong to its fringes.

I have warned against the dangers of the Koran and Islam in numerous interviews, opinion articles, speeches and of course parliamentary debates, but pictures often say more than words. That is why I made Fitna.

Fitna is a documentary that shows what is being done in the name of Islam. Without placing all Muslims into the same category, I think I have succeeded in showing that the Koran is not some dusty old book, but that it is still used today as a source of inspiration for, and justification of hatred, violence and terrorism across the world.

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Dragging someone off to the star chamber again.

BKennedy on January 21, 2009 at 12:11 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on January 21, 2009 at 12:09 PM

And yet liberals try to claim that Republicans are Big Brother.

Thanks for hosting it, Madison.

Esthier on January 21, 2009 at 12:12 PM

After reading much of the Koran (ugh) I am able to wholeheartedly agree with the guy.
Put me on the hate crime list, death watch, whatever, but it is Evil 101 disguised as love & peace.

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 12:14 PM

To be completely fair, they need to then charge the makers/producers of “The Davinci Code” and “The Last Temptation of Christ” with hate crimes. Not because they are hateful towards Christians (which they are), but because they were a perfect crapstorm of boring.

Seriously, any film where Christians are portrayed in a hateful/negative light needs to be treated exactly the same. Or we can accuse the court of being (gasp!) unfair.

mjk on January 21, 2009 at 12:16 PM

If you don’t want a man unhappy politically, don’t give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war.- Ray Bradbury

Limerick on January 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Some day in the future the USA will be liberating these clowns again! The Dutch are doomed with this PC crap.

grapeknutz on January 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM

So, in producing fitna, with accurately printing passages from the Qur’an, relaying factual events like 9/11 and 7/7 commited by Muslims in their self-professed name of Islam and capturing and showing the explicit words of jihadists on film, constitutes hate speech?

Indeed, the era of hope and change is upon us. May God help us all and protect the intrepid Geert Wilders.

awake on January 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM

to the remaining dutchmen & women who believe in liberty [and i know you are still out there] — time to make a stand of lose your country for good. PLEASE follow the example of the Canadians who publically backed Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant and are slowly dismantling the insanity of their “speech courts” …

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM

if Obama were smart, he’d publicly speak out against this, ASAP

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM

When exactly can people criticize the protests of others?

Only when they’re conservatives.

rbj on January 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM

“jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM”

what could possibly make you think he disagrees with this?!?!?!?

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Seriously, any film where Christians are portrayed in a hateful/negative light needs to be treated exactly the same. Or we can accuse the court of being (gasp!) unfair.

mjk on January 21, 2009 at 12:16 PM

We may be hard pressed to find volunteers for the embassy burning necessary to get the courts’ attention. Perhaps if we tell some Southern Baptists there’s a combination potluck/destruction derby? ;)

TheUnrepentantGeek on January 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM

“In a democratic system, hate speech is considered so serious that it is in the general interest to… draw a clear line,” the court in Amsterdam said.

That’s the most amazing piece of Orwellian doublespeak I’ve heard outside the Obama campaign. They actually invoke democracy as a justification for suppression of free speech.

That’s just absolutely amazing. Perhaps europe is too far gone to save.

commenter on January 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM

I’m not sure relocation to the U.S. will protect him. Maybe for a while, but I look for hate crimes legislation to be enhanced considerably in the next 4 years.
Barry is going to reach out to Muslims a bit more specifically than he explained yesterday.

a capella on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Or as CS Lewis simply put it:

“Relativism will certainly damn our souls and end our species” -C.S. Lewis

and Liberals and Secularist the world over are proving that to be a fact. This is exactly how the “end our species” part comes into play.

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

All “hate crime” laws are about destroying free speech. Its funny that most people don’t understand that. There are plenty of laws on the books to prosecute every kind of crime that has a victim, hate crime laws are not needed to see that law breakers are prosecuted. But hate crime laws are needed to silence free speech. Once free speech is lost, absolute tyranny follows.

Maxx on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

what could possibly make you think he disagrees with this?!?!?!?

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Nothing, I just said if he is smart…politically.

talk about something that could give people like us alot of ease about Obama, condeming this would be up there.

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:22 PM

One of Pim Fortyn’s policy proposals before he was cruelly murdered by an animal rights activist was to amend the Dutch Constitution in order to make freedom of speech inviolable.

aengus on January 21, 2009 at 12:23 PM

I expect we will lose our freedom of speech soon.

allrsn on January 21, 2009 at 12:24 PM

“Its funny that most people don’t understand that.”

it’s not funny, it’s the end result of ~40 years of the lll indoctrinating folks — i was in college ~20 years ago and remember the “speech code” lunacy as it was just gaining traction — of being agahst at those who were actively justifying the subjagation of the 1st amendment …

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Does the prosecution have to show that Wilders slandered Islam, or is just upsetting some people with accurate statements enough to qualify as “hate speech”?

Have any of the dhimmi prosecutors read the Koran and Sunnah?

forest on January 21, 2009 at 12:25 PM

“jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:22 PM”

ok, but my point is not.gonna.happen.

and the best case to come out of that may be a serious case of buyer’s remorse among those who should have had it before november [!!]

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Seriously, any film where Christians are portrayed in a hateful/negative light needs to be treated exactly the same. Or we can accuse the court of being (gasp!) unfair.

mjk on January 21, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Or rather, just drop all of it.

Esthier on January 21, 2009 at 12:27 PM

After reading much of the Koran (ugh) I am able to wholeheartedly agree with the guy.
Put me on the hate crime list, death watch, whatever, but it is Evil 101 disguised as love & peace.

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 12:14 PM

I have also read much of th Koran, you are correct Islam is evil. Islam is about hate and death, no love and peace involved.

allrsn on January 21, 2009 at 12:27 PM

We may be hard pressed to find volunteers for the embassy burning necessary to get the courts’ attention. Perhaps if we tell some Southern Baptists there’s a combination potluck/destruction derby? ;)

RRRRAAACCCIIISSSTTTT!!!! Oh, wait, the politics of divisiveness and whatevs are over…..

I would burn some stuff. Just because I can….

P.S. The crack about the Southern Baptists made me giggle. Well played, my friend.

mjk on January 21, 2009 at 12:27 PM

The more I see Orwellian headlines like this, and the demonization and pogroms against Jews and Israel, and the moral bankruptcy of liberalism and cultural relativism, the more I feel we are turning into the upside down world of “Planet of the Apes.”

Truly we are approaching the abyss of a new dark age. The preservation of all that we cherish and hold sacred depends on what we, as a nation and as individuals, do or do not do in the next few years.

G-d help us.

J.J. Sefton on January 21, 2009 at 12:28 PM

It’s a topsy turvy world indeed when holding a sign that says “God bless Hitler” is not a hate crime but putting that same image in your documentary is.

I keep thinking there ought to be something that I can do to help but I can never come up with anything. :(

JadeNYU on January 21, 2009 at 12:29 PM

So the guy who has to have an armed escort,so he doesnt get murdered like that film guy, because he spoke his mind, is getting prosecuted. Wow this is so wrong on so many levels.

MDWNJ on January 21, 2009 at 12:29 PM

That’s the most amazing piece of Orwellian doublespeak I’ve heard outside the Obama campaign. They actually invoke democracy as a justification for suppression of free speech.

That’s just absolutely amazing. Perhaps europe is too far gone to save.

commenter on January 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Yes it is amazing. The power of rationalization. Watch for it here in the USA.

allrsn on January 21, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Good grief. His movie just seemed to point out some of Islam’s agenda and propaganda, it didn’t seem to me to be anything more than that…showing facts. Now, look at some of the pics of Gaza protesters in LA recently…their signs really do look like hate speech to me, yet no one seems to care about that.

http://www.ringospictures.com/index.php?page=20090110

scalleywag on January 21, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Trolls take note! This is the liberalism you love and embrace. Now let’s hear you defend this aberration.

kirkill on January 21, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Good thing it can’t happen here.

Akzed on January 21, 2009 at 12:30 PM

“Akzed on January 21, 2009 at 12:30 PM”

AT THE MOMENT …

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:31 PM

” it didn’t seem to me to be anything more than that…showing facts.”

which is PRECISELY why the imams and the eu-nichs want to shut him up NOW — if josef and maria q. euro ever fully figgered out what just what is being subsidized in their very own cities they would revolt!

Buckaroo on January 21, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Criminalizing ‘hatred’? How very peculiar. Shall we criminalize ‘envy’ next?

Where would the ‘Thought Gestapo’ like to take this concept?

LimeyGeek on January 21, 2009 at 12:33 PM

a capella on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

I dread that.

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

I love Lewis. He’s right. You have to recognize evil as evil and good as good and say so.

Maxx on January 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM

I think you’re right about hate speech crimes being used against free speech.

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on January 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM

As a Southern Baptist, I am shocked, I tell you, shocked, at such a statement…
Besides, it’s a Demolition Derby…or NASCAR Event…or Pro Rasslin’.
Pass the Fried Chicken.

kingsjester on January 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM

As a Canadian, this is nothing new to me. Our Human Rights Tribunals are mostly used as a bludgeon against Christians – one Pastor was recently ordered never to speak or write on homosexuality ever again.

Muslims and homosexuals are designated victim groups, therefore their utterences can never be considered hateful, no matter how hateful they might actually be. If you are a member of a designated victim group (or even just a friend), and someone hurts your feelings, you can take them to one of these tribunals and earn a tidy sum from collected fines. At least one guy makes his living this way.

Check out http://www.ezralevant.com for the best blogging on this subject. Or better yet, check out the videos Mr. Levant posted on youtube when he was hauled before one of these silly courts (Here is the first one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzVJTHIvqw8 )

Johnny 100 Pesos on January 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM

take note that the Liberals/idiots in Hollywood think its them who are brave and ‘speaking truth to power’ with all their anti-bush stuff. Because Bush was going to, uh……?

instead bush let nutballs like Alex Jones operate freely, much less crappy hollywood movies.

Hollywood liberals are the biggest bunch of posers

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM

It’s not a clash of civilizations [all intone]
It’s not a holy war [all intone]
We’re al brothers and sisters [all intone]
Trust the government of elites to hash it all out [all intone]
Hey, let’s just keep telling ourselves that! Just like the Dutch have been doing for a generation.

Western_Civ on January 21, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Let the Muslims counter with their own arguments and use their own freedom of speech to prove Wilders wrong.

Muslim counterarguments are normally concealed under loose clothing and feature detonators

DarkCurrent on January 21, 2009 at 12:37 PM

I really think this thread ought to be on Top Picks. It’s that important, no matter how many or few comments are made.

INC on January 21, 2009 at 12:38 PM

What an absolute disgrace. This continent is fu**ed.

madne0 on January 21, 2009 at 12:39 PM

As a Canadian, this is nothing new to me. Our Human Rights Tribunals are mostly used as a bludgeon against Christians – one Pastor was recently ordered never to speak or write on homosexuality ever again.

Muslims and homosexuals are designated victim groups, therefore their utterences can never be considered hateful, no matter how hateful they might actually be. If you are a member of a designated victim group (or even just a friend), and someone hurts your feelings, you can take them to one of these tribunals and earn a tidy sum from collected fines. At least one guy makes his living this way.

Check out http://www.ezralevant.com for the best blogging on this subject. Or better yet, check out the videos Mr. Levant posted on youtube when he was hauled before one of these silly courts (Here is the first one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzVJTHIvqw8 )

Johnny 100 Pesos on January 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Thanks for the information. This point needs to be made.

TheUnrepentantGeek on January 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM

Our courts use “hate crimes” selectively.

To the guy who asked about The One and this issue…what is The One’s middle name? Now watch how he rolls…

IlikedAUH2O on January 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM

To argue whether Fitna is a “hate crime” or not is to completely miss the point. The very notion of a “hate crime” is the real threat here.

The very idea of a “hate crime” is a cancerous lesion on society. They wish to see dissent against their sick and evil ideology made into a crime and punishable by law. This is nothing less than a direct attack upon the foundation of liberty itself.

“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear” — George Orwell

leereyno on January 21, 2009 at 12:45 PM

I guess David Černý hit the nail right on the head when he depicted the Netherlands as this in his overall depiction of Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7827747.stm

Lance Murdock on January 21, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Umm, general question to the posters here…

Anyone taking bets on the exact date when “Hate Crime” = “Thought Crime” becomes judicial precedence or even law in this country?

It will probably take just a couple of failed Obama bills (held up in the Senate or House by Republicans) before it becomes the Orwellian steamroller.

Geministorm on January 21, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Contemptable subjugation of liberal western ideals!

I cannot for the life of me understand why the west is turning its collective back on the basic and most fundamental and core elements of western tradition.

Without the most basic protections of freedom of expression no one is really free.

moxie_neanderthal on January 21, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Look at it this way. This can be a good thing if handled by Mr. Wilders attournies appropriately. It will give them the oppurtunity to demand from the court why they think this is a hate crime. the court will have to bring evidence to substantiate this. In turn, Mr. Wilders can bring evidence to the contrary. In the end it will put Islam itself on trial in front of a world stage. I am eager to see this go forward.

paulsur on January 21, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Geministorm on January 21, 2009 at 12:46 PM

He’s already promised to sign bills Bush wouldn’t.

See also.

Akzed on January 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM

allrsn on January 21, 2009 at 12:27 PM

It’s nice not to be alone in knowing the truth.

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM

“In a democratic system, hate speech is considered so serious that it is in the general interest to… draw a clear line,” the court in Amsterdam said.

Why is it that Liberals, lefties are so willing to draw that “clear line” around muslims to protect them from their own utterances?

40 Years of mind numbing PC scholastic’s have brought this upon us. We in the west, are headed into a dark period in our civilization, when our own leadership won’t see and protect us from an enemy sworn to destroy us.

cdn.infidel on January 21, 2009 at 12:53 PM

He’s already promised to sign bills Bush wouldn’t.

See also.

Akzed on January 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM

I knew it was coming. Reading about it again is simply scary.
God help us.

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Akzed on January 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM

God help us if he’s this stupid

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Taqiya!

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Tell the Dutch how you feel.

BL@KBIRD on January 21, 2009 at 12:56 PM

if Obama signs into law Hate Crimes laws, hopefully the SCOTUS would reject it as Unconstitutional as long as Supreme Dictator Anthony Kennedy is persuaded.

but if it passes, all Conservative blogs and talk radio should play Fitna in Unison one day and dare them to charge them all with ‘hate crimes’, talk about political suicide for Obama

jp on January 21, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Militant Islam was indeed born of the friendship with Nazism.

So now we’ve generated to the point that any insult of Islam is a hate crime.

How long do you imagine it will be before Mohammed Obama seeks the same for the US?

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM

President Obama had not even finished his inaugural address today before his agenda was posted on the WhiteHouse website, where he promised to “overturn” the Supreme Court’s precedents on discrimination claims and to demand new laws requiring employers to provide special protections for homosexuals and others with “gender” issues.

Hold on thar, Babalooie!

Didn’t Roberts and Alito have to pledge to stare decisis?

Now that’s out the window? Excuse me?

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 1:01 PM

I think the “fortunately” in the last sentence was supposed to be “unfortunately”.

Andrew D on January 21, 2009 at 1:02 PM

“This is a black day for freedom.”

I wonder whether Reverend Joseph Lowery would have said “This is a white day for freedom.”

Shy Guy on January 21, 2009 at 1:03 PM

paulsur

Well said. Wilders only used the words of Islam. Good lawyers will demolish the case. It would be nice to think that this is the intention, to put the Koran on trial, but I doubt it.

Let’s hope it is the result.

BL@KBIRD on January 21, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Pretty soon we will all be hooked up to sensors that can tell the authorities our thoughts.

Flint Stone on January 21, 2009 at 1:08 PM

This is very worrying. It reminds me of what happened to Nick Griffin, leader of Britain’s far right party. He said “islam is a wicked religion”. I’m not sure I agree, but I think it’s arguable. I also thing it is essential to any meaningful freedom that people be able to discuss religious ideas freely. Need it even be said! How can you be free if you can’t discuss the purpose of your existence, if acceptable answers to that question are prescribed for you?

Griffin was taken to court. Thanks to the wisdom of the jury, he was acquitted. Let’s see how long juries are allowed to exist for such “crimes” …

thedarknight on January 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Was Theo van Gogh’s murder a hate crime?

sammypants on January 21, 2009 at 1:19 PM

“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear” — George Orwell

leereyno on January 21, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Hear, hear!!!

Applause, applause!!!

INC on January 21, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Hmmm:

‘The minister ought to know Mein Kampf is the most inciteful book in world history,’ van Haersma Buma said. ‘Its ideology killed millions of people. The book was deliberately prohibited. I do not know why it should suddenly be freely sold now.’

Yet they allow free sales of the Koran?

unclesmrgol on January 21, 2009 at 1:23 PM

to put the Koran on trial

that would be only too cool
but how would wife beating/killing/child molestation/bigamy/christian hating/gay bashing
continue?

you might ruin an entire way of life
hmmmm outlawing islam, since it is a religion of hate…

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on January 21, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Let the Muslims counter with their own arguments and use their own freedom of speech to prove Wilders wrong.

In our world view this would be how it should work, but these mohammadans, they don’t need a rebuttle, they are superior and we must all bow down before them. They don’t need to explain their side of the story, or to defend their beliefs, they have allah on their sise therefore they’re always in the right. And if you disagree … I KEEEEEL YOU!

Tony737 on January 21, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Whether or not one agrees with the thrust of Fitna

That implies to me that you, or someone you know and consider rational, didn’t agree with the thrust of Fitna. The word “thrust” implies that someone feels that Fitna was about jabbing a rabid dog with a stick, instead of pointing out how the dog is rabid.

If I can sense the fear in it, the rabid dog will surely sense the fear.

Buddahpundit on January 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Wanna see something really funny?

End Deceptive Voting Practices: President Obama will sign into law his legislation that establishes harsh penalties for those who have engaged in voter fraud and provides voters who have been misinformed with accurate and full information so they can vote.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/civil_rights/

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM

What that means is that he’s going to prevent anyone else from doing what he did.

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Was Theo van Gogh’s murder a hate crime?

sammypants on January 21, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Hell no. That was an honor crime.

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 1:30 PM

What that means is that he’s going to prevent anyone else from doing what he did.

drjohn on January 21, 2009 at 1:29 PM

“Takes one to know one.”

“Do as I say, not as I do.”

Shy Guy on January 21, 2009 at 1:32 PM

drjohn

that is funny

sammypants on January 21, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Wilders will face hate-crimes charges for insulting Muslims with comparisons between radical Islamists and the Nazis, among other arguments

Maybe the Dutch can put Winston Churchill on trial (in absentia) too. They should be able to come up with some much more serious charges against him than against Wilder as Churchill made his comparison (more like equating not just a comparison actually) between Islam and the Nazis and between Mohammad and Hitler with none of this “radical” restriction twaddle.

Here was the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.
- Winston Churchill (equating Adolf Hitler’s degenerate “Mein Kampf” to Mohammad and Islams degenerate Koran in his book the “The Gathering Storm”)

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
- Winston Churchill

MB4 on January 21, 2009 at 1:40 PM

MB4 on January 21, 2009 at 1:40 PM

That perspective is much needed.

Badger40 on January 21, 2009 at 1:46 PM

Imagine there’s no Islam
It’s hard but you can try
No suicide hijackers coming down at us
Above us only sky
Imagine all those people
Still alive today…

Imagine there’s no Islamic ruled countries
It’s hard but you can try
No Mohammad for them to kill or die for
And no Censors and no Imams too
Imagine all the Christians, Jews and Infidels
Living life without them…

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday all dhimmis will join us
And the non-Islamic world will be as one

Imagine no Burkhas
I wonder if you can
No need for Medina or Meca
A brotherhood of non-Islamic woman and man
Imagine all the people
Living without censorship and Sharia…

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday all dhimmis will join us
And the non-Islamic world will be as one

MB4 on January 21, 2009 at 1:54 PM

This is absurd.

jediwebdude on January 21, 2009 at 1:58 PM

Speaking of free speech, you should have seen the reaction in the SF Chronicle to the following…

capitalistpig1/21/2009 10:47:57 AM

Yes! he should retake the oath, only instead of desecrating Lincoln’s bible, he should take the oath of oriface using a document that better decribes what his term in office will be like , therfore , make him use the original “communist manifesto ” by Karl Marx

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on January 21, 2009 at 2:01 PM

If Wilders cannot criticize Islam openly and freely without the government requiring permission, then the government can declare all dissent illegal through “hate crimes” legislation based on the whim of the government in question.

“Hate crimes” legislation fosters oppression, “hate crimes” legislation fosters servitude, “hate crimes” legislation fosters cruelty; more abominable is the fact that it fosters idiocy.

Tav on January 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Maybe some will wise up after talk radio is replaced by Muslim prayer and sermons. Now that the U.S. is on the way to becoming a social democracy like Sweden and Germany expect full time PC type legislation that will eliminate free speech on many issues by the adopting of Hate Crime laws to protect the practitioners of the most barbarous behaviors.

On the other hand there will be opportunities for burqa shops, prayer rugs and beads.

Annar on January 21, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Comment pages: 1 2