Good news: TARP II coming soon
posted at 12:35 pm on January 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
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No, not the stimulus. Another monster bailout on top of the stimulus. If the timeline here is right, Team Barry could be asking for it by mid-February, which would mean the $700 billion in TARP I lasted … five months.
Ever get the feeling like we’re just buying time?
[P]ersons close to the situation in Congress told Politico that the deteriorating economic situation leaves little breathing room. Bank losses are up and auto sales down. A top Hill staffer predicted Obama could be forced to seek more money even before the President’s Day recess in mid-February.
If so, this would be a nightmare political scenario for the incoming administration, which has focused on using the next month to muscle through its economic recovery plan…
But Obama gets one honeymoon as a new president, and waiting is not without risks. Financial newspapers reflect a growing concern that the government must do more to buy up the bad investments that hang over financial markets; with more bad earnings reports due this week, there is sense that this is a crisis that can’t be avoided…
“Congress isn’t going to step up and say, ‘Hey, can we give away another $700 billion?’” said an aide to a second Democratic House member. “But there’s a growing sense among people who are really watching this closely, I think, that it is entirely possible, six months from now, maybe even less, the administration is going to come back and say, ‘We need more; we need … more of the same.’”
Nouriel “Dr. Doom” Roubini runs the numbers and predicts that total credit crisis losses could reach $3.6 trillion; the U.S. banking system only has capital of, er, $1.4 trillion. Tony Blankley, never known for his fondness for big government, ponders the implications and bites the bullet:
[E]ven many important conservative, free market economists – including some of President Reagan’s top economists – believe we do need a very big fiscal stimulus a la the 1930s and 1940s. And here is where it gets even more confounding. Maybe a trillion dollar deficit is too small. Most economic historians believe that the Great Depression did not end until World War II because only then was the deficit spending big enough to fully replace the lack of private sector economic activity. FDR was afraid of big deficits and didn’t spend enough to end the depression sooner…
So, if the Depression-WWII theory is to be followed, next year’s deficit should not be a paltry $1 trillion, but rather about $2.5 trillion (in order to be about the same percent of the GDP as the World War II deficits were). At a mere trillion, we may be spending enough to badly inflate the currency without spending enough to lift the economy.
Exit question: How much for TARP II, do you think? Another $700 billion or do we go for a cool tril this time?
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Train wreck in slow motion.
artist on January 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Can’t wait to get my $100,000 Obama bills with an extra large head-hole that fits his ears.
Chuck Schick on January 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Adios Economy!
Arrogant Conceit: Obama Thinks He Can Reform The Economy (John Stossel, ABC News)
Why ‘Stimulus’ Will Not Work (Real Clear Politics)
“The definition of “insanity” is, “doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result”. Given the failure of “stimulus” everywhere and every time it has been tried (the U.S. in the 1930s, 2001, and 2008, Japan in the 1990s, etc.), Keynesianism is actually a form of insanity.”
Poptech on January 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM
When this new ‘bubble’ deflates, it will be the last one we’ll see in our lifetimes. The TARP bubble will be the end of the global free market/free trade economy or a long time.
AUINSC on January 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Why are we even talking in terms of monetary value anymore?
We’re just going to reach the point where the government, after it gets all this ‘money’, just cancels the debt, nationalizes/socialize everything and we head to the work farms.
catmman on January 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM
I told ya’ll months ago. If 700 billion is just enough. Why not make it 7 trillion and make things awesome.
Now I think we need 70 trillion dollar bailouts and we will all get our unicorns.
I’m curious if AP or Ed feel remorse for supporting the first bailout.
lorien1973 on January 20, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I expect the remaining republicans will just go along with it because TARP passed and they don’t have any real conservative convictions. The Constitution be damned, Congress-critters know best. While they are at it maybe congress should repeal all the bankruptcy laws as they aren’t needed any longer, after all staying in business is only another TARP/bailout away. The only problem is you have to stay vialbe while you are standing in line behind the states, cities and other municipalities.
belad on January 20, 2009 at 12:42 PM
FDR didn’t spend enough? LBJ didn’t spend enough either. What is it with these Dems? They start these huge programs that always fail, then say they failed due to lack of funding. Need more funding, or cowbell, whatever.
billypaintbrush on January 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Just as communism/socialism consistently fails because people “didn’t do it right”.
LimeyGeek on January 20, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Sow, meet Reap.
Well met lorien. I wonder if there are many true conservatives on this site any longer. Have they left, been assimilated??? What happened to the Constitution? Look up Davy Crockett’s response to unwarranted government spending – “It’s not mine to give.”
And what’s with the, “Well Hillary’s appointment might have been technically unconstitutional, but you know, it’s been done before and it’s really not that big of a deal.”???!!!
The Constitution is a big deal. We all need a serious refocus on that fact.
y2church on January 20, 2009 at 12:50 PM
What really kills me is that Krugman was given the Nobel prize for preaching this garbage. Who’s next for the Nobel in economics, Mugabe?
sublime on January 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Deficit, Schmeficit.
We should take the Soprano’s approach to providing the Global Police Force:
” Nice country you gots there…be a shame if something happened to it…”
Seriously. Any European nation that does not want Putin to start rolling tanks up to their border should be paying the bill for 100% of our military presence (retroactive to 1946). Poof!…Deficit gone, books balanced.
Soprano method applied to middle-eastern countries in the more “literal” fashion.
Gromulin on January 20, 2009 at 12:57 PM
What really kills me is that they gave Krugman the Nobel prize for preaching this garbage. Who’s next for the Nobel in economics…Mugabe?
sublime on January 20, 2009 at 12:57 PM
If the federal government had a FICO score, what would it be? 400 maybe? At the rate they are racking up debt, they wouldn’t even qualify for one of their own govt.-sponsored smoke-and-mirrors loans.
I don’t understand how it is that people and businesses know instinctively that when times are tough and money is scarce, they must tighten their belts. But governments take exactly the opposite approach. I admittedly got a C in macroeconomics so maybe I’m just not getting it, but I got As in history and I know that every time this has been tried in the past, it has been an abysmal failure.
I blame the media for this in large part for manufacturing fear and panic and broadcasting it to the masses where it can multiply and spread across the land. Apparently a large number of alleged “Republican” elected officials have been swept up by the propaganda machine as well. I can only hope that a few strong voices like Govs. Palin and Sanford will be able to make enough noise about this boondoggle such that these pantywaist RINOs will finally locate their cajones and line up behind them.
NoLeftTurn on January 20, 2009 at 12:59 PM
we need to start over
offroadaz on January 20, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Someone should probably tell them that printing money tends to devalue it.
Asher on January 20, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Shhhhhhhh…everyone, rest your weary minds, lay down and take your ease.
Father Obarfa is now in charge and soon it will all be better.
Flowers, bunnies, your every dream come true.
Bishop on January 20, 2009 at 1:01 PM
We’re going to see hyperinflation in one to two years. I don’t think there’s any way around it.
I’d start a betting pool, but it won’t be worth anything to the winner.
ZenDraken on January 20, 2009 at 1:02 PM
The looting of the Treasury continues unabated.
None Dared To Call It Thievery
normsrevenge on January 20, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Someone calculated it. It was like 660 or something.
Can google it and it’ll come up. I’m sure. I think it’s a bit generous, given that it does not take into account future liabilities.
lorien1973 on January 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Why stop at trillions. I say we be audacious and go for the real big kahuna:
$1 quadrillion dollars! That’ll really fix the whole global economy, pay everyone’s mortgage and give us unicorns, lollipop trees and gumdrop bushes.
rbj on January 20, 2009 at 1:05 PM
I’m telling ya, Congress probably wants this more than Obama or his Sec. Treasury. I don’t think the Executive branch has ever had this much appropriations power, both in size and scope. This will be a great way for Congress to get their pork without putting it in legislation and it will allow the executive branch to have an amazing influence over what legislation gets written. I’ve thought for some time that congress would make TARP a permanent entity, filled with trillions to be administered however the Pres. sees fit. This is something new and it is not good.
Weight of Glory on January 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Seems like they are calling for “Warp speed Sulu!”
The cover of National Review is perfect…”It’s Raining Money”
with Obama’s mug soaking it in.
kirkill on January 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Where’s the reset button on this thing?
loudmouth883 on January 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Washington is Big Rock Candy Mountain.
lorien1973 on January 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM
and borrowing to do it.
Vashta.Nerada on January 20, 2009 at 1:13 PM
“Ever get the feeling like we’re just buying time?”
We’re buying something. I just don’t know what.
I feel like someone sold my soul (without my permission) and is now trying to buy it back. And the Devil keeps changing the terms.
UcantCme on January 20, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Pretty soon we’ll be calling Zimbabwe for financial advice.
Nugai on January 20, 2009 at 1:29 PM
No problem . . . we’ve got plenty of paper and ink and the presses are in a high state of maintenance. The down side is that soon it will take 5 pickup loads of five dollar bills to buy a soft drink. Life is good in Obamaland.
rplat on January 20, 2009 at 1:31 PM
We can always print more. Hell, we’re givin’ it away! Get yours now!
juanito on January 20, 2009 at 1:32 PM
What will it take to convince people that Keynesian economics does not work?
There are four reasons why people may not get it:
1. Simple ignorance.
2. Stupidity.
3. Willful ignorance.
4. Desire for power by means of promoting further chaos.
I think it’s all four; however, those in power believe in choice 4 and use the those of the other three. First, promote chaos; chaos causes uncertainty; uncertainty, fear; fear, desire for hope; desire for hope, a savior. While promoting chaos, one needs only to prop up their version of a savior. If you’re of the Marxist persuasion, then government is that savior, promoted via a cult of personality.
None of this is new. Marxist writers have been planning and executing this for decades. One needs only to read their writings to understand their plot.
Send_Me on January 20, 2009 at 1:42 PM
He did get the prize , but the reason doesn’t relate to crisis management. So he’s guessing , like everyone else..
the_nile on January 20, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Ever get the feeling like we’re just buying time?
All the freakin’ time. At best, we’re just treading water, except the bailouts are adding more water to the mix, not draining the basement.
Think this is bad? wait till the Lamest Generation starts retiring in droves. If the bailouts don’t kill us first, that will. Tens of trillions of dollars will be paid to them over the decades they’re retired.
I R A Darth Aggie on January 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM
My mother gave me $200 this Christmas to buy stock. With this kind of crap, I’m buying gold. Who knows? With this going on it may be the only sensible way of saving money.
Chaz706 on January 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Yes, problem is we’re spending an enormous amount of money and we’re getting very little time in return.
AZCoyote on January 20, 2009 at 2:39 PM
It truly is.
Tony Blankley is right this is a huge crapshoot. Our economy is undergirded by foreign central banks buying treasuries from the Fed. What happens if they stop buying and demand payment on outstanding debt? We will give them devalued dollars which they will most likely spend in America on our depreciated assets. Hello inflation.
China will float the yuan, because they have to, we can no longer support their exports and this is putting people out of work. The solution, depegging from the dollar will give the Chinese increased purchasing power and those closed factories can reopen to produce goods that the Chinese want to buy. The Communist Party has learned the lesson of previous unrest. Not obvious from media coverage but Tienamen Square featured workers that were upset over tight money (the central bank raising interest rates) the students did not miss an opportunity to add themselves to the mix as they had been demonstrating for sometime. Why would China risk political instability to save us when it is not in their interest to do so? China is are already trialing the yuan for international purchases. The handwriting is on the wall. Don’t be the last man out!
Theworldisnotenough on January 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Man that is such an ugly thought. But if they can they will the Dept of TARP. *shudders*
Theworldisnotenough on January 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Nope. Buy more ammo for your firearm(s).
rbj on January 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I love my family dearly, but I shudder to think about the economic future that my daughter is going to have.
If you’re thinking of having kids in the near future, maybe now you’ll consider a vasectomy.
Nah, on second thought, have tons of ‘em. If it’s really expensive to pay for my parents’ retirement now, imagine how many little workers it will take to pay for mine (if retirement is even an option at that point).
Pope Linus on January 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Doubt it. Not that it matters when you are scared you’ll do anything.
What cracks me up about the whole situation is that the failures of the banking industry are concentrated in a few major banks. If they go under then the hundreds of small local banks pick up the pieces and the market share. This would give the smaller banks more capital with which to loan to the credit worthy and the uncredit worthy would be back where they started. The market would be cleared of the bad loans. This would give the people that were conservative and saved while housing prices skyrocketed the opportunity to buy a home at a fair market price. Voila! Problem solved. But the media and Paulson hit the panic button just to save his Wall Street buddies.
Also the counter party risk. BofA, Citibank, and AIG probably represent a huge amount of counterparty risk if they did go under then the exchanges themselves would have been at risk. but so be it. If it melts down the the exchanges could be reconstituted by venture capitalist from smaller banks and they will be better run to avoid this in the future. The fear of loss of capital is highly self regulating.
Theworldisnotenough on January 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM
I think you’re on to something.
Ernest on January 20, 2009 at 4:20 PM
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