Breaking: Bush commutes sentences of Ramos and Compean; Update: Will be released on March 20

posted at 12:59 pm on January 19, 2009 by Allahpundit

Just across the AP wire, a gift to the base on his way out the door. Stand by for updates.

Update: Politico put the odds of it happening at 3-1. The major pardons still to come: Libby and CIA interrogators.

Update: WND noted last week that they were under consideration. The difference between a pardon and a commutation:

Rodgers said the former agents apparently are not eligible for a pardon, which would nullify the punishment. But they might be eligible for a commutation, which would result in a reduction of their sentences.

“It could be very possible that the pardon attorney may recommend to President Bush that Ramos and Compean’s sentences might be limited to the time they have already served,” Eichler said.

They’ve been in prison since January 2007.

Update: You can thank the Texas congressional delegation for this, probably. All 34 members signed a letter to Bush last week requesting the commutation.

Update: Even the U.S. Attorney who convicted them thought the punishment didn’t fit the crime.

Mr. Sutton has stood by the convictions but questioned the sentences.

“The only legitimate question, I think a legitimate question, is: ‘Is the punishment too harsh?’ I have always said the punishment in this case was harsh,” Mr. Sutton said on Nov. 14.

Update: Here’s the White House statement. They’re guilty as charged; it’s a simple question of the sentence having been too draconian. Hence the commutation instead of a pardon.

Bush didn’t pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.

The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.

Update: Fox News says their sentences will expire now on March 20; they’d been facing terms of more than 10 years each. I’m looking for an explanation for the two-month delay.


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And SHOULD be shot… DEAD… then throw them back over the boder so others can see what happens if you cross into America and steal jobs, ID’s, jobs and healthcare from OUR families.

Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM

today’s compassionate conservatism: save fetuses, not humans…..

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

you enjoy playing “devils advocate”

you are being charitable to the point of willful ignorance.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Noneya, I am still waiting for your answers and have to leave for a while. Please put in what was Kerry’s plan for Iraq in 04 in your answers. Rememember alot of us do not want to live under your Shira law.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

what does kerry have to do w/ anything? and yeah being gay and all i’m not all that crazy about sharia law either, but remember the christian taliban in this country are far closer to it than i am….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

christian taliban

Who are those? You mean the people who execute gay teens? Yeah, right. Gotta watch out for those christian taliban, I tells ya.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Christian taliban????? Oh Noneya, what do you fear from these Christians in America? Kerry lost because he had no answers for Iraq and sounds like BO doesn’t either. I was wondering what Kerry’s plan was as I am very sure that you voted for him. I have not got one answer in the last four years on that particular question and I am still curious what his plan was. Where is this Christian taliban located. Are they in the Rockies or the Cascades planning a revolution and exterminating everyone that is not a Christian? Are they advocating all girls be expelled in the schools. Where is this being formulated? Remember you have to confront the Lord on Judgement day and He won’t care if you believe or not but He will be there to judge neverthe less. Taking those chances is like making bad bets in Las Vegas.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Hey MadisonConservative , nobody says gun down all illegal… but perhaps its not a bad idea.

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Yes, it is a bad idea, unless, as I said, you want to pull the trigger on the rifle for every female and child illegal alien crossing the border.

Enforce the laws in place, period. Arrest, deport. Arrest, deport. We’re rarely doing it, when we should be doing it all the time.

For you seem to want to let all Mexican comes over , kill , murder and rape Americans…

Don’t even try to pigeonhole me that way, because if you do, you’re not reading my posts. If you’re going to comment on what I want without reading what I say, go eat a box of razor blades. I’m as vehement an anti-amnesty conservative as the next guy, but not this next guy:

And SHOULD be shot… DEAD… then throw them back over the boder so others can see what happens if you cross into America and steal jobs, ID’s, jobs and healthcare from OUR families.

Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM

You don’t read what I say. You don’t read what others say(by claiming that no one here is saying gun down all illegals, as MG just did). Stop saying anything until you have a damned clue what you’re talking about.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Thats what primary challenges are for, I still say this is a net gain for the Democrats among the latino population. That said I think that the GOP is screwed in Texas either way, if latino vote stays stead and Dems can just increase registration that state goes blue in 4 years. If Virginia and N.C. can….

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

You don’t know sh!t. Many of the Latinos in Texas are ‘Texicans’, i.e. of Mexican descent but have been here for several generations, and who cannot stand illegal immigration.

Furthermore, if you didn’t think like such a liberal, you wouldn’t treat all Latinos as if they were just one, big, monolithic group of people that all think alike.

thirteen28 on January 19, 2009 at 4:24 PM

you are being charitable to the point of willful ignorance.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Couldn’t resist starting it up, could you? Let’s see some of that wonderful posting content of yours that you’re so famous for.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

One more thing Noneya, the fetus has a soul when Jesus told us that He knew us before we were even born. There is more to the fetus then you let on. Go ahead and justify all these views and hope you don’t regret them later.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

They were charged with misconduct in the shooting and wounding of a suspect and their following cover-up of their use of lethal force with the intent to murder. What statute was he supposed to charge them under, a misdemeanor?

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Wise man, the statute of using a firearm to commit a crime was not intended to be applied to border patrol agents who are not merely authorized to carry a firearm in their official duties, but are required to do so. That’s where the excessive part of the sentence came from. That law was never meant to be applied to law enforcement types acting in their official capacity.

Had they been convicted on every other charge save for that one, their sentences would have been no more than two years each. And Sutton’s statement regarding the excessiveness of the sentences is a de facto admission that he abused his prosecutorial discretion when he brought that charge.

thirteen28 on January 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

go jump in front of a truck.
MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:30 PM

.. LOL … “your” ….

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM

According to America’s Most Wanted (7/29/08), the smuggler, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila is now behind bars, serving a 57-consecutive-month sentence on charges of smuggling a ton of marijuana into the U.S.

America’s Most Wanted

fgh on January 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM

I am not really for shooting them if they are sneaking accross, but we do need a way to deter them from coming. since we are not building the wall, and deporting them doenst work cause they just come back, and it is very dangerous to try to arrest them --Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

I agree –What will it take for our government to enforce the border laws? Sneaking in is illegal-ill legal means against the law. The minute anyone “sneaks” in they become a criminal. There is nothing racist about wanting the laws enforced. How would America feel is God forbid in the next 4 years a large terrorist group came over the Mexican border illegally and decided to pull something in the United States that was vast and devastating something so terrible that it left no doubt in peoples minds that Obama was inept at protecting Americans. The the entire left would be bashing Bush for his not enforcing the border laws-and then turn around and call the GOP racists…. This is something that should be weighing heavily in the new administration’s minds. I dont care anymore if they give amnesty now,we are in so deep that I personally feel there is no turning the clock back and although we have given amnesty before and it has not worked,we have not tried to secure the borders to any great extent. So lets do that,provide a deterrent for not coming in legally and enforce that to the max–and then work to get an account of all the illegals-to either make them legal or if they have a criminal record– get them out.

I hold hard to this fact-if the laws that exist on the books are not serving the purpose they were intended to serve then there will be agents of law who go outside of the law. This is a case of 2 wrongs-the illegal who got his butt shot and the cops who failed to follow protocols. If these cops had foiled a terrorist on his way to attack in the U.S. would they be hailed as heros. I wont go into how terrorism has so many different facets(I do believe drug runners are part of that),but we need plan,one that is enforceable and one that the U.S. is ready to move on now. I apologize if I have offended anyone with my rambling on. The international community believes that the U.S. is in a weakened state atm, thats prime momentum for a terrorist strike in areas we would not even begin to suspect.

canditaylor68 on January 19, 2009 at 4:31 PM

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM

I don’t like being called a racist. Or a traitor. Some posters resort to those labels, and they’re peas from the same pod.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Oh, so now I am calling you a racist or a traitor now?

You are really losing your grip on reality.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:35 PM

Oh, so now I am calling you a racist or a traitor now?

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:35 PM

No. Noneya is calling myself (and you, and most of the others on this board) racists. You called people who criticize McCain guilty of “treason” by “helping to elect Obama”. Same pod.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:39 PM

o.. i guess somebody did say shoot them all… well crap my bad on that one – but less a few , shooting unarmed women and children is not okay. but Shooting a drug dealer who in all likelihood had a gun, as most drug dealers do, (and as the border agents say so) – perhaps if we did start shooting all the bad guys, they would have less incentive to do “business” or crime in America… regardless, our border angels (agents :p) should always have the benefit of the doubt- same as our soldiers in Iraq – If an innocent does happen to die in a cross fire, it is not murder – and if it is, it should be place soley on the poeple who put them in that situation. We should not send our Boys in green into a War where they have to wait until shot at to return fire. (though this does not excuse the very very few asshats in the military who did murder some innocent Iraqi’s) – just like our border – IF OUR COUNTRY IS NOT GOING TO PROTECT or defend our own borders, why hire border agents? if it is their job to stop the drug traffickers , then when the Crap hits the fan the USA should go to bat for our boys. Our boys are put into very dangerous situations and we expect them to conduct themselves with saint-like valor, where as the majority of us could never live up to the standards we are placing on our boys (and border angels alike , and yes i mean to put angels)

These 2 agents did not deserve to go to jail, they technically did not kill the guy – they had reasonable doubt with any REAL jury that the guy had a gun, plus he should never of been allowed to come back to American and testify, being a known criminal he should of been detained into prison…. come to Louisiana send him to Angola :)

And no, i did not read all the comments , i am at work plus there is 4 pages! i only read 3-4 comments from you so… might be my bad on my presumption

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:39 PM

people who criticize McCain guilty of “treason”

wow, you really are mentally deranged.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM

I have always been torn on this whole immigration issue. On one hand, I’m a big proponent of securing the borders and I feel that the border patrol agents’ job is a very difficult one. I do feel that those agents were trying to stop a drug trafficker and got themselves into a very sticky predicament.
On the other hand, I see plenty of families in south Texas who are here illegally, who work very hard and are trying to make a life for themselves here. Anyone who has seen a border town can attest to the fact that they are the worst of the worst. Many, many, many call “lean-to’s” and shanties, home. No running water, no plumbing, no electricity. Just lots of unimaginable poverty. I can’t blame Mexicans for coming here. I’d do whatever I could to live in the United States, too.
That being said, I think the border patrol should focus more on the illegal drug trade and not on the individuals who try to move here to make a better life for themselves.

OK, let the slamming begin.

pullingmyhairout on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Next time, leave off, the “OK, let the slamming begin” part.

My take: The Border Patrol and the INS are obligated to enforce our laws AS THEY ARE. The executive branch cannot pick and choose the laws it will enforce (although it can prioritize enforcement). If others feel that these laws are immoral or unethical, they are obligated to ignore them. If enough feel this way, we are a democracy and the laws will be changed.

So far, not enough feel this way; the laws on the books mandate that we catch and remove.

As Noneya points out, the Republicans are on record as being hard on illegals (as they are hard on most law-and-order policies), but the Democrats are nearly as hard when you look at the votes — they are just using the Republicans for cover. At least the Republicans are honest about these things, as they are in most, and honesty sometimes loses votes.

Noneya, I doubt you are going to see the Democrats vote an amnesty or an open border. You can hope, but it just ain’t gonna happen, because whatever motivates the Repubs, the Dems have those motives too.

unclesmrgol on January 19, 2009 at 4:45 PM

GWB kept the standard of judgment high on the performance of his troops and border patrol agents. He must feel his own performance met the standard of perfection he demands of them.

Well, Bush didn’t want to leave any room for Obama to claim precedence to allow Progressive Thugs fascist manners.

Who knows. Maybe Obama will want to one-up Bush on “compassion” and issue their pardon himself.

I’m glad that they are not going to rot away for the 10 years in prison. Wish they’d be released today, though, with full pardons!

maverick muse on January 19, 2009 at 4:45 PM

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

She won’t answer, rarely does, she is a hit and runner, I really don’t know why she isn’t banned, not because she doesn’t agree with the site, but because she only hijacks it, adds no real debate…and seldom, if ever, answers any challenge.
Don’t feed her, and she will get bored and go away.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:46 PM

umm somethings wrong i posted this but it hasn’t showed up so i will try again – sorry for rambling i am at work so i keep getting up and coming back

o.. i guess somebody did say shoot them all… well crap my bad on that one – But for the vast majority of us , shooting unarmed women and children is not okay. but Shooting a drug dealer who in all likelihood had a gun, as most drug dealers do, (and as the border agents say so) – perhaps if we did start shooting all the bad guys, they would have less incentive to do “business” or crime in America… regardless, our border angels (agents :p) should always have the benefit of the doubt- same as our soldiers in Iraq – If an innocent does happen to die in a cross fire, it is not murder – and if it is, it should be place solely on the people who put them in that situation. We should not send our Boys in green into a War where they have to wait until shot at to return fire. (though this does not excuse the very very few asshats in the military who did murder some innocent Iraqi’s) – just like our border – IF OUR COUNTRY IS NOT GOING TO PROTECT or defend our own borders, why hire border agents? if it is their job to stop the drug traffickers , then when the Crap hits the fan the USA should go to bat for our boys. Our boys are put into very dangerous situations and we expect them to conduct themselves with saint-like valor, where as the majority of us could never live up to the standards we are placing on our boys (and border angels alike , and yes i mean to put angels)

These 2 agents did not deserve to go to jail, they technically did not kill the guy – they had reasonable doubt with any REAL jury that the guy had a gun, plus he should never of been allowed to come back to American and testify, being a known criminal he should of been detained into prison…. come to Louisiana send him to Angola :)

And no, i did not read all the comments , i am at work plus there is 4 pages! i only read 3-4 comments from you so… might be my bad on my presumption

I guess i listen to too much Micheal Savage

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Couldn’t resist starting it up, could you? Let’s see some of that wonderful posting content of yours that you’re so famous for.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

You are wasting your time…he shoots blanks.
Look at the previous posts with me, he legally agrees with me, then says I have a serious misunderstanding of law…a little confused with the object of a debate and discussion.
Wise_man here is a tip when trying to convince someone they are wrong don’t say “you are wrong and I agree with you”…
not very effective…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

No. Noneya is calling myself (and you, and most of the others on this board) racists.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 4:39 PM

nothing written here today suggests otherwise.

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM

One more thing Noneya, the fetus has a soul when Jesus told us that

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

unlike those pesky illegals?

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:47 PM

I don’t know about shooting “all illegals”, but there is a difference between someone who is running in to find a job, and someone running in to break the law (I know they are both breaking the law, but have some common sense)…one is an “evader” and the other an “invader”. The invader is exactly that, someone who is invading our country to undermine it, shooting them doesn’t bother me.
Shooting Jose because his family is starving and he is looking to America for a better opportunity…sorry, can’t put him in the same category.
There is a better way to deal with Jose the evader.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Please don’t feed the troll…God knows she is well fed…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

I didn’t agree with you. You like to try to put words into other people’s mouths, just like madison. You said

They, legally, did the right thing, our country of “laws” forces you to lie and cover-up.
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:27 PM

And while a lawyer may suggest that someone lie and plead innocent when they are guilty, these did not “legaly, did the right thing.” Your opinion, and you are wrong.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM

because whatever motivates the Repubs, the Dems have those motives too.

unclesmrgol on January 19, 2009 at 4:45 PM

Just look who is getting the prime seats at the inauguration party…the wall street investors and bankers what a coincidence.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

what does kerry have to do w/ anything? and yeah being gay and all i’m not all that crazy about sharia law either, but remember the christian taliban in this country are far closer to it than i am….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

I’m afraid sharia law would end your endless tirades upon us, noneya.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:01 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

The funny thing is, I’ve been arguing the same as his position most of the thread. Doesn’t matter. He’ll take any chance for a dig at me, even if I haven’t addressed him. I wish he’d never refer to me or address me again. I guess I wish for too much.

nothing written here today suggests otherwise.

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Nothing you’ve posted suggests you’re anything but a liberal troll. You utterly refuse to address the fact that we have no illegal alien problem with our northern border, but you equivocate it with the 12 million problems we have with our southern border. You are in favor of an act that rewards 12 million illegal aliens for the crime of invading our nation, and you try to eliminate opposition by accusing anyone who disagrees of being racist. You’re an intellectually dishonest troll du jour, and you need to either start coming up with honest contributions to the discussion, or go see how long you can hold your head underwater before you drown, and then keep it under an extra five minutes.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

I was wondering what Kerry’s plan was as I am very sure that you voted for him. I have not got one answer in the last four years on that particular question and I am still curious what his plan was.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:24 PM

ever heard of google? and yeah i did vote for him, are you saying he would have done a worse job than rumsfeld?

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

wow, you really are mentally deranged.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM

Of course. You’ve never called people traitor for criticizing McCain. What was I thinking?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

You are in favor of an act that rewards 12 million illegal aliens for the crime of invading our nation, and you try to eliminate opposition by accusing anyone who disagrees of being racist. You’re an intellectually dishonest troll du jour, and you need to either start coming up with honest contributions to the discussion, or go see how long you can hold your head underwater before you drown, and then keep it under an extra five minutes.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

didn’t i just say that i supported mccain/kennedy? it’s not amnesty, in fact, it’s tougher than anything your messiah reagan ever did. i contributed that but it doesn’t change the fact that your party is RACIST. you want more proof? check out that Oscar grant thread the other day or any other post regarding race.

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

I didn’t agree with you. You like to try to put words into other people’s mouths…wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Let me help you:
I posted:

So, you are saying that Jefferson will receive a more harsh sentence then if he told the truth?
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

And you responded with:

No. I’m just worried…
wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 3:03 P

Hence you agreed with me…unless you think now that Jefferson would have received a lessor sentence if he had told the truth…but I can only respond to what you write, and you wrote you agreed with me.
Hope this helps you understand…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM

And now you are posting irrelevant comments to someone else from other pages in order to move the conversation from Bush’s commutation to an off-topic dig at me that you started.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

I’m afraid sharia law would end your endless tirades upon us, noneya.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:01 PM

yup, what’s your point? when did i ever say i approve of sharia law? you guys are the ones who are religious nuts like the taliban

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Ouch, he got a double whammy from you and me…looks like this inning is over…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

So, you are saying that Jefferson will receive a more harsh sentence then if he told the truth?
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

No. I’m just worried that someone with your complete lack of understanding of law ever participate in our legal system.
wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 3:03 PM

“No” means that I didn’t agree with you.ANd your point of Jefferson was irrelevant to my comment about your ignorance.

Don’t be an idiot

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

it’s not amnesty

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Did John McCain just post?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

I honestly hope you are a nicer person in real life than than the persona you take on in this forum. You come off as a bitter hate-filled moron. If that is a true picture than you really are pathetic.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

million problems we have with our southern border. You are in favor of an act that rewards 12 million illegal aliens for the crime of invading our nation, and you try to eliminate opposition by accusing anyone who disagrees of being racist. You’re an intellectually dishonest troll du jour, and you need to either start coming up with honest contributions to the discussion, or go see how long you can hold your head underwater before you drown, and then keep it under an extra five minutes.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

+10000

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Thanks, GW!!!

dec5 on January 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Gee, where could I have gotten the idea to do that?

Hypocrite.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

I honestly hope you are a nicer person in real life than than the persona you take on in this forum. You come off as a bitter hate-filled moron. If that is a true picture than you really are pathetic.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

Uh huh.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Wow, look at that, on those two links you said d*bag and a*hole. What a potty mouth you are, madison. But I’m sure you said you never act that way. I guess you were mistaken. Your off-topic deviation from the subject of this page is tiresome, begone troll.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

And even more off topic comments from you.

Still obsessed with me? Can’t respond without insulting me? You should stop. You should stop.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Your off-topic deviation from the subject of this page is tiresome, begone troll.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Next time, don’t start the deviation:

you are being charitable to the point of willful ignorance.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:26 PM

wow, someone made a comment, and I made a comment and then you posted a dozen off topic links. you’re just digging your hole deeper and deeper, madison.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:27 PM

wow, someone made a comment, and I made a comment…

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Just a comment, eh? Well I just posted links.

Keep trying, pal. Keep trying.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:28 PM

Although the two border agents were culpable to a degree, being in jail for approximately 2 years seems like a larger punishment than what should have happened. I’m very glad that W commuted their sentences.

Red State State of Mind on January 19, 2009 at 5:28 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:28 PM

Still obsessed with me? Can’t let something drop because you want to keep it going for hours? You should stop.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Didn’t we already “fix” the illegal immigration problem about 10 years ago with the amnesty and the plan for businesses to toughen their enforcement?

Red State State of Mind on January 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM

yup, what’s your point? when did i ever say i approve of sharia law? you guys are the ones who are religious nuts like the taliban

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Religious nuts….better than a liberal wingnut with low moral standards and a skewed point of view.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:36 PM

You should stop.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:32 PM

You shouldn’t start, like you did an hour ago. Don’t start again, and there won’t be a deviation.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:36 PM

“No” means that I didn’t agree with you.ANd your point of Jefferson was irrelevant to my comment about your ignorance.

Don’t be an idiot

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

So you think if Jefferson admitted he did wrong he would get a lighter sentence…don’t be an idiot.
And the subject was…our system encourages people to lie, not to admit guilt.
You disagree with that statement…you and one other person who lives in Maine.
You think our legal system encourages people to tell the truth, to come clean because if they don’t their sentence will be much greater…don’t be an idiot.
When was the last politician who admitted he had done wrong before his trial?
Anyone remember even one case of hundreds?

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM

Oh, and what do the people who made the claim “that no good Boosh won’t pardon Ramos and Compean because he loves all mexicans, hates Americans and doesn’t want to embarrass his good friend the texas prosecutor Sutton!” have to say in response.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I think you sort of just answered it. He was prodded into doing it by those people.

Buddahpundit on January 19, 2009 at 5:38 PM

Still obsessed with me? Can’t let something drop because you want to keep it going for hours? You should stop.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Madison, I have to agree with wise_man…stop, you are making wise_man look foolish…really stop it, it is embarrassing.
In fact, I am going to stop also for the same reason.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:40 PM

You shouldn’t start, like you did an hour ago. Don’t start again, and there won’t be a deviation.
MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:36 PM

still obsessed. Still won’t let it go.

So you think if Jefferson admitted he did wrong he would get a lighter sentence…don’t be an idiot.
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM

I didn’t bring up jefferson. you did. and don’t try to put words in my mouth. that’s the other guys’s trick.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:44 PM

Wow, the never ending wise_man/Madison saga continues. Strange, but oddly entertaining at the same time. BTW Madison, good takes on this topic. CapitalistPig, who is evidently a federal LEO, has the most reasoned and credible viewpoint on the Ramos and Compean commutations IMHO. Interesting, but predictable, to see Hornet agree with out in left field likes of Donut and MarkG.

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 5:45 PM

Oh, and what do the people who made the claim “that no good Boosh won’t pardon Ramos and Compean because he loves all mexicans, hates Americans and doesn’t want to embarrass his good friend the texas prosecutor Sutton!” have to say in response.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Uh Wise, I appreciate President Bush keeping us safe for the last seven years, but you can’t deny that he was really BAD for immigration/relations with Mexico.

-Comprehensive immigration reform….amnesty would destroy this country…more pigs at the welfare trough.
-Siding against excuting that scumbag Mexican illegal alien that raped, tortured and killed those two teenage girls in Houston, Texas.
-Giving money to a collapsing nation, under the crush of drug cartels and rampant corruption…the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome…we keep giving money, they keep taking it and NOTHING is done in return. Better to use the money toward keeping the filth out, drugs and criminals.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:47 PM

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 5:45 PM

It’s better than a cage match, dakine. Entertaining.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:48 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:40 PM

I’m sorry. It’s hard not to do so when the guy starts talking about me and then complains when I respond.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:48 PM

And here you are talking about me again.

You should stop.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM

It’s better than a cage match, dakine. Entertaining.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Careful you don’t get thrown into the cage, as you’ve made it a battle royale more than once.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM

Interesting, but predictable, to see Hornet agree with out in left field likes of Donut and MarkG.

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 5:45 PM

Yeah, since my husband walks that line. I don’t agree that we should shoot or incarcerate them, but something needs to be done to stem the flow. Say, going after the companies that hire them.
Thank you for knowing just exactly how I am. You don’t know me…stop trying to psychoanalyze me.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Careful you don’t get thrown into the cage, as you’ve made it a battle royale more than once.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM

Bring the oil, Madison.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Bring the oil, Madison.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:51 PM

I prefer Jell-O. Lime.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Bring the oil, Madison.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I prefer Jell-O. Lime.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Yum, a man after my own heart….I prefer cherry.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Their wives are on FOX now with Glenn Beck. Beck’s staff were the ones to break the good news to them.

Disturb the Universe on January 19, 2009 at 5:56 PM

Here’s the White House statement. They’re guilty as charged;

Hell yes they’re guilty. I can live with these men on the streets — but not with a pardon. They did it. They’re guilty. There’s never been any real question of that.

Mark Jaquith on January 19, 2009 at 5:57 PM

I didn’t bring up jefferson. you did. and don’t try to put words in my mouth. that’s the other guys’s trick.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 5:44 PM

It is called an analogy, you know when making a point to use an example…like when you think that people get an easier sentence when they tell the truth…then I pull out an example, Jefferson, and show where I do not think it would have been true in his case, and then go on and challenge you to find other examples that prove your point, or disprove mine.
That is how one normally discusses; you use actual examples and statements to back ones claims…I used an example(s), and threw out a challenge for you and other to find examples that counter punch. You don’t have any, so you attack with personal insults.
So let me ask you again…do you think our legal system encourages people to lie or tell the truth to be more exact: Do you think public figures tend to tell the truth so they will get a lessor sentence, or do they lie because it shows it will benefit them in the long run?
That should be simple for you to answer, there have been many instances lately…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 5:59 PM

I GOT IT!

March 20th is to give the drug dealers he pardoned a head start.

- The Cat

MirCat on January 19, 2009 at 6:00 PM

Hell yes they’re guilty. I can live with these men on the streets — but not with a pardon. They did it. They’re guilty. There’s never been any real question of that.

Mark Jaquith on January 19, 2009 at 5:57 PM

They were guilty of shooting armed illegal invaders, who were drug dealers…they shot one in the butt, wounding him as he was trying to escape…absolutely guilty of protecting the U.S., and punishing the wrong doers.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 6:02 PM

yup, what’s your point? when did i ever say i approve of sharia law? you guys are the ones who are religious nuts like the taliban

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Are you equating, the murdering, terrorist, beheading taliban with Christians?

Johan Klaus on January 19, 2009 at 6:03 PM

It’s fun to watch the deranged left go nuts!

grapeknutz on January 19, 2009 at 6:03 PM

And SHOULD be shot… DEAD… then throw them back over the boder so others can see what happens if you cross into America and steal jobs, ID’s, jobs and healthcare from OUR families.

Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM

today’s compassionate conservatism: save fetuses, not humans…..

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Fetuses ain’t broke no law. The humans have. A border is a border. Otherwise, it’s just a joke.

Liberty is dead.

klickink.wordpress.com on January 19, 2009 at 6:08 PM

Thank you, Bush.

Urban Infidel on January 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM

and yeah being gay and all i’m not all that crazy about sharia law either, but remember the christian taliban in this country are far closer to it than i am….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Christian Taliban? Here? Uh, I don’t think that’s possible. But since you claim to be gay, then that means you psychological deranged anyway, and can’t think straight.

klickink.wordpress.com on January 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

You’re just being emotional.

- The Cat

MirCat on January 19, 2009 at 6:12 PM

They were guilty of shooting armed illegal invaders, who were drug dealers…they shot one in the butt, wounding him as he was trying to escape…absolutely guilty of protecting the U.S., and punishing the wrong doers.

They shot an unarmed man in the back. They tampered with evidence. They failed to report the incident. They lied about it. They were rightly convicted, and today the White House upheld their conviction. They get a break on their sentence as a bone thrown to rabid anti-immigration Conservatives.

Mark Jaquith on January 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Are you equating, the murdering, terrorist, beheading taliban with Christians?

Johan Klaus on January 19, 2009 at 6:03 PM

The answer is yes, she does…don’t feed the troll…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 6:19 PM

and can’t think straight.

klickink.wordpress.com on January 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Did you mean that? That is a funny line.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 6:20 PM

How about that Great Wall of Mexico ? any takers? we can see all the pretty Artwork done by MS16 (isnt that the name of the Latino equalivant of Hells Angels in prison?)

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 6:26 PM

They shot an unarmed man in the back. They tampered with evidence. They failed to report the incident. They lied about it. They were rightly convicted, and today the White House upheld their conviction. They get a break on their sentence as a bone thrown to rabid anti-immigration Conservatives.

Mark Jaquith on January 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Wrong, they shot him in the butt, not the “back” but the side of the butt. They reported the incident to the superiors. They tampered with evidence…as I said they were guilty.
They were also guilty of protecting the U.S…you side with the Mexican drug dealers, I side with the border patrol…you and I disagree where to put our allegiance.
I think Mexican drug dealers who invade our country to sell drugs have very little rights, they have the right to live, but not the right not to be shot at or wounded.
You think improper paperwork and the fear of prosecution is a greater threat then illegal drug dealers crossing our borders. We disagree…you have sympathy for drug dealers, I have none…you and I disagree.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Hornet, bad cops give the goods one a bad name. You should know that better than most, so when you continually defend incompetent, corrupt, or worse cops regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you lose all credibility and work against your own interests. CapitalistPig said it as well as it can be said.

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 6:32 PM

We disagree…you have sympathy for drug dealers, I have none…you and I disagree.

Well, Mark has a point, If we shoot all the drug dealers what else will he spend his welfare check on?

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Well, Mark has a point, If we shoot all the drug dealers what else will he spend his welfare check on?

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 6:33 PM

You know, just when you think you have the answer, someone like you comes along and adds that special touch…I just never thought about that.
With this bad economy, we have to keep everyone working, selling and buying…thanks for straightening me out.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 6:40 PM

I just pray something is done to stem the flow. Bush couldnt stop illegal immigration and now the laws are working more in favor of illegals. Until serious deterrents are put in place the flow of drug dealers,gangsters and terrorists will continue along with Mexican refugees,more so now that the drug cartels are warring with authorities and each other.

canditaylor68 on January 19, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Gott sei Dank!

Glenn Jericho on January 19, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Well, imho, if 1 million Mexicans came into the US today, and only 1 of the 1 million actually killed somebody… 1 American life is worth more to me and 999999 good people having a “better life”. No life for 1 > better life for many

But hey, that’s just my opinion, im an evil person for valuing lives of the law abiding over the comfort level of the law breaking..

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 6:51 PM

They get a break on their sentence as a bone thrown to rabid anti-immigration Conservatives.

Mark Jaquith on January 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM

WOOF !! Grrrr…… Slurp ..

Red State State of Mind on January 19, 2009 at 6:52 PM

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 6:32 PM

You know, I don’t know why you have such a h-on for me, guess you like bees or something, but I really DON’T care what you have to say, so blow it somewhere eles. Capiche?

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 6:54 PM

#1 problemo,I wish these pages read first to last rather than last to first.
#2 problem I’m glad Ramos and Compean were commuted,but I’d rather George Bustamante, el Presidente de Mexico,totally pardoned them,rather than giving them a simple commutation.
bye
liz

lizzee on January 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Too little, too late!
Compean and Ramos were railroaded with ZERO evidence unless people are stupid enough to believe a CONVICTED drug dealer who claims he was shot in Texas and caught by Border patrol three months later, illegally crossing the Arizona border attempting to smuggle drugs into the U.S.
Zero forensic evidence and railroaded by Johnny Sutton, who has had numerous complaints filed against him by the D.E.A. for connections with drug smuggling over the Mexican border.
People are very ignorant to the particulars in this case and IF and I can’t stress clearly enough, IF either Ramos or Compean actually shot this criminal, (and NO forensic evidence exists to prove that either man shot anyone), the ONLY thing Compean and Ramos are guilty of is terrible marksmanship.
Compean and Ramos should have gotten a full pardon two years ago but now will carry felony convictions for the rest of their lives.

SO MUCH FOR THE RULE OF LAW IN THE U.S.

nelsonknows on January 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Apparently you like Sharia law since you don’t care if it comes to the USA or not NOneya, and where are these Christian talibaners located? Ive asked you where they are stationed at and you havn’t given me the location. Your party doesn’t seem to know how to deal with the true taliban and remember they won’t negotiate without total victory on their part. You not knowing what Kerry’s plan is tells me that you still have no plan to stop the advance of Sharia law. Yes the illegals have a soul because Jesus said so unless you want to call him liar as well.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 7:11 PM

#1 problemo,I wish these pages read first to last rather than last to first.
#2 problem I’m glad Ramos and Compean were commuted,but I’d rather George Bustamante, el Presidente de Mexico,totally pardoned them,rather than giving them a simple commutation.
bye
liz

lizzee on January 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Too little, too late!
Compean and Ramos were railroaded with ZERO evidence unless people are stupid enough to believe a CONVICTED drug dealer who claims he was shot in Texas and caught by Border patrol three months later, illegally crossing the Arizona border attempting to smuggle drugs into the U.S.
Zero forensic evidence and railroaded by Johnny Sutton, who has had numerous complaints filed against him by the D.E.A. for connections with drug smuggling over the Mexican border.
People are very ignorant to the particulars in this case and IF and I can’t stress clearly enough, IF either Ramos or Compean actually shot this criminal, (and NO forensic evidence exists to prove that either man shot anyone), the ONLY thing Compean and Ramos are guilty of is terrible marksmanship.
Compean and Ramos should have gotten a full pardon two years ago but now will carry felony convictions for the rest of their lives.

SO MUCH FOR THE RULE OF LAW IN THE U.S.

nelsonknows on January 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Agreed. And agree it should have been a pardon.

Glynn on January 19, 2009 at 7:12 PM

But since you claim to be gay, then that means you psychological deranged anyway, and can’t think straight.

klickink.wordpress.com on January 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM

haha says the person who prays to a sky god with a gray beard!

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Outstanding,

and way too long overdue,

thank-you,

President Bush!

canopfor on January 19, 2009 at 7:29 PM

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