Breaking: Bush commutes sentences of Ramos and Compean; Update: Will be released on March 20

posted at 12:59 pm on January 19, 2009 by Allahpundit

Just across the AP wire, a gift to the base on his way out the door. Stand by for updates.

Update: Politico put the odds of it happening at 3-1. The major pardons still to come: Libby and CIA interrogators.

Update: WND noted last week that they were under consideration. The difference between a pardon and a commutation:

Rodgers said the former agents apparently are not eligible for a pardon, which would nullify the punishment. But they might be eligible for a commutation, which would result in a reduction of their sentences.

“It could be very possible that the pardon attorney may recommend to President Bush that Ramos and Compean’s sentences might be limited to the time they have already served,” Eichler said.

They’ve been in prison since January 2007.

Update: You can thank the Texas congressional delegation for this, probably. All 34 members signed a letter to Bush last week requesting the commutation.

Update: Even the U.S. Attorney who convicted them thought the punishment didn’t fit the crime.

Mr. Sutton has stood by the convictions but questioned the sentences.

“The only legitimate question, I think a legitimate question, is: ‘Is the punishment too harsh?’ I have always said the punishment in this case was harsh,” Mr. Sutton said on Nov. 14.

Update: Here’s the White House statement. They’re guilty as charged; it’s a simple question of the sentence having been too draconian. Hence the commutation instead of a pardon.

Bush didn’t pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.

The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.

Update: Fox News says their sentences will expire now on March 20; they’d been facing terms of more than 10 years each. I’m looking for an explanation for the two-month delay.


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So he is going to let Scooter Libby rot in jail!

Once again, the article specifically states that Libby did not request a full pardon.

Tanya on January 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Does anyone else find it ironic that these people who want the summary execution & murder of these invaiders and ileagles… … are doing so because they want our laws enforced in regard with our borders?

I mean, how about just trying to be logically consistent with this one.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:18 PM

I have always been torn on this whole immigration issue. On one hand, I’m a big proponent of securing the borders and I feel that the border patrol agents’ job is a very difficult one. I do feel that those agents were trying to stop a drug trafficker and got themselves into a very sticky predicament.
On the other hand, I see plenty of families in south Texas who are here illegally, who work very hard and are trying to make a life for themselves here. Anyone who has seen a border town can attest to the fact that they are the worst of the worst. Many, many, many call “lean-to’s” and shanties, home. No running water, no plumbing, no electricity. Just lots of unimaginable poverty. I can’t blame Mexicans for coming here. I’d do whatever I could to live in the United States, too.
That being said, I think the border patrol should focus more on the illegal drug trade and not on the individuals who try to move here to make a better life for themselves.

OK, let the slamming begin.

pullingmyhairout on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Well, this is just great, really great news.
These two should have never received the sentence, at the most 6 months probation, and maybe 30 days without pay.
I am really happy for them and their families, along with the many guardsmen who supported them.
Imagine, getting ten years for shooting border invaders, drug runners, and shooting one of them in the butt…they should have received a reward for restraint, and not killing them…or remove their shooting medal for not being accurate.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Just heard on the radio that this is Buah’s last act if pardon & commutation for his Presidency. So he is going to let Scooter Libby rot in jail! I’m sorry but Pres. Bush’s Compassionate Conservative….
Sultry Beauty on January 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Well now.

Okay ….. so …. Sultry Beauty, which jail is Scooter Libby being kept right now? By the horrible person, “Buah”.

I bet you don’t know the answer to that question, am I right?

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

MadisonConservative:

Shoot them? Naw … I’m thinking lion pits.

I think a few warning shots, and maybe kneecapping a few of the more stubborn idiots will get the message across, without the need to kill women and children.

After a few casualties, only young men would be stupid enough to make the attempt.

All that being said, punishing the illegals’ employers, deporting illegals, and moving anchor babies away from their felon parents and into foster homes, would correct this problem in short order … the only folks left trying to cross illegally would be smugglers and terrorists … perfectly good targets for a military border unit.

Kristopher on January 19, 2009 at 2:22 PM

It is the right thing to do. Thank you President Bush.

As for a commute vs. a pardon, they lied under oath and tried to cover up what they did. I understand that this “victim” was a scum drug dealer, but we are a nation of laws. They should have lost their jobs, and faced some punishment, but 10 years is way too harsh.

Mr. Joe on January 19, 2009 at 2:22 PM

OK, let the slamming begin.

pullingmyhairout on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Having lived in Ca for so many years, I share the sentiment…drug and illegal trafficking should be a priority, and securing the borders “logically”, not excessively.
And yes, some of our very best citizens are “illegal”, and some of our worst are illegal.
What we need is a logical way to assimilate, properly, immigrants.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Because conservatives love mexicans…. who kill other mexicans

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Pres Bush i voted for you both times i,m sorry to say .with this non action on pardons for these 2 men you will forever be know as a lightweight who was afraid to make the libs mad.So much for trying to set a new consev.tone with the Dems & Libs.

thmcbb on January 19, 2009 at 2:25 PM

To the lefties who prefer that these two men be imprisioned further and wanting open borders I a couple of questions. Do you live in gated communities such as NancyP., HarryR, and other pro open border folks. How many times have you had druggies in your neighborhood murdered and your garage tagged up repeatedly by the gangs of south of the border? Don’t tell me the Anglos have done it because there are non in this town or the surrounding towns of a thirty mile radius. If you think these two border guards are guily maybe we should follow Mexico’s model and copy their border enforcement procedure.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 2:26 PM

As for a commute vs. a pardon, they lied under oath and tried to cover up what they did. I understand that this “victim” was a scum drug dealer, but we are a nation of laws. They should have lost their jobs, and faced some punishment, but 10 years is way too harsh.

Mr. Joe on January 19, 2009 at 2:22 PM

You should be able to see why they “lied”, telling the truth would have got them the same sentence, and probably no chance for a pardon.
Telling the truth, unfortunately, holds no value in our legal society. When was the last time you saw a politician step forward and say, “alright, I did it”…when you do that you are punished far more severely then when you lie.
They, legally, did the right thing, our country of “laws” forces you to lie and cover-up.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:27 PM

They, legally, did the right thing, our country of “laws” forces you to lie and cover-up.
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:27 PM

please, tell me you’ve never been on jury duty

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Thanks CapitalistPig. For what you do, the way you do it, and your reasoned and rational takes on this subject. You couldn’t be more spot on. Guys like Mark give conservatives a bad name and represent a way of thinking that is very dangerous.

dakine on January 19, 2009 at 2:29 PM

Awesome! Now watch Texas go blue by 2012. Communities don’t forget these kinds of things and when the outgoing GOP President commutes these guys, the next Dem organizer who rides into south texas to register Mexican Americans will not be able to give away registration forms fast enough. Latinos make up over 20% of the eligible voting population in Texas, as of now only 11% of them are registered to vote. That’s about to change and fast. And if you think that 60% latinos voting for Democrats was bad this cycle, watch it jump to 80% in the next set of elections after this. Congrats Minutemen/KKK folks, you got what you wanted, but it’s a pyrrhic victory.

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Exquisite! So glad he commuted, although pardon would have been ideal.

garydt, ur correct. For all the libs who live away from the border and the severe problems associated with it, their lack of direct knowledge of all that goes on down there is what gives them their misinformed views. They ought to try living with Mexico’s poverty in their lap. And paying for it too. Then let’s see how liberal they stay.

thetowncrier on January 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM

’bout time, Mr. President.

worlok on January 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM

We are a nation of laws when the laws are enforced.

While San Francisco’s sanctuary city ordinance may have been well-intentioned, it has resulted in an untenable and anarchic situation that is taking its toll on city residents and surrounding counties alike. Providing sanctuary for law-breakers at the expense of law-abiding citizens is neither a compassionate nor a moral approach. The issue is not one of callousness towards illegal immigrants, but rather, the duty owed American citizens by their government. In some respects, every layer of the government has failed this test, but in this case, it’s the local government that is absconding on its duties.

canditaylor68 on January 19, 2009 at 2:34 PM

I wished he would have pardoned them
For these two didnt committ a crime..
The DRUG DEALER from mexico did..

I am glad though that at least they are being let go..

I hope someone gives that illegal drug dealing mexican the justice he so deserves..

i wonder how many more truck loads he will bring over
once obama opens the border for all the worlds poor to come in and screw the USA???

At least president bush did something to correct this injust sentance..
If i was president i would have SHELLED with 155 howitzers
the town were the drug dealing scum bags are comming from..

jcila on January 19, 2009 at 2:34 PM

OK, let the slamming begin.

pullingmyhairout on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Having lived in Ca for so many years, I share the sentiment…drug and illegal trafficking should be a priority, and securing the borders “logically”, not excessively.
And yes, some of our very best citizens are “illegal”, and some of our worst are illegal.
What we need is a logical way to assimilate, properly, immigrants.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 2:23 PM

You appear to be saying it’s OK to violate our laws if you are hard-working and looking for a better life. At least you don’t want them to be arrested or even turned back. What part of illegal don’t you understand. You would think there’s no legal process for immigration and these people have no choice but to swarm across illegally. They do have a choice and we have a responsibility to protect our borders, enforce the laws and yes, respect the process.
Either we secure our borders with every lawful means necessary or we don’t. I vote “we do”.

SKYFOX on January 19, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Any chance that the question to these two people might be answered here?

And SHOULD be shot… DEAD… then throw them back over the boder so others can see what happens if you cross into America and steal jobs, ID’s, jobs and healthcare from OUR families.
Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM
.
just out of curiosity, do you consider these invaiders and ileagles… human beings?
wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 1:56 PM

Just heard on the radio that this is Buah’s last act if pardon & commutation for his Presidency. So he is going to let Scooter Libby rot in jail! I’m sorry but Pres. Bush’s Compassionate Conservative….
Sultry Beauty on January 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM
.
Well now.
Okay ….. so …. Sultry Beauty, which jail is Scooter Libby being kept right now? By the horrible person, “Buah”.
I bet you don’t know the answer to that question, am I right?
wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Because I really want to know, Mark, Sultry.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:36 PM

I knew before opening this thread that half of you would find something to whine about. Sometimes I think I’m on FreeRepublicLite.

capitalist piglet on January 19, 2009 at 2:36 PM

“Awesome! Now watch Texas go blue by 2012. Communities don’t forget these kinds of things and when the outgoing GOP President commutes these guys, the next Dem organizer who rides into south texas to register Mexican Americans will not be able to give away registration forms fast enough.”

Did you miss this:

“You can thank the Texas congressional delegation for this, probably. All 34 members signed a letter to Bush last week requesting the commutation.”

artist on January 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM

“I know something for a sure thing,” Hitchens continued. “The demand for torture and other methods I would describe as illegal, the demand to go outside the Geneva conventions — all this came from below. What everyone wants to say is this came from a small clique around the vice-president. It’s not educational. It doesn’t enlighten anyone to behave as if that were true. This is our society wanting and demanding harsh measures.” Therefore, he went on, the demand for prosecution or other measures against Bush administration officials would likewise have to come from below, via the grassroots. “Otherwise it’s just vengeful, I suppose, and partisan.”

Christopher Hitchens

Hitch is right on this. I disagreed with these methods, but they did come from demand from below. And the idea of prosecuting the Bush Administrtion for it is wrong becuase if it did come from below, a change in attitude would be really over the economy tanking not the use of these techniques.

Mr. Joe on January 19, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Congrats Minutemen/KKK folks, you got what you wanted, but it’s a pyrrhic victory.

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Minutemen/KKK folks are all that’s left in the GOP…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:41 PM

How did this thread turn from “whether or not commutation should have been given” to “should we murder people or not” thread?

Weight of Glory on January 19, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Minutemen/KKK folks are all that’s left in the GOP…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:41 PM

Considering that the GOP President and the GOP 2008 Presidential Candidate both supported amnesty, how exactly do you explain your twisted little logic?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:44 PM

So he is going to let Scooter Libby rot in jail!

Once again, the article specifically states that Libby did not request a full pardon.

Tanya on January 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Scooter Libby was released quite awhile ago, when Bush commuted his sentence shortly after he was convicted. He did not pardon him. But commuted the sentence which means he is free but his conviction remains on the books.

Dasher on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

If Libby didn’t ask for a pardon, I expect Bush wasn’t going to give him one, even though others may have asked on Libby’s behalf. Even Richard Armitage, the original leaker, publicly suggested one (guilty conscience, Armitage?)

Libby lost his law license after the conviction. I suppose he can get work elsewhere, think tank or something like that.

If this is the last one, then the crooked ex-governor Ryan of Illinois is out of luck unless Obama grants him one. And Obama is certainly trying to distance himself from crooked Illinois pols right now.

Wethal on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

“You can thank the Texas congressional delegation for this, probably. All 34 members signed a letter to Bush last week requesting the commutation.”

artist on January 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM

Thats what primary challenges are for, I still say this is a net gain for the Democrats among the latino population. That said I think that the GOP is screwed in Texas either way, if latino vote stays stead and Dems can just increase registration that state goes blue in 4 years. If Virginia and N.C. can….

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

This news, and the news about Bill Ayers being denied entry into Canada, are making this last day of freedom a great one.

joe_doufu on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:44 PM

And yet they couldn’t actually DO anything about it. And why not? Their party sabotaged them. In the minds of latinos the GOP owns the failures on immigration reform. Now I don’t happen to think that was a number one issue this election cycle, but if the economy does recover it will be the latino version of the life issue and there are more and more legal latino citizens in critical states every year.

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Scooter Libby was released quite awhile ago,
Dasher on January 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM

I really wanted her to admit this, but thanks. At least the ratio of sane to insane comments is getting slightly better as these people seem to be scurrying back into the woodwork.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Mr. Sutton has stood by the convictions but questioned the sentences.

“The only legitimate question, I think a legitimate question, is: ‘Is the punishment too harsh?’ I have always said the punishment in this case was harsh,” Mr. Sutton said on Nov. 14.

Then why the F*CK did you charge them under a statute that carried such a harsh sentence in the first place (and shouldn’t have even applied) you worthless f*cking coward?

thirteen28 on January 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

As usual, Bush goes half way. In this case it is a whole lot better than nothing. I don’t know what he owes Sutton but it must be a lot.

duff65 on January 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Correct my memory, but I don’t think Scooter Libby went to jail. He had that part of the sentence commuted, pardoned or whatever. He did have to pay the fine. However, his reputation was ruined and I don’t know if is he gainfully employed. I don’t know where he goes to get his good name back. That whole thing was a travesty of Fitzgerald gone amuck!

BetseyRoss on January 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Considering that the GOP President and the GOP 2008 Presidential Candidate both supported amnesty, how exactly do you explain your twisted little logic?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Isn’t that why the debate got so ugly in 2006? The base was against “amnesty” and alienated all the Hispanics, who left the party in disgust, throwing 4 states to Obama: Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Florida.

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM

However, his reputation was ruined

not for me. I have the utmost respect for him. And not by other people who know the truth that it was Colin Powell’s aide what’s his name who was responsible for outing Plame.

Scooter Libby is still hated by the same folks who hated him, and still honored by the same folks who know the truth and don’t hold the political witch hunt against him.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:51 PM

The amount of ignorance about this case is amazing.

I will say it again: if you believe that either of these two are guilty of a crime or deserved to go to jail you are ignorant of the truth & events.

The shooting happened, and per regulations they notified their superiors ON THE SCENE. There was no cover up, they simply did not fill out tons of paper work as their supervisors were already notified.

The drug dealer has Mexican family connections that called the State department and raised hell. The prosecutor went after them and kept adding charges trying to get them to take a plea deal. When they did not it went to trial. During the trial the history of the drug dealer, the fact we had given him immunity, and other factors were kept from the jury.

The charge of discharging a weapon during a crime was used incorrectly, and it carries a MANDATORY 10 year jail time extension. It was never meant to be used on law officers doing their job. It should not have been allowed in this case either.

This was a railroad job on two law enforcement agents to skipped out on paperwork. The “victim”, who has since gone on to commit more border and drug crimes, was able to use family connections to make it happen.

It is a total disgrace for our country. I hope that with this the two agents are able to appeal the convictions and be found not guilty. Without Bush and family kissing @$$ to some Mexicans around they will be found so.

Do more research and stop just accepting the crap that the MSM put out on this story.

Voidseeker on January 19, 2009 at 2:51 PM

I knew it! I knew he`d do something, he couldn`t just let them sit in jail for 10 yrs.

ThePrez on January 19, 2009 at 2:53 PM

The base was against “amnesty” and alienated all the Hispanics…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM

…who were here illegally. Hispanic Americans should have been just as outraged that, after they or their ancestors went through whatever process to be citizens here, that a bunch of illegal aliens were getting free citizenship. People who were criminals and invaders of this nation were getting free citizenship.

Don’t try the Juan Hernandez “Have a heart” crap here.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Watch Obama come along and give these guys a full pardon – and then pardon Ryan. We wouldn’t know whether to **** or **** then. Wouldn’t surprise me if he did it just to give Bush a last kick in the ****.

ManUFan on January 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Does anyone else find it ironic that these people who want the summary execution & murder of these invaiders and ileagles… … are doing so because they want our laws enforced in regard with our borders?

I mean, how about just trying to be logically consistent with this one.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Hmmm, yes, it appears there is some support for the “I’ll decide which laws should be enforced” judicial process.

a capella on January 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Then why the F*CK did you charge them under a statute that carried such a harsh sentence in the first place (and shouldn’t have even applied) you worthless f*cking coward?
thirteen28 on January 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

They were charged with misconduct in the shooting and wounding of a suspect and their following cover-up of their use of lethal force with the intent to murder. What statute was he supposed to charge them under, a misdemeanor?

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:56 PM

You appear to be saying it’s OK to violate our laws if you are hard-working and looking for a better life. At least you don’t want them to be arrested or even turned back. What part of illegal don’t you understand. You would think there’s no legal process for immigration and these people have no choice but to swarm across illegally. They do have a choice and we have a responsibility to protect our borders, enforce the laws and yes, respect the process.
Either we secure our borders with every lawful means necessary or we don’t. I vote “we do”.

SKYFOX on January 19, 2009 at 2:36 PM

I didn’t say it was ok, but I do understand why they come here. I don’t think you live near the border because it sound like to me that you aren’t very sympathetic and that you have a deep lack of knowledge as to what actually happens in and around border towns. What exactly do you propose we do with all the people who are here illegally? The standard response send them back is pretty simplistic, don’t you think?

pullingmyhairout on January 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM

…who were here illegally. Hispanic Americans should have been just as outraged that, after they or their ancestors went through whatever process to be citizens here, that a bunch of illegal aliens were getting free citizenship. People who were criminals and invaders of this nation were getting free citizenship.

Don’t try the Juan Hernandez “Have a heart” crap here.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:53 PM

uhhh, no. you aren’t gonna win many voters by threatening to deport their grandmothers. the base’s hard-ass (and let’s face it, underlying racist) immigration stance has lost your party the Hispanic vote for good…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

please, tell me you’ve never been on jury duty

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:28 PM

So, you are saying that Jefferson will receive a more harsh sentence then if he told the truth? Even if he gets the same sentence, he is being paid now for lying…Blago, same thing, what politician has been punished more severely for telling a lie, then if he would have told the truth.
I wasn’t talking about you, or me, I was talking about the “system”.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Heck yes!

Thank you Mr. President.

Ryan Gandy on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

the base’s hard-ass (and let’s face it, underlying racist) immigration stance…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Explain how it’s racist when it’s not against a single race. Nobody is talking about American citizens who are of Mexican heritage, just about the Mexican citizens who illegally invaded this country. Can you differentiate the two, or is that beyond you? Or, worse, do you dislike the idea of borders and citizenships altogether?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Awesome!
But I think they deserve extra compensation.

TheSitRep on January 19, 2009 at 3:03 PM

So, you are saying that Jefferson will receive a more harsh sentence then if he told the truth?
right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

No. I’m just worried that someone with your complete lack of understanding of law ever participate in our legal system.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Libby never did time. His sentence was commuted just before he was to report to the Bureau of Prisons.

Wethal on January 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Bottom line: 1 dirtbag dead; 2 dirtbag killers going home to their families.

Welcome home.

davidk on January 19, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Just heard on the radio that this is Buah’s last act if pardon & commutation for his Presidency. So he is going to let Scooter Libby rot in jail! I’m sorry but Pres. Bush’s Compassionate Conservative was only compassionate to irrational Code Pink types and fatal to actual Conservatives. I will never go along with this ideology again! I agree with Rush. I don’t want to give Obama a break, I don’t want his policies to work. I don’t want bi-partisan ideaology where we give up everything and get nothing in return. I don’t accept Republicans as rep’ing my Party that tell me I’m not a good American if I don’t reach across the aisle and agree to things that are fundamentally against my beliefs, principals, and morals while never, ever demanding, let alone asking the other side to do the same. This is what we end up with and it is holistically unacceptable.

Sultry Beauty on January 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM

/rant

Is Scooter Libby in jail, Sultry Beauty?

capitalist piglet on January 19, 2009 at 3:07 PM

You appear to be saying it’s OK to violate our laws…
Either we secure our borders with every lawful means necessary or we don’t. I vote “we do”.

SKYFOX on January 19, 2009 at 2:36 PM

I have no idea where how you read into what you read…except for your pure paranoia.
Of course it is not okay to break our laws…notice I said to enforce our borders?

drug and illegal trafficking should be a priority, and securing the borders “logically”, not excessively.
And yes, some of our very best citizens are “illegal”, and some of our worst are illegal.
What we need is a logical way to assimilate, properly, immigrants.

Are you saying we should not assimilate any immigrants? I say properly, I think you would want the same, to do it properly…which of course means within the law.
But a much more logical way then lining our borders with machine guns and a twenty foot wall…we can implement a system that makes sense, Reagan did it, until it was dismantled by liberals, you are saying Reagan thought it okay for people to violate our laws?
Please, read the words, and respond to the words…or show me where I said it was okay for people to violate our laws.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Explain how it’s racist when it’s not against a single race. Nobody is talking about American citizens who are of Mexican heritage, just about the Mexican citizens who illegally invaded this country. Can you differentiate the two, or is that beyond you? Or, worse, do you dislike the idea of borders and citizenships altogether?

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM

what a crock! is there a call for a fence on the canadian border? are there minutemen up there? and no i am for the border but liked the plan for a fine/guest worker program. it’s far more humane and realistic. but hey, you guys are conservatives, your failure to evolve your thinking when it comes to immigration, gays, etc, are what is costing you the support of the next generation, so keep it up!

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM

BetseyRoss on January 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM

You’re correct. Bush commuted Libby’s sentence when he was denied bail awaiting appeal last summer. He didn’t go to jail. Yes, clearing his name is what I do believe his appeal is about and a pardon would not do that.
Mary Matalin heads up his defense fund.

Texas Gal on January 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM

No. I’m just worried that someone with your complete lack of understanding of law ever participate in our legal system.

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Yet you agree with me that politicians that lie, receive no more harsher sentence the if they told the truth…seems like your understanding is the same as mine.
I am sure your “understanding” of the law is supreme…care to tell us where your law degree is from?

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Should have gone a step further and pardoned them. Then give them a Pres. Medal Of Valor.
That would send a message to our invaders from the South.

Nevertheless, thank you President Bush.

FireBlogger on January 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM

Sultry Beauty on January 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Libby never went to jail. He had time between his sentencing and his report date to prison and the commutation came just in time.

Wethal on January 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Noneya is also willfully blind to the calls for illegal Russian, Irish, Albanian, Greek, Polish, French, English, and German aliens to be deported as well.

cadetwithchips2 on January 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM

what a crock! is there a call for a fence on the canadian border? are there minutemen up there? and no i am for the border but liked the plan for a fine/guest worker program. it’s far more humane and realistic. but hey, you guys are conservatives, your failure to evolve your thinking when it comes to immigration, gays, etc, are what is costing you the support of the next generation, so keep it up!

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Are there an estimated 12 million Canadian illegal aliens living illegally in the US, and are constantly crossing the border illegally? Is Canada a country where the upper and lower classes are so distantly spread apart that Canadians are flowing in order to make money to send back to Canada?

Every time someone makes that fallacious comparison it gets even more ludicrous, and it’s inherently and disgustingly intellectually dishonest to claim the difference is race, rather than the fact that we have an illegal alien problem with one border and not with the other.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:12 PM

davidk on January 19, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Who was killed?

BallisticBob on January 19, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Congrats Minutemen/KKK folks, you got what you wanted, but it’s a pyrrhic victory.

DeathToMediaHacks on January 19, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Minutemen/KKK folks are all that’s left in the GOP…

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 2:41 PM

Who let these lunatics in? And what the hell does not wanting to allow two HISPANIC border patrol agents who did their jobs serve a cruel and unusual punishment have to do with being a Klansman or member of the Minutemen?

They were charged with misconduct in the shooting and wounding of a suspect and their following cover-up of their use of lethal force with the intent to murder. What statute was he supposed to charge them under, a misdemeanor?

wise_man on January 19, 2009 at 2:56 PM

I don’t want to live in a world where border patrol agents that shoot an armed (and don’t even tell me that the guy wasn’t armed, because even his own mother said her son is always armed when he goes drug running) drug smuggler in the ass get charged with assault with a deadly weapon. The cover up was the crime. I don’t know what specific statute that would fall under, but it sure as hell shouldn’t be assault with a deadly weapon and some civil rights B.S. Bad call by the US Attorney on that one.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Exactly. It’s the assholes that come here illegally that keep the system from allowing the law abiding potential immigrants to come over.

malan89 on January 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM

but hey, you guys are conservatives, your failure to evolve your thinking when it comes to immigration, gays, etc, are what is costing you the support of the next generation, so keep it up!

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM

By the way, what the hell is with the bolded bit? I’m not sure if you’re referring to gay marriage, but as it happens, I don’t hold the “conservative” view on it. Stay on topic, and leave your blanket generalizations at the door, stumpy.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Praise God!

ExTex on January 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Bottom line: 1 dirtbag dead; 2 dirtbag killers going home to their families.

Welcome home.

davidk on January 19, 2009 at 3:06 PM

They shot him in the ass, he isn’t dead. You sound like the uninformed dirtbag on this one.

malan89 on January 19, 2009 at 3:15 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Not stumpy, stumpette. And that is the topic she is fiercest about, remember?

kingsjester on January 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Every time someone makes that fallacious comparison it gets even more ludicrous, and it’s inherently and disgustingly intellectually dishonest to claim the difference is race, rather than the fact that we have an illegal alien problem with one border and not with the other.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:12 PM

yeah right, i’m sure the fact their skin is brown has NOTHING to do with it. all i can say is thank god your racist party is outta power….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM

I got a lot of that during campaign season. “You don’t support Obama, you must be against gay rights.” Ummm, didn’t McCain and Obama hold pretty much the exact same view on gay marriage? And didn’t Biden and Palin both admit to the fact that they had “no differences” on that during the VP debate. Amazing what comes out of people’s ignorant mouths.

yeah right, i’m sure the fact their skin is brown has NOTHING to do with it. all i can say is thank god your racist party is outta power….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Wow. Wasn’t it, the ummm, uhh, DEMOCRATS who fought so hard for Jim Crow Laws back in the day? And isn’t one of your Senators a former Klansman? Yeah, we’re the racist party.

malan89 on January 19, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Texas Gal on January 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Thanks for that bit of information. I am so glad that Mary Matalin is on the job. I really like her and knew that she worked in Cheney’s office for a while. She was always talking about Scooter Libby and what a good man he is. I just haven’t heard or seen her for a while.

BetseyRoss on January 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Meanwhile, the party that was and is home to the KKK rules supreme, the party that did everything to block integration is in power, the party that controls every inner school district, the party that has implemented the “great society” and destroyed the values of the black family…is now in power…they are in power to hand out more welfare to keep their people on the plantation…how comforting.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Too Little Too Late from the RINO Bush the younger

bill30097 on January 19, 2009 at 3:27 PM

yeah right, i’m sure the fact their skin is brown has NOTHING to do with it. all i can say is thank god your racist party is outta power….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM

So your argument is “Well, I don’t like logic, you’re all just a bunch of racists!”

All I can say is that you’re probably projecting like crazy, and while you’re doing that, go jump in front of a truck.

MadisonConservative on January 19, 2009 at 3:30 PM

Wow. Wasn’t it, the ummm, uhh, DEMOCRATS who fought so hard for Jim Crow Laws back in the day? And isn’t one of your Senators a former Klansman? Yeah, we’re the racist party.

malan89 on January 19, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Facts to a liberal are of no use…

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Fantastic for Monica, Patty and their children. They get their Dad’s home.
I am happy that Bush found it in his heart to commute the sentences, but that doesn’t go far enough IMHO.
These sorry excuse for politicians need to sit on the border, next to these U.S. Border Patrol Agents and see what they see, fight what they fight each and every day. And then, the politicians need to be called Nazis, criminals, racists for doing the jobs of these agents.
Only then will they know what it is like to be the last line of defense against the trash that spills over from this poor excuse for a country, Mexico.
Ramos and Compean need to be given medals, full pardons with their jobs back, back pay, along with pay for pain and suffering.

And Johnny Sutton, BURN IN HELL!

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Guilty the second they cross the border, our current method is not working, but mine would. How long or how many would it take to stop ALL “border violators”.

Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Unfortunately for you and like minded people, the ‘current method’ consists of several laws already in place which Compean and Ramos violated. Not only procedures but actual felonies. We are a nation of laws (republic) and above all that is what matters. Shouldn’t your beef be aimed more at the laws you don’t particularly agree with as opposed to those who are to uphold said laws?

For the record, I am happy their sentences were commuted. I don’t necessarily believe the POTUS should be in the business of granting full pardons to felons even if those particular felonies were committed during a particular cause we all agree with (keeping our borders safe from other felons). Either way, his perrogative.

Another thing. You wouldn’t happen to believe that President Clinton was impeached because of his sexual indiscretions, would you? I know it seems off topic but would like to know how consistent we all are with regard to law.

anuts on January 19, 2009 at 3:33 PM

The shooting happened, and per regulations they notified their superiors ON THE SCENE. There was no cover up, they simply did not fill out tons of paper work as their supervisors were already notified.
Voidseeker on January 19, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Funny how the defenders of these two idiots gloss over the fact that they lied to investigators and screwed with the crime scene by throwing their casings into the river as a “paperwork” error. The thing is, once they lied to investigators about their actions that day..EVERYTHING these two said about the events of that day was questionable…the chase, the purported “weapon” the doper had…everything. That’s the thing about integrity..once you lose some of it you lose all of it.

The fact that the doper is a piece of excrement incarnate does not mean that we should tolerate lying and cover-ups from any law enforcement officer..even from those who are defending our country from illegal aliens and drugs.

CapitalistPig on January 19, 2009 at 3:33 PM

Hey Noneya, do you live in a gated community? you seem to forget politics the pendulum usually swings both ways and seldom stays static. Nearly half the nation voted against BO and his support could go fleeting as with others in the past. I am old enough to remember that they said the GOP was finished in the election of 64. Noneya are you aware of the fact that most nations enforce their borders including the beloved Mexico? Another thing is that if you are right that the USA will be confronted with one political party and everything will descend from it with no loyal opposition. Is this your wish? By the way What was Kerry’s plan for Iraq back in 04? Care to answer some of these questions.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 3:33 PM

I’m not sure which is funnier; those who think bush just pardoned the border patrol guards, or those who think scooter libby is rotting in prison.

Either way, just another example that you people wont let the facts get in the way of your Angry White Indignation.

benny shakar on January 19, 2009 at 3:38 PM

There are two trolls…don’t feed the trolls.

right2bright on January 19, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Noneya,

There are way too many posts I would like to address so quoting them would be much too cluttered. A little advice, if you are obsessed with identity politics (and it certainly seems you are) it would better your understanding of oppositional arguments if you refrained from making the mistake that others are obsessed as well. Your KKK, racist, etc. invocations show you are completely missing the point of any and all arguments. It also shows the lens in which you feel necessary to look at what’s in front of you. Some would call that in and of itself racist. But I digress…

anuts on January 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

You presumed wrongly Benny I am of the Native American stock which specifically am a member of the Yakama Tribe. Your insinuation that we are all white is very missguided. Yes, we are very patriotic and some of us are conservative and are not in favor or your gay and abortion rights. Furthermore we know alot about immigration issues so get off your or get out of your gated community and live within the tagged up, and drugged up communities you so admire.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM

what a crock! is there a call for a fence on the canadian border? are there minutemen up there? and no i am for the border but liked the plan for a fine/guest worker program. it’s far more humane and realistic. but hey, you guys are conservatives, your failure to evolve your thinking when it comes to immigration, gays, etc, are what is costing you the support of the next generation, so keep it up!

Noneya

Is 10% of Canada living in the US illegally? Are Canadians sending $45B per year back to Canada? Did you know that in 2006:

* twelve Americans were murdered every day by illegal aliens
* Thirteen Americans were killed every day by drunk illegal alien drivers
* Eight American children were victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day
* There are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.

When Canada starts acting like that I’ll be the first in line to defend our northern border. Until then, face reality and don’t let your passion blind you from the truth.

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Don’t bother cannon…..common sense and facts do not compute.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

There are two trolls…don’t feed the trolls.

right2bright

But at least we let them speak their opinions. If you try to even suggest an alternative viewpoint over that the KOS you get banned from commenting. It’s happened to me… twice.

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Sorry Hornet… I agree. The Vicadin has me weak today and I felt compelled to reason with fools. :-)

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Sorry Hornet… I agree. The Vicadin has me weak today and I felt compelled to reason with fools. :-)

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I understand, I wish I had Vicadin for the next three days, heck, for the next four years.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Hey MadisonConservative , nobody says gun down all illegal… but perhaps its not a bad idea. For you seem to want to let all Mexican comes over , kill , murder and rape Americans who are a lot more innocent then the illegals. YOU and Liberals have a lot in common, YOU always give the Illegal Aliens the benefit of the doubt that they are “innocent” or “good” . Well sorry to tell you, many are not good, many come here for the sole purpose of being criminals. Gangs/ Drugs/ Also know who are the biggest contributors to IDENTITY THEFT? you got it ILLEGAL ALIENS.

You have the facts in this case all wrong ,
1- the Drug dealer that got shot has been arrested before for dealing drugs and having a weapon.
2- he reached for somthing in his pocket, which the non-drugdealer/criminal/ILLEGAL Alien border agents thought was a gun. and took appropriate action
3- YOU do not know the guy was unarmed, he said he was, and we let an ILLEGAL alien come testify against our border agents – with the help of the Mexican govt – lie and get the honest men convicted.

Lastly – i know you want to support the whole country of Mexico and give them all free healthcare/ welfare/ free education , hell give them free beer too! But it is not OUR duty to take care of another country, PERHAPS if we are not willing to CLOSE the border, we should not bother enforcing it, just annex Mexico so the democrats can have another minority voting block they can promise the moon and get 95% votes from.

On side note –
I am for the Great wall of Mexico – make the great wall of china look like legos. keep them out keep us save.
- I am not really for shooting them if they are sneaking accross, but we do need a way to deter them from coming. since we are not building the wall, and deporting them doenst work cause they just come back, and it is very dangerous to try to arrest them …. perhaps we have camps, set up with no AC and a few guards…. also make the supplying of food and water and any other basic needs the job soley of the Mexican Gov. If they dont want to put up the cash to give these people food and water… well then its on their hands when the people starve. – also all aid to Mexico should be stopped, and we should charge them 1 barrel of oil per month per illegal Mexican. – regardless – the status quo is not working, well not for America, its working for the democrats, and the Mexicans – and when politicians are more worried about themselves and “interest groups” than whats best for the county, then we are really screwed.

and having open borders is not what is BEST for our country, its whats best for the Mexicans, but not us

- also I’m not calling you a liberal, but i am saying that you enjoy playing “devils advocate” and sometimes falls into stance of a liberal -

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM

benny tends to generalize quite a bit and isn’t particularly brave. Since your ancestry and views poke a hole in his theory, he’ll probably go to another thread.

a capella on January 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

BUNNY SHAKER!

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

+100

But, Madison is a cool cat.

HornetSting on January 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

cannonball on January 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM

the rantings of some wingnut congressman are your “source”? you gotta be freaking kidding me….

Noneya on January 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Hey MadisonConservative , nobody says gun down all illegal… but perhaps its not a bad idea. Donut on January 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
How am I not reading this right?

And SHOULD be shot… DEAD… then throw them back over the boder so others can see what happens if you cross into America and steal jobs, ID’s, jobs and healthcare from OUR families.

Mark Garnett on January 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM

a capella on January 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Noneya, I am still waiting for your answers and have to leave for a while. Please put in what was Kerry’s plan for Iraq in 04 in your answers. Rememember alot of us do not want to live under your Shira law.

garydt on January 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

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