Poll: Best conservative movies in the past 25 years
posted at 6:40 pm on January 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
We have a great thread running on this topic, but no real resolution on ranking best movies with conservative themes from the last 25 years. Sounds like a great application for a poll, so here it is. I took my original suggestions and added those from the comments that had at least one or two statements of support. To make it as fair as possible, I’ve arranged them in alphabetical order — so be sure to read all the way through when you cast your votes.
You can select as many or as few as you like. I’ll announce the top 10 movies, as voted on by Hot Air readers, on tomorrow’s Ed Morrissey Show, complete (I hope) with video clips. Feel free to continue the debate in both threads, and tune in tomorrow for the results!










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What about ‘The Ten Commandments’ and ‘Patton’? Oh, yeah, and ‘Spaceballs’?
savvydude on January 15, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Voted for The Pursuit of Happyness — not because it was my favorite flick listed, but because I can’t think of a better film that captures the quintessentially conservative faith in the American dream.
Great topic for discussion.
John from OPFOR on January 15, 2009 at 6:46 PM
The last 25 years. And … Spaceballs??
Ed Morrissey on January 15, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Since you didn’t put “French Twist” on the poll, I’m not voting.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113149/
Bishop on January 15, 2009 at 6:49 PM
I forgot one………..
…….. Never Cry Wolf (1983)
A liberal bureaucrat goes to Alaska to study wolves…..
……………. then has to face the reality of it, epic.
Seven Percent Solution on January 15, 2009 at 6:49 PM
HBO’s Series “Band of Brothers” the story of Easy company during WWII. EXCELLENT.
portlandon on January 15, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I just saw Serenity the other night, and it was awesome. So many great movies on that list… and several I think I need to see.
Anna on January 15, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Any movie with Clint Eastwood, or Chuck Norris…
right2bright on January 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM
I’d still suggest Trainspotting, but given that Bob Dole publicly villified the movie on its release, claiming it glorified drug use(which it did precisely the opposite), and then admitted shortly afterwards that he never actually watched it…I guess that might be a sore spot.
MadisonConservative on January 15, 2009 at 6:54 PM
I had to vote for ‘Man on Fire’ since that was probably the best movie I’ve rented that I’d never heard of…but I think ‘The Filth and the Fury: The Story of the Sex Pistols’ should be conservative 101 now…it’s time to beat these filthy liberals at their own game…it REALLY gets to them to see their messiah questioned..especially since our figurehead is not what he seems!
DCJeff on January 15, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Death Wish with Charles Bronson.
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Hunt for Red October…hands down.
but seriously, Juno? conservative? i know it has some conservative themes, but…i wouldn’t call it conservative.
bloghooligan on January 15, 2009 at 7:00 PM
American Carol didn’t make the list?
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM
That’s part of the problem – it’s hard to define what’s meant by “conservative movies”.
I think the fact that Juno didn’t glorify teen pregnancy/abortion/teen parenting is such a breath of fresh air that makes it one of the most conservative-leaning movies to tackle the subject.
JadeNYU on January 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
I love Hunt for Red October, the book. Alec Baldwin and the rampent butchering of Russian just killed the movie for me. I’d still consider it conservative, though.
Anna on January 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
gattaca or thank you for smoking, and I went with….
rob verdi on January 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Swordfish with John Travolta, Hugh Jackman, and Hally Berry.
and over 25 years old I would have to say El Cid with Charlton Heston. Then again anything with Charlton Heston in it was pretty awesome.
Dreadnought223 on January 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Sorry — I thought it was. I added it, should take 10 minutes or so for poll to update.
Ed Morrissey on January 15, 2009 at 7:06 PM
What about The Kite Runner? I went to see if with trepidation but was impressed with its unflinching portrayal of the Taliban.
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 7:08 PM
So, theoretically we could vote for every film on the list?
It's Vintage, Duh on January 15, 2009 at 7:09 PM
LA Confidential and Master and Commander, two of my favorite films of the last 15 years period.
And believe it or not, I’m not all that huge a Russell Crowe fan. I just love those films (and the novels they’re based on).
Missy on January 15, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Yeah, seemed like an odd one to be left out…
That, and Clancy’s Sum of All Fears I liked…or really any of the Clancy flicks. But since the best, Red October, is there (Teh Fred!) it works.
Really interested to see the top picks tomorrow.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM
OK, I’m kind of bummed that Unforgiven isn’t on that list.
C’mon, the climax of that film is what I wish American foreign policy could still be: Clint walks into the UN with his shotgun still smoking and proclaims, “Better not go…[insert just about anything here]…Or I’ll come back and kill every one of you sons-o-bitches.”
Cowboy diplomacy? Hell yeah.
saint kansas on January 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM
heh…Starship Troopers was a great one too!
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:18 PM
My vote is for, An American Carol, as it did such a sweet job of showing the ignorance of your typical lib. :oP
DannoJyd on January 15, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Hey, people who didn’t voted for Red Dawn?
Get out.
madne0 on January 15, 2009 at 7:22 PM
How could you pick Rudy over Rocky. Rudy was a self absorbed jerk, so I am told…
RedSoxNation on January 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM
heh
Ugh, I can’t believe they’re remaking that movie… sacrilege!
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:24 PM
Twenty … five … years ….
Ed Morrissey on January 15, 2009 at 7:24 PM
United 93.
Spirit of 1776 on January 15, 2009 at 7:25 PM
The book is a million times better than the movie.
Dreadnought223 on January 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM
Ditto.
I for one try to be optimistic. The remake might be decent, maybe better. Either way Communists will die. Who can argue against that?
starkc on January 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Where are the Terminator movies?
“No fate but what we make” and the implication that we are responsible for our own lives and actions is a very conservative theme. Combine that with the appreciation for the easy availability of firearms, and you have a real winner.
I question the inclusion of Iron Man, however. The hippie-sentiments expressed in the movie (“I’m going to start building power plants, not bombs!”) were the one thing that really bugged me. Tony Stark builds guns, and he’s proud of it.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Starship Troopers is quite possibly the greatest movie ever made, and even though it totally departed from the book, still very conservative. Nice call.
unrepentant-smoker.blogspot.com on January 15, 2009 at 7:30 PM
The Punisher. Not the new one. The one with Thomas Jane and John Travolta. Like an old John Wayne movie. Clear distinction between good and evil and good wins.
genso on January 15, 2009 at 7:31 PM
I never read the book Starship Troopers, but yeah… books usually are much better than the movie versions. Jurrasic Park was a total disappointment story-wise. DaVinci Code too.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM
We need a thread concerning books and historical events that should be made into conservative movies.
I will start by nominating:
The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin’s Russia
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM
Why isn’t everyone voting for ‘Miracle’?
1980 Winter olympics – USA hockey stomps the CCCP in the greatest upset in sports history. Moving story & great acting from Mr.Russel.
Come on people!
Ital79 on January 15, 2009 at 7:33 PM
I find that if I stop linking the two in my mind, I like the movie a whole lot more. The book was awesome.
Anna on January 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM
How about 3:10 to Yuma and Rescue Dawn?
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM
Independence Day should be on the list.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on January 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Ditto.
That’s a book that would give any liberal nightmares.
trigon on January 15, 2009 at 7:38 PM
If they would have made the movie more like the book – it would have been great, but people running around in armor shooting machine guns? come on. They were supposed to be the Mobile Infantry because of the awesome suits able to jump miles at a time and shoot tactical nukes, more firepower than a modern tank. I watched the movie and said “Did they even read the book?”
Corsair on January 15, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Have you seen the 1957 version with Glenn Ford and Van Heflin? It’s better than the remake, in my opinion.
Mark1971 on January 15, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Well, if we are going to really do that start with finishing Atlas Shrugged….. oh wait that is going to be real life!
darcee on January 15, 2009 at 7:41 PM
And don’t even go see the Jolie movie. Wait for the documentary.
genso on January 15, 2009 at 7:45 PM
The book Starship Troopers barely has a story :P It’s really a very long screed about politics and the military. I mean, it’s got some good stuff, but it’s pretty difficult to finish and then say, “Oh the point of that story was …” Because it seems pretty random.
But the movie was one of the worst of all time.
I don’t think I’ll ever hate a movie as much as I hate Starship Troopers.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Where’s Band of Brothers?
Yeah-it was on HBO.
So what.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Mark1971 on January 15, 2009 at 7:39 PM
True, but Ed is limiting the time frame to 25 years.
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Your darn rules stopped me from posting “Cabaret.”
No seriously, hear me out!! “Cabaret” is set during the 1930′s in Berlin where a glorious new movement (and leader) is emerging and everyone just wants to have a good time. It’s decadent and wild and people do whatever (and whomever) they want. Meanwhile, the glorious new movement and leader are setting up to dominate the entire country by indoctrinating the youth and the susceptible. The movie (and musical) ends with the Nazis being the majority while Sally Bowles tries desparately to pretend that life is a cabaret and a big party, ignoring the dark and malevolent forces now driving Germany and in the larger context, the world.
Yeah, it’s pretty prescient at this point….
mjk on January 15, 2009 at 7:52 PM
That’s a ton to choose from. What is conservative about Apollo 13? I love the movie, but ideologically I don’t get where the conservative angle is. Triumph of the human spirit, maybe?
I know its limited to 25 years, but Dirty Harry is my all-time favorite and would earn my vote for one of the best conservative ones.
changer1701 on January 15, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Dude, I don’t see Invasion USA on that list. What about Big Trouble in Little China? A chinese immigrant entrepeneur and a truck driver take on a Chinese Sorcerer and 3 Demi Gods..how much more American can you get than that?
I mean..Spider Man got on there? But no Big Trouble? This list sucks.
austinnelly on January 15, 2009 at 7:53 PM
It celebrates that pioneer spirit. When men were real men! And women were real women! And small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri!
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Do yourself a favor. Read the book, the movie bears no resemblance to Heinlein’s vision. Once you’ve read the book go back and watch the movie again, your opinion of it may be different.
Oldnuke on January 15, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Try watching Battlefield Earth.
Corsair on January 15, 2009 at 7:55 PM
I voted for Master and Commander.
Let’s here it for alpha males.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Yeah, I just wanted to recommend it if you hadn’t seen it.
Mark1971 on January 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM
I did watch it. Battlefield Earth sucked, and sucked hard. But Starship Troopers was both insulting to my intelligence and aggressively idiotic.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 7:58 PM
omg…That movie was absolutely horrible.
Well, I really liked Starship Troopers movie, but given so many say the book is really so much better, I’ll be stopping at Barnes & Noble tomorrow and see if they have it.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Tombstone!
Disturb the Universe on January 15, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Since the movie was satirizing and mocking the military, and military service, I should let you know that the book glorifies military service as the most selfless act any man can make.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 8:03 PM
It’s actually quite short about 260 or so pages. If you didn’t grow up in the 50′s it might be a little difficult to get your head around. Heinlein wrote it (IIRC) as a protest against some political scientific group’s wailing about eliminating all nuclear weapons. Starting with ours of course.
We agree on that. The book, however, was in my opinion one of his best. Of course “Opinions vary”.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Oldnuke on January 15, 2009 at 8:04 PM
That works for me!
I really didn’t see the movie mocking the military…just the opposite. Yeah, I gotta read that book this weekend.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Ok, I’ll buy that. I second that Tombstone vote from someone else…very underrated.
changer1701 on January 15, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Full Metal Jacket
swash_plate on January 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM
Again, please remember that I built this poll based on comments in the original post. If no one suggested Invasion USA, for example, it won’t appear in this poll. However, suggestions here will at least prompt us to update our Netflix queues …
Ed Morrissey on January 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM
OK, I can stretch the imagination and see why most of the movies are there. I think some of the older classics are left out, but the timeline was last twenty five years.
Some I can’t imagine why they are on the list. Forrest Gump. Message to the people? The only person in the nation who does the right thing all the time is a mentally disabled guy from Alabama. Granted, this is different than the inbred racist homophobic hate mongering bible thumper stereotype that normally comes to mind in Hollywood when you mention Alabama. However is it a conservative movie?
Independence Day? Liberal version of appropriate war. Only when the world unites against big scary aliens who are here to destroy the environment can we be allowed to go to war.
I don’t understand why the Hunt for Red October is not doing better. Look, Conservative Investment Banker Jack Ryan who has joined the CIA because he was bored making money is the only one of the Political Experts who sees what is right before him. The Evils of the Soviet Union are so awesome that the most trusted people in the nation, the crew of a Soviet Nuclear Missile Submarine decide to defect, for freedom’s sake. Hello, those are every single principal of the Conservatives rolled into one movie, and book.
Air Force One. a former Military man, who won the Medal of Honor, is now the President. Apparently a Democrat since everyone knows that no real hero would ever join the Republicans. The Vice President, a woman, stands firm against the Cabinet and refuses to take the power of the Presidency from a man who is currently captured by enemy forces. Hello? I hope he’s a Democrat, because I’d hate to think that any Republican would rather not declare a period of temporary incapacity if the President is held HOSTAGE.
Executive Decision? Come on, a think tank genius is sent along on a rescue mission? HELLO people. Think Tank folks would rather conduct a study than actually participate in a raid. They might get their hair mussed.
So many of these movies are an affront to Conservative Principals, that I wonder if we have any principals left. I grant that the image out of Washington lately is NO we have no principals, we can’t afford them.
Red Dawn, simple peaceful town, attacked with no warning, no military value to the town, and thousands are slaughtered by the left wing forces of socialism. The freedom loving kids fight back, and survive by luck, back woods ingenuity, and help from their community. They fight the forces of Socialism, and later, when the war is over, the kids, these Wolverines are considered heros, and a park is commemorated to their memory.
So that this nation, shall not perish from the face of the earth. Classic Conservative ideas and principals. We fight against Socialism, because socialists are nothing more than dictators with a cute job title.
I am thinking. I should cancel my membership in the Republican Party, and join the Democrats. I think I’d have a better chance of moving them right, than I would of slowing the run left by the Republicans.
Snake307 on January 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM
The complete season of Firefly is on Hulu.com right now..
DaveC on January 15, 2009 at 8:10 PM
And Battlefield Earth isn’t conservative, but it is the most hilarious unintended comedy in the last 25 years. I never get tired of watching it for its awesome badness….
Ed Morrissey on January 15, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Yeah Verhoven admitted as much. That’s the reason for all the fake ads and the faux patriotism.
Yeah. I didn’t think much of the story, but man he has some fantastic quotes in that book.
And this one was strangely prescient:
Heinlein was a very smart man.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Sweetness. Thank you.
Anna on January 15, 2009 at 8:13 PM
The Band of Brothers collection is also at the top of the list
Patriot811 on January 15, 2009 at 8:17 PM
The way our luck runs, this time the enemy will probably conservative church going right wingers who wish to take over the world. They’ll be fought by people wearing berken stocks and were merely enjoying a simple common life of communal living when they were viciously invaded and the right wing nuts began to brainwash them.
Not too many true communists left in the world. The Chinese are about all that is left, and if they invade, it won’t be a short war. LOL. Although, with a little luck on our side, we might kill enough of them to get the government to abandon the one child policy.
Snake307 on January 15, 2009 at 8:17 PM
Black Hawk Down, the Book and the Movie!
“Super Six-One is Lucy….Star Four- One is Lucy” Star Four -Two is Lucy….Star Four- Three…..Star Four- Four…..Super Six -Two.
I keyed the mike on my cyclic “Super Six Four is Lucy” Now we waited for that one name we needed to hear “Irene” The signal that the mission was a Go
The code word to launch crackled in my ear, I grinned, and keyed my mike as I lifted off…Fckn’ “Irene”
Dr Evil on January 15, 2009 at 8:17 PM
I don’t know how old you are but while you’re reading Starship Troopers this weekend consider a few things. It was first published around 1959. The Russians had put Sputnik into orbit a couple of years prior to that. Nikita Khrushchev was rattling his nuclear sabers and in 1960 was banging his shoe on the table at the U.N. Children in school practiced duck and cover drills in preparation for nuclear war. Fallout shelters were being built in a lot of homes in the United States. There was a small movement (then) that believed that it would be better to live in subjugation to communism than to face them down and risk war. They were quite vocal and got lots of press coverage (imagine that) Heinlein, and most Americans of the time disagreed. This was the atmosphere when Starship Troopers first hit the bookshelves.
Oldnuke on January 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM
There is a series of scifi books called the Axis of Time trilogy (World War 2.1: Weapons of Choice, World War 2.2: Designated Targets, World War 2.3: Final Impact) written by the Australian Author John Birmingham that basically expands on the concept of the movie the Final Countdown.
Instead of just an Aircraft carrier being sent back to WWII an entire future Allied Battle fleet from the year 2021
that is blockading an Islamic caliphate in Indonesia is sucked back in time to World War II by a physics experiment gone wrong, only instead they end up getting tangled up in the battle of Midway completely changing the out come of the battle, meaning they have to get involved in the wider war to try and fix the the damage they have done and make sure the allies win the war. If you haven’t read this series I highly recommend it as it is an excellent read and I believe it would make an awesome movie.
Then again they could always just make a live action King of the hill movie.
Dreadnought223 on January 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Also Mr. Smith goes to Washington is a must
Patriot811 on January 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Yeah I’m glad that a few hours of flight sim time would let even an illiterate cave man fly a Harrier JET.
I actually laugh at all movies where somehow, plucky post-apocalyptic cavemen are able to defeat a force that had previously defeated the entire US Military.
apollyonbob on January 15, 2009 at 8:21 PM
The story was interesting. It was a glimpse into a future where everyone sang from the same sheet of music. Even the civilians believed in corporal punishment for criminal acts. There were no mass protests against this or that. No hysterical left wing lunatics who denounced the military industrial complex. They were people and they all agreed that criminal behavior could not be tolerated.
Johnny’s father spanked him for breaking a vase. He tells the boy later that you didn’t understand the value of the vase, so I didn’t punish you for that.
Also the book gives one of the most well considered explanations of value I have ever read. It completely destroys Marxian Economic Theory, and should be enough to destroy the current efforts of the Congress to create a centrally controlled economy, but it won’t be.
Snake307 on January 15, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Anything by Ayn Rand. Atlas Shrugged or Anthem to start off, but Fountainhead would rock as well.
webproze on January 15, 2009 at 8:24 PM
How about John Waynes “The Green Berets”!
I seen it at the Saturday movies when I was a kid,and
again a while ago!
Why they fought!
Took a sceptical journalist to the war zone,
and he seen the truth,and changed his mind,why
the US was involved!
And as a Conservative,John Wayne was making
a movie,when at the time,the liberal left
were gearing up to appose the Vietnam War!
And,like the US soldier who adopted the Iraqi
child;in the Green Beret’s,the young vietnamese
boy was also going to America,accept that US
Soldier died in the line of Duty!
But,at the end,you knew,that littles boys life,
was going to get better,you could see it in John
Waynes face on the tarmac!!
This movie was trashed by the Left,
and this movie is a mirror of the Iraq
conflict,as well as how the Left treated
both conflicts!:)
canopfor on January 15, 2009 at 8:25 PM
I see what you’re saying, but I think it wasn’t so much everyone singing from the same tune as the fact that not everyone got to vote. If you didn’t vote no one cared much what you said. Only veterans got to vote, people who had actually sacrificed something for society and survived. Not even serving members of the military could vote only mature veterans.
Oldnuke on January 15, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Battle of the Buldge
The Germans delivered a note,
‘Surrender’,
The US reply,”NUTS”!
canopfor on January 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM
Windtalkers–an action war film directed by John Woo. Nicolas Cage and Christian Slater star as two US Marine sergeants assigned to protect Navajo code talkers in Saipan during World War II.
Dollayo on January 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM
There is a Fountainhead movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041386/
Mark1971 on January 15, 2009 at 8:30 PM
Speaking of Heinlein and books that should be movies – The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a good one. I know it’s more libertarian than conservative (what, with the social structure and all), but it still had a great message.
Anna on January 15, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Master and Commander? Are you kidding me?
It was a thinly veiled gay love story!
bobeast on January 15, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I’m 28, so I didn’t live through that time…but yeah, I’ve seen the documentaries and read about the scene at that time. I imagine the “scary” level re: the Soviets and nuclear war was a lot greater than the terrorist threat today.
Well, glad I’ll have a good book to dive into this weekend.
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Go Tell The Spartans? Burt Lancaster.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077617/
Dr Evil on January 15, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Oh, I wanted to ask…I know it’s well beyond the 25 year limit, but would the old movie Fail Safe be considered a “conservative” movie?
JetBoy on January 15, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Okay,Amercanism,and Patriotic!
How about,’James Cagney’ in,
“Yankee Doodle Dandy”(1942).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVg6zueSIo
canopfor on January 15, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Too bad no one suggested The Right Stuff.
CrusaderMom on January 15, 2009 at 8:46 PM
Antz should be on there too. It’s anti-collectivist so it should count as conservative.
Loki on January 15, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Great call. The clash of their liberal cliches versus the recurring reality was great fun. Brian Dennehy flying in and shooting wolves from an airplane, and then the local Eskimo guide who sells out for some new teeth.
Jaibones on January 15, 2009 at 8:48 PM
PlEEEEEASE add Band of Brothers to the voting Ed!
Yes,I’m whining-but what else would you expect from
anthe annoying little twerp.annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Seems to be a glitch,on Yankee Doodle Dandy,
hope this works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVg6zueS1o&feature=PlayList&p=9F22DF62BAB9EDAE&playnext=1&index=15
canopfor on January 15, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Do you mean the 1965 movie? I thought it was awful. Battleground is much better.
Pelayo on January 15, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Obviously not enough people have seen The 13th Warrior. The list is good, but incomplete.
Hog Wild on January 15, 2009 at 8:51 PM
How Red Dawn is not the clear cut forerunner I dont know.
…because we live here!!!!!!
Vigilante on January 15, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Never Cry Wolf was one of my favorite movies.
Dr Evil on January 15, 2009 at 8:55 PM
I’ve only seen four or five movies on the ballot. I was going to vote, but “The Lives of Others” didn’t seem to be a choice.
bluetick on January 15, 2009 at 8:59 PM
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