Cop who shot Oscar Grant arrested for murder
posted at 1:35 pm on January 14, 2009 by Allahpundit
Anyone else see the trainwreck coming here?
Mehserle was arrested in the New Year’s Day shooting of Oscar Grant, a 22-year-old supermarket worker from Hayward who was lying facedown after being pulled off a BART train by police investigating a fight. An Alameda County judge signed an arrest warrant alleging murder, and Mehserle surrendered without incident, authorities said…
Sources said Mehserle was in Nevada because he feared for his safety after death threats were made against him. Douglas County is 15 miles south of Carson City in northwestern Nevada and includes part of Lake Tahoe.
Mehserle’s attorney, Christopher W. Miller of Sacramento, confirmed early today that his client was arrested on suspicion of murder.
Over to you, Jack Dunphy:
One theory circulating in the Bay Area media is that Mehserle believed he had drawn a Taser and intended to stun Grant rather than shoot him.
It’s a plausible theory, and indeed there have been incidents where officers mistakenly shot suspects they intended to shock with a Taser. And as theories go, its infinitely more plausible than the one alleging that in shooting Grant Mehserle committed “murder,” which under California law requires “malice aforethought.” In other words, for Mehserle to be convicted of murder, prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he decided, in front of several of his colleagues and scores of witnesses, that he had had enough of this guy he was trying to handcuff and chose to end the struggle by killing him.
I doubt it.
Me too, although Section 188 of the Penal Code leaves the D.A. with a back door to malice: “[Malice] is implied, when no considerable provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.” It’s clear as day that there was “no considerable provocation,” but if the jury accepts the taser theory, they might ignore that and simply decide that there can’t be murder if there was no intent to kill. Result: Acquittal, and a backlash in the streets even fiercer than the one that’s already occurred. My guess is that they’re planning to indict him for a lesser offense like voluntary manslaughter and only opted for murder on the warrant to delay the announcement about reducing the charges until everyone’s cooled down a bit, but lawyers are encouraged to tell me if I’m wrong. Exit question: Will they roll dice on a murder trial or step back?
Blowback
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libs are racist because they just nominated and elected a black president? okaaaayyy…. let me ask you what is the percentage of GOP lawmakers that are black?
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Guilty until proven innocent, in the world of a liberal.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Oh no, Mark, I am racist….the open borders crowd and those that voted for Obama tell me so. Noneya is a resident troll, but good for entertainment.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM
The only way to prove one isn’t a racist, is to ignore everything, and vote for someone based on their skin tone?
Gee, and people actually think that liberals know how to do logic.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM
libs are racist because they just nominated and elected a black president? okaaaayyy…. let me ask you what is the percentage of GOP lawmakers that are black?
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Yes they are racist because they voted Obama in simply because of the color of his skin. That is racism. Proof abounds, so don’t bother arguing.
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM
You have a pretty sick sense of humor. Do you torture small animals for laughs too?
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Wow. So I guess all the football & basketball teams are racist too? They seem to be disproportionately black don’t they? Or does your remarkably idiotic anti-logic only work in support of your oxygen-deprived worldview?
LimeyGeek on January 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Thanks for vouching for me, but Noneya doesn’t really want to see us as individuals.
Very unfortunate.
At least you should probably expect it, though I’d argue that even that was overboard in this case. The other cops had him down. I can’t see how tazing would have helped any.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Which explains why Alan Keyes always receives 90% of the black vote, oh, wait…….
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Still waiting for someone to give me that % of black GOP lawmakers…..
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM
No, but hockey is. Get it right. You can’t be racist against whites.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Noneya, you’ve got all the ‘net-presence of a tween.
LimeyGeek on January 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Either your ability to read is extremely selective, you are lying, or you manage to reinterpret everything through your hate filter.
None of which says much for you as a person.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM
No, just liberals. Small animals got rights you know.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Seems to be a requirement amongst liberals.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Come on, dude. You’re going off the rails.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM
You have a pretty sick sense of humor. Do you torture small animals for laughs too?
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM
I’ll bet he eats sea-kittens too! The BASTID!
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Why? Is the fact that very few blacks choose to be Republican somehow proof of our racism?
Considering 90% of blacks vote Democrat (and this year that number was at least 95%), I’m guessing we’ve got less than 5%, but that depends on what you mean by lawmaker.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM
If I had to guess I’d say mid-single digits. But I honestly have no idea, and I think it’s sad to base any groups performance or worth off the number of members of a certain race comprising it. I would guess you think so too.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Little late to the party, Mark. Do yourself a favor and catch up.
Tom_Shipley on January 14, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Noneya, if you want to change the discussion, sweetheart, let’s talk about the diversity in Barry’s Administration.
Not much.
kingsjester on January 14, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Unfortunately, “due process” will be another victim in this crime.
Neo-con Artist on January 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM
No, just trolls like you.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM
there is not one single African-American GOP member of Congress (out of 219 or 220); nor, for that matter, are there any black GOP Governors (out of 22).
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single poster here whom I would label racist.
I can only think of one whom I would lable anti-semitic, but first off, he was widely opposed by the vast majority of posters, and he managed to get himself banned for his behavior.
While there are many here whom I disagree with, sometimes strongly, there are some here whom I question their intelligence, there are none here I would label racist or evil.
There are a couple who might legitimately be called homophobic, but that’s it.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Yes, she eats sea-monkeys, with mustard. YUM!
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Catch up, I’ve already lapped you, and am getting ready to do it again.
I will say it again, if the law says that you must assume malice unless other motive is proven. And if the law says that malice gets you a harsher penalty than other motives, then the law is turning innocent until proven guilty on it’s head.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Please respond to my 4:18 and Esthier’s 4:17 posts.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:24 PM
For some strange reason, you seem to feel that this proves something.
MarkTheGreat on January 14, 2009 at 4:24 PM
And voting for one because of he or she’s skin color and not because of their qualifications IS RACIST!
95% of blacks voted for Obama…Racist…nah, because BLACKS can’t be racist…Bullfeathers!
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Well lets see…. Here in St. Louis about 90% of our politicians are black. The fire chief and police chief, heck even our Indian chief is black.
Vince on January 14, 2009 at 4:28 PM
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:25 PM
And, of course, they’re saying in Oakland that the Grant situation was Raaciiist, even though he had a criminal record that reached to the other side of the Bay.
kingsjester on January 14, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Yes, she eats sea-monkeys, with mustard. YUM!
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:23 PM
you mean like sea-macacas? AHA! RAAAACIST!
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Racist, Max. Racist. Go to your corner!
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:30 PM
And again, what do you expect of us? Should we start forcing blacks to run as Republicans?
Besides, Noneya, there are no black Democrats in Congress right now either.
And as to governors, there are only two, three if you count the territories.
We do have an Indian. The Democrats don’t have any, so would that make them racists against Indians?
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Yes, and like I said. When this cop is acquitted or given a slap on the wrist, Oakland will burn. Nothing like burning down your own town…..then Fema will come in and get blamed for not doing enough….the cycle continues. I need a drink…
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM
I think that 1st degree murder is a stretch.
Johan Klaus on January 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Then you know that Tom were merely explaining the law.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM
And one of their black govenors wasn’t even elected to the position.
Also, I don’t know, but would be curious to learn, how many black Democratic Congressmen/women come from districts without a sizeable black percentage of the population. We might be able to prove that white Democrats are just a racist as white Republicans.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:35 PM
There were ample samples during the primaries.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:42 PM
All the racism was lobbed from the dem side of the aisle, but republicans will always be tagged racists….common sense doesn’t reside with race baiters.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
How many governors are black democrats? Also, why it that liberals almost always look at the color of a persons skin first. Why don’t dems vote for people like Alan Keyes, instead of calling them racial sellouts. Look at the treatment that Clarence Thomas and Condoleezza Rice received.
Johan Klaus on January 14, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Two in the states, one in the territories.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 4:47 PM
They call them “oreos”. Sick, again, the racism from the left.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:48 PM
You know what I just realized. We went through close to 2 pages of comments, I think, without anyone bringing up race. Then Noneya brings it up to use as some kind of weapon against us it’s consumed the thread ever since.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Noneya does that. Always the contrary. Always about race.
Troll douchebag.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 4:50 PM
You know what I just realized. We went through close to 2 pages of comments, I think, without anyone bringing up race. Then Noneya brings it up to use as some kind of weapon against us it’s consumed the thread ever since.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 4:48 PM
astute observation Badger…obviously this board is a microcosm for the larger political sphere.
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 4:51 PM
“noneya” def.
Contraction of “none of your damn business”. Can be used whenever that longer phrase would be appropriate
Typical lib afflicted with “NobodyCanTellMeNothinitis”
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Hmmm…I was wondering if we would see an increase in the “the law doesn’t apply to me” attitude if a certain someone became president, especially among minorities in California as the “victim/entitlement” attitude is in California, e.g., Berkeley, SF etc. is strong with them.
Noneya, it seems to me that anyone that voices an opinion that doesn’t agree with yours or is “politically incorrect” in your eyes then they are racist and/or religious bigots.
First of all contrary to one of your earlier posts the subject Oscar was not handcuffed and was resisting officers’ attempts to subdue him and place the cuffs on him. If you could for one moment put yourself in the officers shoes in that situation you may not be so quick to call the officer a murderer, which is to an extend you playing judge, jury, and executioner. Also, as one that has rode on BART and sat in BART stations in Oakland to get to Hayward and Freemont many times I can honestly tell you that if you were a civilian or officer having to deal with some of the riffraff you encounter in that area of the BART system you would be a bit overly cautious yourself, especially if you were an officer called to deal with a fight on the train.
I’m not a cop but in my field I have worked with law enforcement and therefore have a decent understanding of the situations they face and them having to make some quick decisions. I’m not saying the officer shouldn’t be arrested (as he has been) nor am I saying he shouldn’t face a trial to determine exactly what occurred and if found guilty to determine a fair and just punishment for him, I agree that’s what should be done.
However there are circumstances in every situation and based on the facts so far and the video it was clear Oscar was resisting the officers attempts to subdue him. Oscar also has an extensive criminal record, and there was some sort of altercation on the train for which the officers involved were responding to. Now there are no facts on this part and I am speculating here but it would seem reasonable that it being in the wee hours of New Year’s morning I would not be surprised if Oscar and the others involved in the altercation on the train were under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs.
As anyone that has ever had too much alcohol and/or drugs we sometimes do things we wouldn’t normally do as our judgment is impaired, add to this Oscar was recently released from prison and if he had any drugs and/or a weapon on him it would be a quick return to the gray bar hotel, something I’m sure he wanted to avoid at any cost and therefore a possible reason he was resisting.
Now from the officers standpoint they had a combative suspect that was not submitting to being subdued (handcuffed) and it is also possible they had already run Oscar’s ID and were aware of his criminal past, so the officers at that point had to take control of the situation and get him subdued before he possibly obtained a weapon that he may have had on his person that could be used to harm the officers or others. Now you may say well that’s racist if they automatically assumed he may have a weapon (because he was black) well if that is your logv all I can say is in their line of work making the assumption that someone is NOT armed could make it your last assumption!
Now the fact the suspect ended up dead is tragic, but before we play judge, jury, and executioner we should find out why the officer drew his gun and shot the suspect. One of the theories is that the officer thought he was drawing his tazer instead of the pistol and this theory sounds like the most plausible and if the suspect was resisting (as it looked like in the video) and more forceful means were needed to subdue the suspect before he perhaps got a hold of a weapon then the officer drawing what he thought was his tazer was IMHO the right thing to do in order to subdue the suspect for his own safety and the safety of the public.
Not everything is black and white Noneya, and just because someone like me or others that post on HA call it like they see it does it make them racist/religious bigots, when instead calling it like they see it makes them honest in how they process the information regardless if it’s politically incorrect to do so. You see we on the right are not stifled by the PC doctrine of the left, if we see something that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck then we will call it a duck, regardless if it’s PC to do so or not!
Liberty or Death on January 14, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Catch up, I’ve already lapped you, and am getting ready to do it again.
Dude, let’s not turn this place into a bathroom stall in Minneapolis airport.
I will say it again, if the law says that you must assume malice unless other motive is proven. And if the law says that malice gets you a harsher penalty than other motives, then the law is turning innocent until proven guilty on it’s head.
No, because as I said before, this discussion is predicated on the fact that it has been proven or can be proven that the defendant did take the life of another person.
Malice is not assumed in absence of motive if it’s not clear whether the defendant actually did kill another person or not.
So, if a cop pulls a gun on a prone civilian and shoots him, and it can’t be shown the cop’s life was in danger or was physically threatened by the civilian or be shown he “mistakenly” drew his gun and fired or that he was insane, then it’s assumed that it was with malice that the gun was drawn and fired at the civilian.
Tom_Shipley on January 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Not bad.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Did you get a labotomy for Christmas?
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Tom Shipley said:
it can’t be shown the cop’s life was in danger ..
Are you a lawyer Tom? I hope not. Because from what I understand of the law in this case (and others) guilt would actually be assessed based on the officer’s
perceptionof whether his life was in danger or not, not the reality of whether he was actually in danger, In other words, if this officer perceived (wrongly even so) that the wriggling ex-con beneath him was going for a weapon, then he would not be found guilty of murder.max1 on January 14, 2009 at 5:15 PM
perceptionshould be perceptionmax1 on January 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM
I’m not an officer, but I’m having trouble with the Tazer/Gun defense. Is it protocol to tazer a suspect while another officer is holding the suspect down? Isn’t the officer holding the suspect at risk of being incapacitated as well?
Again, I don’t know the technical specifications of a field issue Tazer. But, if it’s bad enough to knock someone down and make them wet themselves, it can’t be any better for anyone in contact with the person on the receiving end.
Neo-con Artist on January 14, 2009 at 5:17 PM
I’m betting there will be riots for anything less than a conviction of Capital Murder with a Death Penalty chaser.
- The Cat
MirCat on January 14, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Its why MLK was a Republican. He must be rolling over in his grave at the racists liberals who invoke him when claiming not to be racist because they voted for a black man. Yikes.
ihasurnominashun on January 14, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Really? I mean the guy’s pinned down by several officers with no weapon.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 5:21 PM
The precious angel might have been resisting arrest…???
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Because from what I understand of the law in this case (and others) guilt would actually be assessed based on the officer’s perception of whether his life was in danger or not
Sure, you’re right. If it can be shown that the cop could have reasonably thought his or other lives were in danger, he would probably be in line for a lesser charge than murder.
Tom_Shipley on January 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Really? I mean the guy’s pinned down by several officers with no weapon.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 5:21 PM
I’m not sayin’ it’s not a heckuva stretch, just broad-brushing the law applicable to the situation
max1 on January 14, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Well gee; I guess they best start drawing a weapon and pointing it at the head of everyone they pull over for speeding too, lest their lack of lightning fast reflexes prevent them from stoping the “suspect” from drawing their non-existant weapon.
There were four cops. They were holding the guy face down on the ground. There was no reason to draw a weapon, be it a taser or firearm. No weapon was displayed. No punches were thrown. If four cops can’t handcuff one unarmed drunk without use of a taser or gun, they’re doing something wrong.
You and the rest of the “cops can do no wrong” crowd who to often sit on juries are what allows this sort of thing to happen. That whole “protect and serve” thing? That’s supposed to be “protect and serve the public”, not “protect and serve ourselves”.
Hollowpoint on January 14, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Sure, but that’s still a stretch from the cop fearing for his life.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 5:31 PM
It’s an even longer stretch to defend a career criminal acting like a proper angel.
HornetSting on January 14, 2009 at 5:38 PM
I didn’t think anyone did. He was in the process of being arrested.
Esthier on January 14, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Almost every first Black politician in the 1800s and early 1900s was a Republican, from the first Black Congressman in to the first Black man to give a speech at a major party convention. Martin Luther King was a Republican, Roy Innis and the membership of the Congress of Racial Equality (shamefully excised from Civil Rights history by White Liberals)was basically a Republican organization and it was White leftists who organized those riots “in Oscar grants name” which conveniently targeted Black owned Businesses last week.
I’m Bi-racial just like Obama (except my family is made up of actual Black folk, not some guy from Kenya that you and I both know probably wasn’t big on Black folk) and I know many Black Republicans. But riddle me this noneya, who was blocking Burris from his seat? How many Black folk are in power in the DNC?
Do you remember what Malcolm X said about White Liberals?
Troll Hot Air if you want but the people here (Conservatives) don’t speak for Republicans. There’s a difference. And maybe you should ask your White Liberal friends why they support a genocide against us in our own country perpetrated by Latino illegals.
Maybe you should check out the New Wide Awakes and see what Black Republicans are all about before glossing over us all.
Rob Taylor on January 14, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Tragic story for all involved including the Police Officer. I seriously doubt that he did this intending to kill this person and now he is in for a very difficult time. God Bless all involved!
sabbott on January 14, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Amen…most excellent and well stated!
Liberty or Death on January 14, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
When black Republicans do show themselves – and there are a lot more than you’re willing to admit – its people like YOU that throw Oreos at them.
Ryan Gandy on January 14, 2009 at 6:20 PM
+1
warbaby on January 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM
huh?
You guys have a token Indian and the token asian (who got nearly zero support from the national party) who got dollar bill’s seat, it hardly makes you guys the picture of diversity.
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 6:42 PM
i’ve never thrown anything at them, but yes they are a disgrace- the equivalent of jewish nazis….
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 6:43 PM
what won’t people like you excuse the cops for doing? a man was executed, it’s on camera, and you still make excuses for him!
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 6:47 PM
Martin Luther King was also a Republican because back then the Democrat Party was run by the Klan…LOL.
AprilOrit on January 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Diversity could be measured by the amount of government support, and since Republicans want less government support, and overall government, any group who depends on government would tend not to lean towards Republicans.
Democrats exist on handouts, so any recipients of gov. handouts, any organizations that depend on large gov. would gravitate towards Democrats.
So unions, education, minorities, unemployed, uneducated, gov employees, etc. would lean towards democrats.
Which is why it is so important for democrats to increase welfare, increase gov., and decrease education. You do realize that every major inner city, and every major city school district is democratic controlled and has been for decades…and of course you see the result of that.
The Republicans want the masses to be educated, not unionized, they want self reliance, not welfare, less taxes, all of that counter…so what groups want,is who the gravitate towards.
Cubans want independence, understand gov interference, they vote Republicans…Blacks seek welfare, 60% are unwed mothers, 40% drop out rate in high school, they have been taught they need gov. welfare, and indeed the great society destroyed one of the great cultures…before welfare, divorce rates, single mothers were less then the “whites”. But the democrats have created a welfare state, and have enslaved the blacks, making them think that they can only survive with the gov.
Yet, Asians don’t take gov. assistance, they are adamant about education, and consistently are at the top of the education system…and they vote Republican. they are every bit as identifiable as a “black”, plus they often have language hurdles.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is better to spend 4 hours a day studying, then 4 hours a day throwing a ball through a hoop…but the democrats do not want the blacks to be educated.
So who are the bigots? The ones perpetuating the welfare state,or the ones who want people educated and working…
right2bright on January 14, 2009 at 7:02 PM
For those of you in other parts of our country, one thing to consider for perspective’s sake is that the SF Bay Area is a very small town in many ways. Many of my friends who are natives tell me they have always considered it one place with different neighborhoods, with San Francisco being the downtown. That seems right to me, although I’ve only been here since the ’70s.
One thing this leads to is the perception that different mobs are rioting all over the place all the time, when in fact the hardcore loonies are at the source in almost every case.
An excellent education in this phenomenon can be had at Zombie’s page, which has been featuring coverage of every imaginable moonbat conclave in the area for over 5 years. Spend a few hours at this site and it quickly becomes apparent that the same faces surface over and over. I warn you, it’s not for the faint of heart.
In the last few weeks there have been endless angry near-riots, from the “No on H8″ crowd to the sickening Jew-hatred of the Hamas supporters to the “Oscar Grant Was the Victim of Imperialism” lunatics. All the same terminally disaffected ranters, every time, as Zombie documents elegantly.
If you have the questionable opportunity to witness any of this stuff in your area, you’ll probably be struck, as I have been, how much smaller and less consequential it appears when it’s not on TV. All of what the world witnesses is carefully orchestrated and choreographed for maximum effect, and of course the midstream media just laps it up with a spoon. Just another reason why I don’t own a TV, of course…
None of this is meant to minimize the real potential for the disaster the lefties are always hoping for, as laid out in their charter from Lenin. I really worry about the safety of my friends who have to go down into that mess every day, and constantly warn them to pay attention, if only for my sake.
God save our country.
warbaby on January 14, 2009 at 7:09 PM
There is a quote for the ages, black Republicans are like Jewish Nazis…so you can’t think for yourself if you are a black. If you don’t follow the “plan” you are a Jewish Nazi…I guess even you agree, you want blacks to stay on welfare.
Imagine, Thomas Sowell, like a Jewish Nazi…that is why we keep you around noneya, it reminds us of why we are not liberals…and it reminds us that there are really people like you, who think like you…
I estimate you are a hefty lonely women…eager for any interaction. Even if it means being on a conservative website, because on a liberal site you would be one of many and ignored…but here you can have attention, and a big lonely babe like you would need that…well you got the attention.
But to sell your self esteem for so cheap, to so desperately want the attention…my God, how lonely you must be…but hey, you got your Twinkies and keyboard…
right2bright on January 14, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Meanwhile they vote overwhelmingly liberal…so your “enclave” hope really doesn’t exist…SF is liberal, votes liberal, and has very little conservative ideals.
Would you say they voted maybe 70% liberal? Maybe more, probably the highest except for maybe Santa Cruz? or Oakland?
right2bright on January 14, 2009 at 7:18 PM
right2 – not sure what you mean by my “enclave” hope; maybe you conflated my post with someone else’s?
Doesn’t matter, though. You are certainly right about the voting patterns, although I think it’s worse in Sonoma County, where I live now, even than in Berkeley. The Congressional Record, no less, characterized Sonoma (Lynn Woolsey’s Congressional District) as “the Left-most county in the country.” Imagine.
My point, actually, and one that I think is hard to credit from a distance, is that most people in SF are just too hip to be political at all (that’s irony, by the way). That’s not defensible, of course, but most people I’ve known on the Left coast turn away in embarassment when politics enters the conversation – and then probably vote Democrat anyway.
The True Believers, while gaining in volume (loudness), are still a pretty small part of the population. It’s really been surprising to me to see radicalism make such (apparent) inroads in SF, which has happened enormously in the last 20 years or so, just because San Franciscans as a race have always had better things to do.
And as I said, the same idiots are the stink-disturbers in every case; most of my friends who still live in the city are highly skeptical that the idiots are residents of SF. A great public transportation system means that any riot is just a comfortable train-trip away, and SF is where the TV stations are.
Berkeley is the perfect place for Rent-a-Riot, and has been since the ’60s. I recommend David Horowitz’s Radical Son as an inside look at what that side of the Bay looked like when I moved to SF, btw. In San Francisco I was almost completely unaware of these lunatics even into the ’90s.
warbaby on January 14, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Electing a man based upon the color of his skin is a textbook case of racism.
The problem with leftists is that they assume that racism is the default state of mind for human beings, and especially anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their destructive ideology.
They are constantly bending over backwards to prove to the world (and especially themselves) that they are not racists. If someone is not something, then continuing to not be that thing does not usually require effort. I’m not a giraffe, and no matter how lazy I am about maintaining my non-giraffe nature, I’ll never become one. Only someone who was fighting against their own basic nature would struggle to avoid being something.
Race is nothing more than a synthetic categorization derived from genetically inherited superficial differences that are the result of geographic isolation. Everyone everywhere is just as human as anyone anywhere else. Unlike gender, race really is a social construct.
The left promotes the concept of race and racism in order to encourage tribalism and social disharmony. By encouraging people to identify themselves based upon superficial quirks of their appearance instead of the things that they believe and care about, one nation is made into many nations, which are then set to war with each other. All in order to set the stage for their communist revolution.
Not on my watch.
The death cult that is the left will have to go through me first.
leereyno on January 14, 2009 at 8:04 PM
…and the lovely christian folk at hot air! so now i’m rosie o’donell? hey, whatever gets you off…..
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 8:06 PM
There’s no way you are a liberal. You must an ultra-conservative who poses as a liberal and posts stupendously ridiculous comments on a conservative site in order to further every negative liberal stereotype in existance.
It’s some kind of genious double agent op. Brilliant.
BadgerHawk on January 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Woah. That was dumb.
crr6 on January 14, 2009 at 8:52 PM
What in God’s name is a Jewish nazi??
You mean – God save our country from:
1). those who wear the badge and feel they are above the law
2). those who excuse their behavior
AprilOrit on January 14, 2009 at 9:50 PM
I just watched a video of a police officer confronting a gunman who was holding a rifle. The officer had his weapon drawn and he was demanding that gunman drop the rifle. The gunman started to lower the rifle to the ground, when another officer rounded the corner and shot the gunman in the back. I was startled and I thought that the officer nad murdered the gunman. As the newsman zoomed in on the gunman, I could see an automatic weapon, that gunman had removed from his back pocket with his free hand. I feel sure that if that cameraman had not documented what occured, then there would have hell to pay.
Johan Klaus on January 14, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Given that the man who was shot had two weapons, I don’t see much of a parallel with this case. It would be different if the guy who was shot went for a weapon that we can’t see in the video, but that wasn’t what happened.
Hollowpoint on January 14, 2009 at 10:51 PM
You ignorant liberal jackass. The smart conservative blacks are out there living their lives as conservatives do. Those black leftist lawmakers you are so proud of are professional race baiters who enslave minorities with socialism in order to line their pockets with tax payer money.
csdeven on January 14, 2009 at 11:23 PM
I am just saying that if I had not seen the zoom in, that I would have had a completely different opinion of what I had seen. The first time that I saw the Rodney King video, I thought that police were completely in the wrong. When I saw the entire video, it changed my mind.
These videos are not very clear and from what I can see, I think that the officer is clearly in the wrong, but it is hard to believe that he pulled his weapon with the intent to murder the man. I do believe that it was gross negligence.
Johan Klaus on January 14, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Rob, you have complete contempt. It’s not DNC racism why Burris is being blocked and we all know this. There are good arguments for Democratic racism and you spew the most stupid, pathetic non-reason possible. You do as much harm to reasonable about ideas about race in this country as Ted Kennedy.
Incredibly moronic or insane arguments for true propositions do not help establish the truth of a proposition. They in fact hurt the cause of truth.
thuja on January 15, 2009 at 12:18 AM
I get accused of being a Jewish Nazi all the time, but the accusers know very little about the meaning of the word “Nazi”. In practice, I think “Jewish Nazi” means a Jew interested in self-preservation.
thuja on January 15, 2009 at 12:22 AM
Would you have the same opinion if the republicans were the ones trying to keep Burris from being seated.
Johan Klaus on January 15, 2009 at 12:48 AM
Is it really that hard to admit the obvious fact that the problem for Burris being seated that Burris was appointed by a corrupt governor? To look for racism here is be on the level of a 9/11 truther or someone concerned about Obama’s birth certificate. I mean who shot JFK? And aren’t those Protocols of the Elders of Zion factual?
thuja on January 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM
Great, but your story has nothing what-so-ever to do with this story.
Oscar Grant was unarmed, proven, admitted by BART and every elected official in the area.
Mehserle a dishonest – dishonorable coward, he should have come forward.
He chose to listen to bad advice.
AprilOrit on January 15, 2009 at 2:14 AM
Wow.
Congratulations.
You’re officially a cartoon.
A caricature.
A leftist stereotype.
Because I can’t imagine any reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent person interested in debate saying something like this.
You pull out crap like this, and yet you still have the market cornered on “tolerance.”
The world you live in is an amazing one indeed.
Hawkins1701 on January 15, 2009 at 3:30 AM
I dont usually address people like Noneya because it’s just preaching into the ether but I’m going to violate my own rule just this once on the outside chance he/she will have a learning moment.
I do not know why black folk dont come to the Republican party. Most of the ones I know are conservative, politically as well as theologically. The Republican party represents their interests better than the Democrats. But lots of black folks have been preached to by people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton that they are victims and somebody owes them a living and the democrats reinforce that with their “social programs” that spend lots of money and help nobody. A case in point is LBJ’s Great Society program that has spent trillions of dollars and was supposed to eradicate poverty. But the poor will always be with us wont they?
However, I do remember the civil rights riots of the 60′s. All of the people who stood in the way of equal rights for blacks were democrats. The Republican party by and large was “socially liberal” because they championed the black cause. Even James Farmer said JFK had to be “blackmailed” into supporting the black rights cause. Remember, Kennedy came out of a compound in Massachusetts and I doubt either he or his many brothers and sisters had even seen a person of color except for those who served on their serving staff. And it’s no secret old man Joe Kennedy was racist and anti-Semitic.
It wasnt until after LBJ came into office that the democrat party recognized the value of having the black vote. He then twisted arms and coerced his fellow democrats to pass the Civil Rights Bill of 1965. He said on tape, and I wish I could find the tape because I’ve only heard it once, that “If we can get this bill passed these n*****s will be voting for us for the next 200 years.” LBJ was as racist as they come.
And it appears he was right. Good Christian black folks were willing to put aside the blood of abortion on Obama’s hands to vote for him because of his color and maybe his party.
It’s the liberal democrats that are racists not conservative Republicans.
Just a quick history lesson, not that it matters.
abcurtis on January 15, 2009 at 7:19 AM
Well this is one way to end:
Multiple Repeat Offenders
Prison Overcrowding
Career Criminals
Long Costly Trials
Liberal Justice (soft on crime)
Mark Garnett on January 15, 2009 at 9:10 AM
thuja -
I think that you’re missing the point that both Rob and Johan are trying to make. Neither of them, I believe, is really arguing that racism amongst the white Dem leadership is what drove Dems to initially refuse to seat Burris. The point they’re attempting to make is that if the parties were reversed; and it were white Republican leadership refusing to seat a black appointee; then no amount of extenuating circumstances (i.e. appointed by a corrupt governor, ate a live human baby on television) would get in the way of Leftists claiming that it was racism.
It’s about perception vs. reality. The Leftists who have gained absolute control over Western cultural institutions and information streams (education, entertainment, and news media) have spent the past 40+ years pushing certain memes onto the citizenry until we arrive at where we are now as a civilization: filled with people for whom “feelings” and “consciousness” are more important than facts, reason, and reality. For a perfect illustration, look no further than the abject ignorance on display in Noneya’s statement that black Republicans are the equivalent of Jewish Nazis.
rvastar on January 15, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Wow, that was one of the best posts I have ever read!
Excellent, I just wish the Republican party would expose this crap to the ignorant masses in such a way as to educate and inform about whom the far left in America really are… Racisits and anti-American.
Mark Garnett on January 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM
i’ve never thrown anything at them, but yes they are a disgrace- the equivalent of jewish nazis….
Noneya on January 14, 2009 at 6:43 PM
There is no such thing as a Jewish Nazi but there is such a thing as an Islamic Savage, especially the hamas variety.
LODGE4 on January 15, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Are you serious? Of course you are, but I ask anyway.
For Republicans it’s tokens, but for the Democrats it’s not because they have one extra? So, what, three minorities and they’re no longer tokens?
But I guess it doesn’t matter, because of what you say later…
So blacks can only think one way or else they’re Jewish Nazis? That’s extremely racist.
Surely you can see how those are two different cases. No matter how you look at it, Oscar was unarmed and was currently being held down by three other offices, none of whom decided they were in any danger. The other officers standing nearby didn’t either.
Esthier on January 15, 2009 at 2:44 PM
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