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Shocker: Berg lawsuit denied by Supreme Court

posted at 9:45 am on January 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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I haven’t seen any reporting on this development, but Philip Berg announced late yesterday that the Supreme Court has refused to hear his lawsuit on Barack Obama’s status as a natural-born citizen.  Berg provides no links to any opinion, but the court docket shows that they indeed denied him certiorari.  Berg doesn’t sound happy, needless to say:

Berg said, “I am disappointed for the 300+ million U.S. citizens, our ‘Forefathers’ and for the tens of thousands that have died defending ‘our’ Constitution.

I am committed to keep our efforts going to continue litigation until the truth of Obama being ‘not qualified’ for President comes out.  The Obama candidacy is the biggest ‘HOAX’ ever to be put forth to the citizens of the United States in 230 years.

Really?  And here I thought that was the one involving the eye on the back of the one-dollar bill.  Or perhaps the “culture of corruption” argument the Democrats used in 2006 to pretend that all corruption was Republican while one of their Congressmen hid $90,000 of kickback cash in his freezer.  Or the JFK assassination conspiracy theories.  Or, for that matter, Berg’s own 9/11 Trutherism.

Berg swears to continue the fight, apparently with the same enthusiasm he uses to convince people that the government really masterminded the attacks in New York City and Washington DC.  He’s preparing a number of other legal challenges that will go exactly nowhere, including a lawsuit from a military officer challenging Obama’s legal authority to act as Commander in Chief.  These will make for great reading and long comment threads on slow news days, but otherwise will be entirely pointless except as a commercial enterprise for Berg.

Hopefully, whatever opinion was generated from this denial will shortly become available.  In the interim, one can guess that it amounted to, “You have got to be kidding me.”


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Yawn. No kidding.

Mr. Joe on January 13, 2009 at 9:48 AM

Three things.

First Barack was born in Hawaii to an American citizen mother. Last time I checked, Hawaii was a state in 1961 and has been a U.S. territory well before that.

Second, there is no way once elected the Courts would intervene and disenfrancise Barack Obama now.

Third, Berg is a nutburger.

Mr. Joe on January 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Not surprising. The Supreme Court is controlled by the Lizard People.

/sarc.

rbj on January 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

I have yet to comprehend what is so freakin’ hard about showing your long form birth certificate? It’s easier to lawyer up thatn show the dang thing? Honestly.

Theworldisnotenough on January 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Trust, but verify!

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Doesn’t matter anymore. Home-grown or foreign-born, traitors to the intent of the Constitution are just that.

JiangxiDad on January 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Why shouldn’t Obama get the law book thrown at him like his opponents that run against him in his earlier stages.

the_nile on January 13, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Barack Enshala Obama will be the Commander-in-Chief, like it or not.

This issue will go as far as impeaching Bush did…

pherrman on January 13, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Mr. Joe on January 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Your second point is very sad in that, if there were to be a problem with Obama’s identity, the highest Court in the land would not rule on it.

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 9:58 AM

Not a surprise.

becki51758 on January 13, 2009 at 9:59 AM

I see where many of Berg’s followers have crawled back under their rocks.
I have never been so dissapointed in “conservatives” as the ones who took up this farce of a witch hunt.
It showed me that anyone can be drawn into these conspiracy theory’s, and when facts are pointed out to them…they just ignore the facts, and continue on their “quest”.
It was a great study and a real eye-opener for me…I can see now how Obama got elected, why people took the koo-aid at Jones Town, they just become blinded, and absolutely unmovable.
Here were some of the weird absolute “truths” some beleived. Add them up and you have a movement.
Obama was born in Kenya
born in Africa
born in Egypt
born on a plane
born in Arabia, flown to Kenya, then flown to Hawaii
his credentials wouldn’t allow him to drive a car in Hawaii
his COLB had these oddities:
proper number of folds
signature
state he was born in Hawaii (that is true, it states Honolulu, that still cracks me up)
embossed
proper borders
pixels not filled in
Identification number
fathers birth citizenship correct
dated
doctor name
hospital name
officials never used the exact words they wanted
never saw the “original” birth certificate
did I mention didn’t have the right number of folds?
COLB could be changed for a couple of bucks to show any birthplace
could change COLB for any reason
was not born to actual mother
did I mention the folds?
*
No wonder Obama got elected, this is what many of whom I thought were above this liberal truther nonsense, actually believed this stuff.
Of course often with the disclaimer “I know it might not be true but, his Colb’s didn’t have the right number of folds”

right2bright on January 13, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Berg’s case is a lost cause. There is a guy up in Washington state who has an interesting case. There is a rare clause in the Wash. St. Constituiton that gives the citizens “standing” to pursue which is why other cases have lost. I can’t find the info and don’t have time right now but it’s still in the making. hummmmm. Nevertheless it will be a thorn in Obama’s butt for a long time…

Exit question… will this thread generate as many hits as it did before the election?

katy on January 13, 2009 at 10:03 AM

First Barack was born in Hawaii to an American citizen mother. Last time I checked, Hawaii was a state in 1961 and has been a U.S. territory well before that.

Second, anyone, even the esteemed Baracky Obarfa (or in this case his father) can renounce their citizenship or that of their children whether or not they were born in a place that became a state in 1961. Indonesia required Indonesian citizenship to live in-country at the time that Baracky Senior and his boy lived there.

But beyond that, produce the frackin’ birth certificate, that’s all anyone is asking, he’s the consarned POTUS for gawd’s sake. If the leader of OUR nation can’t even fess up with a simple document, what does that say about him?

Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:03 AM

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

But this ain’t no hoax, just how it is. I can only Hope that we can Change the media malpractice.

kirkill on January 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Uh oh…someone didn’t like the cut of a few jibs. A couple of posts just went poof after being posted.

Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Exit question… will this thread generate as many hits as it did before the election?

katy on January 13, 2009 at 10:03 AM

No. Apathy has set in.

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Or not. My computer sux with a capital X.

Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Man with no country

The Austrian-born Hitler gave up his Austrian citizenship in 1925 and only obtained German nationality when Nazi officials in Braunschweig secured a position for him as a civil servant in the local administration in late February 1932.

As a civil servant, Hitler was automatically granted German citizenship, which allowed him to stand for election as president of the German Reich the following month.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3375877,00.html

The parallels are freaky.

Once we stop following the Constitution (the law), WE…ARE…DONE.

Let’s roll.

ex-Democrat on January 13, 2009 at 10:12 AM

My computer sux with a capital X.

Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Vista?

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:13 AM

No. Apathy has set in.

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Is apathy anything like “I just don’t give a s–t anymore”?

rplat on January 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Get with the HA lingo. It’s Shocka, not “Shocker”.

Personally? No Shocka.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Vista?
OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:13 AM

Nein, my beloved XP running Firefox.

But the PC itself is old, tired, cranky and regularly delights in doing stupid things which make my life he1l.

Similar to democrats, I suppose. Who knew my computer was a lib?

Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:17 AM

plat on January 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Heh! Close enough.

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:17 AM

I remember having to produce a birth certificate to join Little League baseball, is it too much to ask the same of someone who wants to be president? What is he hiding?

echosyst on January 13, 2009 at 10:17 AM

This is from Citizen Wells’ Blog (citizenwells.wordpress.com):

“URGENT From Lisa regarding Today’s SCOTUS ruling
written by Linda Starr, January 12, 2009
Here is a very brief explanation of what today’s ruling means to us…
What today’s ruling means is that WE’RE STILL ALIVE in the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. Phil filed a Petition for Writ of Cert BEFORE JUDGEMENT (in the 3rd Circuit) with SCOTUS. They denied the petition for Writ before judgement under Rule 11 because the case before the 3rd Circuit is still pending and there is still a legal remedy available to our case in the lower courts. If this case is denied at the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals, THEN Phil can once again go back to SCOTUS for remedy. The SCOTUS may yet grant the motion for emergency injunction against counting the votes for Soetoro/Obama – in effect, preventing the Inauguration on the 20th. As I understand it, then Biden would serve until this is resolved in some fashion. And Roberts COULD REFUSE to swear in Soetoro/Obama if this isn’t resolved.
If it comes to that, then Roberts could state that Barry needs to cough up the documents proving he is eligible, or he won’t be sworn in. We jsut don’t know what might happen next.
In the meantime, Bill Anderson’s motion for “permission” to file his case as a friend of the court was granted.
WE ARE NOT DEAD YET!!!

The folks who follow Citizen Wells aren’t going to give up anytime soon because they really believe in the letter of the Constitution and Obama’s ineligibility to be President.

gracie on January 13, 2009 at 10:17 AM

The parallels are freaky.

ex-Democrat on January 13, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Yah totally. Nostradamus totally called it, as did The Amazing Criswell.

DUDE.

They also both had “a”s in their names!

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Berg provides no links to any opinion, but the court docket shows that they indeed denied him certiorari.

That’s because there is no opinion. The court does not customarily issue an opinion when it denies a writ of certiorari. (It denies certiorari in thousands of cases every term. Can you image the workload if it wrote an opinion in everyone of those cases?)

paul006 on January 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Fact:

Obama will become our 44th President

Fire does melt steel

The sun will rise tomorrow

Rovin on January 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

The Supreme Court is scared sh!tless of widespread rioting, therefore they stick their heads in the sand. Something along the lines of “What we don’t know can’t hurt us.”

txsurveyor on January 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

All this profanity, anger and apathy makes me so damn mad I just don’t care anymore.

whitetop on January 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

All this profanity, anger and apathy makes me so damn mad I just don’t care anymore.

whitetop on January 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

I don’t care, I hate you, and you’re a %$#*!

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Yes, Berg’s a troofer and an idiot. But don’t dismiss The Messiah’s contributions to this fiasco. He’s the one who refused to present his original birth certificate, even though McCain put everything out there when his citizenship was questioned. What the hell’s the big deal? That would have been enough to shut up the conspiracy morons. And then to go so far as to have the Gov. of Hawaii put a lock-down on his certificate just days after his visit to Hawaii certainly didn’t help. I think he likes feeding into the right wing troofers to make us all look like idiots.

OT: anyone else hear Hillary moaning about greenhouse gases and melting glaciers?

IrishEi on January 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

He’s a fake in every conceivable way.

chunderroad on January 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

I still dont get it! I had to provide a certified copy of my birth certificate in order to obtain US citizenship, and then again to get a passport.

Why does Obama get a pass? Can I, as a naturalized citizen become President?

epluribusunum on January 13, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, he is still not a natural born citizen. A natural born citizen does not just mean one is born in the United States.

His father was a UK citizen and passed that citizenship on to his son.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM

I have yet to comprehend what is so freakin’ hard about showing your long form birth certificate?

I couldn’t do it. I don’t have the original and the only document the state I was born in will produce is a COLB. Miraculously, no one has ever given that document so much as a second thought.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

If the leader of OUR nation can’t even fess up with a simple document, what does that say about him?
Bishop on January 13, 2009 at 10:03 AM

Try this, Bishop: The Great Pretender from Roy Orbison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml1gW_f-U6E

Obama is a fraud and not equipped to run this country anywhere but into a deep money pit.

gracie on January 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, he is still not a natural born citizen. A natural born citizen does not just mean one is born in the United States.

Yes, he is and yes, it does mean that. See the 14th Amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Assuming that Obama was born in HI, which there’s no evidence to prove otherwise, then he is a citizen by having been born there.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM

The rest of us have to submit two forms of official ID, urine sample, and a stack of signed paperwork for the least important of jobs. Why shouldn’t our PRESIDENT have to pony up a real birth certificate before he commands our military. I’m not much on the conspiracy theories, but this smells funny.

Laura in Maryland on January 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM

The sun will rise tomorrow

Rovin on January 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Yes, “As the World Turns”.

Zaire67 on January 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

I like how Berg completely misuses the quotation marks in his press release, as if they denote emphasis. It makes his statement seem even more ridiculous.

Also, did anyone notice that Berg throws in the phrase “black American” completely out of the blue in his press release? Absolutely no context for it whatsoever. What’s that about?

tneloms on January 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:22 AM

You forgot: “And your Mother dresses you funny.”
ROFL

kingsjester on January 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

OT:

Cripes.

We need a Hillary thread, Ed!

Now she’s saying that poverty and hunger are the reasons for terrorism. *gag*

God help us.

IrishEi on January 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Ed, you don’t deal with the substance of the issue. You just throw out insults at the people who disagree with you. You didn’t think this proves your point, did you?

snaggletoothie on January 13, 2009 at 10:37 AM

If the leader of OUR nation can’t even fess up with a simple document, what does that say about him?

OK… I don’t believe our current president ever produced, for public viewing, his birth certificate. Therefore, I hereby formally demand to see George W. Bush’s birth certificate. After all, I wasn’t there when we was born, so I have no proof that he is a natural born US citizen.

What? He refuses to honor my petulance by producing a simple document?? Oh, dear – maybe he’s unqualified to be president…

Seriously, there is a lot to dislike about Barack Obama. And I’m sure we will be dealing with the aftermath of his uber-liberal policies, not just here at HotAir but as a nation, for decades to come. But this is just plain stupid, asking someone to produce proof of qualification, just because we disagree with them, and in spite of the fact that we’ve never questioned that particular qualification of any other candidate or president before.

Let’s stick the the real concerns, shall we?

psrch on January 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

A little more from Citizen Wells’ blog re: the argument that Obama is not eligible to be President:

Ace // January 13, 2009 at 9:30 am
The amicus brief is from an Arizona elector. This Arizona elector (a McCain elector) achieved standing on January 8, 2009 when the congress certified the electoral vote. Arizona law states that an elector can compel the Attorney General to discover the eligibility of candidates. Berg is attempting to have Soetoro’s birth certificate subpoenaed through this elector who has standing. The Supreme Court just agreed and confirmed that this elector has standing. The republican of Hawaii sealed Soetoro’s BC months ago. If the circuit subpoenas the BC, Soetoro may be in serious legal and political trouble.

gracie on January 13, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Pablo, you’re wrong. The UK citizenship is the problem.

Enjoy:
http://investigatingobama.blogspot.com/2008/12/donofrio-dual-citizenship-natural-born.html

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:41 AM

You have to show a birth certificate to join the Little League, but not to run for President. Nice to know we have our priorities in order.

eyedoc on January 13, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Too bad we closed all the asylums. Now we have to live with them.

GarandFan on January 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Pablo, you’re wrong. The UK citizenship is the problem.

Ah, because some fool’s lawsuit says so! Why read the silly constitution, when you have some truther’s view of things?

Hey, how’s that argument working out?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Second, anyone, even the esteemed Baracky Obarfa

That’s classic! But what about his Vice-President, Joe “Fart” Bidpoo poo?

YYZ on January 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM

It was over before it started, guys.

Give. It. Up!

There are other fights worth picking. Not this one.

newton on January 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Wahhhhh BUILDING 7!!!!

snaggletoothie on January 13, 2009 at 10:37 AM

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM

“epluribusunum on January 13, 2009 at 10:26 AM”

do u have lots of dirty soros and chicago money behind you? if so, then i say go for it!
:-(

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM

in spite of the fact that we’ve never questioned that particular qualification of any other candidate or president before.

Let’s stick the the real concerns, shall we?

psrch on January 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Other presidential candidates have not had a cloud on their natural-born status as Obama has, i.e. non-American father, enrolled in school as Indonesian, visiting Pakistan when Americans were not allowed into Pakistan.

txsurveyor on January 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Today, before the United States Supreme Court lies Leo Donofrio v. Nina Mitchell Wells, New Jersey Secretary of State. This suit was received by Justice Thomas and by the determination of the entire court, it is scheduled for conference on Friday December 5. This conference is held to decide what, if any, further steps should be taken. Only two of these steps would be to intervene in the process of selecting the president, or to hear oral arguments.

Oh, boy! maybe they’re on to something there!

Or, maybe not.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM

New information.

Obama’s Intelligence Adviser Involved in Security Breach

Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence adviser, John O. Brennan, heads a firm that was cited in March for breaching sensitive files in the State Department’s passport office….

Sources who tracked the investigation tell Newsmax that the main target of the breach was the Obama passport file, and that the contractor accessed the file in order to “cauterize” the records of potentially embarrassing information. ……

http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/brennan_passport_breach/2009/01/12/170430.html

Obama’s US passport file would have information such as his birth certificate, and whether he ever held a foreign passport.

indythinker on January 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Thanks for not reading the link Pablo.

To interpret the U.S. Constitution with intellectual honesty, one must maintain the integrity of the meaning of the Constitution. That means interpreting the letter of the law: its words and phrases, based upon the immediate context of the Constitution itself, any explanations of the framers, traditional meaning inherited by the framers, and the generally accepted, legal meanings of words and phrases in use at the time of its drafting. Further, attention is to be paid to the spirit of the law, by understanding the purposes of the framers and the results they sought or sought to avoid, as they drafted each element of the Constitution.

In view of these considerations, being a “natural born Citizen,” here requires meeting both of these two criteria: 1. citizenship must be passed on by the constitutionally pertinent principle of natural law, which assumes that citizenship is inherited from one’s father’s citizenship and, 2. citizenship must be granted by means of being born in the actual territory of the United States. Accordingly, to maintain the original intention of the Constitution’s framers, a U.S. President is to be free of competing allegiances with other nations, from birth onward.

The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn’t want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country. [I.O. ed., letter by John Jay] The Framers were comfortable making an exception for themselves. They did, after all, create the Constitution. But they were not comfortable with the possibility of future generations of Presidents being born under the jurisdiction of Foreign Powers, especially Great Britain and its monarchy, who the Framers and Colonists fought so hard in the American Revolution to be free of.

According to this case, Barack H. Obama II is not qualified, because his father, Barack H. Obama I, was a citizen of the United Kingdom as a Kenyan. Kenya was a British colony at the time of Obama II’s birth in 1961. This citizenship was conferred to Obama II by U.K. law. Further to this case is the apparent fact that Obama II became a citizen of Indonesia, when he lived there as a child with his mother and adoptive father, Lolo Soetoro. This would mean Obama’s U.S. Citizenship status was revoked, since Indonesia had no dual-citizenship provision with the U.S.A.

Obama is ineligible. Sorry to disappoint you.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM

“newton on January 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM”

we’re not gonna agree on this — duh1 still ducks the very simple, very easy step of showing the long form certificate — aren’t you the LEAST bit interested in why?

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM

…visiting Pakistan when Americans were not allowed into Pakistan.

When were Americans not allowed to travel to Pakistan, and what bearing would that have on The Messiah’s citizenship?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Let’s stick the the real concerns, shall we?

psrch on January 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

I didn’t realize that GWB’s father was Kenyan?

OldEnglish on January 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Or, maybe not.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM

What is your point by linking to that?

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Should a man who is not known to be a US citizen have the power to order US troops into battle? What are we going to tell the families of soldiers slain under Obama if we find out some years from now that in fact he was never the president? I believe that the current crop of lawsuits might in fact be going nowhere, but there eventually will be one that is heard.

indythinker on January 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Yes, he is and yes, it does mean that. See the 14th Amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Assuming that Obama was born in HI, which there’s no evidence to prove otherwise, then he is a citizen by having been born there.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM

I believe there is a difference between being a citizen and being a “Natural Born Citizen”. Only the latter qualifies constitionally, to be POTUS. There is so much of Obama’s past that is blank that the citizenship question, at the very least, should raise some eyebrows. This is especially true, given the fact that Obama has engaged three high powered law firms to defend him in the various challenges that have been in the courts, rather than simply sweeep them away with a single waive of his original Birth Cert. That alone, makes me wonder about his legitimicy.

Syd B. on January 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM

When were Americans not allowed to travel to Pakistan, and what bearing would that have on The Messiah’s citizenship?

Pablo

Obama traveled to Pakistan, at a time that US citizens could not go. It is likely he had an Indonesian or Kenyan passport at the time, and used that.

indythinker on January 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Assuming that Obama was born in HI, which there’s no evidence to prove otherwise, then he is a citizen by having been born there.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Contrary to popular belief, you are wrong.

The 14th gives Citizenship, not Natural Born Status. During the Founding Fathers day Natural Born was both born in America, and of an American Father. They actualy at one point put in a statute to make anyone born on American soil a Natural Born Citizen, BUT THEN SPECIFICLY CHANGED IT ABOUT 5 YEARS LATER (back to Citizen, not Natural Born Citizen… pretty clear they made a distinction)!

Its clear from writings at the time that they were concerned about divided loyalties, and the legal jeopardy you can have with dual citizenship, and so, for this ONE Office, they put in the Natural Born Clause.

There is one Supreme Court Case where Natural Born is discussed, but then in the conclusions they punt and do not rule on what Natural born means…. but DO say anyone born here is a Citizen.

Case was before the Supremes for an emergency ruling, but they punted last year as well…. Case was not settled, no ruling made… so stand by for further developments.

Romeo13 on January 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Obama is ineligible. Sorry to disappoint you.

Yeah, what does the Supreme Court know about Constitution eligibility? But wait…more trouble:

Donofrio also contends that two other candidates, Republican John McCain and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero, also are not natural-born citizens and thus ineligible to be president.

Donofrio is a nut. You might want to reassess your following along with him.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

I believe there is a difference between being a citizen and being a “Natural Born Citizen”. Only the latter qualifies constitionally, to be POTUS.

Syd B. on January 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Great. Since he was born in Hawaii, a US state, then the argument should be finito.

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Assuming that Obama was born in HI, which there’s no evidence to prove otherwise, then he is a citizen by having been born there.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM

That is untrue as well. There is evidence to prove otherwise. Especially if we’re going to accept an image of a birth certificate on dailykos.com as evidence.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM

This isn’t about Berg… Can people really believe that you don’t have to show your birth certificate to run for President? What’s Obama’s problem? Now, what if there is a terrorist born in say Pakistan and his parents move to the U.S. when he is only months old. Grows up in the U.S. and is articulate and clean and runs for President. Meanwhile he has been training as a “home-grown” terrorist to infiltrate the Government. It was a Grand Plan. Now, would that be a problem? Dah…. Isn’t there a way to use the Freedom of Information Act to access his passport records? I had to provide my birth certificate for that, as he probably should have had to do too. It’s sad that the people of this Country don’t have the right to see a President’s proof of birth to lead this nation. Shame on the Supreme Court.

suzyk on January 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM

My wife and I have a dear friend who has been trying to obtain his Michigan Driver’s License for several months now. Seems he was actually born, of American Parents, in CANADA and the State of Michigan, under orders from Homeland Security, requires proof of citizenship to obtain a driver’s license. Only a Birth Certificate or Passport provides sufficient proof.

Guess what, our friend, at 73 years of age, has no passport, served in the Coast Guard, has never left the country and was a Michigan resident for 70 of his 73 years. But, sans proof, he can’t get a Michigan driver’s license.

And Barack Obama still hasn’t produced the certifiable proof of HIS citizenship?

SeniorD on January 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM

I’m not in the Troofer camp, but I would like to see a case kind of like this hit SCOTUS, if for no other reasons than to explore 14A scholarship as well as nail down exactly who, in OldEnglish’s words, should be verifying Constitutional eligibility requirements for office.

Honestly I think the current interpetations of the 14A are well beyond that contemplated by the authors.

JohnTant on January 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM

That is untrue as well. There is evidence to prove otherwise. Especially if we’re going to accept an image of a birth certificate on dailykos.com as evidence.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM

…and a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper at the time he was born.

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM

You might want to reassess your following along with him.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

You aren’t making any sense at all. John McCain is ineligible as well, so what’s your point? Am I supposed to concede Obama is eligible because McCain is claimed to also be ineligible?

You need to do a lot of reading, son.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:55 AM

During the Founding Fathers day Natural Born was both born in America, and of an American Father.

And that would have been before the 14th Amendment. If you’re a citizen, you’re either natural born or naturalized. There are only two ways of getting there. Being born here gets you the first one, and makes you eligible for POTUS.

This argument is a great way to make yourself look absolutely ridiculous.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM

You aren’t making any sense at all. John McCain is ineligible as well, so what’s your point? Am I supposed to concede Obama is eligible because McCain is claimed to also be ineligible?

No, you should conclude that Donofrio is a nut and quit pitching his lunacy.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM

…and a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper at the time he was born.

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Ok, you missed the context of my argument. It’s not about what’s acceptable as evidence.

A blurb in a Hawaii newspaper is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Hawaii. Read above.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:57 AM

That is untrue as well. There is evidence to prove otherwise. Especially if we’re going to accept an image of a birth certificate on dailykos.com as evidence.

And what evidence is that? The State of Hawaii has issued the COLB and states that it is possession of the original. You might have noticed that Linda Lingle is not Markos Zuniga. Her RNC speech could be a clue.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM

This argument is a great way to make yourself look absolutely ridiculous.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Hello Pablo. I will try again.

The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn’t want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country.

Obama has a UK citizenship at the time of his birth, then an Indonesian citizenship in his youth.

That is the argument. It is perfectly logical.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM

proposed new rule — any b/c thread needs to have the red meat pic from now on …
:-)

this shouting match always breaks down to pretty much the same fault lines — varying degrees of “show the damn long form” versus varying degrees of “he’s natural-born. why? shut up, that’s why!”

so i continue to pose my same question to the latter crowd — WHAT IS WRONG WITH DEMANDING TO SEE THE LONG FORM?! I have yet to see a satisfactory answer to this query …

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 11:00 AM

A blurb in a Hawaii newspaper is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Hawaii. Read above.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Bolded part is impressive. First it’s “there no proof he was born in Hawaii because we don’t have the birth certificate”, then, suddenly, it’s irrelevant even if he was born in Hawaii.

The natural progression of the conspiracy theory. If the theory is disproven, simply alter it to a new demanded standard, until you find one that is utterly unprovable.

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 11:00 AM

It doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Hawaii. Read above.

Yeah, that FAILED suit is what really matters. On Planet Riposte, that is. Thanks, Paw!

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:00 AM

First it’s “there no proof he was born in Hawaii because we don’t have the birth certificate”,
MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 11:00 AM

No, I never said that. Sorry.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 11:01 AM

so i continue to pose my same question to the latter crowd — WHAT IS WRONG WITH DEMANDING TO SEE THE LONG FORM?!

Demand it from the State of Hawaii. They have it.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM

That is the argument. It is perfectly logical.

Great. Cite where it was codified into law and wasn’t amended by the 14th. Then build a suit around that and file it.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:03 AM

“Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM”

and they’re not volunteering it — hence we need the courts to compel them to do so!

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 11:03 AM

And what evidence is that?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM

His grandmother claims he was born in Kenya. The ambassador of Kenya claimed he was born in Kenya. And so on.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 11:04 AM

The Framers wanted…

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM

…and then the 14th amendment came along and shattered what they wanted. That’s the way it is. Theoretically, the 2nd amendment was intended to keep the populace as well-armed as the government in order that rebellion was always an option, but lately I’ve had trouble ordering a dozen M1 Abrams and a half a dozen F35s for my backyard.

MadisonConservative on January 13, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Obama has spent millions to avoid releasing his Certificate of Birth to the public. He has only shown his Certificate of Live Birth, which only reflects the information that one witness told the state government of Hawaii.

There are only two reasons why Obama has spent millions to prevent the release of his certificate of birth, and they are: (1) he does not have one because he was born in a foreign country, or (2) there is something very, very embarrassing on his Hawaiian certificate of birth.

The only thing that would be embarrassing enough to qualify for (2) is if his name was completely different from “Barack Hussein Obama II.” For example, if his name at birth was something like Barry Davis, meaning he was not in fact descended from Kenyans, but from Frank Marshall Davis. Yet that does not make sense, and I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Any explanation as to embarrassment has to overcome why Obama is spending so much money now when he could just produce the certificate of birth.

Therefore, a realistic possibility is that the people in Kenya are telling the truth when they say Obama was born in their country.

Was Obama a US-Kenya dual citizen, and when did his dual citizenship end?

Did Obama ever hold a Kenyan passport when he was a US-Kenya dual citizen?

Did Obama ever hold an Indonesian passport?

Has Obama ever had his name legally changed? If so, when? If not, why was he called Barry Soetoro?

Has Obama ever gone by any names other than Barack Obama, Barry Obama, and Barry Soetoro?

He is supposedly going to taking the oath as leader of the free world.

We have a right to know.

indythinker on January 13, 2009 at 11:05 AM

His grandmother claims he was born in Kenya. The ambassador of Kenya claimed he was born in Kenya.

And where are these affidavits? Where is the supporting documentation?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Great. Cite where it was codified into law and wasn’t amended by the 14th. Then build a suit around that and file it.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:03 AM

The 14th Amendment calls anyone born in the USA a “citizen.” However, see the declaration of the framer of the 14th amendment, about being a natural born citizen.

The chief framer of the related 14th Amendment of the Constitution, John A. Bingham corroborated this dual criteria stating, “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.”

And this requires Obama’s mother to have been 19 (longer story made short) when Barack-II was born. She was 18.

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM

And that would have been before the 14th Amendment. If you’re a citizen, you’re either natural born or naturalized. There are only two ways of getting there. Being born here gets you the first one, and makes you eligible for POTUS.

This argument is a great way to make yourself look absolutely ridiculous.

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Please, go read the 14th. It confers Citizenship, not natural born status (which the founding Fathers saw as a different thing).

And that would have been before the 14th Amendment. If you’re a citizen, you’re either natural born or naturalized. There are only two ways of getting there. Being born here gets you the first one, and makes you eligible for POTUS.

This argument is a great way to make yourself look absolutely ridiculous.

There were LOTS of exceptions when the 14th was adopted…
In fact, the 14th did not even confer citizenship to people born of Chinese Parents at the time it was ratified… took a Supreme Court case to do that, and that case while talking about Natual Born Status specificly did NOT confer that Natural Born status, which it very easily could have done.

Remember, dual US citizenship was not recognized until pretty recently… and this is somthing that needs to be looked at… do we want a Dual Citizen to be able to be President, when with current law, you can be held accountable by ANY Country that you are a citizen of?

Romeo13 on January 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM

“Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM”

and we throw that exact type of question right back in your face with WHERE’S THE FRAKKING LONG FORM?!

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Demand it from the State of Hawaii. They have it.
Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Good idea. But Obama won’t cough it up willingly. We need a subpoena from a court to get it.

gracie on January 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM

There are only two reasons why Obama has spent millions to prevent the release of his certificate of birth, and they are: (1) he does not have one because he was born in a foreign country, or (2) there is something very, very embarrassing on his Hawaiian certificate of birth.

You forgot #3. He doesn’t have one for the same reason I don’t: it was lost over time. And he can’t get one because Hawaii doesn’t reissue the long form, they issue a COLB.

Also, has Obama spent millions on this? When? To whom?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:08 AM

And where are these affidavits? Where is the supporting documentation?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Not sure where to find the grandmother bit. But the Kenyan ambassador is on tape saying that.

http://www.rense.com/general84/ken.htm

Riposte on January 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM

and we throw that exact type of question right back in your face with WHERE’S THE FRAKKING LONG FORM?!

HAWAII!!eleventy!!

Does that help?

Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Pablo, the information held by the State of Hawaii cannot be released to just anyone. Hawaiian law must expressly authorize the release. That means it will be only released if the person requests it be released, or a court orders that it be released.

It’s the same privacy protection that all American birth certificates have. The difference between you and him is that this man was elected President.

indythinker on January 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM

“Pablo on January 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM”

and once again it comes down to “they say they have it in a vault. that’s good enough for me!”

and that is where we part company on this issue …

Buckaroo on January 13, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Whether or not one agrees with the decision it seems increasingly obvious that (with perhaps Scalia, Thomas and Rehnquist excepted) the easiest way to transform people into shiftless bums is to nominate them to the Supreme Court. There’s an old saying that a town which cannot afford one lawyer can easily support two. Your rights are the highest concern provided your potential commission is higher than that which the other guy might bring in. To lift your wallet and call it “procedure.”

To the average ambulance chaser this may seem only another tick in the win column or loss column yet in the real world of people with real jobs who make things and devise actual products and services there is much of that Noonanesque elitism that the Washington Beltway knows best. If the peasants would only mind their own business there’s a tee time to meet this AM and the cocktail party circuit this PM after the pomp and circumstance of robes and puffery.

It isn’t that the Supremes fear riots or reactions or whatever. They’re lazy bums. Plain and simple. America may as well face that fact. If the Kelo decision wasn’t enough to convince the populace that these elitists bums in robes think they own you then nothing will.

viking01 on January 13, 2009 at 11:12 AM

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