All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don’t ever let up. Don’t ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain.

What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn’t like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, ‘Hell, they won’t miss me, just one man in thousands.’ But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like?

No, Goddamnit, Americans don’t think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn’t a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the ‘G.I. Shits.’

These are for the most part the jobs our Brave Women perform.

I didn’t take you for some dopey feminist.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM

I didn’t either but come to think of it women have earned my support as far as serving in the military goes. They serve with honor and distinction. I’m proud of them.

I also think that there are plenty of able-bodied men out there, who should be in the military long before we send our mothers, wives and daughters out to fight what is arguably the most ruthlessly demented enemy that this country has yet to face.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 4:04 PM

There may be an over abundance of so called men as you point out but they are not as patriotic as some women who volunteer to serve.

Our nation does not choose which enemy will attack us. Usually it is a ruthless enemy. Our valient men and women in the armed forces today will battle that enemy until either we win or they defeat us. In this war the victor has not yet been determined.

I am as concerned as you are why more men don’t volunteer for military service. Perhaps they are too fat from drinking beer. Maybe they are chicken, afraid they might get hurt. They are mostly wimps I suppose. At least we have brave women who volunteer to take their place and do a darn good job of it.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 4:04 PM

How many women died in the combat of 911? Should they not be working? Is working why they were exposed to the death and destruction on that day? Am I following your logic correctly?

If I truly loved, say, my daughter or wife, I’d want them toting a rifle in some craphole like Iraq
NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM

If you loved them as much as you profess you would leave the decision up to them rather than atttempt to dictate what they should do.

You know there are those in the democrat party who talk about freedom for the minority yet do everything in thier power to keep the minority in line. Never allowing them to excell on their own. Maybe I misjudge your motives but I see a parallel their with your view on women in the military. It’s an opportunity for the women who want it yet you want to deny them the opportunity. Am I wrong?

Nodonkey on the otherhand does not make that reasonable assessment.

No, what I’m saying is that overall, the cost-benefit to the military of them being there, falls short.

While some of them are very good, overall, they cost more money and time than they are worth. Having them around because it makes them feel good about themselves, has no real value to us.

I also don’t like that they are increasingly used in combat, which is why 99 of them have died in OIF and in Afghanistan. Do you think they should be in combat?

Because if you support women in the military, you also support women in combat.

I also think that there are plenty of able-bodied men out there, who should be in the military long before we send our mothers, wives and daughters out to fight what is arguably the most ruthlessly demented enemy that this country has yet to face.

But I know, all of this is completely unreasonable in the face of feelings being hurt.

The Monster on January 13, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Yes you seem to make a point that some women can meet the demands of military life. That is fair. Nodonkey on the otherhand does not make that reasonable assessment.

Sorry….it was a funny show. shreck yelling NO DONKEY!!!

I love Shreck too, no offense taken.

Or do you think I hate Schreck now too?

It’s obvious to the most casual observer how you feel about women. I am sorry you hate women so.

You’re right, I hate women because I don’t think they should be in combat, especially when there are scads of able bodied men who could and should take their place.

If I truly loved, say, my daughter or wife, I’d want them toting a rifle in some craphole like Iraq while I sit at home, drinking beer and watching football.

You provided some interesting comebacks before, telling me “I hate women” is really beneath you, I didn’t take you for some dopey feminist.

It’s obvious to the most casual observer how you feel about women. I am sorry you hate women so.

No, it’s not, and it’s unfair of you to say so.

Personally, I’m OK with women who can meet the physical demands of the job doing it if they want, but I completely understand why people who genuinely love women want them kept out of danger.

The desire to protect our women and children is fundamental to being a man. Having women in combat cuts against that, and calling it “hate” when someone reacts as NoDonkey has is outrageous.

NoDonkey

Have you ever seen Shreck? Every time I see your handle I think of Shreck. It makes me laugh.
ha ha

Sorry….it was a funny show. shreck yelling NO DONKEY!!!

ha ha

I know how those who believe as you do make those patriotic women feel.

You said…

I don’t care how they feel.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 11:57 AM

It’s obvious to the most casual observer how you feel about women. I am sorry you hate women so.

I know how those who believe as you do make those patriotic women feel.

I don’t care how they feel.

I want them to be alive for their families and especially their young children.

I’m a father of very young children and you know what?

They love me, but my daughter is nine months old and her mommy is everything to her.

Young children and babies should not be deprived of their mothers for some misguided, counterproductive, social engineering scheme or to assuage hurt feelings.

But don’t pretend that they aren’t already in combat, because if you look at this list – they are.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 11:32 AM

What I said was they are not in combat arms. I never said they were not in combat. Remember the Women Marine’s who returned fire and captured the Iraqi Soldiers who shot at them? They did it because they get virtually the same physical training as Male Marines and exactly the same training with a weapon. They are fierce warriors and above all they are Marines. They have made much progress and many sacrifices but they earned their title Marine. They are the equal of any other Marine. They are some of the best of the best. The bravest, hardest working, loyal, Marines of all time. If you can’t respect them it is your problem. We Marines sure do.

I am well aware that women service members die in combat. So do male service members. I can’t quite put my finger on it but I remember something about war causing death and destruction. It is sad but necessary that some will die defending you and I.

Women are serving in this war. They are there and we owe them our gratitude and support. It’s a little late now after the battle has been joined to reconsider. Maybe how I was treated during Vietnam as a Marine taints my view a bit. I know how those who believe as you do make those patriotic women feel. It is very painful to be told you are not up to the task after you already know you are. It’s disrespectful at the very least. I think your motivation to protect them is honorable. I’m not sure they will agree.

http://cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp?docID=335

Everyone in this war is serving “In Harm’s Way,” but “Direct Ground Combat” units, such as the infantry, engage in deliberate offensive action against the enemy. Most of the servicewomen whose names are listed below were killed by improvised explosive devices (IEDs), and some died in military plane crashes. Twelve were mothers of one or more children age 18 and younger. One female soldier, whose body was shattered by an explosive device she was attempting to disarm, died in the arms of her soldier husband who was stationed nearby.

If you think women in the military is a good idea, we can agree to disagree on that.

But don’t pretend that they aren’t already in combat, because if you look at this list – they are.

Would you ask your wife or daughter to defend your house from a burgler, while you sat in bed, watching TV?

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Well My wife is a better shot than I. She wakes up easier than I. My guess would be the discharge of her weapon would wake me up but the fun would be all over

How would you like to be the officer who has to write a letter to the family of a dead 20 year old mother?

I would not like to be the one to write a letter to the family of a dead 19 year old father either but I have.

Dead/captured/wounded men make units fight harder. Dead/captured/wounded women sap the morale of combat units and distract them from their missions. It’s been proven every time it’s been tried.
NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 11:06 AM

And the proof you offer for your last statement is?

Turn your speakers down before you go there. You been warned ;)

Sorry you have so little faith in the women of our great nation.

Has nothing to do with faith.

Women should not be sent into or near battle. Period.

Would you ask your wife or daughter to defend your house from a burgler, while you sat in bed, watching TV?

Of course not.

How would you like to be the officer who has to write a letter to the family of a dead 20 year old mother?

At least you’ll be spared writing it to her infant children, because they won’t ever know her.

The wars this country is going to have to fight are not the clean, easy wars like the Gulf War. Even Iraq/Afghanistan might be a picnic compared to what we’re going to have to do in Pakistan and Iran.

Dead/captured/wounded men make units fight harder. Dead/captured/wounded women sap the morale of combat units and distract them from their missions. It’s been proven every time it’s been tried.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Wanna see big tough Male Marines cry? Watch how they react to these young women as they sing A Marines Prayer.

It is respect for women that bring these men to tears. It is a mutual respect as you can see. In a few years some of these young women may be welcomed by these same men into Our Corp. Hear the men join in and sing with these kids. See them stand up in front the kids out of respect.

Sorry you have so little faith in the women of our great nation. They are more brave than you give them credit for. Yes they face high risks in many ways. Trust me they are up to the task. Our nation is better for it.

Unlike Israel our women are not in direct combat arms.

If women are in combat zones, they are in direct combat arms.

If the front gets overrun, eventually so does the rear. Every supply company, every hospital has a contingency plan for if/when that happens.

Fortunately, we are by far the strongest ground force in the world, so our front lines have not been overrun. But terrorist strikes on the supply lines or on hospitals are not unfathomable.

Let these animals take 100+ women and just think of the propaganda coup. Teary women paraded across the TV screen, just like the Iranians did to the British Marines and Sailors?

And the Democrats will push for women in combat. Democrats have said many times that because women are not in combat, their promotion chances aren’t as good as are those of men so therefore we need women in combat to ensure equal outcomes. And Democrats are all about equal outcomes.

It’s also appalling that women are not held to the same physical standards as men. They are permitted to have 10% more body fat and they only have to do 1/2 the number of pushups and situps.

The enemy doesn’t care whether or not you’re a woman. War doesn’t care whether or not you are a woman.

I’d compromise and say, if the women can meet the same physical standards as men, keep ‘em in, but I know that will never fly and it would mean 90% of them would be discharged anyway.

Anna on January 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM

What a nice patriotic family you have. Gosh I am so proud to have folks like you keeping America safe.

Thank You.

Cowboy is a compliment on January 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Yep along with several others we can’t post here.

Semper Fi!

Women have no business in the Marine Corps. Nor in the Army, Navy or Air Force. The cost-benefit is not there and it’s a horrible precedent.

I’ve served 20+ years for many reasons, but one of them is so my daughters will never have to.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 9:23 AMWomen have no business in the Marine Corps. Nor in the Army, Navy or Air Force. The cost-benefit is not there and it’s a horrible precedent.

I’ve served 20+ years for many reasons, but one of them is so my daughters will never have to.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 9:23 AM

Good news your daughters don’t have to serve. They may choose to though. You know how children rebel against their parents sometime.

For 60 years women have been part of our active military and have served even as far back as 1913 in the Marines.

I’m not denigrating the women

Ah but you are. Every woman who has served in the US Armed services is a volunteer and wants to serve our nation.

They do it honorably and with conviction. Yes some of them serve in combat zones. I don’t want them to be in combat either but it is the law of the land so I support them. They are very brave these American women.

There are many reasons why those we elect allow women in combat zones. Unlike Israel our women are not in direct combat arms. They can fight if needed, let there be no doubt American women are tough adversaries for any enemy. I have old fashioned ideas like you but I support the women just the same. To say they don’t belong is a slap in their face. If Pat said that he does not deserve to win either. Maybe that’s why he never does.

I never considered my daughter any different than my sons as far as the service. I have one Marine son and one army son both joined during the original gulf war. My daughter married and is raising her family. If she joined the military I would be just as proud of her as I am of my sons.

Military service is a calling as you yourself know. Women deserve to be a part of it.

I’ve served 20+ years for many reasons, but one of them is so my daughters will never have to.

NoDonkey on January 13, 2009 at 9:23 AM

That’s a shame. My family has served this country since they immigrated here last century – my grandfather in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam, my mother worked the DMZ and dropped into Grenada (interesting story), and I was in during 9/11 and helped support both Iraq and Afghanistan missions until medically discharged (knee). My husband is currently active duty, in his 8th year of service. We have a daughter and two sons, and would be honored if any and all of them went into the military after us, especially our daughter.

You think it would be cheaper to hire civilians to say, be a translator? Well, it’s well-known that women are more capable of learning languages later in life than men, it’s one of the reasons DLI is chock full of women. You’d have to pay the same amount of money for language school, and training, but the civilian certainly earns more on the flip side. Many of the people I went to language school with got out of the military and worked for the DoD to get better pay/benefits. Seems to me it would not be cheaper to replace these desk jobs with civilians. If I had more experience with the other support jobs, I’m sure I could do the cost analysis there too.

I was a single mother in the service for about a year (when I married my husband). I did not recieve nor ask for special treatment, and I worked rotating shifts up to a few hours before giving birth. Even after getting married, I was never stationed with my husband (he was sent to San Diego, I was at Ft. Meade). I worked just as hard and long as my childless officemates, and thankfully I worked with people who appreciated my sacrifices and the quality of my work. NoDonkey, you say you honor our service, but it is clearly evident that you do not, if you say we have no business in the services. If that is the case, than any man that has a family has no business in the service either.

Or you could realize that both women and men, family or no, might want to serve their country. I agree that some women should not be put in combat (and some women are capable of that, my mom was one, built like a man), but we have a role to play too. I am ever grateful for my 4.5 years of service, and I wish it had been more. It’s a shame you wish to deny that pride to so many others like me.

/rant off