Didn’t it used to be called “boot camp”?
posted at 4:38 pm on January 12, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Critics have accused the Defense Department of having fat in their budget, but at the moment, they’re more concerned about the adipose in their recruits. The Army’s top recruiter wants to launch a new fat farm to deal with the rising number of rejects barred from enlistment because of their weight:
The Army has been dismissing so many overweight applicants that its top recruiter, trying to keep troop numbers up in wartime, is considering starting a fat farm to transform chubby trainees into svelte soldiers.
Maj. Gen. Thomas Bostick, head of the Army Recruiting Command, said he wants to see a formal diet and fitness regimen running alongside a new school at Fort Jackson that helps aspiring troops earn their GEDs.
Bostick told The Associated Press that obesity looms as “a bigger challenge for us in the years ahead” than any other problem that keeps young people from entering the military, including lack of a GED or high school diploma, misconduct or criminal behavior and other health issues such as eye or ear problems.
This really isn’t a laughing matter. The British (and the US, to a lesser extent) learned a hard lesson between the two world wars about the health of its youth and the ability to effectively defend one’s nation. The Germans spent the two decades between the wars doing everything possible to turn out healthy young men who could bring stamina to warfare. Now, the national obesity problem has come home to roost in the all-volunteer military, and a lack of physical regimen in school has complicated our ability to fill our ranks.
Physical conditioning isn’t the only problem, either. The decline in high-school graduation rates also makes recruitment more difficult, as the story notes. This belies the idea, offered by John Kerry and others over the last couple of years, that the unintelligent and ignorant wind up in uniform. In fact, the military has consistently held to its standard of high-school diplomas or GEDs as a prerequisite to service, but now they have to provide more assistance to get young men and women over that mental hurdle than ever before.
Regardless of what philosophy one holds for education, clearly we are failing a larger number of younger Americans both mentally and physically in their education — and we will clearly pay a price for that neglect. On the other hand, we used to believe that boot camp itself effectively addressed this, especially during the years of the national draft. Have we dumbed down boot camp, or does it just not have enough time to tone up rejected recruits?
In the clip below from the 1981 classic Army comedy Stripes, the late great John Candy talks about his desire to become a “lean, mean fighting machine”:
Blowback
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Stripes? Staff Sergeant Hartman is in order:
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Holy Jesus! What is that? What the fuck is that? WHAT IS THAT, PRIVATE PYLE?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, a jelly doughnut, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: A jelly doughnut?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: How did it get here?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, I took it from the mess hall, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Is chow allowed in the barracks, Private Pyle?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Are you allowed to eat jelly doughnuts, Private Pyle?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: And why not, Private Pyle?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, because I’m too heavy, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Because you are a disgusting fat body, Private Pyle!
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Then why did you try to sneak a jelly doughnut in your foot locker, Private Pyle?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, because I was hungry, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Because you were hungry…
[turns and addresses rest of platoon]
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Pyle has dishonored himself and dishonored the platoon. I have tried to help him. But I have failed. I have failed because YOU have not helped me. YOU people, have not given Private Pyle the proper motivation! So, from now on, whenever Private Pyle fucks up, I will not punish him! I will punish all of YOU! And the way I see it ladies, you owe me for ONE JELLY DOUGHNUT! NOW, GET DOWN ON YOUR FACES!
[rest of recruits get in front-leaning-rest position, Hartman turns to Pyle]
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Open your mouth!
[shoves jelly doughnut into PYLE's mouth]
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: They’re payin’ for it; YOU eat it! Ready! Exercise!
NoDonkey on January 12, 2009 at 4:41 PM
That was the purpose behind the German Youth (and supposedly the Boy Scouts when Baden Powell started it up)
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Hmmm, more wasteful spending.
When I was at Parris Island( in 1968) we had a platoon called the Motivational Platoon that somewhat overweight and attitudinal boots were assigned to …. those with weight issues were put on diets and such and the others were PT’d into the mud. But, at no time were lardos brought INTO the service and I suspect this is what is happening. How in the heck can you pass a pre enlistment physical then have to go to a fat farm…. this is nuts!
MNDavenotPC on January 12, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Probably can’t lift half of her considerable weight, either.
Women in the military are a complete waste of money and time, there I said it.
They cause far more problems than they are worth.
The vast majority are desk jockies would could easily be replaced by civilians.
And the ones who are anywhere near combat are unreliable, as they too often get knocked up prior to deploying or while deployed, neither of which is penalized.
If an honest cost benefit of women in the military were to be done, they would all be tossed out. There are individuals who do a great job of course but in general, they do not pull their (often considerable) weight.
NoDonkey on January 12, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Bootcamp was pretty easy, but then again, it was the AIR FORCE! haha :-) Actually when I left boot, I had a six pack! (No, not the beer kind!) But it’s pretty sad that kids are too fat to make it outta bootcamp. If you know you’re gonna join the military, you really outta get a head start and jog, do push ups and sit ups, etc. If not, you’re gonna be the guy at the end of the line, weezin’ and gaspin’ for air while the rest of the guys laugh at your fat azz.
Tony737 on January 12, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Good question. I don’t get why we’d need to turn anyone away for weight. I thought boot camp was successful as a fat camp.
Esthier on January 12, 2009 at 4:49 PM
“Boot Camp” is what the Navy/ Marines call it. In the Army its “Basic Combat Training” (BCT), “Basic Training”, or just plain “Basic”.
chairborne on January 12, 2009 at 4:50 PM
If I understand it right, they have to go through this fat farm to get their weight down so they can enlist. I don’t see anything wrong with it.
lowandslow on January 12, 2009 at 4:51 PM
By extending basic training three weeks, with extra PT and conditioning thrown in, most of these overly heavy recruits will find themselves a bit more lean, and ready for AIT.
But, a problem the Army cannot address, nor should it be required to, is that obesity and diabetes rates in American youth are skyrocketing, as well as other nutrition related illnesses. Lowering Army entrance standards to enable morbidly obese or diabetic recruits to enter the Army seems pretty dumb. Unless they intend to rapidly expand VA medical care and soon, any of these “recruits” who wash out and are documented having morbid obesity or diabetes (based on Army exit physicals) can easily make a case for taxpayer-funded treatment at a VA facility.
The solution? Your guess is as good as mine.
coldwarrior on January 12, 2009 at 4:51 PM
I actually gained weight during my initiation into the military, at Officers Indoctrination School at Newport, Rhode Island.
Good seafood there and the Officer’s Club at a great Sunday brunch.
Those were the days . . . before Tailhook.
NoDonkey on January 12, 2009 at 4:52 PM
No they can’t.
You have to serve at least 180 days on active duty to be eligible for care at the VA.
If you wash out of boot camp, you just get a ride home.
NoDonkey on January 12, 2009 at 4:53 PM
I miss John Candy…His movies always make me laugh,..always!!
christene on January 12, 2009 at 4:55 PM
“Are you now, or have you ever been a homosexual?”
“No sir. But we are willing to learn.”
Sefton on January 12, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Hey, I know! How about a JROTC program?
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 4:57 PM
lowandslow
I think I understand what you’re saying. Then I have to ask this, the military is still signing up a fat person to serve in the military. I assume this is the case because, if the “large” person is going to Fat Farm, then he/she is obligated to serve. Sounds redundant to me. Just allow the fit in. In the Corps, you had better been fit, we couldn’t get our uniforms on otherwise.
MNDavenotPC on January 12, 2009 at 4:57 PM
NoDonkey on January 12, 2009 at 4:53 PM
That is how I understand the current regulations…but all it’ll take is one or two wash-outs with a lawyer and the Ninth District, for example…and voila…medical care for life being dictated by the Court. If no health issue was documented prior to enlistment, and a health issue is documented in an exit physical…the door opens a crack.
coldwarrior on January 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM
When I enlisted (some 24 years ago) they let people in who might have been overweight but who could be whipped into shape in the 6 weeks (USAF) of basic training.
What the “fat camp” would do is add some extra weeks to focus specifically on weight loss before regular basic for those who probably can’t get there in 6 weeks.
Makes sense to me.
Tuning Spork on January 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM
I think you need to reread the story. IF I read it write, the fat farm would be for those who currently CAN’T pass the physical, but would like to enlist someday when they get into shape, presumably from the “fat farm.”
Ordinary1 on January 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM
R. Lee Ermey should run for president in 2012. He’s the real deal.
ScottMcC on January 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Obama as CIC will be the new role model. You can be uber fit, smoke, eat waffles — anything you want.
BigD on January 12, 2009 at 4:59 PM
A little of both. Basic has been dumbed down in the area of discipline. PT hasn’t been dumbed down in basic training (boot camp is for juveniles that cannot be handled by their parents, basic training is for Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines). We still hold decent standards for PT.
The fact remains that if a person is overweight and is thinking about joining the military, they need to work on their PT before coming in, and meet the weight standards before they ship. People that are overweight while they’re in basic are a BURDEN upon the entire platoon. Not only are these people normally the cause of a nice evening “smoke session” (that’s where your platoon engages in PT during the evening instead of the hour that you get to do laundry, square your wall locker away, write letters home, etc.
Aside from being a burden on everyone in the platoon, overweight recruits are often miserable. They always stand at the end of the line during chow, the Drill Sergeant chooses the food that they’ll eat, as well as the amount. All in all, a fatty normally gets a good 5 minutes to eat for every meal in basic, maybe less.
If the generation that had kids in the 70′s and 80′s would stop shoving a damn hamburger into their kids mouths because of whatever lame excuse, and instead shove a chicken breast, some rice, and veggies in there instead, we wouldn’t have this problem in the first place.
leetpriest on January 12, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Forget the weight, it is the drop out that is really the problem.
We are running at 35% drop out rate…this is after decades of the liberals running every major school district program.
They want to just gloss over this little gem…every major school district program has been run by liberals for decades, every one of them.
The liberals own the school system and the problems associated with it.
I would rather have 100% overweight and 100% graduation…it would make for a healthier country.
right2bright on January 12, 2009 at 5:00 PM
I remember in 4th or 5th grade climbing a big fat rope to the gym ceiling. There were some kids who couldn’t do it, but the point is we had PE all through elementary, jr. high and high school. I can see some present day parents and teachers being appalled at 10 and 11 year olds being allowed, much less required, to climb 25 feet off the ground! This PC nation is falling apart at the seems.
“Young man, get out of that tree right this instant and come down here and put a helmet on!”
I’m outta shape now, but I have an excuse. I’m old :-)
Ordinary1 on January 12, 2009 at 5:04 PM
More and more these days basic training is including War-on-Terror specific elements. Since I’ve been through (2003) they’ve added convoy-live-fire exercises, MOUT training (Military Operations on Urban Terrain), and I’m sure much more. While physical training is always emphasized, you can only do so much in 9 weeks. Much like what MNDavenotPC had in the USMC the has Companies in Basic Training dedicated to keeping soldiers “in the system”. Trainees in the Companies are recovering from injuries, loosing (and sometimes gaining), the necessary weight, meeting the physical requirements, etc.
This program that Recruiting command is proposing sounds like a wise thing to me. I think it has more to do with dealing with the rising obesity problem in this country’s youth that making a “dumbed down boot camp.”
chairborne on January 12, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Don’t be surprised if we initially get a surge in recruitment if Obama asks for “service to country” during his inaugural.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Oh, but it’s not THEIR fault, you see.
They just need more money.
The schools ALWAYS just need more money.
Hawkins1701 on January 12, 2009 at 5:05 PM
I spent about a year as a contractor there a few years ago. I recall having crab legs the size of a baby’s arm several times at the chow hall for $3.25.
I also put 20 lbs on in boot camp long, long ago. Adding 20 lbs to my 17 year old, 115 lb frame was not a problem.
Pablo on January 12, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Yeah but he still golfs like a spaz.
lowandslow on January 12, 2009 at 5:06 PM
I’m 48 years old and in good health, though not really in athletic shape. I wonder if there is any way I can volunteer, if not for a combat role then for some sort of support role.
J.J. Sefton on January 12, 2009 at 5:06 PM
seams even
Ordinary1 on January 12, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Only roughly 30% of 18 year olds are even eligible to join the military, as a result of being school drop outs or out of shape, mostly.
The National Guard is in the process of standing up multiple academies for recruits to go and earn a GED before they ship to basic. And of course Basic Combat Training is fairly good at working on the tubby-tub part of the problem.
BadgerHawk on January 12, 2009 at 5:07 PM
For those thinking it’s a waste of money, this is refinement. You use the materials you can get. If you can’t get iron to make steel, you smelt the iron ore into iron and then make steel.
We should be treating this soldiers with has much respect as any other soldier. After all, they still volunteered.
- The Cat
MirCat on January 12, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Using all the PC methods in which we are integrated into the services, I agree with you. Case in point: the way some women use pregnancy to get out of tough or undesired duty.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 5:07 PM
If the Army is already running a GED program, why not fat camp? As I read it, this would be for potential recruits whose only barrier to enlistment is their weight. It’s hard for a kid still living at home to put himself through a good conditioning program — he’s still living with the people that helped him get fat in the first place. The Army is recruiting from a diminishing pool of qualified applicants. Anything they can do to help young people turn their lives around and become good soldiers is a good idea to me.
doppelganglander on January 12, 2009 at 5:08 PM
clearly we are failing a larger number of younger Americans both mentally and physically in their education — and we will clearly pay a price for that neglect. On the other hand, we used to believe that boot camp itself effectively addressed this, especially during the years of the national draft. Have we dumbed down boot camp, or does it just not have enough time to tone up rejected recruits?
If what you mean to say is : Kids are being failed because “educators” have taken away recess, outside time, gym, dodge ball, etc. for the sake of diversity trainng, community outreach time, volunteerism, etc. then yes, kids have been failed in education.
Boot camp doesn’t address it as much as it should, at least in the AF. AF recruits spend more time sitting in a classroom, receiving JAG briefings, sensitivyt training than they do on the drill pad pt’ing. AF basidc also discourages treating a trainee like a trainee in favor of a kinder, gentler, more sensitive approach to training. At least in the AF, civilian psycholgy phd’s have more a a say in trainin,our next generation than our own military men do. Lord forbid you talk derogitively to a new trainee.
When I came in the AF in 1987, my TI put a mouthy trainee in a wall locker and pushed the wallocker down a flight of stairs! One coud argue about the benefits of such “heavy-handed” technigues, but the trainee in question never uttered another sarcastic word for the remainder of baisc. This was only a generation ago, we have indeed come far and not in a good way.
What is good is that the AF seems to have finally figured out the error of its ways, but it may be a little to little to late. Time will tell.
catmman on January 12, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Back at Fort Dix, back when the earth was still cooling, we had a “Cat Four” platoon in our Basic Training company…and the extra Drill Sgt’s ran these guys an hour before the rest of greeted the morning, and had them doing other PT during breaks in the training day, and they just plain made life tough for them…the motivation was that the sooner they got up to speed the sooner they’d be assigned to a regular platoon.
This pre-Basic “fat farm” idea seems to be one of those bad ideas for all sorts of good reasons. Does fat farm time count as enlistment time?
coldwarrior on January 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM
The dirty secret is the drop out rate is high in all branches of the military. Biggest culprit, lack of excercise in childhood and too much soda/pop and not enough milk. Stress fracutres plague all services. We are becoming weak. There are only so many kids who have worked hard before they went into the military.
But I am all for taking overweight kids and getting them in shape first before sending them to basic training. If done right it could be a very positive thing. The key to doing well in high stress combat situation is physical fitness and training. The more the better.
Mr. Joe on January 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM
So did I (AF enlisted BMTS). But then at 103 lbs. soaking wet there’s nowhere to go but up.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM
It happens even in Israel. I guess less kids there are working on the kibbutz.
Mr. Joe on January 12, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Then there were city kids who used to be able to play hard. I remember skating and bicycle riding here in LA with my friends and no one would bother us. Not saying that there weren’t perverts around thirty years ago, but they seem to have proliferated these days. And lets not mention the gangs.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 5:14 PM
With Iraq and Afghanistan, we unleashed equipment that increased the mobility of the military, thus a new warfighting style emerged – fully mounted combat, and the advent of an extremely mobile APC – the Stryker.
With a new warfighting style, we have to train our troops to that standard. Army Basic training is 9 weeks. That’s 9 weeks to condition a soldier to the physical standards, teach them to shoot, teach them all the Admin crap they need to learn, hand-to-hand combat, teach them to move under fire, night fire, live fire, teach them how to throw grenades, teach them basic survivability, teach them how to care for their uniforms, teach them the rank structure, teach first aid, take them through obstacle courses, and teach mounted combat.
That’s a lot to learn in 9 weeks. Not much time for a fatty camp.
leetpriest on January 12, 2009 at 5:14 PM
I seriously doubt that. They may be “proud” of their country right now at this very moment but they certainly are not going to sign up and defend America and our freedom that they take for granted every single day.
Kokonut on January 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Another failure of public schools.
Johan Klaus on January 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM
I didn’t so much gain weight as get far fitter while in the Marines. When your schedule is running 3 to 5 miles three times a week (fast, no jogging), an hour of calestentics every day, a few hours on the O course on the days we were not running, pull ups, push ups and sit ups, and a lot of forced marches with gear and boots, you tend to get fitter.
But I was pretty fit before I went in (if only I kept it up). Lots of kids try to do this cold, with most of their training consisting of operating a DS or Gameboy, which is a very bad mistake. Even if you are tough enough mentally to go from zero to sixty, it makes you very suseceptible to injury.
Mr. Joe on January 12, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Me too. Basic is good for scrawny college puke. Nothing like physical activity and three good meals a day to bulk up a kid who’s been getting buy on ramen noodles.
I miss Army chow. Meat and potatoes for every meal. “How about some more carbs with you carbs?”
chairborne on January 12, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Army training of nine weeks is a joke. It is not enough. Basic training should be a minimum of 12 weeks, followed by intensive infantry training for several months after that. Adding a get in shape four week course before basic training might delay things, but that delay would still be time well spent. The more phsically fit our forces are the better for them and us.
Mr. Joe on January 12, 2009 at 5:25 PM
And by then their contract would be up … hah!
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 5:26 PM
I don’t know. It all depends on how he presents it.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 5:27 PM
The dreaded stress card.
Johan Klaus on January 12, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Never heard of it.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 5:31 PM
There was a guy named Ogden In my platoon.
This guy was a ladies man to beat all.
He was tall and the chicks just melted over the guy.
He told me when he first tried to join the Corps they told him he’d have to lose over a hundred pounds, so he did and was able to join but he wound up having to stay in boot camp in the fat body platoon for a long time till he lost a bunch more.
Anyway, the guy was so self confident and handsome that is was amazing.
TheSitRep on January 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Put your ideas here: Obama’s Briefing Book
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM
If we’re talking infantry, then “Basic” isn’t even in the picture. Some fields have OSUT or One Station Unit Training, where Basic and Advanced Individual Training (AIT) are seamlessly combined. This is about 16 weeks. This is all still Initial Entry Training. The real training begins when the new soldier gets to his first unit and his NCOs gently (ahem) square them away.
chairborne on January 12, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Huh? In World War 2, the average soldier PUT ON five pounds during basic training. Widespread obesity is a brand new problem.
A little overweight is no big deal, but you can only lose so much in six weeks. If you’re OBESE – forget it. That’s going to take a lot of time, and until that bulk is off you’re not going to be able to keep up with the training it takes to be a soldier.
logis on January 12, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Pyle has dishonored himself and dishonored the platoon. I have tried to help him. But I have failed. I have failed because YOU have not helped me. YOU people, have not given Private Pyle the proper motivation! So, from now on, whenever Private Pyle fucks up, I will not punish him! I will punish all of YOU! And the way I see it ladies, you owe me for ONE JELLY DOUGHNUT! NOW, GET DOWN ON YOUR FACES!
I laugh through that part of the movie, because that’s my father – except that he’s Chief Petty Officer and not Drill Sergeant. I used to crack up at the Navy Company Commanders trying to be all scary, after living my whole life with my dad. My dad could, would, and did physically train me if that’s what it took.
I’m sorry to see recruits and potential recruits have trouble. I’ve seen a lot of young people make something of themselves in the service, because of the quality of the training and of the trainers. I hope there’s a way to make this work, too, because too many young people are not getting the real-life skills they need to function in society. The military, at least, does a good job in this area.
Bigurn on January 12, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Read the history of the Hitler Youth.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 5:48 PM
America’s fried chickens are coming home to roost…
Kafir on January 12, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I respect the honesty regarding women in the military NoDonkey. I don’t really agree with your basic premise, but I respect the honesty nonetheless.
dakine on January 12, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I can claim knowledge only for Marines. If a fat body wants in the Marines, his/her recruiters will work with him/her to lose that extra weight and gain muscles until he/she meets the standards. They have regular PT sessions during the week and on weekends. If they want in bad enough, they will perform. Otherwise, they wouldn’t last through fist phase in boot camp.
PrettyD_Vicious on January 12, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Same with the Army
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 6:01 PM
If you have a separate standards, the group which the lower one is specified for will live down to it.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 6:06 PM
I thought they already had the “Pork Chop Platoons” for the fattys too?
Wyznowski on January 12, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Please stop. It hurts to laugh this much.
Bnelson44, you have GOT to be kidding. Obama wants to cut our military off at the knees, not make it bigger, and my money says he’ll succeed so well the Carter era ‘shadow army’ will look good in comparison.
Besides; by now it’s widely known that “boot camp” means all kinds of physical suffering for weeks on end whilst being screamed at by a pottymouthed sadist…and the ‘reward’ for surviving THAT is to be shipped off to alternately endure extreme boredom and being shot at. All for low pay and sketchy health care, not to mention the fact that you can come home to be get ‘baby killer’ (and worse) yelled at you in many places.
Think the Ipod generation is going to sign up en masse for that? Hell, I cherish my freedom stem to stern and I’d rather play ‘chicken’ with a freight train than join the military.
Dark-Star on January 12, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I lost 30 lbs in boot camp back in 2000, before they started letting the recruits sleep 8 hours and wear sneakers. I was too damn tired to eat, and entered my “A” school at my smallest weight ever. I was an exception, though, as most of the women and men I was there with gained weight. Added to that, I lost about 10 pounds in the delayed entry program prior to going to boot camp – and that’s part of the reason why I went into the DEP (to lose weight). I guess things have changed, maybe they don’t have this program any more? My recruiters worked with me to get me into shape.
As to women in the military, there are a few bad apples (I’ve known one or two who got pregnant to avoid deployment), but we’re not worthless. As a desk jockey linguist/analyst, with a kid, I was more reliable than many of my male counterparts (coming to work with hangovers and such). I’ll betcha I was cheaper to employ, too, considering how much I’d make as a civilian doing the same job. The military needs its support personnel, and women have every right to want to defend their country, and can do so, even if not in combat roles.
Anna on January 12, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I went to Air Force basic in 1989–and was disappointed because it was too easy. Last November, the AF increased their boot camp from six to 8 1/2 weeks, which now includes a week long field training exercise and much more extensive weapons and NBC training. Looks like they’re on the right track.
And, bnelson44, my son told me there’s already a recruit in his flight that joined because Obama was elected and he wants to serve, so you could be right.
Special K on January 12, 2009 at 6:15 PM
I’ve always had a weight problem… when I enlisted in teh Army back in ’86, I barely made the weight cutoff. When I reported to Fort Bliss for Basic, I couldn’t do the required minimum number of push-ups and got sent to a special platoon (I don’t remember the name of the program). Several, though not all, of the people in that platoon also had weight issues.
The only training we did in that platoon was fitness training and marching. I think I was losing a couple of pounds a day, and in a couple of weeks I was able to do the required pushups and go to a regular Basic Training company, from which I graduated 8 weeks later.
If a couple extra weeks in a “fat camp” can get people ready for Basic, who would otherwise be rejected, then I think it might be well worth it.
malclave on January 12, 2009 at 6:17 PM
From his website:
Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Obama and Biden support plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marine Corps by 27,000 Marines. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 6:17 PM
I know someone too.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Gained 20 lbs at PI. Lost 25 lbs in ‘Nam.
Tom
marinetbryant on January 12, 2009 at 6:21 PM
Yeah, I forgot, the DC schools are about $15,000 per student…private schools are about $6,000 per student…DC schools have a 50% drop out rate, private schools probably less then 10%.
right2bright on January 12, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Amen. That would apply to many of the differently abled groups. The police and fire academies throughout the country have done away with size and fitness standards to accomodate women and those not normally able to deal with a tough situation. (Does anyone remember the show about the blind cop?)
I remember seeing a program about women firefighters, and they changed how unconcious victims were removed from a burning building. Women firefighters were told to drag their rescuee down the stairs by the feet. They defended this by saying it was better than being carried!!!
There are a lot of roles for women in the military, police and fire departments, but it is not a one size fits all deal.
Laura in Maryland on January 12, 2009 at 6:38 PM
Air Force basic training in 1982. 4 weeks. 99% text books and maybe 1% physical. We fired the M-16 for one day total. We ran once. We did an obstacle course once. Over the next 5 years I only had to run one time for one mile and they gave you 11 minutes to do it in. you can leisurely walk a mile in about 15.
I loved it though. We would get sent to backwater like a desert in Oman. When we arrived the Army engineers would be leaving. After building our brand new swimming pool at a temporary base. Good. Times.
Guardian on January 12, 2009 at 6:46 PM
LOL!
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Speaking of recruitment:
All Military Services Meet or Exceed December Recruiting Goals
WASHINGTON, Jan. 12, 2009 – December was a recruiting success for all active-duty and reserve-component U.S. military services, which all met or exceeded their goals, according to a Defense Department news release issued today.
– The Army signed 860 new active-duty soldiers, 115 percent of its target number of 750 enlistees.
– The Navy signed 2,306 new active-duty sailors, meeting its target number of enlistees for the month.
– The Marine Corps signed 2,392 new active-duty Marines, 113 percent of its target number of 2,116 enlistees.
– The Air Force signed 2,967 new active-duty airmen, meeting its target number of enlistees for the month.
“All services continue to meet or exceed their active-duty recruiting goals, thanks to the tremendous efforts of our recruiters, and those who continue to step up and serve,” Eileen Lainez, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said. “It speaks volumes for the dedication and loyalty of our nation and its volunteers.’
In addition, the active Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force all exceeded December retention goals.
All six Guard and Reserve forces also met or exceeded their December recruiting goals.
– The Army National Guard signed 6,607 new soldiers, 143 percent of its target of 4,625 enlistees.
– The Army Reserve signed 3,335 new soldiers, 112 percent of its goal of 2,973 enlistees.
– The Navy Reserve signed 538 new sailors, meeting its target number of enlistees for the month.
– The Marine Corps Reserve signed 582 new Marines, meeting its target number of enlistees for the month.
– The Air National Guard signed 803 new Air Guardsmen, 111 percent of its target number of enlistees.
– The Air Force Reserve signed 701 new airmen, 102 percent of its target number of enlistees.
December attrition losses in all reserve components were within acceptable limits, officials said.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=52652
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 6:58 PM
I spent the summer of 1984 running and marching the hills of Ft. Jackson, SC. I was 6’1″ 185# or so. I was considered a “fat body”. We became the road guards for all the marches. We road marched to and from the ranges. Since our barracks was on the opposite side of the post from the ranges, we ran home every day. I weighed 167 and 3/4 lbs. We have a guy in the platoon that lost over a hundred pounds. The US Army (or at least the old Army) has a way of melting pounds off people.
I do believe that more emphasis is put on physical fitness than actual leadership ability. Leadership ability (which I strongly believe one is borned with) is not a qualification for promotion. The really sad thing is that the real leaders only emerge in crisis situations. I’ve also seen PT “studs” fall out on field exercises.
Finally, the best artillery officer in the Continential Army had to be carried around in a carriage due to his wieght (Henry Knox of Ft. Knox fame).
Claimsratt on January 12, 2009 at 7:07 PM
I do apologize for the grammatical errors above. Long day of training and the gym.
Claimsratt on January 12, 2009 at 7:09 PM
The AF BMTS I remember from 1981 was six weeks long and we ran five days a week.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 7:15 PM
In 1989, we ran every day but only had one day shooting the M-16; we didn’t have to qualify or break it down and clean it, either. Most of our time was in classes and folding t-shirts into perfect six inch squares. My son, who is in his sixth week of basic, had to break it down and qualify and they also do the same on the M9 pistol. They’ve also added the fun CS gas chamber–he didn’t like that at all. And the week long FTX is called the BEAST for Basic Expeditionary Airman Skills Training. Plus they all get a week of self-defense (yes pugil sticks!), self and buddy care (first aid) and an introduction to SERE (survival-evasion-resistance-escape). Guess when the GWOT broke out, a lot of Zoomies realized they were not at all prepared for being in a war zone and many lost lives as a result. I for one am glad to see they have made it much harder–although my son is probably hating it right now. But he’s almost done!
Special K on January 12, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Is it me or is the funniest part of the clip done by Harold Ramis just mugging facial expressions to John Candy’s story. Stripes always makes me laugh.
boingo_tx on January 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM
My nephew recently went through Boot Camp (Marines). I went to the graduation. A very small percentage of the graduates had any noticeable body fat. My nephew was in really good shape prior to entering and actually put on a few pounds, though you couldn’t tell by looking at him.
Maybe the Marines are more selective. I know they do PT for recruits prior to enlistment, and PT in boot camp is rigorous. Boot Camp is also 13 weeks, so there is plenty of time to get into shape, and if you aren’t cutting it, you get sent down to a newer battalion and spend more time in Boot Camp.
I agree that the HS dropout rate is as much or more a problem than the obesity issue. Today’s military is more technology oriented and the recruits need to have a basic education under their belts or they will end up as a drag on the system.
Snidely Whiplash on January 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Yes, Boot camps have been softened up and dumbed down considerably in the past 20 years. 25 years ago, a fat ass in boot camp would be put on s pecial calorie reduced diet designed to get them to the proper weight weeks before graduation, and the physical regimen was far tougher in it’s demands then.
The Marine Corps still maintains a physical regimen in Boot camp that all other branches of the service should follow, but even they have softened up in the overall politically correct climate.
paulsur on January 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM
So far as I know, the Corps still does have PCP (Physical Conditioning Platoon) at both recruit depots, for fat bodies and non-hackers. Also known as “Pork Chop Platoon”…
quikstrike98 on January 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Basic training is very watered down now.
I went through OSUT back in the day, don’t know if they still do it. It’s basic training and AIT combined (for infantry).
They were experimenting with some low stress training brigades at the time. Basic training for the combat arms should be much more rigorous. I don’t think the drill sergeants can even cuss at you anymore, let alone smack you around.
I was pissed because I had to eat oatmeal and raisins for breakfast, heh. I always had problems with my weight because of weight-lifting. It was like banging my head against the wall. It’s muscle mass you freaking morons. Hell, I even lost a promotion because some jackass wrote down my wrong height during a PT test and I had to go on some damn program.
Or maybe it was arguing with my pinhead of a C.O. at the time…
reaganaut on January 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Marines still call it boot camp. Marines don’t have fat recruits. We send them to the Army where they call it basic.
When I was in we had a almost fat guy. He spent a few weeks in the motavational platoon. He made a fine marine after he slimmed down. The Marines still kick you out if you get fat.
Fat has no place in my Marine Corp.
kanda on January 12, 2009 at 8:01 PM
At the time I went to PI, I was 170 lbs and 6’0″. Not anywhere near fat. First morning of training, I loaded my tray up with waffles, bacon, sausage links, gravy, etc. Lots o’ syrup. Some scrambled eggs, too. I could put it away.
I promptly yacked all that good chow right back up again on my first tour of the obstacle course. Tasted much better going down than coming back up.
After that, I stuck to eating fruits and maybe a glass of milk prior to PT. Stuff that my stomach could break down quickly, and raise my blood sugar, in the hour I had before breakfast and PT. I do believe I learned some good dietary habits from that experience. Of course, now that I’m a civilian, I do like my Egg McMuffin…
quikstrike98 on January 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Platoon 3102, July 10 1991, certainly had a fatbody. Seriously. On initial Series Commander health and wellness inspection (us in our skivvies so the LT could document any bruises or whatever prior to training), our Series Commander almost had a stroke when he saw Recruit L—-. “WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!” Various comments about nausea, disgust, etc ensued, until the Lieutenant ordered the senior DI to “GET HIM OUT OF MY SIGHT, I’M GOING TO VOMIT!”
First Senior DI’s inspection, held in formation outside, one of the other platoon’s DI’s almost had us all falling out from laughing (I swear I almost got a hernia holding it in) riffing on Recruit L—- “Watch it wiggle, watch it jiggle….” DI’s really could make a living on the stand up comedy circuit.
The night before graduation, the DI’s had Recruit L—- walk down the squadbay with a pair of the cammie trousers he’d initially been issued when he arrived on the Island. They would have fit like a tent on him in the condition he was in on Graduation Day. I don’t know how he did it, but he kept up with us, never got dropped, never got sent to PCP, and came out of the experience probably 70 lbs lighter. We all were proud of his persistance and ultimate victory.
And yeah. Recruit L—- is proof that Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children take fatbodies. We just slim them down. PCP is evidence of that.
quikstrike98 on January 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM
You guys remind me of this cartoon Greyhawk put up a while back.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 8:17 PM
One more try. You guys remind me of this cartoon Greyhawk put up awhile back.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I think it’s more a lack of exercise after school–thank you, Wii–as well as too much junk food.
Why does government have to supervise fun & games?
jgapinoy on January 12, 2009 at 8:36 PM
In the Army, you don’t get promoted if you don’t pass the PT test. You get passed over enough times, you are out. I am not saying the Army is the Marines (heaven forbid), but they aren’t soft either.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 8:42 PM
ha ha I didn’t say we didn’t take them. I said we didn’t have fat recruits. Your reply proves my point as to why we don’t have them. Some of them who don’t try to lose weight like yours did or can’t lose weight are sent to Motivational Platoon but if they fail there they are released and allowed to go home or join another service.
Semper Fi!
kanda on January 12, 2009 at 8:43 PM
That’s the best Army in the world you are talking about. After all not everyone can be a Marine.
kanda on January 12, 2009 at 8:45 PM
How it all came about….
THE Marine Corps Version of Genesis
In the beginning was the word, and the word was God.
In the beginning was God, and all else was darkness and void, and without form. So God created the heavens and the Earth. He created the sun, and the moon, and the stars, so that light might pierce the darkness. The Earth, God divided between the land and the sea, and these he filled with many assorted creatures.
And the dark, salty, slimy creatures that inhabited the murky depths of the oceans, God called sailors. And He dressed them accordingly. They had little trousers that looked like bells at the bottom. And their shirts had cute little flaps on them to hide the hickeys on their necks. He also gave them long sideburns and shabby looking beards. God nicknamed them “squids” and banished them to a lifetime at sea, so that normal folks would not have to associate with them. To further identify these unloved creatures, He called them “petty” and “commodore” instead of titles worthy of red-blooded men.
And the flaky creatures of the land, God called soldiers. And with a twinkle in His eye, and a sense of humor that only He could have, God made their trousers too short and their covers too large. He also made their pockets oversized, so that they may warm their hands. And to adorn their uniforms, God gave them badges in quantities that only a dime store owner could appreciate. And He gave them emblems and crests… and all sorts of shiny things that glittered…and devices that dangled. (When you are God you tend to get carried away.)
On the 6th day, He thought about creating some air creatures for which he designed a Greyhound bus driver’s uniform, especially for Air Force flyboys. But He discarded the idea during the first week, and it was not until years later that some apostles resurrected this theme and established what we now know as the “Wild-Blue-Yonder Wonders.”
And on the 7th day, as you know, God rested.
But on the 8th day, at 0730, God looked down upon the earth and was not happy. No, God was not happy! So He thought about His labors, and in His divine wisdom God created a divine creature. And this He called Marine. And these Marines, who God had created in His own image, were to be of the air, and of the land, and of the sea. And these He gave many wonderful uniforms. Some were green; some were blue with red trim. And in the early days, some were even a beautiful tan. He gave them practical fighting uniforms, so that they could wage war against the forces of Satan and evil. He gave them service uniforms for their daily work and training. And He gave them evening and dress uniforms.. sharp and stylish, handsome things… so that they might promenade with their ladies on Saturday night and impress the hell out of everybody! He even gave them swords, so that people who were not impressed could be dealt with accordingly. And at the end of the 8th day, God looked down upon the earth and saw that it was good. But was God happy? No! God was still not happy! Because in the course of His labors, He had forgotten one thing: He did not have a Marine uniform for himself. He thought about it, and thought about it, and finally God satisfied Himself in knowing that, well… not everybody can be a Marine!
kanda on January 12, 2009 at 8:50 PM
I love them both and thank God for them both. They have different missions, and should.
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 9:00 PM
That’s funny!
BTW, when I try to share something like this to my tanker son, (although Army oriented of course), he admonishes me. He has been in combat and he knows he needs the support of all the forces to accomplish his job. He has a different perspective, one of survival and respect.
God bless them all!
bnelson44 on January 12, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Yes you have that right.
Tell your son he is in our hearts and prayers.
kanda on January 12, 2009 at 9:11 PM
There may be another reason for the increase in obesity. Since the mid 1950′s, we’ve been pushing breakfasts of cold cereal and milk on kids. My experience, as an obese person, is that this is not a filling breakfast. I can eat five bowls and I’ll only feel full because of the milk. It’s a pure carb breakfast, and it’s worse with the modern insistence on skim milk. A meal with no solid, no fat, and no protein won’t leave you sated; it will encourage you to eat way too much.
Fat is nine calories per gram and carbs five. But calorie per calorie, fat is about five times more satisfying. A pure fat diet is no good for you. But so, it seems, is a zero fat diet unless it’s all raw vegetables.
If this isn’t enough, there was a study a while ago (search on physorg.com) that strongly suggested that all it takes is five weeks of overeating and your appetite is messed up for life.
I know now that I have an appetite disorder. I’m learning to adjust to it. How much do I blame on cold cereal? Hard to say, but I know I would have been much better off without it.
njcommuter on January 12, 2009 at 9:23 PM
And roll in after the Signal Corps goes and jacks those nice maps that you get to roll in with?
You jarheads are just as funny as you always were.
leetpriest on January 12, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Darn right! Heh.
baldilocks on January 12, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Why all this infighting between Army and Marines? We’re all on the same side… … when it comes to making fun of the Navy.
chairborne on January 12, 2009 at 9:50 PM
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