Video: The Oscar Grant shooting
posted at 12:45 pm on January 9, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Three clips, the first a TV news report so you’ll have an idea of what happened and then two different close-ups via cell phone. The shooting comes at 1:15 of the second video and 2:55 of the third. In brief: It’s early New Year’s Day, there’s a fight on the Oakland subway, the transit cops come and pull a few men aside, one of whom is Grant. He ends up sitting against a wall, then two cops maneuver him face down, presumably to cuff him. There’s a slight struggle, whereupon one of them stands, pulls his pistol — and fires, sending his colleagues backpedaling in shock. Look closely in the second clip and you’ll see that even Mehserle, the cop who pulled the trigger, seems surprised. The theory is that he meant to grab his taser and wasn’t paying attention, but (a) the gun’s in his hand for a second or two before he shoots and (b) the other cop appears to still be holding Grant down. Wouldn’t that have transferred the zap from the taser into his body?
The bullet went through Grant’s back, bounced off the floor, and ended up in his lung. He died a few hours later. There have been demonstrations ever since, with Mehserle first being put on paid leave and then quitting the force on Wednesday. It happened in full view of dozens of people, obviously, so it’s hard to believe it was deliberate, but all I can come up with by way of explanation is that he had some sort of brain freeze.
You’re watching a man die here so please observe this, your official content warning. Exit question for our police readers: Have you ever absentmindedly reached for your taser and grabbed your pistol instead? If so, don’t they feel sufficiently different in your hand that you’d know instantly? Are the two weapons even on the same side of your belt?
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Few things more hypocrital than a lynching by a victim of racism.
Dubya Bee on January 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM
One more example of why only law enforcement should be allowed to have guns.
JellyToast on January 9, 2009 at 6:36 PM
The one thing I’ve learned from dozens of interactions with cops is that they are ALL disarmed by a civil, sober response with no hint of disdain for their work. It’s damn near a Jedi mind trick.
The last time I got pulled over, I pulled myself over when I saw the cop flip a U. I waited for him hands on the steering wheel. He approached and I said “you caught me.” I was speeding…but didn’t get a ticket.
It doesn’t always go like that but absolute honesty is very rare for cops to encounter even from law abiding citizens.
I drove a cab for work while attending USC. I drove in some scary hoods and had a lot of interactions with police officers.
The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 6:40 PM
One thing I learned in the Marine Corps was ALWAYS be polite to the man with the gun, especially if you don’t have one.
Sorry, it doesn’t help, especially with the egocentric, powerdrunk types you’re getting on forces these days. An old buddy of my Dad’s, country Sheriff’s deputy, got out of the force in the ’90s because he couldn’t stand working with the new hires, running around in high-and-tights (you ain’t Marines, boys), tactical response boots, all their cool SWAT gear purchased from US Cavalry, and their contests to see how many people they could lock up and harrass during their shifts. Big frikking joke to them, lots of yuks in the locker room. He quit.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 6:45 PM
St. Louis County, Missouri police threaten to arrest a teenager for refusing to discuss his personal travel plans. See link for story, video.
This kid mounted a webcam in his car, with uplink of recorded data to a remote sight (so the pigs couldn’t destroy the evidence–they wouldn’t do THAT now would they?)
Contributors to St Louis Police message forums, cops themselves, were making death threats against this kid. “To Serve and Protect”, indeed.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Heh. Maybe that Marine didn’t really throw a live puppy off the cliff either.
This jerk should be charged with murder. It is ridiculous that those entrusted with the public safety are held to *lesser* standards than the general population.
angelat0763 on January 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Missouri: Cop Website Contained Apparent Death Threat Against Video Vigilante
Thugs.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 7:02 PM
The last time I got a ticket, I stuck out my hand for a shake and said “In spite of this, thank you for your protection.” The guy, who had been stone-faced up to that point, smiled wide and said softly, “you’re welcome, ma’am. Have great day and slow down a little bit.” And we chuckled.
It was very illuminating.
baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 7:11 PM
CA: Cop Tells Suspect To Rise, Then Shoots And Kills Him.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8770396702332615729&q=chino
Welcome to the USSA.
angelat0763 on January 9, 2009 at 7:17 PM
My protection is in my glove box.
angelat0763 on January 9, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Yes! All the support for big government control irritates me, too!
angelat0763 on January 9, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Bing! Our first finalist … The Race Card.
Jaibones on January 9, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Tasers are never worn on the same side of a duty belt as one’s firearm. Tasers are set to be cross drawed.
They do feel different…..I understand that stress can lead to mistakes but this one in my opinion should never have happened. Training and muscle memory should take over. There really was no reason to have to tase the guy this should have been a hands on situation only.
azcop on January 9, 2009 at 7:27 PM
Here’s a video. Background: family with kids is travelling home from vacation through Tennessee. Dad is absentminded, leaves his wallet on top of car when he pulls out of gas station. Attendant calls 911 to ask cops to flag this guy down and tell him he left his wallet at the gas station. Dispatcher changes the callout to “these people committed armed robbery at the gas station”. Cops pull over family, put Dad, Mom, kids on the ground. Family keeps begging them to close the car doors to keep the dogs in the car. Cops IGNORE THEM. Dog runs out after cop (my dog would try to protect me, too. Cop blows dogs head off with shotgun. Watch til the end, see the good little guffaw all the cops share over dead dog, traumatized family and other dog.
Pigs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0T2X1dXcI
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 7:28 PM
Darn, that clip was edited. Last clip I viewed on this lasted til cops said, “Gee, maybe ma and pa with little ones DIDN’T knock over a gas station,” let the family go, and then have their little chuckle at wasting a family pet. Big laughs. Ha ha.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM
They don’t protect you. They collect money for the state, and they’ll show up in time to take a statement from you after you’ve been raped or assaulted, maybe draw a chalk outline around you and file a report.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Agreed. They aren’t there when we need protection. The internet is full of people who died waiting for help, and also full of people who protected themselves quite capably.
I was robbed once while I was at work, so when I got home the door was open. Having been socially conditioned not to go in lest the robber still be there and/or the crime scene be disturbed, I called the police. Seven Times. They never showed up. The next morning I called again, and they told me I could come down and fill out a report, but they weren’t actually going to investigate.
Pffft. Who needs ‘em?
angelat0763 on January 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Yeah, it’s really the cops’ fault that they listened to the dispatcher, and acted based on what they were told.
Try again.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Madison, seriously – google “puppycide.” Cops, apparently, love killing dogs. I wish I knew why, but this is a well documented culture of the police.
Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Question
That’s a stupid question… if you’ve ever handled a firearm; let alone have been trained to use one.
And you don’t absentmindedly shoot someone in the back while they are down on the ground. –A lot of cops are just not fit to wear the badge, nowadays.
Opinionnation on January 9, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Google “dog bites police officer” and you might understand why. It’s not a culture of the police, it’s a simple fact that not only are dogs often used as weapons by criminals, but dogs off the leash, loose dogs in a person’s yard, etc are a serious problem for police.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Apparently it’s against department regulations to arrive on scene, observe the situation, and exercising one’s gray matter make the assessment “The dispatcher was full of it, or we got the wrong people”.
Along with observing two dogs in the car….owners keep repeating, BEGGING the cops to close the doors to keep the dogs in, cops f***ing ignore them.
Low grade moron thugs who need to be pumping gas, not carrying firearms exercising the state’s monopoly of force.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM
A mature and accurate way to look at it…when you are a cop, and in the sh*t, sh*t happens…as it did in this case, is has to happen to someone, nothing in these situations is perfect…eventually something goes wrong.
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Gee, then maybe a cop with an IQ over 50 might think to lock the dogs in the car before they have the chance to attack?
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Yes, because when you are told by your primary source of information that the car you are pulling over may be full of armed criminals, you naturally approach with full expectation that the “dispatcher was full of it”. When your life may potentially be at stake, as soon as the people look like a normal, everyday family, you just throw caution to the wind.
You’re talking EXACTLY like someone who has never been in that line of work, nor had anyone you care about in that line of work.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 8:03 PM
And you don’t know me. I wasn’t in law enforcement, but I wore an ugly suit for the government, and was paid to carry a gun. I had the authority and capability to exercise deadly force more than once. The responsibility weighed on me, unlike apparently certain dolts in blue.
I used to give to Police charities. Over the years I realized that for the most part, they don’t deserve my money–and they’ll take it out of me in fines for various and sundry non-violent offenses they might nail me over in the coming years.
By the way–NO criminal record here, sorry you can’t tell me I’m a disgruntled criminal. I’ve never seen the inside of a jail (despite the pigs who wanted to lock me up for the crime of having my door knocked off its hinges by my criminal brother in law, because that would be easiest for them). I’m a law-abiding citizen who just wants our “heroes in blue” to leave me the Hell alone.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 8:08 PM
So if in battle someone is shot by friendly fire, the person who fires the shot should be charged with murder?
They are held to a higher standard, the general population doesn’t face these situations…nor do these situations go according to the book.
Just like if a kid jumps in front of a car you are driving, one could say you were not paying attention, or you were driving to fast…you would be begging for mercy stating that it was the kids fault, and others, like you are, would be saying you should have been paying attention.
Some things happen so fast, that the mind does not react, your instincts do…ever face someone in a hall and you both try to maneuver out of the way but react the same way, guess you are the rude one for not anticipating the others exact move.
The point is this, when confronted with chaos, things go wrong…it isn’t murder, is a terrible disastrous mistake. And in a society of 200 million people, and thousands of murders a year by thugs, not everything goes as you have planned.
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 8:08 PM
Sorry–I wasn’t quite accurate. I have seen a jailhouse before. When I took an old girlfriend over repeatedly to file complaints of her stalker ex husband violating his restraining order (she comes home to find him making a sandwich in the kitchen, won’t leave. Comes over and takes stuff out of her house…etc.)
Know what “Staunton’s Finest” did?
Filed the reports. That’s it. Just…filed…the…reports.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 8:13 PM
It was obviously an accident. What cop in their right mind would deliberately execute someone in plain view of an angry mob with camera phones. I don’t buy that this is some angry racist government agent.
Livefreeordie on January 9, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Sorry, that doesn’t cut the mustard. There are plenty of stories of cops shooting dogs that were hiding under tables, or weren’t dangerous at all (like poodles, etc). Cops are only supposed to draw their weapons if they believe their life is in danger, yet apparently cops have been murdering dogs with increasing frequency for years now.
Tell me why a cop would shoot a dog on a leash? Seriously, cops love shooting dogs. They love it.
Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Mine is everywhere.
baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Actually, I was angling for a ‘Simpsons’ goof….but SHINK sounds pretty cool….I’ll have to look out for one of those at the next gun show ;)
LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 8:23 PM
See. I knew you were smart.
LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Oh come on, though, Madison. Treating the KIDS like criminals too? I didn’t watch the clip b/c I don’t want to see what happens to the dog, but it seems to me that any decent cop would have handled the situation much differently. Get the parents out of the car and pat them down if you must, but the kids and the dogs should have been left out of it.
My brother was a police officer for years, so in general, I’m sympathetic to law enforcement, but the number of bad apples in the bunch is on the rise in recent years it seems, and unfortunately it reflects poorly on all cops.
You should come down here to the South where corruption in law enforcement is de rigeur. You’d get cynical real quick, too. That’s why we all have our own protection on the top shelf in our closets.
NoLeftTurn on January 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Look. Don’t make me be nice to you. :)
baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 8:38 PM
It was a bad situation and I feel sorry for everyone involved. From the looks of the third video the crowd was not helping things at all. It’s possible he was nervous, distracted, had a brainfreeze, or all of the above and grabbed the wrong weapon. Very unfortunate for that poor man on the ground. It did look like he was struggling with them some but, certainly was not a major threat for that many officers. Again, I think it is plausible he grabbed the wrong weapon or, he could have just lost it.
boomer on January 9, 2009 at 9:16 PM
There are two things that bother me about the 3rd video. First, at 0:11-0:14 it looks like the person in view is concealing a small handgun. It could be a cell phone, but play it through slowly. The carry suggests weapon. Second, go to 2:23 and you can see at least one of the seated men has his hands free. Go to 2:42 and all hands are down. Go to 2:46 and there is a hand of the far seated man potentially reaching for the officer’s gun. Now watch the 1st video again. The officer goes for the gun in a weird fashion like you would grab for a flashlight falling off your belt loop. I’m not making excuses here…it is odd though. There may be more here than meets the eye. It is too bad the key frames are blocked or semi-blocked.
baltowash on January 9, 2009 at 9:21 PM
It shouldn’t surprise you. The police are armed government agents, and since most conservatives are wary of overbearing government it then makes sense that police would make them nervous. It really is a tribute to American society that so many conservatives feel comfortable, and supportive of the police. I guarantee you that the average citizen of the USSR didn’t feel as comfortable with the police as we do, but we may get to walk a mile in their shoes before it’s all over.
DFCtomm on January 9, 2009 at 9:26 PM
It’s a shame that Senior Cpl. Norman Smith (Police Officer – Dallas,TX) and Grant (Oakland,CA) were killed and buried this week.
Zaire67 on January 9, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Dude…good eye…if you can freeze the third vid at 2:53(kinda difficult) you can clearly see the guys arm reaching for the gun and the officers hand reaching back to keep it in the holster. Watch the third vid from 2:44 to 2:55 and keep an eye on the cops waist…the kid behind him is grabbing at his gun…it is obvious.
equanimous on January 9, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Most certainly.
baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I think your experience with law enforcement depends on where you live and your attitude. I live in rural W TX. Teenager’s friend died in an accident near our home. Despondent, daughter takes a large amount of different pills she found. She was in a deep sleep when I found her. I called 911, turned on lights, left door open and went back to work with her expecting ambulance in 15 minutes or so. Wrong, within 3 minutes a State Trooper that lived down the road walked in to help me, then a sheriff’s deputy arrived and 10 minutes after the call two city police arrived escorting the ambulance with a crew of 3. As ambulance was pulling out to head to hospital, the deputy offered to drive me to hospital in event I was too shook up to drive.
Oleta on January 9, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Tens of thousands of cops in the USA, & we’ve got HAers who indict all of them over the actions of a stupid few.
jgapinoy on January 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM
seriously…watch the third vid from 2:44 to 2:55…the guy behind him sitting on the floor is grabbing at the officers gun…plain as day…
equanimous on January 9, 2009 at 10:10 PM
Perhaps because ALL of my own PERSONAL encounters with the police in the last decade, as a law abiding citizen, have proven them (of various departments and jurisdictions) to generally be nothing but revenue-collecting bullies who have neither the inclination nor sometimes the authority to actually render service, protection, or justice to the people who pay their checks.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 10:12 PM
oh just watched the second vid…i was wrong…awkward…
equanimous on January 9, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Well it is obvious that there are some real mental midgets blogging today. I’ve worked in law enforcement for 17 years. I wasn’t on that train platform but from viewing the recorded chaos and intimidation made towards the officers trying to restore order from gangsta types, this guy may have freaked out. That’s not excusing the act. Clearly the culture of Oakland and many other “yes we can” cities, is not a very pleasant place for you to walk safely down the street day or night. Ok we can take the cops off the street but they, humans with weaknesses too, are all you have from outright bedlam as witnessed on streets in Gaza and a modicum of civilization still hanging on by a thread in some of our cities.
wepeople on January 9, 2009 at 10:17 PM
There have already been killings in my neighborhood of North St Louis.
2 years ago, the power went out in St Louis. My neighborhood lost power for 6 days. I worked 4 to midnight at the time, so when I got home, I’d sit on my front stoop, drink a few beers, read a book, look at the stars, whatever to kill the time. No a/c meant staying in the house was something to be avoided.
My 3rd night of doing this, I realized I hadn’t seen a cop car between midnight and 4 on ANY of the nights I’d sat out on my porch. During a blackout. In a lower/middle middle class neighborhood. Not a single pig. Nowhere.
Which is why I have firearms in my house. “All that is standing beteween civilization and bedlam” in MY neighborhood is the promise that anyone who tries to enter my house won’t live to do it to anyone else. The cops sure as Hell aren’t there to protect me.
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 10:32 PM
uh, “free ramos and compean!” and whatever.
eh on January 9, 2009 at 10:35 PM
The local cops were, however, quite available to nail me one night on my way home from work for having my headlight out–which had gone out apparently on my drive home from work.
Always there to collect the fines. Gotta pay for the new cruisers somehow, don’t they?
quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM
He meant to get his taser.
Tasering a suspect with another officer holding him will not transfer the current to the officer. In fact,during taser certification you have to be shocked by the device. While being shocked you are held up by two officers.
Training issue. Mixing tasers and guns on the same belt is tricky business when stress kicks in. The brain goes into a phase where it is pulling on its reptilian brain. Muscle memory is key and is only accomplished through repetitive training. Muscle memory helps insure the proper response under stress. Just a theory but it can explain situations were cops react poorly. It usually boils down to training/stress.
Inzax on January 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM
Allahpundit,
I really wish you’d STFU about things you don’t know anything about. No, the other cops wouldn’t have gotten tased by proxy.
To answer your other questions:
No
Yes
Depends
thebronze on January 9, 2009 at 10:44 PM
This has probably already been mentioned, but I don’t have time to read all previous posts tonight. Regarding the comment in the main piece about the possibility of the taser charge passing through the subject into the officer holding him, it won’t.
q2600 on January 9, 2009 at 10:46 PM
This is certainly a tragedy, but the shooting was accidental. Look at the second video at 1:22 or so. The officers reaction after the gun goes off tells me instantly that he did not mean to shoot the person. All three cops are surprised, none more than the shooter. His head darts up, he says something, he looks down again. This doesn’t look like the behavior of a man that meant to shoot the guy.
That third video just pisses me off. Absolutely no respect for authority. They are yelling, mouthing off, the scene increases in tention. For the love of god, if you leave the cops alone to do their job all will be fine. Rodney King didn’t get it, nor do many of the other vermin scum that argue and get combative with law enforcement.
I feel horrible for both families involved here.
cannonball on January 9, 2009 at 10:47 PM
Look, cops are human beings. I don’t know if this cop meant to shoot this guy or not but it was a loud and nearly out of control situation with the “bystanders” yelling at them, the situation could have turned real bad any minute and I am sure that stress was a factor. Having said that there are good cops and bad ones. Just like there are good soldiers and bad ones. The good ones far outnumber the bad but it is just wrong to lump them all into the bad category because of a situation like this. I have two friends that are Houston cops. Both with 20+ years of service. Both have been shot in the line. One of them twice. I wonder how many of us would react in that situation.
conservnut on January 9, 2009 at 11:08 PM
A friend of mine in OPD said it’s only a matter of how much time he’s going to get; Involuntary Manslaughter or Murder 2.
liquidflorian on January 9, 2009 at 11:09 PM
I can’t be one, I don’t beat my wife.
TheSitRep on January 9, 2009 at 11:23 PM
Ex Oak-Town here and I can tell you this was bad from the start. Notice Fruitvale BART station, hood Oakland, 35th Avenue and E. 14th Street and there were four white officers trying to deal with the aftermath of a disturbance on the train.
To get a sense of what the officers were dealing with take a look again at the third video above. At the start of the video you will see one of the young adults cupping a weapon in his right hand. Ever seen anyone hold a cell phone that way?
Maybe it was a cell phone but the officers know half the kids on that platform own weapons or have access to one.
I don’t know if the officer was going for his taser or not and the kid certainly did not deserve to lose his life.
When you sense your life in in danger rational thought is blurred.
What I fault is the BART Police supervision for not having officers of color at the scene.
They should have had a buddy system, one black cop and one white cop assigned together, especially so close to a holiday weekend.
What a sad tragedy but what I will teach my kids from this is don’t resist and when the dust settles make your case.
FireBlogger on January 9, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Wow, lot’s of people out of their lane here.
Shouldn’t have happened, period.
Beyond that, I’m observing many people coming out of the woodwork to get their cop-hating on.
cryptojunkie on January 9, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Dude you are absolutely full of it. Pray tell, where in that video or transcript were death threats? Where?
darclon on January 9, 2009 at 11:49 PM
Dude, you’re ALMOST smart enough to be a cop. Did you view this link, which I posted, and which is accessible through the original story?
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1967.asp
quikstrike98 on January 10, 2009 at 12:02 AM
St. George PD is mentioned in the story–right next to Bellavilla, whose “Officer Friendly” both I and a coworker encountered a few years ago. He agreed, they are flaming a$$holes. Mike’s a vet too. No criminal record. Constant calls to jury duty. Harrassed and extorted by Bellavilla PD–a cab driver told me a few years ago that despite Bellavilla being the size of a postage stamp, and having almost no revenue save tickets…every year they have the money to purchase new cruisers. How’s that work out, huh? Girl I started seeing recently lives in that area, I mentioned I used to live around Bellavilla and she says out of the blue, “God the cops down there are A$$HOLES, aren’t they??!!”
Amazin’.
quikstrike98 on January 10, 2009 at 12:07 AM
If the cop executed this guy out of pure brutality, then he is obviously insane since he would be making the decision to ruin his own life and probably spend the rest of his life in prison. It’s either insanity or an accident.
He can’t be charged with murder unless he’s charged using a strict liability standard.
Buddahpundit on January 10, 2009 at 12:13 AM
If you expect cops to protect you without protecting yourself or protecting your own neighborhood, you suck. Arm yourself safely and be vigilant about knowing what’s up in your own surroundings.
But the allegation that they don’t protects us is BS. As often as I’ve been effed with by the cops I teach my kids to wave and say thanks to every officer and serviceman they encounter, unless they’re obviously busy.
When there was a string of robberies near my Volvo shop, whom do you think I called for extra drive-bys? Who took the crackhead I caught in the shop after hours away in cuffs when I called?
They can’t always protect but they certainly do help.
Incidentally, good protection from property theft when you have to be away is a dog paired with a life-size mannequin placed near a window. :)
The Race Card on January 10, 2009 at 12:17 AM
You got that right.
muggedbyreality on January 10, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Worst moment of that young dude’s life…both of them.
The Race Card on January 10, 2009 at 12:19 AM
I pay my taxes. I obey the law. I keep my peace. I report crimes–heck I report obstructions on interstates. I called the Highway Patrol for what appeared to be a Domestic Violence altercation on the side of the road last year. I don’t use illegal drugs. I served my country. None of that means I rate ANYTHING–except BASIC, STINKIN’, RESPECT FROM PUBLIC SERVANTS.
Instead…I’m driving at night, have headlight out. I’m pulled over. Fair ’nuff. I might expect a “High there, citizen! Might I see your license and registration? Why thank you! I’m just pulling you over to let you know your headlight is out, you better get that fixed!”
Nope. Fine and court summons. F*** him.
I’m new to the state and city. I don’t have a front tag on. Didn’t think state law required it. I’m pulled over. Instead of, “Hello there, citizen! May I see your license and registration? I pulled you over to tell you that you’re missing your front tag, might it have fallen off? Or what’s the issue?” Instead I get, “Where the hell is your front tag? You know I could take you in for this? I want to see it right f***ing now. You get that damned thing on or the next time I see you, you’re going to jail.” F*** you, officer.
I’m assaulted in my own home by a man who has a lengthy criminal record, who beats the hinges off my bedroom door. I make the MISTAKE of calling the cops, and they decide that for my troubles, *I* should go to jail. And lose my job, by the way (I must maintain a clean record for my employment.) Good thing I’ve always kept my nose clean, huh? Good thing I trusted the cops to handle things, huh?
I pay taxes dearly in my neighborhood, yet I see no police presence 6 nights running during a blackout.
So I ask you, just what the HELL have the cops done for me? Aside from draining my wallet?
quikstrike98 on January 10, 2009 at 12:23 AM
quickstrike98,
What’s “the rest of story”?
thebronze on January 10, 2009 at 2:20 AM
The “Rest of the story” is that my brother in law was abusing our dog. I was upstairs in my office when I heard her shriek. I went downstairs to see him beating her. I yelled at him to stop. He attacked me. I’m not stupid, this guy has at least 50 lbs on me, and in the 5 years I knew him, I’d seen more of his blood than mine, as he’d go out in town, get into a fight, and return home with bloody shirts, clothes, etc. So he attacks me, starts choking me. I break his hold, and head for the bedroom, locking door behind me, call 911. Meanwhile he’s screaming and beating door off it’s hinges down around me while I sit at the base of the door bracing it. Wife shows up about 5 minutes before cops do. Dear little brother is *this close* to going upstate next time he breaks the law. So cops show up, wife swears that she saw me attack Dear Little Bro. Cop laughs and says I’m going to jail. I attempt to explain my side, there’s no interest in it. Finally an older cop shows up, while I’m getting dressed (I was in my bathrobe since I worked an off shift), while the cops watch me. Humiliation to top it off. Older cop says that if I can find an alternate place to stay, I can go. With the clothes on my back. Younger cop was obviously disappointed. So I’m thrown out of my own house because I told a habitual criminal to stop beating my dog, and my wife decided to lie to the cops, and of course they believed that I would be STUPID enough to attack a very large nutball like my brother in law.
That’s the “rest of the story”. Happy?
quikstrike98 on January 10, 2009 at 2:55 AM
And as for the other incidents, as I noted earlier, I make it a particular point of self preservation on stops to keep hands in view, say yes sir, no sir, remain cooperative–and if I’m in violation of the law–well I probably didn’t know it. A polite correction will suffice, thank you. Treating me like a gangsta only increases my contempt for you.
quikstrike98 on January 10, 2009 at 2:59 AM
boy oh boy. the people here:
the authoritarian impulse of palin-worshippers is a friggin disgrace.
http://www.amazon.com/Conservatives-Without-Conscience-John-Dean/dp/0670037745
eh on January 10, 2009 at 6:10 AM
Quik, thin skinned much?
Cops aren’t on patrol to hand out respect. They’re out there to enforce the laws. I haven’t had to interact with a cop in almost 12 unless I was saying hello to them.
But I know friends that are eternal f***ups that can’t seem to drive through town without speeding, signaling a lane change or a turn, updating their safety inspection stickers and registration in a timely fashion, and every other month or so I get treated to a rant by one of these guys about how the friggin’ police in this town are ‘hasseling’ them.
And you sound just like one of them.
manofaiki on January 10, 2009 at 6:16 AM
the above post, it’s 12 YEARS. That’s right, 12 years since I ran a red light and got a ticket. Which I most certainly deserved.
manofaiki on January 10, 2009 at 6:17 AM
John Dean? You might have to reference yourself as being a vet a few hundred more times to pull yourself out of this one. Libs always feel the need to do that when they are trolling conservative sites. I guess it’s supposed to give them credibility.
Buddahpundit on January 10, 2009 at 7:51 AM
I work at a LE agency but am not a police officer. After I saw this I had the same thought about the taser/gun confusion. Our guys all wear their guns on the right and the tasers on the left with the butt forward. They also have a large florescent greed piece of tape on the taser handle. That was done for just this reason.
I don’t know what other agencies do.
schmuck281 on January 10, 2009 at 7:54 AM
But then, who would protect you from law enforcement?
I don’t understand why liberals love the state. I guess they like the idea that the state will provide for them from the cradle to the grave, but the very same state can also decide when to put you in such said grave.
Our founding fathers were not stupid, they didn’t go through our current public education system.
RobertInLexington on January 10, 2009 at 8:51 AM
The next time you fear a crime or suspect a threat don’t call the PD and see how things turn out. Cops put their life on the line every minute for all the citizens. It’s easy to appear to be a hard person on duty when you face the threat of extinction every day. Ask a combat vet. Always stay vigilant and prepared for the worst until proven otherwise.
kanda on January 10, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Interesting that you would bring up Ramos and Compean. There are similar mens rea issues here except that in that case you are arguing the incredible phenomenon that two leos suddenly decided that they were sick of their own lives and wanted to spend the rest of their lives in jail since they would have been expecting to have an unarmed dead body on their hands that they’d have no excuse for. There is also no evidence that the fleeing felon didn’t produce a gun, or something that appeared to be a gun such as pulling his wallet out of his pocket before wading through the river.
Buddahpundit on January 10, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Yep, that they do.
I wish they just had the courage of their convictions..
Next time their homes get broken into, car get’s stolen or loved one gets raped or murdered….call a junkie. Cops are idiots so why would they be calling them?
RobertInLexington on January 10, 2009 at 9:03 AM
therein lies the crux of the problem in our citizens … the police are not here to protect you and have no duty to do so. you can not sue them (govt) for failure to perform.
your protection is your responsibility.
cops are present to enforce the law, period. the firearm is for their own protection (not yours) and an aid in enforcing the law.
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html
want your liberty back? … tell the cops to go home and arm the citizens.
AZ_Redneck on January 10, 2009 at 9:29 AM
just a side note – Police firearms do not have safeties
What disgust me more than the shooting is the reaction to people protesting and rioting afterward
Donut on January 10, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Remember how that worked out in the old west. Everyone was armed and took the law into their own hands…those were the days. Those thrilling days of yesteryear. Tombstone…Boothill….Wytt Earp. Doc Holiday, The Lone Ranger.
kanda on January 10, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Works for me… When you think you may have your head blown off you tend to commit fewer crimes.
thomasaur on January 10, 2009 at 9:58 AM
That depends on the department and the duty weapon.
Regarding safeties in general, they are to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin in the event of a dropped weapon or similar physical strike to the back of the slide.
The operators’ holster, and central nervous system is what is supposed to prevent the trigger* from being pulled; i.e. keep your f’ing finger off the f’ing trigger until you want to f’ing fire the weapon.
*rifles/carbines on slings is different, they don’t have holsters
cryptojunkie on January 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Thanking the man for his protection does not indcate whether I protect myself or not. (As a matter of fact I do.)
And the crux of the problem of our citizens lies in the (in)ability to utilize basic logic. You might want to chack the premises on which your conclusions are based every now and then.
Amazing that you all want to nitpick basic human decency.
baldilocks on January 10, 2009 at 12:18 PM
chack=check
baldilocks on January 10, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Geez my typing is bad before coffee and after being irritated!
baldilocks on January 10, 2009 at 12:20 PM
quickstrike98,
So the “rest of the story” is that you let your POS criminal brother-in-law live with you, your wife lies about you and you don’t know your rights. And it’s the cops’ fault?
Riiight…
BTW, the cops didn’t watch you get dressed to humiliate you, they watched you get dressed so they could see if you were going for a weapon to harm them. But in your poor “victimized” mind, they did it to humiliate and harass you. Spare me your tale of woe…
thebronze on January 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM
AZ-redneck and Baldi, it’s true. The police have no legal duty to protect individual citizens. You are the only one responsible for protecting yourself.
thebronze on January 10, 2009 at 12:27 PM
FIFY
A lost concept.
cryptojunkie on January 10, 2009 at 12:32 PM
One less criminal knocking up unwed mothers and creating more bastards who continue the cycle. That cop probably saved more lives long-term than he took.
marklmail on January 10, 2009 at 12:52 PM
you have watched too many spaghetti westerns … or you have only been exposed to what liberals would like you to believe …
Robert Dykstra showed that the combined murder rate in Dodge City, Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita and Caldwell – all notorious , wide-open, cattle towns was miniscule by modern standards … less than two murders per year for all five towns combined. Crimes such as rape, burglary, and mugging, were virtually unknown.
The per capita murder rate in Aurora and Bodie – two notorious, so called gunslinging towns, was only 7% of the current murder rate in NYC.
Go read some history and find that the wild, wild west was rather tame … reason?
bad guys knew that they faced potential sudden death if they attempted to do wrong (i.e., rape, murder, assault, …) because darn near everyone was armed.
crime happens today because we, the citizens, permit it …
more info …
Roger D. McGrath, Gunfighters, Highwaymen and Vigilantes, 2nd Ed., (Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1987)
Robert A. Dykstra, The Cattle Town: A Social History of the Kansas Cattle Trading Centers (1968)
W. Eugene Hollon, Frontier Violence: Another Look (1974)
AZ_Redneck on January 10, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Lots of misinformation and extreme opinions expressed here so far.
First, a “side note” of my own: semi-autos do have a safety, whether carried by a policeman or not. However, firearms training and police dept policies dictate that the weapon is carried in the holster with the safety off.
Next: these are BART/transit cops, not city police. I have no clue as to the level of training, but the difference in experience levels is obvious. Real big-city cops are less likely to resort to drawing a weapon simply for effect, which I think is what happened here. Real cops know that a struggling suspect with no weapon is not a “deadly” threat… no police weapon required. Plus, real cops know that a weapon in a hand means fewer hands to help handcuff a suspect. And Taser-trained cops know that you don’t deploy a taser when the troops are rolling around on the ground with the suspect.
Then there’s the broad brush that many here seem to want to paint all police with. Get real. If all 300,000-plus cops in this country were trigger-happy thugs, then this sort of shooting would happen several times daily. It doesn’t. It’s rare. Period.
I agree that the badge-heavy out there shouldn’t be on the job. A badge and gun are not substitutes for self-confidence or a belief in one’s abilities to do the job. And I also cannot stand the air of superiority that some (especially some rookies) use as a mask to somehow keep the public at arm’s length. There’s certainly a need to separate one’s feelings from work sometimes, in order to function properly in a stressful situation. But these “superiority” cops think these attitudes are the same… they’re not.
As you may have guessed by now, I work for a police department in a large city. I have 30 years on and hope to retire in the next 5. I think I’m good at what I do, but I don’t do it for thanks or rewards or honors. I’ve always been very uncomfortable with those things. Yeah, I shot a guy years ago when he drew a gun and tried to kill me. (He survived, too.) I treat people with respect and don’t get all “official” in situations until it’s called for, like when someone challenges my authority when I know damn well I’m right. I don’t treat people like shit, even after a nasty encounter, because my blood pressure won’t handle it and it would be wrong to do that. Above all else, I want to do the right thing, no matter what.
In short, I’m no better or worse than any one else trying to any job. I’m not looking for your thanks, but I’m also not looking for someone to crap on me, either. I simply want to survive to retire, hopefully soon.
n0doz on January 10, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Is that sarcasm?
Johan Klaus on January 10, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Concealed carry laws prevent crime.
Johan Klaus on January 10, 2009 at 1:44 PM
I’m not disputing this. Sheesh.
baldilocks on January 10, 2009 at 1:54 PM
And I guess that we’re all presuming that the motto “To protect and to serve” is composed of, if you’ll pardon the expression, just words.
baldilocks on January 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM
You’re missing one part of the equation.
Yes the police have no duty to protect the INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN.
What’s their other job?
To arrest, cite, or warn those who have broken the law.
That’s not YOUR job as a citizen.
While in certain cases you may be able to legally affect a citizen’s arrest, it would only be until the LEO’s get there to take over.
Yeah send the cops home, arm the citizens, brilliant idea.
Justice is supposed to be impartial. That’s why arresting offenders is left up to neutral third parties, not armed citizens who may be extremly pissed off at the perpetrator.
manofaiki on January 10, 2009 at 2:13 PM
I assume that it was.
TooTall on January 10, 2009 at 2:50 PM
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