Hot Air Mobile
Home The Vault Gear About
Hot Air -- get your fill


Video: The Oscar Grant shooting

posted at 12:45 pm on January 9, 2009 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

Three clips, the first a TV news report so you’ll have an idea of what happened and then two different close-ups via cell phone. The shooting comes at 1:15 of the second video and 2:55 of the third. In brief: It’s early New Year’s Day, there’s a fight on the Oakland subway, the transit cops come and pull a few men aside, one of whom is Grant. He ends up sitting against a wall, then two cops maneuver him face down, presumably to cuff him. There’s a slight struggle, whereupon one of them stands, pulls his pistol — and fires, sending his colleagues backpedaling in shock. Look closely in the second clip and you’ll see that even Mehserle, the cop who pulled the trigger, seems surprised. The theory is that he meant to grab his taser and wasn’t paying attention, but (a) the gun’s in his hand for a second or two before he shoots and (b) the other cop appears to still be holding Grant down. Wouldn’t that have transferred the zap from the taser into his body?

The bullet went through Grant’s back, bounced off the floor, and ended up in his lung. He died a few hours later. There have been demonstrations ever since, with Mehserle first being put on paid leave and then quitting the force on Wednesday. It happened in full view of dozens of people, obviously, so it’s hard to believe it was deliberate, but all I can come up with by way of explanation is that he had some sort of brain freeze.

You’re watching a man die here so please observe this, your official content warning. Exit question for our police readers: Have you ever absentmindedly reached for your taser and grabbed your pistol instead? If so, don’t they feel sufficiently different in your hand that you’d know instantly? Are the two weapons even on the same side of your belt?


Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

reckless homocide and throws himself on the mercy of the court.

Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 3:07 PM

See Limey! I’m not the only one.

TheBlueSite on January 9, 2009 at 3:02 PM

No, I don’t think he thought it was his taser. I think it was poor trigger discipline. He even has to struggle with the gun to get it out of his holster.

Listen, it doesn’t matter what he thought. Try to understand … If you accidentally kill someone, you get punished.

Remember those words if you’re ever wondering why you’re being handcuffed just because they found a dead hooker in yoru room.

Learned that lesson the hard way, wow.

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM

The concept of “legal terminology” really escapes you, doesn’t it? Get off the toy pony that you think is a high horse.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:10 PM

WTF?
Every time you find a dead human, it’s a homicide by definition. You call the “homicide detectives” in to decide whether the homicide in question is, in fact, a suicide, or murder, or some form of accidental death, or (my favourite, maybe UK-specific?) “death by misadventure”.

No high horse.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM

earned that lesson the hard way, wow.

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM

Seriously? Dude She OD on you?

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:18 PM

(my favourite, maybe UK-specific?) “death by misadventure”.

Maybe UK specific?

Seriously, you think we have a category “death by misadventure” in the States? I highly doubt it.

“Death by misadventure” is so British just hearing the phrase makes me crave tea and crumpets.

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:19 PM

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:19 PM

LOL :)

We should have that category if we don’t already…it’s so perfectly descriptive.

Drunk guy takes piss off bridge over electric railway….death by misadventure.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Last year, for the first time in my life( been driving 25 + years) I was pulled over for ” doing 40 in a 35 mile zone” around 9:30 pm by a University police officer off campus. I honestly believed he pulled me over thinking I was a lot younger than my age of 45. I was driving home one of our company work trucks since I had to be a the job site at 6 AM, which was a common occurrence for most of us at work.

I was polite, respectful, and followed all the officers commands. He asked if he could search my vehicle, which I agreed to. Well apparently in the ash tray was an unsmoked “joint”, obviously left by one of the previous occupants.

I assured the officer that I’d never been arrested or even been pulled over before in my life ( which he radio checked), that I’d be glad to take the ticket and make sure that the company (which the truck was registered & insured by) found out who left this unexpected surprise in the ashtray (we have strict anti- smoking policy’s of tobacco in all our trucks). The officer did place me in cuffs as he searched the vehicle (after explaining to me that it was for his own safety)for any weapons or or other illegal things and said “if I don’t find anything, you’ve been quite forthcoming & cooperative and I will let you go with a simple warning”

At this point, a LAPD car pulled over, and the cop was quite nasty…When the University of Northridge cop explained the situation, the LAPD cop literally got upset I was being let go… He wanted this other officer to ticket me for multiple violations & even suggested impounding the vehicle or charging me “weapons violations” due to the screwdrivers in the cab of the truck. The original officer kept his word by issuing a warning on the “speeding” and didn’t ticket me for the joint.

The next day, one of our laborers took responsibility and was fired immediately, but to this day I am still shaken how that one officer talked to me & wanted to “screw” me over, especially suggesting weapons charges, against a guy who non confrontational & respectful and had had never been pulled over before in his life

I still respect law enforcement officers, but I know that bad apples are out there.

Son of Sam Kinison on January 9, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Every time you find a dead human, it’s a homicide by definition.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM

So every time you find a dead human, they were killed by another person? Interesting. Should make for a lot of lawsuits.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:25 PM

bagoh20 on January 9, 2009 at 3:05 PM

“Non-justifiable” classification covered both intentional and against policy as well as negligent discharge

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 3:25 PM

He asked if he could search my vehicle, which I agreed to

Why?

God why? XD Just say, “Sorry, I don’t really have time for that.”

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM

He asked if he could search my vehicle, which I agreed to

That was your first mistake. Practice saying “no” ;)

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:29 PM

God why? XD Just say, “Sorry, I don’t really have time for that.”

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM

AGreed. Police officers rely on people acquiescing to requests to search vehicles. You don’t have to allow the police to do anything for which they have to ask permission. An officer can search your vehicle without a warrant and without your permission if he/she can articulate a reasonbable suspicion that they will find contraband inside. So if they ask for permission it means they don’t have any reasonable suspicion and you’re perfectly within your rights to refuse.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Why?

God why? XD Just say, “Sorry, I don’t really have time for that.”

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM

I agree, but it’s really a judgment call. Belligerent cops I would deny, but in my experience on a few different college campuses, the police officers are often much more reasonable than metro, probably because they have to deal with a lot less violent crime and a lot more making sure drunk students get home safely. They’re also often much younger and probably less jaded.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Why?

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Careful. You don’t want someone to call you ‘obtuse’ for asking for clarification or to assume bad-faith motives just for asking. /s

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM

So every time you find a dead human, they were killed by another person? Interesting. Should make for a lot of lawsuits.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:25 PM

What? Are you on drugs?

When you find a dead human, it is a “homicide” because – wait for it – it’s a dead human. It is up to the “homicide detectives” to figure out the nature of the homicide….was it suicide (self death) or something else?

Stop watching CSI.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM

The asking permission to search the car thing is a lot like asking you to take a field sobriety test. You are under absolutely no obligation to take any kind of test at all unless you are already under arrest. But without the arrest, the officer can’t make you take the test, and without the test it’s very difficult for the officer to make the arrest…unless of course your car is wrapped around a tree and empty booze bottles are scattered aropund you at the time.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 3:33 PM

unless of course your car is wrapped around a tree and empty booze bottles are scattered aropund you at the time.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 3:33 PM

Which can happen to anyone

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Please find me a link where homicide is defined as “dead human”, because so far, I’m not having any luck.

Homicide is the killing of a human being due to the act or failure to act of another.

I’m not really interested in arguing the point further, but you just won’t get off that toy pony, and I know you have tendencies to refuse to admit being wrong.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM

You’re truly living in a dreamworld SouthernDem… accidents happen. If a court find that it was negligence then he should be punished. It’s also quite likely, though difficult to discern from the vid, that the victim was not heeding the officer’s commands — a dumb thing to do in every case.
max1 on January 9, 2009 at 2:53 PM

How am I in a dreamworld? Is it a pipe dream for me to expect a cop to not shoot someone handcuffed on the f***ing ground?
Good Lord people.

One more time for you: He was cuffed and on the ground.

SouthernDem on January 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM

A human being is dead who should not be. The person who made him dead, even if by accident, cannot be considered to have committed an “innocent” mistake. If it was not self-defense and it was not murder and the officer’s firearm was not defective and nobody interferred to cause the officer to fire inadvertently, then what in God’s name was it, if not negligent homicide? “Accident” doesn’t equal “innocent”. Can’t it still be a crime if the intent to do harm wasn’t there?

SKYFOX on January 9, 2009 at 3:38 PM

I fear cops. I never feel safe when I see one.

Hmmm. Generally, people who “fear” cops have a reason to, i.e. a guilty conscience.

uncivilized on January 9, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I’m no cop, but isn’t it common to tell a person to get on the ground and lie face down while another officer stands to the side with his gun drawn for backup??

And yes, humans are imperfect, so it’s reasonable when you’re filled with mind-altering adrenaline to mistaken a gun from something that has the same similar shape, size, etc.

TheBlueSite on January 9, 2009 at 3:13 PM

I guess all I can say is that it’s up for the jury to decide. I think it’s a hard sell.

Hmmm. Generally, people who “fear” cops have a reason to, i.e. a guilty conscience.

uncivilized on January 9, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I used to think the same thing. But then, too many occurrances of what Son of Sam Kinneson described left me thinking that there are plenty of cops out there who will intentionally screw you over. Beware of cops. They’re like dogs. Some are friendly, others aren’t. You approach a strange dog with caution just like you deal with a cop.

Also, I recommend NEVER TALKING TO COPS, EVER. There’s a good youtube video of that which explains why. Innocent people, like Son of Sam Kinneson, can be railroaded by the system even if the cops are perfect angels. It’s best to avoid placing yourself in a situation where that can happen to you by avoiding interactions with the cops at all times.

Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Actually, it is interesting to me to learn that it does indeed seem true that US legal terminology defines “homicide” as “death by another human”. So I concede that point. However, my original gripe was the incorrect use of “homicide” as a synonym for “murder”, which still stands.

Etymologically, however, the US legal use is incorrect. Does “infanticide” mean “death by baby”? Does “genocide” mean that an entire ethnic population shot somebody simultaneously? No. The word “homicide” has apparently been misused for so long that a totally incorrect semantic has become accepted as legal terminology. Oof.

It seems that the US legal system needs to take some remedial english classes.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

That’s why we continue to be two countries separated by a common language.

Cheers.

connertown on January 9, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Does “infanticide” mean “death by baby”? Does “genocide” mean that an entire ethnic population shot somebody simultaneously?

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

No, the reverse. You’re confusing the syntax. Infanticide means the killing of an infant by another person. Genocide means the killing of an entire group by another person, or, more accurately, an entity. Homicide means the killing of a human by a person. The suffix -cide is the part that means “killed by another person”. The prefix determines who was killed.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:51 PM

On topic: in the Basic Pistol course I took some weeks ago, trigger discipline is hammered hard. One can imagine that it is even more so in police academies. The guy screwed up.

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 2:32 PM

I have spent very much time at the gun range, including my time in the military. I have seen many people “accidentally” discharge weapons. That is why everyone is instructed to always point their weapon downrange and keep their finger off of the trigger until ready to fire.

Johan Klaus on January 9, 2009 at 3:51 PM

I think it’s important to remember that police officers serve two roles. On the one hand they are the law enforcers and people are right to make sure that officers are acting appropriately when in that role. And it’s important that people educate themselves as to their rights and obligations when dealing with the police.

On the other hand, police are also the protectors who will selflessly risk their lives to save and rescue people. You never hear anyone yelling about a**hole cops when they’re saving someone from a fire or a burning car, or rescuing hostages from a violent situation…then again you rarely hear people talking about the heroism of police officers much at all.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Read the youtube comments section for some real fun.

Metro on January 9, 2009 at 3:56 PM

The suffix -cide is the part that means “killed by another person”. The prefix determines who was killed.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 3:51 PM

I see what you mean. I understand “cide” to be etymologically derived from “death” (or literally “cut”), but that this does not implicitly state that another human was involved. Maybe it’s a UK/US thing.

To me, looking at a dead body and stating “it’s a homicide alright” is about as meaningful as looking at a discarded shoe and stating “it’s footwear alright” ;)

Either way, “homicide” is not synonymous with “murder”. Unjustified, premeditated homicide is murder. The qualifiers are important.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Either way, “homicide” is not synonymous with “murder”. Unjustified, premeditated homicide is murder. The qualifiers are important.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:58 PM

That bothers me as well. Many miss the fact that murder requires intent, and so the use often gets mangled.

Upon first, uneducated viewing of this tape, I don’t see intent. I see an adrenalin-pumping officer, with probably inadequate training, losing control of the situation. It doesn’t make it right, and he should be punished. There’s just no malice that I can find.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 4:06 PM

There are degrees of murder, all of which are homicides and all of which require criminal intent. Then there are degrees of manslaughter, all of which are homicides but only some of which require criminal intent. From what I understand of this incident I think it’s a clear case of manslaughter (a homicide) but caused by negligence rather than specific criminal intent.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

There’s just no malice that I can find.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Right. I’m not seeing the malice here.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

To revert to geek-speek for a while, I would define “homicide” as an abstract from which all other legal categories are derived.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:12 PM

I’d call it negligent – I agree with the “poor trigger discipline” assessment, but regardless, the issue is there.

Shootings in the line of duty are always looked at from the point of view of the officer at the time of the shooting, not a third-person view of the entire situation. It makes sense, since the decision to shoot someone or not is only based on the information and situation that is available to the officer doing the shooting – A good example of it is if an officer shoots a teenager carrying a toy gun. – It doesn’t matter that the gun turns out later to be harmless, it matters that the officer had a reason, based on what he saw at the time he shot, to fear for his life.

Given that, though, based only on the video, I’d find it hard to justify even drawing his weapon in the first place. There is a bunch of chaos going on around them, but nothing more than you normally get when making an arrest in that type of situation. None of the other officers are concerned enough to even rest hands on their holsters, and yet he drew and (accidentally?) shot his weapon.

I won’t agree with the department’s claim that the video is ‘inconclusive’ since the video certainly leads to a pretty solid conclusion in my mind – that the guy was shot in the back by an officer while making an arrest, and that no evidence of that level danger to the officer or public appears in the video.

RustMouse on January 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM

He asked if he could search my vehicle, which I agreed to

That was your first mistake. Practice saying “no” ;)
LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 3:29 PM

In the example that he gave, cooperating with the police officers resulted in a guilty person being (at least partially) punished. And that’s a good thing.

The problem with moral absolutism (i.e., liberalism) is that it never considers the effect of any policy on the world in general; the liberal is solely concerned with a given policy’s effect on his own self-esteem – which is always considered to be good.

logis on January 9, 2009 at 4:16 PM

And let’s not forget the inevitable (unless justification for the shoot is revealed) civil suit which will ruin this cop and his family, if any.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:16 PM

I would define “homicide” as an abstract from which all other legal categories are derived.

Exactly. Al homicide means is that a death occurred at the hands of another, regardless of the reason. Homicide may criminal, it may be negligent, it is sometimes even justified.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:18 PM

The problem with moral absolutism (i.e., liberalism)

Moral relativism?

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Homicide may criminal, it may be negligent, it is sometimes even justified.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:18 PM

But it is never funky.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Moral relativism?

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Relative moralism?

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

But it is never funky.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

I dunno, I’ve seen some pretty funky suicides

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:22 PM

and some pretty funky accidental deaths. You’d be amazed at the bizarre ways people wind up dying.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Never an officer, but was tactical military. I can attest to the adrenaline rush; it happens in simple training events and I have no doubt that fatigue and adrenaline were involved here.

Training is also a factor. How much time do our civilian police spend on weapons training, including actual firing? My guess is that it is pretty minimal, from casual conversations with officer friends.

All in all, a tragedy. Is it more a tragedy than the hundreds of murders that go unprotested? Where is the great hue and cry for that? Or is the function of the outrage to forward a generalized derogation of police work, and not really sorrow for the victim?

Bigurn on January 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

I dunno, I’ve seen some pretty funky suicides

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:22 PM

I was driving over a bridge one day. The car in front of me stops. The driver gets out, scales the fence in about 3 seconds flat and jumps like Spider-Man over the side, off the bridge to his death. He left a passenger in the car.

The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM

I dunno, I’ve seen some pretty funky suicides

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Oof. No kidding.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM

You’d be amazed at the bizarre ways people wind up dying.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM

You know the gods-honest truth? I really wouldn’t.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM

He left a passenger in the car.

The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM

He who smelt it dealt it

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM

The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Maybe he was afraid for his life because a black guy was driving behind him.

The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM

Maybe he was afraid for his life because a black guy was driving behind him.

The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM

Only if you have those spinning shiny wheels ;)

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Bigurn on January 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

In my experience as a police academy commander for a while during my career, weapons training is very extensive, at least in large city police departments. Many many hours of theory and practice in the range from basic shooting principles to high stress simulations and live fire exercises. We estimated that our new officers fired at least 5,000 rounds before graduation and spent several hours in forearms simulators. Couple that with quarterly qualifying and in-service firearms training and it adds up to a lot.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

forearms simulators=firearms simulators!

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:32 PM

We reserved the forearms simulators for Popeye training

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Good Lord! Listen to that crowd! They sound like inmates in an asylum and look like gangsters. The crowd even starts moving threateningly towards the cops before anything happens. My first thought was why stop at one. Open up on the whole crowd and save us a bunch of tax dollars and probably lower crime. Wrong I know but the folks in that crowd were downright ugly.

Having said that I think the cop pulled his weapon to cover the suspect that was struggling with officers and he accidentally shot him. It’s readily apparent from the reaction of all the cops including the shooter that what happened was horribly unexpected. It was a tragic accident and that’s all. The cop f**ked up bad.

Unfortunately I don’t have tons of sympathy for the “victim”. He wasn’t some innocent dude sitting there minding his own business. The cops were working him for a reason and he escalated the use of force by resisting. By doing so he put himself in an ever more dangerous situation. I kind of look at the guy as a Darwin Award winner. He made the mistake of spinning the Russian Roulette wheel of odds that you will be the one guy in a million that gets accidentally shot by a cop.

Guardian on January 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

We reserved the forearms simulators for Popeye training

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

LOL I ams what I ams

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

Guardian on January 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

That first paragraph isn’t going to go down very well.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Yeah, I know. I’m bad.

Guardian on January 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

Long rant, fastforward to the last paragraphs if you just want to know why the officer’s taser excuse is so pathetic. Even if it proves to be true, it’s still no excuse; the mistake was completely avoidable.
 
But first, a word on the sillyness….
 

It surprises me that there are so many “anti-cop” people on HotAir…

 
What surprises me is that such intelligent people can totally lose sight of an issue and allow themselves to be hijacked by all the BS. You’re all blinded by your insistence to turn everything into a political issue of red or blue. On the one hand, you’ve got the “I don’t trust cops” people that use the actions of a few morons to judge an entire profession that has seen hundreds of thousands of honorable men and women wear the badge throughout history. Then you’ve got the people that want to prove how intolerant of crime they are, they like to believe that there’s no such thing as a bad cop; everyone’s guilty, and clearly, cops don’t make mistakes; every officer got a 1600 on their SATs and whatever decisions he or she had to make at the time, it was a logical, rational, well-thought out process that took careful deliberation and had nothing to do with adrenaline. Frankly, you’re all nuts.
 
First, if any of you want to say that this is evidence of racism in the police department, then you, yourself, are guilty of stereotyping, and you’re no better than those you accuse of being racist. Second, this is more about the proper handling of weapons than it is about racist and corrupt police. Third, you’ll be hard pressed to find an officer in this country that hasn’t encountered at least one or two fellow officers in their lifetimes that they knew probably shouldn’t be wearing the badge. These guys are human, and yes, it’s no secret, some of them are great at being total assholes, but lets not pretend that being an asshole is exclusive to the Police. My neighbor’s a real douchebag, that doesn’t mean that all CPA’s are douchebags. Cops face the same stresses, the same bills, the same problems that you do, only when they go out every day, they don’t know if they’re coming home. In so many situations, there’s a level of adrenaline with the job that you likely can’t understand because you won’t experience anything near it with most civilian jobs. But it is how one reacts in those circumstances that is critical to ensuring that lives are not lost; as any officer or combat vet will tell you, when it hits the fan, when your heart is beating through your chest and the protective instincts have kicked in, it takes a great deal of strength and experience to keep a level head and remember your training. A cop has the same fearful, protective instincts that you do, the hope is that he’s been provided with the training necessary to diffuse the situation safely. Now there isn’t an officer on the planet that doesn’t sympathize with an accidental shooting, especially in a volatile situation that could have turned at any moment…. but there are very few cops that don’t get angry and shake their heads in dissappointment when they see a homicide that could have been avoided if the officer had adequate, comprehensive weapons (not just firearms) training.
 
A man lost his life. He didn’t deserve to die, but he did. Take a moment to think about that before you self-righteous nitwits want to start preaching that he should have known better. This could have happened to anyone, a drunk at an NFL game, in a crowded bar or even a high school gym. The officers responded to a fight, not some shootout in the street. This is an absolute tragedy. Any Police Officer worth his soul is ashamed when something like this happens. Absolutely ashamed. I sympathize with the officer, but he screwed up bigtime. This kid didn’t deserve to die. This could have been your son, your brother, your father.
 
This has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, or whether you’re tough on crime/soft on crime. A man lost his life here, and no matter which way you slice it, it’s clear that this officer didn’t follow protocol or else this would not have happened. Was this an accident in the heat of the moment? I’m inclined to believe that it was and he didn’t mean to use his pistol… but is it excusable? Absolutely not. He’s done, he’s not qualified to handle a firearm, or a taser for that matter. Find another profession. Any officer reading this knows that when you draw your weapon, that finger isn’t on that trigger until your’re certain that you need to fire your weapon and kill whatever is on the other end of the barrel. That’s right: Kill. When you shoot, you do so with the expectation that you will end the life of what you’re shooting at. That’s why there are rules regarding the use of deadly force. You definitely don’t walk around with a round in the chamber unless you have a proper safety mechanism. That round didn’t leave the magazine and hop into the chamber all by itself, it got there because this officer understandably doesn’t want to take the extra step of chambering a round when he needs to shoot. Those are precious seconds that can save your life when caught by surprise – and there’s nothing wrong with that, so long as you to take precautions to prevent an accidental discharge. Whether that’s using a pistol with a proper safety mechanism that cannot be accidentally disengaged, a double action trigger, or whether you’re willing to spend the extra $200 on a pistol with a decocking lever. Of course, if you’re too inept to figure out which side of the belt you put your taser on, there’s not much hope for you. One’s lethal, one’s not, I understand that that the design of the Glock happens to resemble your taser, but I know for certain that the safety mechanisms on the taser doesn’t match any pistol, and if you can’t figure out the difference when the walls are coming down around you, find another profession. I have no sympathy for mistakes that could have been avoided with effective training.
 
And on the question of “should he have noticed the difference between how a taser felt in his hand and a pistol?” The answer is absolutely. This isn’t the first time he handled his weapon. If you have firearms experience, you’re already aware of how different each pistol can feel in your hand. Unless he was borrowing someone else’s weapon for the day, he’s clearly not qualified enough to carry one. In total darkness (or say, perhaps, with your eyes on a hostile target), the officer can immediately tell what is in his hand if by nothing else than noting the grip. If this was a 9mm, then it’s doubtful that the officer had anything less than 15 rounds in it. That’s a weight, a balance, and a bulk, that’s unmistakable to anyone that carries the same firearm day in and day out. You notice the weight, and considering the rounds are stored in a magazine inside your grip, you can feel the bulk. With a .45 caliber pistol, the rounds are bigger and are stacked differently, thus, you have an entirely different feel on the grips. Two different 9mms by the same manufacturer will feel different -even pistols of the same model can have aftermarket grips, accessories, sights, etc. Unless the pistols are perfectly identical, it’s hard not to notice a difference in the way they feel in your hands. The same most certainly goes for a taser. I understand the officer’s excuse and I sympathize, I just think it’s pathetic. No one wearing the badge should be inexperienced enough with his or her weapons not to be able to tell the difference between a firearm and and a taser. You shoot and carry what you’re trained and comfortable with, and if you can’t figure out that you’ve got your pistol in your hand and not your taser, clearly you haven’t trained enough with your taser to be the least bit familiar as to how it feels, and therefore, you shouldn’t have it on your hip in the first place.
 
Someone needs to explain to me the logic behind all this extensive firearms training, but this willingness to just hand out tasers with little to no education on their proper handling. If you carry both, yet aren’t at the range with both on your hips, practicing drawing both weapons in different scenarios, then quite frankly, you shouldn’t be carrying both weapons. When an officer is practicing drawing his weapon from the holster and firing at a range, instructors go so far as to instruct the officer to make sure he snaps the weapon into the holster between rounds, since this is likely the way in which he would draw his weapon in a real life conflict. Those that skip this critical step are prone to fumbling when the adrenaline is going, when every second counts. You prepare for so many scenarios with firearms, but yet we just hand these guys tasers, show them a video, and they pop it on their belts like it’s a can of mace. It’s no wonder he had his finger on the trigger, he assumed he had a non-lethal weapon but had likely handled it so infrequently that no alarms went off when he had this thing in his hand that felt the same as his pistol. If had he practiced training with both, alternating drawing different weapons, then it would be nearly impossible not to able to immediately notice the distinction. Again, I sympathize, but the officer is not excused. Civilian with no weapons training make these mistakes, not trained Police Officers. Find another line of work.

Medicated on January 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

He seemed completely shocked to have shot him. It’s hard to gauge what caused it. Best case is the last embedded video that has everyone yelling and screaming and dudes creeping up on the officers while they’re trying to control the situation. It sounds like what you’d expect San Quinton to sound like when officers come to check cells. Very chaotic and disorienting plus having people with cameras all up in your face yelling at you, not sure if they’re gonna come up behind you, I think the guy just panicked when Oscar wouldn’t settle down. Doesn’t excuse it at all but I don’t think it was malicious or intentional. Probably why he resigned so quickly.

Sultry Beauty on January 9, 2009 at 4:40 PM

Another dead mamma’s-boy thug.

/yawn

thareb on January 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM

Probably why he resigned so quickly.

Sultry Beauty on January 9, 2009 at 4:40 PM

Doesn’t that mean he loses the departments legal resources? I’d at least get the taxpayer to foot the bill.

When the civil suit hits, he’s toast. I wish that weren’t the case, but that’s the way it is.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:44 PM

I was once in a pizza store when a crew-cut steroid monster walked in with a muscle shirt. He was a cop on the local force. It said “COPS. WORLD’S LARGEST STREET GANG”

keep the change on January 9, 2009 at 4:45 PM

Doesn’t that mean he loses the departments legal resources? I’d at least get the taxpayer to foot the bill

As long as he was acting within the scope of his employment at the time of the shooting, he should still be covered by the department’s legal resources. It’s a call the department makes and the union will push the department to cover him. Besides, the real suit won’t be against the officer, who has no money anyway, but against the department and the BART system for negligent training.

Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 4:49 PM

TheBlueSite on January 9, 2009 at 3:13 PM

If someone hit a relative of yours while driving a vehicle and killed them, there is a chance that they are going to jail. Even though it was an accident and they didn’t even know your relative. This young officer has an even better chance of seeing jail time because to the training received for just these instances. It is sad because a gentleman who ran into me and fled the scene found passed out in his driveway is unlikely to see any jail time even though he is a repeat hit & run offender. And guess why? Because most everyone on the jury has had a drink or two and gotten behind the wheel. So they will probably let the guy go because of the “there but for the grace of God, go I” mentality. Life isn’t always fair but this young man is going to have to pay for the death of the other.

Cindy Munford on January 9, 2009 at 4:49 PM

That first paragraph isn’t going to go down very well.

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Yeah, I know. I’m bad.

Guardian on January 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

Internet badasses! Hide yourselves!

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 4:52 PM

First, if any of you want to say that this is evidence of racism in the police department, then you, yourself, are guilty of stereotyping, and you’re no better than those you accuse of being racist. Second, this is more about the proper handling of weapons than it is about racist and corrupt police.

I don’t think anyone said this except for Thacker. Otherwise it was a flurry of unwarranted assumptions and high-horse whining at being questioned.

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM

You’re truly living in a dreamworld SouthernDem… accidents happen. If a court find that it was negligence then he should be punished. It’s also quite likely, though difficult to discern from the vid, that the victim was not heeding the officer’s commands — a dumb thing to do in every case.
max1 on January 9, 2009 at 2:53 PM
How am I in a dreamworld? Is it a pipe dream for me to expect a cop to not shoot someone handcuffed on the f***ing ground?
Good Lord people.

One more time for you: He was cuffed and on the ground.

SouthernDem on January 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Oh, you saw for a fact that the cuffs were locked did you? Big difference between the act of trying to cuff a squirming perp and administering to one that has been succesfully shackled.

max1 on January 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Somehow I don’t see myself in danger of being shot like this. I doubt that I would be a member of this particular group of people that the police were dealing with at the time. A tragic death, yes and the officer will suffer for it but what were these guys doing?

sabbott on January 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Medicated on January 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Lenghty but worth it. Thanks for taking the time.

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

He who smelt it dealt it

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM

I was compelled to laugh inappropriately

DarkCurrent on January 9, 2009 at 4:57 PM

what were these guys doing?

sabbott on January 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

behaving like a mob of thugs. and breaking probably more than a few laws, including, oh, public intoxication, menacing, etc. etc. etc.

max1 on January 9, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Mistake. I didn’t (won’t) watch the video, but I’m guessing it was a tragic mistake made in the crucible of the moment.

[..] but to this day I am still shaken how that one officer talked to me & wanted to “screw” me over [..]

I still respect law enforcement officers, but I know that bad apples are out there.

Son of Sam Kinison on January 9, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Cops are good people in the aggregate, but can be vicious, corrupt and sadistic in the particular. They are made neither demons nor saints for wearing the uniform.

I think the point that the anti-cop people here are making is that 100,000 good cops don’t make up for the 15 corrupt ones that police your precinct. Right or wrong, it’s a pretty rational conclusion to come to. Corruption happens in pockets and spreads like a virus, usually in densely urban precincts.

The cops in the surrounding suburbs of my city are good folks, work hard and deserve the respect they get. The city cops are not. They are corrupt as the day is long and take pleasure in inflicting pain. I imagine this is pretty common in most medium-to-large cities.

spmat on January 9, 2009 at 5:03 PM

As a member of Law Enforcement, I’m shocked by this video. It galvanizes me against complacency and sharpens my situational awareness.

I carry an ASP collapsable baton. Military cops don’t use TASERs.

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

However, Maybe they should modify the device to be wrist-mounted (like a webshooter) to prevent this in the future?

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

It’s best to avoid placing yourself in a situation where that can happen to you by avoiding interactions with the cops at all times.

Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

The best way to avoid a problem is to not break the law.
That being said, and this is not an anecdote, the majority of police officers in Houston,Texas only go to the gun range once a year. Imagine being in the situation that these officers were in if they had not used a weapon in a year. It is a wonder these things do not happen more often.

Johan Klaus on January 9, 2009 at 5:07 PM

I carry an ASP collapsable baton.

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Isn’t that like a club?

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 5:09 PM

However, Maybe they should modify the device to be wrist-mounted (like a webshooter) to prevent this in the future?

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Maybe they could have frickin lasers mounted on their frickin heads

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 5:10 PM

That guy sure didn’t seem to have earned getting shot in the back, execution style.

Having said that, my first impression of the videos (all three) was the sense of total chaos, especially in the audio – yelling, screaming, cursing punks. I always knew I hated Oakland, but now I know why. It looks sort of like hell.

I wouldn’t particularly blame a cop for coming into a gang fight in a public train station with his Glock locked and cocked, and firing at the first person who didn’t do what he said. But this kid was well under their control, and seemed to pose no threat whatsoever.

This is an unjustifiable homicide. I wonder why he did that?

Jaibones on January 9, 2009 at 5:10 PM

It’s as if cops are trained to be inherently scared of the person on the other side of their shield.

Obviously this guy had a little mental mix up, but even if he was reaching for his taser, he didn’t need it. And would still make a case for excessive force. Excessive being that thing you use out of excess.

I mean the 210lbs bald white cop has his knee on the guys back, and there’s one guy on his feet. What more do you need? A taser as well?

PresidenToor on January 9, 2009 at 5:11 PM

I carry an ASP collapsable baton.

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Isn’t that like a club?

LimeyGeek on January 9, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Yes. It makes a distinct metal SHINK sound when it’s snapped out for business.

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:11 PM

You hear the verminous girl that keeps yelling “they shot him, they shot him!”? She finally decides that this is a good thing, and yells “die, Mother-******!” and laughs.

Nice girl. California.

Jaibones on January 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM

As a member of Law Enforcement, I’m shocked by this video. It galvanizes me against complacency and sharpens my situational awareness.

Black Adam on January 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Good attitude. Let’s be careful out there.

Jaibones on January 9, 2009 at 5:15 PM

It’s as if cops are trained to be inherently scared of the person on the other side of their shield.

Obviously this guy had a little mental mix up, but even if he was reaching for his taser, he didn’t need it. And would still make a case for excessive force. Excessive being that thing you use out of excess.

I mean the 210lbs bald white cop has his knee on the guys back, and there’s one guy on his feet. What more do you need? A taser as well?

PresidenToor on January 9, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Yet another poster who seemingly has NO FREAKIN’ IDEA of how the real world works. Violence IS NOT LIKE IT IS ON CAGNEY AND LACEY! and YES, a small dude with two big guys on his back CAN CAUSE INJURY OR WORSE!

max1 on January 9, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Medicated on January 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Great post. Normally I don’t read online books, but baldilocks recommendation had me back up and take a look.

DarkCurrent on January 9, 2009 at 5:20 PM

I think “Medicated” is on the mark.

Someone needs to explain to me the logic behind all this extensive firearms training, but this willingness to just hand out tasers with little to no education on their proper handling. If you carry both, yet aren’t at the range with both on your hips, practicing drawing both weapons in different scenarios, then quite frankly, you shouldn’t be carrying both weapons. When an officer is practicing drawing his weapon from the holster and firing at a range, instructors go so far as to instruct the officer to make sure he snaps the weapon into the holster between rounds, since this is likely the way in which he would draw his weapon in a real life conflict. Those that skip this critical step are prone to fumbling when the adrenaline is going, when every second counts. You prepare for so many scenarios with firearms, but yet we just hand these guys tasers, show them a video, and they pop it on their belts like it’s a can of mace. It’s no wonder he had his finger on the trigger, he assumed he had a non-lethal weapon but had likely handled it so infrequently that no alarms went off when he had this thing in his hand that felt the same as his pistol. If had he practiced training with both, alternating drawing different weapons, then it would be nearly impossible not to able to immediately notice the distinction. Again, I sympathize, but the officer is not excused. Civilian with no weapons training make these mistakes, not trained Police Officers. Find another line of work.

Combat shooting is a muscle memory game. When you’re amped up your brain is worrying about a lot of things other than gun handling. You must have practiced that enough so that its automatic. The rule of thumb is that you’ll be half as effective in real life as you are at the range.

Cops are union guys. While some cops practice alot, most cops don’t. They’re not paid to practice, so why should they?

As a class, cops are poor gun handlers.

This cop, 27 years old with a new baby and 2 years on the job, is in what one of my retired buddy calls the “grenade catching” phase. They are trying too hard.

This is an accident. It’s fairly obvious that the cop didn’t intend to kill the poor slob.

We could howl about training and procedures and everything else, but bureaucrats are bureaucrats regardless of the clown suit or badge. The union bureaucrat mindset is to avoid doing anything vaguely resembling work and not even do that unless you get paid and its in the contract.

I wonder how many other shootings are really like this, this one is unique because of the amount of video.

If I was Czar, every on duty patrol officer would have a video recorder and camera going at all times.

Anyone who carries a gun needs to practice.

CrazyGene on January 9, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Cold. Blooded. Murder.

That tool shouldn’t even have had the gun pointed at the victim, let alone had his booger hook on the bang switch. Care to guess how many of the Four Rules he violated?

I fail to see how on earth that shooting wasn’t willful.

CTD on January 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM

What a horrible and sad situation.

I believe a major contributing factor to this incident was the fact that the train was allowed to remain at the station WITH ITS DOORS OPEN. It was clear that some riders took the opportunity to approach the area where the officers were trying to handle the brawlers. The noise level was high and there were many people shouting insults and demands to get the badge numbers of the officers. The tension was escalating rapidly and people uninvolved in the original situation were encroaching on the “safe space” for the officers. You can see at least one of the passengers get put down on the platform by an officer after he repeatedly approached them.

I am guessing, but I think that the rising noise level and approaching mob might have coincided with Oscar not fully cooperating with the officers and the one officer thinking things were going to get out of control rapidly and he panicked. I doubt that he consciously intended to pull the trigger, but once his gun was in his hand he should have realized that was one of short list of things that could happen.

Lots of fault to go around on why this happened. It should be used as a training tool to prepare other officers for properly handling these types of situations.

in_awe on January 9, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Anyone who carries a gun or keeps one for self-defense needs to practice.

CrazyGene on January 9, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Clarified.

MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM

What i saw on this tape is murder. There is no other way to look at it. This was an execution. That cop needs to get the death penalty. Yes, I’m a black conservative, and I support the death penalty for people that deserve it. This cop deserves it.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Many of our cops are no better than our thugs.

When one of their own get shot (which is pretty rare) they all will wear a black thing over there badge that says in latin “NO ONE ASSAILS ME WITH IMPUNITY”

It’s as if they are special. The fact is, that being a cop aint even in the top ten most deadly jobs.

But when one of them dies in the line of duty, they act as if they are some special breed. Kinda like when a shuttle goes down, it is somehow more tragic than when a school bus gets creamed.

TheSitRep on January 9, 2009 at 5:49 PM

He asked if he could search my vehicle, which I agreed to

Why?

God why? XD Just say, “Sorry, I don’t really have time for that.”

apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM

From this comment, i can get you are probably not a black person or a minority. If you are, then you are really asking for it. I’m black, and if a cop wants to search my car…I say by all means, cus I want to get home alive.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM

PresidenToor on January 9, 2009 at 5:11 PM
I mean the 210lbs bald white cop has his knee on the guys back, and there’s one guy on his feet. What more do you need? A taser as well?

First of all, it makes no difference, the color of the cop.
Second, have you ever seen the entire video of the Rodney King episode?

CTD on January 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM

Have you seen the video of the female officer with her gun drawn as she was assisting another officer? While holding her weapon, she discharged it right beside the officers head.
Another video showed an officer demonstrating how to properly handle a firearm when he discharged it, hitting himself in the leg.
So no one knows what the officer was thinking when this happened.

Johan Klaus on January 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM

From this comment, i can get you are probably not a black person or a minority. If you are, then you are really asking for it. I’m black, and if a cop wants to search my car…I say by all means, cus I want to get home alive.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM

What if the cop is black?

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM

One can imagine that it is even more so in police academies. The guy screwed up.

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 2:32 PM

Yes, a big screw up, unfortunately, the law of averages states that there will be x number of these incidents…it just happens.
Doesn’t mean that someone should be off the hook, it just means that when you have y number of incidents you have x number of accidents.
Even our great trained military take out a friendly tank, or drop a bomb in the wrong place.
Friendly fire can be more dangerous then the enemy fire.
In the act of controlled chaos, the risk of something going wrong is increased, and that is what happened.
Not right, not a reason to let him off, but a reason to treat this differently then some gangster walking up with a loaded gun in a liquor store…when you place men and women in high tense situations, you have to expect these things will happen. Expecting perfection in these tense moments is just unrealistic…we live in an imperfect reality, not a utopia of perfection.

right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM

TheSitRep on January 9, 2009 at 5:49 PM

I would not want to be a cop, would you?

Johan Klaus on January 9, 2009 at 6:04 PM

right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Friendly fire can be more dangerous then the enemy fire.

The grandson, along with several other guys from his unit were hit by friendly fire. Their reaction was, “When you in the sh*t, Sh*t happens.

Johan Klaus on January 9, 2009 at 6:09 PM

“Cops are just another gang.”
Nominated for stupidest comment of the year. An early leader! But in strong contention is this one:

Hardly. In the last 10 years I’ve gone from being a strong pro-law enforcement person to being someone who doesn’t want anything to bloody-well do with the cops. I’ve come to the conclusion that what needs to be written on their cars is not “to serve and protect” but instead “to harrass and extort”.

Last week, Dec 29, in one 5 mile stretch of highway I see three cop cars pulling over motorists. Gee, quota time, boys?

Pulled over last August. Headlight was out. Was fine earlier that day–just didn’t know it was out. Pulled over, ticketed, fined. Thanks, Officer Friendly, for just f***ing pulling me over and giving me a friendly warning.

First moved to Missouri years ago. Didn’t have front tag on my car, didn’t think MO required them. The MO dealership I’d bought it from didn’t even have a front tag on it, and didn’t provide fasteners. Bellavilla, MO cop pulls me over and treats me like he just caught a notorious crack dealer. A$$hole. Same Bellavilla cop pulled over my coworker, TOOK HIS LICENSE FROM HIM and forced him to go to City Hall to pay his 5 OVER THE LIMIT TICKET before he could get his license back and continue with his job (he was travelling to a client site to repair a copier). He had to wait 90 minutes before Officer Fatarse showed up with his license.

Alexandria, VA: morning and evening rush hour, the cops are like white on rice pulling over motorists, handing out fines. And impeding traffic in the course of their stops. I witness one serious bangup domestic violence fight in my apt building, call same Alexandria Police…they take 45 f***ing minutes to respond.

My own little nightmare: wife and I are separating, I’m still living with her. She’s got her laborer/hodcarrier brother with a criminal record living in the house with us (had been for last 6 months…he’d had his drivers license revoked). He goes off on me, attacks me, dude is MUCH larger than me, and quite frankly insane. I call 911, while he BEATS DOWN THE DOOR TO MY ROOM. Cops show up about the same time wife does. She lies and says I attacked her brother (bro is close to going to pen for next offense). Cops decide to LOCK ME UP. Finally they decided out of the goodness of their little pig hearts to let me leave with the clothes on my back and stay in a hotel. Thank God I’d closed on my new house 2 days before, just hadn’t moved in yet.

Cops–pork products, nothing less.

quikstrike98 on January 9, 2009 at 6:09 PM

Living in the Bay Area, I’m thankful for our police officers. They routinely get ridiculed and harrassed for being the law in an area where lawlessness and revolt is held in high esteem.

The shooting is a sad thing. There’s no other way to look at it.

But cops are not all brainless morons. They deal with brainless morons more often than not.

Take the people on that BART platform. Acting like lunatics, yelling at the cops after the cops were called there due to drunken fighting. What else do you expect from the baggy clothes wearing crowd?

And then in protest to the shooting what do we get? More assholes acting in the same manner that got the cops involved on the BART platform.

The shooting is a sad incident, but it was made possible by people acting like idiots and hoods in the first place.

BVM on January 9, 2009 at 6:12 PM

From this comment, i can get you are probably not a black person or a minority. If you are, then you are really asking for it. I’m black, and if a cop wants to search my car…I say by all means, cus I want to get home alive.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM

What if the cop is black?

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM

I live in Brookline, MA. I can’t tell you the number of times, I’ve been stopped by cops on the street, and questioned just for being in the neighborhood. The color of the cop doesn’t matter, even though I have never been stopped and questioned by any black ones for just walking down the street.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 6:18 PM

I live in Brookline, MA. I can’t tell you the number of times, I’ve been stopped by cops on the street, and questioned just for being in the neighborhood. The color of the cop doesn’t matter, even though I have never been stopped and questioned by any black ones for just walking down the street.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 6:18 PM

The context consisted of consenting to having one’s car searched. That ever happen to you? If so, has a black cop ever asked?

(I’ve never been asked to have my car searched so I have no experience to draw on.)

baldilocks on January 9, 2009 at 6:23 PM

What i saw on this tape is murder. There is no other way to look at it. This was an execution. That cop needs to get the death penalty. Yes, I’m a black conservative, and I support the death penalty for people that deserve it. This cop deserves it.

Chudi on January 9, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Really? He deserves it? And you can tell that right now, without hearing testimony or instructions from the judge.

You’re ready to impose the worst possible explanation on the facts, based simply on the fact that it was a cop that did it.

Gee, what does that put me in mind of….?

Dubya Bee on January 9, 2009 at 6:30 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6


You must be logged in to post a comment.