Video: The Oscar Grant shooting
posted at 12:45 pm on January 9, 2009 by Allahpundit
Three clips, the first a TV news report so you’ll have an idea of what happened and then two different close-ups via cell phone. The shooting comes at 1:15 of the second video and 2:55 of the third. In brief: It’s early New Year’s Day, there’s a fight on the Oakland subway, the transit cops come and pull a few men aside, one of whom is Grant. He ends up sitting against a wall, then two cops maneuver him face down, presumably to cuff him. There’s a slight struggle, whereupon one of them stands, pulls his pistol — and fires, sending his colleagues backpedaling in shock. Look closely in the second clip and you’ll see that even Mehserle, the cop who pulled the trigger, seems surprised. The theory is that he meant to grab his taser and wasn’t paying attention, but (a) the gun’s in his hand for a second or two before he shoots and (b) the other cop appears to still be holding Grant down. Wouldn’t that have transferred the zap from the taser into his body?
The bullet went through Grant’s back, bounced off the floor, and ended up in his lung. He died a few hours later. There have been demonstrations ever since, with Mehserle first being put on paid leave and then quitting the force on Wednesday. It happened in full view of dozens of people, obviously, so it’s hard to believe it was deliberate, but all I can come up with by way of explanation is that he had some sort of brain freeze.
You’re watching a man die here so please observe this, your official content warning. Exit question for our police readers: Have you ever absentmindedly reached for your taser and grabbed your pistol instead? If so, don’t they feel sufficiently different in your hand that you’d know instantly? Are the two weapons even on the same side of your belt?
Blowback
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getting a ‘no longer available’ on the first cell phone video
Mr. Bingley on January 9, 2009 at 12:49 PM
I FEAR cops. This happens even during ‘routine traffic stops’. When I see a cop, my only thought is, ‘please don’t shoot me’. Because they can and do, and they really don’t care because they think that by shooting people like me, they are helping me. . . sort of the same mentality that giving me a speeding ticket is ‘protecting and serving’ me.
I fear cops. I never feel safe when I see one. Actually I am generally fearful even though I am never a threat to anyone or anything.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Atrocious police brutality.
I’m truly shocked.
I weep and pray for Oscar’s family.
omnipotent on January 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM
my understanding is tazers feel much like real guns. This is backed up by the fact that some police forces require officers to wear the tazer on the opposite side of their body, forcing them to think about which one they’re drawing.
cameo on January 9, 2009 at 12:52 PM
What a bunch of ingrates in that crowd. Such lovely American citizens.
blatantblue on January 9, 2009 at 12:52 PM
No, they’re protecting and serving me from people like you. Don’t ****ing speed.
Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 12:52 PM
That’s awful. I sure hope the officer didn’t intentionally shoot him. The fact that he quit the force leads me to believe it was an accident and he feels terrible about it, but it’s probably best to reserve judgement until more is known.
BadgerHawk on January 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
it worked the second time.
oh good god! i don’t have speakers so i don’t know what was said but i sure didn’t see any cause to even draw a gun, let alone fire it.
Mr. Bingley on January 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
shame the guy got shot though.
blatantblue on January 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
anyone else, reading the comments here, get the impression that maybe dailykos or DU sent people here to be sock puppets?
cameo on January 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
I respect what cops do and have to do… but in the end, they are government agents with weapons.
mankai on January 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
You’re not very good at being a smart ass, seeing as I said or implied none of the sort.
You are good at being a dumbass, however.
blatantblue on January 9, 2009 at 12:55 PM
I can assure you I am less a threat to you than the teenager on the cell phone, or the person changing the channel going under the speed limit. What gives them the right to set a speed limit? They could limit the speed of cars if they wanted to stop speeding. Instead they give out tickets to generate revenue.
And many times the person they pulled over gets shot. It happened last month here. Shot dead. Thank god for the ‘helpful’ police.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Take it easy there Kleagle!
omnipotent on January 9, 2009 at 12:55 PM
You’ve never broken a speed limit in your life? You ever drive on any highway in the nation? People doing the speed limit are [pulled over for driving too slow.
Please.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 12:56 PM
I don’t like it, but I need to hear more details before I pass judgment. One thing, though:
This doesn’t necessarily excuse his behavior, but if Mehserle was running on pure adrenalin (which I don’t think he was) he could have easily mistaken the gun for the taser. One or two seconds when that stuff is going through your veins is often unreal. As for the zap, it might transfer if there is real skin-to-skin contact. If the officer was touching the perp’s clothes, it would be unlikely to transfer unless the perp was sweating.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Shouoldn’t you be posting on DailyKOS?
DethMetalCookieMonst on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Whoa. That is incredibly sad.
That said, Thacker, you need a better sense of risk. There is a reason why this is huge news: it is relatively rare. Of course, the fact that it is big news when it happens makes it seem far less rare than it is.
mcg on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
It’s too bad about the guy. However, I’m here in SF and take BART to work everyday, so I am quite aware of how dangerous the rampaging mob was the other night. There is no excuse for that kind of violence, EVER. Oakland has had over 100 murders of mostly black men in the last year. Where was the “outrage” for them? Every year, more than 100 black men are murdered in Oakland. Where are the marches? Listen, the only reason the mob went on a rampage is because the BART cop is white. Period.
sdillard on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
So you’re one of those leftwing trolls from DU/Somethingawful that we’re not supposed to know about, aren’t you?
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Dude made a tragic mistake. What, you think he “executed” this guy in public view? Don’t be stupid. Mistakes happen and this one is truly tragic. Far more people were killed that night from drunken drivers… whom we count on police to protect us from, no?
Sugar Land on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
You would never believe some of the things I have done when I was extremely tired. Why would this officer shoot the guy in the back for no reason? Is this a conclusion you would jump to if it were anybody but a police officer?
Blake on January 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM
That’s roughly the equivalent of seeing a black guy and your thought being “please don’t rob me”. Not implying racism, but irrational paranoia based on the actions of a small percentage of a group.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM
And you are great at being judgmental. The people there aren’t worthy of being Americans (you judge). I am a dumb ass for pointing out what you said (you judge).
Thank God for people like you who are so willing to let me know what your judgment is of anything and everything. I’m sure what you think is important to me.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Yes. This is to sad and to serious a situation for the comments I’ve read so far.
Tommy_G on January 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM
I’ve heard the same, also. Let’s not judge this stuff til we know the facts. There’s good & bad cops everywhere. They have a hard job full of rules & PC crap.
I think it would be very easy in that situation to mistake one weapon for another.
When was the last time you were afraid fro your life? What did you do to defend yourself?
How clearly were you thinking at the time?
Badger40 on January 9, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Cops are just another gang. My friends and I had a saying about police when we were young and it still applies today; “they can’t help you.” But boy, they sure can cause you some problems…
yubley on January 9, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Not a cop, but I know the local police here keep their tasers and sidearms on separate sides of their duty belts.
What a tragedy. My prayers are with the family of Oscar Grant and with this officer and his family. Neither one of them should have to face the future they’re looking at.
ExUrbanKevin on January 9, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Nominated for stupidest comment of the year. An early leader! But in strong contention is this one:
Go, men, go! It’s a race to the gutter!
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:01 PM
wihtout cops, I don’t worry about getting shot by cops. when a cop is around, there is that possibility. As I said, it happened here last month. Routine traffic stop, dude shot.
I got stopped in the middle of nowhere next to my house for not stopping completely at a stop sign recently. I only wanted him to not shoot me because I was by myself. I put my hands on the steering wheel the whole time so that he could see them.
When he came back to the car with my ticket (10:30 at night in the middle of nowhere), he barked at me alarmingly ‘why are your hands on the steering wheel’. I can definitely imagine his finger on the trigger with his tone. . . though I didn’t see him because he was behind me. I said, ‘because that’s what I’m supposed to do to protect you’.
Cops can, do, and will shoot you. . . and it will be your fault. That is scary.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Irrelevant. Just because other people are threats doesn’t mean you’re not.
The rest of us.
No, they couldn’t, because the speed limit isn’t the same everywhere and there are legit uses for high speed cars (IE: legal racing).
It’s probably the Mumia Abu-Jamal syndrome. Accidents happen. And sometimes the cops are dicks. Does that excuse your own behavior (which is what I took issue with)?
Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Thacker, please have some empathy.
Believe it or not, this story isn’t about you.
ExUrbanKevin on January 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
I think I need to give you a link to add some context to that comment from N California where they are talking about banning blacks because they have ‘loud music, late parties, etc’. That’s Jim Crow friend.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
It surprises me that there are so many “anti-cop” people on HotAir…Cases in point, go over some of the past “cop uses taser” threads.
I don’t know what was going through that officers mind…there certainly sounds like there was a lot going on that night. We don’t know the whole story except what we can see on a couple of YouTube vids. I’m not sticking up for that officer, but I can’t condemn him yet either.
JetBoy on January 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM
I don’t drive, but if I did and I was speeding, I’d take my ticket like a man, not whine about it on some video blog because I don’t get special privileges to break the law.
Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Wow.
And I suppose without laws, you don’t have to worry about crime.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Um, thacker
Just shut up and leave.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM
I’ve had probably 50 cops’ guns drawn on me in my life. I’ve also been shot by so-called non-lethal rounds.
During the traffic stops or other situations wherein an officers drew their weapons, HELL YEAH I WAS SCARED. The only weapon I had was a calm demeanor and instantly understandable information to give the officer to diffuse the situation.
When I got shot, five times, I didn’t see it coming. I didn’t hear any warning. I was by myself and I got f*cked over. The cops ultimately apologized and realized their error. I used to wonder how likely that would be to happen with regular ammo.
I think most police shootings are justified. However, often, too often, they are not.
We must wait for all of the information to come forth before knowing the deal here.
***
Police work would be damn near impossible if most people did not have some fear of the cops. Problem is that cops are human too. The ability of a man to instill fear becomes a drug for many men. Drugs and guns don’t mix.
The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM
While I’m not a cop I’m a gun nut and usually look to see what cops are carrying. In my town the duty pistol is strong side just behind the hip. The taser is on the officers weak side in front of the hip in a cross draw holster so the officer has to reach across his body to get it. Two very different motions to draw.
alilianstrom on January 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Why does it surprise you? This place has gone from a decent conservative hangout to an
anarchist, oh I’m sorry, I mean libertarian, version of the daily kos.Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM
*sigh*
You’ve got some imagination.
JetBoy on January 9, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Happens
Kitsap County (WA) 2006
UndertheBridge on January 9, 2009 at 1:05 PM
There are some bad cops. The majority of cops are good men, who put their lives on the line every day and deal with one of the most stressful, frightening lines of work you can do.
And you know what? They put their lives on the line to protect idiots like you.
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I ride BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) everyday from the valley to SF to work. This incident occurred at the Fruitvale station in Oakland. It was a tragic event for sure. There were some protests in Oakland on Wednesday starting at the Fruitvale station. As usual things got out of hand: cars torched, windows smashed; the usual stuff. The sad part is that the office in question never gave a statement to BART police. Now that he’s resigned he doesn’t have to give one. If it was a mistake, it was a big one. If he doesn’t pay, then the city will suffer. Mark my words.
Smooth Rooster on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I wonder what the heck was going on there to begin with. I genuinely think the guy made a mistake, but obviously, with such a dire outcome, he needs to pay for it.
From reading your comments, it sounds like you have a very irrational fear of cops. Yes, there are some vigilantes out there, but given that there are hundreds, maybe thousands of speeding tickets given out daily, I hardly think that “many” of them are getting shot. And on the occasion that they are, there is often an escalating circumstance that caused the situation to get to that point (i.e. drugs, resisting arrest).
Sir Corky on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I’ve also had guns drawn on my be gang members and other sundry knuckleheads.
When a cop draws his weapon, I know that I have a good chance of living because he is only trying to protect himself and others. Presumably all I have to do is be calm.
When a thug draws his gun, you’re lucky to walk away alive. There is often no way out.
The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
You and I agree for the first time.
faraway on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I think some around here think the police have some unbased fear.
50,000 cops are assaulted every year. You want “police brutality?” There it is.
blatantblue on January 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
That looks very, very bad.
How do you accidentally draw your pistol and shoot someone at point blank range. Someone who is obviously not presenting a credible danger to your life?
It looks…wrong.
Ares on January 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I agree with Thacker on this one. Remember, we’re in the land of no knock warrants and we all know how well that works out for the innocent. Law enforcement has also taken the position it has no legal obligation to protect the individual citizen from harm, and anyone who thinks they don’t close ranks to protect their own, lives in a dream world.
a capella on January 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Surprise!
So who are you being “protected” from? You don’t even drive, and hence, your comment did not reflect the reality as is known by anyone who actually does drive. Cops generally permit people to go anywhere from 5 to 15 mph over any given speed limit – especially on highways – and it is rare that you’d get a cop pulling you over for violating a speed limit unless you’re going faster than that or you’re in a zero-tolerance community. You’d know this if you drove.
Let us know when you start driving, bud.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM
How many times have you been shot by cops? Did you lose a lot of blood? You might want to check for brain damage.
He has a point though: Why do we have cops? I can’t think of a reason. It’s pretty stupid. We should get rid of them. I’ve been shot by cops three times, and only once was justified while the other two times were iffy. I don’t need that.
frankj on January 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Ditto here on how the local LEOs are carrying. There are a lot of possible factors here that range from defective weapon/fire control group to plain old fear. We need to back off any judgements until the investigation is complete.
Limerick on January 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM
A tragic mistake that results in a death like this is called “Negligent Homocide” and often results in a jail penalty of 5-10 years. Because morons with the power of the state at their back shouldn’t fire guns recklessly.
There is no doubt in my mind that this police officer is going to jail, as he should. Negligence, recklessness, or intentional – he’s going to jail.
Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM
It’s strange that with a lot of these shootings and cases of “police brutality,” the events stem from people NOT DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD; from people refusing to subdue. I’m not saying that is the case HERE, but my point harkens to the more general issue.
blatantblue on January 9, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Back OT, this was really bad. Perception is reality to most folks, and the perception of cops here is not a good one.
Prepare to have this trumpeted by every leftists anti-cop group and anti-gun group on the planet for years to come.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Thanks XD
That needed saying. Dude’s a moron.
apollyonbob on January 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM
I just finished reading “Blink”, a great book about instant decision making. The author, Malcolm Gladwell, does a great deconstruction of every moment of the infamous Abu Dahla shooting in New York.
Cops have to make split second decisions, and they put their lives on the line every day to protect you and me. They lose them sometimes, too. When the cops stop you, you lose your Constitutional rights for the moment. You are in a police state. Act like it!
Thacker will undoubtedly encounter “police brutality” someday. Why? Because he has no respect for the police. He considers them thugs. When stopped by the police, he will profile himself as a dangerous criminal, and will be treated as one.
As Chris Rock puts it so well: “You don’t want yo a** beaten by police? Don’t break the law!”
bonnie_ on January 9, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Right, he doesn’t drive, so he could never be a passenger in someone else’s car, and therefore hit by a speeding driver. And speeding drivers never hit pedestrians.
Sir Corky on January 9, 2009 at 1:13 PM
My husband is a retired policeman and when this video appeared on the news yesterday I asked him how it could have happened. He said it looked to him like the gun went off accidentally. A horrible tragedy. By the way, my husband drew his gun once in 28 years on the force.
schaffies on January 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM
It doesn’t surprise me. Hot Air readers tend to be more informed, and it is damned hard to be both informed and supportive of the current police culture. The current police regime is rotten to the core, with corruption, testilying, and routine coverups.
There is no way that a “good” cop could serve for long in that much corruption without being corrupted himself (just like politicians.)
phelps on January 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM
AP, “Oakland subway” is really not correct. It’s the Fruitvale BART station in Oakland.
MamaAJ on January 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Dud also apparently never looked at a driver’s spedometer while driving, otherwise he would never have made that comment. Driving too slow (in the flow of traffic) is as dangerous to others as speeding. If the speed limit is 55, everyone’s driving 70 and you’re doing 55, there’s a better chance you’re going to either get hit or cause an accident than if you were driving 70.
Old ladies can back over pedestrians in parking lots, too. better call the traffic cops.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Cops are just another gang. My friends and I had a saying about police when we were young and it still applies today; “they can’t help you.” But boy, they sure can cause you some problems…
yubley on January 9, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Oh Yubley, the ’60s just called, they want their idiotic subversive attitude back….
max1 on January 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Was Grant resisting arrest or not? If not, why would he have even been reaching for a taser in the first place?
I’m more and more convinced that the police need to take it down a notch on the taser usage. It seems to me that before the advent of tasers police somehow managed to restrain people successfully. They should only be used if absolutely necessary, not simply because it’s convenient. There’s no way to know how electrocuting somehow is going to affect them.
alex342 on January 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Yeah… they’re just pulling people over all over the place and shooting them… please.
D2Boston on January 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM
re: ThackerAgency on January 9, 2009 at 12:50 PM
There was a time, not too long ago, when conservatives were literate in the political philosophy on which America was founded. Based on the accusations of DailyKOS sockpuppetry leveled against Thacker, it seems that nobody else here still is. From John Locke’s Second Treatise:
A police officer’s job is to uphold the law and to protect the law-abiding, but they are not all on the side of justice, nor they are not always infallible. They’re human, and mistakes, accidents, and misunderstandings happen, as this video evidences. A police officer can kill anyone at any time–not with impunity, of course, but retributive justice doesn’t mean much to you when you’re dead. Just because events like this are rare doesn’t mean it’s a phobia to be concerned about it.
hicsuget on January 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Ever been beaten by a cop? Ever break the law? If you have, then you deserve to be beaten.
There’s your logic for you.
The Race Card on January 9, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Wow, saw one person get banned in another thread already today. Might you make two?
Kelligan on January 9, 2009 at 1:18 PM
So, if everyone else is breaking the law then it’s ok?
I’ve driven for 11 years now, and I always go the speed limit. Living on Long Island and having to drive on the LIE, the Northern State and other very heavily traveled roads, I’m constantly passed by speeders and horrible drivers. Not once in my 11 years driving have I been in an accident, but I’ve seen several speeders involved in them, and even more near-accidents.
If you want to speed, then fine. I’m not going to as well just because you want to break the law and I might cause danger to you by abiding by it.
Sir Corky on January 9, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Aiie.
Don’t want to watch.
Bob's Kid on January 9, 2009 at 1:19 PM
You are right…still my heart goes out to someone who under stress makes a fatal mistake…not unlike taking your eyes off the road and hitting a child on a bike…both unintentional but both misjudgment.
Tens of thousands of arrests, and something tragic like this will happen…doesn’t excuse it, it just mathematically has to happen, nothing is perfect.
Still, I wonder, if the man had peacefully given himself up would he still be alive?
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 1:20 PM
QFT
- The Cat
P.S.
Did you ever think that maybe it was because you were tho thcared of the thtoormtroopth in jack bootth that you were acting suspiciously and jumpy like you were about to drive off. You prolly had your foot on the brake instead of just putting your car in park and he saw your break lights all lighty.
MirCat on January 9, 2009 at 1:20 PM
And it is even damned harder to be informed and also go by the moniker “phelps”, it seems.
Abby Adams on January 9, 2009 at 1:20 PM
It’s possible to have right opinion and be a complete and utter moron. Being concerned that people are attacking a moron means you’re no longer literate in the political philosophy of not being a moron.
frankj on January 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Thacker claimed that often, people getting pulled over get shot. Doesn’t sound like he thinks it’s “rare.”
I find the police to be extremely helpful and hardly as reckless as some would make them out to be.
This incident is a tragedy, for certain, but the pontifications on the evil of our nation’s police is drama-queen material.
D2Boston on January 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM
How about they let the investigation happen before passing judgement?
Mistakes happen. Kids with guns who got them out of their parents closets. The safety not on or not working properly concerning a hand gun.
Waiting is the best route for this.
upinak on January 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM
As for attitudes on cops in general:
Cops are people like everyone else and growing up in New Jersey, you learn that they can be corrupt as anyone else. Cops in NJ were not hired because of their character or ability. They were hired because their parents were political donators of the local mayor, or because they had other connections. Maybe that’s not the case elsewhere, but it was and still is the case in New Jersey.
Still, I was a huge supporter of cops and I live now in NYC and supported the cops when Guliani was mayor.
I disagree with a lot of libertarians and especially the decriminalization of drugs crowd, but when it comes to pointing out evidence of police misbehavior nobody does it better. And there’s a mountain of police misbehavior out there. Reading enough of it has caused me to be much, much more skeptical of police than I was before. Google “puppycide” as an example.
Generally, I think police misbehavior is more prelevant in small towns and suburbs than in big cities, because big cities aren’t likely to hire cops based on personal connections and cops have a lot more people watching over them than in small towns. And in small towns, police are much more likely to target outsiders and people who are politically unfriendly to the local mayor or political establishment.
Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM
That looks very, very bad.
How do you accidentally draw your pistol and shoot someone at point blank range. Someone who is obviously not presenting a credible danger to your life?
It looks…wrong.
Ares on January 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Doesn’t pass the “looks” test for you, eh? And you know for certain that the guy was posing no threat, eh? In other words, it doesn’t “look” like the valid police shootings your’e used to on NYPD Blue, Hawaii Five-O and Cagney and Lacey? Please, reserve your judgement based on a grainy video. Violence never looks the way it does on TV and in movies. Perhaps the officer (wrongly) perceived that Grant was going for a weapon. Tragic mistake, but a mistake nonetheless, made in a split second of indecision and wrong thinking….
Let’s get to the facts before making judgements, what do you say?
max1 on January 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM
I will not attempt to excuse what appears to be gross negligence on the part of the officer, but the video shows that this was a very tense situation even before the shoting. From the noise, it sounds like there was a large crowd waiting for an excuse to riot. You see a couple of times where a few people almost rush the police. The cops were probably really on edge and distracted by the crowd. After the shooting, the the mob mentality takes over. On the third video at 3:26, you can see someone throwing something at the police.
BohicaTwentyTwo on January 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM
I’m not Thacker’s best friend or anything, but I’m pretty sure his comment was a sarcastic response to another poster.
BadgerHawk on January 9, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I’m glad you’ve never once in your life violated a speed limit even by 1/2 mph. You’re the first person in history to have done so.
Fine. Let’s play it your way. Speed limit’s 55. A nice little old lady not wanting to hurt anybody merges into the highway and goes no faster than 45. She’s not speeding, and yet, she’s a hazard on the roadway because she’s blocking the flow of traffic. It doesn’t matter what the speed limit is – those who drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic are not speeding and are still dangerous to others on the roadway as any flagrant speeder/reckless driver is.
Yes?
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Whoa..Whoa…Whao…take it easy. You just verbally did what the cop did.
portlandon on January 9, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I don’t need to drive to be hit by a car, genius. I ended up on the hood of some a**hole once (luckily he was stopping anyway so I didn’t get hurt). All I was doing is crossing the street (legally). I’ve seen one guy avoid instant death by doing a huge jump out of the way as an incoming car slammed into the back of another car. If the dude had been a split second off on his reflexes he’d have been a human sandwich. Speed limits exist for a reason, especially in populated areas: to give you enough time to stop if something pops up.
That said, I don’t see the point of most of your post. Just because some cops CHOOSE to give you some leeway (especially on highways) by not ticketing you doesn’t mean you have the legal right to break the law or complain when you do.
Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I signaled a cop to pull over, after passing an irrigation pipe that had been placed across a road by pranksters.
It was about 1 am., I approached the cop in the car not thinking, when I got there, his radio was on, his gun was in his lap and he had the look of “what is going to happen”.
I explained and he somewhat relaxed…I walked back to the car and said to my wife “what a lousy job, I could see in his eyes this might be ‘it’”. I realized, every routine stop, every routine arrest, every routine interaction with the public, isn’t routine.
And when something goes horribly wrong, it is really “wrong”.
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 1:26 PM
live here in the Bay Area and my stepkids ride the BART to school every day in Oakland. I think Mehserle made a stupid, tragic mistake–I’m leaning toward the explanation that he meant to reach for his taser. For that kind of mob scene I think they should’ve called in the Oakland PD–this was over the heads of the BART police, IMO. You’ve got a hundred people shouting in the background, belligerent guys posturing and lunging around the periphery as the cops try to handle the main perps. Chaos.
As a previous poster pointed out, the people of Oakland have interpreted this horrific mistake as additional proof of institutionalized racism, or some such thing, and used it as an excuse to riot, break windows, destroy property, vandalize cars, etc.–doing great damage to their own community. This is reflective of much greater problems in Oakland than one confused cop making a bad mistake. Oakland has one of the highest homicide rates, except most of the time it’s young men like Oscar Grant killing each other. When do we hear the outrage about this?
ThanksMo on January 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Cops don’t set laws. And how does that excuse OTHER traffic violations? Since when does one thing not being a crime mean other crimes should be without penalty?
“I don’t think I should be arrested for blowing that cashier’s brains out because there’s people out there driving slow who are a danger too and they don’t get arrested.” It’s asinine. If you want slow driving to be a violation, write to the appropriate authorities. Do something about it. Don’t claim you should get a free pass because others do.
Darth Executor on January 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM
For something this serious, a sarcasm tag (/ or /sarc) would be helpful. He also hasn’t defended or clarified his statement. So I’m not so sure…
omnipotent on January 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Yep…What max1 said.
JetBoy on January 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM
A tragic one in a million accident, but the cop must be held responsible for his (incompetent) actions.
Dave Rywall on January 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Naive post of the year…and I would bet it stands until the end of the year.
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Simply amazing. I have a great idea, let’s try living a few days without police officers. Let’s see how you like that.
Ingrate.
dean_acheson on January 9, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Sorry to hear it. Was he speeding, BTW, or was he just not paying attention to the road? Because they’re different things. You can speed AND pay attention to the road at the same time, which this guy was not doing. I got hit riding a bike once by a guy turning a corner at 5 mph – he was just looking the other way. Speed had nothing to do with it.
The point is that speeding within 5 or 15 mph of a posted speed limit is common (any cop will tell you that), and usually not punished unless it is flagrant or REAL speeding.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Do you say that to your insurance clients?
Let’s keep a list of what this guy does not like:
Catholics
Cops
Any more obsessions?
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM
I’m going to drive home from work today on a highway where the speed limit is 55 and the flow of traffic is 70. I will pass two state troopers in speed traps. They will not follow me or anyone else unless they see somebody going faster than 70.
That’s not naivete. That’s called reality.
Good Lt on January 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM
I was an Oakland Police Dept officer for 23 years, retiring as a Deputy Chief there (Not the BART police in this incident, but Oakland Police) and we trained many BART officers. So, a few observations…
Officers draw their weapons many times but are trained, trained, and trained again to NEVER put thir finger on the trigger unless they are morally and legally justified in killing someone. It would appear that the BART officer here forgot that and had his finger on the trigger and the gun went off. There is no such thing as an “accidental” shooting. Guns do not go off by themselves, somebody has to pull the trigger. From what I’ve seen, this officer neglected his training resulting in a tragic death.
Officers are also trained, trained, and trained again to NEVR have anything in their gun hand during interactions with people, you need that hand available in case you need your weapon and you always know exactly where that firearm is and how to get to it. That’s why you train in the dark, blindfolded, under stress…so you ALWAYS know exactly where that firearm is. Mistaking the location of your firearm for the location of a Taser, or any other weapon, is not a realistic excuse.
Tasers and .40 cal or 9 mm handguns may look alike in some cases, but they sure don’t feel the same in your hand. Tasers are lightweight and mostly plastic whereas a pistol with a 15 round magazine weighs a heck of a lot more. You know if you’ve got a pistol or a Taser in your hand.
As for using the Taser when another officer or officers is in contact with the person to be Tased, yeah, you’d better tell him to get out of the way! I’ve seen a few incidents with officers accidentally tased, and have been the victim of other officers over-enthusiastically swinging a baton while my leg or arm was in the way. It’s all about communication!
Trafalgar on January 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Even if it was a tragic mistake, the cop should go to jail for it. It is not a defense to a homocide to say that the death only resulted from your negligence.
Furthermore, the law distinguishes between “negligence” and “recklesness” (or “gross negligence”). Negligence is a small mistake, recklesness is a big mistake. This is a big mistake. And if by acting recklessly you cause the death of a person, you can go to jail for a very long time. It’s just one notch below intentional murder.
Sydney Carton on January 9, 2009 at 1:32 PM
That’s too bad, but hey, when you brawl in public, things like this happen.
I just have a difficult caring about people exhibiting anti-social behavior. It’s not a right, it’s not right and the American people should be tired of it.
We will never have a society where it will be completely safe to brawl in public, so perhaps the brawlers might learn something here.
NoDonkey on January 9, 2009 at 1:32 PM
I noted, quickly, but in the second video, does it look like a bystander had a gun in his hand, right in front of the camera?
right2bright on January 9, 2009 at 1:33 PM
The news here showed footage of the cop holding his tazer before the suspect is shot.
This is really bad. Cops can be really bad. I doubt this guy did it deliberately. I feel for him as well as the dead man and his family. It is really unfortunate.
Its no excuse for some of the protests going on in Oakland, however. Many of the protesters aren’t even local and they are only making things worse.
lexhamfox on January 9, 2009 at 1:33 PM
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