Sorry but you have no idea what is actually happening over there nor the long,bloody history of geopolitical israels persecution of palestinian Christians.

Yes they outlawed Christians proselytizing jews and in fact they burn the New Testament openly in the streets and they stone and spit on Christians who dare to preach the Gospel in their judaist theocracy.

I’m talking about the Hebrews here…not the muslims.

Is anyone here aware of this?

They are no friends of Christianity. Christianity is their enemy.

The only group we should help and support are the palestinian Christians.

SaintOlaf on January 8, 2009 at 9:50 PM

You are good at half-truths:

Yes: Israel is less than kind to Christians who attempt to evangelize Jews in Israel. I know an Evangelical Christian (converted Israeli) woman in Israel and she has related some VERY ugly — and frightening — incidents towards other Jewish believers in the LORD Jesus at the hands of Chasidic (Ultra-Orthodox) Jews in Israel. I have no need to whitewash the truth.

However, you failed – and here you are either woefully ignorant or else you are being diabolically dishonest — to mention that Palestinian Christians Arabs (PARTICULARLY of the evangelical variety) have suffered MERCILESS persecution (to include dispossession of property and, even, at times, death) at the hands of your huggable Hamas and Fatah types. The Catholic hierarchy in Israel and the Palestinian territories does VERY little (any?) speaking out against this Muslim persecution of the Evangelical/Pentecostal Palestinian Arabs. Whereas some 50 years ago, some 30% of Palestinian Arabs were some variety of Christian, that figure is now probably below 10%. Why? They no longer feel welcome by the MUSLIMS and they emigrate. It is a calumny for you to blame the Israelis for the persecution visited upon the Evangelical/Pentecostal Palestinian Arabs by their Muslim “brethren” — as is the wont of the Orthodox and Roman hierarchies in the Palestinian territories and Israel.

Nonetheless, the Israeli Government is FAR more favorably disposed towards Christians than is Hamas or Fatah. It is a joke even to make the comparison.

Also, you fail to mention that Hamas is FAR more brutal than are the Israelis towards other MUSLIM Palestinians in Gaza with whom they disagree — killing, kneecapping, imprisoning, and beating are some of their standard prescriptions for those who dare to disagree with Hamas (and are crazy enough to show it).

As far as your assertion that the only people over there that we should support are the “Palestinian Christians,” you are showing your anti-Semitic streak. Apparently you don’t believe the Bible when it says in Genesis 12:3 that God will bless those who bless Abraham and his seed (you know, those Jewish enemies of Christians).

Finally: What — pray tell — is “geopolitical Israel?” Sounds like yet pseudo-intellectual code for “the Zionist entity.” Seems to me that that might be a sword that cuts both ways. Shall we not then also talk about “geopolitical Vatican,” replete with its own national flag and ambassadors, etc? Or, are we only talking about “religious Rome” here?

“Violence, wherever it comes from and whatever form it takes, must be firmly condemned. The military solution is never an option,” he said.

So loving your enemy as he/she cuts off your head is the only option?
Living in a heavily Catholic community, I guess I’m glad right now I’m not Catholic.
But if the head of my church said the same thing, I guess I’d have to go with my own prayers & conscience & fight to the bitter end.

It is Hamas who make Gaza a concentration camp. That is the second part of the observation that nobody seems to make and have the MSM report on it.

{^_^}

herself on January 9, 2009 at 4:00 AM

I’m with you. Muslims like that don’t care about their own ‘people’ AKA religious zealots. They are in it for the Koran. Die die die infidels.
This infidel will not die quietly.

Please don’t quote me and then pretend you are being responsive and/or rebutting what I said.
And don’t take my failure to address what you wrote as acquiescence. I think it’s b.s. but have too much work to do.

Blake on January 8, 2009 at 9:02 PM

I think you addressed my response in the inimitable fashion that those who “have too much work to do” do (sic).

Go sing your terrorist sympathizer song elsewhere.

runner on January 8, 2009 at 5:02 PM

No, it’s based on Google Mapping Gaza, coupled with stories like those associated with Canada Park.

I’m not giving Hamas an inch in targeting noncombatant civilians with rockets and suicide bombers, but “what goes around comes around” is, unfortunately, a historical axiom. Google “king david hotel bombing” or read Moshe Dayan’s autobiography to put things into perspective.

Then reconsider you kneejerk response.

ProfessorMiao on January 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Obviously a Brain Surgeon here………

All the Gazan people need to do is renounce violence against Israel and Jews in general and mean it. That means, of course, ceasing to fire any more missiles into Israel.

That will never happen. Hamas is an organization of religious warfare based on the Qur’an. As such they cannot renounce violence against Jews; and, by extension they cannot renounce violence against Israel.

But if it could happen there could be peace. The money and aid Hamas diverts to war and terror would go back into the local economy turning Gaza into a tourist trap with its beaches.

It is Hamas who make Gaza a concentration camp. That is the second part of the observation that nobody seems to make and have the MSM report on it.

{^_^}

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From an old file of mine:

“Michael Novak Attacks Cardinal Martino, Defends the Iraq War
Sept 16, 2004
Martino? There he goes again! The Italian newspaper Il Foglio ran a piece Dec. 16 about the frustration at the Vatican, at the secretariat of state, with the imprudent, irascible anti-Americanism of Cardinal Martino, an unfortunate recent appointment (late last year) to the Council for Justice and Peace, who has not ceased being an embarrassment to his superiors. By Michael Novak.

(Source unknown, 17 December 2003) When I was in Rome last February, Cardinal Martino was already under heavy fire for his intemperate and irrepressible anti-Americanism. Even those who before the war leaned more to the French/German position than to the American were dismayed by his uncalled-for comments.”

Gaza IS a concentration camp but it’s of their own making. The Vatican is just giving the obligatory “can’t we all just get along” rhetoric so hippies don’t complain that they’re blind to the plight of fellow man or some crap like that.

Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 5:15 PM

True. The Palestinians put themselves into the concentration camp in 1948.

The Catholic Church’s official pronouncements seem to reflect the overall European attitude of “blame Israel first — and exclusively”. Craven.

So, you know, screw that.

ebrawer on January 8, 2009 at 8:29 PM

Sorry but you have no idea what is actually happening over there nor the long,bloody history of geopolitical israels persecution of palestinian Christians.

Yes they outlawed Christians proselytizing jews and in fact they burn the New Testament openly in the streets and they stone and spit on Christians who dare to preach the Gospel in their judaist theocracy.

I’m talking about the Hebrews here…not the muslims.

Is anyone here aware of this?

They are no friends of Christianity. Christianity is their enemy.

The only group we should help and support are the palestinian Christians.

They rounded up all the palestinian Christians and muslims and innocent children into a ghetto and are now indiscriminately bombing one of the most densely populated areas in the world. They are bombing full HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS and mosques.

Do you not realize how difficult it is to target all the hospitals, all the schools, and all the mosques when they are all full of the innocent palestinian Christians and muslims and innocent children? Please give the IDF some credit. Specifically targeting and intentionally killing all these innocents is a technical feat not easy to accomplish. And yet, the Israelis have accomplished it. They ought to bottle such efficiency. Those Jews are something. They could teach the Germans a thing or two about how to exterminate a people.

At this rate, it won’t be many more days before the jews kill all the Palestinians, and this whole problem is resolved. Then they can start coming after Christians in other lands. Think of all the matzoh they’ll be able to bake this Passover. Wow!

The “silent pope” meme was something thought up by an anti-Catholic German Protestant and put into a play — none of the Pope’s contemporaries thought him silent or inactive.

That was Rolf Hochhuth and his play “The Deputy”. Curiously enough, he was a Protestant whose father had been a Nazi. Curious as well is the fact that the Nazis were overwhelmingly Protestant (especially Lutheran); something that some of the rather overeager stone-throwers among this blog should contemplate.

The play was nothing more than a cowardly attempt to expiate the “collective guilt” that the Nazis and their descendants felt for what they had done. The Catholic Church did not gas anyone with zyklon b, the National Socialists did.

The body of the Catholic Church may not have done as much as they could have (Eugenio Pacelli deserves to be recognized as a Righteous Gentile) but that only highlights the fact that nobody did enough.

Still the main source of evidence that the critics of Pius XII use is a fictional play written by a Nazi sympathizer. Funny how fiction passes as facts for the anti-Catholic lurkers around here.

unclesmrgol on January 8, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Please don’t quote me and then pretend you are being responsive and/or rebutting what I said.
And don’t take my failure to address what you wrote as acquiescence. I think it’s b.s. but have too much work to do.

The issue is not that Pius did nothing but whether he could/should have done more.

Blake on January 8, 2009 at 5:59 PM

Marvin Hier says that Pius was “silent”. Do you agree with him?

What the Pope did was to learn from the Edith Stein incident, which was that, whenever the clergy spoke, they weren’t the ones killed or punished — their parishioners were. In the case of Edith Stein, there was supposed to be a day of solidarity in the Netherlands, where from every pulpit (both Catholic and Lutheran), condemnation of the Nazi pogram would be issued. Interestingly, when the day came, the condemnation came from Catholic pulpits, but not from Lutheran ones. As a result, the Germans ordered as an example all Jewish converts to Catholicism rounded up and deported; Edith Stein was amongst them. No priests were harmed in this atrocity.

Would you speak out, knowing that your opponent would kill, not you, but your spouse and children? For a priest, his parishioners are like his spouse and children. This was designed to silence clerical dissent, and it was “successful” to the extent that opposition went underground.

The Pope did speak out, privately. When the Hungarian bishops indicated that they liked the Nazis and what the Nazis intended for the Jews, the Pope sent a nuncio to them and made them toe his line. I quoted Adolf Eichmann to give a sense of what the Nazis thought of this Pope. I quoted two prominent Jews to give a sense of what they thought of Pius. And, finally, a quote from someone who was there in Rome during the time the Nazis were rounding up Jews to give a sense of what they thought was happening.

The “silent pope” meme was something thought up by an anti-Catholic German Protestant and put into a play — none of the Pope’s contemporaries thought him silent or inactive.

This Pope isn’t being silent or inactive either. His underlings slightly overstate things when they speak of Gaza as a concentration camp, but they would be absolutely correct if they called it a ghetto — a place where the people whose property you have taken are put to languish in poverty.

The Pope is absolutely right about this.

What geopolitical israel is doing is committing genocide.

They rounded up all the palestinian Christians and muslims and innocent children into a ghetto and are now indiscriminately bombing one of the most densely populated areas in the world. They are bombing full HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS and mosques.

The collateral damage is huge.

How would you feel if it was your innocent children that were getting blown to bits by the war crimes of geopolitical israel.

For all you protestants who hold the heretical doctrine of dispensationalism and support geopolitical israels murders…you should be ashamed of yourself.

It is absolutely un-Christian to support injustice, murder and genocide.

SaintOlaf on January 8, 2009 at 7:50 PM

First of all, we must agree on what the word genocide actually means. As far as I recall, it means the systematic elimination of an ethnic or religious group.
What race or religion is “geopolitical” Israel systematically eliminating? Arabs? 1.3 million Arabs live well in Israel, and Israel has peace treaties and diplomatic contacts with Arab states. Or is Israel eliminating all muslims? Again, many Arab Israelis are muslims. Furthermore, they specifically target Hamas with precision weapons, which makes the claim to genocide patently absurd.

Now that we have established that you don’t understand what the word genocide means, let us go to the matter of schools and hospitals. International law clearly states that civilian infrastructure being used for military purposes is NOT protected. Hamas is the party that is violating international law by 1) not displaying clear insignia and 2) using civilians as shields.

Now the matter of Gaza being a Ghetto… The Arabs and the UN built the refugee camps! When Egypt annexed Gaza and Transjordan annexed Cis-jordanie in 49, instead of treating the Arabs there as normal citizens and allowing them freedom of movement, they built camps to keep them there so as to use them as anchors against Israel. Israel did NOT build them.

As for how un-Christian it is to support injustice, murder and genocide, I’ll just say that you have to be fucking kidding me. Should I actually give you a list of every act of injustice, murder and genocide by the Catholic Church and it’s Princes? Furthermore, your talk of heretics is all the more proof that you’re insane. What are your plans for tonight, maybe a few witch-burnings? Maybe attend an ODESSA meeting?

What geopolitical israel is doing is committing genocide.

They rounded up all the palestinian Christians and muslims and innocent children into a ghetto and are now indiscriminately bombing one of the most densely populated areas in the world. They are bombing full HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS and mosques.

The collateral damage is huge.

How would you feel if it was your innocent children that were getting blown to bits by the war crimes of geopolitical israel.

For all you protestants who hold the heretical doctrine of dispensationalism and support geopolitical israels murders…you should be ashamed of yourself.

It is absolutely un-Christian to support injustice, murder and genocide.