Gaza not unlike a big concentration camp, says top Vatican official
posted at 3:34 pm on January 8, 2009 by Allahpundit
Not just repulsive but gutless, since he leaves us to guess which side he thinks wears the swastika. Even to venture a Holocaust analogy under the circumstances is a supreme insult, of course, but he’ll get away with it because he gets to hide behind the cross.
Absolute moral authority, you see.
Cardinal Martino expressed concern over the humanitarian situation, saying “Let’s look at the conditions in Gaza: these increasingly resemble a big concentration camp.”
He added: “Defenceless populations are always the ones who pay.”
The Israeli Foreign Ministry said that this amounted to “Hamas propaganda”, and accused the cardinal of ignoring Hamas’s “numerous crimes”. “This does not bring the people closer to truth and peace,” it said.
The Simon Wiesenthal Centre, which monitors anti-Semitism and tracks down Nazi war criminals, attacked Cardinal Martino for making remarks that were “untrue, distort the memory of the Holocaust and are only used against Israel by terrorist organizations and Holocaust deniers”.
Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean of the centre, said: “The cardinal should know that however difficult conditions may be in Gaza, the one thing it surely is not is a concentration camp where Jews were brought to die either by slave labour, starvation, or in most cases burned in the crematorium.”
Surely not, but as Hier himself noted elsewhere today, the rules for Israel are different. I wonder, if Gaza’s just Dachau by another name, why’s the AP running reminiscences by its reporters of how life used to be before the bombing started? (“Al Dera, a beautiful hotel on the Mediterranean shore, was a place where young men and women smoked water pipes and flirted, and where families went for dinner on Thursdays.”) Are there similarly wistful recollections in the archives at Yad Vashem that I’m not aware of? “The Buchenwald I Knew”?
I’ll spare you the atheist boilerplate about how unrealistic the Christian approach to conflict resolution is here (“violence, wherever it comes from and whatever form it takes, must be firmly condemned”) and remind you that there’s politics afoot as well. Benedict has his own strategy for engaging with Muslims, and alienating them by supporting Israel against eliminationist scum like Hamas only complicates it. His “peace at all costs” agenda also makes him a potentially valuable useful idiot for fundamentalists too, a fact that hasn’t escaped Iran’s attention. Given their interest in Gaza, who knows if they haven’t already leaned on him to be scrupulously “evenhanded” in his statements. Ironic in Martino’s case if so, considering how highly nuanced indeed is Iran’s view of the Holocaust.
Tough day for Israel, though. First the Vatican comes down on them, then the world’s Ultimate Moral Authority hails Hamas’s weapons tunnels as “defensive.” What’s next, a statement from St. Barack deploring the “cycle of violence”? Exit question: Should Israel cancel the pope’s visit?










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The Vatican has a long storied history of supporting the Jewish people.
/s
thomasaur on January 8, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Young women flirting with anyone in Gaza was usually the precursor to their fathers and brothers savagely killing them to save the family’s “honor”. Oh … the good old days …
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Please don’t generalize this as the Christian approach to conflict resolution. As an evangelical Christian who supports Israel I was appalled to read about this yesterday.
INC on January 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM
The Catholic Church has been a advocate for “social justice” issues since the industrial revolution when politics entered into the mix.
keep the change on January 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I would refer people to what he actually said rather than the MSM representation of what he said. The original interview was to an Italian online magazine. Here is the automatic translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.ilsussidiario.net/articolo.aspx?articolo=10714
What is missing in the Middle East scene to take the road of dialogue?
A more acute sense of human dignity. Nobody sees the interest of others, but only their own. But the consequences of selfishness is the hatred for each other, poverty and injustice. To pay the people are always helpless. Look at the conditions of Gaza increasingly resembles a big concentration camp.
bnelson44 on January 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM
this pedophile cardinal should convert to islam
reliapundit on January 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Long standing Catholic tradition does not include the need for concentration camps. They just kill people where they stand. Until d-bags like this Cardinal stand up and admit guilt of their church in killing tens of millions of people, I could care less what any of them say. They are all just gutless con artists hiding behind church walls.
grdred944 on January 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Does anybody really care what this fat Nazi jackass has to say about anything?
revolution on January 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM
That’s better.
Sure glad I’m not Catholic.
Maxx on January 8, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Vatican not unlike Berkeley.
OneGyT on January 8, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Sorry, INC, but from what I picked up on the other thread is that you can not call yourself a Christian if you support Israel and Jews are satanists and the anti-Christ. YMMV
Blake on January 8, 2009 at 3:43 PM
I’m in the process of being reconciled to the Catholic Church.
Lately the church bulletins have had features on “islamophobia” and has been listing some muslim holidays along with important catholic days each week.
If the Catholic church is unwilling to speak out/ stand up to islamofascism and support Israel’s right to defend herself then I will seriously reconsider my decision.
My former denomination(Nazarenes) doesn’t have that problem.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 3:43 PM
That is not exactly the Catholic view. Here is the teaching from the Catholic Catechism:
The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp
bnelson44 on January 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM
I hope you meant to have a /sarc tag there.
INC on January 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Can someone rebut the message in this video?
I’m still inclined to believe that both sides (Israel and the Palestinians) are at fault.
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Except for the minor difference being that the inhabitants of concentration camps were not lobbing rockets into the Commandants quarters.
thomasaur on January 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Presidents always do. As far as I know, though, Obama’s been pretty quiet about it. He probably doesn’t want to spend any of his own political capital dealing with the situation, until he absolutely has to. I wouldn’t either if I were in his position, since this flare-up will already be winding down by the time takes the oath. Soon we’ll have Hillary making trips to the region, and if we’re lucky she’ll remind the Palestinians of the offers they rejected last time they sat down to deal with a Clinton and a Bara(c)k. They’re unlikely to get a deal as sweet as that one again (i.e. no East Jerusalem – yet), although it’ll probably come close.
Big S on January 8, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Defenseless populations usually aren’t so stupid as to vote for all-out war with a nation that could make them disappear in the blink of an eye.
People have to come to the conclusion that suicide bombing is not just an individual sport in the arab/muslim world, but indicative of a very deep problem in their culture. The fakestinians are perfectly happy to turn their whole society into a suicide bomb, hoping that Israel might be destroyed in the process.
And their push will not stop with Israel, either. This is how the arab/persian/muslim world is. We are going to have to realize this, and also remember that the Allies killed about 10% of the German population and almost 5% of the Japanese population. That is how wars are ended, and the stupidity and insanity of the current arab/persian/muslim enemies are going to require even higher percentages to affect the same as we did in WWII. It’s coming.
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Obviously, millions. However, the Pope was never a nazi not did he make the statement.
Maybe, they should rethink this “social justice” thang? Because the movements that have espoused social justice: Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, Maoism, Pol Pot, and many many others, only resulted in mass graves and gulags.
Blake on January 8, 2009 at 3:47 PM
MedSchoolCatholic:
Israel’s at fault for giving up Gaza(and the West Bank) in the first place.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Except without all of the gas chambers and ovens…….which, oddly enough, the Pali’s think is the solution to their Jooooooooo problem.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on January 8, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Hey…at least they’re admitting that there WERE ovens.
/s
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 3:49 PM
I’m a Christian (of the small “c” variety) and this comment is just grotesque. Comparing concentration camps to anything other than other concentration camps is nothing but lazy, dangerous, slackjawed rhetoric–I don’t care who says it, the Pope, Jimmy Carter or my own pastor.
Gymkata on January 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM
The Pope needs to stay out of this conflict.
SC.Charlie on January 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Unacceptable. I support Israel…and I am Catholic.
mindhacker on January 8, 2009 at 3:51 PM
They had to. Israel couldn’t survive as a Western-style democracy if it kept that territory.
Big S on January 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM
The analogy that the conditions of Gaza increasingly resemble Nazi Germany during WW2 is more accurate.
Besides the analogy being false, it is a direct insult to those who really know what a concentration camp is. Low disgusting blow and I expect Martino to get his pee pee slapped.
Blake on January 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Allahpundit, you’re atheist ignorance is showing.
The Pope said no such thing, it was a Vatican bureaucrat. The Vatican does not have papal infallibility, only the Pope does.
Thank you for continuing to spread ignorance and misinformation about the Catholic Church, Allah. Your buddies Hitchens and Dawkins thank you.
Martino said something completely idiotic. Furthermore, he knew the press would jump all over him. He should be fired, and a retraction made post haste.
Why anyone thinks a bureacracy like the Vatican is less idiotic than any other bureacracy is mind-numbing, but please don’t ascribe an authority to a bureacrat that he does not, in actuality, possess.
BKennedy on January 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Can someone rebut the message in this video?
I’m still inclined to believe that both sides (Israel and the Palestinians) are at fault.
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Yeah, I can. It’s crap.
Israelis must be at fault because they want to live in peace and the Palis want to kill all of the Jews and take over Israel.
Poor poor Palis – the Jews are not going to lie down and be good dead Dhimmis like the Eurocommies.
TexasJew on January 8, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Mindhacker:
Is that the “official” view?
I was born Jewish so that is a big issue for me.
Thanks.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 3:53 PM
1. Since when has a cross ever protected someone from criticism? Have you been asleep while typing out these stories the last couple years Allah?
2. Give me a break! You know Michelle, Ed, Bryan and countless other conservative Christians who have nothing but love for the military and for what we’ve done in Iraq and you call this a Christian policy? You normally seem fair, but sometimes you just take shots at us.
Esthier on January 8, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Yeah, right. As a Catholic, I find the Vatican’s constant wishful thinking, and termperance with regard to Islam a silly fantasy. And Pope John Paul II’s regular condemnation of the “west”, was not only tiresome, but just stupid. At least Benedict hasn’t gotten into that as much. He ought to slap Martino and tell him to sit down and shut up.
Benedict did not back down from the Islamofascists a couple of years ago when he got into trouble w/them about some of his writings. I don’t believe that is what he is advocating here either. He is giving the standard Catholic regret line about loss of life etc.
JAM on January 8, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Sweet! So they’re going to completely ignore it, and let it continue for years without interfering, just like last time?
Great. Glad that’s settled.
Tanya on January 8, 2009 at 3:55 PM
So the The Simon Wiesenthal Centre implying the false charge that the Catholic Church under Pius XII was compliant with the Nazis is brave and acceptable? The Catholic Church either denies the Holocaust or is a terrorist organization?
The cardinal isn’t the only one using inflamed rhetoric…
darclon on January 8, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Unfortunately, no. However, I wasn’t the one spouting that nonsense. And by spout, I mean it was like an effin’ geyser. Bleh.
Blake on January 8, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Divide and conquer.
blankminde on January 8, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Untrue. There was no reason for Israel to give up Gaza without getting anything in return. That should be obvious to you seeing the aftermath of the idiotic disengagement. And staying in Gaza or not had nothing whatsoever to do with Israel remaining a “Western-style democracy”. Nothing at all.
As to the West Bank, the pals are just gonig to have to leave that territory. Israel can have no security if the pals were in charge of the West Bank. That is also quite obvious.
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 3:56 PM
There’s a big difference. The Palestinians are free to leave anytime.
Vashta.Nerada on January 8, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Look at the conditions of Gaza increasingly resembles a big concentration camp.
bnelson44 on January 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM
That would be true, if concentration canps only consisted of the SS guards and raving Nazis shooting off V2 rockets to kill British schoolchildren.
The chickens are coming home to roost for the Hamas-loving Palis, and it’s a beautiful sight to see.
TexasJew on January 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Also, the Pope only exercises his infallibility when he solemnly declares his statements to be infallible. In most instances (such as his stance against the Iraq war), he is simply stating his private opinion, with which the laity may disagree.
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Moral blindness from the biggest pimper of morals in the world.
Nice.
misterpeasea on January 8, 2009 at 3:59 PM
All the Pope said was that, basically, “war is wrong” and should be avoided. Probably exactly what Jesus would say. Again, I’m Catholic and I support Israel fully in this conflict. I won’t be excommunicated for it…
But the Catholic-bashers are out, with things like:
And this:
…which have nothing to do with anything.
JetBoy on January 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM
The cardinal is a leftard. He is repeating the latest leftard meme that Gaza is like a KZ, Gaza City is like the Warsaw Ghetto, the IDF are like nazis. It’s all b.s., of course, and highly offensive. It’s meant to be offensive. I don’t know if the cardinal meant to be that offensive because as we all know, leftards are so insular that they think their crazy beliefs and utterances are the norm.
Blake on January 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM
When you hear a cleric say “Social justice and peace” translate it to socialism amd appeasement.
All mainline churches preach this heresy, or allow it to be preached in their name – the catholic church is the worst because of their size and influence.
Many evangelicals, see Rick Warren, are following suit.
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Supporting the Jewish people????? Yeah, supporting them up against a wall as they are shot dead
J.J. Sefton on January 8, 2009 at 4:01 PM
First of all, the Palestinians are not going to be leaving the West Bank. You forget that fantasy.
Second, withdrawal from Gaza had the benefit of drawing a bright line in the sand between Israeli sovereignty and that of the Palestinians, no matter how despicable their government may be. It is to Israels’ advantage to deal with them as if they are a foreign entity rather than an oppressed group within its own borders – which they would have had to remain if Israel wanted to continue as a Jewish state.
Big S on January 8, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Since when is the Vatican the beginning and ending of CHristian thinking regarding conflict resolution????
MarkTheGreat on January 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM
If this is what you believe then you are an ignorant and naive atheist.
Ignorant because evangelicals do not base their position on violence and war on what Rome says but rather on scripture.
Naive because the Vatican is not just a religious organization but a state which has been subtely trying to get back its power to this very day. When it does get its power back it will likely be singing a different tune.
shick on January 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM
MB4 on January 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM
OK, fortunately, I missed that thread.
INC on January 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Although I’m not a practicing Catholic I was baptised Catholic and I am ashamed for all Catholics and this Cardinal for what he said.
Ahtiest or not what this Cardinal said was absolutely absurd and the only reason I can think of for him saying it is he’s getting some practice at being a Dhimmi.
I understand most religions (other than Islam) are pacifist in their beliefs, and that’s admirable unless of course you are being confronted by a death cult/religion like Islam that wants nothing less then your elimination, it is then that such pacifism in the face of such evil is not only ignorant but is also suicidal!
Liberty or Death on January 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Well said BKennedy.
crabtree on January 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Yeah, it’s not like the west hasn’t aborted millions of innocent children. Oh wait…
At least when Al Quaeda kills its children, they take out some of their enemies with them.
I’m starting to feel the same way I did when some UN tool (I think it was Kofi Anan) told Iran they should respect freedom of speech and Iran asked what happens to Europeans who deny the Holocaust.
As it stands I can either pick between evil liberals who slaughter unborn babies and enslave millions with retarded socialist policies, islamist fucktards who need no introduction, and moron conservatives who do nothing about the millions of liberal parasites in their midst while raging about some goatherder f**ks who wouldn’t be a problem if said liberals didn’t exist in the first place.
Well, soon I’ll have to pick between the liberals and the islamists, because conservatism is gonna die in the next century. Anyone selling any cheap abandoned islands?
/rant
Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Dickhead. Try to drive out of Israel. Then you’ll understand.
JiangxiDad on January 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Indeed, JetBoy.
I thought gratuitous Christian bashing was only the Left’s thing.
I thought wrong, obviously.
Hawkins1701 on January 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM
There’s an old saying.
If the Palestinians laid down their arms, there would be peace.
If the Israelis laid down their arms, there would be no Isreal.
It’s still true today.
MarkTheGreat on January 8, 2009 at 4:07 PM
It isn’t Christian bashing.
Is the Vatican on the side of Israel and freedom or not?
That’s a legit question.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM
My impression is that Allahpundit is just Christopher Hitchens Lite.
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Hey allah, considering how many western atheists are pacifist liberal p****es themselves, maybe you should cut this “christian conflict resolution” s**t out.
Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM
The Italian sun has cooked this monsignor’s brains.
runner on January 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Dickhead. Try to drive out of Israel. Then you’ll understand who’s locked in.
JiangxiDad on January 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM
And he denies his nazi past? Defected when the war was essentially lost?
The Jews were not trying to kill the Germans, the French, the Dutch.
They were not free to create industry, accept aid, lob bombs and kill nazis from the camps
They had no media in the camps
They were not free to practice their religion, marry, form political parties.
The euros did not rally for them or threaten germans in other nations.
The pope’s mmessage is a lie and a travesty
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Only if they can find someone to take them.
And so far, nobody else wants them either.
MarkTheGreat on January 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM
“Defenceless populations are always the ones who pay.”
Right, the same defenseless population that was cheering with glee after the towers were hit. The children of Hamas will be tomorrows suicide bombers. The mothers send their children off to be martyred. The fathers martyr their whole families. I don’t feel sorry for any of them.
They wish and pray for our destruction. Why should the West look out for them?
CarolynM on January 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Jews who oppose Israel’s wars don’t get even half of the treatment catholics here get. I suspect it’s mostly the atheist/protestant fascists that have turned hot air into the conservative version of the daily kos who are using this as an excuse to rage about their pet issue.
Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM
It doesn’t matter what the pals want. They have to leave. Period.
LOL. The bright line lit up by Hamas rockets? Or the bright line drawn up on the maps of many that includes no Israel? Lots of bright lines out there, but Israeli sovereignty has been dimmed by the Gaza pullout.
The despicability of a government on your borders is always a matter of utmost importance, especially when that despicability is aimed at you.
ROFLMAO! Show me where this great advantage shows up. I can’t see it. The arabs still scream about being occupied in Gaza, years after Israel left. And most of the world agrees with the pal assessment, along with the idea that Israel must be destroyed. The Gaza pullout won Israel nothing, and lost them quite a bit.
As to the “oppressed group within its own borders” … Interesting use of words. The arabs scream of being oppressed no matter where they are. And people who want Israel dead don’t give a sh!t about the details of the situation. They just want Israel to disappear. Disengaging from Gaza let them think that they were getting closer to their goal .. which was true, as we can all see.
So what? The pals are entitled to nothing. They deserve nothing. They were on the losing side of umpteen wars against Israel and have to suffer some costs for those losses. They are only lucky that Israel has refused to extract those costs, but they will have to, eventually.
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM
/s = shorthand sarc tag
thomasaur on January 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Not sure about that, during his trip to Turkey he supported the islamist governments bid to join the EU.
And (according to euronews “during his visit to the Blue Mosque, the pope turned towards Mecca in a gesture of Muslim prayer, his hands crossed over his stomach, at the suggestion of the Muslim cleric accompanying him. He remained for several seconds with his eyes closed.”
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM
They are free to live in peace, support their families and not attack their neighbors.
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Actually they’re not. Even if Israel just let them (i’m not sure if it does, but I find it hard to imagine they’d just let people leave since smugglers would get half their mission complete free of charge), Egypt would gun them down. Nobody wants them.
Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM
.
Exactly. Nonetheless, left wing politics has permeated the Catholic Church for almost 150 years. To a great extent, Opus Dei was created as a conservative counter measure to the prevailing leftward surge of the Church. The Catholic Church is such a huge organization, that it too has been permeated by the influence of the leftward movement of our society.
keep the change on January 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Gazan’s are far from being an unarmed populace – unless AKs and Katyusha rockets no longer count as arms.
I’m sure it’s not a cake walk living there. It’s one of the (if not the) most densely populated areas in the world. Death is a regular part of life and I doubt you could find anyone there that doesn’t have at least one close friend or relative that has been killed or maimed in the conflict. Curfews can be imposed at any time and can last for months. It’s not easy to leave either. Egypt sure as hell isn’t letting anyone across the border. Israel will grant travel papers to some, but, since almost everyone also has a close friend or family member that is involved in terrorism against Israel, it’s also hard to prove that you can be trusted moving through their country to get anywhere else. And, let’s face it, as far as immigration goes, there aren’t a whole lot of countries out there that are excited to let Palestinians move in right now.
The question that rarely gets asked and (in my opinion) usually gets answered wrong is, “Who is to blame for this?”. The finger usually gets pointed at Israel, but, most of these hardships are the direct result of decisions made by the Palestinians and their leaders.
If Gaza resembles a concentration camp, it’s one where the doors all lock on the inside and the people could leave if they were only willing to use the key.
JadeNYU on January 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM
The fact that their are palestinians here and in europe, who were born there says they can leave.
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Actually, in the name of Christian Brotherhood I’m going to apologize to Allahpundit. I got a little harsh in that last posting.
Nothing infutiates a practicing Catholic like me more than when some high level Vatican official shoots his mouth off and says something ridiculous, stupid, and reprehensible.
You can see the results in this thread. The Catholic bashing vultures immediately come out and pretend that this high-ranking plucky dope speaks for Catholics everywhere, or is somehow representative of the Pope’s “true beliefs.
[You know, the super duper double secret ones.]
BKennedy on January 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Somebody call Christopher Hitchens
Baphomet on January 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Considering Benedict’s own brush with the Nazi party in his youth and the Catholic Church’s spotty record during WWII (people still argue back and forth about Pope Pius and whether he ignored or helped Jews during the Holocaust), I think that the Vatican might want to stay away from such analogies.
Illinidiva on January 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Sorry, AP, that’s not “the Christian approach to conflict resolution.” That might be what the Vatican is saying, but it’s a fundamental misrepresentation to call that “Christian.” Specifically, Christianity doesn’t call for peace at all costs. The Bible (the Old Testament, even) says that there is a time for peace and a time for war. Even Paul, in Romans 12 says “If it is possible, insofar as it depends on you, live at peace with all men.” Note the “if it is possible, insofar as it depends on you” part. This means that you should not start conflict and should not seek revenge for wrongs committed against you, but that doesn’t mean that you should allow wrongs to continue to be committed against you. Sometimes, exhausting all other possibilities, you have to fight.
In short, there are times when people are trying to kill you and being a Christian doesn’t mean that you simply have to oblige them.
PersonalLiberty on January 8, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Turkey is much more a secular Muslim state than an Islamist state…
JetBoy on January 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Another interesting fact:
There are more palestinians who are citizens of the US than citizens of any arab country, except Jordan. Why is that? Because the arab league decided, after losing in 1948, that no arab country was allowed to extend citizenship to the pals, since it might reduce pressure on Israel. That’s why there are generations of non-citizen pals in just about every arab country.
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM
AP,
Your picture posted on the “front page” with this entry is terribly misleading and unfair. Martino is not the Pope, and is not even speaking on bahalf of the Pope, yet you show a picture of BenedictXVI. If you’re going to take your shots, okay, but at least have the decency to put up the correct picture.
marybel on January 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM
If this man does not speak for the Pope the Pope should correct the record and remove this man from his position. If he does not, it is because he agrees or is willing to give the perception that he does.
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Ambassador Mordechai Lewy dismissed Martino’s comments, saying that the cardinal was not in charge of the Vatican’s diplomatic relations and had ”never seen a concentration camp in his life”.
”The relationship between Israel and the Vatican is as good as before,” Lewy said.
He praised the pope for condemning violence in Gaza and appealing to both sides for peace in a traditional New Year’s address on Thursday.
http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-01-08_108309561.html
bnelson44 on January 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM
My jewish mother thinks Benedict’s a good guy.
Being forced to join the Hitler Jungend does not a Nazi make.
annoyinglittletwerp on January 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM
BKennedy, the problem is that “ridiculous, stupid, and reprehensible” statements in favor of left wing causes never seem to get repudiated by the vatican.
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Yes. I don’t view Martino’s statements as “The Vatican” speaking. I think that Martino just saw a competition with the Archbishop of Canterbury and took a shot at the individual title. But Pope Benedict does need to speak up about this.
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM
How would you know? All you get is what comes out when Allah blows his atheist load.
Darth Executor on January 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM
What is repulsive, Alla, is that you put this in here knowing it will bring out every rabid anti-Catholic for miles (gotta get your jollies somehow I suppose) but you also put that picture of the Holy Father up there, knowing it will make it seem like he’s the one who said it. And you have been doing this long enough that you knew that when you did it. It has already been shown in many of the posts already, that the anti-Catholic bigots barely read the post and completely missed that it was an “official” and not the Holy Father, who of course is THE top Vatican official..
If I weren’t a Christian woman, I would be tempted to say fu*k you to all of you. As it is, I’ll just take comfort in the words of Jesus. “And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”
pannw on January 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Yes to do…
http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-01-08_108309561.html
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Yes they do…*
MedSchoolCatholic on January 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM
What kind of camp is the Vatican?
The Race Card on January 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Hamas does not care what kind of shape Gaza is in:
“This is a civilian area and you can see on the map how Hamas booby-trapped the entrance to homes in order to hit the IDF”
INC on January 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Tell me something I don’t know.
Cardinal Bernard Law is still in some office over there doing some mid-high level office work. I don’t believe you can de-cardinalize or un-ordain anyone, but I sure wish all those pedophile enabling Bishops got put on lifetime janitor duty for pennance.
BKennedy on January 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM
I hope you’re right about that. The party in power used to describe itself as an islamist party, and still draws most of it’s support from consevative muslims.
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM
How, exactly, do you plan on accomplishing that?
Would you prefer to ship them out via rail or simply kill them?
Big S on January 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM
The statements of “officials” when left uncorrected do plenty of damage.
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Allahpundit is a fool on this topic and knows not what he talks about. The Church is concerned about the innocent lives. This is a job for special ops, not tanks.
ironmonk on January 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Are there any statements from vtican officials blaming Hamas/Iran for the conflict? Could it be that we don’t see them because they don’t fit the narrative that our media pushes?
kcewa on January 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM
The “pals” need to concentrate on living peacefully and not killing their neighbors, I think that would stop the fighting.
The muslim world needs to give up the jews are apes and pigs routine and deal with their own internal injustices toward women and minorities.
They don’t need to leave or go anywhere, they just need to stop blaming other groups for the misery created by their own leaders and own choices.
They are addicted to hate and violence no less than the alcoholic who blames his misery on the “unfairness” of old circumstances.
clnurnberg on January 8, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Gee, I don’t know. How does the UN effect their ethnic transfers, which they, and the rest of the world, love? How were the Jews removed from Gaza? How did 400,000 pals get ejected from Kuwait (for supporting Saddam Hussein in 1991)?
progressoverpeace on January 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM
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