Waiting for that example of persecution of Christians by Israel, Kleagle Olaf. Waiting, waiting. . .

SheofTwoMinds on January 9, 2009 at 12:17 AM

I’m sure it’s no picnic living between the Palestinian Muslim population and Israeli army soldiers. Like any group of young men, you’re going to have your hot-heads, bigots and a-holes. I found the cab-drivers in Israel to be difficult enough, so I’m sure that there are times when things are hard for Palestinian Christians–being stuck in between as they are. But skim over this, from a Catholic blogger, and I think you’ll see what the real problem for Palestinian Christians is.

http://guardduty.wordpress.com/2006/12/18/theme-plight-of-christians-in-the-holy-land/

Since I know Kleagle Olaf wouldn’t click on a link to some Zionist-Catholic conspiracy site, I’ll just paste a excerpt here:

Nazareth is marked by its famed black-domed Basilica of Annunciation, the largest church in the Middle East. In 1997, Muslim fanatics laid a green canvass tent-mosque next to the Basilica. They claimed it to be the gravesite of Shahib al-Din, the nephew of Saladin, who disposed the Crusaders of Jerusalem in 1187 AD. Their objective was to build there the largest mosque in the world, with minarets that would tower above the Basilica. Their real purpose was to intimidate the Christian pilgrims, audibly with blurting of azan on loudspeakers, and visibly by presence of bearded Muslim fanatics.

This culminated in the Easter ‘riots’ (actually Islamic aggression) in March, 1999. The Christian (Palestinian Greek Orthodox) mayor who supported building of the plaza was knifed by local Muslim fanatics. Fights erupted on the streets with screams of Allah-o-Akbar (Allah is great) and many people were hurt. Any car with Cross on the mirror of sticker of The Virgin Mary, was destroyed. During two days of rioting, churches were torched, more than sixty Christian-owned stores and two Muslim ones, both owned by supporters of the mayor, were vandalised. Binyamin Netanyahu (199 and Ehud Barak (1999) governments approved the project for building a small mosque that would not overshadow the Basilica of Annunciation. The controversial mosque was partially built by March 2002 when during Ariel Sharon’s premiership the Israeli cabinet decided to halt the project. Finally, the mosques foundation was demolished by Ariel Sharon’s government in 2003. In 2002, the then Housing and Construction Minister had correctly observed a few days before the cabinet took the correct decision: “The Islamic Movement will hate Israel regardless of what the government decides, therefore it should have concerned itself with the minority rights of Christians than gaining a few (Muslim) votes, which it could never get anyway”.

Notice the horrible treatment the Christians got at the hands of the bloodthirsty Sharon.

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 12:52 AM

Hello, have you ever heard of the Anti-Missionary Law that the theocratic state of israel passed on December 25, 1977. Israel’s infamous “anti-missionary” law. This is a statute that decrees a prison term of up to five years for any gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from his faith.
SaintOlaf on January 9, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Ya got me there, Nazi. I guess Israelis don’t want people coming who read the Five Books of Moses as if they were looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars, and tell them that this

3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore unto Abraham thy father; 4 and I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands; and by thy seed shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves; 5 because that Abraham hearkened to My voice

is referring to Jesus, when it is clearly God addressing Isaac, speaking of his father Abraham. It’s insulting to the intelligence of those who take the this part of the Bible very seriously, and for whom it is not just a platform on which a subsequent drama is to be enacted.

You wouldn’t know, unless you’d lived in the middle of a Jehovah’s Witnesses enclave (there must be one somewhere), how it feels to have well-meaning people who don’t usually sound particularly intelligent, telling you how you just don’t understand what your own scriptures are telling you. What was it Elvis said, “Walk a mile in my shoes?”

Anyway, I guess if Christians who want to live in Israel can restrain themselves from trying to convert all the people around them, they won’t have any problems with the Israeli government. But I suppose you would consider a live and let live policy to be worse than having your leading clergy getting stabbed to death. Ok, Nazi, have it your way. In your mind, the Joooooos are alway gonna be the bad guys.

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 1:15 AM

For the record, I believe that Ben Gurion’s biggest failure was allowing the Rabbinate state power. It’s been bad for Israel, and it’s been bad for the Rabbinate. NO ONE hates religious Jews more than the Jews who live in Tel Aviv. They have to come to America, and stumble into a Reform synagogue, in order to realize that no one can coerce them with respect to marriages, divorce, etc, at which point they can begin to appreciate their own religion. (And this is an Orthodox Jew writing this.) The fact that Rabbinate has state power in Israel does not, pace the Nazi, make “geopolitical Israel” (can’t you just see the flecks of spittle hitting the keyboard?), a “theocracy.” Israel has a Supreme Court and a contentious Knesset, who can and do rule against the Rabbinate in secular affairs. The other big problem is the parliamentary system, which allows tiny religious parties to blackmail the major secular parties, by threatening to blow up coalitions. In this way, they are able to exert an influence beyond their size. This, however, is a far cry from a theocracy, as anyone but our religiously inclined Lyndon LaRouche would be able to understand. How about those British bankers, Kleagle Olaf?

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 1:38 AM

I would like you all to know that we Christians love you and pray for you. SaintOlaf on January 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM

Oh just shut the f*ck up you condescending bastard. With love like yours, I’ll take my chances with the slimy, opportunistic double-dealing of the Democrat Party. What does a Jew need with the love of an anti-Semite?

You know what? There’s a gazillion Muslims out there that would love to have you, too. I’ll make you a deal. You convert to Islam, and I’ll convert to Christianity, how’s that? Yeah, I know, one just doesn’t go around changing their faith just like that–not when one’s faith is the truth. Exactly. Get your head out your ass, grow up, get a new drug, do SOMETHING! And get some fresh reading material–all those Nazi tracts are going to rot what’s left of whatever mind you had to begin with. Just remember, you’re reading my Bible translated from Hebrew to Greek, and then to English (any number of times, depending on which version you’re reading). That right there would give you a little humility if you had a lick of sense.

I don’t mind wrangling with ideas, but name-calling is a downer. (Okay, some of the name-calling is pretty clever, but I can’t help but remember that there is a real human being at the other end of it.)

SheofTwoMinds on January 9, 2009 at 12:57 AM

I hear you, but I don’t truck with anti-Semites. And I don’t throw that word around like some idiots I know (Abe Foxman?). I had no problem with Mel Gibson’s movie the Passion. I didn’t see it, but I totally can relate to believing Christians wanting see a full-bore cinematic mounting of their core belief/narrative. I respect believing Christians, (in many ways more than I respect many non-believing Jews) and I don’t get Jews who are afraid of them. But this Olaf character uses all this anti-Semitic code language, and brings out these classic distortions of history that are not just any distortions–they are classic Arab anti-Semitic distortions. The term “Judaist,” rather than Jew, for example, is used because it is meant to confer the same negative connation that “Islamist” does, as opposed to the more innocuos “Muslim.” “Geopolitical Israel” is a sneering term that quietly insists that the present-day Israel, is not “the real Israel.” And so on. These are the people that have and will murder my people in huge numbers, or will aid and abet the same, and I will call them every nasty name in the book, and none of them will hit the mark.

Oops, I was careless earlier when I inserted Abraham’s name into this passage. My bad. SheofTwoMinds on January 9, 2009 at 1:34 AM

No need to apologize, I knew what you meant. You don’t have to be so nice. I don’t bite (normal people).

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 2:09 AM

Oh, and thanks, omnipotent. January 9, 2009 at 2:22 AM

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 8:52 AM

However, sometimes there is that hammer on thumb moment which serves as the exception to the rule.

OldEnglish on January 9, 2009 at 8:54 AM

Thanks, and you nailed it (no pun intended). That’s exactly what it was.

smellthecoffee on January 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM