Israel caving to pressure, or isolating Hamas?
posted at 11:38 am on January 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Send to a Friend |
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Israel has expressed a willingness to discuss a new cease-fire in its campaign against Hamas in Gaza. Diplomats will arrive in Cairo later today to confer on the war touched off by Hamas’ rejection of a months-long truce and their missile and mortar attacks on Israeli civilians. The signal may indicate a retreat on Israel’s pursuit of Hamas — or just a PR campaign to demonstrate openness to diplomacy:
Officials here said a high-ranking Israeli delegation was scheduled to arrive in Egypt Wednesday to discuss the possibilities of a cease-fire in the Jewish state’s 12-day assault on the Gaza Strip, significantly ratcheting up Israel’s public diplomacy as pressure to halt its offensive grows.
Israel’s military Wednesday also allowed what it called a three-hour “recess in offensive operations” to allow humanitarian supplies and food to be distributed throughout the densely populated territory, where approximately 670 Palestinians have been killed and approximately 3,000 wounded since Israel’s military attacks started on Dec. 27.
Israel’s cabinet was discussing Wednesday afternoon whom the government would send to meet with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to discuss a more permanent cessation of hostilities. It was unclear whether any government minister would travel to the resort town of Sharm-el-Sheikh, or whether the delegation would only include a high-ranking army officer who has been spearheading the indirect negotiations with Egyptians about Hamas.
The BBC says that Israel has accepted “truce principles”, but with the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority and not Hamas:
Israel wants to stop rocket attacks on southern Israel and to stop Hamas smuggling weapons into Gaza via Egypt, while Hamas says any ceasefire deal must include an end to Israel’s blockade of Gaza. Israel said it was not sure how long the diplomatic process would take and that a working arms embargo on Hamas was needed.
Little official detail has been given about the French-Egyptian proposal, which is backed by the US and UN, but diplomats say it centres around measures to halt weapons smuggling from Egypt into Gaza, coupled with moves to ease the blockade.
In a statement released on Wednesday, France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy welcomed “the acceptance by Israel and the Palestinian Authority” of the truce plan. The statement did not mention Hamas.
We can draw a few conclusions to this effort. First, the Israelis may have achieved all they expected from this operation and are ready to conclude it. That wouldn’t necessarily be the obvious conclusion, though, as they have Gaza locked in a vise grip and have the opportunity to smoke out and destroy Hamas. They won’t find themselves in this position again for a while, and one would expect the Israelis to take full advantage of it. However, that will require a large amount of destruction and collateral damage, and the total destruction of Hamas might be impossible anyway, and the IDF may have reached the threshold of diminishing returns.
Next, the French and Egyptians appear to have gotten the message about Hamas. The communique appears to go out of its way to exclude Hamas, and the truce principles agreement comes from Hamas’ political opponents/enemies in Fatah. They may want to smooth the path to restore the authority of the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in Gaza after three years of Hamas rule, at a time when Gazans may finally welcome the change.
Unless the Israelis want to reoccupy Gaza, they need some sort of political resolution to the conflict. Their biggest worry is the Iranian proxy Hamas. If they can get Hamas out of Gaza and the West Bank, that will be a huge victory for Israel and for the Palestinians in the long run. It will be an even bigger defeat for Iran, which is why the French and Egyptians want to make these arrangements.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Caving to PR pressure, which will be the death of them if they do.
Air Raids should be going strong.
upinak on January 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM
We’re just repeating this process!
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 11:42 AM
If Hamas gets a ceasefire now, Israel made a terrible mistake. If Israel keeps going for two weeks, Hamas gets some serious body blows.
Mr. Joe on January 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Maybe they learned from American Military Operations in Iraq and will ignore everyone’s crying and whining and do what’s best for Israel for once. Israel has Hamas in a blood choke right now and it scares the crap out of Israels enemies, well which seems to be the whole word right now.
gator70 on January 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Unless it’s designed to buy them time for further operations.
“See, we’re engaging in talks to end all of this!”
Meanwhile they’ll continue their offensive. It removes the public’s pressure to begin talks towards a ceasefire without having to immediately end their strikes.
amerpundit on January 7, 2009 at 11:47 AM
One would hope that this is a red herring.
brtex on January 7, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Can’t help but wonder why other muslim and arab countries don’t take these people in.
Oh, right, they’re trash.
freedom_nut on January 7, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Israel didn’t survive by taking the easy way out, let’s hope they are there to the finish.
OT: If you haven’t seen the footage on FOX from the anti-Israel rally in Florida, you should. If you ever needed areason to want Israel to succeed in every way, this would be it.
Bishop on January 7, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Sounds more like Israel is just going through the motions of Diplomacy without actually committing to anything binding in a PR exercise designed to take off some of the heat from the international community and allowing them to continue on with their operation.
Dreadnought223 on January 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Oh, right, they’re trash.
freedom_nut on January 7, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Heh, right on brother. The usual method is to take the trash out, not bring it in.
The other muslim nations see the truth; they don’t want a population of psycopathic whiners, self centered crackpots and knee-jerk murderers living within their borders either.
Bishop on January 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
I suspect that it’s a trap set by IDF; they’re going to be watching Hamas move things into what will become new targets.
htom on January 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
The pressure is also coming from the Orthodox Church, especially the Antiochian jurisdiction. Pretty amazing how some Christians are willing to side with the likes of Hamas over the Joooos.
Israel needs to get this done, now.
Hening on January 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Given that the cabinet approved the IDF continuing the operation about two hours after it issued a ‘clarification’ of what it was accepting (which is far less than what the BBC described), I would say that this is far from over.
And yes, I believe some kind of limited occupation of Gaza - just to make sure there’s no more shooting - is possible at the end of the day. Two or three rockets a day can ruin your live as much as twenty.
Carl in Jerusalem on January 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html
think this was organized by Stormfront? they are big in Florida right?
jp on January 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Or they can leave it a smoking pile of ruins, and simply say, “Thanks for having us over, sure hope we don’t have to come back again.”
juanito on January 7, 2009 at 12:12 PM
IDF should point to the successes in Iraq , give it a surge.
the_nile on January 7, 2009 at 12:12 PM
I said it yesterday, I’ll say it again…my worst childhood nightmare has come true. I feel as though I am re-living the horror my relatives lived in Poland 1938.
Shame on my fellow Jews that protest this war…they are the modern day Cappos in my eyes!
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM
“restore the authority of the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in Gaza”
how crappy is one’s strategic situation when THAT is considered an acceptable operational goal?!
Buckaroo on January 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
i have. and it is, indeed, revolting. Around the world, rallies are become indistinguishable from riots and looking more like arab countries day by day. Common denominators? American-hating americans and Islamists. And, it is a propaganda war. You can thank 911 truthers for the cauldron of derangement on the left linking arms with “oppressed” Muslims now. ‘preciate that, guys…
Mommypundit on January 7, 2009 at 12:22 PM
“jp on January 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM”
they quote an a.n.s.w.e.r. puke in the story, i would presume they had a hand in it at least.
/i just LOVE how said puke tries to minimize this vile woman’s shouts, but IN THE SAME BREATH froths about “racist and brutal zionism” …
//beyond hope …
Buckaroo on January 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Flatten these bastards who hide behind women and children. These “men” are worthless creatures who should be supporting their families and not subjecting them to retaliation for the actions of their blood-thirsty (but economically lazy) sires.
clnurnberg on January 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Meanwhile an Iranian student group placed an ad in Fars, an Iranian newspaper, to sssassinate Egypt’s Mubarek.
Hamas’s aggression is surely driven by Iran. The world press needs to tune in to the underlying factor in this conflict in Gaza, for a resolution in Gaza will not end the aims of Hamas vis a vis Israel.
onlineanalyst on January 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167296078&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
The above is a link to the Iranian student plot.
onlineanalyst on January 7, 2009 at 12:27 PM
No truce until they produce Shalit or his remains. Enough of their crap.
Blake on January 7, 2009 at 12:27 PM
You gotta figure that Israel had a lot of information at the start of the attack on the locations of Hamas’s power structures, leaders, ammunition caches, manufacturing spots, etc. As the battle goes on, this information diminishes as the targets get blown up or moved somewhere else, to where it reaches a point of diminishing returns on further attacks. I don’t know if that point has been reached yet, but Israel must know it has to happen sometime, and they have to start thinking about the next step. These negotiations may be part of that next step. Hopefully, their top priority will be to embarrass the organizations who were supposed to be insuring Hamas didn’t re-arm and get some effective oversight in there for a change. (Yeah, I know: Fat chance. But what else can they do?)
Socratease on January 7, 2009 at 12:27 PM
It is horrific. I agree. A simple search shows how marginalized and persecuted jews have been, even before Nazi Germany. Nazis put teeth where other regimes/powers/persons did not. Islam is a worldwide cultic scourge and is bent on the eradication of the Jewish state and, ultimately, any other dissenter. Christians, certainly. People cannot see this because of spiritual blindness, I have to assume. That anyone cannot connect the dots NOW, after (at least) 911 and all the subsequent attacks, provocation, concessions, death of Great Britain, France, and others…is…either of spiritual nature, neanderthal level of comprehension, or complicity.
Mommypundit on January 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Obliterate them all.
Mommypundit on January 7, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Sort of kidding.
Mommypundit on January 7, 2009 at 12:29 PM
They gain information all along by people they capture and other deals etc.
the_nile on January 7, 2009 at 12:34 PM
I beg everyone to go to weaselzippers.net on a regular bsis…he is reporting all the attacks Jews are encountering WORLDWIDE! The media is not reporting this..where is the outrage from the liberals/media? If this stuff were happening to Muslims, it would lead the news everywhere…after 9-11, no such incidents happened (except the idiot that killed a seik) but all we heard was how any attacks would be racist and not tolerated!
I think the liberal world hates the Jews..including the liberal Jews!
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Turn over Gilad Shalit to Israel or the annihilation continues. F the French
Andy in Agoura Hills on January 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Yep. +1.
Andy in Agoura Hills on January 7, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Living with Kassams
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 12:46 PM
“Turn over Gilad Shalit”
one does hope that is a primary topic of any dicsussion …
Buckaroo on January 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Did you say yesterday that you live in Israel? My cousin is still in the reserves there, but he is in intelligence, not combat. I’d love to get updates from an Israeli! The video is informative and I have sent it to my list…
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 12:51 PM
The surge in Iraq worked because most of the population did not support the Jihadists or their goals.
That can’t be said for Gaza.
MarkTheGreat on January 7, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Mommypundit on January 7, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I miss the old days when patriotic Americans would meet these savages face to face and scatter them like chaff.
Bishop on January 7, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Typing to you from Jerusalem, our people’s eternal capital city! ;)
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Fantastic!!! I wish I had retained Hebrew from Hebrew school, but I guess my brain only has room for 2 languages at a time, and Spanish is almost a necessity ):
Are there sirens where you are? Have many Israelis fled to your area?
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM
May I also recommend the terrific work of litttlegreenfootballs.com!
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM
The notion of Israel feeling pressure to cease fire now reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Black Knight.
Indeed, is Hamas going to bite their legs off?
Jaibones on January 7, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Here is an interesting article from Defence Tech.org that suggests that the Israelis have done thier homework this time and are well prepared for the operation thay are now conducting in Gaza.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004620.html
Dreadnought223 on January 7, 2009 at 1:10 PM
So where is the Hamas leadership and why haven’t the Israelis eliminated that problem?
As long as there are people leading the Hamas and Fatah has not re-taken the leadership of Gaza this is just another non-solution by the Israelis.
Or was all just another “we’ve got elections coming up soon in Israel” poliical stunt?
No victory; just attack, ceasefire, retreat and repeat ad nauseum.
albill on January 7, 2009 at 1:12 PM
We’re still around and I will be more than happy to take this to the streets if needed. I have grown tired of muslims spitting in our faces. I have grown tired of people bowing to muslims out of fear of offending them. The female muslim screaming about “ovens” is the last straw for me. Screw em. My tolerence for these easily led sheep has ended. The way I see it, it’s us or them. I pray our leaders see the light before it’s too late. I won’t hold my breathe.
gator70 on January 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM
When the Nazs sent thousands of those V2 rockets into Britain, the response was to flatten and firebomb Germany’s cities, even though they were filled with German civiians.
The result was Allied victory.
General Curtis LeMay never worried about “proportionate” response when he saved the world from Naziism.
And he was right.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Remember that little nuke-plant in Syria that is no more.
IDF has sharpened up a bit since Lebanon 2006.
the_nile on January 7, 2009 at 1:27 PM
In Jerusalem? No. There were missile range maps all over the blogs last week. Look up Gedera on an Israel map. They received a hit yesterday or the day before. Miraculously, one 3 month old very lightly injured from shattered glass.
A lot of people from the immediate cities surrounding Gaza (Sderot, Netivot, Ashkelon) are seeking respite by people outside of those areas. We were going to host a family but they got invited by friends of theirs elsewhere.
Many people travel down to towns like Sderot to do their shopping there in support of the town.
In addition, many people from those areas travel around, selling their wares elsewhere.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 1:30 PM
I think that Israel is just making some nicey-nice words to placate the French - ie, Sarkozy -, who want to appear far more useful than they really are. But the Israelis are not leaving Gaza under these conditions. Hamas has the rockets now to hit Dimona, and immediate reaction to that event would be going east, to Iran, at a high trajectory and at about 6000 MPH. I’m sure Sarko heard this from the Israelis.
I only wish that Israel just announced the real objective here was to destroy Hamas. There really is no other alternative.
PM Netanyahu is coming, in my opinion…
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 1:30 PM
From Debka:
“Hamas appears to have stocked Iran-made Fajr rockets capable of hitting central Israeli towns, such as Rehovot and Rishon Lezion, 16 km short of Tel Aviv”.
There should be no cessation of anything until the main stockpiles are destroyed and the remaining leaders assassinated.
Those Fajrs are up in Lebanon now (the launchers were destroyed during deployment in 2006), and could hit Tel Aviv proper. Imagine a rocket hitting one of the high rises.
So Tel Aviv is now in double jeopardy.
Thanks, Kadima!
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Great flick! “Bet your gay!” (final Black knight words)
YES!
Good news..people want to know why we Jews are so successful as a people.. the answer is in your post..we support each other when times are good and when times are not (except the disgusting liberal among us).
An early “Shabbat Shalom” to you and TexasJew if I a unable to blog tomorrow.
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I sure as hell hope so! His piece today is right on target (pardon the pun)
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:42 PM
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM
A bit early, but thanks! And same here.
I actually think that the Hebrew that is most relevant here for all of us (and especially our relatives in ha’aretz Yisroal is “chazak v’ematz”.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 1:46 PM
TexasJew, first I always take Debka reports with a lump of salt. Second, the bigger the missile, the harder to funnel thru the tunnel. Third, Olmert & Co. didn’t care enough when it was only the poor people of Sderot and surroundings being pounded. It took hits to Ashkelon and Ashdod to get the government to react and the reaction is at time ridiculous. Advanced warnings. Close quarters combat. Humanitarian time outs, etc.
However, I think that if a Fajr were fired, even idiot Olmert would escalate the level of destruction inflicted on Gaza, hopefully flattening it for once and for all and capturing a good chunk of it, claiming permanent sovereignty on such areas.
If I were in charge, I would have done this - and more - years ago. But nobody asks me. :(
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM
They should…Israel would be better off today.
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Watching on Israel channel 2 now how the workers in Be’er Sheva’s Soroka Hospital organized schooling for all of their children within the hospital.
Here’s another TV notice: IDF intel is now talking about possible missile attacks against Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. This just reported 30 seconds ago.
Gotta check out our building’s shelter.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Does anyone know why the Christians stopped killing the muslims during the crusades? Was it politics back then?
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM
“They may want to smooth the path to restore the authority of the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in Gaza after three years of Hamas rule, at a time when Gazans may finally welcome the change.”
And Fatah might now be better trained and equipped than they were before and better able to throttle Hamas should they attempt another coup in the strip. I believe Fatah has been getting quite a bit weapons and training, some even from the US and might now be in a better organizational state to maintain their control than they were three years ago.
crosspatch on January 7, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Stay safe!
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Correct. US armed and trained Islamic terrorists.
For joy!
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Latest: IAF is now massively bombarding Rafiah/Philly corridor area.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:07 PM
First pics on TV of dozens of captured Hamas terrorists, suitable for interrogation and summary execution, the latter being wishful thinking.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:09 PM
If you never read another blog…read this one.
An Israeli Mother gives her pespective on who is responsible for what is happening in Gaza. It’ll tear at your heart. Be forewarned.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Well, to be fair, I don’t believe we have seen rockets or suicide bombers from the West Bank for quite a while. But I admit that I might have missed it as I don’t tend to follow the news from Israel very closely.
crosspatch on January 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM
However, I think that if a Fajr were fired, even idiot Olmert would escalate the level of destruction inflicted on Gaza, hopefully flattening it for once and for all and capturing a good chunk of it, claiming permanent sovereignty on such areas.
If I were in charge, I would have done this - and more - years ago. But nobody asks me. :(
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM
I agree totally. But I am not sanguine about there not being some nasty surprises in Hamas’ inventory, including some Fajrs. The Egyptian border guards are totally corrupt.
And Hizbollah does have Fajrs and launchers and they’re still walking around free and winning elections up in Lebanon.
Hamas’ inverntory has got to be catalogued and destroyed, or this is just an academic exercise possibly leading to Holocaust II.
And would an Israeli PM actually let loose with its own massive inventory - I’m not even talking about the Atomic (and probably Hydrogen) gamechangers that it has.
Israel had massive stores of Napalm in ‘67 and ‘73 (combat friends of mine saw the telltale purple clinkers around lots of burned-up Egyptians). Should these weapons be put on the table again if Israel is brutally attacked and fighting for its life? I hope so.., but its leaders seem pathetically weak. Can you imagine Begin allowing rockets hitting kindergartens for months and months and doing nothing?
Politically, Israel seems to lull itself with fairytales, until all hell breaks loose. But that seems to be true of most of us Jews.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Latest: IAF is now massively bombarding Rafiah/Philly corridor area.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Good. That damn area should be an ashtray.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM
That’s only because Abu Mazzen has half a brain, while Olmert and Barak have none.
The weapons are being cached there, though slightly harder to smuggle in. They are enjoying idiotic Israeli and US support because they are “moderates”.
Yeh. We’ll find out.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Well, to be fair, I don’t believe we have seen rockets or suicide bombers from the West Bank for quite a while. But I admit that I might have missed it as I don’t tend to follow the news from Israel very closely.
crosspatch on January 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Because:
1) The Israelsi built a wall that the Leftists now want torn down (the “poor Palestinians!”), and
2) The IDF is in control of the West Bank.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Actually, it should be a moat.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:26 PM
This is great…. thanks for updates..
beththebaker on January 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM
I tend to agree with John Bolton on the Gaza solution and give the damn place to Egypt because until they accept their collusion in this and that’s what it really comes down to, Egypt needs to be held accountable for allowing the smuggling of weapons into Gaza. If Egypt was held accountable for what Hamas did in Gaza, they would be motivated to actually do more than photo-ops and lip-service. I don’t think Eygpt would want to be put on the list of terror sponsors by the USA.
Texas Gal on January 7, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Please read the article “A Soldier’s Mother” which is linked from Hot Air if you have any doubt as to what Hamas is up to. Any organization that uses human shields is indefensible.
http://israelisoldiersmother.blogspot.com/2009/01/images-they-show.html
DL13 on January 7, 2009 at 2:48 PM
You are right. I linked that 5 or 6 posts back. It’s reality for sure.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Bolton has never been so wrong. Rebuttals:
Bolton’s static world
And this really nails it:
THE THREE CARD MONTY OPTION
I have never heard Bolton so far fetched before. It was actually depressing to read Bolton’s opinion piece, coming from him.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:53 PM
The female muslim screaming about “ovens” is the last straw for me. Screw em. My tolerence for these easily led sheep has ended. The way I see it, it’s us or them. I pray our leaders see the light before it’s too late. I won’t hold my breathe.
gator70 on January 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Yes sir, I join you in that sentiment and I sincerely hope that there soon comes a day when these thugs and savages on our streets are confronted and shunted back to their pits.
Bishop on January 7, 2009 at 2:58 PM
I have never heard Bolton so far fetched before. It was actually depressing to read Bolton’s opinion piece, coming from him.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 2:53 PM
What you may be missing here is the 900-pound bear in the room.
The Palestinians for some strange reason, whether it be societal, behavioral, neurological or simply due to eating too much free food from the EU, seem to be totally incapable of producing a free, peaceful and productive state.
They have been given billions and billions of dollars, weapons, and educational gimmes and they still seem to yearn for violence and attacks on their neighbots while producing nothing but bombs and misery. How many things in the homes of other nations have things produced in Palestine? While Israel prospers and produces technology, medicine and goods for their fellow men, the Palestinians produce almost nothing of value, except some agricultural products. Of, and Qassams.
No people on earth have been given so much and have done so little good with it.
It’s time to pull the plug on the entire 2-state solution malarkey and let an actual government and society govern them like the idiot children they behave like.
Like Golda Meir said over 40 years ago, “The Palestinians have a state. it’s called Jordan”.
Well, its 2009, and they still are living in their own squalor and psychotic fantasies. Let’s stop candycoating this sociopathic culture.
As we say, “the proof is in the kugel”.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 3:35 PM
That’s not so bad if we’re talking potato. But if we’re talking lukshen………………
What Golda Meir meant was that the Arabs can leave to Jordan for all she cared, not that Jordan can come back to Judea and Samaria.
Transfer.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 3:48 PM
To repeat what Carl of IsraelMatzav wrote about Jordan:
Then there’s Jordan. In Jordan, as in Egypt, the tourism is all one way: From Israel to Jordan. If King Abdullah comes to Israel at all, it’s in secret. In Jordan, professionals who do business with Israel are ostracized from their trade unions. Recall the incident last year when an Israeli journalist was expelled from a press conference with a Lebanese singer in Amman because he was Israeli. And one week ago today, the Israeli flag was burned in the Jordanian parliament. These aren’t isolated instances. They reflect the Jordanian psyche.
In Jordan, as in Egypt, peace was made with one man - King Hussein - and not with a people. The Jordanian people have no interest in peace with Israel.
But most importantly, like Egypt, the Jordanian regime is not a rock of stability. Jordan is 70% ‘Palestinian.’ Jordan is an undemocratic state that is a coup d’etat waiting to happen. And when it happens, the battle cry will be “itabach al-Yahud,” kill the Jews.
Israel cannot give up its security based on the assumption of the stability of the Egyptian and Jordanian regimes.
Worst of all, John Bolton has gone the way of the State Department and suddenly believes (apparently) that our conflict is about land, and not about Israel’s existence as a Jewish state on the Jewish homeland. And that’s the saddest thing of all.
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Shy Guy on January 7, 2009 at 3:48 PM
The premise is correct: the Palestinians will never have a real and well-managed state.
At least, if Palestinians are running it.
The truth hurts.
Anything else is just being “mealy-mouthed”, as we say down here in Texas.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 3:56 PM
I don’t agree with Bolton about the West Bank. I think that has a better potential of getting under control. At the least, I’d let them have a chance to make a go of it rather than throw away all that has been done thus far.
But IMHO making Egypt responsible for what goes on in Gaza seems to me to be the best solution. Call their bluff. Egypt is pretending to be the peace broker for the Arabs and keeping this situation going by allowing the smuggling of weapons only keeps Egypt on top of that pedestal. I’d tell them either they take Gaza or no more USA aid for Egypt and when they get Gaza under control, the USA aid will start again.
Israel should have claimed sovereignty over all the territory long ago. Surely you can see that this battle is eventually going to end and nothing is really going to be accomplished unless Hamas is driven out and that is not likely to happen. This is just a battle in a long war that will cripple Hamas for a while, but they will be back.
Either it’s about land or about Israel’s right to exist. And if it’s not about land, then give the land and the problem to Egypt. Then when Hamas starts firing rockets at you, the USA will be knocking on Mubarak’s door instead of Abbas.
Yeah and I agree with TexasJew, Israel will never have peace with Gaza in Palestinian hands. They need a babysitter who has a lot to lose when that baby throws tantrums.
Texas Gal on January 7, 2009 at 4:09 PM
I think the “peace talks ” is a great PR move by Israel. They will attend conferences until they are finished in Gaza. This way they can continue combat operations under the umbrella of ongoing peace talks. Israel will just drag it out as long as necessary.
Guardian on January 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Peace without Hamas … well, that’s a good way to demand surrender without using the word.
njcommuter on January 7, 2009 at 7:59 PM