obviously-made-up bullshit like “1 SUV wastes more oil per year than 3 full size cars.

SUV’s use 40% more fuel than average passenger cars, they use about 65% more than my non-hybrid Civic. Not to mention that the engine on an SUV requires twice the amount of oil that the engine on a normal 4 cylinder passenger vehicle. In addition to that, passenger cars have a transaxle (if automatic) that is lubricated by transmission fluid. An SUV with 4wd uses gear oil for the front differential, the rear differential, and the transfer case. Some SUVs require non-synthetic gear oil. Add that all up, and it’s right at or just over 3 of my cars to your 1 SUV in oil use.

leetpriest on January 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM

Evidence of a lapse of intellectual integrity, this.

Leetpriest’s original claim was “more oil than three FULL SIZE CARS.” As soon as he’s challenged, he swaps to 40% more (which is 1.4x, not 3x) than an AVERAGE sized car, which is not a full size car, and mentions his Civic, which is a sub-compact car, not a full size car. He says the crankcase holds 2x (not 3x) more than his sub-compact (not a full-sized car.) Then he starts spluttering about gear oil, which get changed once if at all in the lifetime of a car, and thus barely has any impact at all, statistically speaking, on overall oil usage, even if the size of the gear housing is humongous, which it isn’t.

In other words, I was right. His original claim was obviously-made-up bullshit. He admits it simply by trying to defend it.

Leet, son, you really do have a lot more credibility if you simply say “Ok, I was exaggerating, sorry.” Learn from this.

A little play on words for you there, but you did start with the petty fucker and impotence comment. Take a shot at me, I’ll take four or five at you. I’m sure you’re aware of how that works.

I do know how it works, only I wasn’t the one who made the comment about impotence or called you petty. That’s the problem with eye-for-eye retribution, the collateral damage can get ugly.

I agree we need to suck it up until we get the last drop. If we don’t have another world war in the next few years, we’ll undergo a nice big population increase. So in my or my kids lifetime? Maybe not, but it doesn’t hurt to be ahead of the curve.

No need to suck the last drop, especially since so much oil (about half) gets turned into nifty plastics and jet fuel. We’re really already way, way ahead of the curve, looking into fuel cells and nuclear fusion as we are. Those will come into common use as soon as they make economic sense. This is the part so many enviros simply don’t understand; there’s no conspiracy to suppress alternatives, they’re just less efficient so far. As soon as something comes along that truly makes economic sense, we’ll all abandon oil overnight. No force will be necessary.

Just looked around online to see if maybe more 8 or even 9-passenger minivans have come out since I was in the market. The Honda Odyssey still has a “third” itty-bitty seat you can stick in the middle of the second row to bring you up to 8, and Toyota has a Sienna 8-passenger. There may be a few others out there, but I just loved this gem in a review on epinions:

The 8th seat in the Sienna is almost a real seat, with integrated seatbelt, LATCH and reasonable width for an adult or almost any child restraint. The Honda PlusOne seat might fit some child restraints and small adults, but may not work well with larger carseats or adults. On the plus side (sorry for the pun), it does stow away nicely, though you do lose the lazy susan if you store it in the floor. My wife appreciated the PlusOne system more than I did. Our son (almost 7) fit just fine in it using a Britax Starriser backless booster.

Yeah, I’ll get right on trading in for one of these.
sarc/

Obama’s whole argument about gaz-guzzling SUVs has a most serious flaw in it:

I thought the serious flaw was that he travels about in a vast caravan of gas-guzzling SUVs.

Yes, I know he has reasons. So do I.

unlike most European and Japanese-made vehicles, which have manual available, yet if they are sold in the US, it’s usually only the automatic ones

Agree and I prefer manual. My four cylinder Jetta has a good amount of zip because it’s a manual and it’s easier to control when it gets icy.

Unfortunately, a gear shift gets in the way of cell phone use, eating burgers, texting people and drinking out of the Big Gulp and it’s a pain in traffic.

State licensing requirements are so lax, that people can barely drive as it is. Automatic transmissions make it easier on them.

I think it’s time to start demanding manual transmission for more American-made SUVs and vans.

I would buy another manual transmission car of any model, for one thing, they’re cheaper. But I don’t think the demand would be there for them, which is why they’re rarely offered. You can barely get a compact anymore that’s manual.

I think it’s time to demand that more American-made vehicles start to use manual transmission. Vans, for example, could use it. Take a look at the Citroen Jumpy, for example. It has a 5-speed manual gearbox. Manual transmission is better for when you’re travelling across slopes and hilly areas. I think that’s what American SUVs need now. There are some American cars that are starting to use manual (the Chevy Aveo and the Chrysler PT Cruiser), but even SUVs and vans big and small need it too. I think it’s time to start demanding manual transmission for more American-made SUVs and vans.

I just came up with a great reason to love my SUV.

Because it pisses off self-righteous, preachy, know-it-all, environmental prigs like you.

This is just classic:

So next time you get in a wreck with your suburban, and your kids fly out of the window and the retarded middle-aged hussie driving the other useless SUV (while simultaneously texting her husband that’s cheating on her that she’s on her way home from martini drinking with all the other unhappy wives of investment bankers) that your “oh so safe” SUV plowed into tips over onto your kids and turns them into freeway pancakes, maybe you’ll figure it out.

Wouldn’t you just love to run the world and tell us all how to live our lives, down to what toothpaste we brush our teeth with at night.

Well, it’s not happening. I suggest you “Accept the things you cannot change.”

Are you seriously arguing that a 2wd minivan will go down a snowy highway as well as a 4wd SUV?

Some minivans come with a bench in the front. Most minivans have 2 front seats and 2 rows of back seats, seating 3 to a row. Do the math, genius.

leetpriest on January 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM

I’ve looked at several minivans and SUVs over the years. Don’t remember ever seeing a 3-across bench in front on a minivan, from Dodge caravan infancy to today.

Can you name one?

Back two rows- usually 2 seats in the middle row, 3 in back.

2+2+3=7, at least in the math classes I went to. Some minivans do have 3-wide seating in the middle- if your butt is the size of an 8-year old and you love the feel of your brother’s elbow in your ribcage.

BTW, there are more minivans than SUVs in the parking lot at work- and even more cars. “Coolness” isn’t really a factor here.

Apparently Ed has never heard of the free market. Heaven forbid people should buy some American products from the hated Detroit, my home town. Stuff it buddy.

echosyst on January 8, 2009 at 2:35 AM

Apparently you and your city have never heard of a free market either. In a free market, the government doesn’t bail an entity out that’s failing.

Tell your hometown to start making affordable cars that match the competition.

leetpriest on January 7, 2009 at 7:42 PM

In a free country, economics is a major factor in the purchase of an automobile. The Europeans drive small cars because fuel is in the ten dollar per gallon range and in part because many roads are so narrow. Of course, the reason that fuel is so expensive is because of the exorbinate amount of taxes on the fuel.

Minivan vs. SUV impact, IMO, SUV wins. More mass, higher bumpers, etc.

More mass = greater impact. I wouldn’t call that safe. As I mentioned before, you’ve got a significantly greater chance to tip over in an SUV.

So next time you get in a wreck with your suburban, and your kids fly out of the window and the retarded middle-aged hussie driving the other useless SUV (while simultaneously texting her husband that’s cheating on her that she’s on her way home from martini drinking with all the other unhappy wives of investment bankers) that your “oh so safe” SUV plowed into tips over onto your kids and turns them into freeway pancakes, maybe you’ll figure it out.

But probably not, because what will all your buddies at work think if you’re not cool like them with their SUVs.

As to minivans & seating capacity- almost no minivans have 8 seats like my suburban (most have 7, I often need 8). Some fullsize SUVs will seat 9, if you go for the bench in front.

Some minivans come with a bench in the front. Most minivans have 2 front seats and 2 rows of back seats, seating 3 to a row. Do the math, genius.

Also, minivans don’t have the snow traction of a nice big 4wd truck. As it’s my money, I’ll buy what I want that meets my needs.

cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 11:31 PM

So you intend to go offroading in the snow? I guess most of the rest of the country just offroads in snow all day, making the SUV an ultra-necessity, right? Wrong! Driving on ice and compacted snow with 2 independent axles is exactly the same as driving on ice and compacted snow with 1 independent axle/transaxle. Unless you have tire chains on, there is no such thing as “traction” on ice and compacted snow. Anyone that’s ever driven a HMMWV (which takes a crap on your suburban in terms of traction) can attest to this.

Not to mention the fact that when you slide in an SUV whatever you hit (unless you’re lucky enough not to tip over) will be hit much harder than if you were sliding in a little tiny passenger car.

Kralizec on January 8, 2009 at 3:02 AM

Not quite true. You left out one important thing. Actually, suddenly credit is available again. The car companies are giving away the SUVs it’s true. It is also true most SUV production has been halted. It’s going to be get a small car or nothing unless you want a van or truck. Vans and trucks are earmarked for extinction by the new cafe standards. Meanwhile in the rest of the world pollution reigns supreme. What we are doing here with cafe standards is insane. What we are doing with oil drilling is insane. What we are doing with Nuclear power plants is insane. What we are doing with coal plants is insane. Energy is the backbone of our civilzation. It we keep this up we’ll be going back to the stone age.

We have more oil right here in the US than all the known reserves of the 12 largest oil-producing nations combined — and practically none of it is reflected in current oil reserve figures. Just the Piceance Basin alone, in Colorado, would double known oil reserves worldwide if it were counted. The technology to obtain it without grinding up the Rocky Mountains is just around the corner (Shell has a pilot plant that’s extracting shale oil in situ at $25/bbl.) And that’s just us. The Athabaskan shales in Canada have as much oil as the entire Saudi oil field. Venezuela has another massive oil shale deposit. None of this shows up in oil reserve figures.

The notion that we have to rush to get away from using fossil fuels is pure, unadulterated hocum, foisted on the credulous and the ignorant to scare us into joining World Socialism. Oil remains the cheapest, most plentiful source of power on the planet, and its use continues to make economic sense, and will continue to do so for quite a while.

philwynk on January 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM

When people say something like “we’re running out of oil” I always wonder what their smoking.

Lesson not learned: SUV sales outpace sedans

Events aren’t lessons; they’re just events. They don’t come engraved with the lessons you attach to them.

When gas prices skyrocketed on global demand for energy, Americans began looking for fuel-efficient bargains in new vehicle sales. …Apparently, the lesson didn’t last long.

You write as if it was the same Americans who were looking for a new vehicle in each case, and as if the only difference between the two sets of circumstances was the price of gasoline. Have you considered that one reason some of the SUVs have regained some of their popularity is that they’re now, suddenly, much cheaper than they used to be?

Then why not get a minivan? They’re lighter, have smaller tires, and have a smaller engine, thus giving them better gas mileage. They’re far less expensive, and have equal or sometimes more seats. They’re far safer than an SUV due to the center of balance being higher on an SUV, allowing it to have a greater tendency to tip over. They just don’t look cool. They’re just not “in”.

leetpriest on January 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM

Minivan vs. SUV impact, IMO, SUV wins. More mass, higher bumpers, etc.

As to minivans & seating capacity- almost no minivans have 8 seats like my suburban (most have 7, I often need 8). Some fullsize SUVs will seat 9, if you go for the bench in front.

Also, minivans don’t have the snow traction of a nice big 4wd truck. As it’s my money, I’ll buy what I want that meets my needs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090107/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices_37

Oh look, oil is down to $44/barrel. Reserves are up, and companies are leasing tankers to store crude at sea.

What’s that about “$7 gas?”

cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Israel vs. Hamas, OPEC production cut threats, possible Iraq withdraw followed by possible invasion and takeover by Iran or Al Queda.

All it takes is the right chain of events.

Oh, I forgot to mention: $7 a gallon gasoline? Using up all the resources available on the globe? Not going to happen, not in your lifetime, or your kids’ lifetimes, or their kids’ lifetimes. Not unless the Democrats keep control.

We have more oil right here in the US than all the known reserves of the 12 largest oil-producing nations combined — and practically none of it is reflected in current oil reserve figures. Just the Piceance Basin alone, in Colorado, would double known oil reserves worldwide if it were counted. The technology to obtain it without grinding up the Rocky Mountains is just around the corner (Shell has a pilot plant that’s extracting shale oil in situ at $25/bbl.) And that’s just us. The Athabaskan shales in Canada have as much oil as the entire Saudi oil field. Venezuela has another massive oil shale deposit. None of this shows up in oil reserve figures.

The notion that we have to rush to get away from using fossil fuels is pure, unadulterated hocum, foisted on the credulous and the ignorant to scare us into joining World Socialism. Oil remains the cheapest, most plentiful source of power on the planet, and its use continues to make economic sense, and will continue to do so for quite a while.

philwynk on January 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM

I agree we need to suck it up until we get the last drop. If we don’t have another world war in the next few years, we’ll undergo a nice big population increase. So in my or my kids lifetime? Maybe not, but it doesn’t hurt to be ahead of the curve. I’m not especially worried about the resource being clean, but a little more concerned with it being renewable, cheap, and not made from food.

obviously-made-up bullshit like “1 SUV wastes more oil per year than 3 full size cars.

SUV’s use 40% more fuel than average passenger cars, they use about 65% more than my non-hybrid Civic. Not to mention that the engine on an SUV requires twice the amount of oil that the engine on a normal 4 cylinder passenger vehicle. In addition to that, passenger cars have a transaxle (if automatic) that is lubricated by transmission fluid. An SUV with 4wd uses gear oil for the front differential, the rear differential, and the transfer case. Some SUVs require non-synthetic gear oil. Add that all up, and it’s right at or just over 3 of my cars to your 1 SUV in oil use.

And what the hell do you know about anybody’s penis, when all you can see is the same sans-serif font we all use???

Actually, when I type in the text box on HA, it’s displayed as the Courier New font, which does indeed have serifs. But that’s neither here nor there. I know as much about your penis as you do mine. A little play on words for you there, but you did start with the petty fucker and impotence comment. Take a shot at me, I’ll take four or five at you. I’m sure you’re aware of how that works.

People want to drive cars that are comfortable and safe and have room for their families, and since auto manufacturers are not permitted to control the mix of their automobile fleets, they’ve resorted to making trucks.

Then why not get a minivan? They’re lighter, have smaller tires, and have a smaller engine, thus giving them better gas mileage. They’re far less expensive, and have equal or sometimes more seats. They’re far safer than an SUV due to the center of balance being higher on an SUV, allowing it to have a greater tendency to tip over. They just don’t look cool. They’re just not “in”.

If you want to get mad at somebody over SUVs, get mad at Democrats.

philwynk on January 7, 2009 at 10:19 PM

My anger is appropriately placed, but I agree that there are far more Obama stickers on the back of some hybrid pinko SUV. If people were all a little more fiscally aware, the SUV wouldn’t survive

leetpriest on January 7, 2009 at 7:42 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention: $7 a gallon gasoline? Using up all the resources available on the globe? Not going to happen, not in your lifetime, or your kids’ lifetimes, or their kids’ lifetimes. Not unless the Democrats keep control.

We have more oil right here in the US than all the known reserves of the 12 largest oil-producing nations combined — and practically none of it is reflected in current oil reserve figures. Just the Piceance Basin alone, in Colorado, would double known oil reserves worldwide if it were counted. The technology to obtain it without grinding up the Rocky Mountains is just around the corner (Shell has a pilot plant that’s extracting shale oil in situ at $25/bbl.) And that’s just us. The Athabaskan shales in Canada have as much oil as the entire Saudi oil field. Venezuela has another massive oil shale deposit. None of this shows up in oil reserve figures.

The notion that we have to rush to get away from using fossil fuels is pure, unadulterated hocum, foisted on the credulous and the ignorant to scare us into joining World Socialism. Oil remains the cheapest, most plentiful source of power on the planet, and its use continues to make economic sense, and will continue to do so for quite a while.

Oh look, oil is down to $44/barrel. Reserves are up, and companies are leasing tankers to store crude at sea.

What’s that about “$7 gas?”

1) Hardly anybody understands why the price of oil went up like it did, nor why it went down like it did. They’re not going to make decisions based on sensible economics because they don’t understand economics.

2) Gas prices are not really part of the equation when one’s buying a car. Gas MILAGE is, but it’s secondary to comfort and safety, especially if one has the kind of income that can afford a $30K vehicle. Gas prices come into the equation when they become enough of a factor to cause pain — and they leave the equation just as quickly when the pain subsides. We simply take the affordability of gasoline for granted, because it’s always been affordable.

leetpriest on January 7, 2009 at 7:42 PM

You know, if you’re going to have a discussion you really ought to stick to things that are provable and sensible, and avoid outright, obviously-made-up bullshit like “1 SUV wastes more oil per year than 3 full size cars.” That’s not even plausible. And what the hell do you know about anybody’s penis, when all you can see is the same sans-serif font we all use???

Personally, I hate driving behind SUVs, and it ticks me off when I have to wait while some middle-aged woman who can’t even handle a Civic properly tries to maneuver her behemoth truck into a parking space. However, the reason we have to put up with them is CAFE standards. People want to drive cars that are comfortable and safe and have room for their families, and since auto manufacturers are not permitted to control the mix of their automobile fleets, they’ve resorted to making trucks. I had four kids; you cannot fit four kids into a Civic. You can barely fit two kids into a Civic, and it’s truly uncomfortable when you’re on a road trip. If you want to get mad at somebody over SUVs, get mad at Democrats.