Lesson not learned: SUV sales outpace sedans
posted at 1:47 pm on January 6, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
When gas prices skyrocketed on global demand for energy, Americans began looking for fuel-efficient bargains in new vehicle sales. Analysts predicted that the price shock would resonate with buyers even after the oil bubble popped and prices declined to reasonable levels. Apparently, the lesson didn’t last long:
It looks like the Highlander is in and the Prius is out — for now at least.
Trucks and sport utility vehicles will outsell cars for the first time since February, according to a December report by Edmunds.com, which tracks industry statistics.
“Despite all the public discussion of fuel efficiency, SUVs and trucks are the industry’s biggest sellers right now as a remarkable number of buyers seem to be compelled by three factors: great deals, low gas prices and winter weather,” said Michelle Krebs of AutoObserver.com, a division of Edmunds.com, in a prepared statement.
“It was this summer that customers were concerned about the gas mileage. It hasn’t been a topic of conversation lately,” said Dave Lawson, the general sales manager at Pomoco Chrysler Jeep Dodge in Newport News. The majority of Pomoco’s inventory is SUVs, and its best-selling models are minivans.
That may be good news in the short run for domestic automakers, which bet heavily against smaller models, but in the long run will provide another opportunity for price shocks to American consumers. Oil has dropped to levels not seen in years, but that’s not due to massive new amounts of petroleum reserves. The commodity trading has sharply declined due to a much lower demand caused by the global economic recession, and it’s not likely to last. When economies begin recovering, energy demand will increase, and we will almost certainly see a return to $3 per gallon gasoline within a year, two years at the outside — unless we massively increase American production and refining during that time.
Why do consumers gravitate towards the bigger, less efficient models? It’s not because Americans like to spend money on gasoline. Smaller, lighter models are less safe, which is one of the reasons people resisted the CAFE standards increase that Democrats pushed through Congress last session. Winters, especially hard winters like we are experiencing now, tend to amplify those concerns. An SUV is a lot more likely to survive a big impact than a Prius, which makes it a better investment, even without considering the safety of those inside the car.
Even with that, though, one would have thought that consumers would have remembered the pain at the pump this summer and begun moving away from the SUV models in favor of more efficient cars. They may prefer the bigger cars now, but they may have to drive less later as a result.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »
So anyone who buys something you disapprove of is engaging in rampant consumerism at the behest of advertising executives?
And to think, I thought rampant judgmentalism was a liberal trait.
MarkTheGreat on January 7, 2009 at 8:50 AM
I can’t believe you bought a gas guzzling Honda Pilot When you could have had a really nice little Kia or little Hyundai and gotten over 30 miles to the gallon. Not the real little Kia or Hyundai but the third size up from there. The baby seat would have fit nicely inside and you could have saved buku bucks too. Wait until gas goes back to $5.00 again and your Honda Pilot costs $100 to fill up.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 8:50 AM
My brother’s a huge lib & BHO lover, & he just bought a monstrous SUV.
I’m a conservative, & I own a 37-mph Honda Fit.
jgapinoy on January 7, 2009 at 8:53 AM
mphmpgjgapinoy on January 7, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Y-not,
You seem to feel that if the govt wants to outlaw big cars, it’s ok because the govt is all of us, it’s for our own good, and heck, there are already a lot of rules, so what’s one more.
Would you say the same thing if the govt started outlawing fatty food?
Were does it stop?
MarkTheGreat on January 7, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Here is the math:
15 MPG Large SUV vs. 25 MPG Sedan, both driven 12K miles a year
$2 a gallon: $1600 vs. $960
$4 a gallon: $3200 vs. $1920
So you’re talking about $100 a month in savings at $4 gas. I don’t know about you all but that is not incentive enough for me to drive a cramped little econobox that is sure to get me killed or seriously injured in a serious accident.
Is that worth $100 a month for anyone?
angryed on January 7, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Long before the “feedstocks” get that low, something else will have been invented.
MarkTheGreat on January 7, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Most repairs cost more for your SUV than my “econobox” (I’m 6′4″, & I’m not “cramped” in it).
Your insurance costs more.
It costs more to buy.
If you financed your vehicle, the finance costs add up to much, much more.
jgapinoy on January 7, 2009 at 9:09 AM
“I can’t believe you bought a gas guzzling Honda Pilot When you could have had a really nice little Kia or little Hyundai and gotten over 30 miles to the gallon.”
I get a good 20 miles to the gallon and we don’t drive it all that much anyway, since my wife is stay at home mom and she just goes to the grocery store/play group with the baby.
Anyway, we got it from my father-in-law at a big discount, so we’re not going to lose money no matter how much gas goes up.
My point though is that you can’t transport baby seats in small cars. Anyone who has a family has to think about that, which means larger cars will always be in demand no matter how exepensive gas gets.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 9:13 AM
I have 3 vehicles insured. 2 large SUVs and a small hatchback. I’ll give you 3 guesses as to which one is the most expensive to insure? Hint: it’s not either of the SUVs.
The two large SUVs are domestic, ie they are dirt cheap to repair and parts are cheap as well. The hatchback is European, ie it costs $500 just to call my mechanic on the phone and I don’t believe there exists any part on that car that costs less than $200.
Financing? What’s that? But assuming someone were foolish enough to buy a car with a loan, again size of car has little to do with hit.
Price? Again not so. Depends what you are comparing. You can buy a $100K MB sedan. You can also buy a $15K Kia SUV. You are making a false assumption that there is some kind of correlation between size of vehicle and price. It simply isn’t so.
I’m 6′4″ as well. And my tiny hatchback is kinda cramped, but I like driving it for the driving experience. But for any long trip or if I know I will be stuck in traffic, I’m taking an SUV without a second thought.
angryed on January 7, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Oh well thats alright then. I thought you actually drove the Honda Pilot. You’ll save lots of money if you don’t drive. Especially on gas. You would definitely save less not driving a 30 mile per gallon car than on a 20 mile per gallon car. Doesn’t Honda make anything that gets 30 MPG and can hold a baby seat? You could have saved even more than you are saving now on those shopping trips. I’m glad you don’t drive it much though. It helps prevent global warming and causes less polution that way.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Ain’t it the truth. When was the last time you saw an SUV without an Obama sticker on it? I remember the pictures of Joe Kennedy and his big SUV protesting against wind generations in Cape Code. Thise two faced liberals are really something. Personally I drive a Honda Van. Only gets 24 miles to the gallon so I don’t drive it much but I save lots of money.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 9:25 AM
When our kids were little, I bought the biggest thing I could find to haul them around: a GMC full-size, 8-passenger window van. We had grandparents 400 miles away in different directions, so the van was great for those trips.
When my distracted wife ran a stop sign in town she was hit broadside by a lady in a Ford sedan. The car pushed in the side of the van under the passenger seat where No. One Son was sitting; had he been in a lower car, he’d have been seriously hurt. Just an anecdote, but I was glad the family was in the truck.
We replaced that van with another GMC, and that with another full-size Chevy Express van, converted by Glaval, with a ‘fold-and-tumble’ rear seat, great for transporting the kids and their gear to colleges. I still have that ‘LUVboat’, as I call it (Luxury Utility Van), though I probably should sell it while gas prices are low. But it’s handy toting office furniture around, for long trips; No. Two Son borrowed it recently to take a youth group on a trip. It gets all of 14 mpg. When gas went over $4/gal I took to running errands in our little ‘97 Honda Accord wagon—the last year Honda made a wagon.
The Congress made the SUV popular, with the idiotic CAFE rules that forced the manufacturers to stop making the big sedans and station wagons that Americans liked. Since Congress had exempted light trucks from CAFE, Ford beefed up its Bronco II and started marketing it as an ‘Explorer’; the others followed suit, and the SUV was born. Chrysler meanwhile invented the mini-van, and Americans had their large vehicles back, more or less.
Now that Congress has decided to include light trucks in the latest round of CAFE standards, Americans are going to be pushed into a new round of compromises in order to get the large vehicles they want. This is a big country, with long distances, and while one can make a 1,200-mile trip with three kids, a canoe, and luggage (in a little trailer) in an ‘81 Toyota Corolla 1.8L wagon—we did, after my wife wrecked the first van—most of us would prefer a little more muscle and space.
Now Congress is going to try to micromanage the Big Three US automakers, when what they should be doing is to get out of the way and let consumers have what they want and can afford. Is Congress going to force all the contractors and small-business folks to buy expensive ‘hybrid’ trucks in order to meet the new CAFE fuel standards?
The only real solution is to elect people to Congress who will repeal the CAFE rules, reign in the EPA, which artificially inflates the price of fuel (especially diesel), and encourage drilling and fast-breeder nuclear power. In point of fact, we can become energy-independent and still enjoy our big cars and trucks. It just takes lawmakers who will start listening to the American people and stop pandering to the enviro-whackos and radical left, i.e. it takes free-market conservatives. Now go out and elect some, dammit!
MrLynn on January 7, 2009 at 9:38 AM
I bought my Suburban to navigate my unpaved roads (both in winter and mud season), haul my two horses and my four dogs, but that’s an unintended perk I enjoy as well.
Ann NY on January 7, 2009 at 9:41 AM
You’ve made the most sense of anyone here. We shouldn’t have to choose between cramming the family in a roller-skate and buying a 4mpg behemoth. I remember almost everyone in my neighborhood had a giant fake wood paneled station wagon when I was growing up. We’re hard pressed to get two small kids in car seats to fit in the back of a Camry.
Laura in Maryland on January 7, 2009 at 9:48 AM
If Israel makes a direct and open attack on Iran, we’re gonna have a lot more to be worried about than the price of gas.
IMHO, we’ll continue to see the intermediary battles, with proxy fighting between the U.S. & Israel against Iran (perhaps with some covert Russian support), without “direct” involvement by the U.S. or Iran.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM
well I’ve counted mostly foreign models mentioned here. Doesn’t anyone drive an American car anymore? No wonder the boys in Detroit want a bailout. Nancy and Harry need those detroit jobs to pay for their trillion dollar give away.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 9:54 AM
I disagree. I think if we or Israel turn Iran into an oil slick the rest of the Arab Nations will be selling us $30 a barrel oil for a long time.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 9:57 AM
With the price difference, especially with the present deep discounts and ignoring the SUV safety advantage, I found it cheaper over the 6 year life of the vehicle to purchase another SUV. During the last Snow/Ice Storm my wife had a caravan of cars following her Hummer down the freeway. Why?, because she cleared the way for everyone else. It would be nice to see SUV’s become more fuel efficient, but I’m sticking with my SUV.
Zaire67 on January 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM
I bet those following were all foreign cars. The American car leads the way!!!
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM
I love my Hummer. I’ve had many SUVs and trucks over the years and see no reason to buy some little crapbox of a car.
TexasJew on January 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM
I love my ‘84 Honda Civic piece of basic crap. It runs on a rubber band & gets ~30mpg w/ ~253,000 miles.
But some of us HAVE to have a pick-up or truck. We get screwed.
We recently got rid of one of our pick-ups to concentrate the $$ on just one good pick-up to feed our cows, tow stock trailers, etc with-a diesel F350 dually automatic. It gets like 8-12mpg. We hate pouring $$ down in fuel, but what can a person do?
Your food would cost way more if the govt didn’t stick their hands in the pie & subsidize farmers.
Farm fuel may be a little cheaper, but you need a lot of it to drive those tractors. So in the end, there will always be a need for trucks, SUV-like vehicles etc.
Hey, maybe we could subsidize the people that HAVE to buy one? I’m sure that wouldn’t get abused.
Badger40 on January 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Here we call them shitboxes. And that’s what they are.
I would love your Hummer. I know the military versions can run over small trees almost a foot across. Can yours?
Badger40 on January 7, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Ohhh, I didn’t factor that in my equation.
OK, I’ll grant you that financing a vehicle, as I did, is not the smartest way to buy.
But at least I didn’t get stuck with a European car.
jgapinoy on January 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Heh. Freudian slip, jgap?
Jaibones on January 7, 2009 at 10:09 AM
Yep you farm folks are the reason the F series ford truck is still around. That thing is built Ford tough. You need a lot of power to do that farm work. Ford delivers. Oh my isn’t it a shame you can’t get that kind of power in a foreign truck. They sure do look pretty though. Even the big toyota monster truck can’t keep up. What about the Dodge Ram? I love them too. Oh those are American. Looks like real Amercian still drive American trucks. Wannabes drive foreign trucks.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM
SUVs are just more convenient than sedans. Easier to put the groceries in, better view of the road, generally safer, easier to haul the kids around with.
It’s like saying people should be balpeen hammers instead of claw hammers. That’s fine, but what if you need to pull a nail out of something? Get the right tool/car for your needs.
hawksruleva on January 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Did I read somewhere that it costs $3k to replace a hybrid battery? How does that work out?
JAW on January 7, 2009 at 10:13 AM
I heard five grand for the battery. Works out pretty good for the battery dealer.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I drive an SUV so I can haul all the stuff I often use. I went to Christmas in my daughter’s smaller car and we were hard pressed to fit everything in there.
So I’ll stick with the SUV and drive fewer miles.
Bob's Kid on January 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I disagree. I think if we or Israel turn Iran into an oil slick the rest of the Arab Nations will be selling us $30 a barrel oil for a long time.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 9:57 AM
You may be right. However, being wrong on this one comes with a big cost- an attack on a Muslim country without a clear justification could easily ignite a religious war.
I don’t think we want to be standing beside Israel with missiles & troops coming from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. unless we have no other choice.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Wow you can really tell that Ed is no conservative once again. That is the reason I don’t come here as often any longer.
So where are the SUV sales up? I’m hearing in the Western States. Some folks work with tools for a living, some folks want to carry more the people in comfort (car pool anyone?) which saves more fuel, time and money when able to.
Let’s not be Danny Douche and the next big thing. Instead let us be practical. SUV’s are practical especially if you get in an accident that involves a Prissius (Prius) and an SUV, I’ll take the SUV any day of the week.
My PU gets 15 mpg and is far more economical for me than a hundred trips to the store in an “economy” vehicle.
As for diesel the price is not going to be lower than gasoline anytime soon. The refineries had to spend likely a trillion dollars to meet the new low sulfur diesel standards, let alone all of the natural gas consumption to fuel the fired heaters in the process units, and the corresponding hydrogen reformer along with the electricity to power the compressors and pumps
Ed you are energy ignorant!
Kermit on January 7, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Actually, many years of newer F-series, Chevies, Dodge etc can’t really take the abuse. Depends on if you get the union model made on a Wednesday I guess.
We have broken them in half, along with various other things & the one we have now is a major piece of crap. Though I do have to admit, usually they will run, grudgingly.
They just cost way too much to fix when something goes wrong.
If I could buy a Toyota or Honda big enough, I would.
Our semi is a Volvo & it takes punishment.
Ford,Chevy,Dodge, all overrated.
Unless they go back to the basics, like in the 60-70s where it’s cheap to fix, I remain dissatisfied.
Badger40 on January 7, 2009 at 10:21 AM
I can’t afford gold and diamonds for my grills coz them rich folks keep hogging all the bling for themselves. They should be forced to wear costume jewelry so I can have a wicked bad smile as I flip burgers.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 10:22 AM
If I want to send money to the absolutely worthless Democrat Party, I’ll do it directly, rather than through the United Auto Workers.
I boycott the Union label, the UAW can go to hell on a cracker.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 10:23 AM
I do. I won’t be buying any ‘Big 3′ products ever again though. I don’t do business with thieves.
Toyota, Nissan et al…or maybe european if they invest over here….Audi would be nice.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Some folks work with tools for a living, some folks want to carry more the people in comfort (car pool anyone?) which saves more fuel, time and money when able to.
Kermit on January 7, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Exactly. I use all 8 seatbelts in my Suburban quite often.
If you compute the miles per person per gallon, even this behemoth stacks right up there with a Prius.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 10:28 AM
People will drive what they can afford either way.
tx2654 on January 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM
The people who want to pile us all into little tin cans are almost exclusively urban dwellers with no children.
You don’t need a car in the city, but not everyone lives in the city and not everyone is childless.
Either that or bigshot politicians who wouldn’t be caught dead on public transport and have a caravan of SUVs whisking them to and fro.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Right. And when some conceited Prius wanker dawdles onto the Interstate at 35 mph like a retard, I want to be sure that he pays with his life, not me and my kids. A sturdy 300 will crush his crackerjack toy.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM
My first car was a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Now I drive a Kia RIo 5
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-03-2006/0004241179&EDATE=
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM
If anyone in my family gets in an accident, I want them to win…
SUV is safer for driving in inclement weather, gas mileage is about 25% less, so I will spend more on fuel. But then I carry insurance (and have used it but once or twice in 40 years), and hope I never use it, so I buy an SUV and hope I never get in an accident.
right2bright on January 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM
who knows. if you wanna drive an SUV, feel free. I don’t think they are that much safer, though.
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM
…and I can find a study saying that SUV’s are safer. It all depends on who pays and publishes the study.
Ever hear of a guy named Nader?
right2bright on January 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I salute your good driving record :)
I would suggest, however, that rather than “hope”, people learn to drive like they mean to never have an accident.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Yes. That Children’s Hospital is equal to Ralph Nader.
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 10:56 AM
I don’t think the lives most people lead require an SUV. If they want to buy one, they are free to do so.
I will be telling SUV people to STFU when gas prices spike again, and they begin their predictable whinnying and whining, however.
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM
We’ve been looking at getting a larger SUV or minivan for some time now. With 3 kids, and the possibility of a fourth (or fifth, with the probability of twins again), they simply don’t make cars big enough to fit our family. We have the kids crammed in a Passat right now, and I love my car something fierce, but it’s just not practical to have a car when you have a larger family (4-5 members+).
When the kids move out in several years, sure we’ll downgrade to a smaller car. Until then, for us and families like us, there will be a demand for larger vehicles. I’ll pay more for gas, but at least we won’t have to take two vehicles to the grocery store!
Anna on January 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Any entity can have ulterior motives.
Children, by nature, are delicate and likely to be hurt in an accident. SUVs are very popular in America, so it is unsurprising to see more injuries to child SUV passengers. What a credible statistician should be looking for are numbers that control for the disparate levels of ownership, and produce a metric for survivability across a range of accident severities.
Raw physics will tell you that in any given accident, the idea that a Prius is safer than an SUV is nonsense.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 11:02 AM
One thing in defense of foreign cars – my Passat is wicked awesome in bad conditions, better than my Jeep Cherokee was back in the day. Of course, it’s a 4motion, and I take care of it, but I’ve never had any problems with it. Not all foreign cars are crap – and just because it’s American, doesn’t make it superior. Just ask my husband about the quality of his Ford Ranger (it drives okay, but the interior has been falling apart since day 1).
Anna on January 7, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Audi is God.
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM
True that. Most smaller cars today (minus econo cars like my 2-wheel drive KIA) are good in snow. They have 4 wheel drive and drive trains that are good at getting traction in inclement weather.
blatantblue on January 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM
If you have a baby, a baby seat and are taller than 6′0″, you need an SUV. Unless you want to drive with your knees on the steering wheel or being in traction from hoisting the car seat out, not to mention getting the little tyke strapped in (and they are oh so cooperative!).
Not to mention hauling their things around and buying groceries.
I never whined, never really cared. If it’s buying one car that gets 20 mpg, or two cars that each get 30 mpg, which one’s a better deal?
Small cars are an option only for the childless and for those who have jobs that don’t require hauling large loads around.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Oh really! Tell me, how do you live without food, clothes, medicine or housing?
All of those things involve unions no matter how much you boycott unions. If you buy any of those things you are just a hypocrite. You are no better than the liberals who buy the foreign cars because they say they are better quality (they’re not,) look nicer (they don’t), smell nicer (ha ha), or because they want to see Detroit and America fail (most likely). Once American industry is totally destroyed by those folks it ain’t coming back. You can sit snuggly in your non-union surroundings and lament the failure of another american industry. Sort of like cutting off your nose to spite your face don’t you think.
All those Americans who will lose there jobs because you boycott unions show me you care nothing for the USA. You care about your own hatred of unions. Thats fine.
Many Americans drive foreign cars. I am one. This is my second foreign car in my life. I did it because dollar for dollar I thought it was the best and safest van I could afford. I never considered whether the union made it or not. I did consider that it was put together in Alabama by real Americans. If it wasn’t I would have not bought it. I care about American Jobs and families. Union or non union is not a consideration. If it was union built I still would have bought it.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 11:19 AM
My motorcycle gets 55 mpg. Heh, heh.
Johan Klaus on January 7, 2009 at 11:19 AM
It is called freedom.
Johan Klaus on January 7, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Stuck? Hardly. That bad boy is coming up on 300K miles and purrs like the day it had 3 miles. Only downside is I can’t trust it to some grease monkey at the jiffy lube and so I have to pay a premium for a niche mechanic to keep it in shape. Well worth it for me.
angryed on January 7, 2009 at 11:24 AM
I have heated seats. Heh, heh. ;)
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 11:24 AM
If these urban squeaky folks are so concerned about efficiency, why don’t they all take a leaf out of the Italians’ book and buy Lambrettas?
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 11:26 AM
You are a self-righteous no-it-all, aren’t you? Carrying on the Puritan tradition without the religious part.
I boycott unions when I can and with the UAW it’s front and center.
I’m forced to fund unions unless I want to go to jail – the biggest unions around here operate our woefully overfunded/underperforming public schools – the ones Barack Obama WON’T send his kids to (but they’re OK for your little street urchins, just not precious Democrat offspring) – how’s that for hypocrisy?
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Makes me miss snow. North of here is getting trounced with a winter storm, and it’s 70* outside here in VB. I hate the drivers that think just because they have 4-wheel drive, that they can drive 70mph down the highway in a blizzard. I don’t care whether you’re in a car or SUV, you’re an idiot.
Anna on January 7, 2009 at 11:28 AM
It’s all about economics. The SUVs have been selling at such steep discounts that, for a baby-laden family, they will be far more cost-effective over their lifespan than a mini-van.
As for the SUV being safer, that’s a solid “NO”. The SUV is built to truck standards of safety, not car standards. Note that the “large tanklike” SUVs (aka the Hummer or Armada or Excursion) are the best of the SUVs, but even they are beaten by the lowly minivan (which even beats large passenger cars for safety).
In the one accident I’ve ever seen involving an SUV (a Cadillac Escalade) and a small car (a Honda Accord), the Escalade lost due to its center of gravity issue. From my vantage on a connector paralleling the freeway, it appeared that the SUV driver had a bit of road rage at the Accord because the Accord was proceeding too slowly for the Escalade driver’s preferences; the SUV was tailgating the car in the #4 lane. This was by LAX, and when the inevitable traffic blockup occurred and the Accord slowed, the Escalade driver was slow to respond, overcorrected, and “lost it”. What was amazing was that the Escalade was the only car to be damaged — everyone managed to get out of the way while, sparks flying from its roof, the Escalade skidded serenely down (?) its (now cleared) lane — cleared by people frantically taking the “chicken exit” at Century. We dialed 911 as soon as we could, but they indicated they’d already had plenty of calls.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Well thanks for telling us how you feel about unions. What would be most interesting is why you feel that way.
Lotsa love…
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Well said.
For most people, 4WD is just a way of getting 50 feet deeper into trouble ;)
LimeyGeek on January 7, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Agree, that would allow my SUV to run them down without denting my bumper.
In all seriousness, in many cities, urban squeaky folks can easily do without owning a vehicle. We have a fairly decent Metro system here in DC, along with a service where you can rent a car when you need it and pick it up at a convenient parking spot (Smart cars or something). Taxis are available.
Which is fine. But they don’t understand that most places are not DC and a good many people have families. Unfortunately, many of the people setting our policies are either childless or old money millionaires who would have the rest of us herded onto smelly buses, while they whisk about in limos.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 11:33 AM
I own a 4X4 F250 supercab, and a VW diesel that gets 46 mpg, so I figure I’m covered whatever the price of fuel. I am a little upset that you can no longer get used oil from restaurants to produce bio-diesel, but I wasn’t looking forward to the hassle of producing and storing the stuff anyway. As a side note, at the peak of fuel prices I heard many greasers complain that people had resorted to stealing the used oil from their restaurants.
DFCtomm on January 7, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Because they pretty much destroyed the main industry in my hometown (Pittsburgh)?
The United Steel Workers killed the domestic steel industry, just like the United Auto Workers are killing the domestic auto industry.
Meanwhile, I’m forced to pony up thousands of dollars a year to support the unionized, crappy, inefficient Democrat patronage program known as the local public schools. Schools jackasses like Barack Obama laud, but curiously enough, don’t send their precious offspring to.
Meanwhile, I’ll have to pony up thousands more to send my children to decent schools. Not the caliber of Barack Obama’s $28K per year school, but for a decent school.
Unions are thugocracy leeches on this country and should be banned.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Ain’t that the truth. I saw a truck flip… why? On my way to Target practice last night, He was going 60 (everyone else was going 30) on a slick black ice area and WAM! What he did was over compensate when he got out of the ruts, hit the inch layer of ice… turned his wheels the wrong way and was AIRBORNE! He didn’t get hurt.. but dang it was cool to watch… I think it may have totalled the truck. I am so buying another Ford!
upinak on January 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM
You must be new here. Hi!
Darth Executor on January 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
heh, so wrong! LOL
upinak on January 7, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Thats fair. I understand what you mean. The lifting of tariffs recently by GWB on foreign steel helped too. The Steel unions like the UAW today were not willing to take any reduction in compensation. That will probably kill the domestic auto industry the same way. It’s all John F. Kennedys fault for destroying the American steel industry in the name of international competition back in 62. It was all downhill from there. The union actually at that point 1962 was just a bystander. Kennedy had real power behind him. Kennedy brought steels to its knees. By the way I orked at Allegany-Ludlum, Crucible, US Steel in Pittsburg. as a non union supplier. Thats was in the early 70’s…I lived in Bethel Park and love Iron City. That’s how I know it all.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 11:54 AM
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Well, if you saw one SUV rollover when hitting an Accord, they must not be safe….
Seriously, your link is to Nader’s CAS. Not exactly an objective source, IMO. Yes, SUVs roll over easier than cars. I’ve also seen SUVs crush little cars in collisions. I’d like to think I’m a safe driver (no accidents or tickets in years), but if I am in a crash, I think my chances of coming out okay are better with a few thousand pounds of steel around me than sitting in a fiberglass econobox.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Or maybe the hoopla about people suffering with high gas prices was overstated?
If you spend an extra hundred bucks a month on gas and you’re okay with that, so what?
PattyJ on January 7, 2009 at 12:06 PM
I had a factory order Ford Taurus MT5 Station Wagon idled on the assembly line due to a UAW strike. When the car was eventually completed, many of the requested features weren’t on the vehicle, and it spent 90 days of its first year in the shop. One of the parts not put on was a heat shield between the power steering hoses and the exhaust manifold; when the hoses finally dried out and burst, it cost almost $1800 to fix. I sued Ford and won over that one — they couldn’t dodge the fact that the parts manual showed a heat shield and one wasn’t present on my vehicle. I would have sued the UAW, but, while they built my car, they weren’t the sellers.
When I decided to buy a new car — a Mazda6 — the sales guy steered me away from it, even though he had the exact car I wanted on his lot. He said that I’d be much happier in a Mazda3. I pressed him on this — I really liked the Mazda6. His response was that out of 30 of them he’d sold in the last year, over half came back with serious defects, while he hadn’t had a single problem with any of the Mazda3’s he’d sold over the same period. The difference is that the Mazda6 is built by our UAW “friends” in a Ford plant in Flat Rock, MI, while the Mazda3 is built in Hiroshima, Japan (ostensibly by non UAW people). Based on my experience with the Taurus, I got the Mazda3 and have loved it ever since. It should be noted that the Mazda3 shares its power plant and tranny with the Ford Focus, but is certainly the better vehicle, based on my interactions with Focus owners. I think the base reason is the UAW.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 12:07 PM
If everyone just drove Jeep Wranglers this world would be a much better place. See you on the trail!
gator70 on January 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM
The Accord was not hit — it escaped unscathed. The driver of the Escalade overcorrected due to his unsafe proximity to the Accord and overturned his/her vehicle — the kind of single-car accident that is highlighted as the primary reason SUVs are less safe than cars with near-equivalent capacity in the report I cited. High center of gravity == higher probability of rollover. The report uses statistics aggregated over the course of a single year by the NTSB (a gov’t agency) as the basis for its findings, so, Nader or not, it’s good statistical analysis. The thing missing from the report are the numbers for small cars, but since they start at the minivan level and proceed upward, it’s a report worth reading for those with children.
I offered an anecdote in complete conformance with what the report is saying, so it’s not quite “proof by example” as you would make it seem.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Honda, Toyota and the like will not build big enough for you.
sethstorm on January 7, 2009 at 12:17 PM
I offered an anecdote in complete conformance with what the report is saying, so it’s not quite “proof by example” as you would make it seem.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Fair enough. Sorry if I misread your meaning.
I clicked the linkie and said “uh-oh.”
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
In one big sense, you are absolutely right. If everyone had the same basic vehicle, that vehicle’s manufacturer(s) could design crush zones and safety equipment designed to optimize survival in a collision with its peers.
Oh, and I forgot to give cs89 a little bit of ammo for his position against me:
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
How about settling for someone who isn’t of the Reagan bent, but isn’t an environmentalist?
Fine enough for me to have a large-car loving lawmaker that has no issue with a V6’s and V8’s available to the masses. Not all of us live in some environmentalist enclave such as those ski resort towns in the West.
sethstorm on January 7, 2009 at 12:22 PM
exactly. In some areas, you NEED extra power especially for 4×4 and snow. People don’t realize how much gas is used in 4 wheel drive, when it is snowing and you have to get thru it. And I am sorry… a prius isn’t going to make it when the snow is about 9 inches… I have seen it personally.
upinak on January 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM
I’m boycotting GM/Chrysler too. I don’t like it because it means that I will be crossing out the 2-mode Saturn Vue Hybrid, the 2010 Camaro, and the…uh, well that’s pretty much it for GM cars. I’m going to buy a new car (yes, car, not a fatty-ferry SUV) in the next year and it’s going to be most likely a Honda Insight Hybrid, Altima Coupe, or Volvo C30 (hey, it’s a Ford!). If I live with my parents, I can budget for something German or the Ford Fusion Hybrid.
Hot Air needs a car thread.
Apologetic California on January 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM
After freewheeling downhill (at about 5mph), I was scared witless but eternally grateful for my Honda Pilot which handled like a champ. Those Priuses may do fine in warm areas..Florida, So Cal, etc, but here in the Northeast with black ice conditions, 4-wheeled and heavy is the only way to get anywhere safely…and even that is dicey. The ice skating rink I used to call my driveway is keeping me home today, but if there were an emergency, I’d rather be in my trusty ‘03 Pilot.
marybel on January 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM
I agree with you about unions. They attempt to insert themselves as a buffer between management and labor, but only represent one side in that two way street. The unions should have ruthlessly policed their members, and avoided frivolous concerns like triple pay on your birthday, and acted as a true buffer for the management as well as labor then unions might be in a different place today.
DFCtomm on January 7, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Thats good news. The Mazda used to be notorious for tranny problems in the Mazda 3. Gosh a bad for Taurus. Never heard of that before. Maybe the assembly plant shoulda been sued too. Hopefully now that Ford has sold off most of it’s Mazda share things will improve with Mazda. Mazda had the worst rep of the imports for a long time. Worse than Hyundai for a while.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
The problem is that SUVs are designed for one purpose and driven for another, but that has slowly been changing. Almost every design element that is desirable for off-road is undesirable for pavement. Short, narrow wheel base, high ground clearance are great on the trail but bad on pavement. You purchase a vehicle that possesses these characteristics, then for your safety, you need to understand you have limited your pavement capabilities.
DFCtomm on January 7, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Oh, and I forgot to give cs89 a little bit of ammo for his position against me:
The BBC spoke to the driver of the Toyota, but he said he was “not in the mood to give interviews”.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Haha. Now would you rather be in the Lexus or the Celica in that picture?
Seriously, have a good day.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM
I grew up next door in Peters Township and enjoy Iron City for the nostagia – when I was in high school, we could only afford the cheaper Iron City (Old German) which was available only in steel cans.
Speaking of SUVs, in that area with those hills and that ice, it’s good to have some weight in the car. I’m not sure how a Prius would handle in a locality like Pittsburgh, where you have a lot of roads in disrepair, ridiculously high hills and so-so plowing and that’s in places where they plow the roads. My brother lives on a private street in Cecil and it’s never plowed.
I always heard that it was managements fault that all of the Steel Plants in Pittsburgh failed. But I remember there being dozens of plants – they all had bad management? Agree that it was the wage structure. Pittsburgh Steel couldn’t compete when they were paying twice the wages of foreign steel makers.
I loved Pittsburgh growing up and often wish that I could have raised by family there, but I had to move away because there were very few jobs.
NoDonkey on January 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Lesson not learned? So having the safest type of vehicle on the road is a bad thing? Those that had the knee jerk reaction of buying golf carts have the lesson to learn.
P.S.
Oh what freud would say about that.
MirCat on January 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM
yep many of us moved away for that reason. It is really sad.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Oh along with Iron City…Beto’s Pizza What a meal.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 1:11 PM
“You may be right. However, being wrong on this one comes with a big cost- an attack on a Muslim country without a clear justification could easily ignite a religious war”
Where have you been since 2003?
Bevan on January 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Ha ha some people never seem to appreciate the irony of their words. Nice pickup.
kanda on January 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM
I will not buy aother gas guzzler
The real reason though is
I am sick of FEEDING the ISLAMO NAZIS..
I am sick to death of giving my money to arab nations
which immidiatly turn around screaming that they are still poor all the while using that money to build weapons to kill americans and jews..
No america you must stop this insanity NOW..
do not buy any suv’s
jcila on January 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM
My butt does not get cold, but in our Texas winters, my hands and feet sometimes get cold, even with leathers and boots. But, then I have got my F-150.
Johan Klaus on January 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Bevan on January 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM
I’ve been watching Bush do something right- talk about terrorism, take the fight to Iraq and Afghanistan, and be careful to outline the U.S. is fighting terrorism, not Islam in general.
Here’s the rest of my quote you allude to:
I haven’t seen multiple Muslim nations marching their armies toward Israel or the U.S. That’s what I was referring to if Isreal attacks Iran.
cs89 on January 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Drill here, drill now.
Johan Klaus on January 7, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Understood. I came down the hill from the parking lot sideways on the black ice in my Mazda3 in Flagstaff a few days ago. I was stupid — forgot to release the parking brake. Then I put the chains on (and released the parking brake) and everything was nearly OK — except for those guys (a Honda Civic and a Ford F-250) trying the full-throttle hill-climb while I was at the bottom putting the chains on. They’d get about half-way up and slide back down, missing my car by inches. Totally crazy. Finally the maintenance people put cinders on the driveway. Went from Flagstaff to Ash Fork at about 20mph on the chains — and wound up leading a whole caravan. Lots of 4wd SUVs and semi’s going by at about 40mph; I couldn’t figure out how they could see the road, since the snow was blowing right at us. When I pulled off at a safety area to check my chains, a whole line of cars pulled off behind me, and the driver of the one right behind me (from North Carolina) said I was a life-saver — how could I see the road? Sobered him up by saying “What road?” First snow I’d seen since I left Buffalo years ago, and boy was there a lot of it — 4in/hour.
unclesmrgol on January 7, 2009 at 1:28 PM
But, what do think Iran will do if they get nukes.
Johan Klaus on January 7, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »