Israel invades Gaza; Update: “A lengthy operation”
posted at 1:38 pm on January 3, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Just a headline so far and no one else is reporting it, but they’ve been shelling northern Gaza since this morning to prepare the way so it’s not unexpected.
Now the JPost is reporting it too. Stand by for updates.
Update: From the JPost, big dividends from good intel:
The IAF also hit the home of senior Hamas commander Abu Zacharia Al-Jamal. A Hamas spokesman announced that al-Jamal was killed in the attack, which would make him the third senior operative in the group to be targeted in the past three days.
More:
Israeli defense officials said some 10,000 troops, including tank, artillery and special operations units, were massed on the Gaza border and prepared to invade. They said top commanders were split over whether to send in ground forces, in part because such an operation could lead to heavy casualties but also because they believed Hamas already had been dealt a heavy blow. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were classified discussions.
Fox News reported earlier that Israeli leaders had okayed a ground assault while the Telegraph claimed that they’d nixed it, so it’s safe to conclude this wasn’t done without serious misgivings. I’m actually surprised they went in: They can’t stop the rockets and they surely don’t want to reoccupy, so the only goal realistically is to bloody Hamas’s nose. But they’ve already done that with the airstrikes. Upping the ante by sending in infantry only leaves them vulnerable to a 2006 scenario where Hamas “wins” by surviving. According to Haaretz, Arab leaders told Olmert, “Go in if you must, but don’t dare fail.” What will “failure” look like? What, specifically, are they after? Hamas leaders or Qassam caches, or something else?
If they’d called a ceasefire unilaterally and said, “Let that be a lesson to you,” Hamas would have fired off a few rockets and declared victory. Some victory, though — Israel’s killed several big jihadi fish and plenty of littler ones, and hit dozens of military targets with virtually no casualties on its own side. Now it’s got men in harm’s way and propaganda opportunities galore for the enemy in the form of the “resistance” chucking rocks at tanks while the media spoons it up. Exit question: Isn’t Hamas going to fire off rockets and declare victory anyway after the ground assault?
Update: The point of the war, eloquently stated by a commenter at Commentary: “The military campaign as a whole to the extent that it is conducted effectively, will greatly reduce the number of people existing right now who wish to and are capable of harming Israel. On its own terms, that’s all it can accomplish, and that’s enough. Whether it makes a few people angry in Pakistan is an incalculable-unless, for reasons of your own, you wish to give those who can rent a mob, buy colorful anti-Israel banners, and get themselves on CNN veto power over Israeli policies.”
Update: The JPost says the goal of the operation is to destroy Hamas infrastructure and seize control of launching pads in the north. For how long, though? Until they pull out in two weeks and the pads are re-seized by Hamas?
Update: I’ve said this before, but however slanted you think American media is against Israel, it really doesn’t even approach British media.
Update: “Tens of thousands” of reservists are on their way up.
Update: An IDF spokesman says there are “many, many targets,” so the world shouldn’t hold its breath waiting for a pullout. Question: Are we to infer from the timing that Obama greenlit the operation? I remember people like John Bolton speculating months ago that the IAF would make a run on Iran sometime between the election and the inauguration, partly to avoid putting the new president on the spot and partly to eliminate the possibility that he’d stop them from acting once in office. This ain’t Iran, but the principle still applies. Did The One sign off on this, or did Israel act now precisely so that he wouldn’t have to?
Update: Bits and pieces of video from the invasion.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Update: Isn’t this operation destined to be finished by Inauguration Day or very shortly thereafter? Obama’s not going to complicate his peace plans by tolerating a long Israeli incursion right out of the chute. They’re on the clock.
Update: A few careless statements from Israeli pols give the NYT all the reason it needs to up the ante further and ask whether anything short of destroying Hamas will do.
Vice Premier Haim Ramon went even further Friday night in an interview on Israeli television, saying Israel must not end this operation with Hamas in charge of Gaza.
“What I think we need to do is to reach a situation in which we do not allow Hamas to govern,” Mr. Ramon said on Channel One. “That is the most important thing.”…
“If the war ends in a draw, as expected, and Israel refrains from reoccupying Gaza, Hamas will gain diplomatic recognition,” wrote Aluf Benn, a political analyst, in the newspaper Haaretz on Friday. “No matter what you call it,” he added, “Hamas will obtain legitimacy.”…
[E]ven if Israel intends to hold back from completely overthrowing Hamas, its choice of assault tactics could head that way anyway. And the Israelis may already be facing a kind of mission creep: after all, if enough of Hamas’s infrastructure is destroyed, the prospect of governing Gaza, a densely populated, refugee-filled area whose weak economy has been devastated by the Israeli-led boycott, will be exceedingly difficult.
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MB do you not comprehend? You act as if I should ignore reading hundreds of your posts and not know anything of you.
For someone who must be over 50 you could really start acting or thinking like it.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:00 PM
You have no idea who H.R. McMasters is, do you?
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Asked and answered.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:02 PM
MB4 when did McMaster serve in Nam?
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Somehow I seriously doubt that, well unless you weren’t there. Cause if you were, then I’m sure it happened many times even if you were to dense to know it.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:04 PM
MB4 in other words you cannot comprehend. Too much and too easy.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Why even a child of five could understand my analogies. Better go fetch yourself a child of five.
- “Groucho”
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:06 PM
As Sigmund would say, you are a text book case of projection.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:08 PM
He’s a West Point whiner.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:08 PM
YOU SEE–MB4 is an expert on the 5 year old mentality.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Ha, Well now I understand the mental level of your arguments. :-)
conservnut on January 3, 2009 at 10:09 PM
MB4 you read yet cannot comprehend. Do you not see a problem with that?
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:10 PM
I believe that I already made that diagnosis earlier. Is there an echo in here?
Sigmund on January 3, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Let me see if I have this right.
- I can read hundreds of posts from someone yet I must not make anything of them.
and
- MB4 lacks simple comprehension skill yet I should believe that he comprehended a complex book.
MB4 again when did McMaster serve in Nam?
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:13 PM
There you go again.
- Ronald Reagan
I see your problem of projecting yet again. That’s what I see.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:14 PM
No echo Sigmund just two birds of a feather. And that is not a compliment Mr. Simplistic.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:15 PM
MB4 keep acting childish.Bet the women love it.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Ronald Reagan would kick your ass for you quoting him like that…
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:17 PM
MB4 let us try again. When did McMaster serve in Nam as you obviously by your previous posts think that only those that did can make valid arguments about its strategy and necessity. Now let us see if you can respond like a mature adult.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Let me see if I have this right. You may have dull perceptions.
Why don’t you just “google” him and you can find out all about him.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Well now…
FeralCat on Jan 3,2009 at 9:34PM.
FeralCat: When you come across a mouse-trap,procede with
extreme caution,then stuff out the dead mouse
again!
They are ever crafty and sneaky,they could be
booby-trapped!:)haha.
canopfor on January 3, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Seems if anyone is projecting here I suspect
MB failed our friends in Nam and now has much guilt and will blame anyone else. Sleep well.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:20 PM
MB4 so we agree your posts are BS as we cannot conclude from them anything about you.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:21 PM
MB4 you are too easy. Earlier you insinuated that if one did not serve in Nam their opinion is not as valid. You and I know he did not serve in Nam yet you hold him up as an expert. Funny you avoided the question. hmmm. too easy. sleep well. When you mature let me know then we can really talk.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:23 PM
You are clearly confused again and seem to be becoming ever more so.
There you go [yet] again.
- Ronald Reagan
Your continued projecting is getting quite old.
I think that, as this going in circles is getting very boring, I will take Mark’s advice.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Sigh, believe it or not MB4 is really only a retard when discussing military matters. I think he has some very serious failure issues.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:26 PM
I see MB4 when proven the village idiot plays tired games.
Not surprised as this is quite typical.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM
You are too into self-delusion. Way too into it.
If you had half the sense of
a cucumberCaroline Kennedy you would realize that your assumption about my supposed insinuating was in error.MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:32 PM
Then MB4 goes on to note a book by someone who did not serve in Nam. hmmmm.
We see how it works but I can tell he cannot even comprehend the word comprehension or understand projecting. One he does not master(the former) and one he masters(the latter-it goes without saying).
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:33 PM
So just what was your point? spin on.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:34 PM
There you go [YET] again.
- Ronald Reagan
Your repeated textbook projection has become as a torrential flood.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Did he serve in nam? easy yes or no…can you handle that? why the avoidance?
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Pot meet kettle. Your childish tactics are hilarious.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:38 PM
Got to love those that post and cannot answer even the simplest of questions. Makes one wonder why they even bother.
Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 10:44 PM
That must be what I was missing.
I had remembered MB4 as being obnoxious besides his good Twain quotes, but then found him agreeing with me recently. I guess I must have been remembering his behavior on military threads.
Count to 10 on January 3, 2009 at 10:44 PM
You should always try to keep track of “context and perspective” for later reference. I should not be expected to have to waste time and do it for you. I am not your mom. I may not always be around to help you out so you should really learn to do it on your own.
Should be no “hmmmm” at all for anyone with any degree of perception.
Do you have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time?
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:46 PM
By the way, on the patient metaphor, the appropriate one is forcing a cancer into remission, declaring the patient cured, retiring, and then watching the new doctor lock the patient out of the emergency room when the cancer suddenly returns.
Count to 10 on January 3, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Sigh,now that was really “brilliant”. You must try to do better. Even Princess Caroline could probably, you know, do better than that.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:50 PM
Ya, the truth does have a way of being brilliant. ;P
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Hey MB4! Why don’t you come over to my alley sometime and debate with me. I’m way more of a challenge than those little mice. I’ll give you a run for your money. Better than them for sure.
FeralCat on January 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Didn’t he loan Thomas Magnum his Hawaiian estate while he was off writing books or winning wars somewhere?
Actually, Mr. McMaster was a part of the “brain trust” that consulted with Gen. David Petraeus in the development of the “surge” counterinsurgency plans. He is no “peace at any cost” armchair philosopher. He also commanded the 3rd ACR during its second deployment in Iraq in which they conducted Operation Restore Rights, defeating the insurgents’ strongholds in Tal Afar and securing the city.
Just sayin’…
hillbillyjim on January 3, 2009 at 10:56 PM
It might be helpful to get, you know, like, a clue first so that you could recognize it.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:58 PM
And out of the darkness comes light!
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 10:59 PM
Just because he consulted doesn’t mean that Gen. David Petraeus actually took any of his advice. A wise General like David Petraeus listens to advice he doesn’t agree with.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 10:59 PM
What would you know of clues? You certainly wouldn’t recognize one even if it hit you in the head like a two-by-four…
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 11:01 PM
H.R. McMaster is a West Point (1984 – a little late for RVN!) graduate who earned a Silver Star for battlefield prowess during the 1991 Gulf War after his armored cavalry troop stumbled across an Iraqi mechanized brigade in the middle of a sandstorm and destroyed it. Recently promoted to Brigade General.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:06 PM
I must say that you are sounding particularly silly this evening.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Grasping at straws does not an argument make. The guy also served honorably and courageously in Desert Storm (so-called 1st Gulf War). The man obviously knows his sh!t concerning matters military, both strategically and tactically speaking.
Whether or not he “right” about Vietnam can be debated ad infinitum, (or ad nauseum).
My personal opinion of the matter is that the U.S. Military did not lose in Vietnam, but the United States as a whole surely lost a hell of a lot, in blood, treasure, respect, and reputation. There is plenty of blame to go around.
hillbillyjim on January 3, 2009 at 11:15 PM
No more silly than you. ;)
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 11:18 PM
It’s called echolalia, Doctor :)
mikeyboss on January 3, 2009 at 11:18 PM
You get no argument from me there.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 11:19 PM
Sorry I have been out of the fuss for a bit, connection problems.
McMasters, and yes MB I did read his book, was not in Vietnam. He graduated in 1980 from Valley Forge Military Academy. While he as proven himself in combat. (the battle of 73 easting in gulf war one) and has a PhD in military history (which is no real reflection on his ability to understand geo-political matters) his book primarily bitches about the ground commanders and how they conducted the war. While he does question the reason for the war, that is not the main complaint he has. His lack of understanding of the larger picture and his insistence on teaching his theory’s at West Point has undoubtedly led to his being passed over two times for promotion. Another Wesly Clark we do not need in the Major General ranks.
conservnut on January 3, 2009 at 11:21 PM
Off topic:
BTW, dorian, how goes the quest to conquer the metal world? Any new tracks online?
hillbillyjim on January 3, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Nope, to busy just earning a living these days.
doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM
over 400 posts of nothing but bullshit personal attacks, and tit for tat nonsense by adults acting like children. WTF? Did I just accidently surf over to HuffPo???!!!
Idiots. Stop acting like Liberals and conduct yourselves appropriately.
KMC1 on January 3, 2009 at 11:27 PM
McMasters has been passed over for promotion twice. Undoubtedly his peers and superiors have some doubts about him moving into the major general ranks with his lack of understanding of the larger geo-political picture.
Another Gen. Wesley Clark we do not need on CNN.
conservnut on January 3, 2009 at 11:27 PM
McMaster is a quack. He kissed some supreme arse to get that O-6 promotion and how he was promoted to O-7 will be the greatest mystery of all time. Spend some time around the E ring someday and the truth(McMaster is a quack) will become self-evident.
0321_GUY on January 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Close, but me thinks you got him by a whisker.
FeralCat on January 3, 2009 at 11:30 PM
It seems destroying one’s enemies and acquiring new land is still pretty much the way to go.
Kralizec on January 3, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Just a word to the wise. If you see Limerick or his son, run!
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:32 PM
So are you trying to say that the REMF don’t much like him?
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Or possibly, he stepped on the wrong toes?
hillbillyjim on January 3, 2009 at 11:37 PM
West Point cadets are obligated to stay in the Army for five years after graduating. In a typical year, about a quarter to a third of them decide not to sign on for another term. But last year, when the 905 officers from the class of 2001 had to make their choice to stay or leave, 44 percent quit the Army. It was the service’s highest loss rate in three decades.
An hour after General Cody’s talk at Fort Knox, several captains met to discuss the issue over beers. Capt. Garrett Cathcart, who has served in Iraq as a platoon leader, said: “The culture of the Army is to accomplish the mission, no matter what. That’s a good thing.” Matt Wignall, who was the first captain to ask General Cody about the Yingling article, agreed that a mission-oriented culture was “a good thing, but it can be dangerous.” He added: “It is so rare to hear someone in the Army say, ‘No, I can’t do that.’ But sometimes it takes courage to say, ‘I don’t have the capability.’ ” Before the Iraq war, when Rumsfeld overrode the initial plans of the senior officers, “somebody should have put his foot down,” Wignall said.
Yingling’s commander at Tal Afar, H. R. McMaster, documented a similar crisis in the case of the Vietnam War. Twenty years after the war, McMaster wrote a doctoral dissertation that he turned into a book called “Dereliction of Duty.” It concluded that the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the 1960s betrayed their professional obligations by failing to provide unvarnished military advice to President Lyndon B. Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara as they plunged into the Southeast Asian quagmire.When McMaster’s book was published in 1997, Gen. Hugh Shelton, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs, ordered all commanders to read it — and to express disagreements to their superiors, even at personal risk. Since then, “Dereliction of Duty” has been recommended reading for Army officers.
Yet before the start of the Iraq war and during the early stages of the fighting, the Joint Chiefs once again fell silent. Justin Rosenbaum, the captain at Fort Knox who asked General Cody whether any generals would be held accountable for the failures in Iraq, said he was disturbed by this parallel between the two wars. “We’ve read the McMaster book,” he said. “It’s startling that we’re repeating the same mistakes.”
McMaster’s own fate has reinforced these apprehensions. President Bush has singled out McMaster’s campaign at Tal Afar as a model of successful strategy. Gen. David Petraeus, now commander of United States forces in Iraq, frequently consults with McMaster in planning his broader counterinsurgency campaign. Yet the Army’s promotion board — the panel of generals that selects which few dozen colonels advance to the rank of brigadier general — has passed over McMaster two years in a row.
McMaster’s nonpromotion has not been widely reported, yet every officer I spoke with knew about it and had pondered its implications. One colonel, who asked not to be identified because he didn’t want to risk his own ambitions, said: “Everyone studies the brigadier-general promotion list like tarot cards — who makes it, who doesn’t. It communicates what qualities are valued and not valued.
- Fred Kaplin
BTW, not to worry as I understand that General Petraeus recently made sure that McMasters was promoted to one star even if some E ring REMF did not like it.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:43 PM
Just because he has proven to be a skilled tactician does not mean he is right about the political reality’s of the 70’s.
conservnut on January 3, 2009 at 11:46 PM
No, but it does mean that you might want to read his book sometime. You can get it cheap on amazon used. I got it for $4 plus $4 shipping.
MB4 on January 3, 2009 at 11:49 PM
Tell you what MB, I’ll read that if you will read The rise and fall of the Soviet Empire.
Deal?
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 12:03 AM
I’m intrigued. Would this book be comprehensible to someone who knows nothing about the Vietnam war and military matters in general?
aengus on January 4, 2009 at 12:17 AM
I don’t think that you would have any trouble with it at all.
MB4 on January 4, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Try to keep up to date, imperialist dog.
PootyPoot on January 4, 2009 at 12:21 AM
I take it by MB4’s lack of response that he does not want to read anything that might upset his poor vision of the USA.
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 12:28 AM
The first paragraph of Amazon.com’s Review of “..Soviet Empire” quotes Margaret Thatcher out of context, making her sound soft on Communism. John O’ Sullivan’s The President, the Pope, and the Prime Minister puts the incident in context and explains why Thatcher was distraught at the invasion of Grenada i.e. it wasn’t because she was sympathetic to Communism.
aengus on January 4, 2009 at 12:48 AM
Read the book.
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 12:52 AM
Go IDF !!!!!
NEVER AGAIN !!!!!
dave264 on January 4, 2009 at 12:54 AM
Are you talking to me? I was referring to a comment by Gregory McNamee – the Amazon.com Reviewer – and explaining that it was quoted out of context to give a false impression of Margaret Thatcher’s attitude to Communism.
I’m not making any claims about “..Soviet Empire” itself. I don’t know what it says about Thatcher or about the invasion of Grenada. It sounds interesting though, I’ll put it on my reading list.
aengus on January 4, 2009 at 12:57 AM
Sorry, I misinterpreted your comment. Please do read it. I found it enlightening.
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 1:00 AM
Well, I am tired of waiting for MB4’s response. Going to bed. Good night all.
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM
Ofra Haza singing second Israeli national anthem, its a very lovely and moving piece.
Some IDF female eye-candy. ;)
I found my board soul-mate. hehe
This is definitely a war between 21st century Civilization (the West) and 7th cent. Barbarism (Islam). We should never be fooled into complacency or overconfidence by assuming that the rag-tag gun-toting jihadist dirtbag in a cave represents all of Islam. Muslims leaders and strategists are very cunning and their time horizons span decades and centuries when it comes to conquering nations (57 so far and counting), unlike the myopic 4 year outlooks of western states.
These Islamists have also planned for and begun the colonization and eventual take-over the West. This includes buying up properties/assets, using the generous welfare state and rioting to strain, cripple and bankrupt infidel state resources.
It is a calculated, well thought out plan-including the chaos and violence (incited from within mosques), lawsuits to threaten and silence all opposition. Since they cannot defeat us militarily, they rely on the ‘population bomb’, that is mass immigration and breeding to eventually outnumber us and take over ‘democratically’ (ie destroying democracy from within). Geert Wilders said it best in this video.
At some point, after killing thousands and thousands of muslim ‘radicals’ (which although significant really won’t make any dramatic difference in their overall scheme) our civilization will have to come to the realization that it is the ideology of Islam which is the engine that is driving all the terrorism and hatred that comes out of the muslim world. As well as the fascist totalitarian Arab imperialist agenda for global domination and they are succeeding while many in the West are assisting them or sticking their heads in the sand in ignorance.
I applaud every little victory we gain against the muslims, including this IDF operation in Gaza and the Czech gov’t (which holds the EU presidency) backing Israel. While some of us are fully aware of what this war is about, I think civilization will gradually learn in incremental steps. All that matters is that we wake up while we’re still able to defeat Islam and by defeat I mean eradicate this parasitic civilization-destroying pandemic completely.
This enemy/disease is common to all democratic nations and while I’m a secular Hindu Indian living in the West, I declare that (co-opting McCain’s phrase for Georgia):
TODAY WE ARE ALL ISRAELIS
A worthwhile reminder for us all:
“Civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within. The bitter lesson [is that] eternal vigilance is the price of civilization. A nation must love peace, but keep its powder dry.” -historian Will Durant
thinkagain on January 4, 2009 at 1:43 AM
If I remember right, when I was in the military being passed over the third time was a career killer.
Johan Klaus on January 4, 2009 at 1:45 AM
OK, if you want to be that way, I will take it that you do not want to read anything that will upset your fawning vision of Lyndon Baines Johnson and Robert Strange McNamara then.
MB4 on January 4, 2009 at 1:53 AM
The problems with Viet Nam were the same problems with Iraq. You must do what ever is necessary win, period.
Johan Klaus on January 4, 2009 at 1:55 AM
One must know when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em and when to just not get involved in the first place.
MB4 on January 4, 2009 at 2:17 AM
Anti-needless wars does not=anti-military, that equals pro-military.
It’s you who wants more men to die bringing “democracy” to a bunch of camel-humpers who only discovered the wheel a couple decades ago.
lodge on January 4, 2009 at 5:06 AM
Well if the camel-humpers been shouting “death to amrikka” since 1979 , building nukes and sponsoring terrorism , maybe they need some firm attention.
the_nile on January 4, 2009 at 5:22 AM
We’ve been interfering over there since 1953. They aren’t shouting “death to China!”, “death to Russia!”, “death to Canada!” are they?
lodge on January 4, 2009 at 5:27 AM
America will stand up for Israel. Period. Done deal. Get over it.
Since the “camel humpers” want Israel erased, they shout “Death to America” too. Since China, and Russia don’t stand up for Israel (to say the least), they don’t say “Death to China”, or “Death to Russia”.
Did I make that simple enough for you?
We know you can quote people. That’s all you seem to do. How about making your own argument? In other words, if you want to debate, then debate.
Squiggy on January 4, 2009 at 7:47 AM
How about to destroy hamas? Can’t be more then a hundred or so that actually run the organization. Kill as many as possible and let the rest run to iran or lebanon.
That’s squishy middle of the road republican thinking for you(at best). Base your actions on not letting the media say something bad about you. Forget that they have launched 7000 rockets at civilians in the last year and can now reach a nuclear reactor with those rockets, just don’t do something that squishy middle of the road republicans think may offend thier friends at cnn.
peacenprosperity on January 4, 2009 at 7:51 AM
I should have read further before letting allahs silliness make me react.
Thanks, Adam, I couldn’t have said it better.
peacenprosperity on January 4, 2009 at 7:54 AM
Wow, I was going to comment on the shocking fairness of MSNBC’s report, but I can’t help being disappointed in the off-topic slanders being hurled in the many of the previous comments. Not fit for HA readers. Can’t we all get along? Disagree agreeably?
jgapinoy on January 4, 2009 at 8:04 AM
No doubt someone will attack me for calling for HA-rmony.
jgapinoy on January 4, 2009 at 8:05 AM
So what, the muslims have been trying to destroy the world since they started their death cult. And here we are , let’s roll or roll over.
the_nile on January 4, 2009 at 8:35 AM
Soulmate, any time that someone talks in terms of defeating Islam rather than the usual pablum of tolerance and multiculturalism, it’s music to my ears.
Some good news in this global war is that in Holland, the leftist Labor Party has actually come out with a statement saying that tolerance has not worked, in light of the scourge that immigrant Muslims have on Western society. So maybe they are waking up in Europe, though in Britains case, it’s probably too late.
What has been incredibly frustrating on the homefront here, particularly with my Jewish head-in-the-sand friends (and I have many of them in the NY area), is that when over the years I attempt to talk to these knee jerk liberal Democrats about Islam/Muslims, they immediately assume that I’m racist or a xenophobe. In their haste to show how liberal and open-minded they are, they assume that I’m wary of dark-skinned people, of any culture other than white Protestants or something. They are so uniformed that they assume I lump in a Hindu Indian with a Muslim Albanian, not understanding how one is an enemy and one isn’t. They brag how they think it’s so great that Ellison, a Muslim, is a US Senator, and pat themselves on the back how open-minded and accepting they are.
I’d really like to hear from someone who is Jewish to give me some perspective on this. Simply put, why is the Jewish community so overwhelmingly Democratic and left-wing when it is conservatives and the right-wing who understand the threat of Islam and support pro-Israeli policies and the war on (Islamic)terror?
CarolynM on January 4, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Gut Hamas in Gaza. Then jump on a plane to Tehran and take out their arsenals including anything that smacks of nuclear. We stand beside Israel or we fall victim to Muslim terrorists. Last I checked, it was not the Israelis who took out the twin towers in NY or flew their plane into the Pentagon or into the ground in western PA on 9/11. What more will it take to convince us that the terrorists will sacrifice anything to kill us all?
gracie on January 4, 2009 at 9:14 AM
There you go again, when did I ever say that I liked Johnson or Mcnamara? I despised them both for many reasons. You are avoiding my deal. Perhaps because you do not want to read anything that will upset your fawning vision of Abbie Hoffman.
conservnut on January 4, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Hogwash . . . Vietnam was won by our military and lost by our weak, leftist government. Iraq will be won by our military in spite of our weak, leftist government.
rplat on January 4, 2009 at 9:22 AM
You know we pump billions into this mess which is incomprehensible.
The people who cry about Israel’s response are retarded. If Israel listens to the international community they will lose their land the same way the Arabs lost that land. Israel stole it fair and square, if the Arabs really deserved that land they would have took better measures to keep it, they are currently crying about the response because they are in a position of weakness, if they ever grew stronger they would change their tune.
I just hope the Israelis kill as many people as possible, they are a sovereign entity and shouldn’t be beholden to anybody. In fact they should be independent, thus the reason I don’t think they or the Palestinians should get any aid from us. But if we’re wasting billions on weapons we might as well get the fireworks show that we deserve. I hope the Israelis completely wipe out the Palestinians. Then the two bit dictators in the ME that exploit this mess will have no option but to retaliate. I hope they then turn Israel/Palestinian territories into glass. Then both groups will be completely eliminated and people will have the justification to wipe out the Arab dictators, we might even get lucky and the Israelis would fire off a nuke or two before they are eliminated, maybe even go Tancredo and nuke Mecca. Since they all can’t live together the only solution seems to me that they should all die together. And if all places are nuked, great, it will show all of you that your nonexistent “skygods” could give two shits about your “holy” lands.
The Palestinians and the Israelis are fighting over useless land, none of them have respect for their own lives, let alone others, so they should all lose their lives at their own hands. And if they are all wiped out I don’t have to hear the survivors whine and cry, I have no sympathy for people that live in a perpetual war zone and cry about violence. It’s just a place that Zionists and Arab dictators exploit for power and profit, the people who live there, especially the people who fight there have no respect for their own lives and their amazing ignorance deserves no pity from any of us.
LevStrauss on January 4, 2009 at 9:23 AM
Technically, these comments make you a dick.
JiangxiDad on January 4, 2009 at 10:26 AM
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