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Israel invades Gaza; Update: “A lengthy operation”

posted at 1:38 pm on January 3, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Just a headline so far and no one else is reporting it, but they’ve been shelling northern Gaza since this morning to prepare the way so it’s not unexpected.

Now the JPost is reporting it too. Stand by for updates.

Update: From the JPost, big dividends from good intel:

The IAF also hit the home of senior Hamas commander Abu Zacharia Al-Jamal. A Hamas spokesman announced that al-Jamal was killed in the attack, which would make him the third senior operative in the group to be targeted in the past three days.

More:

Israeli defense officials said some 10,000 troops, including tank, artillery and special operations units, were massed on the Gaza border and prepared to invade. They said top commanders were split over whether to send in ground forces, in part because such an operation could lead to heavy casualties but also because they believed Hamas already had been dealt a heavy blow. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were classified discussions.

Fox News reported earlier that Israeli leaders had okayed a ground assault while the Telegraph claimed that they’d nixed it, so it’s safe to conclude this wasn’t done without serious misgivings. I’m actually surprised they went in: They can’t stop the rockets and they surely don’t want to reoccupy, so the only goal realistically is to bloody Hamas’s nose. But they’ve already done that with the airstrikes. Upping the ante by sending in infantry only leaves them vulnerable to a 2006 scenario where Hamas “wins” by surviving. According to Haaretz, Arab leaders told Olmert, “Go in if you must, but don’t dare fail.” What will “failure” look like? What, specifically, are they after? Hamas leaders or Qassam caches, or something else?

If they’d called a ceasefire unilaterally and said, “Let that be a lesson to you,” Hamas would have fired off a few rockets and declared victory. Some victory, though — Israel’s killed several big jihadi fish and plenty of littler ones, and hit dozens of military targets with virtually no casualties on its own side. Now it’s got men in harm’s way and propaganda opportunities galore for the enemy in the form of the “resistance” chucking rocks at tanks while the media spoons it up. Exit question: Isn’t Hamas going to fire off rockets and declare victory anyway after the ground assault?

Update: The point of the war, eloquently stated by a commenter at Commentary: “The military campaign as a whole to the extent that it is conducted effectively, will greatly reduce the number of people existing right now who wish to and are capable of harming Israel. On its own terms, that’s all it can accomplish, and that’s enough. Whether it makes a few people angry in Pakistan is an incalculable-unless, for reasons of your own, you wish to give those who can rent a mob, buy colorful anti-Israel banners, and get themselves on CNN veto power over Israeli policies.”

Update: The JPost says the goal of the operation is to destroy Hamas infrastructure and seize control of launching pads in the north. For how long, though? Until they pull out in two weeks and the pads are re-seized by Hamas?

Update: I’ve said this before, but however slanted you think American media is against Israel, it really doesn’t even approach British media.

Update: “Tens of thousands” of reservists are on their way up.

Update: An IDF spokesman says there are “many, many targets,” so the world shouldn’t hold its breath waiting for a pullout. Question: Are we to infer from the timing that Obama greenlit the operation? I remember people like John Bolton speculating months ago that the IAF would make a run on Iran sometime between the election and the inauguration, partly to avoid putting the new president on the spot and partly to eliminate the possibility that he’d stop them from acting once in office. This ain’t Iran, but the principle still applies. Did The One sign off on this, or did Israel act now precisely so that he wouldn’t have to?

Update: Bits and pieces of video from the invasion.


Update: Isn’t this operation destined to be finished by Inauguration Day or very shortly thereafter? Obama’s not going to complicate his peace plans by tolerating a long Israeli incursion right out of the chute. They’re on the clock.

Update: A few careless statements from Israeli pols give the NYT all the reason it needs to up the ante further and ask whether anything short of destroying Hamas will do.

Vice Premier Haim Ramon went even further Friday night in an interview on Israeli television, saying Israel must not end this operation with Hamas in charge of Gaza.

“What I think we need to do is to reach a situation in which we do not allow Hamas to govern,” Mr. Ramon said on Channel One. “That is the most important thing.”…

“If the war ends in a draw, as expected, and Israel refrains from reoccupying Gaza, Hamas will gain diplomatic recognition,” wrote Aluf Benn, a political analyst, in the newspaper Haaretz on Friday. “No matter what you call it,” he added, “Hamas will obtain legitimacy.”…

[E]ven if Israel intends to hold back from completely overthrowing Hamas, its choice of assault tactics could head that way anyway. And the Israelis may already be facing a kind of mission creep: after all, if enough of Hamas’s infrastructure is destroyed, the prospect of governing Gaza, a densely populated, refugee-filled area whose weak economy has been devastated by the Israeli-led boycott, will be exceedingly difficult.


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55% of U.S. Democrats, 27% of Republicans, oppose Israel`s Gaza campaign (Haaretz)

Entelechy on January 3, 2009 at 3:23 PM

The Iraq war is a continuation of the 1991 war. It is legitimate. Read up about the cease fire agreement.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Mord said:
You consistently ignore people’s words and twist what they say, then completely ignore it when you are called out, or change the subject. Bishop said “democracies RARELY make war on eachother”. You turned that into “So you’re asserting that a democracy can declare war on a non-democracy, but a democracy can’t declare war on a democracy?” You stike me as a immature troublemaker who just likes to stir people up and you never offer anything constuctive.

you nailed it. lodge is very childish.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Let’s hope Israel continues the offensive to a decisive and positive outcome. I noticed that good old CNN has started its whine act for the poor Palestinians. This of course isn’t unusual for that left wing gaggle . . . you may recall that CNN was still praising and pandering to Saddam even after our soldiers were dying in combat. If that network had any guts or character it would declare itself as an anti American entity so everyone would know precisely it they stands.

rplat on January 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Hey, this is all about lodges wasted tax dollars on the Juice. If he had those dollars back he could hire real Mexicans to mow his American only yard.

BL@KBIRD on January 3, 2009 at 3:27 PM

If Israel does not end this operation by permanently annexing at least a one mile strip out of northern Gaza (never to be negotiated over – never ever), then this operation will have been a failure.

progressoverpeace on January 3, 2009 at 3:27 PM

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 3:22 PM

You think those 58,000 lives lost were worth it, do you?

We lost the Vietnam war and left a brutal communist regime in charge. Today, they are westernized. Just think, we could still have those 58,000 Americans alive today and the goal of defeating communism would still have been achieved.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:33 PM

We lost Vietnam because we quit.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:35 PM

You think those 58,000 lives lost were worth it, do you?

We lost the Vietnam war and left a brutal communist regime in charge. Today, they are westernized. Just think, we could still have those 58,000 Americans alive today and the goal of defeating communism would still have been achieved.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:33 PM

1) We did not lose
2) When fools like you demanded we remove our troops after the Vietcong surrendered they unsurrendered and butchered over 2 million innocent people.
3) Once again I state, you are a disgrace to the US Navy.

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:35 PM

We lost Vietnam because we our politicians quit.

FIFY

dish on January 3, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Back up the thread, lodge said he worked forthe US Navy.
Yeah. Anchor for a rowboat. Same function here.

Also stated conservative. Heh. From outer space or maybe his alternative universe.

IDF may borrow my ID for this operation but I like the concept of a “weaponized” toy for Gaza. Perhaps there is some cast lead in the FMJs Gaza will soon enjoy.

Flying Israeli Flag

Caststeel on January 3, 2009 at 3:39 PM

for the

Flying Drinks Aboard Pennant

Caststeel on January 3, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Dorian- gotta wonder if lodge is not a sufferer of dementia. His type demanded we quit and not only were millions murdered but the thousands of friends of the USA were put into camps and re-educated. I suspect lodge is cool with this.

http://www.yale.edu/seas/bibliography/chapters/chap9.html

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:41 PM

1) We did not lose
2) When fools like you demanded we remove our troops after the Vietcong surrendered they unsurrendered and butchered over 2 million innocent people.
3) Once again I state, you are a disgrace to the US Navy.

1. Wikipedia says we did. I think a commie takeover of South Vietnam and a US withdrawal signifies a defeat – but I’m trying to look at it from an objective perspective.
2. I didn’t demand anything, I wasn’t even born. As for the 2million people killed, well, millions more were killed in China and the Soviet Union but we didn’t go to war with them. Not to mention Rwanda and Darfur.
3. Why don’t you enlist instead of warmongering from your armchair then? Contrary to hollywood, a lot of us in the military enlisted to serve our country and defend the homeland, not burn through taxpayer dollars on the pet wars of crazed politicians. Of course, no-one ever says this publicly. ;)

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Exit answer: Yes. Typical Muslim cognitive dissonance promulgated ever since Nassar lost the Six Days War got his sorry butt handed to him by the IDF in an Egyptian helmet.

Exit question 2: Did Israel wait until the weekend news cycle to launch the ground assault?

Word to the wise: Israel, have the stones not to repeat this nonsense.

locomotivebreath1901 on January 3, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Now that IDF is finally moving, Northern Gaza is a good place. Will Egypt open their border to let the rats escape? How about some outbound only sea traffic to GOK? Yemen, Somalia? Consolidation there would be okay.

Maybe Cynthia McKinny can provide some transport.

Flying Jolly Roger

Caststeel on January 3, 2009 at 3:49 PM

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Didn’t your high school history teacher flunk you last June for citing Wikipedia as a reference?

dish on January 3, 2009 at 3:51 PM

you may recall that CNN was still praising and pandering to Saddam even after our soldiers were dying in combat. If that network had any guts or character it would declare itself as an anti American entity so everyone would know precisely it they stands.
rplat on January 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM

It was CNN anchor Peter “Saddam’s best buddy” that got caught making deals with Saddam not to report negatively on him during the first Gulf war so that they could have inside access and stay up on their roof.
How ethical.

The majority of the press are nothing but liberal activists
who haven’t met a dictator or terrorist they didn’t like.

The only way they will protest against the Hamas,Hezbollah’s and Hugo’s is if they come out against gay marriage.

Well maybe not even then,Obama,Hillary,and Biden are against gay marriage and get nothing but a pass while they
go after the “evil” Christians.

Israel knows it has to decisively defeat Hamas and render it a failure in the eyes of the Arab world.
Much like we humiliated Al-qaeda in Iraq.

If they have to take action against Iran in the near future,this will at least keep some pressure off of them from Gaza.

Baxter Greene on January 3, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Two Flags I support.

‘Nuf Said.

Caststeel on January 3, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Wikipedia says we did. I think a commie takeover of South Vietnam and a US withdrawal signifies a defeat – but I’m trying to look at it from an objective perspective.

The U.S. withdrew in 1973 under peace accords, the same sort of accords which ended the Korean War. Now normally a peace settlement with your original territory intact (in this case South Vietnam) signifies a victory – but I’m trying to look at it from an objective perspective.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM

We lost the Vietnam war and left a brutal communist regime in charge. Today, they are westernized. Just think, we could still have those 58,000 Americans alive today and the goal of defeating communism would still have been achieved.

Apply that logic to communist North Korea.

Please provide links for the rampant westernization occurring in that garden spot of a nation.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Apply that logic to communist North Korea.

Please provide links for the rampant westernization occurring in that garden spot of a nation.

The 50,000 US troops and the mines that have been there for 50 years?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Please provide links for the rampant westernization occurring in that garden spot of a nation.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Lodge you were just PWND. I noticed you decided to not respond. Your idiocy is something to behold.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 4:10 PM

This must be the Czech guy. He better watch his back. lol

Blake on January 3, 2009 at 3:15 PM

I’m impressed, usually they shout “roll over, roll over”, now I’m just half ashamed too be an European.
The folks from east europe remember oppression.

the_nile on January 3, 2009 at 4:10 PM

This must be the Czech guy. He better watch his back. lol

Blake on January 3, 2009 at 3:15 PM

In a sane world he’d be man of the year, 2009.

Tensions recently erupted between Mr Klaus and Brussels when a private meeting with senior MEPs descended into a slanging match after they presented him with an EU flag and said that they were not interested in his Eurosceptic views.

Mr Klaus responded: “No one has spoken to me in this style and tone in my six years here. I thought these methods ended for us 18 years ago. I see I was wrong.”

The old Europeans and the young and dumb new ones try to hide this man, go figure.

Entelechy on January 3, 2009 at 4:11 PM

The 50,000 US troops and the mines that have been there for 50 years?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Yeah , and the alternative is?

the_nile on January 3, 2009 at 4:12 PM

The folks from east europe remember oppression.

the_nile on January 3, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Not all of them. Many, especially the young, are just as much in the crotch of Obama as our ideaslistic nitwits, who’re clueless about those oppressive systems. See my link in 4:11, in this thread.

Entelechy on January 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Yeah , and the alternative is?

Remove those US troops and the minefield, and see what mother nature determines!

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM

3. Why don’t you enlist instead of warmongering from your armchair then? Contrary to hollywood, a lot of us in the military enlisted to serve our country and defend the homeland, not burn through taxpayer dollars on the pet wars of crazed politicians. Of course, no-one ever says this publicly. ;)

You said that your are not commissioned, with startegic foresight like that I guess you never will be. Also you are about as conservative as Sarkozy is…

TrueBrit on January 3, 2009 at 4:18 PM

“The one” is not a very patriotic way to decribe our new President.

Anyhoo, after they throw rocks at tanks and Israel gets their regime change, it is Hillary’s turn to try for peace.

The cycle continues.

getalife on January 3, 2009 at 4:23 PM

You said that your are not commissioned, with startegic foresight like that I guess you never will be. Also you are about as conservative as Sarkozy is…

I believe government should be for the Rule of Law, public roads and national defense. Constitutionally sized. Jeffersonian.

Tell me how that isn’t conservative, please. This should be good.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Remove those US troops and the minefield, and see what mother nature determines!

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM

A million NorK troops bumrushing across the 38th and Seoul in NorK hands by sundown noon of the first day?

SuperCool on January 3, 2009 at 4:25 PM

My guess is Israel acted now so O wouldn’t have to sign off on it, but by the sound of things he is going to be faced with it. This is just one of many very serious situations going on right now. Hope he enjoyed his vacation cause reality is about to come home to roost big time. I think a Russian revolt is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Done That on January 3, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Personally, I’m up for another anti-Communist purge, this time aimed at the media and the colleges. Who’s with me?

Ryan Gandy on January 3, 2009 at 1:56 PM

Count me in, let’s not forget to include the Islamists in our countries as well.

It might be worthwhile for people to watch Geert Wilder’s short movie Fitna if they haven’t already just to remind ourselves of the medieval barbaric enemy our civilization is fighting.

thinkagain on January 3, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Done That on January 3, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Why does O have to “sign off on it”? Israel are a sovereign nation, not a US outpost.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:27 PM

enlisted to serve our country and defend the homeland…, well get on with it and stop bitching about it.

TrueBrit on January 3, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Lodge, do you remember reciting this when you enlisted?:

I am a United States Sailor.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.

I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.

I proudly serve my country’s Navy combat team with honor, courage, and commitment.

I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

Are these just empty, meaningless words to you?

How have your comments here shown that you represent “the fighting spirit of the Navy” or that you are proudly serving your country’s navy combat team with honor – that you’re defending freedom and democracy?

As a Vietnam era vet who was drafted during a war that I did not particularly want to part of, I have to say that, coupled with the career you’ve freely chosen, I find your holier-than-thou, shallow, and naive comments repulsive.

A man of honor true to his beliefs would resign. But you won’t do that, will you? You’ll stand behind “your freedom” to express your opinion while, puffed up by your self-centered arrogance, choose when and where it’s right for you to defend that freedom … if at all.

You joined the Navy not to serve your country but because it served you to join … right?

Rod on January 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM

This must be the Czech guy. He better watch his back. lol

Blake on January 3, 2009 at 3:15 PM

Vaclav Klaus remembers the oppression of communism and his interviews are very telling.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM

ROTFLMAO…. Quoting Wikipedia as a source…. You loose…

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 4:29 PM

I believe government should be for the Rule of Law, public roads and national defense, OK yet you presume that you understand all facets of national defence, what arrogance, you could be a European leader!!!

TrueBrit on January 3, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Two Flags I support.

‘Nuf Said.

Caststeel on January 3, 2009 at 3:55 PM

And here is a nice tribute to the IDF

JetBoy on January 3, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Rod on January 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM

I see nothing in there about warmongering.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:32 PM

We have a little expression down here in Texas, “You messed with the bull, now here come the horns.”

So far, Israel’s response has been measured.

Sir Andrew on January 3, 2009 at 4:32 PM

Update: The JPost says the goal of the operation is to destroy Hamas infrastructure and seize control of launching pads in the north. For how long, though? Until they pull out in two weeks and the pads are re-seized by Hamas?

Wouldn’t the point be to destroy the launch pads?

Sir Andrew on January 3, 2009 at 4:33 PM

I would think that they have lost of tunnels filled with missiles that need to be destroyed, that is the reason for the incursion.

TrueBrit on January 3, 2009 at 4:35 PM

Maybe I’ll get my wish….

I am not against Israel’s latest attempt to secure itself. I am also not naive enough to think that it will work, especially in Gaza.

Gaza is approximately 5×25 miles in size, sealed on all sides. Unless Israel is prepared to march three lines of soldiers shoulder to shoulder, five feet apart, the length of Gaza searching every square inch of ground allowing only women and children to pass through their lines while forcing every man into a dead end they have no chance of long term success. During this march, needing about 5000 troop per line, all the Hamas leaders need to be executed on the field (they were trying to escape), all weapons caches destroyed and every man bearing arms shot. Then and only then might there be peace. A very long shot indeed.

Afterwards they should try to buy all of Gaza from the remaining residents most of whom are probably renters. Long term there is no way Israel will ever be stable with a Hamas ghetto inside itself.

patrick neid on December 30, 2008 at 12:34 PM

patrick neid on January 3, 2009 at 4:40 PM

Contrary to hollywood, a lot of us in the military enlisted to serve our country and defend the homeland, not burn through taxpayer dollars on the pet wars of crazed politicians. Of course, no-one ever says this publicly. ;)

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Hollywood? You’re quoting Hollywood? They’re even less authoritative than wikipedia.

And just what do you think “defending the homeland” is? Letting you choose which war you’ll fight in? That’s the President’s job (ever heard of “the Constitution”?) and your job (once you enlist) is to fight. It was my job once, as it was millions of veterans before me. The vast majority of them served the country with honor (a word you don’t seem to understand).

As for that “pet war” you’re talking about, it has liberated 25 million people. It is even possible we’ll have a (semi)stable democracy in the middle east (even libtards can see that’s a very desirable thing). Or were you talking about Vietnam again? You weren’t even born then, remember? Did you get your history from Hollywood?

I believe you’re a soldier about as much as I believe McCain is a conservative. And according to all my Army buds, your views are common to a tiny minority. That’s why you and your ilk never say this publicly. You know it’ll end in a blanket party.

Your trolling is welcome, though. Comic relief and all that.

Squiggy on January 3, 2009 at 4:41 PM

Squiggy on January 3, 2009 at 4:41 PM

You know, this lodge character reminds me an awful lot of Scott Thomas Beauchamp. Who, as well all know was a fat mouthed liar whose feet stank and didnt believe in Jesus.

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 4:46 PM

This isn’t just about Israel and Hamas. It’s about Western civilization vs Islamists. Islamists are very patient in achieving their goal-the goal being the total domination and subjugation of non-Muslims; and in Israels case, their complete annihilation.
They don’t make any secret of this. We Westerners just don’t want to hear it.

Kill. Them. All.

CarolynM on January 3, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Since Hamas operates as an arm of Iran…Wouldn’t this be a great time to take out that Islamic state? If we’re gonna get ‘em, let’s get ‘em all at once.

You wanna jihad? You gotta jihad!

JetBoy on January 3, 2009 at 4:49 PM

Remove those US troops and the minefield, and see what mother nature determines!
lodge on January 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Mother Nature wouldn’t determine anything, 100,000 artillery pieces sighted on Seoul would.

Seriously…WTF? We left a communist regime in place in North Korea, a regime that left to its own devices hasn’t exactly been embracing westernization. As for Vietnam becoming a model for what can be done if everyone just left them alone, I’m thinking you probably didn’t live in Vietnam during the communist takeover.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:50 PM

Contrary to hollywood, a lot of us in the military enlisted to serve our country and defend the homeland, not burn through taxpayer dollars on the pet wars of crazed politicians. Of course, no-one ever says this publicly.

I didn’t join the military thinking the only thing I would ever do is man a beachfront bunker, waiting for an invasion.

How deluded do you need to be to believe the USA isn’t in the business of supporting it’s national defense by taking the fight beyond the continental United States? We’ve been doing it since the revolution. You and I both joined the Navy, though it seems I’m the only one who understands the concept of force projection via battle group.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM

As for that “pet war” you’re talking about, it has liberated 25 million people. It is even possible we’ll have a (semi)stable democracy in the middle east (even libtards can see that’s a very desirable thing).

That is the problem with conservatives; they see democracy and libs see communism.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM

CarolynM on January 3, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Applause.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Lodge’s ‘mother nature’ comment only serves as proof of his ignorance. Such silliness.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Israel should have never given up that Gaza strip lo those many years ago. Godspeed to them!

SouthernGent on January 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Letting you choose which war you’ll fight in? That’s the President’s job (ever heard of “the Constitution”?)

Actually, that belongs to congress. Maybe you should read the the constitution before invoking it?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM

Actually, that belongs to congress. Maybe you should read the the constitution before invoking it?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM

The closest you have ever come to being a soldier is playing with GI Joes is your moms room.

CarolynM on January 3, 2009 at 5:05 PM

We’ve been doing it since the revolution. You and I both joined the Navy, though it seems I’m the only one who understands the concept of force projection via battle group.

Bishop on January 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM

I think that the only way that we stopped the muslim Barbary pirates was with a forced projection.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 5:08 PM

CarolynM on January 3, 2009 at 5:05 PM

You know you’ve won the argument when the petty insults begin. *pats self on back*

Peace out.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Actually, that belongs to congress. Maybe you should read the the constitution before invoking it?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM

Which obviously explains why the President is called the Commander in Chief and has the legal right to send the Marines any where in the world at a moments notice.

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 5:09 PM

The point of the war, eloquently stated by a commenter at Commentary: “The military campaign as a whole to the extent that it is conducted effectively, will greatly reduce the number of people existing right now who wish to and are capable of harming Israel. On its own terms, that’s all it can accomplish, and that’s enough. Whether it makes a few people angry in Pakistan is an incalculable-unless, for reasons of your own, you wish to give those who can rent a mob, buy colorful anti-Israel banners, and get themselves on CNN veto power over Israeli policies.”

Role through and kill anyone who shoots at you. Fair enough. Is it bad of me that I see no problem with comparing this to culling a herd?

Count to 10 on January 3, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Actually, that belongs to congress. Maybe you should read the the constitution before invoking it?

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM

Nice try. Congress declares the war, but the President manages it. He’s the one who chooses who goes to fight it.

Don’t forget – YOU were the one talking about “pet wars of crazed politicians” (and I somehow doubt you were referring to John Kerry, or Hillary, or any of the other leftists who voted to authorize the war).

Squiggy on January 3, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Peace out.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Are you sure that you are not from Austin.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 5:17 PM

over and out … going to Human Events and other sites not run by blind Zionists …

corona on January 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM

over and out … going to Human Events and other sites not run by blind Zionists …

corona on January 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM

So it is your assertion that Israel does not have the right to defend herself.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM

over and out … going to Human Events and other sites not run by blind Zionists …

corona on January 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Buh-bye, don’t let the door hit you in the a$$

conservnut on January 3, 2009 at 5:23 PM

I just love the Czach presidency, at last real leadership…

TrueBrit on January 3, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Lodge seems to be a “conservative” of the Ron Paul ilk. Many of his comments are either direct quotes or close paraphrases of Paul.

Nobody with any sense wants war, ever. But sensible people do understand that there are times when it is required to get rid of those who use it to mask their deficiencies in ruling their own country.

Scapegoatism was around along time before Hitler used it to begin garnering the political capital he used to take over Germany and then plunge the world into horrific war. I wonder what the world would look like now, had Winston Churchill been heeded, instead of the well meaning but hopelessly naive “Peace in our time” Chamberlain?

Webrider on January 3, 2009 at 5:27 PM

over and out … going to Human Events and other sites not run by blind Zionists …

corona on January 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Oh no, Hot Air is going to lose another anti-Semite. Whatever shall we do.

Lance Murdock on January 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM

you nailed it. lodge is very childish.

Jamson64 on January 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Yes. He’s a carbon copy of all the Wiki-educated types that our society creates by the millions these days. Most everyone I know personally, including family members, are Lodges. Hopefully he is still in his twenties, and has plenty of time to ripen and mature into a independent thinker. Then he’ll realize that questions such as what really happened in Vietnam, or what was the Bush administration really like, require plenty of independent searching through the MSM/academic smokescreen. I know Lodge. He’s like my brother. A walking Time magazine.

JiangxiDad on January 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM

Israel invades Gaza; Update: “A lengthy operation”

Take your time do it right!

Dr Evil on January 3, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Blue print.

Dr Evil on January 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM

One can only hope the Israeli’s have the courage to follow that blue print.

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 5:39 PM

over and out … going to Human Events and other sites not run by blind Zionists …

corona on January 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Poor corona, it looks like those “evil” Jooooos have taken over Human Events too.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30122

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30115

Lance Murdock on January 3, 2009 at 5:40 PM

I think that the only way that we stopped the muslim Barbary pirates was with a forced projection.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Something having to do with Stephen Decatur threatening to level Algiers into the dirt I believe…

Worked for him…works for me.

Matt Helm on January 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM

Godspeed to Israeli defense; the only good defense is a good offense.

Israel should have never given up that Gaza strip lo those many years ago. Godspeed to them!–SouthernGent on January 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM

+1
With Arabs, Israel’s good deeds never go unpunished. It was a foolish exercise in futility that was at the time a gross error in judgment to give Gaza away. The Palestinians will never be placated, no matter how much they are given or how much they take.

Note well that though Iran gives Hamas the arms, training and supportive propaganda to attack Israel as though to decimate, Iran in playing the Palestinians like pet fools merely to aggravate the MidEastern and global conflicts to Iran’s own ends, to rule the world themselves. So are Hamas Muslims of the same sect of Islam as the predominant Iranians? And how committed to any one sect of Islam is Hamas, anyway? Does it fluctuate according to whoever is leading the movement?

Considering how Iran has stuck its forces into Iraq over these recent years, and how Obama will allow them to deal with Iraq without our likely intervention, I’m glad that Israel is standing its ground against Iranian via Palestinian conflict attack.

It’s going to be the worst hell ever if Obama creates a traditional war against the Iranian/Taliban/al-Qaeda assassination and take-over of Pakistan/Afghanistan mountain tribal populations/regions. If Obama wants to prove his world citizenship, let him take the advice from the French (Napoleonic Wars), British (Victorian rule), and lessons from the modern 20th-Century Russian aggression into Afghanistan. It would be a lot simpler to decimate Iran than the wild mountain regions between Pakistan/Afghanistan. Removing all support from the Afghanistan/Pakistan-nuclear terrorists is the only way to then impose an international embargo. Question: would Putin bite off Mother Russia’s nose to spite her face by allowing/supporting nuclear Pakistan/Afghanistan terrorists simply to bring down the USA AND THE WORLD?

maverick muse on January 3, 2009 at 5:42 PM

I read an article in the Australian newspaper that suggests that part of the reason why Israel is doing this is because they are concerned that Hamas’s rockets may be capable of reaching the Nuclear Reactor at Dimona soon.

Dreadnought223 on January 3, 2009 at 5:50 PM

I don’t think there is a simple metric to determine if Hamas is defeated, but “winning” is another story entirely. If Israel can conduct the ground invasion in a manner that makes it abundantly clear to civilians that they respect Palestinians and still damage Hamas enough then that leaves them in a good position. The goal isn’t annihilation, it is destroying their legitimacy…that’s the killer in 4th generation war as I see it. A 2nd generation measurement like a “Battle Damage Assessment” is worthless if the Palestinians still want Hamas in power. Cut off the snake’s head and do it in a way that respects the people and this whole thing might be possible. Of course for it to work Palestinians will have to make future political decisions that involve coexisting with Israel…something I’m not so confident of.

Wishful thinking.

blankminde on January 3, 2009 at 5:51 PM

The Democrat scumbags will not be able to negatively affect Israel in three weeks. Virtually all weapon systems used in the attack are produced by non-American sources. The days when they were running around with American planes, tanks, and small arms are long over. Today, all Israel needs is money, and they can get that without Washington’s direct contribution. Barry may be a disaster for us, but not for Israel!

John Adams on January 3, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Not all of them. Many, especially the young, are just as much in the crotch of Obama as our ideaslistic nitwits, who’re clueless about those oppressive systems. See my link in 4:11, in this thread.

Entelechy on January 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM

“Ogling Obama’s pecs” is more accurate and less crude than “in the crotch of Obama”. You might even embarrass an undergrad or two by referring to the Holy One’s pecs. And from the pain of embarrassment may come enlightenment.

thuja on January 3, 2009 at 5:56 PM

“lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:54 PM”

u turn to pat b. in this situation?! says volumes right there …

Buckaroo on January 3, 2009 at 6:00 PM

Wow, those lodge comments were something. “Supporting the Troops” gradually was mutated so that it meant you could actively sabotage US interests from positions of elected power while hiding behind your alleged support. It is disgusting. More disgusting are people that hide behind their military service, using it to support indefensible ideas. Warmongering? Really lodge? I will cheer every single time a sovereign nation attacks a gang like Hamas. I wish America had those balls. The last ramparts of civilization are manned against entities that threaten the sovereignty of the state from within and without. You’re a coward and a fool. I hope the college money serves you well.

blankminde on January 3, 2009 at 6:05 PM

blankminde on January 3, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Have you noticed that the libs who have served, pad their record. kerry, scott beauchamp, ect..

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 6:12 PM

With all of it’s warts, I would gladly serve in the military again.

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Lance Murdock on January 3, 2009 at 5:40 PM

ROTFLMAO… Yup, that’s pretty much gonna fill lodges mangina with sand.

doriangrey on January 3, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Personally, I don’t think the the Israeli’s give a rat’s ass what The Chosen One thinks.

GarandFan on January 3, 2009 at 6:16 PM

Johan Klaus on January 3, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Yeah that really makes me sick. It doesn’t make their ideas any more palatable and the way they use the bullet on their resume suggests to me that it is like a get out of jail free card. “I’m against the war, but don’t question my patriotism because I was IN the military” basically. I’m not questioning your patriotism Kerry, I’m questioning your motives…which I guess is sort of the same thing depending on what those motives are.

blankminde on January 3, 2009 at 6:17 PM

It seems a lot of people here are missing a really big point. Israel does not care what you think they should do in terms of defending their country. You all can wax philosophical until the cows come home, and your opinions and rants will not matter. America just elected a President with direct ties to some anti-Israel, pro-Islam, and even anti America loonytunes. Israel now knows that they have no choice but to beat the Hamas threat away from their border, on their own and before January 20th. Their near term survival as a nation depends on that. The survival of their children and grandchildren depends on that. They know that if Hamas remains intact and strong once Obama takes office, they will have lost their chance to survive.

So if you want to be philosophical about what is going on, imagine yourself in their place. If you made a different decision than the one they have made, you are probably too stupid for anyone to take what you think seriously.

MikeA on January 3, 2009 at 6:18 PM

Question: Are we to infer from the timing that Obama greenlit the operation?

If it is a highly successful incursion, yes. Otherwise, no.

The One can do no wrong.

(MSM applauds)

fogw on January 3, 2009 at 6:19 PM

reduce the number of people existing right now

Best euphemism evah.

Y-not on January 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM

As a person who lived in Israel for the past 2 years, I can state I’m inclined to prefer a contined Hamas, and thus this operation failure.

Returning to Fatah rule means a return to more insane “Peace talks” with “Moderate” Terrorists – which led Israel this situation for the first place.

Aristotle on January 3, 2009 at 6:25 PM

contined Hamas = contained Hamas rule.

Aristotle on January 3, 2009 at 6:25 PM

You know you’ve won the argument when the petty insults begin. *pats self on back*

Peace out.

lodge on January 3, 2009 at 5:08 PM

I’d like to say you are a complete embarrassment to anyone that’s served in the USN but I know that there is no ‘I’m a LibTard Spastic Toilet Bug’ screening preventing morons like you from joining. I know…I met a few just like you when I was in…

Please shut your pie hole and go away…

You’re a leftard imbecile….

BigWyo on January 3, 2009 at 6:27 PM

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