jeff_from_mpls on December 31, 2008 at 2:26 PM

:)

I concur.

Bee-u-tiful sentiments,Jeff! And Sapwolf,you got his six!
grdred944—what has brought you to this lowly state?

There’s a flame in her heart that the world, and even her own leaders at times, have been unable to extinguish.

jeff_from_mpls on December 31, 2008 at 2:26 PM

… and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

:)

And yet even against this background, I am overwhelmed with the unmistakable ray of light the Catholic Church has carried historically from generation to generation through the Eucharist. You’d have to be Catholic to understand, but I absolutely love this church. There’s a flame in her heart that the world, and even her own leaders at times, have been unable to extinguish.

jeff_from_mpls on December 31, 2008 at 2:26 PM

+1 Exactly how I feel. Only you said it better than I could ever have. Thank you.

Thanks to you, too, Ed, for the review. Like others, was assuming it was a basher but it sounds good now.

Here’s another question – if the movie wanted to address the recent child molestation scandal…

…then why place the film in 1964?

And again, why make the ending ambiguous?

Religious_Zealot on December 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM

Dude, in case you have been in a coma, the cases of sex abuse were mostly during the 60′s, 70′s, and 80′s.

Also, approximately 80% of the cases that had merit were homosexual priests hitting on teenage post-pubescent boys, not pre-pubescent children. That’s why during the scandal, you didn’t here much from the gay community. That’s because the molesters were OVERWHELMINGLY gay. Only 20% of the cases were pedophilia.

Regarding the movie, it seems like an OK DVD queue for Netflix.

… sat by and did nothing while jews were murdered by the tens of thousands is something only someone in that organization can appreciate.

grdred944 on December 31, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Well, the State of Israel disagrees, since they planted an immense orchard honoring Pius that represents the 1000s SAVED by the actions of the Vatican during the war.

Lonevoice on December 31, 2008 at 4:42 PM

Yep. One of the most lied about, misunderstood parts of the Nazi regime is the bs about the Church doing nothing to save Jews. Hogwash. Nobody even came close to helping Jews in Europe like the Catholic Church did.

I’ll agree with that. How someone can be part of an organization that is directly responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people over the past 1000 years and sat by and did nothing while jews were murdered by the tens of thousands is something only someone in that organization can appreciate.

grdred944 on December 31, 2008 at 3:40 PM

Bullshit. Don’t blame deaths caused by temporal forces on the Church. And, tens of millions is WAY overstated too. During Hitler’s reign, no other institution did more to help the Jews escape Nazi death than the Catholic Church. It is estimated 700,000 to 900,000 jews were saved due to the direct efforts of the Church in Europe.

You wanna lie like that, go to HuffPo, DU, and DKos. You’d be at home, maggot.

I just need to know one thing: does Meryl Streep have a crying scene?

Yes.

As I’ve said, I’ve read nothing here that had given me any reason to see it.

Religious_Zealot on December 31, 2008 at 4:47 PM

…I can see your point…Satan’s first…lemme repeat that: FIRST…weapon used against mankind was doubt. Don’t believe me?

…but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die…. (emphasis added)
Genesis 3: 3-4 (ESV)

…so, ol’ Slithery is out there, casting doubt onto the intentions of the Creator, steering mankind into doing what it dearly wants to do that is against the Creator’s expressed command…it’s literally as old as time itself…”Did he really say that? Is it ‘honor thy father and mother”, or can you get by with a cheaper nursing home?”

…so, yet another flick showing that churches are the Bride of Christ, but are still filled on this side of the celestial veil with sinners, the best of them working out their salvation with fear and trembling but the mass of them just gettin’ by…and, because this particular church claims quite a bit of authority unto itself — no less than that of God’s Vicar on Earth and his Magesterium — it’s assailed on the fronts of both that assumed authority and also the normal “you believe in something/what a dolt”….

…but, it doesn’t appear to fall into that trap so much, this movie…and, if its thought-provoking, what’s not good about thinking about your faith…that’s one way to strengthen your faity…you should question what you believe and why you believe it…just do so from a spiritual and not a worldly “how can I cut corners” standpoint….

…and, besides…as they used to advise you to say as hype to draw you into certain horror movies in my youth, it’s only a movie…we’re all too apt today to be offended first, and only deliberative after, if at all…the left’s taught us that…emote on cue, be a good Pavlovian, jump on the chance to be the “offended party”, and so not only draw attention to oneself, but cast off responsiblity as one of the “oppressed”….

…which, in the case of believers, nobody’s buying anymore, if they ever did….

…so, if folks think it’s a good movie, as a movie, great…entertainment isn’t really news, isn’t usually very profound, and is hardly, anymore, entertaining…when something is entertaining…jump on it….

…a victim of its own historical success — you try keeping up the cover-story that you’re synomyous with Christianity, I dare ya! — the Church of Rome is a fruitful source of grist for the anti-religious, anti-moral, anti-authoritarian mill of the situational ethics crowd…so, one might be excused for thinking that this was yet another “Catholicism is inhuman/Catholics are ignorant bigots/as are all Christians, but Catholics first” sort of “expose”, crafted to tug on ones weary, guilt-fatigued heartstrings….

It’s nice to see, from this review, that it isn’t…for the most part, apparently. I like it when a filmmaker can forego the usual shortcuts around thinking and give the moviegoing public something to ruminate one…especially in a genre rife with stereotypes….

…I should’ve known that Hoffman’d be in a corker…he’s always been the guy we’ve always considered De Niro to be: an actor’s actor. Even his bit and minor work — “Boogie Nights” for instance, and “Cold Mountain” — has been brilliant….

…Streep’s a largely over-rated bag, but it’s nice to see her work for a change….

…Viola Davis has been excellent in Tom Selleck’s “Jesse Stone” TV Movies…and I don’t mean the usual “isn’t that pie excellent” or “that color looks excellent on her” sort of excellent…I mean “could save a Tom Cruise vanity-flick” sort of excellent…I mean “hurry back with the popcorn and don’t miss of a minute of this lady on screen” sort of excellent…so, any further footage of this lady’s a must-see….

…so…it’s “once it’s on DVD” for me with this one…but I’d be interested to see if I’m off-base, and should actually take my tired old ass to an actual theater to submit to the experience…seems so….

Won’t see it. I don’t feed liberals, and I would rather have that 2 hours of my life put to better use.

you are easily led.

patrick neid on December 31, 2008 at 5:08 PM

We’re talking about a film…

…let us not get all self-righteous and start throwing out general insults based solely on a disagreement on whether a movie is worth seeing.

If you think the movie is worth seeing, then TELL me why it’s worth seeing.

Don’t just tell me to see it.

Again that is someone else’s synopsis. It is certainly not mine. You should go see it and make up your own mind about what she has doubts about.

patrick neid on December 31, 2008 at 4:35 PM

I haven’t seen the movie or the play, but after reading the wikipedia descriptions of both, I got the impression she had doubts about something else.

It sounds like a typical dramatic hand-wringing Hollywood film where there is never any absolute truth, just shades of gray and shades of doubt.

Religious_Zealot on December 31, 2008 at 4:47 PM

Religion is about faith. The struggle to come to terms with that faith is doubt. What’s wrong with an artistic or intellectual examination of that struggle? I’m pretty that theme is as old as religion itself.

Perhaps you prefer movies and books that spell out for you an absolute truth. If that’s your preference, then see whatever movies fit the bill. I haven’t seen this movie, so I don’t know if I think it’s any good or not. However, I personally think real people are shades of gray, a combination of good parts and bad parts, and prefer movies with characters that are not one-dimensional (i.e. either simply “good” or simply “bad”).

Religious_Zealot on December 31, 2008 at 4:47 PM

you are easily led.

When non-Catholic Christians do something goofy, like televangelism, all my protestant friends take themselves off the hook: “oh, that’s those other protestants, not us, so you see, we’re not like that, there are thousands of denominations, you see.”

A false teacher is a false teacher regardless what denomination he or she represents. Father Fleger is a good example. And I dont take myself off the hook – i denounce the health, wealth prosperity preachers as often as I can. If a Baptist preacher is preaching false doctrine I’ll denounce him too.