Slavery spreads from Africa to the US
posted at 9:40 am on December 29, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The AP’s Rukmini Callimachi gives a heartbreaking report on a phenomenon that has spread to the US and Europe but has not garnered much attention. Wealthy immigrants from African countries have child labor imported to the US, where they work as slaves to the families who host them. Their sponsoring families, and even their biological families, say they should be grateful to have a higher standard of living than what they would have otherwise had in poverty, but the abuse and damage done is obvious:
The trafficking of children for domestic labor in the U.S. is an extension of an illegal but common practice in Africa. Families in remote villages send their daughters to work in cities for extra money and the opportunity to escape a dead-end life. Some girls work for free on the understanding that they will at least be better fed in the home of their employer.
The custom has led to the spread of trafficking, as well-to-do Africans accustomed to employing children immigrate to the U.S. Around one-third of the estimated 10,000 forced laborers in the United States are servants trapped behind the curtains of suburban homes, according to a study by the National Human Rights Center at the University of California at Berkeley and Free the Slaves, a nonprofit group. No one can say how many are children, especially since their work can so easily be masked as chores.
Once behind the walls of gated communities like this one, these children never go to school. Unbeknownst to their neighbors, they live as modern-day slaves, just like Shyima, whose story is pieced together through court records, police transcripts and interviews.
Shyima is one of the fortunate ones freed from slavery. She now refuses to speak in Arabic and has cut off all ties with her family in Egypt for selling her into bondage to pay off medical bills incurred by the family. Her parents and siblings see it differently. Despite being confined to a garage with no light, heat, or air conditioning, her mother claimed that it still beats living in their Egyptian tenement. Shyima’s sisters insist that she got opportunities they will never know by working as a child slave to the doctor and his wife, who both spent more than two years in American prisons for their crime and got deported after their release.
While working for the Ibrahims, Shyima never went to school. She worked from sunrise to well into the night. Neighbors recall seeing her washing dishes until midnight on occasion, although it never crossed their minds that she was doing anything other than normal chores. She did all the laundry but could not wash her own clothes or bedding in the machines; Shyima had to wash her own laundry in a bucket outside the garage and hang-dry the clothes. Until an anonymous caller tipped Child Protective Services to her plight, Shyima never thought of escape — and in fact was so afraid of what would happen to her that she lied to investigators for months while they pieced together what had happened to her.
Now Shyima is free, but no one really knows how many more like Shyima are in the US or Europe, locked behind the doors of homes, unable to call for help and unknowing that they should.
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Don’t we have to respect their culture?
Surely we should not IMPOSE Western ideals upon them.
artist on December 29, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Hey, well slavery is acceptable to others who have been raised in non-western, more authentic cultures, so who are we to judge?
They’re probably appalled we permit the slaughter of children in the womb.
Whatever floats your boat. Let’s be tolerant, people.
NoDonkey on December 29, 2008 at 9:45 AM
people forget that if it wasn’t for people like Wilberforce, slavery would be worldwide today. it is especially practiced in muslim countries.
and yes we should impose our culture on them…they sure as hell want to impose their culture (islam) on us.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 9:47 AM
I am sure there is someone out that who, like homosexuality and pedeophilia, will argue that owning slaves is a civil right.
BohicaTwentyTwo on December 29, 2008 at 9:50 AM
I wish I could, before man AND before God, get away with whacking the next ten people that talk to me about respecting other cultures upside the head with a crowbar. This is revolting.
Ryan Gandy on December 29, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Disgusting.
becki51758 on December 29, 2008 at 9:53 AM
You have to read the whole article. At the very end the reporter reveals that the woman who held her as a slave is now out of prison and apparentely has a new child to do her bidding. They see nothing wrong and it looks like time behind bars is not enough to discourage them either.
And yes the article never once uses the Muslim word, but rather sticks to using African to described the problem, which for readers in America conjours up a far more different mental picture.
Just A Grunt on December 29, 2008 at 9:54 AM
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Yup. Sad that the only thing people do today is smear him to one end of the world and then the next.
Ryan Gandy on December 29, 2008 at 9:55 AM
+ 1
Disturb the Universe on December 29, 2008 at 9:55 AM
We are still paying for the slaves that were here over hundred years ago, and thousands of lives were lost to free them.
Now we have a Black\Arab\African\Hawaiian president and he’s for hope and change. I’m sure this will all get fixed after he’s sworn in.
Oh wait…..doesn’t his extended family own slaves? I think if you’re black and or Muslim……it’s cool, baby.
Hening on December 29, 2008 at 9:56 AM
According to some, the U.S. is doing a better job combating this problem than most other countries: http://www.thefuturegroup.org/TFGhumantraffickingvictimsstudy.pdf
NoDonkey on December 29, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Sarcasm?
alex342 on December 29, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Callimachi cannot be moved to call this slavery?
drjohn on December 29, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Waitaminute…Africans enslaving each other? Naw…couldn’t be. The Europeans were the slave masters. Revisionist History says so.
Back to the present. This country has outlawed slavery. These slave owners should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If they claim Diplomatic Immunity, deport them. They are lower than the belly of a snake.
kingsjester on December 29, 2008 at 9:59 AM
All Hail Diversity!
lizzee on December 29, 2008 at 10:00 AM
How many kids do chores at midnight? Better to drop an anonymous dime to CPS than not have it checked out. And if after CPS investigates, if it continues, drop another dime. I got that advice from a CPS worker. Also, you can always call 911 and ask for a “welfare check” anytime you have a suspicion about someone being abused.
Blake on December 29, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Obamalala will put a stop to this!
sheriff246 on December 29, 2008 at 10:03 AM
I’ve said it before: It’s impossible to believe in universal rights to which all people are entitled while at the same time believing all cultures are entitled to equal judgment. That circle just doesn’t square.
flipflop on December 29, 2008 at 10:03 AM
You know what’s heartbreaking Ed? That you, and the author of the article, make no mention of the role Islam plays in all this.
This isn’t some “African” phenomenom-you’ll never see Ethiopian Christians doing this-can someone, ANYONE, say Muslim??
CarolynM on December 29, 2008 at 10:04 AM
I’m sure this is actually true. Which says a heckuva lot about Egypt.
rbj on December 29, 2008 at 10:06 AM
CarolynM beat me to it:
How can you leave out the word “Muslim”, even if the AP did so?
The Koran is full of instructions on how to obtain and treat slaves.
I guess this is like the story that broke last week about how the Muslim terrorists in Mumbai sexually mutilated the rabbi and his pregnant wife. It was nowhere to be seen on HotAir. I was very disappointed.
fivefeetoffury on December 29, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Another shining example of the beauty of Islam….i’m sorry….did I type that out loud?
awake on December 29, 2008 at 10:09 AM
The most awful thing about it is the postscript at the end. Apparently, the evil Egyptian family has learned nothing from losing $73,000 dollars and spending two years in jail and is right back at enslaving young girls back in Egypt.
Illinidiva on December 29, 2008 at 10:10 AM
It was primarily Arabs and African tribal leaders who traded and sold blacks to Dutch and other western traders, including those who ended up on American soil. The liberals and black liberals would have the world believe we are the bad guys in this whole race thing. Now we see it is people of color who perpetuate this practice and the MSM does nothing to condemn it. Why, because non-whites are doing it. The MSM, Jimmah Cottah & company caused the shedding of blood of many whites in Rhodesia, even to this day because they felt it was wrong for whites to be in power there. Now that 5 million of those people are starving and/or dying of disease because the health infrastructure and farms are all gone under Mugabe, Cottah, that miserable %$&@@ won’t say a word neither will the MSM. Yes there are special places in hell for these people.
wepeople on December 29, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Respect? We’re supposed to “embrace” their culture.
Buy Danish on December 29, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Saudi Arabia allegedly made slavery illegal in 1962. Yes, a “9″. Recent fatwas by Saudi sheiks say sexual slavery of women (or girls) captured in jihad is just as Islamic as it ever was.
Beagle on December 29, 2008 at 10:16 AM
The issue is the civil rights being deprived to the enslaved or the abused child. Homosexuality or unmarried sex between adults doesn’t cause a similar problem.
dedalus on December 29, 2008 at 10:19 AM
She did all the laundry but could not wash her own clothes or bedding in the machines …
Yeah because the dirty little whore might contaminate the master’s clothes, right?
The master must be some evil right wing rethuglikkkan white Christain … wait, what? An African? Oh, well, uh, he still has to be a Christian, right?
… can someone, ANYONE, say Muslim?? – Carolyn
Sure, most likely, they were MUSLIMS! But hey, that’s their culture, don’t hate!
Sickening.
Tony737 on December 29, 2008 at 10:19 AM
As hinted at by another commenter. These “Africans” are Arabs, and most likely Muslim. But the writer wouldn’t dare say that for fear of the backlash from Arabs and Muslims. So “African” it is.
Wonder if Barry and the race hustlers ( Sharpton, Jackson et al ) are comfortable with liberal writers maligning Africans for fear of upsetting muslim slave owners? Huh? What say you Barry?
RMR on December 29, 2008 at 10:21 AM
My sympathy for these people knows no bounds, they are being physically and emotionally bullied. As for those doing, the modern slavery that exists in laces such as Sudan has been well documented.
rob verdi on December 29, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Obama likes to compare himself to Lincoln. Here’s his chance to prove it. Forever free.
KillerKane on December 29, 2008 at 10:30 AM
The main players in the slave trade were the Arabs, Touaregs, Berbers, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the British, and of course Africans tribes themselves.
aengus on December 29, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Damn.
So how bad does it have to be to sell your kid to be a slave in the US? Perhaps the parents are misled to think life will be all peaches and cream here for them? Maybe dont have kids if it’s that bad there. Just a thought.
Depressing.
Dash on December 29, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Egypt is in North Africa.
aengus on December 29, 2008 at 10:35 AM
This reminds me of what Republicans want to do to the UAW.
SlimyBill on December 29, 2008 at 10:39 AM
No, we are to “submit” to their culture.
CarolynM on December 29, 2008 at 10:39 AM
At least another person educated about the true nature of their faith and rejecting it and quite rightly too. I hope someone decent helps her settle in the USA.
Its Islamic slavery, simple fact…
TrueBrit on December 29, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Only if the slaves are the union workers and the slave holding family is the UAW.
Count to 10 on December 29, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Hey, cool! You managed to take a swipe at slavery and gas-guzzling SUVs, too! ;-)
flipflop on December 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Speakup on December 29, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Classic Simpsons line:
Principal Skinner: “Boy for sale! Boy for sale!
Jimbo Jones: “Hey man, is this legal?”
Skinner: “Just here, and in Mississippi.”
KillerKane on December 29, 2008 at 11:00 AM
And this doesn’t raise any red flags? Berkely? Look at the people in the “Free the Slaves” movement.
Dig into this organization, and I will bet you find a U.N., European based organization.
Funny how when you search for more info, they only have “slave” info concerning the U.S.
I guess we are the only ones with “slaves”?.
And the “Free the Slaves”, David Brewer should be more concerned with the education of his “slaves”. He had his chance as school superintendent in Los Angeles, and botched that.
What you you are reporting Ed is propaganda from a far left group, out to just smear the U.S.
200 million people, and you find all sorts of weird things. This isn’t the only case of “slavery”. Don’t they every year find some weird family with people chained or locked up under cruel conditions?
Don’t prop up these organizations by reporting there inflammatory propaganda.
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Speakup, I read that with cold hatred, I hope that there is a special kind of hell for this dreadful woman.
TrueBrit on December 29, 2008 at 11:05 AM
It’s not as clear and simple to condemn as some of you think. Just like sweat shops aren’t necessarily bad. Compare the alternatives that she had, even if she hadn’t been discovered by the authorities. These were not a “normal” life vs. a life of “slavery”.
AlexB on December 29, 2008 at 11:08 AM
The way slavery is portrayed by the media and academics, you’d think it was a solely American (US) invention.
But the truth is, we only had slavery for 89 years of our history and it was abolished by a Republican and at the cost of many white lives.
We were saddled with the horrid practice as a legacy of English, Dutch, and Spanish influence.
Slavery is still a well established practice in many Arabian and African cultures.
TheSitRep on December 29, 2008 at 11:09 AM
One of my neighbors here on Long Island was recently imprisoned for holding two Indonesian Muslim women as slaves for several years. The slave owners were Indian, although the “mistress” was born in Indonesia. I understand many Philippinas work in nearly the same circumstances in Arabia and the Gulf. A common thread running through these examples is Islam. So while Egypt is indeed in Africa, and Egytians aren’t actually Arabs, I think the intention of the headline to mislead is accurate.
JiangxiDad on December 29, 2008 at 11:11 AM
No, I like the “Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death” stance.
I would rather be free and live in squaller than be a fat slave.
TheSitRep on December 29, 2008 at 11:11 AM
No one it touching on the attitude of the Shyima’s family. Her sisters saw the slavery arrangement as an opportunity. The problem with this ‘opportunity’ is it was an open ended commitment with no time frame or end benefit for the slavee coming from the slaver. It was not so long ago immigrants comming to this country would voluntarily bargian to serve as indentured servants to wealthy benefactors. If you were in a guild (trade union) I think you needed to work for free six years to become a master. If you were just poor you could work off the cost of your voyage,lodging ect. I believe that required minimum of four years. These arrangements were the norm but I’m sure many variations some good some bad occured.
Shyina should retain legal council and go after the wealthy doctor for punitive damages.
Exit question: If the world hates the US so much then how can they see this country as THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY
sonnyspats1 on December 29, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Yes, I am aware that Egypt is in North Africa.
I am also well aware that if this writer – Rukmini Callimachi- didn’t want to foster the idea that this is an “African” problem as apposed to an Arab / Muslim problem he or she would never use this headline – Child maid trafficking spreads from Africa to US. Arab or Muslim are not the first things that come to mind when one hears the word Africa!
RMR on December 29, 2008 at 11:13 AM
This one of those places where it becomes hard to deny that the “multicultural community” is a practical and logical and impossibility.
The sending culture and family were obviously satisfied with the arrangement as the remarks of Shyima’s sisters and mother make clear. From their point of view, Shyima is the lucky one.
I guess Shyima should say for herself if she thinks she’s done well out of it, but I’d say her present situation is far better than what she’d likely have achieved in Egypt.
Incidentally, is she the only person on the planet with the name ‘Shyima’? I looked-up the name, briefly, and found nothing except references to this one girl.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 11:14 AM
The evil bastards that imprisoned her could have at least sent her to school, or, you know, paid her.
RightOFLeft on December 29, 2008 at 11:15 AM
You are right to put U.S. slavery in a global context. We weren’t alone, but we did hold onto it for a half century after Great Britain and the reason so many white lives were lost ending it is that there were almost as many white lives fighting against them.
dedalus on December 29, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Your name would probably result in more hits if you searched using Chinese characters. Anybody have the Arabic handy for “Shyima.”
JiangxiDad on December 29, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Slavery existed in the British American colonies from 1619 onward. The same American colonists who fought the British – with French, Dutch and Spanish help – preserved the institution. It flourished in the mid-19th century only to be destroyed in the costliest war in American history.
KillerKane on December 29, 2008 at 11:22 AM
I searched the article for:
muslim
moslem
islam
mosque
…..and got zero hits.
There’s the problem: denial.
ex-Democrat on December 29, 2008 at 11:23 AM
The most absolute theory ever:
Nothing good for, for the U.S., ever comes out of Berkeley politics.
If I were Ed, I would pull this story or re-write it to state the real intention of this Berkeley “National Human Rights Center”.
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Don’t blame Ed for failing to connect Islam with “wealthy African”. Most in America would not know because Muslims must be protected from backlash, critique and exposure so this info is largely discouraged from dissemination.
Muslims are Americas best friends and Islam is uber cool.
BL@KBIRD on December 29, 2008 at 11:29 AM
I guess “black” is a pejorative. Fuck you.
The Race Card on December 29, 2008 at 11:31 AM
The Race Card on December 29, 2008 at 11:31 AM
I’ll make you some black coffee. You gonna flip out nao?
Ryan Gandy on December 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Kudos to Ed for posting the issue. But I have to say BS to the “…but no one really knows how many more like Shyima are in the US…” line. It should be very easy to do this a a data mining exercise. You cross check visa records with any minor with a I-94 then query the local school system where these people reside to see if the child is in school or not. The nexus of those three factors gives you a hit list to work on.
Dr. Dog on December 29, 2008 at 11:39 AM
I recommend you read Deuteronomy. There you’ll find instructions for all sorts of things.
And then there is this gem:
Leviticus 25:44-46
Apparently, the Bible says we can snatch up the illegal aliens and make them property.
So much for the high horse of Christianity.
Full Disclosure: I am Methodist by birth, agnostic by choice.
BobMbx on December 29, 2008 at 11:40 AM
The slave holders are probably muslims because it is OK with them to have infidel slaves, just like it was 200 years ago. They were the ones that captured and sold the future slaves then; probably not much different now.
DL13 on December 29, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Huh. This of course is ridiculous.
Nothing a person of color does can be considered bad.
After all, their ancestors or people their ancestors knew or people their ancestors knew of, were maltreated by your ancestors or people your ancestors knew or people your ancestors knew of.
notagool on December 29, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Or maybe just reasonably accurate reporting. These people came from Egypt (a mostly Islamic country) and have names that are also used by Muslims but that doesn’t mean that they ever were Muslims, or that they self-identify as Muslims or that they really believe or attempt to follow the teachings of Islam.
Not all Egyptians are Muslims just as not all Italians are Catholic or all Russians communist.
I’m not shy of commenting on what a retrogade force Islam is, but it is not the only inspiration for evil in the world. Some people manage to be perfectly repugnant and selfish without Islam. Besides, as already noted, within their own cultural frame of reference these people were not even being repugnant.
These people might not be Muslims. Islam might not be a factor in this particular case.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 11:42 AM
that should be judaism…don’t know your bible very well now do you?
and if wasn’t for christians like wilberforce, slavery would be worldwide.
get a clue.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Somewhere in this world, as long as there are wealthy people, living a busy lifestyle, and poor people, living in no style, there will be slavery. Much of it is voluntary on the part of the adults concerned, and utilitarian on the part of the slaves themselves.
Going into service, as domestic servants did, was a form of slavery, even though they were usually well looked after. In some of the old Guilds, it was required that payment be made in return for training etc.
All things are relative to the local customs, and in places where life itself is not valued, slavery is a non-issue in terms of human rights.
OldEnglish on December 29, 2008 at 11:43 AM
There are some things that are just unacceptable regardless of culture and this is one of them. Even if she lived with a poor family, I’m sure that her life in Egypt would have been much happier than being mentally and physically abused and worked to exhaustion. As for her family, they are using this argument to justify their actions. The fact that they would even think of sending their daughter into a situation like that is just awful.
Illinidiva on December 29, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Millions of lives were lost to White, Christian trade and commerce in slavery. How are we still “paying” for them? It seems to me that a sizable chunk of contemporary American prosperity is due to slave labor and trade of the past.
That’s not a veiled call for reparations either. Rather it’s a simple retort to your simple-minded insults.
As much I enjoy hearing myself speak, I would much rather see myself bitchslap you across my idyllic breakfast nook.
If you can’t tell when someone is being racially offensive, I feel bad for you. Eventually people like you will harm themselves more than they affect the lives of others.
We don’t drink coffee, we drink the blood of white virgins.
The Race Card on December 29, 2008 at 11:45 AM
very true…but slavery is widespread throughout the muslim world…sudan, mauritania, etc.
slavery has always been around in every culture….it is only recently, thanks to people like wilberforce, that slavery was ended as an above-board trade…it still flourishes in many places…and the sex-slave trade is alive and well….
and with the rise of islam, and the weakening of the west, you see slavery flourishing again…
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Well! I Never!
Children have access to this site.
TheSitRep on December 29, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Ah another affectation of the religion of peace…
Imported from the continent of the peaceful, eternally happy, warm, delightfully holistic, dark-skinned children of the sun…
I mean, if it’s an African cultural practice, then NOTHING could be wrong with it-right..?
RocketmanBob on December 29, 2008 at 11:56 AM
The debate is not between good and bad in any absolute sense, but between better and worse.
It is clear that her family feel that Shyima got the better deal:
In legal terms the situation is very clear: The Ibrahim family were in the wrong, what they did was illegal uinder US law.
In moral terms their wrong-doing is much less clear. They have, according to the relatives, given Shyima a better life than she would have had (and I’d be inclined to agree). They helped Shyima’s father with medical bills and took a legal risk to honour their deal. It isn’t even clear that they acted entirely selfishly since it is possible that Shyima’s family encouraged them to bring Shyima to the USA, seeing that as an even better opportunity for their daughter.
Legal judgement in this case is more or less black and white but the moral assesment requires us to distinguish between several intermingled shades of gray.
This is a fine example of why multicultural-communities cannot work. Moral values are not consistent around the world, nor are economic needs. Better and worse are defined by circumstances, not by carefully worded laws.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:01 PM
I think there are two key points here.
The first is that she was sold.
The second is that the doctor and his wife were treating Shyima like a possession instead of a another person.
Suppose that instead Shyima was allowed to use the washing machines for her own clothes, was given a cot inside the house proper to sleep in, and sent to school. If she was then expected to perform the housework, I think most of us would have a different response. We could see an exchange in kind going on- similar to the indentured servitude that many previous immigrants (including my ancestors) used to get to America.
Instead we had a situation here were this doctor thought he owned her, and therefor was not required to provide her with anything more then necessities- in the same way you feed and care for mule or beast of burden.
Furthermore what was going to happen to Shyima when she got older? The restrictions placed on her strongly suggest they wanted to keep her isolated, ignorant, and vulnerable. Was she going to be free once she reached adulthood? Nothing gives that impression to me.
I’m only pointing this out because I think we should condemn this behavior after rational consideration instead of swift emotional responses that come with words like “slavery”.
Was this slavery? Yes it definitely was, but I think some people are not examining it closely enough to consider what the line is between slavery, domestic service, and household chores.
Sackett on December 29, 2008 at 12:07 PM
YiZhangZhe – So get back to the fields. Can’t you see how better off you are being a slave?
Carefully worded laws like the constitution are what separates the US from the rest of the slave holding tyrannical regimes around the world. But I suppose that is just so much PAP in your mind.
Slavery is evil…
Or is that just another shade of gray.
Kuffar on December 29, 2008 at 12:12 PM
The Ibrahim couple were honouring their side of a ten year contract.
The article makes it clear that Shyima was not in fact imprisoned, but that it simply never occurred to her to run away.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:14 PM
No the Bible said that the ancient Israelites could acquire slaves. Are you an ancient Israelite?
aengus on December 29, 2008 at 12:14 PM
right2bright on December 29, 2008
Having lived in the SF Bay Area for 10 years of my adult life, no one hates Berkley politics more than I do, but I have to disagree with you on this. Ed should not pull this story. The issue of child slavery is already severely under-reported, whether it occurs in the US or abroad or both. Some things are just wrong. Read it with a filter if you must but don’t disregard the facts. Because we live in the most privlidged nation in the world most of us are unaware that this practise exits. But it does, it’s alive and well. Probably for the most part outside of this country, but obviously, always looking for a way in. It puts the screws to USCIS and makes legal immigration more and more difficult. Denial, ignorance or political posturing is the worst we could do.
small town girl on December 29, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Constitution written long before the Civil War?
OldEnglish on December 29, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Shyima was an eleven year old girl in a foreign country who didn’t spoke any language. She was told by her “employers” that if she ran away, that she would be locked up in prison by the U.S. authorities.
I’m against all we must look at the circumstances and accept different cultures. Certain things should be 100% wrong, and I think that we can all agree that slavery and child labor are two of those things.
Illinidiva on December 29, 2008 at 12:27 PM
if you think about it, the whole illegal alien mess in this country is basically a desire to have slaves…serfs…that do work cheaply. slaves were never free, you had to feed, shelter, and clothe them…with illegal aliens you can pay them a pittance, and let the government pay for the rest.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Even if they were treating her well and sending her to school, it would be illegal because of the child labor laws.
Illinidiva on December 29, 2008 at 12:30 PM
He also gave the Commandments to the ancient Israelites. Is there somewhere the Bible scopes God’s law on slavery to only the Israelites? Why would slavery be moral for God’s chosen people but not for other societies?
dedalus on December 29, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Ethnicity aside(though I am not downplaying it a a major cultural cause of this, at least on the supply end)–what kind of people are these? Children smuggled here, no record that they exist and treated like beasts of burden yet they see nothing wrong with this? These have to be people with out conscience, compassion or any sense of right and wrong–and I don’t care what religion or nationality they are. They also have to know that this is a serious crime. This practice is the work of the cruel and evil—period.
jeanie on December 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Which is why, as YZZ said, multiculturalism doesn’t work.
OldEnglish on December 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
So now you can point to a Christian church that supports slavery? (don’t embarrass yourself and note the “Christian Identity” group)
You point to something historical thousands or hundreds of years ago, as if they were yesterday.
It was the Christians who fought so hard, and developed a system (underground railroad) to help the slaves escape. Agnostics and atheists did not participate.
However, I can see you are an agnostic, so whatever the church does good, will not be acknowledged by you.
So much for the “high horse” of agnostics.
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM
OK, this is bad, yes. But…
That is about 3,000 out of 330,000,000 people in the United States. By comparison, 350,000 American women are raped or sexually assaulted each year in the United States but I doubt that will make it to HA unless rapists start blaming Bratz dolls for their actions.
This is beneficial information to most HA readers as it covers the never-ending muslim bashing and immigrant bashing that goes on here, in one thread. These actions and purported slavery are horrendous but less than 1/1000th of the population is affected by this issue. I highly doubt that qualifies as slavery spreading to the U.S.
grdred944 on December 29, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Jesus never condemned slavery, in fact he condoned it. One of the paradoxes of the modern church.
It was the first time that the “Word of God” would be ignored. It caused a split in many churches in America when confronted with the decision of whether slavery was “biblical” or not.
BTW, the same for women rights, and now “gay” rights…
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 12:35 PM
You seemed to have entirely missed the point.
Let me try again: The question that was under discussion was not whether this situation is evil or not evil but whether it is more evil or less evil than what she would have had.
Have you never heard of a situation that required a person to choose “the lesser of two evils“? This is what Shyima’s family did, thus showing that they understood the concept and were willing make difficult choices. They made that choice within the cultural, legal, social, economic, aspirational and moral framework of their lives and environment, not mine, not yours, not that of the USA.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is (or at least can be) a moral choice. In other words whilst the thing chosen might be evil, the act of making that choice is not.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Look where the stats come from…Berkeley, with no supporting facts.
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 12:36 PM
You are correct.
If one is given the choice of sending a child to “child slavery” in Irvine, Ca. Or to a life of despair, poverty and early death…which one would a parent choose?
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Bingo.
BobMbx on December 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM
You are apparently not a Christian…
right2bright on December 29, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Ibrahims … Shyima
umm … ok, I’ll make the point: muslim.
pabarge on December 29, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Many Muslim countries use slave labor. In Saudi, there are tens of thousands of Filipinos working in Saudi homes caring for their massive families for almost no pay whatsoever.
Glynn on December 29, 2008 at 12:44 PM
So the moral choice made by the family was to ensure their debts were paid and give their daughter a good shot at acquiring materialistic things?
Sounds more like a business decision than a “give my child a better life than mine” decision.
BobMbx on December 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM
No. That is precisely the debate, the question the problem. We (the collective population of the world) are not even remotely close to agreeing on those two things. You are simply demanding that the world agree with your view without justifying your demand with a coherent argument.
Furthermore, once you start talking in terms of “100%” it isn’t even possible to give a rational justification.
All over the world children work and do so willingly … because the alternative is starvation. Parents sell their children … because the alternative is their child’s death.
If you want these people to accept your way of thinking you not only need to persuade them that your aspirations and goals for humanity and for them in particular are better then their own (or will you demand that they also abandon independent thinking), but you also need to solve all of the world’s economic and social problems. Until you have accomplished these things your demand that they conform to your standards — decreed from your life of relative comfort, luxury even — is cruel and stupid and therefore evil by your own standards.
Thank you OldEnglish.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Sorry. Too quick on the submit button.
“Darling daughter, we’re sending you to the land of the infidel; the unclean, sinful region known as California. You’ll be much better off there than here, abiding the rules of Islam.”
Did I get that right?
BobMbx on December 29, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Apparently it is common for rich people in Islamic countries (like Saudi Arabia) to “employ” (read keep as a slaves) poor people from other countries–particularly infidel countries like the Philippines.
***
Once the young girls are in the house they may be raped by the master of the house. If they complain they will be deported or subjected to Sharia law–stoning for adultery. Young boys may be used as “camel jockeys” for racing the rich guy’s pet camels.
***
A poor woman from Sudan or Somalia (now safely in the U.S.A.) detailed her life as a slave to a rich family in her own country in National Geographic a few years ago.
***
Slavery is still common in the world–this evil never seems to go away. Why didn’t the evil woman get 5 years in prison for her crime?
***
John Bibb
rocketman on December 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Fair enough.
Have you ever really encountered the soul-destroying, hopeless squalor that comes with the kind of poverty that exists outside the western world?
Some loving parents would be delighted to breach a whole load of western moral sensibilities (and laws) if they thought they could lift their child permanately out of the festering, disease ridden, dead-end waste of a life that such poverty brings. Some of them would probably be willing to go even further and amputate their own limbs if that is what it took.
Love may be universal, but the way it acts depends on local circumstances.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I am sure the reperations hacks will be all over this story…NOT.
RobCon on December 29, 2008 at 1:07 PM
I responded to your first part before I saw part two. Now I’m not sure exactly what your point is but I got a good chuckle out of part two anyway.
And yes, your quote doesn’t seem altogether unreasonable to me!
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 1:09 PM
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