Christians need to drop the gimmicks.

mankai on December 30, 2008 at 6:35 PM

Non-Christians need to drop the cloying self-righteousness.

I recall the cartoon of the man standing on a street corner looking up at a sign that says “No Juggling Machetes”… he turns to his wife and says “Suddenly I feel like juggling a machete.” That is what solely prohibitive law does. You can walk along a path for months… then someone puts up a “Do Not Walk on Grass” sign and suddenly you consider the idea (even if it only a small part of you).

Obedience out of conviction of what is right (and better yet, because of love) is far better than obedience to law (and has a far better chance of success). I feed, clothe, house and educate my children not because the law says I must (which it does) but because I love them. And the guy who does all that because the law makes him is far more likely to perform badly or simply fail.

Christians need to drop the gimmicks.

I fail to see how that’s supposed to clear up anything. You’re still saying that you believe Anna would be cool with her daughter as the town whore even though she spoke directly against that earlier.

I posted that after she quoted me on the original posting that I made right before the correction. If you just read the original post without the immediate correction then it most certainly does look as if I’m directly insulting her daughter. That’s all. Not meant as a rebuttle.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:16 PM

I fail to see how that’s supposed to clear up anything. You’re still saying that you believe Anna would be cool with her daughter as the town whore even though she spoke directly against that earlier.

BTW, there are ways to mention condoms to kids without sounding like you condone having sex as a teen. Putting “but ifs” in it is not one of them.

. I get the feeling you had not read what I had previously wrote, and immediately assumed my position was at odds with yours. Which it’s quite obviously not.

I wonder if you missed my correction after my initial post. As soon as I made that first post I saw how it could be misread and posted a correction right after it.

That should read:

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem with said daughter being the town bicycle!

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Saying I’d be okay with my daughter being the town bicycle is insulting. However, I’ll let that drop because you dropped your aggressive tone. Also, if you weren’t clear about my anecdote, you could have asked for clarification before stating

Hey guys. Got some sons who want to sew their wild oats? Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

. I get the feeling you had not read what I had previously wrote, and immediately assumed my position was at odds with yours. Which it’s quite obviously not.

I told them CONDOM CONDOM CONDOM if you do and NEVER believe a girl who swears she is on the pill. They forget to take them.

See, this is what I”m talking about. That “if you do..” part basically says to them (wether you personally feel this way or not) “Go ahead, have sex”.

At this point, though, I’m quite through with you. You could have got your point across without saying I condone my little girl being a whore. I never said that, and I don’t think highly of people that insult children, especially my own. I was hoping for an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.

Hey, I didn’t insult your daughter. Again, I said what I said to show how you may be coming across. I’m sorry if you feel I did insult your daughter (although, way to assume that I’m not the apologizing type). Perhaps if you would have explained earlier as well as you did on your last post about WHY you said she had a negative view of sexuality then I wouldn’t have said what I said. It’s all about context.

Again, I didn’t insult your child. I may have insulted what I thought was your way of thinking, but I didn’t call your child anything.

Also, I do NOT think poorly of people who don’t stay virgins until they are married. I wasn’t and I’m not proud of (key phrase there) of my sexual past (not premiscuous but not good none-the-less). My wife was a virgin (in every way) until our wedding night (we lived together for 1 1/2 years before getting married and I even spent weekends over at he place before we moved in together). However, I am irritated by the “well, they’re teens so they are going to have sex anyways” attitude of parents.

I dated a girl who’d actually appeared on TV with her then boyfriend in high school. She and he were on the air to demonstrate how so very holy they were to all in Baptist Land (Southeast MO). They’d joined a church group called “Love Waits.” No sex, absitenence, Jesus, peace, love and hair grease.

And after they left the studio, they got it on like little bunnies in the back seat of his car, like they’d been doing for months every chance they got.

scalleywag on December 30, 2008 at 2:34 PM

No one here knows who you are or will ever try and find out. Your sons are nameless as are anyone else’s here.

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 1:17 PM

She already spoke respectfully of those who choose that for themselves, but this was not the case with this woman.

Surely you know of woman who have been pressured or told sex was dirty?

Seriously, Anna’s a good person. There’s no reason to jump on her.

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

She told me point blank that it was not a choice she made, but one her parents made for her. The whole issue came up in class because another classmate got pregnant out of wedlock, and since I had experience in that, some of the younger women wanted me to talk to them about it. It was an enlightening experience, but it did make me feel old. The classmate in question felt secure enough to confide in me her doubts about her beliefs, and yes, she did have a very negative view on sexuality. I only hope one day she realizes that sex is not a duty to her husband, but a wonderful experience to give and recieve.

As to my former promiscuity, it was a mixed bag. I got hurt, but I also ended up with my daughter. I don’t regret it, but I’m not going to encourage my daughter to follow my path. I was not saying that being a virgin was lame. As I previously said, I respect adults that wait until marriage, it must be pretty hard to do. At the same time, not being a virgin on one’s wedding night is not the end of the world.

At this point, though, I’m quite through with you. You could have got your point across without saying I condone my little girl being a whore. I never said that, and I don’t think highly of people that insult children, especially my own. I was hoping for an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.

We’re not religious people, so my family obviously believes differently than yours.

Although I am a christian, I’ve got news for you. Look up “straight edge”. They tend to be atheist. They also tend to abstain from sex.

but I’m not going to tell her she physically belongs to some nebulous future spouse (as my classmate believed),

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

Why the hell would you think it okay to make such an asinine comment about my daughter, especially when I never engaged you in conversation? I

Why don’t YOU read what I said. I said that you saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is “having a negative veiw of her sexuality” is basically advertising to the world that “hey, if you’re a girl, do whatever (and whoever) you like because being a virgin is lame”.

Heck, you already spoke of your promiscuity as if it wasn’ta bad thing.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM

You’ve got a Wii? That’s cool. I played with my 12-year-old cousin’s and she beat me bad at tennis. Then, the next day I woke up sore. I’m out of shape.

I haven’t fallen hard yet, but my husband’s hoping for some tricks. It should be fun.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:37 PM

That’s awesome! Don’t hurt yourself, though. When I got my Wii, I pulled at least 3 muscles in my back/upper arm. Birthdays are the best time to feel like a kid… I still eat cake for breakfast the day after!

interesting-tasting cake

Heh. Well, from your kids I’m sure it was very special. I still remember some of the horrible stuff my mother ate because of us.

With mine, I was actually around family, and suddenly people were giving me gifts again. I felt like a kid. Though it didn’t hurt that my husband got me Heeley’s (those shoes that kids wear with the wheel in the heals). I still need to practice with them though.

Thanks. Happy birthday to you as well. I hope you enjoyed it.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM

The kids baked an interesting-tasting cake, and I got my hair and feet done. It was wonderful, even if it didn’t snow. : )

Happy birthday, by the way.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Thanks. Happy birthday to you as well. I hope you enjoyed it.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Thank you. I was worried there for a moment that I hadn’t been that lucid about my classmate.

I’m starting to remember why I took a 10-day break from the internet. Happy birthday, by the way.

*insult retracted*

I admire your restraint.

I plan on encouraging our children to wait until adulthood to have sex

My daughter’s body is her own, and I do hope to instill a sense of respect for her body into her (it’s something I’ve been working on since birth). I’d rather her wait until she’s emotionally, physically, and legally ready to have sex, but I’m not going to tell her she physically belongs to some nebulous future spouse (as my classmate believed), and that she’ll be a horrible person if she’s not virginal at marriage (I feel the same way about my younger sons). We’re not religious people, so my family obviously believes differently than yours.

Why the hell would you think it okay to make such an asinine comment about my daughter, especially when I never engaged you in conversation? I was responding to Esthier, and if you wished for clarification, you could have asked instead of insulting my family.

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

Is it really necessary to sink to that level when discussing differing opinions? Anna already said she wants her children to wait until they are adults and supports teaching abstinence.

That’s basically what you’re advertising when you say keeping your virginity til marriage is having a nagative view of your sexuality.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Only because you’re distorting what she said. She said that the girl didn’t think her virginity was for herself, only for her future husband. It wasn’t even for her.

Yes, that specifically shows a lack of self respect.

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

That should read:

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem with said daughter being the town bicycle!