Quote of the day

posted at 10:00 pm on December 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

“The study also found that, five years after taking a virginity pledge, more than 80 percent of pledgers denied ever making such a promise. ‘This high rate of disaffiliation may imply that nearly all virginity pledgers view pledges as nonbinding,’ Rosenbaum said.”

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Comment pages: 1 2

Kini on December 30, 2008 at 1:07 AM

The love of my life, Mini Fingers.

Uh, no Mom, I haven’t seen the Vaseline.

and just about every third Woody Allen quote.

hillbillyjim on December 30, 2008 at 1:39 AM

Bailout money………….

…………… put to good use.

/sar ( for those who are new )

Seven Percent Solution on December 30, 2008 at 1:47 AM

I didn’t get a virginity pledge from my boys, but I did get them to wait. I talked to them not JUST about STD’s and pregnancy, I talked to them about really loving the other person before being intimate, about how physical intimacy too soon confuses people into thinking they are in love when they’re not and how much it hurts to find out you were not really in love at all, and about getting to know someone before giving your whole self to them. And I had boys who were good looking, smart, athletic and oh how they were pursued (it’s really sad how sexually active little girls are these days and how young they start…oral at 10, all the way by 12…) In spite of all the pressure, though, my oldest waited until he was 17, my younger until he was 15, when the average age in our neighborhood is probably 12 or 13. And both of them now are fantastic husbands who really love their wives and treat them right. I’m glad I talked my boys into waiting, and that I was real with them about it. It saved them a lot of the pain their friends went through during the teenage years.

Anyway, the point is that the delay is beneficial, and talking to your kids about what’s real and what matters in such a way they they will delay grows them into better, more responsible people.

If a virginity pledge does the trick, I’m all for it whether they stick with it until marriage or not. It is a worthy goal.

JustTruth101 on December 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM

‘This high rate of disaffiliation may imply that nearly all virginity pledgers view pledges as non binding

They are non binding, people under 18 need parental approval to sign a contract. always thought these were a stupid idea anyway,

Tommy_G on December 30, 2008 at 2:08 AM

JustTruth101 on December 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM

Where the hell do you live??

jimmy the notable on December 30, 2008 at 4:50 AM

I mean, oh the horror…of waiting until you’re 15. Gee, what a great mom you were. Did you also make sure they didn’t pay too much for coke?

jimmy the notable on December 30, 2008 at 4:59 AM

I didn’t get a virginity pledge from my boys, but I did get them to wait. I talked to them not JUST about STD’s and pregnancy, I talked to them about really loving the other person before being intimate, about how physical intimacy too soon confuses people into thinking they are in love when they’re not and how much it hurts to find out you were not really in love at all, and about getting to know someone before giving your whole self to them. And I had boys who were good looking, smart, athletic and oh how they were pursued (it’s really sad how sexually active little girls are these days and how young they start…oral at 10, all the way by 12…) In spite of all the pressure, though, my oldest waited until he was 17, my younger until he was 15, when the average age in our neighborhood is probably 12 or 13. And both of them now are fantastic husbands who really love their wives and treat them right. I’m glad I talked my boys into waiting, and that I was real with them about it. It saved them a lot of the pain their friends went through during the teenage years.

I’ve got news for you. If your youngest had sex at the age of 15, he didn’t “wait”.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 6:31 AM

I support abstinence education in concept and in a proper context. My daughter went to Catholic school all the way through high school, but I only guess they taught it there. My goal was to teach my child personal responsibility and self-control and not leave it to the schools (my responsibility, not theirs). I wanted her to know the facts and make the right choice with all the information at hand. I told her that people have sex because it’s pleasurable. They also do drugs for the same reason, and both can impact your future or kill you under certain circumstances. She has always known that these decisions are hers alone and it is a test of her will and her strength how she responds to internal and external pressures. She chooses wisely because she does not live to “just do it” without regard for the future. She knows exactly who she is and knows her value to God and herself. She chooses not to cheapen herself with drugs, alcohol or casual sex. If I’d had her strength when I was her age perhaps I would be carrying a smaller sack of regret. And no, she does not know the sins of my youth. Not one bit of that knowledge would help her. Think I’m a hyprocrite or liar for that? Think again. “Truth” is not the outpouring of your past indiscretions. You do not help your children by dumping your past failures on them. But by using the lessons you’ve learned from those failures you help them forge armor against them in their lives. “Truth” is what you learned from your past and impart to your children. The details of your past are your business. Keep it there.

SKYFOX on December 30, 2008 at 6:48 AM

In Ireland, there is a tradition for children at 12 years of age to take a pledge “not to ever touch a drop of alcohol.” Some people actually follow the pledge all of thier life. I can remember farmers coming into my uncle’s pub in Cork who never had anything harder than an orange soda but wanted to be part of the pub life. Of course, all of my cousins took the pledge, but none of them lasted much too longer after taking the pledge. But at least they didn’t deny ever making the pledge in the first place.

As for those who make fun of the pledge, I would argue that it is still a good idea to create a high bar for children concerning sexual relationships even if we know that they will not always pass it. If you set the bar too low and they fail to live up to that lower bar, the results may be even worse.

RedSoxNation on December 30, 2008 at 7:40 AM

chances are you will eventually find yourself in a compromising position with the opposite sex.

HYTEAndy on December 29, 2008 at 10:29 PM

I’m an old dude and I’m still trying to perfect that skill.

csdeven on December 30, 2008 at 7:58 AM

I’ve got news for you. If your youngest had sex at the age of 15, he didn’t “wait”.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 6:31 AM

2 Corinthians 10:12
We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise.

Right_of_Attila on December 30, 2008 at 8:36 AM

Of course these pledges don’t often last, as we are fighting our sinful nature. But there are two points to the pledge. We make our teens aware that we consider premarital sex sinful and that they are knowingly sinning. And we teach them the meaning of a pledge and the value of their word.

Then there is the value of teaching the value of repentance. They may make a mistake and give in to their urges, but repent and try to get back into Godly behavior. There is forgiveness for repented sin; and we struggle with some sins our whole life. But God is merciful, forgives repented sin, and we can try to go forward with the memory of failing to live up to our commitment.

It’s that whole Christian thing. We’re big on the forgiveness stuff, although that may not make much sense to you.

mugged by squirrels on December 30, 2008 at 9:03 AM

Many Teens Don’t Keep Virginity Pledges.

is it any wonder? this article was one big sin of omission.

just queue thru any grocery check out and peruse the magazine covers. men gawk. girls giggle. mothers blush. soft core in public.

or click the tv. daytime. nightime. 100 channels of post-pubescent nearly nude dry humping hotties. hooking up as entertainment. we don’t go to the movies anymore. the floor is too sticky! ikkkk

the internet. p.o.r.n. uncensored. 24/7 nuff said.

is it any wonder our youth don’t blush? or don’t feel shame? or have little self-control? we are a stupid people.

lillyanneinc on December 30, 2008 at 9:23 AM

If I had waited until I was married, I wouldn’t have the first true love of my life sleeping upstairs in my bed right now. My daughter may be a huge bed-hog, but I can’t imagine life without her, or the valuble life lessons that she’s taught me. I plan on encouraging our children to wait until adulthood to have sex, but I got tired of having regrets about my own decision to not wait until I was more mature (I was out of high school though). I settled down, got married, had more kids, and we have no intentions of divorcing… we made a commitment to each other, and my past promiscuity has no impact or bearing on that commitment.

I think the idea of a pledge is silly. I have respect for those adults that choose to wait, but I don’t think children who make these pledges are commiting to their future spouses, but rather to their peers and families. I’m also in favor of taking sex ed, other than the basics of how reproduction works in biology class, out of schools. Since I know that’ll never happen, I hope to find a school for our kids that will teach both abstinance and birth control (and the pros and cons of each). That’s what we’ll be teaching at home, at least.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 9:35 AM

The crowds on the docks in the Lebanese port city of Tyre were jubilant and cheering as they welcomed the vessel SS Dignity to port following its unsuccessful voyage. The abrasive Cynthia McKinney, brash loudmouth activist supporting Hamas in Gaza, got her boat rammed as it attempted to maneuver through an Israeli Naval blockade in much the same fashion as Cynthia McKinney attempted to evade a security metal detector and then struck the Capitol Policeman on duty.

maverick muse on December 30, 2008 at 9:44 AM

Maybe if abortion were outlawed, it couldn’t be so easily used as birth control. Teens may think twice.
Then again, most teens these days don’t live with their own biological parents, so there’s not much going on with role modeling there either. Not even marriages look sacred anymore out there.
Sad.

bridgetown on December 30, 2008 at 9:52 AM

Red meat brings all the dregs of hot air looking for a fight into the comments section. This gives him a few hundred comments which compensate nicely for his lack of you know what.

Darth Executor on December 29, 2008 at 10:32 PM

I prefer the nuke.

Count to 10 on December 30, 2008 at 10:39 AM

I suspect they don’t simply because kids who take them were pushed into it by their parents, who would be better served teaching their kids discipline instead so they can actually resist the urge when they get at that point in their life.

Darth Executor on December 29, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Most of these pledges are relatively secret and done at events where parents are not invited nor wanted.

Stop the hypocrisy and we’ll stop the bashing!

Noneya on December 29, 2008 at 10:37 PM

No you won’t.

You knew (I think I can safely assume) about the basics of sexual function and contraception before you met your eventual mate, and it certainly didn’t cause you to have sex before marriage.

justfinethanks on December 29, 2008 at 10:59 PM

You can safely assume that, because people would have to be living under a rock to know nothing of contraceptives. We don’t need the government explaining this stuff to kids.

If they’re too stupid to figure it out, then they’re too stupid to be having sex. We can call it the reverse Darwin award.

but I’d hate to find out on my wedding night that me and my wife have no chemistry in bed.

LevStrauss on December 29, 2008 at 11:19 PM

If you have chemistry outside the bed, you can easily have it in bed. It just might take some work and practice, something that shouldn’t be a problem for the woman you supposedly love.

If you dump a girl because of her performance in the sack (something that dramatically changes over time), then you’re shooting yourself in the foot. Either you love her or you don’t. Sex is important, but it’s stupid to make it the deciding factor.

Besides, if you marry a virgin, at least you’ll know she’s serious when she says your the best she’s ever had.

The previous studies were flawed because the test group had a predisposition to abstinence (while the control group did not).

RightOFLeft on December 29, 2008 at 11:42 PM

The majority, yes, but as we discussed earlier, not all of them are predisposed towards abstinence.

But you already know my concerns on that front, so there’s no need to rehash anything.

I think that all this has proven is that pledgers are no more likely to abstain than church goers, but that should really be common sense. The pledge itself isn’t binding. In most cases, it’s a tiny card that you sign and keep for yourself and maybe never show anyone.

I’d made that pledge myself when I was old enough to even think about it, but I didn’t make the official pledge until I was 18. I could have easily been in her control group even though the only difference between me and the pledgers was a conference I hadn’t yet attended.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 10:39 AM

BTW, has it ever accured to your that there ARE atheists out there that want to wait until marriage? Trust me, if you look you’ll find them.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 29, 2008 at 11:44 PM

…and then there are those of use that have yet to be given the option.

Count to 10 on December 30, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Study the sources to determine a response to their findings.

No doubt that across the board, kids will be kids.

Do note well, however, the collaborative neo-liberal Socialist sponsors empowered by Congressional spenders and the global pharmaceutical industry, led by the world’s foremost gatherers, interpreters AND MANIPULATORS of information to design sociology into their new world order.

The Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development

The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (also called Add Health) is the only nationally-representative study of adolescent sexuality, which has spawned over one thousand peer-reviewed publications on many issues related to adolescent health and sexuality, and other adolescent health risk behaviors. Add-health is directed by J. Richard Udry (UNC, Chapel Hill), with fieldwork done by National Opinion Research Center (Waves I and II) and Research Triangle Institute (Wave III). It is funded by NICHHD and 17 other federal agencies, for $25 million (Boonstra 2001). The study was designed by Udry and Peter Bearman. The initial sampling frame is a stratified list of 26,666 American high schools, from which 80 schools were selected. The successive phases of the study allow researchers to attempt to make causal inferences by examining the effects of earlier factors on later health decisions. (Wikipedia)

Research Triangle Institute
(Big Brother’s most impressive and powerful Big Brother)

We are proud of our reputation for designing and conducting surveys that deliver high-quality data. With a staff of highly skilled researchers using advanced data collection systems and techniques, we offer broad-based survey services for public and private sector studies.

As part of a comprehensive education research and evaluation program, our experts conduct rigorous studies used to assess and improve the quality of early development, education, and employment programs in the United States and many other countries.

With the ability to assemble multidisciplinary research teams to address the needs of national, state, and local agencies, we are well equipped to help the world meet the education and training challenges of the 21st century.

Health research is our largest single field of study, encompassing research that ranges from studies of the human genome and the development of new drug compounds to national surveys of health behaviors and the implementation of global health programs.

Building on our extensive research expertise and working with staff members at RTI Health Solutions, our commercial subsidiary, we form multidisciplinary teams to meet the special needs of our clients.

Whether we are evaluating the economic benefits of new health coverage plans or developing new drugs to treat cancer, our researchers and scientists work to improve all aspects of human health.

Our behavioral research programs support sound decision making not only by federal agencies that develop and promote health care programs but also by insurers, employers, and individuals.

So along comes Steven Reinberg, HealthDay Reporter, 12-29-08, to play his part disseminating the “findings” for public consumption.

Teens who take virginity pledges are just as likely to have sex as teens who don’t make such promises — and they’re less likely to practice safe sex to prevent disease or pregnancy, a new study finds. “Previous studies found that pledgers were more likely to delay having sex than non-pledgers,” said study author Janet E. Rosenbaum, a post doctoral fellow at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “I used the same data as previous studies but a different statistical method.”

In other words, Dr. Rosenbaum used the same data but manipulated it to revise findings to make them new, “improved” for the purposes of the grand plan to devaluate all tradition as nonfunctional.

This is not to claim that all of this research has absolutely no scientific basis. But the collection of data and the interpretation of survey data HAS BEEN and IS BEING manipulated by the progressive movement of professional sociologists, aka Socialists. Frame a question in a manner to get the pre-designed desired response. Duh. Who hasn’t seen a poll and been irritated with the polling attempt to coerce an agenda response from you? How much more intimidating can it get than to have a surveying sociologist leading the personal conversation to get young minds to conform? There is as much reliable as unreliable information from this announcement.

No surprise. Just the political works in motion.

maverick muse on December 30, 2008 at 10:50 AM

but I don’t think children who make these pledges are commiting to their future spouses, but rather to their peers and families.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 9:35 AM

I can only speak for myself, but I was thinking of “mr. right” when I signed the card. I was mostly thinking of God, but I couldn’t help but wonder if what I was doing would mean anything to my future spouse, hoping he’d wait for me.

He didn’t, and I didn’t wait until marriage. Life is funny that way sometimes, but he did once tell me how much it meant to him, and I wouldn’t take anything back.

I’m sure many people do it just to fit in, and that easily explains how some now can’t seem to remember making the pledge in the first place, but some genuinely see it as a wedding present to their future spouse.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 10:57 AM

but some genuinely see it as a wedding present to their future spouse.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 10:57 AM

I’m sure some do, but how many young teens are thinking that? At 13, I was sure I’d never get married or have children.

I went through massage school with a young girl (17-18, high school grad), who had signed a virginity pledge. She did it because she thought that was what was expected of her, based on her family and religious beliefs. I felt she had a very negative view of her sexuality (her virginity was for her future husband only)… almost like it was not hers to give in the first place. I’d personally put less emphasis on virginity and more on the heart, as I know from personal experience one can break their hymen through a number of ways (and an intact hymen is considered the surest sign of virginity in females).

My husband has had no one but me, but we did not wait until our wedding day. We were married in our hearts long before we signed the paperwork.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM

I’m sure some do, but how many young teens are thinking that? At 13, I was sure I’d never get married or have children.

13 is a little young. I think most of these pledges are for kids who are at least dating already.

I felt she had a very negative view of her sexuality

I’d say that’s a problem in general. I know several Christians, myself included, who had a heard time with sex even inside marriage. We’re taught at a young age that it’s wrong, so it’s hard to switch the thought process.

My youth pastor’s wife was the same way, and she hid from him on their wedding night and locked herself in the bathroom.

I think the emphasis is too much on saying not to do it and less on the concept that sex is still good and natural.

We were married in our hearts long before we signed the paperwork.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM

I know the feeling. That’s how it was with me and my husband. We still had another two years of school left before we’d be able to get married.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 11:21 AM

I felt she had a very negative view of her sexuality (her virginity was for her future husband only)

Waiting until you’re married = having a negative view of her “sexuality”?

Hey guys. Got some sons who want to sew their wild oats? Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

That’s basically what you’re advertising when you say keeping your virginity til marriage is having a nagative view of your sexuality.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

That should read:

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem with said daughter being the town bicycle!

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

Is it really necessary to sink to that level when discussing differing opinions? Anna already said she wants her children to wait until they are adults and supports teaching abstinence.

That’s basically what you’re advertising when you say keeping your virginity til marriage is having a nagative view of your sexuality.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Only because you’re distorting what she said. She said that the girl didn’t think her virginity was for herself, only for her future husband. It wasn’t even for her.

Yes, that specifically shows a lack of self respect.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:19 PM

I wasn’t talking about my daughter, I was talking about a former classmate who basically felt like her virginity was the property of her future husband’s (as opposed to her own to give to the man that she loved and married). That doesn’t mean I’m saying my not-quite-6-year-old daughter can grow up to be a slut, *insult retracted*. If you actually could read, as opposed to basely insulting those who don’t show your world view, you’d notice what I said about my own children.

I plan on encouraging our children to wait until adulthood to have sex

My daughter’s body is her own, and I do hope to instill a sense of respect for her body into her (it’s something I’ve been working on since birth). I’d rather her wait until she’s emotionally, physically, and legally ready to have sex, but I’m not going to tell her she physically belongs to some nebulous future spouse (as my classmate believed), and that she’ll be a horrible person if she’s not virginal at marriage (I feel the same way about my younger sons). We’re not religious people, so my family obviously believes differently than yours.

Why the hell would you think it okay to make such an asinine comment about my daughter, especially when I never engaged you in conversation? I was responding to Esthier, and if you wished for clarification, you could have asked instead of insulting my family.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:25 PM

*insult retracted*

I admire your restraint.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Thank you. I was worried there for a moment that I hadn’t been that lucid about my classmate.

I’m starting to remember why I took a 10-day break from the internet. Happy birthday, by the way.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Happy birthday, by the way.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Thanks. Happy birthday to you as well. I hope you enjoyed it.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Thanks. Happy birthday to you as well. I hope you enjoyed it.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM

The kids baked an interesting-tasting cake, and I got my hair and feet done. It was wonderful, even if it didn’t snow. : )

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:31 PM

interesting-tasting cake

Heh. Well, from your kids I’m sure it was very special. I still remember some of the horrible stuff my mother ate because of us.

With mine, I was actually around family, and suddenly people were giving me gifts again. I felt like a kid. Though it didn’t hurt that my husband got me Heeley’s (those shoes that kids wear with the wheel in the heals). I still need to practice with them though.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:37 PM

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 12:37 PM

That’s awesome! Don’t hurt yourself, though. When I got my Wii, I pulled at least 3 muscles in my back/upper arm. Birthdays are the best time to feel like a kid… I still eat cake for breakfast the day after!

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM

You’ve got a Wii? That’s cool. I played with my 12-year-old cousin’s and she beat me bad at tennis. Then, the next day I woke up sore. I’m out of shape.

I haven’t fallen hard yet, but my husband’s hoping for some tricks. It should be fun.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM

We’re not religious people, so my family obviously believes differently than yours.

Although I am a christian, I’ve got news for you. Look up “straight edge”. They tend to be atheist. They also tend to abstain from sex.

but I’m not going to tell her she physically belongs to some nebulous future spouse (as my classmate believed),

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

Why the hell would you think it okay to make such an asinine comment about my daughter, especially when I never engaged you in conversation? I

Why don’t YOU read what I said. I said that you saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is “having a negative veiw of her sexuality” is basically advertising to the world that “hey, if you’re a girl, do whatever (and whoever) you like because being a virgin is lame”.

Heck, you already spoke of your promiscuity as if it wasn’ta bad thing.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 1:17 PM

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

She told me point blank that it was not a choice she made, but one her parents made for her. The whole issue came up in class because another classmate got pregnant out of wedlock, and since I had experience in that, some of the younger women wanted me to talk to them about it. It was an enlightening experience, but it did make me feel old. The classmate in question felt secure enough to confide in me her doubts about her beliefs, and yes, she did have a very negative view on sexuality. I only hope one day she realizes that sex is not a duty to her husband, but a wonderful experience to give and recieve.

As to my former promiscuity, it was a mixed bag. I got hurt, but I also ended up with my daughter. I don’t regret it, but I’m not going to encourage my daughter to follow my path. I was not saying that being a virgin was lame. As I previously said, I respect adults that wait until marriage, it must be pretty hard to do. At the same time, not being a virgin on one’s wedding night is not the end of the world.

At this point, though, I’m quite through with you. You could have got your point across without saying I condone my little girl being a whore. I never said that, and I don’t think highly of people that insult children, especially my own. I was hoping for an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 1:30 PM

We live in a society that believes they have the “right” to do anything they want to do. Just read the news some day about the people who exercise their “rights.” It is the “right” of gay people to marry (this is no judgment either way). It is the “right” of some dorky woman to get her gas tank filled at (Obama’s) our expense. Everything is now a “right.” Nowhere is there “responsibility.” Until that changes, girls and boys having sex is going to be the least of our problems.

TimothyJ on December 30, 2008 at 2:30 PM

Yikes…touchy subject. My sons would be horrified if I wrote about their sexual exploits (or the lack thereof) on a blog, so I’ll refrain from doing so. I think I’ll refrain from reading about other people kids as well. I will say that I don’t think if my sons had taken a pledge they would have been able to keep it, not the way the girls in high school were back then. And out of fear of being completely ridiculed by their peers. I told them CONDOM CONDOM CONDOM if you do and NEVER believe a girl who swears she is on the pill. They forget to take them.

scalleywag on December 30, 2008 at 2:34 PM

scalleywag on December 30, 2008 at 2:34 PM

No one here knows who you are or will ever try and find out. Your sons are nameless as are anyone else’s here.

And how do you know that YOU did not take what your classmate said out of context? Could she have *gasp* actually WANT to wait until marraige to lose her virginity?

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 1:17 PM

She already spoke respectfully of those who choose that for themselves, but this was not the case with this woman.

Surely you know of woman who have been pressured or told sex was dirty?

Seriously, Anna’s a good person. There’s no reason to jump on her.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 2:47 PM

No surprise.

I dated a girl who’d actually appeared on TV with her then boyfriend in high school. She and he were on the air to demonstrate how so very holy they were to all in Baptist Land (Southeast MO). They’d joined a church group called “Love Waits.” No sex, absitenence, Jesus, peace, love and hair grease.

And after they left the studio, they got it on like little bunnies in the back seat of his car, like they’d been doing for months every chance they got.

quikstrike98 on December 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM

At this point, though, I’m quite through with you. You could have got your point across without saying I condone my little girl being a whore. I never said that, and I don’t think highly of people that insult children, especially my own. I was hoping for an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.

Hey, I didn’t insult your daughter. Again, I said what I said to show how you may be coming across. I’m sorry if you feel I did insult your daughter (although, way to assume that I’m not the apologizing type). Perhaps if you would have explained earlier as well as you did on your last post about WHY you said she had a negative view of sexuality then I wouldn’t have said what I said. It’s all about context.

Again, I didn’t insult your child. I may have insulted what I thought was your way of thinking, but I didn’t call your child anything.

Also, I do NOT think poorly of people who don’t stay virgins until they are married. I wasn’t and I’m not proud of (key phrase there) of my sexual past (not premiscuous but not good none-the-less). My wife was a virgin (in every way) until our wedding night (we lived together for 1 1/2 years before getting married and I even spent weekends over at he place before we moved in together). However, I am irritated by the “well, they’re teens so they are going to have sex anyways” attitude of parents.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:00 PM

I told them CONDOM CONDOM CONDOM if you do and NEVER believe a girl who swears she is on the pill. They forget to take them.

See, this is what I”m talking about. That “if you do..” part basically says to them (wether you personally feel this way or not) “Go ahead, have sex”.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:02 PM

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Saying I’d be okay with my daughter being the town bicycle is insulting. However, I’ll let that drop because you dropped your aggressive tone. Also, if you weren’t clear about my anecdote, you could have asked for clarification before stating

Hey guys. Got some sons who want to sew their wild oats? Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem being the town bicycle!

. I get the feeling you had not read what I had previously wrote, and immediately assumed my position was at odds with yours. Which it’s quite obviously not.

Anna on December 30, 2008 at 4:10 PM

. I get the feeling you had not read what I had previously wrote, and immediately assumed my position was at odds with yours. Which it’s quite obviously not.

I wonder if you missed my correction after my initial post. As soon as I made that first post I saw how it could be misread and posted a correction right after it.

That should read:

Anna has a daughter that, once she’s in her teens, she would have no problem with said daughter being the town bicycle!

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Anyways, one thing that people dont’ realise is all the complications that sex causes when it’s not with someone you’re married to and especially if you’re a teen. Heck, I was 22 when I decided to finally “give it up” and it nearly cost me a very close friend.

BTW, there are ways to mention condoms to kids without sounding like you condone having sex as a teen. Putting “but ifs” in it is not one of them.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:22 PM

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:16 PM

I fail to see how that’s supposed to clear up anything. You’re still saying that you believe Anna would be cool with her daughter as the town whore even though she spoke directly against that earlier.

Esthier on December 30, 2008 at 4:23 PM

I fail to see how that’s supposed to clear up anything. You’re still saying that you believe Anna would be cool with her daughter as the town whore even though she spoke directly against that earlier.

I posted that after she quoted me on the original posting that I made right before the correction. If you just read the original post without the immediate correction then it most certainly does look as if I’m directly insulting her daughter. That’s all. Not meant as a rebuttle.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 30, 2008 at 4:49 PM

“Pledges” are idiotic (especially pledges made by 10 and 12 year-olds). And Christians who know their theology should understand that acts avoided solely because of “law” are bound for failure.

I recall the cartoon of the man standing on a street corner looking up at a sign that says “No Juggling Machetes”… he turns to his wife and says “Suddenly I feel like juggling a machete.” That is what solely prohibitive law does. You can walk along a path for months… then someone puts up a “Do Not Walk on Grass” sign and suddenly you consider the idea (even if it only a small part of you).

Obedience out of conviction of what is right (and better yet, because of love) is far better than obedience to law (and has a far better chance of success). I feed, clothe, house and educate my children not because the law says I must (which it does) but because I love them. And the guy who does all that because the law makes him is far more likely to perform badly or simply fail.

Christians need to drop the gimmicks.

mankai on December 30, 2008 at 6:35 PM

Christians need to drop the gimmicks.

mankai on December 30, 2008 at 6:35 PM

Non-Christians need to drop the cloying self-righteousness.

spmat on December 30, 2008 at 11:51 PM

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