Quotes of the day

posted at 9:01 pm on December 27, 2008 by Allahpundit

“Now a confirmed atheist, I’ve become convinced of the enormous contribution that Christian evangelism makes in Africa: sharply distinct from the work of secular NGOs, government projects and international aid efforts. These alone will not do. Education and training alone will not do. In Africa Christianity changes people’s hearts. It brings a spiritual transformation. The rebirth is real. The change is good

Faith does more than support the missionary; it is also transferred to his flock. This is the effect that matters so immensely, and which I cannot help observing.”

*
“Sixty-five percent of respondents said — again — that other religions could lead to eternal life. But this time, to clear up any confusion, Pew asked them to specify which religions. The respondents essentially said all of them.

And they didn’t stop there. Nearly half also thought that atheists could go to heaven — dragged there kicking and screaming, no doubt — and most thought that people with no religious faith also could go.”


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Off topic: Allah, the link to the NYT story re Caroline Kennedy doesn’t work. In fact, I got gibberish citing Kos when I clicked it. I think it was a 403 error.

sondiehl on December 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM

Nope. It was a 403 Forbidden error. Silly me.

sondiehl on December 27, 2008 at 9:10 PM

Heaven for the Godless?

Oh boy,and once in heaven,they’ll
be protesting for there atheist
rights as a minority!

And I’m kidding:)A Hem.

canopfor on December 27, 2008 at 9:18 PM

Why do zealots insist upon including me in their fantasies?

OldEnglish on December 27, 2008 at 9:28 PM

Good for Africa.
I was a Missionary once… A long time ago. I also saw people change too, Almost always for the better.
Christianity Can give Hope to the Hopeless.
When It does, its wonderful.

Like we Conservatives always say: Liberals are always about “Intent” and Conservatives are about “Results”. here is an example of an atheist seeing the difference between the two and seeing results. the fact that the man who wrote the story, is also reporter makes his observation a miracle in itself.

I believe, I believe! hee hee!

-Wasteland Man.

WastelandMan on December 27, 2008 at 9:34 PM

Here is some of that good from Iraq.

marcboyd on December 27, 2008 at 9:43 PM

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
NASU

Just sayin’.

davidk on December 27, 2008 at 9:56 PM

The new book by Imaculee Ilibagiza regarding Rwanda is a beautiful work about the power of healing through forgiveness. The book is “Led By God” and is a follow up to her earlier one, “Left to Tell”. The first is about the genocide and the second the aftermath.

God changes hearts. He is the only one. Remember what they said about the early Christians, “See how they love one another.” It is that love which is God that saves.

Jvette on December 27, 2008 at 9:59 PM

So what is the missionary position?

On their role in Africa, I mean?

Bishop on December 27, 2008 at 10:06 PM

Ya know, it takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a Christian. Believing that there is no God requires a faith not backed up by observable facts. Agnosticism, on the other hand, is at least a realistic viewpoint. Seeing the results of a Christian life is a step toward becoming Christian.

As to Christians believing non-Christian things, anyone can call himself Christian (and many do), but that doesn’t make him Christian in fact.

From Matthew 7

13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Buford Gooch on December 27, 2008 at 10:09 PM

I believe that Jesus is the only way to God and eternal life in heaven. Before his life, death and resurrection, the gates of heaven were closed to all. It is only because of him that we even have a chance. But, I would never presume to know who will be there and who won’t. I am not God, I do not tell God what to do and I do not even try to understand his ways. I am just grateful that I have faith, it brings me comfort and leads me to love all men whether I like them or not. It’s not always easy, but I try.

Jvette on December 27, 2008 at 10:23 PM

being anti-christian is a hallmark of the left, so kudos to this story

rob verdi on December 27, 2008 at 10:25 PM

You know………………..

………. there was one man that has done more for Africa than anyone else who has “Talked About It”, made a “Movie”, or carried a sign in the street……….

I wonder who that was……………..

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Obama, by winning the election?

OldEnglish on December 27, 2008 at 10:33 PM

I wonder if the evident connection between individual initiative and Christianity did not begin with the Reformation and Protestantism. You do not see the same results where the Catholic Church has proselytized and/or converted whole populations, going back to the 16th century.

There is something about the Protestant Ethic, which after all infused and kick-started the young America.

MrLynn on December 27, 2008 at 10:37 PM

Thanks, AP for pulling this out of the headlines. Also, I appreciate the fact that you are always willing to post such articles, both those that lean one way and those that lean the other. You don’t have to be so fair minded, but the fact that you are says a lot about you and this site. I’m not as cynical as some in thinking that you only do this for traffic. Again, thank you.

Concerning the second story, let me stir the pot with a quote from G.K. Chesterton’s, The Everlasting Man:

Right in the middle of all these things stands up an enormous exception. It is quite unlike anything else. It is a thing final like the trump of doom, though it is also a piece of good news; or news that seems too good to be true. It is nothing less than the loud assertion that this mysterious maker of the world has visited his world in person. It declares that really and even recently, or right in the middle of historic times, there did walk into the world this original invisible being; about whom the thinkers make theories and the mythologists hand down myths; the Man Who Made the World. That such a higher personality exists behind all things had indeed always been implied by all the best thinkers, as well as by all the most beautiful legends. But nothing of this sort had ever been implied in any of them. It is simply false to say that the other sages and heroes had claimed to be that mysterious master and maker, of whom the world had dreamed and disputed. Not one of them had ever claimed to be anything of the sort. Not one of their sects or schools had even claimed that they had claimed to be anything of the sort. The most that any religious prophet had said was that he was the true servant of such a being. The most that any visionary had ever said was that men might catch glimpses of the glory of that spiritual being; or much more often of lesser spiritual beings. The most that any primitive myth had even suggested was that the Creator was present at the Creation. But that the Creator was present at scenes a little subsequent to the supper-parties of Horace, and talked with tax-collectors and government officials in the detailed daily life of the Roman Empire, and that this fact continued to be firmly asserted by the whole of that great civilisation for more than a thousand years– that is something utterly unlike anything else in nature. It is the one great startling statement that man has made since he spoke his first articulate word, instead of barking like a dog. Its unique character can be used as an argument against it as well as for it. It would be easy to concentrate on it as a case of isolated insanity; but it makes nothing but dust and nonsense of comparative religion.

Weight of Glory on December 27, 2008 at 10:49 PM

I wonder if the evident connection between individual initiative and Christianity did not begin with the Reformation and Protestantism.

I doubt it. Rebellion is rebellion, and all cultures experience it to some degree. Don’t forget; the oppressive English government rejected by Americans was itself a Protestant rebellion against the power-hungry Papacy.

Individual initiative doesn’t come from organizations, it comes from individuals.

TMK on December 27, 2008 at 10:51 PM

He sound a little shaky in his Atheism. It’s almost like he wants to believe but is afraid of what his fellow Atheists will think of him. Just needs a little nudge in the right direction.

Tommy_G on December 27, 2008 at 10:57 PM

So what is the missionary position?

On their role in Africa, I mean?

Bishop on December 27, 2008 at 10:06 PM

—-rimshot—-

Uh buh dee, uh buh dee, uh buh dee. That’s all folks!

hillbillyjim on December 27, 2008 at 11:00 PM

I already contributed my 2 cents on this topic go ahead keep the CHANGE Big Grin

Dr Evil on December 27, 2008 at 11:05 PM

Christianity works.

My collie says:

And that is WAY MORE than we can say for the “free press” or for “representative government” here in the United States — or anywhere else, for that matter.

Not only that, but it works better than internet blogs, too.

CyberCipher on December 27, 2008 at 11:12 PM

WastelandMan on December 27, 2008 at 9:34 PM

Christianity works in prisons, too. Prison Fellowship is surpassing every program out there at turning crooks into model citizens.

jgapinoy on December 27, 2008 at 11:28 PM

He sound a little shaky in his Atheism. It’s almost like he wants to believe but is afraid of what his fellow Atheists will think of him. Just needs a little nudge in the right direction.

He’s the next Anthony Flew.

jgapinoy on December 27, 2008 at 11:30 PM

Don’t forget; the oppressive English government rejected by Americans was itself a Protestant rebellion against the power-hungry Papacy.

TMK on December 27, 2008 at 10:51 PM

The American revolution wasn’t so much a rebellion against the British system, so much as wanting to be treated as equals under it. When that was rejected, both sides dug in their heals against each other.

The structure of government adopted in the states was patterned after the organization of the Presbyterian Church and so we had elected leaders. If we had followed the Catholic Church, leaders would have been appointed from above.

pedestrian on December 27, 2008 at 11:32 PM

God will judge all justly in the end. Anything is possible.

AbaddonsReign on December 27, 2008 at 11:35 PM

And they didn’t stop there. Nearly half also thought that atheists could go to heaven — dragged there kicking and screaming, no doubt — and most thought that people with no religious faith also could go.”

If I dood it, I det a whippin….

sulla on December 27, 2008 at 11:36 PM

Encyclopedia Britannica estimates that approximately 46.5% of all Africans are Christian and another 40.5% are Muslim, while 11.8% follow indigenous African religions.

Sort of undermines his argument that tribal beliefs are holding back Africa’s development. It’s hard to respond to much of what he says, though. He doesn’t offer much of an argument besides, “I like Christian Africans better than those with indigenous beliefs.”

RightOFLeft on December 27, 2008 at 11:38 PM

And they didn’t stop there. Nearly half also thought that atheists could go to heaven — dragged there kicking and screaming, no doubt — and most thought that people with no religious faith also could go.”

Problem is most of the people here will be 35 cents short.

Lonetown on December 27, 2008 at 11:49 PM

I firmly believe that all Atheists, Agnostics, and all others will believe in God at the end. They will also believe in heaven and hell, and will get to know Satan verry well into eternity. Our God is a very jealous god.

marcboyd on December 27, 2008 at 11:59 PM

Well, the Scripture does say every tounge shall confess. It just doesn’t say that everyone will go to heaven.

boomer on December 28, 2008 at 12:09 AM

Problem is most of the people here will be 35 cents short.

Lonetown on December 27, 2008 at 11:49 PM

There is always room for a Father Guido Sarducci reference. LOL!

sulla on December 28, 2008 at 12:29 AM

Jeeze Louise – if Heaven is multicultural, how does that explain Purgatory?

And if I’m still an atheist when and if I get to heaven, what then?
Will I have someone thumping my ear trying to convince me I still don’t know what’s all about.

Missionaries are good and needed despite their history of devastating cultures, but penance and redemption are apart of the process of forgiveness. The end result is progress of the human race as a whole, and that is a good thing for our future survival as a species.

But since no one’s has really been to heaven, and returned tell us what heaven is really like and all about, except for what have been written about in scriptures.

Would it be OK to lower my expectations about heaven is and then be pleasantly surprised?

Kini on December 28, 2008 at 12:59 AM

So what is the missionary position?

On their role in Africa, I mean?

Bishop on December 27, 2008 at 10:06 PM

To always be on top….. of things.

Kini on December 28, 2008 at 1:02 AM

Jesus said that the road to destruction is wide and many travel it. The road to salvation is narrow and few travel it.

Why should we be surprised that the majority of people have it wrong?

Mojave Mark on December 28, 2008 at 1:13 AM

As to Christians believing non-Christian things, anyone can call himself Christian (and many do), but that doesn’t make him Christian in fact.

From Matthew 7

13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Buford Gooch on December 27, 2008 at 10:09 PM

One thing I think I’m sure about. Hell is populated with the souls of surprised people, a whole lotta surprised people. I suspect making it to Heaven is a lot more difficult than people realize.

Sapwolf on December 28, 2008 at 1:20 AM

Bishop on December 27, 2008 at 10:06 PM

—-rimshot—-

Uh buh dee, uh buh dee, uh buh dee. That’s all folks!

hillbillyjim on December 27, 2008 at 11:00 PM

To always be on top….. of things.

Kini on December 28, 2008 at 1:02 AM

In the case of Africa, to be on the bottom, alas, strictly geographically speaking, and only depending from which position…

Thanks for the smiles, all three of you bad boys.

p.s. Kini, I answered you the other night, when you sent the “heart” message :)

Entelechy on December 28, 2008 at 1:32 AM

Entelechy on December 28, 2008 at 1:32 AM

Yes, I got your reply! Start planning your vacation :)

Some scrambled egg thoughts for all.

From what I’ve learned so far in my limited knowledge and experience of religion, choices are made based on what opportunities are available at the time. When given the opportunity, heaven on earth can either be found or made for anyone. Realizing, of course, there are those that either never have or will never get the opportunities that I have had. However, whom am I to judge, by my life experience, what’s best for others to emulate? I guess that’s the measure and strength of ones faith. Is that sacrifice?

Is there an afterlife to look forward to? I don’t know. Only faith and upbringing tells me there is. Which puzzles me why some faiths ( and your know which ones) have less value of the here and now and more value on the hereafter. Maybe its how the gifts of life can be either valued, or devalued. I don’t know which, but I know life now, all life, is equally of value. Does this make me an extremist? A zealot?

Kini on December 28, 2008 at 3:21 AM

AllahPundit,

No disrespect, but I think this is a good example of a religious QOTD would be this.

2008 was the year man-made global warming was disproved

First, all over the world, temperatures have been dropping in a way wholly unpredicted by all those computer models which have been used as the main drivers of the scare.

Secondly, 2008 was the year when any pretence that there was a “scientific consensus” in favour of man-made global warming collapsed.

Thirdly, as banks collapsed and the global economy plunged into its worst recession for decades, harsh reality at last began to break in on those self-deluding dreams which have for so long possessed almost every politician in the western world.

I know I’m a blasphemer.

Kini on December 28, 2008 at 3:47 AM

Interesting, an Atheist notices that evangelized Christian converts in Africa are more liberated, relaxed, and lively about their environment versus confirmed mind-numb robots shackled to the mission only believing because it’s an end to a means. Who would have thunk it?

Sultry Beauty on December 28, 2008 at 6:04 AM

From the comments at One Cosmos:

If you read the original article, you can understand how Christianity is once again the cure for religion:

“Anxiety — fear of evil spirits, of ancestors, of nature and the wild, of a tribal hierarchy, of quite everyday things — strikes deep into the whole structure of rural African thought.”

Joan of Argghh on December 28, 2008 at 8:22 AM

And that is WAY MORE than we can say for the “free press” or for “representative government” here in the United States — or anywhere else, for that matter.
CyberCipher on December 27, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Have you soured on the idea of rep. government with universal franchise? I’ve been wondering about it myself lately.

Also, were you seriously suggesting that Christianity is a substitute for it? Or was your collie just thinking out loud?

JiangxiDad on December 28, 2008 at 8:26 AM

Weight of Glory on December 27, 2008 at 10:49 PM

Great comment.

Mark30339 on December 28, 2008 at 10:30 AM

JiangxiDad on December 28, 2008 at 8:26 AM

Christianity is NOT a substitute for the things of man (such as government or so-called journalism). Collie was just pointing out that we spend an awful lot of time and effort trying to cultivate things that we already know don’t work very well. What if we spent the same amount of time and effort on things that DO work? How would people (and therefore, the world) be different?

CyberCipher on December 28, 2008 at 1:29 PM

What if we spent the same amount of time and effort on things that DO work? How would people (and therefore, the world) be different?

CyberCipher on December 28, 2008 at 1:29 PM

I know it could not be worse. The last election taught me that we need immediate actions and results, as we are in great danger. I’m not sure from what quarter, if any, the succor will come, but anything is welcome.

JiangxiDad on December 28, 2008 at 4:28 PM