Arimidex. Tamoxifen arimidex….

I did basically concede that while a war can never be considered “Just” it may be considered a “lesser evil war” and I did state that killing an enraged pychopath during a home invasion could be considered “just”.

Thank you! that was surprising! see there is hope for the disparate groups of christianity to come together!

In my opinion, this is a living example of the futility of trying to reason with anyone who simply refuses to allow reason the enter their world view.

You can’t reason a person out of a position that was not reasoned into.

SO and DTMH seem to fit that bill

It’s so ironic that you say that..

It seems like you’re referring to yourself.

If you would have bothered to read a few posts up, you would be aware that the only example here of someone who improves upon their position upon further consideration is me.

I did basically concede that while a war can never be considered “Just” it may be considered a “lesser evil war” and I did state that killing an enraged pychopath during a home invasion could be considered “just”.

I think this finally proves my point that the biggest problem we are facing is the lack of most peoples ability to do the slightest amount of research.

You can’t reason a person out of a position that was not reasoned into.

SO and DTMH seem to fit that bill. One seems to float in a universe of intellectual and philosophical dodgeball and one in a in a universe of biblical cryptology. Neither of these reflect reality.
In my opinion, this is the same mindset of the terrorist, only much less personally involved in the stated beliefs.

That is the ONLY similarity I’m pointing out with terrorists. I need to state that because part and parcel of the mindset of those who refuse to deal with reality is to try to deflect anyones point by accusing one of making statements that were not made.

The possibility of reasoning terrorists into changing their ways and world view, has about as much possibility of success as talking a tree out of being a tree and maybe trying out being a rock for a change…..ain’t gonna happen.

If reason can’t touch the minds of basically peaceful and respectful people and allow them to see another’s point of view as valid and resonable, what are the chances of reason having an effect on the minds of those in terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, AQ or other radical organizations…people who see horribly brutal acts against innocent people as something to celebrate and build their egos? The only solution is to either contain or kill them and teach the young another way.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. King James Version

I’ll be waiting for your apology.

SaintOlaf on December 30, 2008 at 3:24 AM

Be sure to hold your breath while you do.

Torah says “Thou shall not commit murder.”

I think the guys who transcribed the Torah know their Hebrew better than the guys who wrote the KJB.

Sorry if that inconveniences you, it’s just how it is.

It’s “Thou shalt not commit murder”, you sanctimonious tool.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. King James Version

I’ll be waiting for your apology.

I believe I mentioned that a couple of posts ago.

50 million Orthodox Christians were martyred.

That was the worst holocaust in human history with the exception of the Russian holocaust of Orthodox Christians in which the communist atheists martyred 70 million Orthodox Christians ina 70 years period

Still I believe that the only way that islam will be destroyed is not by violence, but by converting the muslims back to the Orthodox Church.

The reality is islam is fundamentally flawed and it will fall apart.

Islam is not really a seperate religion, it is a Christian heresy that began with the arian or nestorian excommunicated heretic monk who taught mohammed.

Here is an interesting link about St John Damscene’s thoughts about the heresy of islam.

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=210

(St. John Damascene lived right around the time that islam was formed and grew up with the man who became the Umayyad Caliph)

“St. John of Damscus, The qur’an contains foolish sayings worthy of laughter” Note that he quotes a section of the qur’an that no longer exists also.

The Brittish writer Hillaire Belloc in his book the Great heresies described Islam as the original Calvinism: no priesthood, no sacraments, etc.(and also I might add they eliminated the Holy Trinity like the mormons)

In “The Inferno” Dante puts Mohammed in the eighth circle, ninth bolgia of hell with the other sowers of scandal and schism.

The reason why it sounds like I’m defending the muslims sometimes is because it only makes it harder to convert the muslims if we persist in demonizing each other.

Islam is so flawed in so many ways and any muslim who is exposed to the fact that they originated as simply a heresy of Orthodox Christianity will without a doubt convert back to the true Faith, if given the opportunity to set their guard down and hear.

“Thou shalt not Kill”

SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 9:54 PM

It’s “Thou shalt not commit murder”, you sanctimonious tool.

If you can’t even get that much right, it speaks volumes to your ecclesiastical acumen.

War and murder aren’t the same thing. Only a coward or a scoundrel would argue so.

A lot of anger there. Very disturbing. I respect pacifists even if I disagree, and I love the Orthodox Church. But, Olaf, you are giving both a bad name here by your name-calling and anger.

Venusian Visitor on December 29, 2008 at 10:38 PM

Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist.
- George Orwell

muslims have ruled over majority Christian nations for 1,200 years and they haven’t “killed all non muslims” like you claim.

It’s total propaganda.

Yes we’re second class citzens in muslim nations and yes we may have to pay a jizya tax but they do not kill you because you are not muslim!

SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Dude what do you think happened to the Christian community in Istanbul Constantinople during the 20th century!!????

Now, I do agree with you that we’re fighting a spiritual war. But wouldn’t you agree that this spiritual war would manifest itself physically?

I think that’s a dangerous proposition.

One is supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin.

If I have scared anyone away from the true faith of Orthodox Christianity regarding my ultra pacifist view I sincerely apologize and again say that you should seek out the true position of the Church for yourself with a priest..

While the mantra: “there is no just war in Orthodoxy” sounds cut and dry it really is not.

I will admit there are certain situations which this might not apply.

For example there is an Orthodox Saint(St. Nestor) who did kill in order to protect some Christians.

And I would concede that a home invasion may be one such instance where this is justified.

As for war, I do believe that there is no such thing as a “just war”, only a “lesser evil war”.

One of the problems with just war is the atrocities that result when it turns into a “holy war” such as in the crusades where the Roman Catholics even went so far as to say that one’s sins wuld be absolved by killing muslims…

Remember that there was a time when even Orthodox Christians and muslims fought side by side against the corrupt Roman Catholics who sacked and invaded Constantinople during the fourth “crusade” and brought back the art,literature and etc. (which resulted in the “enlightenment in western europe)…

I find your opposing judaism more than a little ironic, given Jesus was a jew

So what if Jesus was of hebrew blood? Judaism is a different story entirely…they deny Christ entirely.

Judaism is an anti-Christ religion. (as is islam)

In no way should Christians blindly side with them.

This situation is a situation where we have no dog in this fight. The only thing I can think of is the preservation of holy sites in palestine and the arabs HAVE done a very good job of preserving those sites which we should give them credit for.

That being said I think they are both wrong and honestly they both commit acts of terror which we shouldn’t blind our eyes to.

SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 9:40 PM

See previous post. I address your arguments there. Thanks.

Because you do not understand this, it is obvious to see why you are butchering the Holy Scriptures,butchering Christianity and promoting heresy.
You don’t understand that because you have a materialistic and worldly view of Christianity.

You claim that I’m speaking heresy. Interesting. If I am speaking heresy, then please show me: book, chapter, and verse. I’ve explained my position thoroughly using Scripture, as have others here. I’ve answered your contentions that Jesus was somehow telling the disciples to buy “swords of the spirit”. You have yet to answer any of the other texts that justify the position of armed self-defense. Jesus taught meekness, not weakness. There is a difference. Not once have I advocated for hate, but rather for a righteous anger. An example of righteous anger was Jesus in the Temple when he overturned the tables of the moneychangers. Joshua was a warrior. David was a warrior. Jesus is a warrior (Revelation 19:11-21). Not once in all of Scripture is a soldier condemned or rebuked for his status as a warrior. Rather, Jesus saves his greatest complement for a centurion: “When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, ‘I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.’” (Matthew 8:10)
Here’s some other food for thought from Judges 3:
“These are the nations the Lord left to test all those Israelites who had not experienced any of the wars in Canaan (he did this only to teach warfare to the descendants of the Israelites who had not had previous battle experience): the five rulers of the Philistines, all the Canaanites, the Sidonians, and the Hivites living in the Lebanon mountains from Mount Baal Hermon to Lebo Hamath. They were left to test the Israelites to see whether they would obey the Lord’s commands, which he had given their forefathers through Moses.” Did God all of a sudden change his character, his views on killing? Did Jesus come to pacify the world? No. Jesus came to “fulfill” the law, not to change it (Matthew 5:17).
Now, I do agree with you that we’re fighting a spiritual war. But wouldn’t you agree that this spiritual war would manifest itself physically? This is the law of the harvest. Thoughts lead to desires; desires to temptations; temptations to action; action to habit; habit to character; character to destiny. Are you saying that abortion, for example, is not the physical manifestation of the spiritual war on this earth? I’d like to know your thoughts on this.

muslims have ruled over majority Christian nations for 1,200 years and they haven’t “killed all non muslims” like you claim.

It’s total propaganda.

Yes we’re second class citzens in muslim nations and yes we may have to pay a jizya tax but they do not kill you because you are not muslim!

SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 1:26 PM

this is a flat out lie…the muslims have conquered christian lands, and forced them to convert..or die, or become dhimmis…

and not a word about what happened to the armenians….predictable..

Using the term Israeli terrorism to describe self defense is ridiculous

It’s not self defense. It’s terrorism.

They are killing innocent civilians outside of the legal conventions of war.

Why are you defending terrorists and then condemning others for the same thing?

Kind of hypocritical don’t you think?

SaintOlaf on December 27, 2008 at 9:13 PM

this is beyond the pale. calling israel terrorists for defending themselves is pathetic and sickening.

since you want to be a martyr SO much, why don’t you go to karachi, and preach Christ crucified on the street?

and see what your ‘friends’ the muslism do…

and you sure haven’t said anything about the muslim missiles striking and killing the jews…..no all you do is condemn the state of israel for protecting themselves..

and you know if there weren’t people willing to die to defend this country, you would not have the freedom you do to spout such nonsense. I find your position a distortion of scripture, and frankly despicable.

people like you NEVER condemn the muslims…and their atrocities..

Wrong. I condemn the atrocities of the anti-Christ religion of islam all the time.

Even on this thread I have numerous times.

blessed are the peacemakers for they shall see God

and being a peacemaker doesn’t mean SURRENDER…pathetic.

Regardless I apologize for insinuating that those people are sick maniacs for stating that they would like to kill 1.5 million innocent children. There was probably a better way for me to communicate my disgust and disapproval.

SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 10:48 PM

but you have no problem with the muslim desire to kill all the jews…

That is a cheap shot liberal tactic you are using.

SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 11:17 PM

again you should check the mirro..people like you NEVER condemn the muslims…and their atrocities..

ever hear of the MILLIONS of armenians who were slaughtered by the muslims???

please.

But honestly I think you will find islam more akin to your violent and ill tempered version of Christianity.

you should check the mirror.

and yes you are an anti-semite. and no you cannot defend your position by scripture.

A lot of anger there. Very disturbing. I respect pacifists even if I disagree, and I love the Orthodox Church. But, Olaf, you are giving both a bad name here by your name-calling and anger.

Venusian Visitor on December 29, 2008 at 10:38 PM

I actually agree with you. It proves my point that I made earlier..I’m just a sinner. I don’t represent the Church.

If I am a stumbling block that leads right4life to not find the truth I apologize and I would suggest he look up their position himself.

That’s what I believe the position is, but look it up for yourself and tell me how you can reconcile the numerous Scriptures that advocated non violence with your position.

Thou shalt not kill

turn the other cheek

My Kingdom is not of this world

do not return evil with evil

put away your sword, those who live by the sword will die by it

blessed are the peacemakers for they shall see God

etc etc etc etc.

And no r4Life I am no anti semite.

I truly believe Christ when he condemns racism and try to live by it when He tells of the good samaritan and also when He says:

there is neither jew nor gentile

Just because I believe Christ when He says Israel of God is by FAITH not flesh and blood and there is neither jew nor gentile does not mean I am racist, that is ridiculous.

Yes I oppose judaism and yes I oppose zionism, but just because I stated that the Christians are the Israel of God and that the so called “israeli’s” are not israel does not mean I am racist, it just means I believe the Bible.

That is a cheap shot liberal tactic you are using.