Hamas gets its war
posted at 10:15 am on December 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The patience of the Israelis reached its end today. After taking more that 200 missile attacks in the past week, the IDF attacked every known Hamas security station in Gaza today, killing hundreds and wounding hundreds more. Gazans pledged resistance to any ground invasion, but Israel has not yet indicated when — or if — one will come:
Israeli warplanes retaliating for rocket fire from the Gaza Strip pounded dozens of security compounds across the Hamas-ruled territory in unprecedented waves of airstrikes Saturday, killing at least 155 and wounding more than 310 in the single bloodiest day of fighting in recent memory.
Hamas said all of its security installations were hit and responded with several medium-range Grad rockets at Israel, reaching deeper than in the past. One Israeli was killed and at least four people were wounded.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said “the operation will last as long as necessary,” but it was not clear if it would be coupled with a ground offensive. Asked if Hamas political leaders might be targeted next, military spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich said, “Any Hamas target is a target.” …
But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according to the military’s count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military to crush the gunmen.
Hamas made it clear last week that they wanted war. They announced the end of the so-called truce, although as the 16th paragraph in this report finally makes clear, Hamas and other affiliated groups had never stopped attacking Israel. They want to provoke a wider war and hope to get Egypt involved. The Egyptians opened the border to provide emergency medical care to the wounded and condemned the attack, but have not broken diplomatic relations with Israel yet over the attack.
The world should step aside and quit interfering in the war Hamas so desperately wants and will desperately lose if left to their own devices. As long as Hamas controls Gaza, a state of war exists, and cease-fires do nothing to advance peace, as this year has proven yet again. Tiresome calls for “restraint” don’t work when one side is determined to have war. The best way to resolve this conflict is to allow Hamas to have its war and get utterly crushed by Israel or overthrown by Gazans to avoid that unavoidable conclusion.
Hamas insists on a war of annihilation and won’t accept any other solution. Let them have it.
Update: Meanwhile, Fox needs a new headline writer, according to HA reader Roger B:
No mention of the 200+ rocket attacks Hamas conducted on Israel over the past week, or at least some hint in the headlines of the context of Israel’s response? Surely they can do better than that.
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Incredible knowledge of the Bible. Your posts to SaintOlaf was brilliant!
sheebe on December 29, 2008 at 12:18 AM
Saintolaf, you are a sick and very twisted person. When the time nears and it will. I will shoot at anyone that thinks I would convert to Muslim, Islam. I will not turn the other cheek. You seriously need some help. You are not a Conservative. Stop lying to yourself. Conservatives don’t think on the line that you do. You are a pathetic Liberal. Or Rhino, Right wing fruit.
sheebe on December 29, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Of course there are civilians,al-qaeda,Hezbollah,and Hamas regularly use them as human shields and propaganda tools to get idiots like Olaf to defend them against the evil US,Isreal,and anybody else that chooses to defend their country against terrorist and genocidal dictators.
The vast majority of the 98,000 people killed in the Iraq war were victims of al-qaeda and shia militia bombings,beheadings,and mass killings used to intimidate and
strike fear so the population would summit to them.
My point is that I am tired of hearing the liberal crap about “civilians” being killed and war “costing to much money” from the appeasement crowd when they offer no solutions on how to fight war or stop an enemy for “free” and without “civilian” casualties.
The people they vote for vote,fund,and support the very wars and it’s actions that they criticize conservatives for .
If liberals/democrats are going to sit on their mountain of moral superiority with their “anti-war” theme,it would be a lot more credible if they didn’t support people that …well..you know…GO TO WAR.
If they are really “anti-war”,then pull everybody out of Iraq/Afghanistan,Korea,Japan,Germany and run on a platform
of non-violence and lets see where that gets this country.
Lets see how that is supposed to bring peace around the world.
Their Messiah Obama has already stated he will annihilate
Iran with nuclear weapons if they attack Israel.
He is keeping the troops in Iraq based on conditions on the ground (like Bush) even though he said over and over that he
was going to “end this war”.
He is moving more troops to Afghanistan.
He has advocated invading Pakistan with American troops.
DOES THIS SOUND LIKE “ANTI-WAR” TO ANYBODY WITH COMMON SENSE.
If you are going to go around acting special because you
are “non violent” and “anti-war”,you could start actually
practicing what you preach by only supporting candidates that support this and be ready to take responsibility for the consequences of countering terrorism and acts of war with appeasement.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Here was the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.
- Winston Churchill (equating Adolf Hiler’s “Mein Kampf” to the Koran in his book the “The Gathering Storm”)
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 12:32 AM
(*) Because they are irrational, and full of hatred?
(*) Because they are full of evil and enjoy killing for the sake of it?
(*) Because you are consuming scarce resources and they feel the lives of you and your children are an impediment to the attainment of their future goals?
(*) Because they do not love you or your children and do not care if they destroy your fields and harvests thus leaving you to starve?
(*) Because your sons and daughters are possible future adversaries (they might remember that one of Mohammed’s captured wives is alleged to have tried to poison him).
We are talking about the followers of the murderous lying thief of Arabia, people for whom education extends little further than memorizing passages from the one of the world’s most confused and incoheret texts and treating what little they manage to extract meaning from as divine law.
Your question presupposes that there is some reason why they might behave rationally.
That isn’t obvious at all. The point about cheeks is that being slapped on your cheek is only an insult … not an attempt to kill you. Jesus told his follows not to retaliate against insults.
How you have extrapolated to conclude that the correct response to an insult is also the correct response to a death threat?
Paul said that to disobey the governing authorities is to disobey God. If the non-Christian government that you have allowed to come to power by your acquiesence orders you to fight and kill and you disobey how have you obeyed God? Bearing in mind that God has neither forbidden war to Christians and often told his servants to make armies and fight, how do you decide to disobey one instruction and obey an another?
How do you decide that war is unacceptable? Where and when did Jesus (or any apostle) make an uniquivocal statement that war was utterly forbidden?
The reality is that when Jesus and the apostles taught they didn’t spell out every single detail. Most things we are expected to work-out for ourselves.
Can you not see any way in which failing to fight against evil is to be evil oneself?
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:39 AM
Since when is a hug,kiss,and flashing the peace sign “demonizing”.
What part of that is “sub human”.
And why is everyone liberals disagree with a “Nazi”.
Are you actually supposed to make sense or are your huffington post talking points all you got.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:39 AM
Oh we’re admitting that they are human now? Progress! However, as usual, this is over. the. top. Why must we pretend that this entire society is focused on nothing but war. When we know that is not the case. Evidence? All around you if you live in a reasonably diverse part of the U.S. or any international city. Muslims from these countries are everywhere doing all kinds of things that isn’t being a part of Hamas and Al-Qaeda. And while Hamas might live near families those families are still civillians. Now you can say you hate all Muslims, so you don’t care about their deaths. But SAY THAT, stop hiding behind this bull notion that the existence of children in Hamas is a military strategy. It’s a fact of life. I don’t know how the ends justifying the means became a moral position, however that seems to be the case when Isreal is concerned. How odd.
Congratulations you demonstrated that people who opposed Hitler could also be racist towards other groups they didn’t like. Knock me over with a feather. Next you’ll tell me that many Americans who fought against the Nazis also fought to maintain Jim Crow in the South. Not sure what you’ve proven with this quote other than another lame attempt to explain away that Zionists engage in the same demonizing of Muslims that condemned Jews to death in Germany. It’s so nice when people learn lessons from their oppression rather than just transplanting that onto others.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:41 AM
The Nazis demonized Jews as sub-human. Radical Islamists demonize Jews as sub-human. Zionists/Neo Cons demonize Muslims as sub-human. War continues. No one learns anything. YAY Never ending cycle of violence!
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:43 AM
Friends and Enemies
Hey–aren’t Iraq and Afghanistan, after all that American blood and billions spent “democratizing” them, supposed to be allies in the “war on terror”? And isn’t Hamas a terror organization? So, wouldn’t that make Iraq and Afghanistan opponents of the Hamas jihad on Israel? (Insert hysterical peals of laughter here.)
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 12:45 AM
You mean people in countries we forcibly invaded and occupied don’t like us? I keep learning the most incredibly hard to understand things this evening. Continue to shock me with these previously undiscovered insights into human nature.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:46 AM
Reading the various opinions expressed on this thread convinces me that we’re doomed. I hope that the nation that replaces the US as the arbiter of world affairs after our demise has enough self-confidence to know wrong when it sees it, and enough determination to do what it takes to make things right.
Seriously, what a sissy whine-fest America has become.
Venusian Visitor on December 29, 2008 at 12:50 AM
The irony of this line closing that post is a little too much to take. I think the parts of my brain that recognize a pot calling a kettle black have overloaded and exploded. Intense.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:53 AM
And liberals demonize conservatives as bible thumping,idiot,
war mongers.
join the cycle.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Personally I don’t feel any guilt whatsoever about what happened to Jews in WW2.
To the extent that I support Israel at all it is because I see them as a morally better nation than those nations that oppose them. I want Israel to prevail because I do not want Islam to prevail. Israel might be less than perfect but Islam is the bottom of the pit.
If Israel loses, Islam will gain ground and millions more people will be forced under its oppressive shroud.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 12:53 AM
The old, worn out, discredited, last resort and usually rabid anti-semetic “moral equivalency” argument. Pathetic.
I don’t know of a single example where a country has shown more restraint than Israel. A restraint that would never be shown by muslims if they had the military upper hand. In fact quite the opposite.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 12:54 AM
Go back to posting, Nancy, I’m through for awhile.
Venusian Visitor on December 29, 2008 at 12:55 AM
I have demonstrated nothing of the kind. Islam is not even a race.
As you don’t even know what a race is it would appear that you got knocked over by a lot more than just a feather. So sad.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 12:58 AM
Because Germany,Italy,and Japan were just jumping for joy and giving the Americans,British,and Russians parades after WWII right.
Oh that’s right,after many years they have become allies and trade partners.Funny how that works.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:58 AM
The Koran tells them so. It has for hundreds of years.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 1:00 AM
I would, except I don’t recall the last time liberals launched a massively deadly and destructive military attack against conservatives. There actually IS a difference between calling someone an idiot and firing a rocket into a civilian neighborhood something ALL of the groups in my post have done in the last year. Do try again though.
I’m not sure how it’s showing restraint when your country was started with a military occupation. And where there has been nothing but constant back an forth warfare since that moment. But I knew I would be called anti-semitic for suggesting Isreal contributed to the never ending cycle of violence. I suppose you’re one of those people who sees no sin in Isreal’s origins and think it’s totally fine that a group of people who weren’t Germans were forced to pay for the sins of Germany. And yes I know, they weren’t a nation. But they were humans and they had land and homes. And most importantly? They didn’t strike the first blow.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:00 AM
The Koran tells people to dislike countries that invade and occupy them. Uh yeah…or maybe that’s just what humans tend to do. You’re so KKK-ish, it’s creepy man.
OMG you’re so right! How silly of me. Iraqis, victims of a preemptive strike justified by a lie would totally have the same mindset about occupation as Japan (who attacked us) and Germany (who attacked the world) and Italy (which attacked its citizens). And you’re also right. The post WWII situation was exactly the same as it was today. We’ve subsidized Afghanistan’s reconstruction and competently created an economy that’s not reliant on drug profits and warlords…wait we totally DIDN’T do that.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Providing the Zionist nonbelievers with support against Muslims, whether they are Hamas who fight for the sake of Allah or ordinary Palestinians, is forbidden by Islamic law. It is a major act of disbelief and he who commits this is considered a dissident of Islam, because it falls within the framework of supporting disbelievers over Muslims.
The great dream of Islam will come true. Muslims and good friends like dear DeathToMediaHacks dream to see flags that read: “There is no god but Allah” fluttering in the wind on the Temple Mount and Haram al-Sharif, Allah willing.
Aleph on December 29, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Hey genius,I know you are really impressed with yourself and probably have bruises from patting yourself on the back so much,but “liberals” have voted and advocated many wars including the Iraq/Afghanistan war where….hold..on…and..
listen …real …close,
MISSILES WERE LAUNCHED INTO CIVILIAN AREAS.
IDIOT.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 1:08 AM
Are you for real?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:08 AM
You are so vacuous and projecting when you get desperate, it’s creepy man, damn creepy.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 1:09 AM
First of all, I love this. The goal is always to find a way to implicate “liberals” in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in order to not have to debate an issue but to say “see they are the same as us.” Indeed you and I agree, the war mongering Democrats have proven over and over again they are not progressives but Neo-con hawks as much as the GOP are. Just because a person with a (d) next to their name supports a war doesn’t mean it’s a liberal/progressive cause. And I might add you are the one who equated throwing an insult with making war, not me. And yes I AM proud of my response to you, I thought it to be pretty clever.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:12 AM
It is restraint simply because they could do so much worse. Regardless of whether the Israelis are in the right or wrong, the fact is they could have turned the gaza strip into dust and ashes a long time ago and they have refrained from doing so.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Well you did it. You gradually stripped away any semblance of debate and went for the pure insult. I like a jab as much as the next bloke, but notice I always pair it with some argument/response. You don’t seem capable of doing the same.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:13 AM
By your logic the U.S. should be rewarded for our “restraint” for not using nukes to destroy every other nation on earth, robbing them of their natural resources and destroying the world in World War III. Call me a “moonbat” but I think not killing lots of people isn’t reason to pat someone on the back.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Yes my brother.
Aleph on December 29, 2008 at 1:20 AM
Sorry, not taking the bait. I’m not Muslim. Play on playa.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Say good night, Gracie. Your shtick is getting tiresomely old.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 1:23 AM
God you are like a 5 year old child.
If you are going to “act” like you know what you are talking
about,at least get your facts straight.
Every investigation including 2008 chaired by a majority of democrats found that the Bush administration did not lie.
If you want to defend the rights of a genocidal terrorist dictator like Saddam,go ahead,just don’t expect any credibility when discussing rights of “civilians”.
You think that people who are “occupied” sit around thinking about whether it is “justified” or not.A little
reality and probably some history courses could help you not come off as such an idiot.
War is not a movie.Your liberal friends don’t get to make some happy easy ending.
The reality is that after decades of oppression,and teachings of how “evil” the west is do not lend themselves to quick turnarounds in relations.
Maybe you could actually research what is happening in Iraq
instead of getting your super smart information on the Olberman network:
Taking the Field
A roundup of the past two weeks’ good news from Iraq.
By ARTHUR CHRENKOFF
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122822954104172435.html?mod=#
Schools,Hospitals,Business’s opening.
more than 20,000 teachers hired on and 5 million children going to school that never went before.
Infrastructure contracts,energy contracts,starting trade agreements with it’s neighbors.
yea genius,that Freedom thing is just terrible.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Points for dismissive style, but light on substance. How Obama of you MB4
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Did you not read the Federal report on Iraqs Reconstruction? We returned Iraq to pre-invasion levels. Nothing more. Oh and yes lots of infrastructure contracts, how many completed NEW (not rebuilt) infrastructure projects? I’m off to bed, please don’t spend all night looking for examples of the NEW infrastructure we built…you won’t find it.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:28 AM
If you are not a Muslim you must convert. You are safe for now though as you are such a good friend to Hamas. I will protect you. Just tell them you are under Aleph’s protection if they come to get you. If they don’t believe you just say these words – أنا أكره اليهود and you will be spared, Allah willing.
Aleph on December 29, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Israel has been our friend, and until quite recently, the only democracy in the Middle East. It is a good thing to support democracies! Also, Americans have always loved the underdog; it comes from being one up against the mighty British Empire around 1776. So, you have a few million of Jews, having had to deal with the Nazis, now getting a sliver of the land God promised to Abraham a few thousand years back, having to deal with very hostile neighbors. Israel makes Rode Island look like Alaska!! Here in the USA, those first 10 amendments to our Constitution really run deep in the American soul; look at all the arguing we do over them. That freedom of religion one really runs deep. Yeah, there are your anti-Semites here and there, but the vast majority of Christians really like their Jewish neighbors. After all, Jesus was a Jew his whole life and Christianity is, to Christians, a logical extension of Judism and the promise God made to Abraham is just as valid for Christians as for Jews. So do the vast majority of non Christians as well; Jewish immigrants have for the most part earned the American Dream through hard work and live it and enjoy it.
Now you have Hamas and Hezz-bollah-C*^p………..
Bubba Redneck on December 29, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Never use a hammer when a fly swatter will do.
Murphy9 on December 29, 2008 at 1:32 AM
It is when they want you dead by any means possible.
Bubba Redneck on December 29, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Curiouser and curiouser.
In DeathToMediaHack’s world everything is Hamas propaganda. Nothing is what it is because everything is what it isn’t. And contrary-wise; what it is, it isn’t, and what it isn’t, it is. You see?
Cheshire Cat on December 29, 2008 at 1:41 AM
Clever is the last word you need to use in spinning your support for liberals who engage in the same policies that you whine about being so ignorant.
I don’t have to “find” a way to implicate liberals with actions and policies that are on the record and are fact.
The truth is that your elected liberals on the hill lead people like you around like sheep:
Congressman admits Democrats “stretched the facts,” misled anti-war supporters about supposed plans for ending War
Submitted by Jeff Emanuel on Thu, 05/22/2008 – 8:18pm.
http://jeffemanuel.net/paul-kanjorski-pa-11-admits-democrats-lied-about-being-able-to-end-war-in-iraq
And your hero Obama has done the same thing.
ohhhhh he is going to end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home.
reality: “Will bring the troops home based on conditions on the ground” (like Bush).
OHHHHHHHH Bush is spying on us,trampling the constitution with the NSA wiretapping program.
Reality: Obama votes for it and gives the telecoms immunity.
liberals say”it’s okay now,hears my vote”.
OHHHHHH Bush and the neo-cons illegally occupied Iraq and are committing war crimes.
Reality:Obama keeps Gates and many Bush appointees on foreign policy.
OHHHHHH Bush’s tax cuts for the rich are ruining this nation.
Reality:Brought in record money to the federal and Obama announces”I think it’s a bad idea to do away with the tax cuts right now”.
I don’t have to implicate liberals at all,they do a fine job of that themselves.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 1:41 AM
I presented you with dozens of examples of progress in Iraq
and this is all you got.
How pathetic.
I would call Hospitals and Schools being built infrastructure but I guess health care and education don’t mean to much to liberals if they can’t use them for political points.
Instead of going to bed,you need to go to a dam# library and educate yourself on the history of the challenges and benefits of a country that has gained Freedom.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Just a couple of examples out of so many, for brevity’s sake, with regard to Iraq from the demorat nominess of 2000 and 2004.
Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real.
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
It’s very clear that war mongering democrats were goading Bush into invading Iraq.
And now I must retire to work on some targeting coordinates for the Gaza strip.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 1:56 AM
1. A few months back Joseph Farah at World Net Daily wrote a great synopsis concerning the history of this conflict. It’s a good, quick read.
2.
Wouldn’t you then find find it ironic that Jesus said to the crowd of the centurion, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.”? (Matthew 8:10) Also, God hates evil and those who are evil. (Psalm 11:5) Yes, God is love, but He is love because He hates evil. In fact, read Revelation 18:20 and 19:11-21 for more on that. Now, I ask you, how would I be loving my wife and children if I stood idly by while someone raped and killed them? 1 Corinthians 13:7 says that love “protects”.
“Jesus commanded Peter, ‘Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?’” John 18:11
He did not tell Peter to drop his sword. He told him to put it back in its proper place, which is to say, back in its sheath. Also, I ask, what was in the cup? The wrath of God. What was Jesus here to do? Hebrews 8:12 says, “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” But, according to Proverbs 17:15, “Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the Lord detests them both.” So how could God the Father, who is love, do this? Because Jesus became sin (Isaiah 53:12). God is love because He hates evil. Otherwise, Jesus would not be “the propitiation for our sins”. (1 John 4:10) If one claims to love, he must hate evil, just as God does. (Romans 12:9)
Now, with your worldview, how do you reconcile the following conversation between Jesus and the disciples: “Then Jesus asked them, ‘When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?’ ‘Nothing,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.’ The disciples said, ‘See, Lord, here are two swords.’ ‘That is enough,’ he replied.” Luke 22:35-38
Why would Jesus tell the disciples to go get swords?
Lastly, consider also 1 Timothy 5:8, Exodus 22:2, Proverbs 25:26, and Nehemiah 4:14. Neh. 4:14 states: “After I looked things over, I stood up and said to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people, “Don’t be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your homes.”
Send_Me on December 29, 2008 at 2:11 AM
Here is some more examples of how horrible the imperialistic
Americans are oppressing the Iraqis:
Baghdad hosts first public beauty pageant since Saddam’s fall
A country club in Baghdad has staged the Iraqi capital’s first public beauty contest since the downfall of Saddam Hussein.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3536194/Baghdad-hosts-first-public-beauty-pageant-since-Saddams-fall.html
The great part about this is the winners are not carted off to Saddam’s sons to be tortured and raped.
400 000 Visitors for Zawra’ Park
Baghdad, 06 May 2008 (Al-Sabaah)
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/30691
Zain Iraq and Nokia Siemens Networks sign a $150m network modernization contract
12 May 2008 (AME Info FZ LLC)
‘Disneyland’ comes to Baghdad with multi-million pound entertainment park
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3802051.ece-<
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Your wisdom knows no bounds.
Very clear indeed.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 2:14 AM
There you go again (Ronald Reagan) with your rather extreme projecting and after calling me a KKK’er no less. Don’t you even remember any of what you write? Not even that? You don’t seem to. So sad.
Doubtfull.
I hadn’t really noticed any of that. Well I did notice the response part if you want to call it that.
There you go again (Ronald Reagan) and btw, it just seems that way to your dull perceptions. You must try to do better in the future.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 2:44 AM
Oh, another btw DeathToMediaHacks, how anyone could be so lacking in basic logic as to take a simple statement like “The Koran tells them so. It has for hundreds of years” and get to “You’re so KKK-ish, it’s creepy man” is truly astonishing. Maybe you are a work-in-progress? If so you have got an awful lot of work to do.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 2:57 AM
The problem with both SendMe’s and Right4Life’s faulty interpretation is that you are taking a verse way out of context without understanding the power of God and placing a false interpretation on it, that contradicts the vast majority of other verses related to the subject..(I’m speaking about Luke 22:35-38).
NEVER does Christ preach that His believers should practice violence…NEVER.
HE ALWAYS preached the EXACT OPPOSITE.
The “sword you are referring to is the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT!!
He is referring to the Living Word of God in the battle against sin!
When He is talking about giving up one’s garment and buying a sword He is also referring to surrendering the body to the sword of martyrdom!
Because the disciples were thinking of swords literally Christ ends the discussion abruptly saying “it is enough” or better translated from the Greek “ENOUGH OF THIS”!
Do you see what you’ve done?
You’ve taken one verse way out of context without understanding and it contradicts EVERYTHING ELSE Christ has said about this subject and it is leading you to sin!
Any Bible scholar will tell you this verse does not refer to an actual sword and that it would contradict everything else He has said. That’s what happens when you pick and choose verses and quote them out of context.
I don’t know if it is just a demonic hatred of muslims that you harbor or if it is just your shallow and materialistic fear of martyrdom that lead you to so blatantly butcher the Holy Scriptures but it is a serious and dangerous error.
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 3:00 AM
OK, SaintOlaf is back on duty now, so I can go back to calculating gaza strip targeting coordinates. See what you did now, SaintOlaf.
MB4 on December 29, 2008 at 3:03 AM
Ha Ha looks like you’ve got a friend.
kanda on December 29, 2008 at 5:49 AM
I don’t see hatred for the Muslim people in the comments here, only a hatred for the demonic religion of Islam and it’s blood thirsty god allah.
labrat on December 29, 2008 at 6:06 AM
ooooohh kkaaaayyy…nothing wrong with that.
Itchee Dryback on December 29, 2008 at 6:47 AM
UK not bombing the Republic after various IRA attacks.
No group, Christian, Muslim, or Jew, has a monopoly on massacres or on restraint. Not even in the post war Arab-Israeli wars.
Israel has every right to respond militarily to the rocket attacks and Hamas’s abandonment of the truce. They are sick and tired of rockets… pure and simple. The issue is not so much what happens between Gaza and Israel. Israel will pound the shit out of Gaza… let off steam… send a few hundred militants off into martyrdom. The rockets will continue just as they did when Israel controlled Gaza. The problem is that while this conflict boils away many dozens of civilians are killed and it fuels other regional conflicts and generally fuels terrorism.
Hamas’s brinkmanship with Israel has indeed backfired but I hope the Israeli response does not backfire on them. The response should but targeted and measured to reduce the rockets rather than help recruitment and encourage sympathy for Hamas. Hopefully Hamas will realize that they were better off with the ceasefire in place and will end the attacks.
lexhamfox on December 29, 2008 at 7:37 AM
Although, in fairness, cross border raids and kidnappings of suspected IRA terrorists were carried out by the SAS–but, they were kept at a low enough level so that the most that would happen would be that Dublin would send Whitehall an angry note or two.
Matt Helm on December 29, 2008 at 7:48 AM
I can’t believe you are actually advocating that our entire society kneel before Islam and/or just let the Islamic scum kill us. You are one seriously disturbed individual. You should seek treatment right away. WOW!
jwp1964 on December 29, 2008 at 8:00 AM
Matt Helm on December 29, 2008 at 7:48 AM
No… they let the Garda do that when they had something. Even the ’shoot to kill’ policy was used sparingly.
lexhamfox on December 29, 2008 at 8:11 AM
I would disagree somewhat here. While the Garda did most of the policing of the IRA in the Republic, limited and small scale cross border incursions did take place.
Matt Helm on December 29, 2008 at 8:28 AM
because they’re muslim…and this is part of a 1,400 year old war between islam and all that is not islam.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 8:39 AM
how’d we do it against 3 (italy germany japan) in WWII??
because we’re not muslim… they were dancing in the streeets on 9/11 thrilled as hell we were dead. get a clue.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM
thank you gracious lady!
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM
The US has never had any reason / incentive to do what you suggest and would have lost far more than it might have gained by doing so. Israel on the other-hand has had plenty of reason to be much more aggressive with Hamas and could conceivably have gained by doing so.
So, perhaps I should have made it clearer that not only could Israel have done much worse but also that their interests (from their perspective) would likely have been served by doing so. Hence it is valid to say that they appear to have shown restraint.
I don’t think anybody is patting anybody on the back. Originally MB4 was remarking simply that they had shown more restraint than anyone else he/she could think of. That remark was merely an observation and didn’t include praise or condemnation or in anyway evaluate the merits or demerits of their actions.
However, since what MB4 and I perceived to be considerable restraint has obviously not impressed you, how do you think that Israel should have responded to the steady flow of missiles from Gaza during what was supposed to be a cease-fire?
Half the world would really like a solution to this conflict, but a solution … not just a postponment.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
you cannot BUY the ’sword of the spirit’ and this was before the Holy Spirit was sent.
now you’re twisting the scripture to meet your views.
yeah right sure…ok then tell me when Paul delivered those men over to Satan, one for the destruction of his flesh, the other 2 so that they would be taught not to blaspheme…do you think Paul was sinning?? come on.
do you think Cornelius was sinning by remaining in the Legions?
keep dreaming.
you are the one twisting scripture my friend. if you want to be a martyr so bad..go to saudi Arabia, or Iran, or gaza, and get on the street and start preaching the gospel.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 8:54 AM
and if other christians thought you like you over the centuries…Islam would rule the world, and christianity would be either extinct, or neglible…
thank God for Charles Martel!!! and the crusaders, The Knights of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem and all those who fought for centruries against the plague of islam…
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 9:01 AM
SaintOlaf, in the years prior to Jesus birth, the Israelites frequently went into battle with the blessing of God. They were also commanded to slaughter the evil pagan tribes and got into trouble with God for not doing it properly.
God expects nations to impose justice, and to use the the death penalty as they see fit. This expectation was stated both before and after Jesus death. Thus killing for the sake of justice is clearly permissable and justice means making a right judgement between good and evil.
Your argument seems basically to be that as soon as we are confronted with violent evil we should yield immediately.
Such conduct goes against the grain of most of scripture, it makes the formation of a stable society impossible, it contradicts basic reasoning concerning love and justice.
If God wanted to make such a huge change he would need to provide some clear, easily understood injunction, but none exists.
This remark is so-far out of court that I am beginning to think you are playing a wind-up game with us all, and if that is the case then well done, you have won convincingly!
But if you are serious …
Buying is not giving, nor surrendering.
If Jesus wanted his disciples to die rather than fight this would be a rather ambiguous and easily misunderstood way to express it don’t you think? If pacifism is as important as you claim it to be this was certainly a terrible way to teach that to the disciples and those who would follow them, as evidenced by the fact that we have all apparently misunderstood. Not just us but also many other otherwise great men of God in the past two millenia.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 9:09 AM
So, you’re saying that it should read this way:
“Then Jesus asked them, ‘When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?’ ‘Nothing,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a
swordsword of the spirit, sell your cloak and buyonea sword of the spirit. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.’ The disciples said, ‘See, Lord, here are twoswordsswords of the spirit.’ ‘That is enoughEnough of this!’ he replied.” If that were the case, then why does Luke use the Greek word “machaira”, which means a literal sword, without the word “pneuma”, which means “of the Spirit”?Also, you did not answer any of the other texts I posted. Are you saying that it would be an act of love to sit idly by while someone raped and murdered your wife and children? As I mentioned, this is not what Scripture teaches. Also, why did Jesus tell Peter to put his sword back into its sheath rather than asking him why he had it in the first place and ordering him to get rid of it?
I hate what they believe, since it is diametrically opposed to Truth. They are my enemies, both spiritually and physically, but I’m still doing what I can to love them (praying for them, sharing Truth with them, etc.). In the end though, my love for my enemies does not supercede my love and responsibility for my family. Also, are you saying that God’s hatred of the sinner is unrighteous? (Psalm 11:5)
If I feared death, I wouldn’t be in the Army fighting these people.
According to Scripture, I know that as a man, a husband, and a father I’m called to be the priest, prophet, provider, and protector of my family (Ephesians 5). You haven’t yet convinced me to delete “protector” from this list.
Send_Me on December 29, 2008 at 9:24 AM
St Olaf,
Why did Christ’s apostles carry swords? When they came to arrest him in the garden, one of his apostles drew a sword and cut off the ear of one of the Roman soldiers. Why did Christ not insist that they disarm long before this if he were a pacifict as you say?
sabbott on December 29, 2008 at 9:25 AM
My understanding is slightly different. I understand SaintOlaf to be saying something more like this:
“Then Jesus asked them, ‘When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?’ ‘Nothing,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you
don’t have a sword of the spirithave not yet been killed by the opposition,sell your cloak and buy one a sword of the spiritsurrender your body to your opponents sword.Which, in my view, makes what your interpretation seem positively reasonable by comparison.
YiZhangZhe on December 29, 2008 at 9:37 AM
It’s too bad the non-stop missile attacks never got a fraction of the attention given the response.
drjohn on December 29, 2008 at 11:24 AM
On the point of Israel and Gaza, I would like the critics to answer one simple question:
What exactly is Israel s’posed to do you morons?
Option 1 – Continue to get pummeled by rockets?
Option 2 – Engage in some ineffectual diplomacy?
Option 3 – Show Hamas to be a paper tiger
The fact is that any measures that Israel takes to defend itself will be met with irrational criticism. The only way for Israel to avoid criticism is to disarm and surrender to its seething, hostile neighbors. Then, it would achieve the cherished victim status. And, how has that worked out for the denizens of Darfur? Or Tibet? International victim status is over-rated!
Finally, I would listen more to Israel’s critics if I heard proportional criticism of Russia, China, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, etc. I would also listen more to the leaders of the Arab world if they actually had provided for the Palestinian refugees or provided any semblance of liberty at home.
johnboy on December 29, 2008 at 11:26 AM
I guess SaintOlaf has never heard of the Armenian holocaust.
pseudonominus on December 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM
You forgot option 4, Isreal should live up to the terms of the cease fire agreements, but they didn’t and they don’t. They said they would open Gaza’s borders and allow food/aid to enter Hamas controlled territory..they didn’t. If they wanted a cease fire why did they agree to terms they weren’t willing to adhere to?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 11:44 AM
guess you didn’t hear that HAMAS didn’t want the cease-fire to continue??
you should listen to something besides al-jazerra….
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Can you put some news sources on the table. Even ABC is reporting that Isreal did not live up to the terms of the cease fire agreement. So that would make sense that Hamas didn’t want to continue a cease fire where the other side was not living up to their side of the agreement. Frankly though? I don’t have any interest in engaging you. You’ve demonstrated you think we’re in a multi generational war with the religion of Islam. I just can’t waste a single moment of energy on debating someone with such a warped view of the world.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 11:51 AM
you’re an idiot to think we’re not. try history 101.
anti-semitic wacko.
hopefully you’ll get the choice between allah and the dull knife…
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM
It’s anti-semitic to say that we’re not in a multi-generational war with the religion of Islam? Uh….explain?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 11:59 AM
I’ve never heard you complain about the missiles striking the Israelis….or express concern about Isralis being killed or kidnapped…maybe I just missed it…
people like you only seem to complain about Israel….never the ‘palestinians’
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:02 PM
and why should the gaza strip be concerned about an israeli blockade? why should they have to rely upon the israelis at all?? and why should israel be forced to trade with people that are trying to kill them?
did hamas ever stop sending rockets over?? no.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Then you don’t read very closely. I have talked about the never ending cycle of violence, to which Hamas and Isreal both contribute. What exactly is your goal. Would you be fine with a nuclear attack that killed all Islamic people? When you say you are at war with an entire religion you ultimately are saying you advocate genocide. Considering your screen name is “right4life” I find your opinion wierd.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:09 PM
I will amicably disagree with you on that. It would be a huge deal if British troops set foot in the Republic. I worked with the government during the Major years and heard none of that. Having said that I know there were MI operations using civilians… not the SAS. In any case… nothing like air raids or shelling. Even the targeted killings took place on UK territory.
lexhamfox on December 29, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Courtesy of Joseph Farah:
Send_Me on December 29, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I could well be mistaking MI ops for SAS here–of course SAS personnel could well have been seconded to MI for the operations, working in mufti. But in any event, they were very much low key–neither Dublin nor Whitehall really wanted to antagonize the other.
Matt Helm on December 29, 2008 at 12:23 PM
first off, the ‘never ending cycle of violence’ was started by the arabs in 1948 who couldn’t stand to have a piece of islamic territory taken away from them. the ‘palestinians’ are a contrivance…they’re arabs, and the rest of the arabs use them to attack the jews.
this moral equivocation is the same thing liberals used to do with the soviet union and the US. it was BS then and its BS now.
Islam already has their fate spelled out for them…what wes should do is become energy independent, to lessen their economic clout, and we should eliminate immigration from muslim lands, and europe especially will have to kick out muslims from among them, as spain did long ago, if they wish to be continue to be free. and we should continue to hunt down and kill their more radical elements.
islam is not a race its a religion. I’m sure you’d be ok with us treating them like they treat us…when we take over their country, like iraq…ban islam, destroy their mosques…it worked wonders for islam, why shouldn’t we do the same??? make muslims second class citizens..dhimmis.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I’m sorry but….how can you type that with a straight face. I’m sure you would just “get over it” if a foreign power came in and just decided that Rhode Island would be a French colony. Unless you can explain to me why “Arabs” were made to pay for Germany’s holocaust we can’t go anywhere. “Taken away from them” It wasn’t anyone elses to take was it? Did people live there. Did they have homes and communities? The answer is yes. Morally it is indefensible.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
apparently you are not familiar with the history of that area…that area was ruled by the ottomon turks for hundreds of years…they lost WWI and the empire disolved…that is where we get the modern arab states…most of them were part of that empire. the british redrew the map.
so to say it was a ‘palestinian’ state is a lie.
the land itself was pretty barren, as Mark Twain attested to in the 1800s…it was not until the jews started to return to the land, that anyone, other than wandering bedouins, were there. Once the jews came, the arabs followed them into what is now israel.
and unlike jews in arab lands…many arabs still live in Israel, as they did before the state was founded…those that left…encouraged by surrounding arab states…are now ‘palestinians’…but given their arab ‘brothers’ have huge amounts of land, couldn’t they share some with them???
remember that Jordon ruled the ‘west bank’ before 1967…and they never offered the ‘palestinians’ a state…
and what about all the jews that lived there before 1948? were they supposed to be enslaved under an arab muslim government? I think people like you would be fine with that…
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:43 PM
When He is talking about giving up one’s garment and buying a sword He is also referring to surrendering the body to the sword of martyrdom!
SainOlaf
LOL!
You have just proven your total lack of knowledge regarding the Holy Scriptures..
That quote is from St. Ambrose.
St. Ambrose was a great saint who performed miraculous healings,was in a state of Theosis and even raised the dead!
St. Ambrose you may remember saved the Church from heresy(what you believe is directly related to his efforts and interpretations.
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Oh and St Ambrose lived in the 300’s A.D. BTW
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM
st. ambrose did not write holy scriptures.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:59 PM
I can agree with most of that except the immigration part…why can’t we allow Christian arabs to come here seeking asylum? There are tons of Christian arabs…don’t fool yourself and believe the zionist propaganda.
Here is one thing I hope you will understand Right4Life…Zionists HATE Christians.
Any one who denies Christ is of the anti-Christ spirit.
They persecute Christians to this day.. why can’t you understand that?
Most of the stuff you are claiming is straight up zionist propaganda(i.e. all muslims want to kill all Christians etc….it’s just not true man!)
Besides my main point that I am arguing is that violence and worldly power and goals are NEVER acceptable according to Christianity.
These false interpretations you are claiming regarding a militiant worldly Christianity is not of Christ.
It is mohammed you are thinking of that preaches that.
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 1:00 PM
I didn’t say it was a state. I said there were people living there. Who had homes and communities. That is all that’s necessary for it to count as “stealing” land and for it to be a morally indefensible position.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 1:03 PM
SendMe: you also butchered the other Scriptures you quoted out of context..The quote from Paul’s epistle was about providing food for the family and could not possibly be streched to include committing murder to “defend” one’s body.
I’m sorry bro but your form of Christianity is not the correct form you just made it up now.
Your form is too worldy and materialistic.
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 1:03 PM
the jews didn’t ’steal’ the land…they were the ones living there...along with a few arabs…and arabs still live there.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 1:12 PM
according to you everything is OK for christians living under arab lands…so why should they need to come here? obviously they do have to come here to avoid being killed if they converted from islam.
really? point me to a zionists 9/11…
clearly Islam is the greatest enemy of Christianity, and has been for 1,400 years…
I don’t think I said exactly that…post it…but the war of islam against all that is not islam is 1,400 years old now…hasn’t it taught you anything? how about the armenian genocide by the MUSLIMS…and thats not the only one…all those lands the muslims STOLE were christian.
I know, and you are totally wrong. you misread scripture, take it out of context, and read meaning into that it never had.
you cannot answer even my most basic question..here it is again….
the first gentile convert was Cornelius…a ROMAN CENTURION…they were not known as ‘gentle’ guys…he was not asked to quit the ROMAN LEGIONS…and they were not boy scouts…so if what you say is true…why didn’t the Holy Spirit, through Peter, ask him to leave the Legions???
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 1:18 PM
How do you know he didn’t?
Besides that is a straw man argument and you know it.
SaintOlaf on December 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM
uh yeah right…the Holy Spirit just ‘forgot’ to include that with scripture…please…you’ve just proven that what scripture says does not matter…nor its context…all you care about is twisting it to make scripture align with your doctrines.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 1:36 PM
and its obviously not a straw man. you said that christians have to be totally pacifistic..no military service…and that is a lie.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Wow! just bring up a little religion here and WE go to war with each other.
Fortunatly, this is only words, real people are getting killed in the attacks and the retribution. It appears the end of the world isn’t coming any time soon as there will be a peace in the middle east right before that happens.
Hamas needs to be eliminated as a terrorist organization.period.
Isreal will continue to bomb them until the pressure on Hamas is too great, and they will have to ” abdicate the throne” so to speak, and more power to them. Hamas has brought this upon themselves and the people they govern, and both will suffer the consequences. It is more important than ever for the people of Gaza to take control of their own destiny, instead of a bunch of armed thugs promoting Islamic jihid.
UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on December 29, 2008 at 1:57 PM
“SaintOlaf”, you need to read this article. You can keep following the liberal media and the PBS story line, or you can really pay attention. The fact is that the Arab resistance to Israel is led by people trained by people who trained with Hitler.
It is Jewish land by ancestry. Israel has shown great restraint. Hamas shoots their rockets at civilians, and MAY hit military. Hamas intentionally interweaves their military structure with civilian areas, using them as sheilds. Yet, out of 351 killed as of this morning, only 55 of them were civilian according to the biased UN. Wow. It would be like shooting at 7 people wearing bulletproof vests, and hitting six of them in the head, one in the vest. Very precise, good intelligence on which house is military and which is civilian.
The Israelis have to stop attacks targeted at civilians, and they are doing a great job hitting military 6 out of 7 deaths.
Even on the MSM Good Morning America, they managed to point out that a Hamas missle fired today killed one and injured 7. Who did it kill? An Israeli MUSLIM arab. Plenty of Arabs live in peace WITHIN ISRAEL. Israel may have made some mistakes, but they have always embraced true peace with Arabs in and out of their country. Don’t blow up weddings and fire missiles into civilian areas, you can live and work there. Millions of arabs do.
Liberals love to blame the victims, when the victim is a restrained, stronger side.
PastorJon on December 29, 2008 at 2:26 PM
SO, you are confusing personal instructions with countries. Jesus is referring to our personal relationships, not the right of countries to defend themselves. Do you really believe that when Christ came the promises of God to the Jews ended? Does God no longer protect them? Or do you choose to ignore this Jesus:
If Hitler had come to my door, thirsty and hungry, I would have given him drink and food and held him at gunpoint until the MPs got there. If somebody insults me, I would return a compliment to them. If somebody hit me I would offer the other cheek and block their next strike. If somebody pulls out a gun I’d put a bullet between their eyes.
Martyrs are people who are killed for refusing to renounce their faith. Many martyrs first defended their lives before being taken. They did not just stand there. Martyrdom does not equal being defenseless sheep.
Your ideology drives your theology. You would choose to ignore the entire Old Testament and the example of defense of God’s nation. By your theory if a guard at a Jewish wedding sees a bomber with a vest clearly showing he should not shoot him. Nothing Christ taught said that. He merely said don’t return evil with evil, but he never said stopping evil from being done to you was evil, especially Israel protecting itself.
PastorJon on December 29, 2008 at 2:51 PM
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